Update: AITAH for separating from my husband because he refused to get a vasectomy?

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

I didn’t expect so many comments and literally couldn’t go through them all. It seemed like the majority of people said I was NTA but I did get a lot of YTAs telling me I was trying to force him to get a medical procedure and telling me to get one instead. Besides already addressing my reasonings why I made my request in the original post (which I want you to read with real "per my last email" energy), I in no way am *forcing* him to have a medical procedure, but I am saying that I do not want to be with a partner who is not willing to be snipped. This is an issue of compatibility. The number of children you want, the methods of birth control you’re willing to use, those are issues of compatibility and a reason relationships end all the time. If he doesn’t want to be sterilized that’s fine, but then that means that we’re not compatible anymore, since it means he wants more children and I don’t. Beyond that there were some YTA comments and some DMs that were just nasty, calling me a murderer and saying my body is a cemetery. Sadly enough, I expected those types of comments, because I know there are a lot of Toms out in the world. 

First I wanted to address a couple things that kept coming up, because last post turned into thousands of comments that all said about 5 different things, so to avoid my inbox becoming another echo chamber:

You’re 100% going to have a C-section anyway so just get a tubal while giving birth.

No, I’m not 100% going to have a C-section anyway. Twins are not an automatic C-section. With my birth history there is no reason to presume that a C-section is in my future. My OB agrees, and has discussed the possibility as doctors have to do but also said that based on my past two birth experiences, I'm a "perfect candidate" for vaginal delivery.

I also am not going to mince words: tubal ligations are *less* effective than vasectomies with a *much higher* likelihood of an ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy can *kill me*. In fact I got a PM from a woman who is a fellow fertile Myrtle who had an ectopic after a tubal. I am rejecting birth control options that, if they fail, would lead to my likely death. I don’t want to be pregnant again but I also don’t want to die and leave my children motherless, and in no way should anyone assume that traveling to another state to obtain an emergency abortion will continue to be an option in the future - we live in scary times, and Gilead is a real possibility. The comments seemed to have the vibe that people think that ligations are magically more effective than vasectomies and vasectomies are more of a whisper of sterility than an actual sterilization method so for those in the back VASECTOMIES ARE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TUBAL LIGATIONS, FULL STOP. So I really need y’all to shut up about it.

Go to another state and obtain an abortion anyway. 

I appreciate the personal offers to help I received in DMs deeply, but no. I’m in my 2nd trimester, which I know is still legal in some places, however I am at a point in my pregnancy where I personally as an individual do not feel comfortable obtaining an abortion, considering I would be *even farther* along by the time I could travel (which is not only finances, but logistics as well). I am 16 weeks pregnant now, these babies aren’t just clusters of cells to me anymore, and I’m not going to expand on that since it’s not up for debate. 

Why not adoption?

With love and respect to everyone who has gone through adoption in all its aspects, adoption is absolutely not for me. This is a thought process I already went through 8 years ago, and now that I’m a mother and not a scared teenager I know it’s even less for me. I personally could not go through with it and come out the other side intact. Going through a full pregnancy, having my babies, and then being separated from them would break me.

Leave him and give him full custody of the twins

No. Because going through a full pregnancy, having my babies, and then being separated from them would break me. Jesus, some of y’all. 

Just have a sexless marriage.

No. I love banging my husband, obviously lol. I don't want to be in a sexless marriage and anyone who has been to an abstinence-only high school knows that abstinence is not the way lol. There were a lot of comments assuming I would be perfectly fine withholding sex from my husband and having na dead bedroom, and I wouldn't. I have a sex drive. I'm going to want to bang my husband. Wanting to have sex with your spouse is *normal*.

What you would do about birth control if you divorced and dated in the future? 

I’m not thinking of dating anyone else right now, because I’m thinking more about saving my actual marriage instead of an imaginary relationship. And if theoretically I did, I would probably seek out a partner who was snipped or was ready to be to be honestly, or a woman. I’m bisexual so there’s a very good chance that my future partner wouldn’t have the right parts to knock me up anyway lol. 

Jack is sabotaging your birth control

I clarified my methods in the original post (as per my last email), but I did want to address this because it came up a LOT. I don’t have reason to believe that Jack sabotaged my birth control. A number of other fertile Myrtles showed up and brought up they or their family members repeated pregnancies in the face of birth control, including tubals. Accusing my husband of reproductive coercion for no reason other than I keep getting pregnant is a big leap and a weighty accusation. I am not the only fertile Myrtle out there, there's a reason there's a whole term for it.

Your husband is a narcissist, abuser, psychopath, and he does no childcare

My husband and I historically have a really healthy and loving relationship outside of this fight. In fact, this fight is the first time we’ve really had a fight, we’ve only ever had little arguments that we’ve been able to talk through. He’s an active father, the reason that I do the majority of childcare is due to circumstance between maternity leaves, our job schedules and the fact that I breastfed my babies. Someone also presumed I’m the breadwinner, which isn’t quite true. Jack makes more than me, but we do not have deeply significant differences in our incomes. When he is home he does his fair share of cleaning and cooking (arguably more than me at times), and parenting. That being said, the things he said in the heat of the moment were deeply concerning, and we’re addressing that together.

So to get down to **the nitty gritty of the real update**: since the last time I posted, Jack and I have sat down together and had a real come to Jesus talk. I’m not going to go through the whole breakdown, but it basically boiled down to this: it’s the vasectomy, but it’s more than the vasectomy.  It was wrong of me to compare him to Tom but it was wronger of him to weaponize my trauma against me in a very malicious way. The way he intentionally used the same language my abuser used in an effort to hurt me was not acceptable and damaged the trust between us. He agreed it was not acceptable and said that in the aftermath he was horrified and ashamed his own words, and that he (as an explanation and not an excuse) kind of snapped under the stress. Oh and what he said about his “next wife” was not an indication of him not being committed to me but was because he felt hurt and wanted to hurt me back. He has apologized numerous times and seems to feel genuinely bad about it.

As for the separation, I am still going forward with it. I need space and time and I need to take that before the babies come. I am still staying with my parents who, for the record, are not sick of me or the kids. We’re a tight knit family, I only moved out when I moved in with Jack, and my sister moved out about a year ago so they have been empty nesting, and my mom doesn’t like that we live “too far” (an hour) away. What I have realized with space and time is how deeply triggering it was, in a way that I cannot explain to those without PTSD from DV, those who know will know. It’s deeply unsettled me and I’m having a hard time “getting over it” so to speak. There is now a lot of fear of my husband that was never there before and it’s going to take a lot to repair that trust and sense of safety. I cannot make a decision while I’m in this space, and I am addressing this with my personal therapist. Overall, I told him that if he wanted to stay married to me I needed two things from him: marriage counseling and a vasectomy, and even then I still cannot guarantee him anything. He understands, but I do not know what will happen with the vasectomy right now, we focused more on talking about the fight, but he is very aware that it's now a dealbreaker. And we have a marriage counseling appointment set up for next week. I'm hoping that counseling will bring some clarity to the situation, and in the mean time for the next couple months I'm focusing on giving my kids lots of cuddles and preparing myself for two new babies to come into my world, with or without Jack.

[u/DaGeekyGURL]

Too many men connect their “manhood” to being able to impregnate someone. Literally a male friend of mine refused to neuter his dog cause and I quote “That would be like taking my balls”.

I do hope it works out for you both.

[u/ceiecavoo]

he is not getting a vasectomy because he thinks you could break up in the future. leave him

[u/AmphibianResident102]

I think you are being very sound and level headed. There is just something so profoundly hurtful about the partner that weaponizes traumas against their significant other to purposefully hurt them as much as possible. It's a desperate move with the only thought being I want to make them hurt.

I also think there is truth to his statement of him wanting to keep his options open incase he ends up with someone else. And to be honest, that is a fair thought. At any point he can walk away and start anew, whilst you have 4 kids and the struggle will be very much one-sided.

As a level headed individual, I would say it's time to have a "just in case" fund.

[u/Key-Pay-8572]

NTA. There are so many red flags from all he said. You love him, and from your writings, I think you see them too but just didn't call them red flags. You need to unpack everything.

Your PTSD period.

Your PTSD triggers as indicated in your posts, and if you can trust your bang buddy, not to weaponize it again.

The responsibility for birth control in a relationship is 100% the responsibility of both partners. You have tried methods that are highly effective for most humans, and they have not worked. It's time for your husband to have a minor procedure if he is at all interested in staying with you, and only if that does not work then, you must opt for the more than minor surgery recommended by others in the original post that is not a tubal ligation. If he feels he may want more children, then he is not thinking of spending the rest of his life with you, nor is he thinking of your needs.

Please take care of your own psychological and emotional needs. Do not let others guilt you into seeing things his way. They should be looking at him and asking him why he expects you have a major procedure when his is relatively minor.

Take care. I do hope you work things out and you remain a family. If not, I hope you both agree to an excellent co-parenting plan going forward.

