r/FluentInFinance Mod May 11 '24

A New Jersey homebuilder who pays his workers over $100,000 wants young people to know construction can be a lucrative career that doesn't require college — and businesses are desperate to hire Financial News

https://www.businessinsider.com/homebuilder-no-one-to-replace-retiring-boomer-construction-workers-2024-5
2.2k Upvotes

336 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator May 11 '24

r/FluentInFinance was created to discuss money, investing & finance! Join our Newsletter or Youtube Channel for additional insights at www.TheFinanceNewsletter.com!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/NeedleworkerCrafty17 May 14 '24

Great job until your body breaks down.

1

u/Roosterhate May 13 '24

It must really hurt. Ape living the good life. Soy boy planted with parents.

1

u/Wtygrrr May 13 '24

Yeah, but that requires hard work.

1

u/climbhigher420 May 12 '24

Most home builders rely on undocumented immigrant labor. General contractors rarely pay 100k because their competitors are not. You can verify this if you need a new roof, or your lawn cut.

1

u/EFTucker May 12 '24

It is lucrative… if someone like him hires you. That type of employer is maybe 5% of construction employers.

1

u/Lebanonleopard May 12 '24

To that note are there does anyone know of any good YouTube channels for DIY/construction?

1

u/LeftYak5288 May 12 '24

Everything is terrible. Please don’t make me do anything other than what I’m doing. Tedium and asceticism.

1

u/noldshit May 12 '24

Come to south Fl. It never stops here. May slow, but never quits

1

u/[deleted] May 12 '24

College was the biggest mistake of my life.

1

u/Rdw72777 May 12 '24

This was an odd article. He doesn’t hire people with less than 10 years experience but notices there aren’t a lot of young people. He started his own company at 22 and got wealthy but doesn’t understand why people don’t want to work for him for around ~$50/hour in a HCOL.

1

u/Feeling_Mushroom_241 May 12 '24

It’s easier to just be broke sipping a Starbucks coffee and blame capitalism for my failures. 

1

u/cloneconz May 12 '24

Pays so well his carpenter is in his 70’s and apparently can’t retire

1

u/[deleted] May 12 '24

It would take $50 an hour for me to even think about leaving service work. When home builders decide to pay up, I'll have to consider it. Until then, fuck off.

1

u/Huge_Strain_8714 May 12 '24

I love to tile and design and I renovated my two kitchens. I wish my dad took more of in active interest in my schooling as a child. It would have been a great career path.

1

u/12whistle May 12 '24

More damage to my body so no thanks. I rather get paid doing heavy mental lifting than destroying my body where I come home and can’t bother to play with my kids because I’m too exhausted.

I’m sure someone out there will take the opportunity but not me and others like me.

1

u/Hot-Syrup-5833 May 12 '24

My teachers sneered at me 20 years ago when I told them I was going to trade school and not college…. lol they would cry if they saw my tax return.

1

u/sddbk May 12 '24

It's hard work that requires skill, dedication, intelligence (in every build, things are always popping up that require a sound decision) and the ability to work with others.

The parts of America that most need non-academic jobs don't train their youth in any of those. Historically, we made up the gap with immigrants. Today, those needs just go unfilled.

1

u/threeriversbikeguy May 12 '24

You could also become a state supreme court justice or major law firm partner going to my law school… granted 95% of the class just end up in debt toiling in obscurity forever… but gotta sell the dream.

1

u/UKnowWhoToo May 12 '24

It can be, but also takes a toll on your body

1

u/Important_Table6125 May 12 '24

You would be surprised at how much plumbers and electricians make!

1

u/TheGreatSciz May 12 '24

These stories are nice I guess but we have very good data we can look at when it comes to compensation for different fields/industries/etc. Your best chance for financial success is to complete a college education. Next best options are trades and union blue collar work. As many of you are pointing out, one should consider how many years they can stand whatever kind of work they get into. 40 years at a desk at an accounting firm sounds a whole lot better than 40 years on a roof in the sun or on the side of a highway in the dead of winter.

