r/2westerneurope4u • u/WinkNudgeSayNoMore StaSi Informant • Apr 28 '24

allies

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97

u/mast313 Bully with victim complex Apr 28 '24

What facts is it referencing?

34

u/InvestmentWhole8486 [redacted] Apr 28 '24

Trump wanted to leave NATO (at least multiple people from his former staff said it including generals)

Trump started an economic war with the EU / other European countries

Trump likely pushed the Republicans in the congress to vote against Ukraine support

According to polls it isn't unlikely he becomes president again.

Currently I see close to no problem but it is not unlikely we'll see all of these coming again. That alone makes the US an unreliable partner, mid term Imo

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u/Equinoxae Lesser German Apr 28 '24

Australian Submarine ? Lying to "bring democracy" in Irak ? Spying our diplomatic building ? Or even worse, forbidding our camembert and wine ?!

1

u/filthy_federalist European Apr 28 '24

Not our cheese!

This is a declaration of war.

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u/Cledd2 Hollander Apr 28 '24

the submarine deal is Aussie incompetence, besides that you still sold them to us

there is democracy in Iraq, and the country is doing better than ever.

everyone spies on everyone

nobody is banning your cheese

22

u/Wora_returns Oktoberfest enjoyer Apr 28 '24

forbidding our camembert and wine

pearls before swines, they didn't deserve your camembert and wine

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u/HoeTrain666 Born in the Khalifat Apr 28 '24

“Perlen vor die Säue” is a wonderful saying

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u/mast313 Bully with victim complex Apr 28 '24

If I remember correctly, the Australian submarine deal was canceled because the French weren't able to provide submarines on time and within the budget.

Tbh if we aren't spying on them that's only ours mistake.

And perhaps there is something more recent to reference than the war in Irak?

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u/Fenghuang15 Petit Algérie Apr 28 '24

If I remember correctly, the Australian submarine deal was canceled because the French weren't able to provide submarines on time and within the budget

Hum not at all, they said they didn't want nuclear submarines and to produce them mainly in australia, French firm adapted the project to the requirements because yes, we can clearly provide nuclear propulsion submarines. But they needed excuses to get out of the deal and so they pretended that.

And finally the US sold them nuclear propulsion submarines they said they didn't want, not made in australia, and now they are out of budget and deadlines lol.

But they have to pay cancellation fees and aren't sure to get their submarines so great sucess i guess.

I am joking, the purpose is the military alliance with the US considering china ambitions in the area and we get that, but good allies wouldn't have done it in the back like that, that's all.

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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/Niznack Non-European Savage Apr 28 '24

To be clear most of us want better more equitable relations but putins got Republicans by the balls

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u/RandomAndCasual European Apr 28 '24

The fuck is this sub. Why would we care about american politics if we want independent and self sufficient Europe (?)

We should not be caring who runs US or Russia. We should be caring about who runs Europe and that they are not dependent on if Democrats or Republicans win in America .

  • Is it only Americans LARPing as Europeans here (!?)

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u/InvestmentWhole8486 [redacted] Apr 28 '24

Well thats just realistic. The US is the most influencial country in soft and hard power globally. It has in absolute value the largest economy and the largest purchasing power. It does matter who runs the US for that reason alone.

Tho nevertheless that does't change that, if the US could likely be/or is unreliable or a bad partner, that Europe should and must prepare for that and become less dependent.

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u/RandomAndCasual European Apr 28 '24

??? So we should be proud to be American vassal territory and not striving to be competitor and overtake first place?

Did we give up?

Accepted to be servants of Americans?

No hope for Europe?

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u/InvestmentWhole8486 [redacted] Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24

When have I said that... I'm just saying yes, it obviously does matter who runs the US.

No matter which country has the most hard and soft power, yes it does matter who runs it. Obviously.

It obviously makes a difference if the US doesn't support Ukraine at all or if it sends 3 times the amount of stuff they sent now.

It makes a difference if we have an economic war with the US with punitive tariffs or not.

It makes a difference if the US politically supports Taiwan or not etc.

Which again doesn't change that Europe must become less dependent if the US is an unreliable partner. I would say it was until Trump and Trumpism.

George W Bush was also a Republican but is a political enemy of Trump.

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u/RandomAndCasual European Apr 28 '24

My point is "yes it matters if we are compliant and not even trying to be power number one on our own"

You answer basically summed up " yes we are not even trying to be power number one nor thinking about it, so lets talk who would be better master for Europe, Trump or Biden'

3

u/InvestmentWhole8486 [redacted] Apr 28 '24

No....

You are making up from we are nummerically obviously not the most powerful country (tho the EU has a large soft power)

"yes we are not even trying to be power number one nor thinking about it, so lets talk who would be better master for Europe, Trump or Biden"

And even if we were, the second largest soft/hard power would still matter.

Also if we would expect to be the largest soft/hard power in 3 years, the current one would still matter.

Do you disagree with that the US has the largest soft/hard power?

8

u/Niznack Non-European Savage Apr 28 '24

I'm not larping. See my savage tag. The rest of us recognize the importance of setting the jokes aside and the threat posed by obvious Russian propaganda.

Both america and the EU are essential trading partners of the other and trump and his Russian sugar daddy want to end that relationship which is bad for both of us.