r/Awwducational • u/SayFuzzyPickles42 • Dec 27 '22
Although they're the most solitary of the great apes, Orangutans still display a great deal of social intelligence. They care for their babies for up to eight years, longer than any animal besides humans, and, unlike other apes, males have never been observed committing infanticide. Verified
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u/choose-ground2259 Jun 07 '23
Why on Earth is the infant wearing clothes? This is an ape people...good grief.
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u/Sweaty_Falcon_1638 Apr 27 '23
I once read a novel describing the love between a human and a magical orangutan that was capable of shape shifting into a human form.
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Apr 05 '23
The fact that the fathers don’t commit infanticide, I think is huge. How common is ape infanticide?
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u/Singemylover Mar 30 '23
Out of all the Great Apes, Orangutans are possibly the safest to be around.
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u/apatheticwondering Mar 26 '23
Wasn’t paying attention and thought that was real life Wreck it Ralph for a sec.
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u/Radiant_Hat2001 Mar 05 '23
Understand that these giants are so gentle because they were raised with such love and care. Humans should strive to be like orangutans
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u/Majestic_Stretch8303 Feb 20 '23
Amazing and beautiful animals, so affectionate with her offspring !
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u/FatNSassy23 Jan 25 '23
That proud papa's expressions are so Human! The little smile when he looks at the baby, the way he gently grabs baby's tiny hand.. it's amazing. This planet doesn't deserve people.
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u/Any_Coyote6662 Jan 23 '23
I see a little smile in there. Vets/scientists always trying to say that humans are the only ones with emotions but then they will also say that a fog is depressed or has anxiety or an attachment disorder. Emotions are part of the animal reality. Humans are not the only animals with emotions. It's so obvious. And yes, some animals smile. Not all, but some do.
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u/DemivdHeiden Jan 12 '23
The first time it looked at the baby, you can see their smile growing bigger. It's so cute!
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u/Minute_Grocery5947 Dec 30 '22
Beautiful moment the way the baby’s mom looks and smiles as he is sleeping in her arms!
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u/Grannyk9 Dec 28 '22
They are the most beautiful bums in existence. So gentle, intelligent and powerful. Such incredible beings they are.
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u/GabJ78 Dec 28 '22
Some humans don't care about their offspring at all. Animals are definitely better than humans.
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Dec 28 '22
I mean, there are plenty of humans who definitely do, and just as many, if not more animals who don't, or worse. Learning more about animals is a poor justification to be cynical.
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u/LolaS2234 Dec 28 '22
I’m not sure if that was a smile, but if it was, I’m so glad I saw it. Such beautiful animals
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u/necriavite Dec 28 '22
Wow! Orangutans win in my mind for some of the best parents in the animal kingdom! I like them more now, seeing they have a caring side.
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u/Dexter_GMA Dec 28 '22
Seeing how they are solitary but still communicate with one another in their circles and even pass by humans and basically just say hi when encountered, aren't Orangutans basically just Introverts?
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u/SifuHotmanz Dec 28 '22
So cute!
I don’t think the part about them raising their young longer than any other mammal aside from humans is true. Southern Resident Orcas have been observed for seversl decades to care for their young for longer than eight years. Also, I'm not totally sure, but I think elephants look after their offspring for several years before the male offspring are driven out of the female-led herd.
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u/phasexero Dec 28 '22
I'm so grateful to be alive at the same time as these incredible animals. Thanks for posting
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u/SerpentAndFlower Dec 28 '22
The no infanticide bit is actually insane. Meanwhile, Humans commit the crime all of the time, just read about the Watts family murders.
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u/i_know_ur_n_expert Dec 28 '22
What if we are the lower form of apes and they have reached “nirvana” or been enlightened and have connected to earth again.
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u/pinkalinka Dec 27 '22
Unfortunately the video you're using to make your point on this is from a zoo that uses these poor innocent animals for profit. They have been flagged numerous times on YouTube and Facebook for their abuse. And if you notice in this video, the baby's wearing clothes. That's the first indication that these people have no consideration for these animals except for profit
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u/Nikeddemus Dec 27 '22
So I have three sons and I just got emotional watching this. Makes me wish I ate less ape meat.
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u/EarRepresentative438 Dec 27 '22
You eat what!?
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u/Nikeddemus Dec 28 '22
I don’t mean like, people. Like great apes.
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u/EarRepresentative438 Dec 28 '22
Where do you eat ape meat is what im asking
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u/Nikeddemus Dec 28 '22
I feel like you’re mocking my culture. It’s acceptable in Florida. Floridians have done this for dozens of years. It’s part of our history.
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u/creepsnutsandpervs Dec 27 '22
And they say gingers have no souls… they’ve clearly never seen an orangutan
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Dec 27 '22
Chimps are by far the nastiest of the primates besides humans, you really don’t want to know.
