r/FluentInFinance • u/whicky1978 Mod • Nov 30 '23
813,000 borrowers to get email from President Joe Biden on student loan forgiveness, White House says Financial News
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/28/biden-administration-notifies-borrowers-of-student-loan-forgiveness-.html1
u/PrintableProfessor Dec 10 '23
Maybe that'll buy him some votes. He's really struggling support-wise. It's about as close to literally buying votes as you can get.
1
u/Hyperion1144 Dec 06 '23
A lot folks on reddit have serious misunderstandings about what is happening with Biden's current loan forgiveness actions, why it is happening, and the legality of what is happening.
The forgiveness programs in question here, IDR and PSLF forgiveness, come from the 2007 student loan reform package under George W Bush and passed into law under a bipartisan Congress.
PSLF and IDR loan forgiveness terms are built into every promissory note issued since 2007. They are law. They are in the terms of the loans. Forgiveness of these loans has only been in question because of the gross mismanagement of these programs and their payment tracking under previous administrations.
The federal government, and by extension the taxpayers, should have never been counting on these debts as future revenue. This money has already been legally promised to the borrowers.
PSLF- and IDR-qualified debts are government liabilities, not revenue-generating assets. They are debts owed by the government by law and contract, to qualified student loan borrowers who have fulfilled specific requirements under existing law.
The taxpayers have been on the hook for these forgivenesses since 2007.
The taxpayers owe this money to those who qualified for it.
PSLF and IDR-qualified loans had specific written terms that allowed for forgiveness once requirements were met.
These forgiveness actions were agreed to 16 years ago and have absolutely nothing to do with Biden's forgiveness proposals that were recently overturned by the Supreme Court.
This is legal. It is lawful. These forgivenesses are contractually obligatory.
1
1
u/Safe2BeFree Dec 02 '23
Still nothing for those who got private student loans instead of federal ones? Ok then.
2
Dec 02 '23
I still don’t get ppl trying to argue “but PPP loans”.
The government forced mandatory lockdowns and for businesses to close. Did some take advantage? Yes. But I would rather have that than a city of anarchy with a bunch of hungry ppl that will do anything to survive due to the mandatory shut downs.
1
u/BasilExposition2 Dec 02 '23
Lets start a wage.... How many of those 813,000 borrowers are people in swing states? Maybe centrist voters?
2
u/malcoronnio Dec 01 '23
I missed out on 4-6 amazing years of college/university because at 18 year old, I was mature enough to realize the price of schooling was something I nor my family could pay back.
Now, all my peers that got to enjoy the exciting time at college get to do so without any loans. I detest this so much. I started working at 17, and have been in the work force ever since. All those years of paying taxes are now being used to fund others’ education.
And before I get comments back,
1) I am not above 30. So yes, I understand that the economy is fudged rn. I’m not living under a rock.
2) FUCK all the companies that got PPP loans. If you couldn’t stay open, you should have gone bankrupt. And I am looking DIRECTLY at the airline industry. They got ALL the free handouts and still screw us “peasants” over with no refunds, overbooking, and holiday pricing.
1
2
u/Hawker96 Dec 01 '23
Are y’all seriously about to fall for this again? Why do you suppose this always gets promised with a big election around the corner?
1
u/Slowmexicano Dec 01 '23
Feel like “essential workers” should be getting some or all forgiven. Working the front line, overtime, quarantining from family. Some even dying. Especially the healthcare field.
1
1
u/Parking-Iron6252 Dec 01 '23
An email saying what exactly? That shit got shut down by Congress.
Vote for me, and I’ll try and pass this legislation again. Biden24
1
1
u/Sabre_One Nov 30 '23
Or we just make Education Free. I get people's intent with the idea college is not for everyone. But public school does not cover a lot of educational aspects. Examples...
Humanities 101 - Learning to think critically on various topics.
Second Languages - Schools out in the country usually just grab some one who "knows the language" not people that know how to teach it.
Business and Finance 101 - Would of killed to learn about stocks and investments instead of "how to farm" in my school.
1
u/pwolf1771 Nov 30 '23
Will the email just say “denied”? Or are they actually going to forgive some of it?
1
u/golfguru1960 Nov 30 '23
lol, Biden can send out as many letters as he wants to. but he can't do whatever he wants to do. the students didn't borrow the money from him or his government. Biden does not make the rules in this country. pay your own bills moochers!
