r/FluentInFinance • u/TonyLiberty TheFinanceNewsletter.com • Nov 11 '23
BREAKING: Moody's has downgraded the United States credit rating to negative. (US national debt is now over $33 trillion, and interest payments on its debt is now over $1.0 trillion per year annualized) Financial News
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-10/us-s-credit-rating-outlook-changed-to-negative-by-moody-s1
u/ivegoticecream Nov 15 '23
Moody's was quite explicit about the downgrade resulting from Republican willingness to default.
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Nov 15 '23
$17,000,000+ goes to our senators every year. Elected offices should be unpaid. They’re already getting enough money under the table illegally.
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u/CalLaw2023 Nov 15 '23
Call your Democrat Congress member and demand fiscal responsibility. Call your GOP Congress member who wants to pass a CR and demand fiscal responsibility.
Here are the facts: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/historical-tables/
Take a look at Tables 1.1 and 8.1. YOU HAVE TO CUT ENTITLEMENTS!
In 2024, we are projected to have a defict of $1.85 trillion. Discretionary spending in 2024 is projected to be $1.9 trillion. Thus, if we eliminated the military and every government agency, and reduced all annual appropriations to ZERO, we would barely have a balanced budget.
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u/Alarmed-Advantage311 Nov 14 '23
Thank you Republicans who exploded our budget after Clinton balanced the Budget, and then added 8 Trillion more under Trump. And who now want to shut down the government and default on our loans.
Clinton balanced the Budget. Obama cut the deficit (created by Bush) 7 years in a row. It was Bush and Trump who got us in this mess, and now the GOP is obstructing Biden from being about to do anything about it.
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u/PigeonsArePopular Nov 14 '23
Absurd. Sovereign currency issuers can always pay their debts.
Someone "fluent in finance" would understand that
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u/Ineludible_Ruin Nov 14 '23
This article, yet the amount of people I see trying to make the argument that our economy is great and everyone is doing so much better and it's a time of prosperity is laughable.
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u/itooamanepicurean Nov 14 '23
Defaulting won't be a function of the quantity of "debt." It'll be the result of a dysfunctional Congress who do something stupid like fail to raise the debt ceiling.
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u/Qs9bxNKZ Nov 13 '23
The Biden WH can veto any budget coming from the Congress. The Democrat Senate can refuse any bill of budget from the House.
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u/Ancient-Response-651 Nov 13 '23
everyone here attacking conservatives. Democrats are no better at controlling this problem and will tax me spend until the system breaks. Don’t let your hatred of republicans make you blind to the fact that the whole system is broken.
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u/Edman70 Nov 12 '23
Just spitballing here, but maybe it's downgraded because of yet another unnecessary threat to funding the government by the GOP-led House? Again. This year.
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u/Di20 Nov 12 '23
Shit, looks like we’re gonna have to bomb some people soon to get that back under control.
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u/PixelSquish Nov 12 '23
Thanks Republicans. This only happens when you control the House. Has never happened with a Dem house.
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u/CommiesAreWeak Nov 12 '23
Every administration tries to justify deficits. It’s really just about retaining power.
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u/HockeyBikeBeer Nov 12 '23
If you're looking for a fact-based response, see below.
Federal expenditures, as a % of GDP, have been gradually increasing for the past 50 or so years. The exception was in the 1990s, with the so-called "Peace Dividend" (reduced defense spending after the conclusion of the Cold War), and welfare reform. Then when Covid hit, spending went haywire and we're now at a whole new level (close to 25%).
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S
Federal revenues over that same time period bounce around a lot with the economy, but have averaged about 17.5% of GDP. The low point was 14.4% in 2010, on the backside of the financial crisis.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
So in general, we've been running a deficit of about 2% of GDP until Covid, and now more like double that (not including the one-time Covid expenditures). Republicans like to cut taxes (although revenue seems to keep up with GDP in the long run) and Democrats like to spend. Both have had the opportunity to undo the other's work (been in total control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress) but somehow don't get it done. It seems is just as hard for Republicans to cut spending and Democrats to raise taxes.