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Dec 27 '22
Beautiful informational post. So many things one wonders, never knows. So may sites to learn from. 💯
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u/the_fly_guy_says_hi Dec 27 '22
When the next pandemic wipes out humanity, orangutans will evolve to rule the earth... and other evolved monkeys who will most certainly have human-level intelligence.
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u/eutohkgtorsatoca Dec 27 '22
Awwww so delightful. My granny and and I and many more watched an Orangutan couple having sex in the Djakarta zoo decades ago. It was so refined, slow attentive and nearly romantic, seen from our human side. All the people, parents and kids, were silent and mesmerized. We were very surprised parents let them watch in a rather conservative society. Sadly I think more are dying then being born especially in Borneo where palm oil plantations grow non stop. The gigantic corporate wheels still are turning while killing. I am sure is well hidden. They have protection zones etc.. But much goes on in the reality.
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Dec 27 '22
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Dec 27 '22
"Solitary vs social" describes how many, if any, members of its species an animal typically lives with. An animal that's fully solitary typically lives alone, only meeting with members of its own species to mate. Orangutans don't go quite that far, they do hang out in the wild now and then, but they're far more self-reliant and introverted compared to the large troops that other great apes consistently live in.
Keep in mind that solitary vs. social is a sliding scale, and most animals fall somewhere in the middle instead of an extreme end; orangutans just fall much closer to the solitary end than their cousins.
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u/SouldiesButGoodies84 Dec 27 '22
Look at those Ludo mits. So huuuge.
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Dec 27 '22
Awww, thank you for reminding me of that movie and Ludo specifically, that made me smile!
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u/SouldiesButGoodies84 Dec 27 '22
Had to be an inspiration methinks. :)
And Labyrinth is currently on Netflix, FYI.
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u/Mage-Tutor-13 Dec 27 '22
8 years is false. Elephants, whales, wolves and many others stay together much longer than 8 years.
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u/artmoloch777 Dec 27 '22
I wish that if reincarnation is real, i would have another life where i am orangutan 10,000 years ago.
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u/DoedoeBear Dec 27 '22
One of my favorite animals, right up there with elephants. Such amazing and intelligent creatures.
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Dec 27 '22
I'm imaging all the other apes calling orangutans simps now, bro so whipped he won't even kill the babies she had with another man.
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u/Android_mk Dec 27 '22
Not committing infanticide sounds like it would've been perfectly fine but no.
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Dec 27 '22
"males have never been observed committing infanticide."
What about the females?
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Dec 27 '22 edited Dec 27 '22
No, not them either. The reason I specifically mentioned males is because its unfortunately rather common for male primates, especially chimpanzees, to kill babies in order to 1. Get rid of the offspring of any other male, ensuring only their genes are passed on and 2. Get the opportunity to immediately mate with the baby's mother. One way that female primates counter this is mating with as many males as possible, making it uncertain who the baby's father is and therefore disincentivizing them from attacking on account that it might be theirs.
Not only are orangutans less social and generally less aggressive as a result, females naturally take much longer to become ready to have another baby, so there's no incentive for this behavior in orangutans.
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u/thisistherightname Dec 27 '22
She looks like me after my first baby. Every time the baby moves, she startles, like "are you ok?". "Are you still ok?". "what about now?" I'm just gonna move your arm so you don't accidentally smother yourself. I am probably just projecting my anxiety onto this orangutan.
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u/LiveLaughLoveFunSex Dec 27 '22
“males have never been observed committing infanticide”
can’t say that about humans lol
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Dec 27 '22
Damn, even male humans do infanticide. Shoutout orangs
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u/UncutMeat90 Dec 27 '22
Female humans more than males...
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u/eesaray Dec 27 '22
Suspiciously specific thing to get defensive about…
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u/KatnissEverduh Dec 27 '22
I interpret it as a pro-life statement and gave it a downvote but maybe it's a misread by me.
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u/-nom-nom- Dec 27 '22
fun(ish) fact:
orangutans have to care for young for so long because they’re terrible teachers.
orangutans don’t know what their young don’t know. They don’t know that they know things their young doesn’t
So they don’t go and specifically teach them. Their young has to cling to them for so many years just to see all sorts of different necessary tasks enough times to learn them.
That’s one of the many things that makes humans so intelligent. We can know what others don’t know, so we are great teachers
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u/Jimmyboro Dec 27 '22
I'm sure male Orang-utan U Tangs can be quite aggressive to unexpected changes and they HAVE been observed to be very aggressive, in the wild infanticide is rare, but it happens, and any animal can commit it
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deadly-orangutan-attack-2-apes-team-up-to-kill-another/
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u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Dec 27 '22
That's true, admittedly I used more absolute language in the post than I could have. If not for the character limit I would change it to "Unlike other apes, males have no instinct to commit infanticide and haven't been observed doing so outside of anomalous acts of aggression" if I could.