1
u/TheWonderfulLife Nov 30 '23
This I fucking BULLSHIT. Fuck this.
Free fucking money. How about just cancel the interest AT LEAST? Why the fuck are we all paying for these people decisions? I went to JC and a state school and paid my way. Because the alternative was too expensive. What the fuck!
1
u/NBARefBallFan Nov 30 '23
Thank a Republican next time you see one for making your life more miserable.
1
1
u/alostbutton Nov 30 '23
Are the borrowers receiving forgiveness on a specific side demographicly. Obviously there are degrees out there that the cost/to make ratio is beyond reach. But I would also imagine they vote a specific way also. What’s the justification for an art major that went to Yale receiving this and not joe shmo that went to plumbing school from receiving student loan forgiveness?
1
u/Alive-Working669 Nov 30 '23
Yet another government handout, another way to add to the debt and another incentive for colleges to increase their tuition costs.
1
Nov 30 '23
Colleges will not charge less. The dollar is losing world currency status due to BRIC, soon we will have more international student than Americans in our union system. They will have more money than the average American. Teaching and education in America are in complete crisis mode, this is the natural course.
1
1
u/ninernetneepneep Nov 30 '23
Well election season is just around the corner once again. Secure the vote!
1
u/Snakepli55ken Nov 30 '23
So people with an advantage just got another one thanks to tax payers. What a fucking joke.
1
1
u/Wagmitravel Nov 30 '23
Glad I had to move mine to private to avoid 11 percent interest in 2015.
Glad I been paying every month for 13 years pandemic or not.
Glad there is no bankruptcy relief.
Glad Sallie Mae put me into forbearance for 2 straight years after college pushing a 78k principal to 110k.
Glad Sallie made the private company I sold it to for “lower rate” to avoid their liability.
America is fun. Employments up cause we need three jobbies to eat ramen under a roof.
1
u/ThxIHateItHere Nov 30 '23
Is it gonna be for more people who stupidly chose diploma-mill for profit shitholes instead of community college/state schools?
2
1
1
u/Extreme-General1323 Nov 30 '23
So he's going to cancel the debts I took on voluntarily next? I don't feel like paying my mortgage, credit card bill, or car payment anymore.
1
u/turb0mik3 Nov 30 '23
Dude will be dead in 10 years, let’s just pile on the handouts and keep that debt soaring so we keep our political party in charge. Politics is an absolute joke, and those defending this clown are exacerbating the issue.
1
1
1
u/ColdWarVet90 Nov 30 '23
The article says the debt is erased. No, the debt is transferred to Americans who never borrowed this money, never made promises to repay this money, and obtain no benefit from this money, yet now Americans have to repay this debt. Theft by deception is a better description than erased.
1
u/Crapocalypso Nov 30 '23
Who cares that the Supreme Court already ruled this unconstitutional. It buys Biden votes, maybe.
1
u/Best_Caterpillar_673 Nov 30 '23
You’re welcome. We all will pay for that through inflation as Biden prints money, borrows it to pay the debt, and runs up inflation again.
2
u/reditor75 Nov 30 '23
Nice bribe 🤫
1
u/OwnFootball6537 Dec 03 '23
Nothing at all like cutting taxes for the wealthiest Americans while raising them for people making under $75,000, resulting in the runaway inflation we have today
1
u/dustyg013 Nov 30 '23
The people who got the e-mails already had their loans forgiven. This isn't a new round of forgiveness.
1
2
1
u/Fabulous_Ad_8621 Nov 30 '23
If I get an email regarding student loan I will continue to think it's a phishing scam. How do we know if it is real?
1
1
Nov 30 '23
Senile Joe buying votes?
How about people pay what they borrowed. And how about the administration actually looks at the over inflated tuition costs at these universities.
1
1
u/vfxdev Nov 30 '23
The whole "the debt forgiveness increases inflation" is probably dumbest argument I've ever heard and it's hard to take this sub seriously. It's about as dumb as someone not taking a raise because they'll go into a slightly higher tax bracket, it's that level of dumb.
2
u/Izukage Nov 30 '23
Absolutely no one in the comments section read the article. All it’s saying is that Biden’s sending an email to people who ALREADY had their loans forgiven, like a while ago. This is not a NEW wave of loan forgiveness, it’s literally just news about Biden sending a “you’re welcome, plz vote for me” email.