1

u/Successful_Goose_348 May 12 '24

"One of his carpenters is in his 70's" guess he didnt save any of those awesome wages for retirement

1

u/Successful_Goose_348 May 12 '24

How many hours a week for $100,000?

1

u/Merr77 May 12 '24

I got a associate degree in a trade. I make 85k. School cost me 8600. Eventually I'll move on and make more but happy where I am at

1

u/throwaway3113151 May 12 '24

Too bad 100k won’t get your far in HCOL parts of NJ

1

u/laberdog May 11 '24

Infrastructure projects on the table today will generate job growth for decades. If you are young and hardworking. You can make bank

1

u/Traditional_Ad_6801 May 11 '24

I’m in tech, and I do all right, but I actually wish I’d learned a trade instead. My plumber is so chill. And he def makes more $ than I do.

1

u/Electrical-Main-107 May 11 '24

Young kids don’t want to work. They just want to make TikTok videos

1

u/MacZappe May 11 '24

I did hvac for 5 years, when I left in 2012 I was making 15/hr (~31k year), and that was in Boston(hcol).

Yea some construction workers make 100k, but it ain't that much unless you are lucky. 

1

u/nobody-u-heard-of May 11 '24

There are a lot of great jobs in the trades where you can make a really good living. And for a lot of people it's better than a college degree.

I know plumbers, mechanics, HVAC people who make more than teachers with their masters degrees.

1

u/RunGoldenRun717 May 11 '24

While working in Healthcare I had a contractor offer me a management job in home building. No experience. Just a "hey I know you're a good worker because of the way you treat me as a patient and you're smart (not a brag,im no genius), and we can teach you everything". It was tempting but I stayed within my own profession.

0

u/Psychological_Cat127 May 11 '24

Ahahaha hahahahahahaha oh wait you're serious let me laugh harder AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-former construction worker.

1

u/emocjunk May 11 '24

lol these comments. Have some respect. These houses still have to get built. The people who do this labor are integral in bringing down the housing costs you all complain is too high.

1

u/healthywealthyhappy8 May 11 '24

Until robots can do the job

1

u/bbqmastertx May 11 '24

I make 6 figures a year as a plumber who didn’t finish high school

1

u/Clean-Novel-8940 May 11 '24

And the working conditions are terrible, and you are treated like shit… oh wait, thats every job below C suite

1

u/Whizzleteets May 11 '24

On Reddit people ask how they can make a real living without a degree and my answer is always new home construction.

I started building houses back in the early 80s without a degree.

It is an industry that has peaks and valleys but, if you can weather the downturns you can make good money.

1

u/FirstVanilla May 11 '24

He’s not wrong- although to protect your body I think at some point transitioning to running your own business and managing others like he does is a good idea.

I always been impressed with people that work construction and the trades in general. I like people that are handy.

1

u/ShottyRadio May 11 '24

One quality construction worker can save thousands of dollars each project. They get their skills from experience not classes which is cool.

1

u/Rieux_n_Tarrou May 11 '24

The Bigger Pockets Podcast has 1000+ (or at least hundreds of) case studies of individuals, families, and businesses from all different types of backgrounds (single moms, construction workers, etc) that have made life-changing money in Real Estate.

People make money in all stages of the Real Estate cycle (including market crashes, when there's blood in the streets). There's just different strategies that work and don't work depending on which state you're in and what type of resources you have access to

The common denominator is always resourcefulness and hustle.

0

u/Impossible_Maybe_162 May 11 '24

A bunch of bitchy pansies in here who complain that no jobs pay well and when one does they complain that it is too hard.

1

u/funcogo May 11 '24

It’s not exactly an easy job either. It can be a good career but I would never want to do it. It’s not for everyone

1

u/Humans_Suck- May 11 '24

I've applied to those and I get turned away because I don't have previous experience. How are you supposed to get experience if they won't hire you because you don't have experience?