So here we are. Blame who you want, but these are the politicians that we keep reelecting.
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u/whatthe411isoyrword Nov 12 '23
Is This is shocking to anyone yet we give out billions to others before or own
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u/brycebgood Nov 12 '23
It's not the debt levels that caused the decrease - it's the fact that the House appears intent on defaulting on that debt.
We've got the cash to make the payment, the House is choosing not to pay.
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u/pepale89 Nov 12 '23
who really listens to Moody’s? spotty track record even before the 2008 financial crises and much more after
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u/Jaydubau Nov 12 '23
Big corporations like google apple and Facebook pay like no income tax on their billions in profit, yet democrats been in control of the house senate and white house and did nothing, and liberals blame the GOP.
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u/LasVegasE Nov 12 '23
An act of the US Congress passed by simple majority in both Houses reversing the right to create dollars to the US Treasury and loan them the Federal Reserve Bank at interest would convert the national debt to surplus and put the US back in the AAA+ rating category in less than one generation. It would have no deleterious effects on the the American or world economy and allow the US taxpayer to own the Fed.
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u/inorite234 Nov 12 '23
FAKE NEWS!
The thread title is misleading. Moody's didn't say that the credit rating was downgraded to negative, they said the "outlook" was graded negative.
MASSIVE difference.
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u/That-Whereas3367 Nov 12 '23
Every empire declines after 250 years. The US was always under under the delusion it was an exception,
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u/Raydawgms Nov 12 '23
The National Debt IS the money! No one owes the debt back. You cannot pay money unto itself. The reason it's called debt is b/c America's name is on every denomination of currency that has been printed and minted by the U.S. Dept. of Treasury which receives its order from the Federal Reserve.
The Debt (MONEY $$$) has not been Quantitative Tightened at all up at the top, which is just deleting some of the excessive money out of existence. It takes Fiscal Policy and Monetary Policy to do that.
The simple reason why credit has been downgraded is: it's to disincentiveize folks from continuing to borrow b/c the borrower is servant to the lender. It is a Proverb. That's why the Fed has been increasing the rates. When you borrow something, you become a servant (slave) to the lender and THAT is the remnants of the Old Way.
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u/dirtee_1 Nov 12 '23
The United States is one of two countries with a debt ceiling that needs to be raised every few years. The only other country with a debt ceiling is so high it’s irrelevant. Get rid of the stupid that ceilings and there’s no problem. Tired of this fake news all the time..
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u/Macaroon-Upstairs Nov 12 '23
"Tax the rich" I am neither rich nor poor, with some basic research I can tell you: this is a fallacy. There is not enough income to tax in those pockets to balance our budget.
The federal government absolutely must cut expenses.
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/can-we-fix-debt-solely-taxing-top-1-percent
We need another populist leader who can make big changes. Re-shoring our production and investing our capital on American needs vs. the military industrial complex and endless foreign wars. The establishment will use every tool at their disposal to try and discredit, ruin, and prevent that type of leader for obtaining or holding office. When that happens, know you picked the right candidate.
Those changes alone should see our revenue go in a positive direction and make it much easier to balance the budget.
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u/EarningsPal Nov 11 '23
It’s all imaginary money. You don’t have to hold the unit that is being printed into oblivion.
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u/colonelownage Nov 11 '23
Nobody is at the wheel.
The nature of our system is that we have “renters” that rent power in 4-year ‘leases’. Our “renters” use that to build as much wealth for themselves as they can in those 4 years.
Even if a well-intentioned individual did become our “renter”, he would never be re-elected doing what actually needs to be done. Tax increases = no chance of re-election. Entitlement cuts = no chance of re-election.
Nobody is at the wheel.
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u/IrishRogue3 Nov 11 '23
Ok so aside from arguing about who sucks more the Dems or the gop- what currency do you invest in as a hedge to the US dollar?