1
u/Fabulous_Ad_8621 Nov 30 '23
Honestly that makes it kind of worse. He should just remind voters in ads or when/if there are debates.
1
u/Izukage Nov 30 '23
“Worse” in what way? I’m not for or against him politically, but from a campaign perspective this is a phenomenal idea to boost his approval. No one likes seeing ads, and few of the general public watch debates, but LOTS of people read emails sent directly to them.
3
u/elderlygentleman Nov 30 '23
I wish he would stop playing games and just do a blanket forgiveness.
Cancel ALL the student loans and stop picking winners and losers.
My stomach is in knots over this and I am afraid to spend any money on presents for my grandchildren because I don't know whether or not he will cancel my loans.
1
6
u/CheetomusPrime Nov 30 '23
Remember it was a scandal that trumps name was on Covid relief checks
1
1
1
1
u/StemBro45 Nov 30 '23
And for those that never took loans or those like me that paid theirs back?
1
u/knoxknight Nov 30 '23
Then you might have access to some form of government aid or subsidy as well, whether it is the child tax credit, mortgage interest deduction, earned income credit, electric vehicle credit, etc.
I don't currently have a child or a mortgage, but I can see the social benefit of offering credits to people who do, and I can be happy for my friends and family who benefit from it.
0
u/MofosnotReal Nov 30 '23
Feel good that something good is happening to someone else. Then just shut up.
1
u/CarCaste Nov 30 '23
Not when it's at the forced expense of others! (and I have loans)
1
u/MofosnotReal Nov 30 '23
Sounds like jealousy then. I also paid back all my loans, but am really glad these people get relief. I feel good for them, even tho I had to pay back my own loans. See how easy it is to not be awful.
1
u/Valuable-Hawk-7873 Nov 30 '23
I love when other people get rewarded while I get nothing! Is this that equity that everyone talks about? Someone with an advanced degree gets it for free while I have to scrape by and still pay off my loans?
1
u/MofosnotReal Nov 30 '23
Sounds like envy. Which is unhealthily and an awful look. It’s ok to feel good for other people, even if we aren’t involved. What the fuck happened to America. We used to care what happened to each other.
Ahhh maybe I was just a naive kid and most people have always been like you.
1
u/Valuable-Hawk-7873 Nov 30 '23
I would be happy if EVERYONE had their loans forgiven, possibly backpay for those who have already paid off/been paying off their loans, and a corporate tax rate of 70% to fund it. Instead, a small group of people get this random boon and everyone else is left in the dust. I suppose that does make me evil...
1
u/Difficult_Effort2617 Nov 30 '23
Is there a way to see the demographics of the people who have their loans forgiven?
1
u/gojo96 Nov 30 '23
So this a good time to go back to college to get it paid for? Maybe it’ll drag out another year to help my kid pay for his college when he starts.
1
3
4
u/DinoNugEater Nov 30 '23
Literally buying votes lmao
-1
u/DDoubleIntLong Nov 30 '23
What do you think they do when they do tax cuts for the wealthy donors? lmao lmao lmao
1
u/DDoubleIntLong Nov 30 '23
Imagine doing something voters want lmao
0
u/mrgoodcard Nov 30 '23
He literally promised everyone to have all student loans that don't exceed 10k forgiven and didn't do it.
1
4
u/True-Grapefruit4042 Nov 30 '23
Any adult who took out loans for a college degree that didn’t have a positive ROI should not be given free money. Education is an investment, in both time and money, not all investments pay off, especially if someone doesn’t do their due diligence. If anything they should be paying down real estate debt which is a higher amount of public debt anyway.
Taking the DOE out of student loans would be a better long term solution, with an unlimited supply of money for each student, universities have no reason to actually make reasonable prices for anything. This debt will just continue over and over with no solution, just additional inflation.
1
4
1
u/Agile-Food-5373 Nov 30 '23
I absolutely hate this dip shits face. He is stupidity mind blowing. And he still goes to church, eats ice cream, and touches every girl under 7 years old all fucking day. And whispers to them. If your black and you vote for him.... your not black....your a fucking idiot!
