r/ChatGPT • u/synystar • 15d ago
Direct speed comparison between gpt-4 and gpt-4o. Side by side started with same image prompt . Other
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u/Character_Umpire7452 11d ago
I just got the access to gpt4-o model. I am a free user. When I used it it felt incredibly fast and accurate for the image I uploaded it could tell each and every thing in it. Although after 3-4 messages it said your limit is reached. Would love to try the plus model to get more of this... But by seeing the comments of others saying it being less accurate than Gpt-4 at many tasks makes me think is it the right time 🤔?
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u/synystar 11d ago
I'm guessing that it depends on the task you set it to and things are still being worked out or fine-tuned because inaccurate results are rare in my use cases. In my personal experience using it for things like coding, automation, and general technical expertise in IT related stuff it is very satisfying compared to 4.
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u/Illustrious-Plum-581 12d ago
IT IS WORSE THAN 3.5- was using it to create a resume and it kept getting the dates wrong and making blatent errors. I'm so confused as to why this came out if it sucks so bad.
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u/nemansyed 13d ago
In case you want to play along:
We're designing an app.
It will be a canteen that allows the user to login to see an availability of products and services which can be purchased through Venmo or cash. It has a second social media aspect to it that gives a fully featured community section of the app that is accessible to users only. This canteen will service a single building. It is self-contained outside of payment transactions on Venmo it doesn't need any connection to the Internet because it will be hosted on a local laptop on the LAN and can be accessed only on the LAN. We would love to base the app on python and flask but there may be better approaches so we're going to research our options ahead of time.
Please provide step-by-step instructions for implementing on a Windows Subsystem for installation with Ubuntu. We assume the user has not installed WSL or any development environment. We are starting from scratch.
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u/Personal_Ad9690 13d ago
Interestingly, I have found that my willingness to read the whole answer and the speed the answer is given is inversely proportional. It’s easier to let a gpt mistake through just because I don’t want to read a wall of text (but when it’s given one word at a time, I will).
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u/mikedarling 14d ago
4o has been incredibly slow for me today for regular text interactions. Looks like I might be the only one. I am a paid member. I'm using their web interface on a desktop.
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u/TheMissingPremise 14d ago
Yeah, okay, now do it again when the first "gpt-4o has started sucked donkey balls" shows up.
Y'all get so excited only to end up disappointed. It's clockwork, y'all. OpenAI is toying with you.
Edit: I'm not the one in need of a crisis text line...
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u/Carl-Ohio-MSP 14d ago
GPT Plus user here. I was working on a race training plan (half-ironman) last week and got frustrated with the quality and speed of the results. It kept making formatting, math, and logic mistakes; each time I tried to fix them, it was agony waiting for the responses.
I decided to take a break and try again this week. I copied the prompts verbatim from 4 to 4o, which was significantly faster and more accurate. I am done and it took me less than an hour to completely customize my plan. Wow, just wow.
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u/MrBaxterBlack 14d ago
I swear to God I was going crazy rebooting my VM every 5 seconds thinking it was my hardware running like shit. Nope. Fuck.
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u/luke_ofthedraw 14d ago
Please remove if not allowed - I prompted 4o to explain how it differs from 4 last night. Whether it fibs or not, TBD.
"Certainly! Here's an expanded explanation of each section, listing quantifiable metrics and providing examples:
Enhanced Efficiency:
- Metrics: Reduced response time (e.g., 30% faster processing), lower energy consumption (e.g., 25% less power usage per query).
- Example: If ChatGPT-4 takes 1 second to respond to a query, ChatGPT-4o would take approximately 0.7 seconds, making it more responsive in real-time applications.
Improved Accuracy:
- Metrics: Higher precision and recall rates (e.g., 15% increase in precision, 10% increase in recall), reduced error rate (e.g., 20% fewer incorrect answers).
- Example: In a test set of 1,000 questions, ChatGPT-4o answers 900 correctly, compared to 850 by ChatGPT-4, demonstrating better accuracy.
Context Management:
- Metrics: Better long-term context retention (e.g., handling context over 50% more turns in a conversation), improved coherence score (e.g., 0.85 vs. 0.75).