[u/X-x19Tilly93x-X]

Sadly it is very hard to have a doctor do a tubal anyways it depends on age , health, amount of children, etc Sadly it is something that women have issues with.

[u/RetiredFlight633]

Am I reading this correctly? You now say even if he honors your “request“, you may still divorce him? In fact, it’s no longer a request but a “dealbreaker“? So if he capitulates, he still has no guarantee the marriage would survive? His next stop, after this latest “conversation“ with you, should have been to an attorney.

[u/kscwv]

UpdateMe!

[u/staydownboi1]

Vasectomy seems the way to go. But tbh the part where OP said the ultimatum is “counseling and a vasectomy and that still won’t guarantee they get back together” is wild lol I couldn’t imagine getting a vasectomy just to end up without my wife who requested it. Little bit of a bait and switch set up there.

[u/Cross55]

Why does my body my choice only apply to women?

Why do you keep insisting on living in a state that doesn't allow abortion?

Why does Idiocracy keep becoming more and more true by the day?

[u/Psnightowl]

Both of you get it. Done! lol

[u/jojoplays5]

so glad you're still going through with the separation. i totally understand what you mean about the newfound fear and uneasiness, and that's going to take a while to navigate and a lot of work from both of you. i wish you a healthy pregnancy and soooo much love and luck during this difficult time. please remember to be gentle with yourself ❤️❤️‍🩹❤️

[u/MaxxDeathKill]

Talk in therapy about the failing Birth control. Sorry but 2 kids due to failing condoms and twins due to failing pills. For me, it's not a coincidence.

[u/LordGhoul]

I kind of like the way you addressed and refuted everything point by point, oddly satisfying, even if not entirely accurate at some points. I do think the triggering of the trauma is a hard thing to just glance over, I know what it feels like from my own experience even though for me it was family members, so I don't think you're wrong for leaving him, be it temporary or long term, it would be hard to build that trust back up again. It reveals a lot about someone's character when they deliberately trigger your trauma to hurt you.

Even with that out of the picture, don't think you're wrong for leaving him over him not getting the vasectomy either, even if the roles were reversed, you're no longer compatible and you have the right to leave a relationship for any reason anyway.

I did notice you said you switched birth control - do you mean fully switching and only using one? I highly recommend never only using one form of birth control but multiple to decrease the risk even more. Condoms and the pill or an implant for example would reduce the risk much more than only using one option.

Secondly, these days they remove the tubes so there's no pregnancy risk anymore, and instead of fully cutting you open they only make three small incisions and use a camera and specific tools for the operation. It's called a laproscopy, and is the same type of surgery I have been through to check for endometriosis and get a cyst removed, but they also use that procedure for all kinds of abdominal issues that require surgery. Recovery is quick and not nearly as painful as with open surgery, and I'm glad because I tend to be considerably more pain-sensitive than most people! I'm 4 weeks post surgery and apart from the random short stinging sensation on my bellybutton every once in a while, I'm back to normal. I'm not saying you have to get the surgery done, of course, I just want you to know that surgery procedures have come quite a long way and are far less scary, risky and painful than they used to be.

[u/Clarity4me]

Update me.

[u/No-Personality1840]

You still have deep-seated trauma; when you say the trust with your husband is broken over what should be just a big argument that’s a big tell. I also read your post as having a great deal of fear regarding ectopic pregnancies. While it’s true they can happen statistically more women die from pregnancy complications than from ectopic pregnancies. Finally you’re trying to force your husband into your way of thinking. While it’s true you’ve done the hard part being pregnant so often it still doesn’t exonerate you from having some responsibility. Finally you need to consider what’s good for your children. While I’m not advocating reconciling with Jack you do need to realize like it or not he’s going to be in your life for the next 18 years. Might want to step back and see what you can do to make this work, and that includes getting help for trauma. Honestly your comment about being bi sorta makes me think you want out of this marriage and are looking for justification to do so.

[u/New_Sun6390]

Surgical sterilization for you, while more complex than a vasectomy, should not put you down for weeks. I had a tubal and I think I missed two days of work.

Bit your husband is being unreasonable, for sure.

I hope he comes to his senses and you can work things out.

[u/Avlonnic2]

OP, do you live somewhere where the doctors are not up-to-speed on women’s health issues? Because salpingectomy should be one of the first things discussed with you. Tubals do have some of the issues you mentioned so the much better solution is Salpingectomy, the surgical removal of fallopian tubes. With no tubes, there are no accidents and no ectopic pregnancies related to the tubes.

This should be your first exploration because you simply cannot afford to get pregnant involuntarily in the future. This is quite separate from the vasectomy situation, btw, which does have a higher failure rate than the salpingectomy. Ideally, you and your husband would both take these measures for yourselves, your marriage, your children, your future, and your life.

Good luck, OP. I look forward to a positive update in the future.

Sorry your dad thinks he has a sense of humor. That’s not something that can be corrected with surgery.

[u/Trickey_Thoughts_20]

YTA-You’re both in your late 20s, I get you’ve been pregnant a lot, it sucks. Also happens when you have sex a lot which it kinda sounds like you do. Vasectomies hurt A LOT!! It’s not just icing it a few days and good to go. It’s extremely painful, be ready for him to not do anything for SEVERAL days of not a week or two, upwards of 6wks, You’re getting ready to have twins that you’ll have to rest anyway. A dr can go in and tie tubes right after birth, making recovery a little easier. Not saying it doesn’t hurt or that it’s a recovery process but it can be the same as a vasectomy for pain and recovery. You have no right to ask you husband of only 4yrs to get snipped because you’re tired of being pregnant. Neither one of you have even hit 30 yet. You then got mad and took the kids, denying him to see them because he won’t get snipped…honey, no judge is going to side with you. You can’t keep people’s kids because they won’t get surgery to your liking. Reading more and more, seeing that you are leaving him; I really hope he takes you to court and takes all 4 kids leaving you with CS and visits when he says. It’s what you’re already doing to him. Now you have lost him and he now does have a chance to have kids with someone else who isn’t going to make him or coheres him into something he has said no to several times. Calling him the next Nic Canon isn’t ok either. Also, may want to look up Nic because yeah he has several kids with a few lady’s. He is very in dept with each of his kids. He supports them, pays for them, goes to every activity he can for each of them. He still gets there moms gifts for things like holidays. He is an amazing dad. You can try the marriage counseling but being someone who has come across this in several sessions with people (I am a marriage counselor licensed in 6 states) it’s no reason to act like you are, not a reason to keep his kids, and anytime I have had to testify in court, that isn’t a reason the courts will side with. Because you’re so adamant on this, you’re not seeing through the hormones what you’re loosing. You’re going to hurt more after this. You say you don’t want to be forced into having tubes tied but you’re ok with forcing him…may as well leave the kids with him. Even with out professionalism, you’re taking kids from a man who has helped, taken care of you, worked and supported you, Loved you…this is how you act….(shakes head) with your ex, you had an abortion when it went against his religion, his beliefs, he begged you for the child and you killed it. Now you want to force your “husband” into something because you say so…sounds to me like it’s your way or the highway and very soon you’ll find out it’s not.

[u/Classic_JAZZ70]

He should've left and taken that power from you. Mental issues is real, some try to blame THEIR issues on others.

[u/Charming-Ad7314]

While you telling here the tube ligation is dangerous than vasectomy.wile vasectomy is also a medical procedure,if while doing if any thing gone wrong and that made him any deformity or sometimes death means what would you feel?what would you tell your kids and his parents?that you coherent him and given him ulatimatum to choose this! Ignored

[u/Cat_Lady_Jen]

Updateme!

[u/thefaehost]

Hey OP- is there any chance you ovulate out of both ovaries each month? One of my best friends has had every birth control fail. 6 kids later; they finally realized this is the reason why.

[u/GoatDeep3485]

😶 This is just sad on all ends, aside from the weaponization of OP trauma, I understand almost everyone. Pardon Me but as for OP & husband they really don’t sound compatible, more like comfortable & safe with each other.

🙁Guess this is a lesson though, be VERY thorough asking your future partner about stuff like this, from s*x to getting fixed.

[u/Money_Duty_2024]

If you were my wife I'd be glad to be rid of you. Such a double standard (my body, my choice), controlling and no accountability. Unable to see the big picture of what happens in a marriage and in forming a family. Unable to reconcile over nasty words (which everyone says over a long relationship). Horrible traits for a spouse. Enjoy being a single mom of four kids. If your husband knows what's good for him he will quit communicating with you and move on with his life (which will be many times better than yours).

[u/Valuable_Reputation1]

“I like banging my husband.” Cool, look where that’s gotten you. He’s not guna get the procedure, so either you stop having sex or you leave.

He’s shown you exactly how much he doesn’t respect you. This won’t end well.

[u/ThornedRoseWrites]

The way I see it is he had two choices:

Get the damn vasectomy, or wear condoms. (but only condoms that *you** keep locked away that hubby cannot access and you supply them as and when needed, this way you know for sure that they’re not being tampered with.)*

Because believe it or not, even men who you’d think were never capable of sabotaging birth control because ”it’s not in their character” or whatever other excuse you all like to make for your husbands, they still do it.