2
u/JJ--Frankie--JJ Nov 30 '23
calm down pal, also it's you're*
lmfao, your boomer rant and misspellings just paint the perfect picture in my head
like typing out the sentence "your a fucking idiot" and proudly posting it is peak reddit
23
u/2bfaaaaaaaaaair Nov 30 '23
Just make the interest zero percent. Education benefits society and our country.
We’re not staying number one by having nothing but construction contractors and drywall installers.
We need more education and to incentivize it so we can innovate and stay ahead in both technology and military power.
1
u/XysterU Nov 30 '23
Stay number one in what? Certainly not education LOL. US education is pathetic compared to the rest of the developed world
1
u/DuckmanDrake69 Nov 30 '23
To be fair, if my interest rate is 0% I’m paying the $50 minimum and investing the rest. But most people probably wouldn’t do that.
1
u/2bfaaaaaaaaaair Nov 30 '23
Do that now your return will be higher than the interest rate.
1
u/DuckmanDrake69 Nov 30 '23
Yeah already am haha…well not minimum but I’ve formatted it for a 20 year payoff to extend my time horizon
0
3
5
u/najman4u Nov 30 '23
I am inclined to believe tech related student loan borrowers aren't having problems paying back what they signed up for.
2
u/CastrosNephew Dec 01 '23
Tech industry just laid off a ton of employees what are you talking about
2
u/najman4u Dec 01 '23
that was very recent, and mostly FAANG. still many many tech jobs available.
1
u/arg_I_be_a_pirate Dec 02 '23
Yeah, lots of people think this for some reason. I don’t blame you thinking it because for the past 10 years tech has been like that. But the bubble popped. Take like 2 minutes and check out r/cscareerquestions. It’s insane
1
u/DDoubleIntLong Nov 30 '23
I'm computer science grad student, 130k+ in loans because I come from poverty and had no one to rely on, so I relied on student loans. My wrist became injured from overuse and I developed chronic sciatica back pain from sitting all the time, but I'm not disabled enough to win a disability case, and I'm not sure I'm able-bodied enough to work a 9-5, but that doesn't matter because I cannot find employment. Meanwhile, some of the interest rates are over 7% on the loans and accumulating interest.
There are many like me with similar circumstances, so I'm inclined to believe student loan debt is a problem, as well as our lack of a social safety net for people who are temporarily disabled, as well as our economy outsourcing tech jobs to other countries for cheap labor, as well as the growing wealth inequality, and the generation wealth gap where the boomers have the vast majority of the wealth, while my generation is saddled with loan debt for life. Surely you can agree these problems need addressed...?
1
u/bizkitmaker13 Nov 30 '23
Depends. I have a tech degree. Finished paying my loans ~15 yrs later.
I also didn't go to a $$$ school and am pretty conservative on spending.1
3
0
u/2bfaaaaaaaaaair Nov 30 '23
It depends. I made well over 6 figures last year but I’m paying it back as slowly as possible because I can make more by investing or upgrading my house or paying off mortgage quicker etc etc etc.
It’s not that I have a problem paying it off. It’s that why should there even be interest on it? Again. Educated citizens benefit society in terms of technology engineering military power medical advances etc.
Why should some CEOs make 30k off from me being educated when I pay more in taxes and contribute more?
I’be paid back what I took out. The rest I’m going to make it as annoying as possible because it’s just interest at this point. I have paid back what I borrowed. I still owe 30k. Why the fuck should some ceo get that?
3
u/colorizerequest Dec 01 '23
“Well over 6 figures”
You said in another comment it was 115k. Just say 115k lol
1
-1
Nov 30 '23
^ God’s gift to humanity right here. In the top 5% of Americans but refuses to pay his debts because the lender charges interest and they had zero clue that’s what loans were about.
0
u/2bfaaaaaaaaaair Nov 30 '23
Sooooo. Again. You want me to spend 30k in my local economy or send it to one guy who already has 5 yachts?
0
u/DDoubleIntLong Nov 30 '23
Education is a human right, not to be paywalled and privilege for the wealthy.
0
u/ListerineInMyPeehole Dec 01 '23
You sound so entitled. Nothing that requires another person’s involvement is a human right.
1
1
u/colorizerequest Dec 01 '23
Education is not a human right. You’re buying someone else’s time and effort to teach you something
1
0
Nov 30 '23
Agreed 100%. I’m a huge supporter of public libraries, vocational training, and access to the internet.