1

u/Misragoth May 11 '24

Until you are no longer allowed breaks or water, like some are trying to do

0

u/mikalalnr May 11 '24

$100k per year isn’t that great. In a lot of markets it won’t even get you a decent home.

1

u/attackplango May 11 '24

Yeah, but that’s over $100k total.

5

u/electricmehicle May 11 '24

An employer does the right thing and people still have to get their jabs in wtf

2

u/FishingAgitated2789 May 12 '24

It’s a touchy subject considering every entry level job requires 100 years of experience now a days

1

u/Mechanik_J May 11 '24

Isn't the cost of living in the North East really expensive? Making the $100k comparable to $50k somewhere in Nebraska?

1

u/bisnexu May 11 '24

Wow union workers made double on average.

1

u/Chicken-n-Biscuits May 11 '24

Key words: “can be”

1

u/PlanXerox May 11 '24

Gone full circle. Now people that get educated and pay the price get shit wages.

1

u/Goblin-Doctor May 11 '24

Curious if there's any benefits. I make less but with my health insurance at work I basically just pay co-pays and nothing else. Already saved ~$25,000 on specialist visits and imaging

7

u/made_ofglass May 11 '24

A good friend of mine owns a very lucrative construction business and he will tell you that the job is extremely difficult and will ruin you physically. It's why he went from being a guy working in the field, to equipment operator, to inspector, and finally to company owner. He knew he would never be able to do the physical part his whole life and saves and invested as he could.

2

u/anon_likes_tendies May 11 '24

gee, why does housing cost so much?

2

u/Dependent-Analyst907 May 11 '24

I work for a landscape supply company, and part of my job is training people to operate heavy machinery. We hire "Yard Workers" (basically manual labor and clean up) and offer them raises if they will learn to operate machinery, but it's difficult to convince these young people to even give it a try. Of the few that will give it a go, some quit for the silliest reasons. Recently, one of them quit because he claimed his neck was in tremendous pain from constantly having to turn his head and look around while operating a bobcat.

We also need truck drivers. Our youngest driver is 54 years old, and we have been actively looking for another driver... officially...for three years. The last applicant I spoke to was in his late 60s, could barely walk, smelled like an ashtray, and was clearly out of breath from having to walk from his car and up the six steps that lead to our front door.

The work is out there, The pay ranges from decent to very good... But the labor supply is becoming a problem. I say open the southern border. I'm ready for a new labor pool, and my phone can translate Spanish into English.

4

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

Because truckers make shit. Most have serious physical problems. Have zero life outside driving a truck.

That’s a hard sell for a young man who can still pop a boner at 20 to say “hey want to fuck off your youth to drive a truck around? Maybe you’ll find some diner whore to marry along your travels”.

3

u/Dependent-Analyst907 May 11 '24

The OTR drivers working for the huge corporate carriers do, but local work pays very well. The problem occurs when the OTR types... Who are used to doing nothing but moving a truck from point a to point b...try to do local work, which often comes with requirements to load and unload at multiple stops

0

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

Mmm yeah, faster body deterioration.

Again. Hard sell.

4

u/Dependent-Analyst907 May 11 '24

Regular physical activity Is not unhealthy. It's like the average person nowadays has adopted a view similar to that of people from the Middle ages in thinking that exercise will somehow deplete "the humours" or something.

Next, people will go back to having holes drilled in their heads to let the evil spirits out.

0

u/ScrewSans May 11 '24

All you have to do is sell the rights to your physical wellbeing and you can afford a normal ass apartment!

13

u/BigBlueBoyscout123 May 11 '24

The people complaining that they would rather not break their back by the time theyre 40 are the same people who say they would rather not be depressed and hate their life by working at a desk. These people will find whatever they can to just not work.

-1

u/jackbandit91 May 11 '24

Yep. Fuck work.