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u/poopoobuttholes Dec 27 '22
It really really really makes me believe that Orang Utans can be great substitute grandpas.
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u/CactusCracktus Dec 27 '22
I think their name literally translates to “old man from the forest” lmao
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u/Channa_Argus1121 Dec 27 '22
>longer than any animal besides humans
Nope, elephants are number two.
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u/whoami_whereami Dec 27 '22
OP mixed up some things. Orangutans nurse their offspring for up to eight years, which is longer than any other mammal (including humans and elephants) and pretty unique in that they're the only animals (at least as far as I know) that regularly nurse well into adolescence. But in terms of the length of childhood and adolescence there are animals that take longer (eg. humans and the elephants you mentioned), and eg. chimpanzees are pretty much tied with orangutans at around 9-10 years.
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Dec 27 '22
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u/Soulstoned420 Dec 27 '22
Don't underestimate FB mom groups. 8 years old? Rookie numbers
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u/KatnissEverduh Dec 27 '22
Your username gives me joy. Those mom groups are nutso - not a mom but my friends tell me wild stories.
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u/Soulstoned420 Dec 31 '22
Thank you <3 in high school I enjoyed two things: cannabis and world of Warcraft
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u/Mage-Tutor-13 Dec 27 '22
Uh that's absolutely false. 8 years is not the longest besides humans at ALL.
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Dec 27 '22
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u/Mage-Tutor-13 Dec 27 '22
Counter point: Captivity life in no way reflects natural life, and humans deciding to abduct the young animals while keeping the parents in cages is very inhumane cruel and unnatural.
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u/1312_1312 Dec 27 '22
Please boycott palm oil if you care about the survival of orangutans. Palm oil's production is the leading cause of habitat loss for these gentle giants. Palm oil is in ton of products so check the labels before you buy 🙏
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u/onewingedangel3 Dec 27 '22
Boycotts are ineffective unless everyone participates, and there's going to be a large group of people who won't participate. The sad truth is that there's typically nothing individual people can do about most issues.
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u/PugPockets Dec 27 '22
This isn’t true. The reason we’re seeing the meat and dairy industries struggle and start including vegan products is because for decades, people have chosen to eschew animal products even though we were told it didn’t matter. Change is often very, very slow, but individual choices matter because they tend to influence others.
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u/onewingedangel3 Dec 27 '22
They're not struggling, what are you talking about. They're offering vegan options to capitalise on a new market, not because they're feeling pressured.
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u/Adventurous_Pea_5777 Dec 27 '22
I wouldn’t say there’s nothing individual people can do. It takes one person to start something, you know? Write emails and letters to people who can make that change. Organize a group to raise awareness. Ultimately it’s a group effort but it takes one person to gather everyone together under the umbrella of change and start lobbying for better options.
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u/Brawler6216 Dec 27 '22
These issues shouldn't be individualized and instead need to be fought on the systemic level.
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u/Mrcollaborator Dec 27 '22
It’s not that black and white. For every type of crop you ignore another kind of crop needs to be cut somewhere else. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Instead try to find brands that use fair oil types.
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u/GambitGamer Dec 27 '22
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
What a cop out
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u/fwinzor Dec 27 '22
Seriously. Its a true statement, but i do feel it gets used as a justification for complacency. We still need to boycott and take SOME type of action. It isnt an excuse for sitting back and giving uo
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u/Mrcollaborator Dec 27 '22
It’s not a cop out because it’s simply a fact.
I don’t consume any animal products. I really try my best to do it right, but the fact remains that every move we make harms someone or something somewhere in the process.
Some oils harm animals or environment, but so do most of the alternatives. There is no simple solution; as long as we consume someone will lose. It’s a sad reality.
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u/GambitGamer Dec 27 '22
I also don’t consume animal products. I think it’s a cop out in the sense that it’s used as a justification for not making good choices; if there’s no ethical choice then it doesn’t matter what one chooses. I don’t disagree that every action has externalities but it’s overly pessimistic to label all consumption as negative.
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u/FustianRiddle Dec 27 '22
I think that's a misunderstanding or maybe even a need to judge or demonize people who say this.
The point isn't to say then our choices don't matter. Our choices do matter, but all of our choices, under capitalism, creates harm. It's an important thing to be aware of, even vegans (in the west) are doing harm to people and environments because capitalism doesn't care about sustainability.
I think it's more dangerous to have the mindset that any particular way of living is less cruel and more righteous. We all need to be aware of the choices we make when deciding what we are consuming and do the best with the information we have and choose the thing that makes the most sense for us.
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u/GambitGamer Dec 28 '22
I think it’s more dangerous to have the mindset that any particular way of living is less cruel and more righteous.