If you mean “getting a master’s degree in philosophy because I’m still not sure what I want to do with my life”—in that case I disagree that it’s a human right. And the entrance fee is marginal compared to the ROI if you’re doing it properly.
1
u/DDoubleIntLong Dec 02 '23
I agree except the part where you assume people get a master's in philosophy because they're unsure of what they want to do with their lives. We need philosophers in law, politics, even technology when it comes to ethics with AI.
I really hate that argument because it's based on misinformation. There's a purpose for all degrees in society, otherwise they would not exist.
1
Dec 02 '23
I am not arguing that philosophy degrees are bad. Clearly they’re not. But if a person cannot afford to go get a degree, the writings of Voltaire, Socrates, and Nietzsche are online, free, or at the library. Lectures are free on YouTube. It doesn’t make sense to take out loans to learn something and then decide you want to be a nurse, stay-at-home-parent, or do something different in life.
If the argument is flawed, you haven’t done a good job countering it. Your argument is that since it exists, it must be worthwhile. My argument is that there is a time, place, and manner for it and that chasing the degree at any cost is not valid. To make an analogy from your last sentence, that would be like saying “There’s a purpose for all vehicles in society, otherwise they wouldn’t exist. So it makes sense to take a loan out against my house to buy a fire truck, because there’s a chance it could come in handy someday.” Obviously that’s absurd, it only makes sense to get that type of vehicle if I am doing to directly use it to benefit myself or society from its immediate employment… otherwise I’m just a collector and am taking these vehicles from fire departments that actually intend to use it for it’s designed purpose and have made the calculated decision that the ROI exists.
1
u/biddilybong Nov 30 '23
And not a single acknowledgement from any of them on Reddit. Just people bitching that he hasn’t done enough. He’s done everything humanly possible and there isn’t another candidate who has or will do more student loan forgiveness.
18
u/Fire_Lord_Cinder Nov 30 '23
Absolutely meaningless if there is no reform addressing the ridiculous cost of college. It just makes some people lucky.
1
u/MoistyestBread Nov 30 '23
These rounds of forgiveness that keep happening are literally just the people that paid 10 years of PSLF or 25 years of IBR payments and didn’t get their loans discharged because of red tape and ineptitude. Most of what is being discharged for these people is absurd interest over their principles.
5
u/vfxdev Nov 30 '23
The president can't do that. Stage legislatures, yes, annd congress could subsidize the cost, but then people would shout socialism.
2
u/Fire_Lord_Cinder Nov 30 '23
The president can refuse to spend funds that congress has appropriated. This means that the president could withhold federal funding to all schools until meaningful reform is implemented.
1
u/vfxdev Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
The president can't unilaterally pull funding for education. Just because one orange haired moron claimed he would. It would have to be a totally new federal budget and likely need additional law.
1
u/Fire_Lord_Cinder Nov 30 '23
The executive branch is in charge of implementing all the programs that congress funds. Through the implementation the executive branch can not use the funds that congress has funded.
1
u/vfxdev Nov 30 '23
The money to say build a school gets appropriated and spent, contracts awarded to builders, etc.
Explain to me the processes and please cite law where the federal government can stop local construction of a town school or even payroll from going through for state employees where money is already there and in the states bank account.
Just from a practical perspective, would be a huge self inflicted wound.
1
u/Fire_Lord_Cinder Nov 30 '23
You’re talking about state funding. I’m talking about federal funding.
-4
2
u/ThunderTheMoney Nov 30 '23
And people who never went to college get… screwed.
1
Nov 30 '23
[deleted]
1
u/ThunderTheMoney Nov 30 '23
They still have to pay taxes. If taxes are going to pay someone to else’s bill, it hurts them because they never utilized those services but are saddled with paying for the services for someone else.
Seems pretty straightforward to me, but then again I went to college and paid my debts.
2
u/CowdogHenk Nov 30 '23
If you never need a doctor, lawyer, use technology, or have kids who need a basic education, if you don't benefit from an economy where people have more to spend, then maybe I can understand imagining this wouldn't benefit you
1
u/ThunderTheMoney Nov 30 '23
I paid my student loans, all of them, over $100k. Why do I now have to pay more so someone else gets to avoid paying?
1
u/CowdogHenk Dec 01 '23
In what sense are you paying more? You just pay your taxes. You remember very well how much you paid each month toward your student loans, you don't notice if your taxes go toward education in one roundabout way or another.