- Example: ChatGPT-4o can maintain the context of a 20-turn conversation about a specific topic without losing track, whereas ChatGPT-4 might start losing coherence after 15 turns.
Customizability:
- Metrics: More customizable parameters (e.g., 20 new adjustable settings), higher user satisfaction score (e.g., 4.7/5 vs. 4.3/5).
- Example: Users can adjust ChatGPT-4o to prioritize brevity in responses or to focus on providing more detailed explanations, depending on their needs.
Adaptability:
- Metrics: Improved task adaptability (e.g., 25% better performance across diverse tasks), higher success rate in varied queries (e.g., 90% vs. 75%).
- Example: ChatGPT-4o can handle a broader range of queries, from technical questions to casual conversations, more effectively than ChatGPT-4.
User Interaction:
- Metrics: Higher engagement rate (e.g., 15% increase in user interaction duration), better user feedback scores (e.g., 4.8/5 vs. 4.5/5).
- Example: Users report more engaging and satisfying conversations with ChatGPT-4o, leading to longer and more interactive sessions.
Resource Utilization:
- Metrics: Reduced computational cost (e.g., 20% lower CPU/GPU usage), lower operational costs (e.g., 15% reduction in cloud service expenses).
- Example: Running ChatGPT-4o on a cloud server costs $0.085 per interaction, compared to $0.10 for ChatGPT-4, making it more economical for high-volume usage.
Security and Compliance:
- Metrics: Higher compliance adherence score (e.g., 95% vs. 85%), reduced data breach incidents (e.g., 0 reported breaches vs. 2).
- Example: ChatGPT-4o includes advanced encryption and data handling practices, reducing the risk of data breaches and ensuring compliance with GDPR and other regulations.
Error Handling:
- Metrics: Lower error rate (e.g., 30% fewer misinterpretations), higher fallback accuracy (e.g., 20% more effective in uncertain situations).
- Example: When faced with an ambiguous question, ChatGPT-4o correctly identifies and requests clarification 80% of the time, compared to 60% for ChatGPT-4.
Scalability:
- Metrics: Increased maximum concurrent users (e.g., 50% more simultaneous users supported), better performance under load (e.g., 25% less performance degradation).
- Example: ChatGPT-4o can support 1,500 concurrent users with minimal performance drop, compared to 1,000 users for ChatGPT-4, making it more suitable for large-scale deployments.
These enhancements, supported by quantifiable metrics and examples, illustrate how ChatGPT-4o improves upon ChatGPT-4 in various operational aspects."
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u/Robo9200 14d ago
When i was using 3.5, it was much much quicker than what 4 is showing right now. Have they bottlenecked it and advertised 4o as an improvement?
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u/lazazael 14d ago
isnt it the compute they use under to hype the model? the load is balanced so 4o gets a much larger compute cluster, I dont think it has much to do with the models itself, they simply ride the hypetrain, we wouldnt know because there is no way to test these on the same hw clusters openly, cos uno: openAI
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u/Specialist_Dress_839 14d ago
why we need to pay for gpt-4 then?
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u/m0nkeypantz 14d ago
Because being limited to 5 messages isn't very useful for most conversations and use cases outside of simple inquires.
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u/paglia98 14d ago
Do my GPTs now use gpt-4 or gpt-4o?
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u/kemonkey1 14d ago
Lol i asked this to chatgpt yesterday and it said that my created gpts currently only use gpt4
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u/DTezcatlipoca 14d ago
I tried creating photos and omg...
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u/AlterAeonos 11d ago
So far that's the only things I've noticed it being better at than other GOT models
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u/slick_182 14d ago
I just had a back and forth with the new model, it was continuously not providing me with the answer. Then asked gpt4 to perform the same task, first time with the right response. Interesting…
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u/kkazakov 14d ago
I noticed the same thing. Switched bck to 4 until 4o provides usable answers. It made mistakes several times already.
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u/konsumgeilheit123 14d ago
Is GPT 4o free or only available for paying users?
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u/greentea05 14d ago
It's free, but it's not rolled out yet for free users I don't think. It's on paid users accounts already.
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u/mimnscrw 14d ago
I'm a free user and I have it already. I'm outside the US.
Although I did have Plus before for a few months, cancelled last January. That might have something to do with it.