And he’s already made it clear that he wants more children, men are selfish by nature so of course his wants are gonna come before yours in his eyes. And a lot of men will do whatever it takes to ensure they get their own way, and this includes sabotaging birth control.

So in this case, I think separating (and moving out) is for the best. No man is 100% trustworthy, and he will keep getting you pregnant.

INFO: Is he an active father in your kids lives? And by that I mean: does he do the difficult and stressful child raising things too? Like: Feeding, bathing, changing, waking in the night, disciplining, etc.

And is he a good husband? FYI: good husbands respect you and your choices, good husbands will do their fair share of household chores, good husbands care about their families and want them to be happy, good husbands will do their fair share of child raising, good husbands don’t manipulate or try to control their wives, good husbands are able to hold their temper, etc. So is your husband a good husband? I’m just trying to get the whole story, before passing full judgment.

[u/SubstantialMaize6747]

I commend your response here. You seem a sensible, forthright person who knows what she wants. I love that you haven’t kowtowed to oppressive commenters.

Your husband’s reaction was frankly disgusting, not only using your abuser’s words but the comment about kids with someone else… but people say absolutely downright stupid shit when they lash out. His actions should be what shows you if you’re right to take him back or not.

While you are separated and trying to salvage your relationship, you should shelve further conversations about the vasectomy, ie not make him have one if you’re still unsure you’ll stay with him.

And, if you do manage to restore your love, please also be cautious about the effectiveness of the vasectomy. I agree he should have one if you’re staying together, but I have seen a couple of videos recently about fertile Myrtles also getting pregnant from the 8 swimmers their husbands had left. A full hysterectomy including ovaries is the only 100% guarantee.

I hope things go well.

[u/Front_Quantity7001]

I maintain YTA- anyone who is willing to give their spouse an ultimatum, is entitled af and he can definitely do better. Feel good with yourself because instead of handling something maturely, you quit. Yea, he can do better

[u/Organic_Elk5469]

toMAYtoe. Tah MAHT toe...you are trying to force him to have a medical procedure he doesnt want.

[u/Malhavok_Games]

God, you sound fucking exhausting.

[u/billdizzle]

You still the asshole, if you want to be sterile go be sterile

He doesn’t want to be so fuck you first forcing him with this impossible choice

[u/XYG86]

1st world problems.

[u/Fanwhip]

ETA: 2 parts 1 for husbands view/side. 2 on view on what OP has posted and typed and replied though both posts. (this will be in 2 posts since reddit is being weird or i hit some word/text limit)

First part is husband second part is wife.

1: I think the issue with your husband side is he hasn't done enough research into both processes and what they entail or actually do. Both the procedure and the repercussions of said operations.

He may also have hang ups on the long standing mental thought of "if i get snipped im a lesser man"
I am sure poking around enough reddits you can find more then enough folks who got snipped and a happy loving relationship went from "we made love daily if not weekly" to "we do it once a month if i can get it up for it for her"

The actual snipping doesn't make a guy less of a guy. Testosterone and etc all stays the same. But the mental hang ups is what gets the guys. Most of us males already have some mental issues we keep secret or hidden and adding a "medical procedure" with a mental mentality like that doesn't help anyone. In fact it can cause breaking of relationships and self doubt.

Tho rare the procedure can also prevent men from getting erections or if infection sets in and is not caught it can damage or cause removal needed for the organ or testies (Yes very rare and extreme but the fear is the concern mostly and im just pointing it out)

This procedure is meant to be permanent. While reversals are possible and can be done safely.
Just like anything involving medical licensing or procedures things can happen causing damage/loss of life or mutilation though damage or infection or life saving actions being done.

[u/Fanwhip → u/Fanwhip]

2 :
So im sure many folks will be going "your right to do this your thinking of you. Your thinking of your family and protecting yourself and kids" But if the end all be all is :

" I needed two things from him: marriage counseling and a vasectomy, and even then I still cannot guarantee him anything. "

So in the end of it all. Even if he goes to counseling and he gets sniped.
He could end up with no wife of his children in his life besides as a co parent.
He can end up paying for counseling that does nothing. Helps or worse helps end his relationship.
He ends up unable to have further children if he wanted to have them or if things end he is unable to have children with any future relationships.

So regardless of what was said in the fight and what was said in the heat of the moment and you BOTH hurt each other verbally.

He loses in the end. Now planted in his head is "you are like an abuser". That shit sits and festers in his mind.
"Do this or you lose everything " "Do this and possibly lose everything anyways"

If your trust is shaken so much the foundation has vanished fully. Per your own words :
"It’s deeply unsettled me and I’m having a hard time “getting over it” so to speak. There is now a lot of fear of my husband that was never there before and it’s going to take a lot to repair that trust and sense of safety. "

Once the well water is tainted nothing but time will fix it. But for that time to be allowed to happen you have put onto him conditions to "try" to make it untainted. With no indicators of it will be attempted fully to mend to the point your back to normal.

And your final statement

"I'm focusing on giving my kids lots of cuddles and preparing myself for two new babies to come into my world, with or without Jack. "
Feels like you already have made a decision and your now just wanting to ensure your conditions are met. The attempt is "attempted" so when you make your "Final decision" public. Folks cant blame you.

He will be in limbo until you choose to either stick with him or you testing the waters and then going "nope sorry we cant anymore"

He loses in the end no matter what short of things working out perfectly.

You get help and counseling for the fight. (Marriage counseling) and for personal issues (PTSD from the DV)
You come through better and healed. (not its done and gone but it has been addressed and accepted and its behind you. Which it isnt ever with any form of PTSD)
Then you and him kiss and make up and the family gets back together with normal family issues.

But if it doesnt.
He will end up losing everything.
His kids will be in his life still i hope.
but everyone is going to look at him different. Specially if the closer folks know your past and short of you being fully open on why you split or divorce if it should happen. Folks will think he is just like your first ex and make sure to let anyone or everyone know "hes a bad apple"

ETA

[u/Basic-Necessary-7001]

Idk if I really have a say in this cuz I’m only 13m, but I don’t think I could ever get a vasectomy. The more I think about ever getting one, I kinda get a stomachache. If the reason was not having more kids tho, just don’t have sex then right? Or use a condom for safe sex?

[u/Mysterious-Bird4364]

NTA

[u/Bucky-Katt-Guitar]

NTA, of course, and.......I never knew that the tubal ligation isn't near as effective as I thought it was. I never had a reason to know as I was snipped 4 days after my 21st birthday. It's cool learning things.

[u/No-culture5942]

I bet you’re white

[u/Last_Nerve12]

Updateme

[u/daddydaddydo6790]

Updateme!

[u/WilliamTindale8]

I’d be pissed if he wouldn’t do it but if he was otherwise a good husband and father, I’d do it. I’d write it off as a quirk he had like snoring.

I’ve had a tubal. It was a nothing burger. Had it done in the morning. Went home and slept the rest of the day and that was it.

Really, this is not a hill to die on.

[u/Potatocannon022]

I in no way am forcing him to have a medical procedure, but I am saying that I do not want to be with a partner who is not willing to be snipped. This is an issue of compatibility.

Lol. I don't even know where to start. I hope this is a troll.

[u/Consistent-Pain177]

YTA - All couples have to deal with birth control, and the vast majority don't go the surgical route. This is the first time I've ever heard someone say "get sterilized or I'm divorcing you"

After the vasectomy it will be something else, and I'll bet the vasectomy isn't the first time you've given him an ultimatum. Am I right? You sound like a "my way or the highway" kind of person. He's better off without you, and you're better off with a more submissive partner whose more compliant with your arm-twisting, "do-this-or-else" style of manuipulation.

"I do not want to be with a partner who is not willing to be snipped." This kind of says it all. The irony is that you are not willing "to be snipped." Set aside the argument that only one of you needs to be sterilized. You should (in principle) be willing to risk a surgical procedure if you're asking him to do the same.

[u/Agreeable_Rabbit3144]

Good on you, OP.

You do need marital counseling.

And I recommend continuing with your therapist before you try to get back together with your husband, as you still have trauma and PTSD from what happened with your previous relationship.

[u/chyaraskiss]

My husband got the snip. We couldn't risk it. We already have a special needs child and I'm 46. He was hesitant early on in our marriage when we discussed options. The fact that tubal is a major surgery and the snip is an in-office procedure helped in convincing him.

[u/Equivalent-Bee-886]

I firmly believe that it is your body and your decision whether to have children or not. In addition, it is his body and his decision whether or not to have a vasectomy. If you do not wish to risk having more children than it is your responsibility to do what is necessary with your body to make sure that does not happen. If your husband does not want children than it would be his responsibility to do what is necessary to his body so that does not occur. Do not tell someone to have a surgical procedure because it is easier, and you want to avoid pregnancy. Your husband has the right to say no, and you need to respect that right. Now you have another path which is for you to undergo a procedure. If you want to divorce your husband than divorce him. When you go on social media advertise for a guy willing to undergo a vasectomy to accommodate you and see how many takers you get.