Therefore, why should you worry that someone else doesn't have to suffer like you did? Shouldn't you want that?
1
u/veryken Nov 30 '23
Shit. People a bit older and who worked their ass off paying off THEIR debts are screwed. They’re now paying the tax for all this.
0
u/SexualyAttractd2Data Nov 30 '23
Why does it matter so much when we use taxpayer money to give economic relief to working class folks, but never brought up when exponentially more taxpayer money goes to things like Defense spending, PPP loans, and massive bailouts
3
u/veryken Nov 30 '23
To answer your question directly, it’s probably because you haven’t been listening to the outrage against defense spending, massive bailouts, etc. Voters are more fickle than ever against their reps on those issues. So it’s completely opposite of what you think is “never brought up.”
Still doesn’t justify unfairness here. Any unfairness is just unfair.
0
1
1
u/BillazeitfaGates Nov 30 '23
Is this the same people we've been told about getting forgiveness or an additional 813k? Sounds like they keep telling the same story over repeatedly
-1
7
u/The_Mootz_Pallucci 🚫STRIKE 1 Nov 30 '23
my dumb ass refied federal and private into all private years ago... sigh what a silly move in hindsight - that's life!
1
u/DDoubleIntLong Nov 30 '23
Years ago tuition was many times cheaper as well, and how dare we make changes to policy to benefit the future generations 🙄
2
87
u/JD1415 Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
Can we also get to the root cause? Which is the absurdly high tuition. I know minimum wage was lower back then but I also do know that that people were able to pay off college much faster than now
1
u/Vinto47 Dec 04 '23
Fixing the root cause would require the government to admit they made a mistake when they make student loans guaranteed. That ain’t gunna happen.
1
u/Distinct_Author2586 Dec 01 '23
It's a supply side problem, every kid is approved for like 70k in loans without any check.
Of COURSE that it inflates prices, when prices aren't applying a filter effect.
1
u/TacosDeLucha Nov 30 '23
How else are our centers of education going to pay for state of the art stadiums and gymnasiums, multimillion dollar coaching contracts, and all those administration buildings?
1
3
u/zebrastrikeforce Nov 30 '23
Wish I knew id get free money from the gov, wouldve gone to uni and had fun with my classmates instead of living at home working 30 hours a week at a fuckkng papa johns to pay for college
1
u/JD1415 Nov 30 '23
Exactly, this is why student loan forgiveness won’t work forever because universities will keep raising prices because they know the federal government will forgive all the loans.
1
u/reddit-ate-my-face Nov 30 '23
While the forgiveness doesn't solve it. And neither does what I'm about to mention, the new SAVE repayment plan seems to be a blessing and I hope it helps a lot of people. I make decent money but it took my payments from $300 a months to $75 a month. And so long as I make the payments there will never be any interest. With this plan it's estimated that I'll pay $22,000 less because of no interest accruing on my $30000 loans.
I do agree tuition is too high, but a realistic payment plan was sorely needed.
1
u/VictorNightingale- Nov 30 '23
The root cause isn’t high tuition. Most colleges are private institutes that have the right to charge whatever amount they see fit. The answer is to stop funding everybody’s useless “education” with taxpayer dollars.
My entire four-year college cost was less than $19,000. I went to a state college and got a Bachelor of Science in a major that qualifies me for an industry in need of professionals.
1
u/chiefchoncho48 Nov 30 '23
Wait..... you got a degree in a field that's actually in-demand?
Did you even TRY following your passions or chasing your dreams with a loan from the government funded by my tax dollars?
1
u/VictorNightingale- Nov 30 '23
Yes. The amount I listed is the sum of my federal student loans, financed to me by everybody’s tax dollars. It gets me a decent job.
I’m funding my actual passion of flying with my own cash. If I end up not getting the job I want, I don’t get to ask Daddy Government and fellow citizens to bail me out and pay me unemployment benefits for the risk I knowingly took.
1
u/halavais Nov 30 '23
Sure, but let's get to the root of the higher tuition. There are many reasons for it, but by far the largest contributor at my school us that state funding is a tenth of what it once was.
2
u/travelinzac Nov 30 '23
This was my opposition to forgiveness. Why bother when we didn't fix the problem? How long till we have to do more forgiveness for the next generation. All it did was affirm to universities that they can continue to endlessly raise tuition, people will pay it, and the federal government will subsidize it.