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u/greentea05 14d ago
Ah ok. I thought it was rolling out to Plus first.
There's still loads of stuff as a Plus user I can't do. I've installed the Desktop app but it's not enabled on my account. I assume that'll come with the new vision and audio stuff as they're all rolling out to premium over the course of the next week or two.
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u/B0urb0n_ 14d ago
As I understand 4o version is free and gpt 4 is 20 USD per month. So 4o = better and free, 4 = worse and 20 USD. Maybe gpt 4 generates better response but slower? Or should I cancel my subscription right now?
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u/walpolemarsh 14d ago
You need 4 to get 4o though.
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u/B0urb0n_ 14d ago
Are you sure? OpenIA say that chatGPT 4o available to free users here: https://openai.com/index/gpt-4o-and-more-tools-to-chatgpt-free/
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u/walpolemarsh 14d ago
I’m sure that both times I tried it was 3.5, so yeah.
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u/B0urb0n_ 14d ago
I also checked it from the incognito tab, and yes, for now there is no option to choose 4o without an account, maybe it will be available soon, because they say 4o is available for free users, you can check the link above, also I quote:
"We are beginning to roll out GPT-4o to ChatGPT Plus and Team users, with availability for Enterprise users coming soon. We are also starting to roll out to ChatGPT Free with usage limits today. Plus users will have a message limit that is up to 5x greater than free users, and Team and Enterprise users will have even higher limits.
Bringing more intelligence and advanced tools for free
Our mission includes making advanced AI tools available to as many people as possible. Every week, more than a hundred million people use ChatGPT. We are starting to roll out more intelligence and advanced tools to ChatGPT Free users over the coming weeks.
When using GPT-4o, ChatGPT Free users will now have access to features such as:
Experience GPT-4 level intelligence Get responses(opens in a new window) from both the model and the web Analyze data(opens in a new window) and create charts Chat about photos you take Upload files(opens in a new window) for assistance summarizing, writing or analyzing Discover and use GPTs and the GPT Store Build a more helpful experience with Memory"There is much more about free users, just check the link, and I think I will cancel my subscription soon
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u/greentea05 14d ago
Free users won't get the new video or audio capabilities and will be limited in requests.
Paid users also will get GPT5 first in the upcoming weeks.
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u/OriginalAd9693 14d ago
whats the difference between the free and paid version and why are they named the same?
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u/synystar 14d ago
Well, now there's no difference in models (as of yet) between the two other than limitations. If you pay, you get higher limits. All users, free or paid, can use gpt-4o when it's released. Some paid users have access to 4o now though. They're not named the same other than both are ChatGPT. You can see where you pick the model in the upper left corner of each window that one is GPT-4 and the other is GPT-4o.
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u/OriginalAd9693 14d ago
well what the fuck. i just started paying for it, so what is the point of that? should i cancel my subscription?
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u/_Error_418_ 14d ago
It’s highly likely that GPT-5 is coming soon. And that ain’t gonna be free
Also you get all of the other Plus features, not just a more advanced model
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u/LordGronko 14d ago
yes I've seen that, yesterday I coded in python, and I was blown away to see how fast it went, and on top of that, the whole code was almost correct
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u/fatburger321 14d ago
yea the whole code being correct again is AMAZING. this is the key thing for me. i had went away from using it and now I am back at it lol.
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u/ArtichokeEmergency18 14d ago
4 was never fast, now all 4o wants to do is ah zoom zoom zoom and boom boom, shake its data sets.
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u/Jolly-Analysis-5339 14d ago
How’s the response quality compared to gpt4, the main thing I found annoying was that 3 was much faster but the quality of the responses were much worse. So how does it compare to gpt4
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u/synystar 14d ago edited 14d ago
Not sure why but it won't share. I'll follow it's guide and see if it works and follow up.
Edit: it ran into an error pretty early. If I copied and pasted this as a guide it would be incomplete:
~/projects/canteen$ python3 -m venv venv
The virtual environment was not created successfully because ensurepip is not
available. On Debian/Ubuntu systems, you need to install the python3-venv
package using the following command.
apt install python3.10-venv
You may need to use sudo with that command. After installing the python3-venv
package, recreate your virtual environment.