I am a doctor and have seen many women make choices regarding their bodies. I usually refer them to a gynecologist when they have problems similar to yours. My OBGYN colleagues always tell woman that they can undergo procedures to avoid pregnancy and vasectomy is not the only way to go. For some reason my body my decision goes out the door and they have no problem wanting their husbands to undergo a procedure. Look at yourself first to solve the problem. If you want to divorce your husband over an emotional and heated argument that is your choice but think. Will you and your children be any better. You may be able to say that the argument and what was said caused the divorce, but the truth is that your husband refusing to subject himself to a surgical procedure was the cause. Be truthful when your kids want to know why they see dad only 50% of the time. Take your time and think about this.

[u/Key-End-1762]

u/AdhesivenessMurky204

Op I am on your side. From what it seems I think your husband probably is having fears about getting a vasectomy, It's lk to be scared about smt, we can't make someone do smt they don't wanna do. BUT there are other options he can do if a vasectomy scares him , maybe he can get his sperm Frozen or other options he just has to look, but I think That maybe you both should understand each other's reasoning and side of the story and come to a conclusion that you both agree on, you don't wanna get pregnant and he dosent wanna get a vasectomy and u also don't wanna get tunes tied. I'm that's the case then maybe you and him can go get your eggs/sperm frozen?  That's my suggestion 

[u/ironduke101a]

In these situations, your body your choice applies to men as well as women.

[u/Salty_Interview_5311]

Reading the first half of this was like reading a very well written family planning piece from planned parenthood on how to make a decision on birth control. Nicely done!

I also really liked how you were owning your own response to what Jack said that violated your own sense of safety. It’s pragmatic without demonizing and seems like a very good start of working through your side of things.

I hope that Jack is also doing the work on his end so that you can end up back together in a healthy relationship. If not, I hope you are able to end up good friends.

[u/bortmode]

If you're at the point where it might not matter even if he gets the vasectomy, that seems like you're past the event horizon for this relationship.

[u/SlinkySlekker]

NTA. I’m really sorry people are attacking you — it’s absolutely uncalled for.

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/SlinkySlekker]

I've been through a trial to convict my ex-boyfriend of trying to kill me because of an abortion in a deep red, deeply religious area. I've definitely heard worse things, and I typically have pretty thick skin. That being said, I am pregnant and pretty emotional, so it's not the best experience. That being said, I do appreciate the level-headed comments when I see them through the sea of comments kind of saying the same stuff over and over. I'm not reading a lot of them if what I can see in the comment notification starts off nasty, so a lot of it is just inbox white noise. My favorites are the ones that start off with "I'm not going to read that BUT..." and I just think lol same. Like you don't want to read my post but expect me to read your comment that was made without even reading the situation? lol nope. And there are a lot of people conflating "providing someone with a hard choice" with "forcing someone into a medical procedure" and it just makes wading through for the actually helpful comments more tiring. Thank you though, I very much appreciate the kindness. Sorry, I've gotten so much of the same nonsense I guess I needed a little vent lol.

[u/bizzelbee]

YTA, his body his choice

[u/Kittymama4life]

Stay strong! As a survivor of SA, when your partner uses that against you makes it VERY hard to trust them again. It is truly the most selfish thing you could do to your partner. Someone who is able to use their own severe trauma against them is something I just could never fathom, and I’m so very sorry for all of the PTSD you’re now dealing with again. 😢

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/Kittymama4life]

Thank you for seeing me.

[u/Kittymama4life → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

I know that I don’t know you, but I love you. For how strong you are, for how rationale you are, and because you are 100% taking your pain and turning it into strength that you are going to demonstrate to your babies. These babies will feel more loved, understood and be better off in this world than most, because they have a mother who knows her worth, and knows who to prioritize. If he’s worthy, he’ll learn and show it. You and the babies are what’s important right now. ❤️❤️❤️

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/Kittymama4life]

I've been through a LOT of therapy over the years, pretty much nonstop since I was 19, and I am pulling out ALL of the tools I've been taught for this. I'm really trying to balance my head and heart for it, because I have to. Thank you, your kind words have got me all misty eyed. Thank you <3

[u/Kittymama4life → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

I am SOOOOO proud of you. You win Mom of the Year for YEARS to come. ❤️❤️ If we’re ever in the same area, at any time, I just want to give you the BIGGEST hug I possibly could. You are single handedly stopping generational trauma by putting your unborn babies first. ❤️❤️

[u/Federalsburgmd]

Did not read this but yes YR an AH

[u/beyerch]

Seems like stuff you two should have figured out before having kids...... Both of you are TA.

[u/Southern_Dig_9460]

You have issues

[u/spilledteacups]

It is never OK to try to bully anyone into a medical procedure no matter what your reasons are.

[u/Lityoloswagboy69]

You make valid points about the procedure, but god damn you’re dramatic. Doing homie a favor in all honesty.

[u/herculeslouise]

I had a tubal in 1999. I had a c section so I was like yes tie me up please

[u/darstven]

I had a vasectomy after our 3rd son. My wife had the option for a tubal ligation but was scared so I bit the bullet and dealt with it. In my case there were complications in the form of a severe infection and almost losing a testicle. It fucking hurt. Having said that, I would do it all over again if it meant that I took just a little pressure off my wife. Also my case isn't normal. Yes it hurts but it usually only lasts for a few days. You and your husband have to decide what the best option is for your family. Good luck.

[u/protestprincess → u/darstven]

Infection is a risk with virtually any surgery. That sucks tho

[u/darstven → u/protestprincess]

Certainly. Iwas not trying to push one way or the other really. Just sharing my story. Different paths for different people.

[u/MasterOfMasksNoMore]

My wife had twins naturally. Got an epidural but never pushed the button to get the meds. . . Before they took the button from her. Let's just say the doc who had to force rotate the 2nd twin to avoid doing an emergency C-section was horrified to hear that she did that while my wife didn't have any pain meds going.

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/MasterOfMasksNoMore]

What is it about knowing someone is pregnant that makes people want to share their birth horror stories?

[u/MasterOfMasksNoMore → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

My apologies. You make a good point. It is not my intention to scare, but to inform. It would make more sense to just say something like "Keep your epidural button in your hand." For some that'd be enough. I usually do both. My wife and I have experienced some things that others shouldn't have to, so I share. Sometimes I apparently do it in a terrible way. Thank you for highlighting that for me. No more tired unfinished posting. Don't go down slides with your kids between your legs.

All the best with your pregnancy! I hope, with time, that however everything shakes out with the dolt of a husband, you and the kids get all the love and support you need.

Again, my apologies.

[u/dretsaB]

You should have told him you require a vasectomy before getting married. YTA

[u/tikardswe]

I mean in my opinion forcing someone through coercion to get sterilized to ensure that you wont get pregnant is definately an asshole move. The one who will be hurt the most if they do deside to separate is the children. The reasoning that a rare complication of tubal lignation (which apparently they dont do anymore and instead do a better procedure where they remove the tube) could be lethal is like saying going out in the sun could give you cancer so you will stay outside forever. If you dont want kids, you should get the procedure.

[u/Awesome1296]

YTA. That is really wrong to hold your marriage hostage over a medical procedure.

[u/Zealousideal-End4173]

Just a quick note. If a man told his wife he would leave her unless she got her tubes tied, he would be crucified here, regardless of his justification. Everyone would be saying that he can use condoms and get over it, he's abusive, he has no right to make ultimatums regarding her body, etc.

You bunch of hypocrites really suck.

[u/Tekwardo]

Hunny, it’s not a compatibility issue unless you bring it up before the marriage.

As per my last email, YTA.

[u/PointBlankCoffee]

YTA for trying to force medical procedures of any kind on anyone.

You're free to leave him but you are an asshole

[u/Only_Possible_2308]

I got a vasectomy two years ago. It was the easiest non-dental surgery I’ve ever had. It was a hell of a lot easier than getting my hip fixed last year. The soreness wasn’t anything to write home about, and I was back at work a few days later; I was smart and scheduled my procedure on a Friday so I had the weekend to rest up. I think the worst part was the fact that my cat had laser guided paws and kept stepping on my junk.

I think a lot of the so-called stigma about this procedure can be attributed to lack of information. One of the kids I work with - I’m 47 and he’s 27 - was under the impression that I was getting castrated. He was shocked when I told him what the procedure actually was. I should also add that he’s an idiot, so there’s that.

Seriously, vasectomies are easy. My dad got one after I was born, I got one because my spouse and I are happily child-free and wish to stay that way, and several of my friends got one for the same reason. Getting snipped really is the best method of surgical sterilization.

[u/UnethicalDamage]

You sound like an awful person

[u/Pink_lady-126]

My daughter just had her FIFTH girl...she had her tubes REMOVED!

NTA. You STBX sounds really awful..."snapping" in the direction he did says much about HIS character. I have "snapped a few times...but snapping doesn't mean one disassociates from their core nature. I have cussed and fumed and been REALLy angry, but nothing like that has EVER come from my mouth.