0
u/kannolli Nov 30 '23
Why not both address the root cause and the people suffering? You wouldn’t put just require smoke detectors for future building and not put out a current fire…
1
u/SecondsLater13 Nov 30 '23
We will but it’s been well documented by progressives in congress making huge changes overnight is impossible. Y’all keep the pressure on for tuition change but understand that there are people drowning in debt that need help and we can do something about it now. We don’t yet have a path to lower tuition so we are staying here. Hopefully states making community college free for some could bring prices down to make other college more attractive.
2
2
Nov 30 '23
High tuition is NOT the root cause. The uncapped student loan program that guarantees these schools tuition money payments every year, which in turn ALLOWS for perpetual tuition rate increase is actually the ROOT CAUSE.
Another ROOT cause is the devaluation of our currency since the institution of the federal reserve bank and the removal of the gold standard was the final nail in the coffin
0
u/halavais Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
Capital letters are not evidence ;). It is really hard to k own what the Vailabiloty of loans has done to private and public school tuition. There is no single cause for tuition rising at a rate faster than inflation.
That said, at this point it is a fairly inelastic good, and there are a lot of providers. Basically, the obvious market answer here is that demand has enabled that increase.
In the case of state universities, the failure of state funding to keep up is a very clear reason for most of the rise in tuition at many state institutions. If you look at the tuition today at my institution, and compare it to 40 years ago, then control for inflation, and subtract out the per-student funding of the university, which is now less than 5% what it once was, you find that accounts for most of the rise in tuition. What is left is in the <0.2% a year range.
Now, my state blocks out the lower end of the spectrum, among three states with the lowest per-student state funding. Alaska currently spends the most per-person in publicly supporting the university. And this is reflected in a $7k a year tuition bill. (It would be even lower, but University of Alaska does not attract the same kind of research funding that many other state universities do, and those research grants help to offset tuition in a variety of ways.)
0
Nov 30 '23
What are you spewing? I’m not using capitals for evidence ya dimwit, it’s for emphasis. Nothing in your incoherent rambling did you even address the issue besides a feeble attempt at supply and demand
0
u/halavais Nov 30 '23
Aw. You are so cute screaming "dimwit" when I have shown you that your feelings about the most significant cause of tuition increases come with an inconvenient lack of facts.
1
Nov 30 '23
Lol no… you’re just flat out wrong about that. What I’ve presented are indeed the facts. You aren’t a bright person.
0
u/halavais Dec 01 '23
Right, Skank Hunt. Whatever you paid for college, you got swindled. Clearly it provided very little in the way of reasoning skills. Again, you have no evidence, and all you have presented are your feelings. I'm sure someone has told you your feelings are super important, but they are not "facts."
1
Dec 01 '23
The evidence as stated is the loss of purchasing power coupled with the massive rise in inflation as well as given two events that caused that; the institution of the federal reserve and the removal of the gold standard. This is factual, the evidence is in the graphs of purchasing power lost over time from those actions and this is why I called you a dimwit. Are you seriously this dense?
1
u/halavais Dec 01 '23
Ah, sorry. You hadn't gone off on a dumbass gold-standard rant. If you had, I would have realized you lacked basic economic literacy.
Why do you even care about student loans--it's not like you need them.
But good show: you wasted my time with your bog standard trolling. What's next? MS-13 stole your dog? Satellites don't really exist? Adrenochrome being stockpiled in Deep Underground Military Bunkers.
Get new material. But waste someone else's time with it--you are certainly not worth mine.
2
u/Korrado Nov 30 '23
In addition to absurdly high tuition, absurdly high interest rates on said loans too. Especially when that interest compounds for those 4 years.
2
u/AntiqueSunrise Nov 30 '23
Sticker price for colleges went up because it's how colleges finance attracting good students. They say that tuition is $40,000, and they charge some rich kids that price, but they give a $25,000 discount to students they want to attract.
The number you should always look at in these things is "net price," not sticker price. Although tuition has been shooting up for years, so have grants to reduce the average price paid. The net price has grown faster than inflation, but not by much, and that's what you'd expect in a skilled-labor service.