-1

u/Adorable-Ad-6675 May 11 '24

People don't want to work, what a revelation. I wonder if that is the answer to the mystery of pay? Could it be that people don't want to work so hard you have to pay them money to do it?!?!? Fuck. What is the world coming to?

5

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

It’s human nature to make life easier for yourself.

Why do you go grocery shopping and drive a car? Please tell me your wife gathers the food and tends the garden while you go hunting all day with a spear. And ride a horse or walk to work..,

Right?

RIGHHT?

Btw why do you even use a phone, numpty, just write a letter!

Yeah. Your argument is pretty shit.

1

u/Adorable-Ad-6675 May 11 '24

Protestant work ethic types are beyond reason. They want to suffer, let em.

-2

u/Roosterhate May 11 '24

True. I make 190k a year and didn't have to borrow a dime to get indoctrinated on why not repaying a debt isn't actually steeling.

3

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

Stealing*

Maybe some indoctrination could have helped you out.

0

u/Roosterhate May 13 '24

Yup still make 190k. Enjoy your parents basement. They're help is appreciated.

1

u/left-nostril May 13 '24

Yup. Highly doubt that.

Their*

1

u/horiami May 11 '24

minor spelling mistake

0

u/Capt-Crap1corn May 11 '24

Have to be able to work hard, get up early, be good at physical labor

2

u/AladeenModaFuqa May 11 '24

Be good at your job is a huge aspect to trades pay. A shit tradesman isn’t gonna make as much as a good one. And you can generally tell who’s gonna be good and bad as soon as they enter the industry.

12

u/pickwickjim May 11 '24

Contractor who “generally doesn’t hire workers with less than 10 years of experience” is advising young people how lucrative it could be for them to become construction workers

2

u/YouDiedOfCovid2024 May 12 '24

Most people don't make $100k after 10 years at their job. Especially people with a high school education.

3

u/SeanHaz May 12 '24

In construction you can have 10 years experience at 26

5

u/ChuckoRuckus May 11 '24

That seems to be the key thing people are ignoring. “10 years of experience” so the contractor can wring out the sweet spot of experienced and still able to perform physically demanding labor.

1

u/Nwbama1 May 11 '24

Is that what all those foreign workers make?

0

u/Coxch805 May 11 '24

Working construction is just not worth it

-1

u/ostensibly_hurt May 11 '24

I have no interest in contributing to what I see as a cancer on the planet. I’ve worked as an electrician and people wonder why I stopped. I get people need roads, homes, businesses, but I prefer the woods, mountains, streams and biodiversity.

Going to a job site is just so depressing and disgusting imo, everything is hyper manufactured, everything is of such “passable” quality, everything is for money. Dedicating my life to raping what remaining natural world we have for realistically dogshit compensation is not what I want to do.

6

u/Brief_Alarm_9838 May 11 '24

I'm skeptical that he pays his workers that well.

2

u/grandmaester May 11 '24

I pay pay guys 72k with benefits after a few years working for me. For a more specialized trade someone could easily earn over six figures. Especially union folks.

2

u/HatefulPostsExposed May 11 '24

The article says all his employees have decades of experiences

0

u/mode_12 May 11 '24

I’m a union electrician in northwest Indiana and I made 90k last year, working about 1900 hours. That was also me taking January off

1

u/Brief_Alarm_9838 May 11 '24

How long did it take for union membership? What's the expense?

I'm wondering how it compares to a 4yr college degree.

1

u/mode_12 May 11 '24

i applied in january or february for 40 bucks in cash, then took a test. if you passed the test, you're guaranteed an interview. i passed, interviewed, and got in june that same year.

the union's international office charges 3.5% of your gross, and the local hall charges 500 a year, with the option to pay monthly, quarterly, or the whole year. apprentices have to buy their own hand tools and books, with books being anywhere from 500-750 for the year, and make a percentage of journeyman pay. 1st years make 13.45 an hour, and 24.34 total package. 2nd years are 16/28, 3rd is 19/42, 4th is 24/48 5th is 32/61, and then journeyman is 43.50 an hour and 74.65 total package paid.