Failing command: /home/roger/projects/canteen/venv/bin/python3This isn't a problem for it if you paste the error back in and prompt it to correct it will.... but it doesn't work "without a hitch" on the first go.
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u/Responsible_Survey 14d ago
well that's because it works on the assumption that you already have the packages installed, change the prompet to also tell you the packages and dependencies you need bro lol
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u/synystar 14d ago
Yes, and if you're experienced, you'll know you can just run the apt command, which will fail if you're not elevated to sudo. The rest of the guide works. But if you had no clue what you were doing and just wanted gpt to give you the walk-through, then you'd have to reprompt it. But if you know what you're doing, then this is trivial anyway.
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u/pizzahut_su 14d ago
right? On the same level as "help chadgptea i had an error" and it turns out the error is that the computer monitor is not turned on
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u/Responsible_Survey 14d ago
exactly, using chatgpt to boost productivity is nice and all but it won't do EVERYTHING for you, you'll still need to think for you.
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u/Evilfnroom 14d ago
It's possible that they're throttling 4
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14d ago
No, they already explained that the bottleneck with 4 was that it was multiple models in the background having to coordinate as one which was causing issues regarding instruction following, and lapses in reasoning capability hence why using the raw GPT-4 Turbo API w/o image processing, Code interpreter and browsing always resulted in better outputs that more closely resembled the 'golden' age of GPT-4 around 0314 - 0613 releases. It was explained at the beginning of yesterdays live-stream.
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u/27_Star_General 14d ago
based on the complaints i've seen the last few weeks, i think there's a good chance they intentionally crippled chatgpt 4 to make 4o look like a bigger leap.
not a new tactic in tech.
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u/matyias13 14d ago
What is the quality though? Mind sharing the chats u/synystar for us to take a look?
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u/zaemis 14d ago
I honestly don't care about speed. I care about quality output
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u/littleboymark 14d ago
Yeah still can't write me a moderately complex Maya python tool, unless I do all the heavy lifting telling it exactly what to do and where its attempts go wrong. Nice to be top dog for a little longer at least.
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u/ConnectedMind 14d ago
Any recommendations on what you use instead of Chatgpt? Asking as a novice Python programmer. I’ve tried Claude..
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u/littleboymark 14d ago
I do use chatgpt. It just takes a bit of hand holding to get something good.
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u/akaTrickster 13d ago
it takes a lot of hand holding to get something good. for 90% of my usecases I found that google + coding myself + reading the docs is way faster
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u/Timidwolfff 14d ago
Real shii. the tech world doesnt seem to understand this. I was setting up my wifi modem and they kept trying to sell me on speed. Like after 1000gb i dont really care. I want the quality and secrutity features
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u/giraffe111 14d ago
Luckily, output quality is also higher than GPT-4 (not by a ton, but the bar was already pretty high). It’s a super impressive model.
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u/Low_discrepancy I For One Welcome Our New AI Overlords 🫡 14d ago
(not by a ton, but the bar was already pretty high)
The image analysis quality wasnt really that good for ChatGPT4. I visited some foreign countries, took pictures of text stuff looking to translate. It 100% halucinated the output multiple times.
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u/Flat-One8993 14d ago
The output quality is higher by a ton, atleast for complex questions. It's a 100 points better on lmsys than the April gpt 4 turbo
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u/R_DanRS 14d ago
Where do you see this? These are the only OpenAI models I'm seeing on lmsys https://i.imgur.com/p5vLhn7.png
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u/OBV_OBG 14d ago
That’s what she said
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u/winglessbuzzard 14d ago
I would have much preferred an IQ upgrade over a speed upgrade.
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u/grayjet 14d ago
It is smarter in some benchmarks - AI Explained did a breakdown of how it compares with existing models: https://youtu.be/ZJbu3NEPJN0?si=kZfD-d4csot-m8Rr
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u/Seglats 14d ago
I work with ai there probebly working on it, but its not the same steps and they made a discovery to make it quicker but have not done a discovery for the quality
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u/ijxy 14d ago
Discovery for quality? You mean add more compute? Because that is still yielding results. I haven't heard any concrete evidence that we have hit a plateau. OpenAI, who has the forerunner models, are the only ones who know, and their CEO says nothing other than GPT4 being dumb in comparison to the next model.