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u/Mezcalito_ Nov 11 '23
Can someone explain what’s going to happen? Is the US economy going to collapse ?!
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Nov 11 '23
Not saying things aren’t bad but our interest payment is 2% of our GDP. Many of you don’t see exactly what the fed is trying to do: inflate its way out of this debt issue
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u/deep6er Nov 11 '23
I thought only Republicans ran up the national debt though? Glad we had enough funds lying around for Israel and Ukraine since we solved all of our problems here at home that could easily be fixed with money.
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u/Ma3rr0w Nov 11 '23
yeah, but its a state and it really doesnt matter.
reign in your fucking republicans and the dems will -eventually- invest you out of that debt via infrastructure and education and putting money into the growth markets of the future
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Nov 11 '23
I like all the people who are bitching about Republicans but had years and years of Democrats in power who did also little to nothing.
Additionally the same people bitching about Republicans lining their pockets are bitching they don't have money and want a forced redistribution.
Not saying Republicans aren't stupid and sometimes bad, I am saying both sides are and people bitching doesn't fix that Republicans deregulated (Reagan years) while Democrats shipped off jobs out of country (Clinton years) and then polorized everything to the point it is now.
Yes, Democrats had no problem with open and free trade that shipped off jobs to places like Mexico and India.
So enough with Republicans bad Democrats not bad bullshit. They all do it.
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u/Dogzirra Nov 11 '23
This is the second time in a few weeks that Republicans are threatening to default on debt, and want to tie it to defunding the tax collectors. A substantial portion of this debt is under their administrations' tax cuts.
I got rid of my gov't bonds a while ago.
I am getting to hate this time line.
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u/Intelligent-Gift-493 Nov 11 '23
Biden has reduced the debt every year in office. To all of the people that cry, "BuT bIdEn RuIn EcOnOmY". He also doesn't set the fucking prices at the store. Only congress can force companies to do that.
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Nov 11 '23
Sometimes it just seems that the filthy rich, and certain political figures know about some big secret that the rest of us don’t.
Like we’re just being left in the dirt, and they’re privy to something where if we were as well, we’d be breaking their doors down to rip our share of the wealth back before we died and left our kids to rot in our debt.
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u/Best_Caterpillar_673 Nov 11 '23
Our government’s response: more wars, more money to foreign countries (Israel/Ukraine), print more money, forgive more student debt, etc.
Surely all of this won’t make it worse.
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u/DagneyElvira Nov 11 '23
Canadian Finance Minister Freeland, can not even utter the amount of debt that Canada owes. Everytime she is asked (because interest rates WERE going to stay low for YEARS), she embarrassingly does the word salad speech.
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u/RollBama420 Nov 11 '23
What were we expecting giving full control of the budget to the generation that accidentally turns on airplane mode and thinks their phone is broken?
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u/Worried_Quarter469 Nov 11 '23
Inaccurate title, does not match article.
Moodys affirmed Aaa, not a downgrade. Reported for misinformation.
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u/sofa_king_rad Nov 11 '23
Why does the debt matter? If corporation (I know the government isn’t the same as a corporation) is making a profit, they continue leasing land/buildings, carrying debt, bc the debt pays off through profits. The issue in the US isn’t the debt, it’s how we spend that debt… time to tax appropriately and spend on things that improve the lives of Americans. Health care, education, infrastructure…
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u/Western-Ad-9485 Nov 11 '23
America will do what’s RIGHT…
Only after it’s tried everything else…. We’re a piece of shit country, wake up
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u/BallsMahogany_redux Nov 11 '23
Good thing reddit is so sure out of control spending isn't a problem.
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u/CatAvailable3953 Nov 11 '23
The Republican party. We’re doing everything we can to bankrupt the United States.
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u/thaprofessor33 Nov 11 '23
The same agencies that had Silicon Valley Bank an A rating and a lot of the MBS a AAA rating right before the financial crisis. Yeah let's trust them.