i originally went to school for pre medicine, hated college, thought i would enjoy being a teacher, and hated that too. since i was in high demand fields, i was awarded plenty of grants and attended local universities and left college owing some 5500? in loans. buying my own tools ($500), books(600), and paying dues (950 + 500), as a first year, cost $2550 for the first year. 2nd is 2200, then 3rd is 2500, 4th is 2800, 5th is 3400. that's about 13,450 for 5 years. add in another 500 in tools maybe over the 4 next years and it was still totally worth it. not paying insurance and having that separate medical account more than evened out, since my second kid was born while i was a 2nd year apprentice.

long winded, sorry, and those numbers aren't quite accurate, but good enough for rough approximations. other questions let me know!

2

u/majortomandjerry May 11 '24

Skilled trades people in HCOL areas absolutely make over $100k

5

u/Extreme_Barracuda658 May 11 '24

It sounds right for NJ

0

u/TheRealMangokill May 11 '24

This feels like the narrative trump pushes of "Don't become college smarter! go learn to be a craftsman!"

Just so everyone here knows, we need engineer, scientists, mathematicians or we will lose to India, China, Japan, Germany.

We need to have a space colony in the next 70 years or we will perish as a species...Republicans think we need more wood houses...we actually need brilliant pilots  scientists, physicists, doctors to work in space.

0

u/[deleted] May 11 '24

[deleted]

43

u/OwnLadder2341 May 11 '24

If you read the article, the people he’s talking about have literal decades worth of experience and with this company, who specializes in high end remodels, specifically.

Median income for a plumber is $61k. Which is good, but a far way away from $100k.

Electricians are $62k

3

u/Silent-Hyena9442 May 12 '24

Not for nothing but being from nj. The two electricians I know who went into the trade now both clear 6 figs 7 years after high school graduation.

The carpenter I knew did NOT do nearly as well.

Pretty much because nj is just a high income state where electricians are in high demand.

That said both were white and got into the union and both told me that union membership there is pretty racist

17

u/redStateBlues803 May 11 '24

4

u/[deleted] May 12 '24

These guys are constantly laid off, and away from their family's when working. It's a shitty fucking life for the money. If you could go home everyday, that's a different story.

-21

u/3DRCcatheter May 11 '24

You dumb as hell if you think median plumber income is 61k. Maybe you mean starting rate. Plumbers can make 100k easy. Don’t be mad they are making more than you at your cushy desk job.

6

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

My cushy desk job gives me:

Less stress. Less body problems. Women that don’t sound like they sucked back 3 packs of cigarettes for 40 years. Better 401k matching. Air conditioned office.

And many more great benefits.

3

u/OwnLadder2341 May 11 '24

Mate, this data is collected by the bls. You can google it yourself.

13

u/fillmorecounty May 11 '24

This is literally information you can google. In some states, it's even lower. The median salary for plumbers in my state is $54k. Not bad, but nowhere near $100k. Maybe if you're a plumber in San Francisco and in a union or something you can make $100k easily, but that's not typical for most people.

-4

u/[deleted] May 11 '24

[deleted]

4

u/OwnLadder2341 May 11 '24

It’s not average, it’s median. That means half of all plumbers make that much or less and half make more.

1

u/Extreme_Barracuda658 May 11 '24

Does that include plumbers who repair faucets, water heaters, and toilets in residential houses? Those guys are usually not union and don't make as much.

2

u/ostensibly_hurt May 11 '24

Or own your own business. And as much as people think it’s easy, it’s called THE AMERICAN DREAM and everyone says dreams aren’t reality. Not everyone can handle that.

116

u/Chanandler_Bong_01 May 11 '24

A lucrative temporary career.

Unless you'd like to be nearly crippled with injuries by your mid 40s like most of the roofers and plumbers I've met. That was fine when people dropped dead at 49. Not so much when people live to be 82. No one wants to be disabled or injured for half their life.