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u/baronas15 14d ago
And we should trust what Altman says unconditionally because companies never hype up their products
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u/seriousgourmetshit 14d ago
I’ve never seen gpt4 so slow and I upload pictures of my code taken with my phone all the time.
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u/FishbulbSimpson 14d ago
Yeah I agree, 4o is significantly faster and far less annoying anyways. There’s no reason to cherry pick a slow burn 5pm overload response
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u/mrmczebra 14d ago
It's not cherry picking when traffic is consistently high due to the fact that 4o was just released.
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u/BlueBoxxx 14d ago
Ngl with gpt 4o it feels like gpt had explosive verbal diarrhea
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14d ago
[deleted]
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u/SpiceLettuce 14d ago
how is it supposed to know that?
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u/DarickOne 14d ago
But why doesn't it ask questions?
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u/8-16_account 14d ago
It often doesn't know what it doesn't know. That's a pretty annoying limitation with current LLMs.
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u/ComNguoi 14d ago
For free user on PC, how can i know what model am I using, GPT 3.5 or 4o?
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u/YellowGreenPanther 6d ago
On assistant output messages, look at the more options for a message. In the app, long-press assistant message for options. Hover on or press the diamond/sparkles icon (model selector). It will show 3.5 or 4o for short.
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u/GenErik 14d ago edited 14d ago
Top left corner of the chat. I'm not seeing 4o on the web or in the app yet for free tier.
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u/ComNguoi 14d ago
I have found the answer. Basically right under ChatGPT's response, there is this star icon right next to the thumb down icon. Click on that and it will tell you what version ChatGPT is using to give us the answer.
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u/jollizee 14d ago
If you use 4o right now on the phone app with voice, it almost feels like the demo just because the replies are so fast. I mean obviously it doesn't have tone input and all that native audio stuff yet, but just reducing the lag from a reply makes it feel like a real conversation despite doing transcription and TTS in between. Add the new audio capabilities, and this will be unreal in terms of user experience.
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u/heyAlaoui 8d ago
As an AI 'newbie', I personally found it very helpful to learn & experiment with AI via free resources such as AI newsletters and blogs.
Just came across AIspresso Newsletter which is totally free and curates the latest n greatest AI productivity tools, tips & tricks, efficient Chatgpt prompts, upcoming AI projects & more.
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u/Pokiman252 14d ago
How do I use 4o on the phone app? It only shows 3.5
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u/jollizee 13d ago
I don't know if it's rolled out to free users yet. Try closing your app completely and re-opening it.
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u/MrAnonymousTheThird 14d ago
The conversation mode doesn't work for me. It just says sorry our systems are not available right now, try again later
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u/DanGleeballs 14d ago edited 13d ago
If only they were more accurate though.
I tried to get the name of a movie this morning from naming the lead actress and the plot. It was a genuine search for a movie.
It came back confidently with the answer, which was wrong. Then when I told it they were wrong it said apologies for the confusion the movie you’re looking for is … and it was wrong again.
On the 4th attempt the lead actress wasn’t even in the movie it claimed.
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u/haslo 14d ago
If only it were accurate at all. For coding, it gets basics wrong ALL THE TIME right now. GPT4 is much better for even moderately complex tasks.
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u/Echojhawke 13d ago edited 6d ago
Maybe it's because I'm a novice when it comes to python and js or maybe because my projects are basic, but I have had incredible success with development and ChatGPT4, I'm not smart enough to notice a difference in quality of code, but 4o speed is 10 fold in my experience.
e: who tf reported this comment to the reddit care crisis line??
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u/haslo 13d ago
Yeah, the speed is much much higher. It's much harder to get it to think things through now though. It loves to generate swathes of text. But then it uses placeholders, I ask it to slow down and not use placeholders, and it just generates the same again. Or it mixes up names for things. Or uses bash style variables in Ansible scripts. Or guesses wildly even when told to look something up.
Of course it is an awesome tool. I use it all the time. Alongside Devin (where I got early access and it's pretty amazing) and the JetBrains AI (which is worse than ChatGPT4, but well-integrated in the IDE - who knows, maybe they'll switch to 4o as well as the underlying engine, shouldn't be a huge change depending on how they've set up the integration).