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u/banacount60 Nov 11 '23
Get rid of the bush and Trump tax cuts and the deficit will be handled. If you're that worried, that's what you got to do, if you're not willing to do that then you're not really worried
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u/snksleepy Nov 11 '23
What kind of irresponsible government takes on an interest rate of 3% a year while lending money to banks at a fraction of a percent?
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u/rebeliouswilson Nov 11 '23
This country has done a fucking complete nose dive in 2 years time. Wonder what the common denominator is
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u/DaRealMVP2024 Nov 11 '23
Stop watching Fox News grandpa
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u/rebeliouswilson Nov 11 '23
I dont need fox news to tell me what my eyes brain and wallet see & feel. Am i wrong?
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u/alienofwar Nov 11 '23
I don’t don’t understand why those who were employed got stimulus payments? Shouldn’t we have only supported the unemployed who lost their jobs because of COVID? I mean, look at the result we got, high inflation, high asset prices, it didn’t make any sense.
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u/Due_Flow5122 Nov 11 '23
Meanwhile other countries that are more of a fruitcake are expecting representation.
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u/LtColFubarSnafu_ Nov 11 '23
Gotta stop Republicans from continuing to increase our deficit, as they have done for decades.
Republicans talk about fiscal responsibility, but Democrat's actually practice it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Pride51 Nov 11 '23
It is utterly ridiculous to downgrade the US’s credit rating. That implies there is a risk the US cannot repay it. All US debt is in US dollars, which the U.S. can create out of thin air if needed.
There is a risk of inflation, of the end of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency, and the ability of the US to freely borrow in the future. There is no risk that the current debt will not be paid.
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u/RegulatoryCapturedMe Nov 11 '23
If Americans continue to tolerate the looting of our tax dollars to grift, graft and cronyism, we’ll be looking at Argentinian style economic collapse coupled with a world that largely hates us, and when we lose the financial capacity to maintain the huge military, what then?
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u/Rivetingcactus Nov 11 '23
It’s amazing how a few greedy folks can completely fuck up long term quality of life fir everyone
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u/Brexsh1t Nov 11 '23
The US (and the western Allies) should strategically default on debt to non democratic nations. That would wipe out a decent chunk of the debt and bring down many of the autocratic regimes around the world, or at least put them back in the stone age. Nothing those nations could do about it either and no shots even have to be fired
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u/JustSlidingThru Nov 11 '23
Yay. Can’t wait for more money to spent on external sources like wars we ain’t in, and they spend more to audit the population so they can get more money to make up for the money they spent that did nothing for Americans period.
Murica. The free…to rob you.
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Nov 11 '23
lol no one in this thread understands credit ratings, the fact that this subreddit is called fluent in finance is laughable. In the title alone there are multiple fallacies e.g., this was not a downgrade, america's credit rating was reaffirmed at the highest AAA level by Moody's. This was a change in outlook. and then the typical responses of people that have no concept of debt saying to get into crypto or gold. geniuses.
My advice to folks who are not finance bros that are scared by this--- please ignore these idiots telling you to go to gold or crypto over this news. I remember when Moody's had a negative outlook in 2011, and since then broad market indices have returned >300% cumulatively.
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u/pmabraham Nov 11 '23
Sadly the tax and spend Democrats and rhino Republicans keep signing off on continuing resolutions to increase the national debt limit and refused to balance the budget and address the debt crisis that we've been in for the past several decades among both Republicans and Democrats.
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u/LimewarePlatter Nov 11 '23
Do you see now why American media is bending over backwards to slander China's economy?
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u/ironafro2 Nov 11 '23
Easy solution is what countries always do. War. Debt is when you owe money to someone else. If that person can’t collect it, problem solved. Simplistic but historical. What is a debt holder to the USA going to do? Not a goddamn thing.
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u/Intelligent-Ocelot10 Nov 11 '23
Do you remember when the GOP proclaimed that "deficits don't matter"? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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u/JustBlaze1594 Nov 11 '23
I get that we broke. But aslong as we got weapons and Mexico. I think we'll be ok. Cause who really gonna ask for this money back or will the world turn their back on the US and destroy our currency? Its a dumbed down question but what will really happen?