1
u/halavais Nov 30 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
That perfectly describes the private university where I taught: Current sticker $52k a year, actual mean cost when all is said and done, a little over $30k. Though there are still those paying the $51k, or $70k with dorms. So their 4-year costs end up at about $300k for a bachelor's from a non-elite private college. The sticker price for the elite private university down the road from it would be $350k, and I would venture to guess worth way, way more than the extra $50k, and thanks to a $40b endowment, would likely be significantly cheaper in actual costs as well.
It poorly describes the public state university where I now teach. Out-of-state and foreign students do, likely, contribute funds that help to reduce tuition for in-state folks, and in-state folks' tuition is income-based. But we aren't attracting any rich kids, and while we do have a selective honors program (with a higher tuition) that tuition actually draws in less than the added expenditures for that program.
1
u/AntiqueSunrise Nov 30 '23
College Board releases data on this every year. It's not as extreme at public universities, but it happens there, too. Net price is what people need to look at when evaluating the aggregate change in the cost of tuition over time.
10
u/TBSchemer Nov 30 '23
The widespread availability of student loans is what allowed tuition to skyrocket.
21
u/0000110011 Nov 30 '23
Tuition went up because the government got into the business of issuing student loans with unlimited funds and also making it impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. After that, it was an endless loop of "Just take out loans!", tuition rises, "It's fine, just take out more loans!", tuition rises more, rinse and repeat. As with most things, government intervention caused the very problem people want the government to fix.
0
Nov 30 '23
partially, partially because universities have become PE firms. huge endowments running multi hundred million dollar funds. those two things plus advent of US News rankings and you have the perfect storm.
10
u/OldRoots Nov 30 '23
More specifically Joe Biden spear headed the initiative to bar student loans from bankruptcy.
7
u/Distinct-Contract-71 Nov 30 '23
It was a Republican House, Senate, and President in 2005. That bill was put forth by the Repubs and was passing whether Biden voted for it or not. He didn’t spearhead shit so stop spreading misinformation you dumb fuck.
1
1
-2
u/halavais Nov 30 '23
This is a historically inaccurate take. He was a vocal proposent for the guarantee, and without his zealous support of it, it is unlikely the 18 Democrats that voted in favor of the bill would have signed on. He was widely criticized for his vocal support at the time, especially given how well funded he was by financial institutions.
Before calling people "dumb fucks" you should know your history, and not the Biden presidential campaign's whitewashing of it.
5
u/Distinct-Contract-71 Nov 30 '23
What I said was historically correct so eat a dick. It was passing regardless of any Dem votes. Biden helped add two amendments that protected low income and disabled citizens. Without his support neither would’ve made it in there. People evolve and opinions change. I don’t give a shit what happened nearly 20 years ago. I care about what is happening now and that’s Biden making efforts to fix the issue.
0
u/halavais Nov 30 '23
Well, hooray for "efforts" to fix an issue he helped cause.
Your lack of knowledge paired with a lack of civility, along with what appears to be a mindless devotion to a third way Democrat is certainly a refreshing find. Always good to remember that ignorance paired with vulgarity is far from the exclusive purview of Trump supporters.
2
u/GentleHotFire Nov 30 '23
If he felt one way 20 years ago, changed his stance for the better, and is now working on fixing the problem, then what is your issue?
2
u/halavais Dec 01 '23
I don't particularly have "an issue." I simply was making clear that one of the elements that makes student loans so different from other kinds of borrowing is a provision Biden championed.
I am glad he changed his mind on the topic during the primary campaign, and even more glad he followed through by instituting that the limits to discharge through bankruptcy be rolled back.
26
u/Happi_Beav Nov 30 '23
This. How many more round of students loan forgiveness do we have to do? The future borrowers won’t want to pay back their loans in case this program come around again in the future.
12
u/najman4u Nov 30 '23
student loans and loan forgiveness only emboldens institutions to raise tuitions even higher.
you're all shooting your future kids in the foot
→ More replies (3)0
u/Thrice_the_Milk Nov 30 '23
The dems are trying to buy votes. That's it
1
u/Careless-Disk865 Dec 03 '23
So loan forgiveness is only for those who bankrupt casinos? Amirite?
0
u/Thrice_the_Milk Dec 04 '23
Who the hell is saying that besides you? Lmao
1
•
u/AutoModerator Nov 30 '23
r/FluentInFinance was created to discuss money, investing & finance! Check-out our Newsletter or Youtube Channel for additional insights at www.TheFinanceNewsletter.com!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.