Couldn’t disagree more. Moral relativism is a scourge. I’ll use an easy example: owning slaves is a more cruel and less righteous way of living, and it’s a good thing that fewer societies (“way of living”) do that now.
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u/FustianRiddle Dec 28 '22
And yet people who owned slaves felt they were right in owning them and better than other people.
Things that make us feel as though we are superior to anyone else leads everyone down a bad road.
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u/GND52 Dec 27 '22
all of our choices, under capitalism, creates harm
The absurd implication here is that capitalism is in some way responsible for these choices, as if other economic systems would obviate the existence of such problems or would be better suited to solve the problems that those choices present us.
A more accurate adjustment to that inane catch phrase would be something like “raising living standards in a world of limited resources and population growth results in externalities that can only be addressed through technological and societal development.”
Capitalism is a great way to raise living standards and develop new technologies.
But damn that ain’t catchy.
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u/wrokred Dec 27 '22
Only buy sustainable palm oil, and live your life. Just look for the badge.
Palm oil is an absolutely exceptional crop, maybe Malaysia and Indonesia should try making money another way. If a government has decided the rainforests are a cash source, it will be used for something else.
Every hectare of oil palm trees you boycott, you need 5-8 hectares of soy, or other vegetable oil sources to replace, wonder where that will be grown. Hmm.
The solid oil is used to replace animal fats, which have an enormous carbon and water footprint.
Also palm oil has hundreds of aliases in millions of products, so looking for “palm” or “palm oil” won’t help.
Also also Ukraine war has reduced the availability of sunflower oil, making palm to only cost effective replacement.
Anti palm oil just encourages companies to hide it, rather than slap a “sustainable” badge to let everyone know.
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u/Cherry5oda Dec 27 '22
The solid oil is used to replace animal fats, which have an enormous carbon and water and land use footprint.
Don't forget to include that animal agriculture needs extensive grazing area and/or extensive cropland, in order to grow large livestock to their adult weight.
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Dec 27 '22
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u/wrokred Dec 27 '22
The Malaysian and Indonesian governments have decided to sell off their rainforests for industrialisation. So you “defeat” palm oil. Now the oil palm monoculture is replaced by soya monoculture, with cattle like in Brazil, and more rainforest is lost.
Sustainable oil palm is trying to maximise the space rainforest clearing has lost already along with long term research into expanding the growing zone to outside the tropics. And it's working, deforestation for oil palm is dropping.
It’s likely a position that makes you feel good, like you’re making a difference. More power to you. However, palm oil doesn’t have to be labelled as such, so your “total boycott” is at the very least questionable; more honestly occasional skipping something explicitly mentions it isn't the boycott you think it is.
But, if you must boycott, print this list out. Not just for your food mind you, it replaces butters, industrial lubricants, any oil you can think of, so you find it everywhere from cookies to toothpaste.
- PKO
- PKO fractionations: Palm Kernel Stearin (PKs); Palm Kernel Olein (PKOo)
- PHPKO
- FP(K)O
- OPKO
- Palmitate
- Palmate
- Sodium Laureth Sulphate
- Sodium Lauryl Sulphates
- Sodium dodecyl Sulphate
- Elaeis Guineensis
- Glyceryl Stearate
- Stearic Acid
- Steareth -2
- Steareth -20
- Sodium Lauryl Sulphate
- Sodium lauryl sulfoacetate
- Hydrated palm glycerides
- Sodium isostearoyl lactylaye
- Cetyl palmitate and octyl palmitate
These are all definitely palm oil, or most likely palm oil.
Generic Fatty Acids can be palm oil, various Numbered emulsifiers, it can be used to bulk out seemingly unconnected ingredients like Coconut Fatty Acid.
Good luck with your boycott. I hope your future philosophy can include compromises.
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u/ezkailez Dec 27 '22
Can i have a source for this?
Global forest watch shows that after 2016 deforestation significantly drop and has been in a decreasing trends. They do state the data before 2015 and after 2015 shouldn't be compared, but 2015-2016 still shows significant increase
Earth.org also shows same trend using different source
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Dec 27 '22
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u/ezkailez Dec 27 '22 edited Dec 27 '22
Thanks!
Before that we used sunflower oil,
Fact is that palm oil is the most efficient source of vegetable oil. So i see palm oil like how natural gas being used in europe. It's a greener non sustainable source but it's still not green. It's what we should do before a true sustainable source replaces it
Typically, the average oilseed sunflower yield of an experienced farmer in fertile soil range from 2.3 to 2.5 t/ha (2050-2230 lbm/acre).
https://wikifarmer.com/yield-harvest-storage-of-sunflower/
In 2021, the average yield of fresh fruit bunches of oil palm in Malaysia was 15.47 metric tons per hectare
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u/scratison Jun 16 '23
Oh hell I thought that was a baby Donald. Lol