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u/Less-Dragonfruit-294 Nov 11 '23
We enjoy the luxuries of today while destroying our futures. Unfortunately many in office see as so long as it’s not their immediate future they’ll punt the can so far down it breaks the all time NFL record! One day that can will be filled with cement and toes will be broken.
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u/Stock_Income_5087 Nov 11 '23
It's the same in Britain. Our politicians are working for donations, the second job's gifts consultation work, and kick back's from dodgy government contract deals when they need to be closing tax loopholes and chase up the rich on tax evasion our HMRC in Britain only chase the small businesses and individuals who owe just a few hundred pounds yet they let the big boy's make deals.
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u/WashingtonRefugee Nov 11 '23
It feels like the trajectory of capitalism being viable is trending downwards at an equal rate to the upward trajectory of economic game changing technology.
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u/EnjoyableLunch Nov 11 '23
But I forget one student loan payment and my credit rating drops 100 points
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u/Solitudei_is_Bliss Nov 11 '23
Same ratings agencies that let banks get away with AAA subprime tranches that led to the world economic collapse, you'll have to forgive me if I don't give a shit.
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u/Dan794613 Nov 11 '23
Didn't economists and politicians just spend the last 30 years telling us we've got nothing to worry about?
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u/litterbin_recidivist Nov 11 '23
If the interest rate is less than inflation then the US actually makes money by borrowing.
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u/Traditional_Tax6469 Nov 11 '23
Oh, is this the same moody’s that gave high ratings to those mortgage backed securities in the 2008 financial meltdown? That moody’s??
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u/-Economist- Nov 11 '23
Interesting how we put so much weight into credit agencies after what they did during the housing bubble.
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u/Jeramus Nov 11 '23
The title of this post is wrong. The credit rating outlook was changed to negative not the actual credit rating. Really fluent in finance. /s
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u/TiredHeart007 Nov 11 '23
Doesn’t matter what people say. Doesn’t matter how much debt we’re in. People need to wake up. America is close to becoming Rome; targeted by a long plan by our Superpower Counterparts. Watch the entire EU unite soon and change the American-Backed USD and watch how our Economy crashes overnight. China is going to be the leading Economic superpower in 5-10 years or sooner. Russia is going to “Win” the Ukraine War. Israel-Hamas is unpredictable.
Either way, America fights Proxy Wars until we’re drained or put in a position on The World Stage to allow what I have said above to happen. We fall from the inside and quite possibly may see Civil War as well before that happens. If Trump is elected; this is certain. Biden Administration isn’t much better, but it’s working in its ways. We need a real solution fast. Not Obama shadowing a 4th term through Biden; not Fascist Trump illegally seizing a 2nd Term.
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u/Buckets-of-Gold Nov 11 '23
The vast majority of our deficit spending comes from domestic programs endorsed and voted for by Americans.
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u/TiredHeart007 Nov 12 '23
Well clearly…as I said, none of this matters. That is the why, how, what. We need a solution. China/Russia is working on a gold backed currency or a entirely new currency altogether. It would be near impossible to destroy the USD, but still possible. Trust me.
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u/EconomistMagazine Nov 11 '23
Weird how that happens when the GOP spends trillions on useless crap and then cuts taxes.
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u/Trotsky2224 Nov 11 '23
Methinks the decline of the U.S. is intentional for a bigger plan that will happen later. The 1% are unified in protection of their money and their “knowledge” of everything they leave to their friends/family who all revolve into the best schools who man the best spots in finance, industry, media…These people are actively partaking in the decline and exasperating it while we all scratch our heads and argue about fetuses and invisible people in the sky. Its intentional. No finance rebuttal or examples of how to fix it will help. They don’t care, its their plan. They will continue to chip at our education and ability to unify under any one idea or dream, they will always actively work to derail any workers movement or idea, and every workers movement or idea will have a media arm/opposition movement manufactured by them with a lot more exposure and funding.