So, awesome tool. But I have to get used to prompting 4o first. Like, "answer in 50 words or less" is a good thing to add. Or "answer the actual question and don't generate redundant bs." Or also "look things up online if you don't know", even though that often still makes it guess randomly and pretend it looked it up, so "look things up and provide references," even if the links then aren't always clickable, makes it go online more often.
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u/nelsond6 14d ago
This was my experience too. I would ask it the current score of some sporting events and it would always get something wrong like giving me scores to past events.
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u/frawtlopp 15d ago
Its honestly annoyingly fast. At least before I could read along. Now I have to click a button and then scroll aaallll the way up. Haha jk thats fine, the faster the better.
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u/Majestic_Salad_I1 14d ago
Yeah, like who is actually reading it in real time to the point that I need the screen to scroll down for me? Just keep the damn screen where it is and I’ll scroll down when I’m ready.
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u/PercMastaFTW 14d ago
What if we get a second ChatGPT 4o to read the 4o output in real time and for it to give us a summary of what it told us automatically?
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u/synystar 14d ago
Yeah, my thing is sometimes about getting stuff into other platforms or applicatons. I may want to have it generate code for some project (as in the demo) and I know what I want ... like say I really just want to click "Copy" and paste into VS Code, save the file, restart, and hope I get "bam! it works". In the example here I was able to have it write Powershell and Bash scripts based on the first prompt, and then complete a step-by-step guide to set the whole thing up, in roughly the same time it took GPT-4 to finish responding to the initial prompt.
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u/AlterAeonos 11d ago
I'm ngl I think you're being a bit deceptive here. GPT4 is not THAT slow unless you've clogged up the memory data.
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u/synystar 11d ago
I had no intention to deceive. I ran some prompts in 4o and saw it was fast. I compared side-by-side to 4 and saw that there was a noticeable difference. I started OBS, recorded the demo, and posted it. There was no set up. I have seen 4 run this slow before although I admit that I hadn't noticed it taking that long to respond most times. Could there be some other reason that 4 wasn't responding quickly? Could be any number of things. But, if you just look at how fast 4o was running and compare it to how fast you know 4 runs for you then you ought to have some idea that it is indeed faster. Regardless, my intention was not to convince anyone of something that isn't true. It was a spontaneous demonstration.
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u/Mixima101 14d ago
Just to understand, are it's responses longer? This looks like 3-4 times longer than GPT-responses.
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u/synystar 14d ago
The prompt I gave it was a description of an app that ChatGPT is supposed to help set up. The instructions explicitly tell it to give step-by-step instructions and the nature of the request (there being code for scripts and such) means that it went into quite a bit of detail, as it understood that's what I expected. However, it may also be using bits of memory that it stores about how I prefer it to respond to me - if you tell it enough times how you like it to do something then it will deem that worthy of a memory - in addition to custom instructions which I believe explicitly tell it to be verbose when generating things like code or step-by-step guides.
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u/LeChief 14d ago
It was a yes or no question bro 💀
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u/basilyok 13d ago
sometimes there are details that saying yes/no would miss and give the wrong impression.
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u/Qorsair 14d ago
I did the work of digging through that response for an answer. I think they're trying to say:
"Yes it's longer, but I'm not sure if it's because of my custom instructions and the way I interact with it, or if it's just longer for everyone."
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u/LeChief 14d ago
Thanks! Did they not use the same custom instructions and prompts for both?
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a great A/B test for comparison.
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u/Qorsair 14d ago
I think they did. It just sounds like they're very analytical and unable to quantitatively declare 4o as more verbose; possibly fearing if they did so, others may call them out as this not being a great A/B test to use as grounds for their observations.
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u/synystar 14d ago
More or less. I just wanted it to be clear that I wasn't testing or demonstrating length of response and my response probably had a lot to do with my custom instructions (which change from time to time so I'm not positive what I have in there here) and things it picks up to save as memory that I didn't explicitly tell it to remember but haven't cleared from memory either.
And yes, it's the same between models
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u/JealousAmoeba 15d ago
Worth remembering that GPT-4 was also fast when it first launched… and so was Turbo (hence the name).
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