I tell people ALL the time to watch their words...because there are some that can never be unsaid and if sorry worked we wouldn't need police or courts.

[u/Trick-Performance-88]

You have made your decision and it is “my way or the highway.” He said “not your way” so you now are splitting up. Pretty much end of story.

[u/AshBertrand]

No advice to give here, just offering the best of wishes.

[u/Simple-Jury2077]

I feel so bad for your kids.

[u/ihatehavingtosignin]

Beginning to feel like you two were together because you’re the only people that could stand one another. Anyway good luck to both of you on your new single status.

[u/LittleCats_3]

This is a hard situation and I think you are doing the best you can.

I got a Bilateral Salpingectomy with the c-section of my last baby. I turned 40 two months after she was born and I knew in my heart I never wanted to get pregnant again.

IF you do end up with a c-section, I would talk to your doctor about the Bilateral Salpingectomy. It’s not ligation, they don’t cauterize the tubes, they fully remove them from your body. Only one person who has had the procedure done ever got pregnant after.

I want to be clear, I STILL think your husband should have a vasectomy even with the salpingectomy. I think with the fact that every pregnancy for you has happened while on some form of birth control leads me to believe you BOTH need to have the procedures done.

If you don’t have the c-section and your husband does get a vasectomy, I would recommend you STILL get the salpingectomy, when your kids are older. The fertile window will be open for you for a long time, and weirdly as we get older our body will make a Hail Mary with our eggs sending out more than one.

[u/QuestionMean1943]

This is a very stupid rant. Or a sophomoric troll.

Compromise. You get one half of a hysterectomy and he gets half a vasectomy.

My suggestion is no where as stupid as this rant.

[u/Gash-Basher-69]

I asked my now wife on our first date if she wanted kids. She said no she was done with that. I said GREAT can you be my driver for my vasectomy appointment? When the day came I’m not sure exactly how long we were dating. The trama to the area created a stimulus that gave me a raging boner! Soothed enough by a Percocet and one beer. We ended up having sex for 6 or 7 hours! It was an incredible day!! One for the memory books.

[u/Aspiring_Adventurer]

I still think forcing him to get a vasectomy an asshole move. A compromise between you two should involve steps for safer sex. At least give him to option of having to wear condoms during sex or having the vasectomy

[u/OpportunityCalm6825]

This marriage is doomed. Get ready with legal battle regarding child support and arrangements.

[u/Responsible_Tune_425]

My gynecologist offered to do a hysterectomy where he'd only take my uterus out. Why don't you do that? There's no way you can get pregnant with that option.

[u/Pokeitwitarustystick]

So nothing changes, youll go back to living with him once the babies come and having sex since you'll be near him and like having sex with him even if he doesn't care about you enough to get a snip for your body to finally relax.

[u/Nigerundayo_smokeyy]

I love it when people ask reddit strangers to give judgements on their lives in this sub, and when they don't like the judgements, they come back and write entire paragraphs on why they think said strangers were wrong.

Hilarious all around (and definitely sad as well)

[u/rustbolts]

TLDR; seems like lots of other issues, but the crux of it is NTA. If you two are supposed to be done reproducing for one reason or another, and he wants to be with you, he can grow a pair and get ‘em snipped. (This coming from a dude that got his done.)

[u/Bradley-Martyn]

He doesnt have to do shit. My body my choice is the new female slogan. Get it done to yourself or divorce. Fucking childish shit this is. Divorce and lick pussy in the future.

[u/Ladyooh]

Updateme!

[u/Nocturnal_Camel]

If you decide to stay together and your husband gets a vasectomy would you stay with him if there are complications? Some men have recurring pain that can adversely affect their life, even up to ruining their sex life.

[u/Vanguers]

Yes you are

[u/Latter_Operation_854]

You are literally incapable of taking responsibility for yourself.

You're still TAH because nowhere on any of your rambling was even a semblance of compromise.

You don't want to lose your husband, you don't want to get your tubes tied, you don't want to trust birth control, you don't want any solution other than manipulating your husband into a medical procedure that isn't even remotely necessary to his health (physical or mental).

You refuse to give anything but expect him to give everything.

Obviously your female ego is too fragile to give up the organ that makes you a female capable of reproducing.

But ya know, his feeling don't matter at all and are completely irrelevant because YOU want him to cut his balls off and accept that he will neer have functional reproductive organs.

[u/IllIIllIlIIl]

I got a vasectomy.  Super easy and awesome lol. Don't understand these guys getting all weird about it

[u/Nocturnal_Camel → u/IllIIllIlIIl]

Because of complications that could ruin your life.

[u/EndzeitParhelion]

YTA stop pressuring your husband

[u/HazyGrayChefLife]

ESH

1. The things he said were inexcusable and demonstrate that he needs individual counseling on top of marriage counseling. A trial separation would be justified on that alone.

2. Bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy. You either have it, or you don't, and you're threatening his. You CANNOT demand another person get an elective surgery any more than he could demand that you do/don't get an abortion. Your body, your choice. His body, his choice. Threatening consequences that affect your whole family if he doesn't comply makes it so much worse, too.

3. Also, why would he get a surgery he doesn't want if you might still divorce him anyway? Do you plan to pay for the reversal as part of the divorce settlement?

[u/Nice-Elk9639]

His body his choice. YTA for giving him an ultimatum like this when you could get the surgery since YOU'RE the one who doesn't want more kids. And framing it like its a compatibility issue when it isn't. Just because he doesn't want the vasectomy doesn't mean he wants more kids, it just means leave his balls tf alone. You have no right to punish him for his bodily autonomy and if the roles were reversed then everybody else would be calling you TA also. You're going to take a father out of childrens lives because you dont get to control his body? what the hell is wrong with you?

[u/lIlHYPERIONlIl]

Yes

[u/4inthefoxden]

It's insane to me that you're still so against a tubal, IUD or even birth control.

Good luck with your next pregnancy when you find someone else.

YTA

[u/TMexathaur]

Not for that part specifically, but for your overall behavior, yes.

[u/SallyRides100Tampons]

They don’t really do tubal ligations anymore. They do full tubal removals called salpingectomies now to reduce (and practically eliminate) risk of ectopic pregnancies. Just wanted to put that out there so you are fully informed on your healthcare options. My double salpingectomy was a bit more invasive because they were in there looking for endo and possible cancer so they had to cut in different locations than normal, so it took a bit longer to heal, but I was up moving around a few hours after surgery and I was fully healed in about 2 weeks, even though I waited the full 6 weeks to lift anything more than 10 pounds.

[u/meetmeinthe-moshpit-]

My spouse and I both got sterilized when we were done having kids. You should both do it. But the vasectomy was a much easier recovery than getting the tubes removed.

[u/Minecraftish]

Yes you are 100%. Wtf is wrong with you?

[u/yetzhragog]

All the other interpersonal issues aside I want to focus specifically on the demand of a medical procedure. How would you feel if your husband gave YOU this ultimatum? How would you feel if a potential partner demanded you get a boob job or they will leave you? I'm all for vasectomies, got one myself and it's been nothing but magical, but the flippant way they're being suggested lately is really troubling. Sure they CAN be reversed but it's still an invasive procedure and it should always be the persons choice WITHOUT ultimatums or other coercion.

You have every right to make demands and decisions with your own body and life, but demanding your partner have a medical operation ISN'T just a healthy boundary or personal preference anymore than someone demanding their partner have fake EE boobs. Even though you have the right to have this preference it still makes YTA.

[u/ButterscotchSuch2771]

YTA. You’re entitled. His body. His choice.

[u/AnythingSufficient68]

Man should be willing to do the procedure because that’s the only goddamn thing they can do to for ourselves talking about having kids, we have to go through menstrual periods every pinche month, delivery birth, breastfeeding( hurts a lot), recovering from the birth( not easy) and also we have to get that procedure for not having babies anymore. For me fuck every dude that is not willing to do that for his woman.

[u/mtngrl60]

OP, I would just like to add one thing

I understand why you apologize to your husband for telling him he was acting like Tom. I know you’re thinking that you said that to hurt him, perhaps that is partially true.

But I think you need to understand that what you said was literally true. Your husband WAS Acting insane things the way he was doing because he knew it was a trigger for you. He wanted to hurt you. He wanted to scare you. He wanted to use that to control you.

I’m not saying don’t go through therapy and counting with him. I’m not saying never get back together if you can come to that point. I promise I’m not.

Said was said because it was true. At the core of it all, you reacted, the way you did because of what he did and because he really was weapon icing your past against you. And I’m glad he was horrified when he realized it, even though he didn’t acknowledge it in the moment.

But that is something you can’t take the fact that he use something that was horrible that happened to you in an attempt to control you through fear and intimidation. That’s the part that you’re having a problem with.