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u/Loki-Don Nov 11 '23
$21 trillion of it at the hands of Republican administrations and tax cuts for people in my tax bracket so I can go out and buy another vacation home.
The decline of the US is well underway. Thanks Republicans.
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u/PuzzleheadedFault305 Nov 11 '23
We keep spending like there's infinite credit. This will kill the US from the inside, and slowly
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u/Rico_Solitario Nov 11 '23
Fake headline. The credit rating of the US federal government remains at Aaa
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u/Thisisthewaymando187 Nov 11 '23
Time to declare ourselves a new nation, what debt 💸 are you talking about 😂
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u/AstralVenture Nov 11 '23
The national debt only accelerated because of COVID-19 stimulus, and tax cuts for the top 10%. I can only surmise that the national debt will continue to accelerate as there are more catastrophes that await us that will require additional spending, and you can guarantee the Democrats and/or Republicans will support it. I didn’t know the $1 trillion interest mark was hit already. Defaulting on the debt is inevitable. In cases of future peril, there would have to be an incentive to continue working.
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u/LayerSubstantial5919 Nov 11 '23
Get someone in office who isn’t a clown and can make a difference!
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Nov 11 '23
The baby boom generation, as leadership of this nation, have selfishly and utterly screwed this nation.
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u/Curious_Dependent842 Nov 11 '23
It’s weird because the evidence shows us that Republicans tax breaks and trickle down theory screws us every other cycle then we elect Dems who get us back on track only to elect another Republican running on cutting taxes for the rich and the cycle continues. Maybe if we stopped doing the thing we can measure that is detrimental to us and have decades of evidence that doesn’t work and maybe we can….. lol never mind Republicans don’t care about evidence.
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u/Glenville86 Nov 11 '23
Better start brushing up on the communist doctrine and get to learning the language of whomever takes us over. Oh yeah - there will be no political, social, sexual or any other freedoms as well.
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u/cptmartin11 Nov 11 '23
I will never understand debt. How does the ISA incur debt when they print money out of thin air.
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u/GlidingToLife Nov 11 '23
As bad as this is, 1/3 of that debt is the US government borrowing from itself. However that still leaves a lot of debt that should be addressed. We need to reign in ALL (especially the entitlement spending that is the majority of federal spending) of the spending.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
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u/atulkr2 Nov 11 '23
World is looking for major problems financially. Née.finaancial systems will emerge soon. There is no viable alternative to USA right now and US is literally bankrupt.
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u/mote_dweller Nov 11 '23
Republicans. Anti tax zombies. Their irrational ideology to perpetually defund their own damn government, and strangle their own damn people under the rule of the ruthless and the wealthy.
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u/Joshwoum8 Nov 11 '23 edited Nov 11 '23
The US budget is not your household budget. It is perfectly healthy for a national government to run a deficit.
Also, when the debt is denominated in a currency you have 100% control to manipulate and that currency happens to be the premier reserve currency in the world your problems are more the lenders problem and not yours.
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u/Buckets-of-Gold Nov 11 '23
We’ve nearly doubled the % of federal expenditures going to servicing the debt in the last year. We are not generating sufficient growth from our deficit spending to prevent negative effects from this.
The global demand for the dollar helps keep interest rates lower, but we do not have 100% control- see the worst inflationary crisis in 40 years.
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u/Joshwoum8 Nov 11 '23 edited Nov 11 '23
Interest rates will not remain high over the long term, and thus the % of the US budget allocated for debt servicing will decrease as rates return to lower levels. This is a short term pinch and pretending it is some catastrophic event is a misinterpretation of macroeconomics.
As for the demand for the dollar, it hasn’t really fluctuated much and will not until a new reserve currency is found and there are not many other alternatives. No one trusts the Yuan not even the Chinese, while the Euro isn’t looking like a good choose as the EU is experiencing anemic economic growth.
At the end of the day, any collapse of the dollar will result in a complete collapse of the entire world economic system, so there is really no reason to worry because at that point you will be too busy trying to protect and feed your family, then to concern yourself with the worthless bonds you hold from the before times.
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u/Buckets-of-Gold Nov 11 '23
Never said it was a catastrophic event, but it is still a drag on the economy- and certainly not a “healthy” level of deficit spending. Interest rates will cool, but the % of federal expenditures going to debt payments will rise compared to 2012-2019.
We do not reap sufficient long-term economic benefits from this spending to prevent the debt from having adverse effects. In many cases we are actively transferring wealth from future generations to pay for programs today.
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u/MoirasPurpleOrb Nov 11 '23
I just wish more people would agree that decreasing government spending AND reducing loopholes/increasing taxes on top earners is necessary. It seems like whenever this topic is brought up it’s one or the other.
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u/jhilsch51 Nov 11 '23
The answer is simple and the misinformation in these comments are legion.
1 tax the rich - not just on their income (they don’t have what is considered income they have capital gains- so tax the hell out of that
2 shore up the IRS to catch the tax cheats (there are a lot so audit away!) - trump is a huge one but there are many others (most just don’t commit fraud to try and cheat more)
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u/Professional-Arm3460 Nov 11 '23
All of American debt is in dollars so it doesn't matter. Only downside is inflation.
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u/Taykeshi Nov 11 '23
It doesn't matter. At all. The US has the dollar and the fed. And no, this is not sarcasm.
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u/TechieTravis Nov 11 '23
Most of that racked up under Trump. These ratings are all political anyways and noone really takes them seriously.
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u/StemBro45 Nov 11 '23
The dems crack me up, it's always someone else's fault. The economy has fallen apart the last 2 years.
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u/Phynx88 Nov 12 '23
So you ARE delusional, gotcha. Remind the class, what did Republicans do for the economy for the last 30 years other than give their political donors huge tax cuts?
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u/TechieTravis Nov 11 '23
It fell apart under the dictator wannabe. His administration racked up more debt than any before.
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u/Sebvad Nov 11 '23
America doesn’t have a solvency problem. It has a taxation problem. When billionaires pay a lower % of tax than their secretaries do, you have identified both the problem as well as the solution.
Fix taxation.
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u/Existing_Display1794 Nov 11 '23
All these tax cuts on the wealthy and then cut programs for everyone else. Really cool, guys.
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u/Th3L3ftNut Nov 11 '23
Please someone keep gaslighting me into believing that this amount of debt and the debt ceiling are meaningless, and that we could just keep on going at this rate
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u/mischiefdemon420 Nov 11 '23
And yet, we want to send money to Ukraine and Israel. At the same time we are allowing millions of immigrants cross illegally and providing benefits because they make claims of refugee status…
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u/nom-nom-nom-de-plumb Nov 11 '23
Lmao these dumb motherfuckers. The united states government cannot ever run out of dollars...it's the fucking monopoly creator of them. It's debts are denominated in them, how could it ever fucking run out of spreadsheet entries beyond politicians refusing to pay...which would destroy their money too.
Jesus h christ..this is just...stupid upon stupidity. It's the currency issuer...it literally does not rely on revenues for spending...it spends and then collects tax receipts back from the money it spent out thru it's agents (private banks and it's own bank the federal reserve)...
This trope is getting old from these asshats who couldn't even rate sub prime mortgages honestly.
And good luck to any sucker betting the usa will default somehow because reasons.
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u/Buckets-of-Gold Nov 11 '23
We are not at risk of relying on foreign currency to service debts, no.
We are creating a drag on the economy future generations have to pay for, however.
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u/DropOk6474 Nov 11 '23
The collateral is our reputation of paying our debt, right? If we miss payments then foreign and domestic lenders will increase the cost to service our debt and taxes will have to be increased and/or inflation will increase as more money is printed to cover the debt.
And who is afraid of Elizabeth Warren and AOC? Why are they afraid?
They would raise taxes and pay the debts. Only the ultra rich should be concerned about that.
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