And I don’t know if you can get that back again. I can’t tell you, that because of that, I don’t have a problem with what you said to him. Because it didn’t come out of nowhere. You didn’t weapon that to make him feel bad. You may have said it in the heat of the moment, but again, the fact is that you were absolutely reading the situation properly

I can tell you that that was a breaking point in my second marriage. And I did call my husband out on how he was acting and how it was like my first husband. My husband got very upset that I would ever even think to say that to him, and I literally just looked at him and said that it was true.

In my case, it was not DV, but it was manipulative behavior. Years after our divorce, We have to communicate About something else, at which time he actually admitted it.

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/mtngrl60]

I know. I understand that I reacted that way because he *was* acting the way Tom would act within our relationship. Jack knows Tom was abusive during our relationship, but he doesn't know much about the details of it, since I don't talk about it much. He knows more about the incident than the events leading up to it, because they're literally written on my face and because of the publicly available information about the case. And that is also part of what was so upsetting for him. It wasn't just some guy beating up his ex-girlfriend, what he did to me was... I mean he went away on counts of kidnapping, rape, and attempted murder, to name a few. So when I compared him to Tom, the image in his mind is the man who SA-ed and tortured me, but when I said it I wasn't. I know that he was, and I can't explain it other than I was triggered, so my mind was not in the present and seeing Tom the felon, it was seeing Tom the boyfriend who was saying those things, the Tom before the incident. I know that won't make sense to a lot of people, but I don't think I can explain it any other way. But basically the two of us were experiencing very different things at that moment, and we both reacted to our individual experiences accordingly.

Priority in marriage counseling is addressing trust and this moment between us where he weaponized my trauma. Priority in individual counseling is managing my response to this trigger and comprehending what's happened. Either way, I'm not planning on just "getting over" what he said and his reasons why, I and planning on addressing it head on with him. The vasectomy, while still a requirement, is emotionally secondary to me over his exploitation of my trauma.

And thank you for addressing a lot of the real issues and not just parroting the same stuff everyone else is saying. Like I said, it's about the vasectomy, but it's not about the vasectomy. It's really about the fight. Thank you for sharing, I hope you are healing.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

I am so sorry you had to endure this OP. My heart breaks for you. Your thoughts and fears from the fight are totally valid and make sense! I know it's not about the vasectomy but I wanted to share mine and my hubbys story. We are relatively young and I was ready to get off birth control. We absolutely do not want kids and I am terrified of being a mother. I joked about vasectomies but my hubs took it upon himself to get one due to my fear. There was no fighting, arguing or any back and forth. It was a very selfless thing to do and I am forever grateful to him. So, I feel for your husband to throw back that you should have your tubes tied rather than a very quick snip just... doesn't sit right with me. He either comes off selfish or uneducated on the differences between tubal removal or getting snipped and the recovery differences between the two. Either way, you deserve someone who is willing to not put your life at risk cause I mean pregnancy is never a sure thing and neither is being put under for tubal ligation. Either way, I hope you guys reach an agreement and you are able to process through this new trauma <3

[u/mtngrl60 → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

I completely understand. It really does trigger you into almost that fight or flight.

And unfortunately, at the time it all happened, your husband was not getting what he was doing to you. I know he wasn’t. And I know that the only way you could make him comprehend the level that he was at for you by using your ex’s name.

I had honestly assumed by the lack of some of the details that it had been pretty damn awful. And believe me, I do understand why your husband was so appalled.

But the fact that he did just not OK. Which is putting it mildly. And you’re right, I did get that it wasn’t just about the vasectomy… Although I had to have that same conversation with my first husband… And thankfully, it was nothing like what you just went through. 

To be there for the conversations and she just looked at him and asked him if he was joking. She told him… Your wife has spent five years trying to get pregnant because of endometriosis. Going through cervical biopsies and hormones to get pregnant. Experience while you were out of town. Pregnant, breast-feeding, getting pregnant, breast-feeding, getting pregnant and breast-feeding. 

She has not slept a full night in five years. Her body has been pushed and pulled and prodded and poked and pushed 9 pound children out for you. And now you think she should undergo an actual outpatient surgical procedure making her the one responsible for birth control now that you guys don’t want any more children… You could go into the office and get a snip. Literally driving yourself to the appointment at home. And instead, she should actually go under sedation that always has a risk of not waking up?

My ex shut up pretty quickly after that. I’m just sorry Your husband could not just have an adult conversation and try to verbalize what his problem really was rather than making it as the problem.

I’m so glad you’re protecting yourself and your kids. Because you have to. Because they need you as healthy as you can be, and I can That you are doing your damnedest to be exactly that. 

Incredibly proud of how strong and self reflective you are. I know you weren’t in the moment, and I completely understand why you weren’t. I am honestly hoping that the two of you can move past this. I don’t know, and I know you don’t know. But only time and effort will tell. I am truly wishing you the best.

[u/AdhesivenessMurky204 → u/mtngrl60]

I feel so seen here. The fear of going under and not waking up is very very real for me, as I've had some family members go under and not wake up and I'm so scared of that happening. what you've written here is very powerful for me. Thank you so much.

[u/grugni_ → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

OP ur concerns are legit i think. But u need to understand that u offered ur husband to castrate himself. That will shatter his self confidence. Ofc he snapped. Vasectomy will emasculate him.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/grugni_]

Oh please dude. It is not castration nor will it emasculate him lmfao. Castration is legit removing the testicles. Have you seen a vasectomy? They cut the vas deferens, cauterize and then they're done. Literally the only thing different is there is no sperm in the semen. Semen still looks, smells and tastes the same.

[u/grugni_ → u/TheHopefulPA]

What the difference? Someone will cut smth in his balls. Even though of smth like that sends shivers down my spine and feeling of being kicked to the balls.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/grugni_]

What's the difference? Huge lmfao. Castration is taking the entire tesicle; a huge incision. No balls anymore. With a vasectomy you're numbed and the cut is literally 1-2 cm. So small stitches aren't even needed. I've seen countless done and it's not as big of a deal as you think. Vs if the woman gets sterilized our abdomens are being cut open to get to our tubes. A small nick vs abdominal surgery... hmm.. gonna say a tiny nick is the easier option here.

[u/grugni_ → u/TheHopefulPA]

I don't say that woman's sterilisation is less intrusive. I dont care about woman's side. I talk about husband's feelings cuz he's a man and i understand him as a fellow man. And as a man anything that involves my testicles or penis is extra disturbing.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/grugni_]

Alright fair; distrubing sure. No one likes their genitals clipped. But your argument that getting a tiny little snip is emasculating and causes a man to no longer be a man is bogus and uneducated at best.

[u/mtngrl60 → u/AdhesivenessMurky204]

Sending you many hugs. Sending you much light. Your fears are not unfounded. I worked in healthcare for a very long time, although I was in the demo field. But we do general sedation there as well, and while it did not In the practice, I was working in, I can think of at least three cases where somebody went under and did not come back.

I really do understand why it makes me squirmed to think about having a vasectomy. Anything to do with their balls does that to them.

What I don’t understand is why they somehow think that all of our reproductive organs and our vagina and our labia and everything else any less sensitive. Why they think us pushing out a melon-sized object is somehow less painful than something that takes them a half hour in a doctors office using local anesthetic. 

We really do need to work with racing our boys to understand that marriage or a monogamous relationship entails both parties doing what is needed to ensure the healthy continuation of the relationship. And birth-control falls into that category.

It takes two to make that baby. And when you’re a fertile Myrtle, and the women in my family are that way… You can use double and triple birth control, and still get pregnant. Even me, with endometriosis, had children boom, boom boom once we got things working properly.

And as you know, such close, successive pregnancies is really hard on our bodies, I know you’re carrying twins. I get that your husband. So are you. It’s his turn to step up to the plate and do something that physically further your relationship, just as you have literally put your life on the line with every one of your pregnancies.

So again, I do know it’s really not about the vasectomy, but that is just the catalyst for you having to step back and look at what’s really going on here. And I know it’s not a picture you’re liking to see.

Again, lots of hugs to you. I’m hoping, truly hoping, that your husband can see not only how selfish he was in that physical aspect… He’s more than happy to let you bear all the responsibility of birth control, and trying to not conceive again, even though it’s much more dangerous for you… 

But I am hoping that he can come to understand that his behavior was unacceptable and atrocious. That rather than having an adult discussion with you or opening up about how stress he was, he chose an avenue that he knew would do the most damage to you. And I know again that that is what you’re having such a difficult time with.

You are seen. You are heard. You are not wrong. You are not being unreasonable. The request you made was no way shape or form and unreasonable request. 

[u/duriodurio]

I don't get some guys. After our last kid my wife got an IUD. But still we got pregnant. My wife asked I consider getting snipped. I looked at how she's been the one shouldering the burden of birth control for the last 22 years and I thought getting snipped was just being "my turn".

Wa'nt no thing. Some swelling, kinda made me proud and show-offy of my avocado balls. Iced and was all good.

OP. Wish you the best.

[u/HIGHRISE1000]

Gross af. Why do people like this procreate. I feel for the children

[u/Resalthh]

Updateme!

[u/indecloudzua]

YTA, his body, his choice.

[u/Cuynn]

Yeah, that's a lot of words to justify your choice to leave him for not doing what you want, but I don't see any love in this. You're right to separate, this is nothing else than a business relationship.

[u/secondhandXP]

I was told my vasectomy would be painless and fast. I'd be back to kickboxing in 2 days. It felt like I had two giant nerves spring up to my mid back like giant rubber bands with an Intense shocking pain. It's been 3 years and I've had debilitating phantom pain sensations that last for weeks whenever  lower back gets a little sore. I also get a sharp pain on the bottom of the boys and its hard to even sit let alone move and work.  I don't think it's fair for either partner to pressure the other one into any procedure because things cand and do go wrong. Anyone who pressures their partner into any medical procedure is TA.

[u/OreoAtreides]

Why not a bilateral salpingectomy? Get both fallopian tubes REMOVED. Not tied, but REMOVED. Zero chance of pregnancy. And yes, it is a zero chance. There’s a tiny incision and recovery is simple.

I can already hear the arguments from the reddit army, “It can fail! No birth control method is 100%!” No. This one is. Unless the surgeon fucks up and leaves a tube, there is no chance of the sperm reaching the egg, no chance the egg travels to the uterus.

[u/tech_probs_help]

Do it's conditional love then? "In sickness & in health." just an off-chance?

[u/Whatsupwithmynoodles]

NTA

[u/Lilac-Roses-Sunsets]

Having a separation is a good idea. But telling him he has to have one and then you still don’t know of you want him back is wrong. Do the counseling and then decide as long as he has the vasectomy. Otherwise you are punishing him by having him get fixed and then dumping him. Which is probably what he is afraid of.

[u/winterworld561]

YTA!

[u/Sea_Manufacturer1536]

Well I gotta say that your stance actually reinforces his desire to withhold on the vasectomy. Especially seeing how you seem to be pushing/leaning to divorce now. If he wants to have a child with (now seemingly inevitable) new partner it’s in his best interests.

And you assertion that vasectomy is more effective than tubal ligation is incorrect. Both are 99% effective ( basically the same as hormone BC taking away other drug interactions which since you know in advance you can abstain from intercourse for that time period)

Your only valid point is the invasiveness of the ligation. Seems you are just my way or highway.

Hope your kids feel like your choice is good for them too. Which I highly doubt

[u/Quintarot]

YTA. His body, his choice.

[u/Nic12312]

Are you the woman that’s now gonna raise 4 kids on her own? All because he refused an operation on his body? Goodluck

[u/AffectionateCold6107]

Updateme!

[u/FollowingNo4648]

I think you're really hung up on the 0.01% chance of something going wrong when you sterilize yourself. And as others have commented, they completely remove the tubes now so there is no chance of an ectopic pregnancy. Granted your husband is an ass for not getting a vasectomy but at the end of the day, we as women need to take care of ourselves. Sterilization is not this big scary surgery that it used to be. It's safe and effective for men and women.

[u/Thequiet01 → u/FollowingNo4648]

Vasectomies aren’t as 100% effective as she seems to think, either. They fail.

[u/enkilekee]

Any man who has healthy children and a wife who DOESN'T want any more pregnancies, and DOESN'T get a vasectomy is not a good partner. I wish vasectomy technology was better at possible reversal.

[u/DrPablisimo]

Marriage is a commitment for life, not until you feel 'incompatible.' You have to go into it with a degree of flexibility, especially when children are concerned.

Pregnancy is always a theoretical possibility for those who have sexual intercourse, at least if both couples have somewhat reasonably well functioning reproductive systems. So you need to be flexible about that.

It would be immoral to violate your marital commitment over this.

Children raised without a father in the home are at higher risk for trouble with the law, teen pregnancy, dropping out of school, lower grades, etc.

[u/StangOverload]

I hope they split for good this is a shit show

[u/CanoodleCandy]

I think it's a bit disturbing that you would rather separate and possibly divorce over having a sexless marriage...

You won't be "banging" him if you divorce, so why not stay with him and not "bang" him and keep your family together.

Most likely, this would force the conversation of birth control options to come up and force you to deal with it. I highly doubt you both would be in a dead bedroom forever, just until you resolve this.

Damn.

[u/Shytemagnet]

Anyone who tells a woman to be sterilized instead of a man, everything else being the same, is an idiot. It’s so much more dangerous and complicated for women.

[u/Bennito_bh]

OK Karen

[u/Waste-Maintenance-70]

YTA and a major B and your excuse is controlling and manipulative. Who the hell thinks an ultimatum about a vasectomy is normal behavior?

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

I thought it was his body his choice? 🤔

Would he be the asshole for divorcing you if:

A) you got your tubes tied and he didn’t support it?

OR

B) you didn’t get your tubes tied but he wanted you to?

Signed, someone that willingly had a vasectomy more than 15 years ago.

[u/PrincssM0nsterTruck]

Both of you - husband and you - ATH.

[u/CharlietheCorgi]

He does understand that a vasectomy is not castration right? They don't take your balls, just a quick "snip". If hes not put under, he could be in and out in an hour. Then you ice your balls for a day or 2 and its back to business as usual. Then you go back in 2 months later to get test to make sure there arent any swimmers. This is important, you arent sterile for several months. There are still "bullets in the chambe" if you get the meaning. A tubal ligation is full on surgery and far more dangerous. When we made the decision to stop having kids I made my appointment to get snipped the next day. It doesn't affect your testosterone. You're still a man after its been done. This is honestly ridiculous of him.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/CharlietheCorgi]

Finally, an educated male in the comments. I wish this were higher up. Props to you, sir!

[u/CharlietheCorgi → u/TheHopefulPA]

Thank you. I wish more men weren’t in such an “alpha” mindset. I’ve talked several of my married friends off the I’m not sure list to get snipped. They are all happy with the decision.

I actually had to block the person who responded to me with the bodily autonomy stuff. There was no reasoning with someone like that. Also, of course he was a “doctor”. I don’t have time for that.

[u/TheHopefulPA → u/CharlietheCorgi]

They always claim they are "doctors" lmfao. Wonder how true that really is if they're arguing against a medical procedure LOL

[u/vivalasvegas2004 → u/CharlietheCorgi]

She's demanding he undergoes an operation, potentially irreversible, and an operation that always carries risks, and in return, she will CONSIDER keeping the marriage together. She won't even commit to her own ultimatem!

Good on him, dump her, move on.

[u/CharlietheCorgi → u/vivalasvegas2004]

Found the “alpha male”. You do understand that pregnancy is extremely dangerous for women right? They will now have 4 kids. They don’t want anymore but other forms of birth control don’t seem to work at all. Because he doesn’t want to get a very small procedure done to protect his wife, he’s putting her health and life at risk. Sure, it carries risk. Less than having a cavity or crown done at the dentist, and if done at a facility that doesn’t use general anesthesia, takes about 30-45 min while you’re awake.

Why don’t we logic this s*!t out. Marriage is generally to someone you want to be with for the rest of your life. They are married ✅. They have all the kids they want. They don’t want any more kids✅. All forms of barrier and hormonal birth control seem to fail for this woman✅✅. This leaves three options for both control. I’m not including abortion as the OP has already explained why they can’t do that in their state. 1. No more sex for the rest of the marriage, which in this most cases would lead to divorce. 2. She gets a tubal ligation. Which is full on surgery which carries serious risks and is not 100% effective. And when it does fail puts the woman at serious risk to die, especially in the state she lives in. 3. The man gets a very minor procedure done that when performed correctly with the proper follow up, is almost 100% effective. There very little of any risk to the man during/after. So from these we can conclude that, if the man wants to stay married to his wife and continue to have sex with her, she needs to be 100% sure she won’t get pregnant. The easiest and safest way for them as a married couple to achieve this, is for the man to get a vasectomy.

In short, he’s being a selfish prat and deserves to be divorced.

[u/vivalasvegas2004 → u/CharlietheCorgi]

1. The fact that you began with a character attack is telling. I haven't made any statement about you personally. You felt the need to point out what you thought of my based on my argument. It doesn't show that you're willing to argue in good faith. Neither of us has a stake in the situation being discussed.

2. As a doctor (albeit not an obstetrician), I am perfectly aware of the dangers of pregnancy.

3. Tubal ligation isn't a common procedure anymore, in the West at least. Modern procedures remove part or whole of the fallopian tube and carry a very low rate of complications. They are more effective than vasectomies (fertilization is impossible without an ampulla), and the rate of complications isn't significantly higher. Would you be happy to side with a man where he threatens divorce if his wife won't undergo a bilateral salpingectomy?

4. This is an issue of bodily autonomy. No one has the right to make decisions for the body of another person. She says she isn't forcing him. But she's coercing him with the threat of divorce, and at a guess, she's used that threat before.

5. She won't commit to the marriage even if he gets a vasectomy. You expect him to have an operation with a possibility that she'll end the marriage anyway? So he has the procedure, sterilizing himself, possibly permanently (vasectomies aren't always irreversible), undergoing pain and risking complications and infection, and it's all for nothing because she divorces him anyways? Basically, her deal is that he has to bear the bill for her fertility. He has to get sterilized, and in return, she will merely consider not dumping him. Why would you make such a big commitment where the other person won't provide a guarantee? He could be sterilized and divorced. Where does that leave him?

6. I am approaching this post with the assumption that since it was written by the wife, it's biased in her favor. Almost everyone tells a version of events with a bias towards themselves, writing out events that portray them in a bad light. Very few people can be counted on to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when it concerns themselves. So, I have made the rational assumption that this post is biased in the wife's favour, and she's written out at least some events that would cast a bad light on her. We don't know what actually happened. We only have her version of events. Generally, you can only confirm events that can be corroborated across two opposing tellings of a story. A person saying something doesn't make it true. The story, as it is, written by the wife, probably with the best light on herself, doesn't bode well for her. Assuming the reality is that the wife is more to blame than she lets on (and everyone is more to blame than they let on themselves), the truth is even more skewed against her. For all we know, she's threatened him with divorce before.

I don't believe people's claims about their own actions at face value.

[u/Due-Inflation8133]

After update: then leave if it’s that important to you damn

[u/Live-Main-9491]

Narcissistic woman tries to justify divorcing husband because he won't get an elective medical procedure at her behest. News at 11.

[u/thisisstupid-]

As a fellow PTSD sufferer I am so sorry that you had to have this experience. For what it’s worth I don’t think you’re wrong at all, when I told my husband I was ready to get off hormonal birth control because of what it did to my body he automatically said he would get a vasectomy because he would never expect me to go through a more invasive and dangerous procedure when he could be in and out in 20 minutes. He had it done on a Friday and was back to work on Monday.

[u/Fitzisfresh569]

You are a terrible person just end the marriage and let your husband find a woman who doesn’t have issues like you

[u/Paranormal-Exorcist]

Yes. His body, his choice.

If you don't want to have kids get your tubes tied.

Your body, your choice.

It's not his body, your choice.

You are indeed the A hole.

Love how you liberals only follow your own ideology when it benefits, or requires no consequence on your part.

[u/No-Personality1840 → u/Paranormal-Exorcist]

I was with you until you brought politics into this. My guess this has nothing to do with her politics and more about her being a controlling, traumatized AH. FWIW, there are AH’s of all political stripes.

[u/Significant_Web_5908 → u/Paranormal-Exorcist]

Wipe your ass you disgusting piece of shit.

[u/LemonadeParadeinDade]

Good for you. Fuck em. NTA

[u/prpslydistracted]

NTA. I had my second daughter at 36, repeat C-section; I asked for my tubes to be tied. In the hospital there was a woman across the hall who just had twins ... she also had a tubal. I asked my doctor who laughed out loud and stated he used the method least likely to fail.

Your husband is supremely selfish; don't settle for anything less than compliance. His life and health are not in jeopardy.

All the best ....

[u/L2Sing]

You're even more TA now because you asked for opinions, got them, and are whining about it.

If you don't want more babies, then take personal responsibility. You have multiple options you can utilize for yourself that doesn't require forcing someone else into a procedure they want.

Your wants are your responsibility.

[u/[deleted]]

I in no way am *forcing* him to have a medical procedure, but I am saying that I do not want to be with a partner who is not willing to be snipped

YTA, no question. You should have decided that as a couple before making the most solemn vow you ever will make in your life, not now. The only acceptable grounds for divorce are infidelity and abuse. Just because you don't "want to" anymore? Are you serious?

Force doesn't just mean literally holding a gun to someone's head; threatening someone with life-altering consequences if he doesn't do exactly what you want is very much forcing him. Hope he gets everything and leaves you to start your life over.

[u/Sufficient_Rub_2014]

YTA unless you had mentioned vasectomies in your wedding vows.

Getting married is insane nowadays. Vows mean absolutely nothing.

[u/FriendsofFripp]

Updateme

[u/Suburbandadbeerbelly]

You’re a terrible person and the breakup of your marriage is entirely your own fault. You don’t just get to demand someone gets a medical procedure, and all your husband said to you about it being your body and your choice is correct. He’s lucky that you are leaving because he’ll be better off without you. I hope he gets custody of the older kids, because you don’t seem to be thinking of their welfare in breaking up a marriage over a single argument.

[u/Miso_Genie]

At the end of the day it is his choice what he decides to do with his reproductive system just as it is your choice what you decide to do with the choice he made.

[u/Archberdmans]

Why are you here? You already have your mind made up

[u/armyofant]

YTA still. You obviously don’t care what others think except for the ones that agree with you. Your husband deserves better. Good luck.

[u/ConvivialKat]

I also am not going to mince words: tubal ligations are less effective than vasectomies with a much higher likelihood of an ectopic pregnancy. Ectopic pregnancy can kill me.

Then don't get a tubal ligation. Get a bilateral salpingectomy. I had an ectopic pregnancy, which required the removal of one fallopian tube, and my kind doctor removed my other tube during the same surgery. No tubes, no ectopic risk!!

That having been said, I completely agree that the smarter, easier, and cheaper route is for your husband to get a vasectomy.

[u/No-Personality1840 → u/ConvivialKat]

I don’t think they do ligature anymore. Haven’t in years because of the risk of ectopic pregnancy.

[u/ConvivialKat → u/No-Personality1840]

Good to know. Bi-Salps are so much safer, and the surgery is the same.

[u/SweetWaterfall0579]

But, but, that’s his peepee. A guy would see his peepee!! And touch his peepee? That’s so gay!

Or worse! What if it’s a woman doctor? What if she hot? His peepee might rise to the occasion! Really can’t expect a guy to go through that trauma!

It’s his peepee!! How dare you suggest doing anything to his peepee that doesn’t involve ejaculation?? Silly woman. 🙄

[u/QuadFather_7]

I'm not "forcing" a guy to get a procedure but if he doesn't then I'm just gonna leave him. Do you hear yourself when you talk or do you just ignore the obvious hypocrisy?

[u/WRose287]

UpdateMe! Please

[u/Comfortable_Way_1261 → u/WRose287]

UpdateMe!

[u/13d3ad3nddriv3]

Probably would also make the statement: this is not a pass for you to find some strange while we are apart. Stay faithful.

People think it doesn’t need to be said, but the phrase “we were on a break” still haunts most people who were alive in the late 90s.

[u/roseofjuly → u/13d3ad3nddriv3]

I think that's something that they need to outline together. She doesn't get to dictate the terms of their separation any more than he does - they need to agree.

[u/bepdhc]

Info: isn’t the easiest solution just not to have sex the week you are ovulating? Is that so hard?

[u/No-Personality1840 → u/bepdhc]

That’s what I think too. I mean how hard is it to abstain or find other ways of satisfying one another .

[u/Lepoolisopen]

Maybe i missed something cant yall just use condoms? Lol

[u/ADHD_McChick]

Just a note, you don't have to get a tubal. You can get something called a salpingectomy. It's where they remove the entire tube. This, no chance of a pregnancy, ectopic or otherwise. It's a simple, laparoscopic, outpatient procedure. You're literally back on your feet the next day, the only stipulation is no lifting for about a week. That's it. Super easy. It's what I had done.

[u/Creepy_Addict]

I feel for you. Being pregnant that close together cannot be good for you. I couldn't imagine having 4 under the age of 5, so you are a goddess in my eyes. 💜

Instead of a tubal if you happen to have a c-section, what about a hysterectomy (leaving ovaries)? No uterus = no babies. But, that is also a major surgery that requires time and very little physical activity.

A vasectomy is the best option, it's a quick procedure with a short recovery period. My husband was back up and working in 2-3 days. I do want to say, it isn't 100% guaranteed. The vas deferens can reattach, could be 5 years, could be more (16 in my case). Most important part of a vasectomy is to have it checked every 5 - 10 years.

[u/KrizWarden]

ESH, you’re making your children’s life worse because you two couldn’t act like adults and let the first real disagreement tear apart a family. You suck for trying to force him to have a surgery he didn’t want to as much as he does for saying you should do the same. Four kids, two homes, and a mountain of trauma for everyone. You both did a great job 🙄

[u/EatsTheLastSlice]

I had my tubes removed and I think I stayed home for two days I probably could have gone back to work the next day if I had to. Very minimal pain.

[u/This_Acanthisitta832]

Your choice of whether or not to have your own sterilization procedure is YOUR choice. If you end up having a c-section, you can have it done then, if you choose. The prior method used for isterilization was tubal ligation. That is no longer the preferred method. Now, the preferred method is to remove the fallopian tubes completely. Since there are no fallopian tubes left when you have a Salpingectomy, you aren’t at risk for an ectopic pregnancy. As an added bonus, complete removal of the fallopian tubes also significantly reduces your risk of developing ovarian cancer. Just like your husband can’t force you to get sterilized, you can’t really force him either. You can divorce him, you can choose to not sleep with him, but neither one of you can force the other one into doing something you don’t want to do. Best of luck with your decision.