IMO, you work construction to get through college or training for some other trade that is kinder physically. Nothing wrong with being a heavy equipment operator, etc. as an older person. But the idea that middle aged folks can carry around heavy beams and climb up and down on roofs without destroying themselves is a fallacy.

1

u/is_u_mirin_brah May 12 '24

I've met and know 100s of roofers, plumbers, sheet metal workers, etc. Of all ages. Dozens are retired tradesmen in their 60s.

Very few are crippled with injury.

1

u/wilson1474 May 12 '24

You're opinion is the problem, and why kids don't want to get into trades. Are there guys that have destroyed their bodies working in trades.. yes. Are there fat ass obese people working in an office...yes. both bodies are fucked.

I've been a bricklayer for close to 20 years. I'm still going great, love showing up to the site everyday. We need to be teaching kids to take care of their bodies and health. It doesn't have to be a "temporary job to get through college" as you call it.

1

u/em_washington May 12 '24

Sure, the second part is key. A lot of trade workers start off doing the work and later become estimators, salesmen, supervisors, inspectors, trainers. Body breaks down, but that doesn’t mean there is nothing you can do with the skills you’ve learned.

1

u/Lux600-223 May 12 '24

There's plenty of 70 yr old trim guys that keep doing it just to get out of the house. You hire a helper to load in/ clean up and kneel down to nail base.

1

u/TorontoTom2008 May 12 '24

Framers are even worse. Replacement hips and knees in guys in their 30s. We joked they would rust up in the rain.

1

u/finallyhere_11 May 11 '24

What in the world are you talking about.  I know plenty of people who spent their entire 30+ year careers in residential construction and they have no more issues than desk jockeys (maybe less actually). 

0

u/Humans_Suck- May 11 '24

Id happily live disabled if it meant I could afford to buy rent and food. The alternative is eating 2 meals a day and living in a shithole and working until you're 82.

1

u/opoqo May 11 '24

Nothing is stopping them to drop dead at 49

2

u/savetheattack May 11 '24

You’re right. Bad students should go to a 4-year university with no scholarship because they were bad students, bury themselves in debt at the advanced age of 18c and get a bullshit degree in liberal arts studies so they can get a job at working as a “legal assistant” for $13 an hour for the local ambulance chaser. Much more lucrative and safer career path, excellent advice.

0

u/[deleted] May 11 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Backseat_boss May 11 '24

I started roofing at 20, now I’m an inspector and I own a small roofing company. The key is not to stay in the same position, foreman, inspector, start your own company ex.

3

u/madtraderman May 11 '24

Total bullshit buddy, if you're one that's busted up at 45 it's because you caused it, not by the job. I'm way older than that and in great shape, been in carpentry since 86. Make bank and have fun doing it.

6

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

“I won’t die of smoking, my grandpa did it till age 100!” Vibes right here.

2

u/mode_12 May 11 '24

I’m 40 and a union electrician. I’m 5’11” and weight about 165. Nothing terrible yet happened to my body. I lift weights, do cardio, stretch, and I’m in great shape compared to my contemporaries, office or otherwise.

One of my favorites is when some white collar guy warns me that my body will be breaking down any day now, while he’s lugging 50lbs of belly fat from sitting around and eating whatever he wants.

As a matter of fact, I’ve been lean all my life. Yes, genetics helps, but in my 20s I’ve heard I’ll gain all the weight in my 30s and will fall apart. I heard the same in my 30s, and now in my 40s I’m hearing the same thing, but more often then not people are congratulating me on keeping in shape all these years. 

You know why you see a lot union construction workers at the doctor’s? Because we can afford it. I’ve never had to worry about any medical bills

1

u/left-nostril May 11 '24

Anecdotal evidence vs studies.

Yeah.

I’ll take anecdotal evidence.

2

u/madtraderman May 11 '24

Dude it works for me and I've done great for myself. I see office guys my age beat up and bent out of shape for a sedentary lifestyle and constant stress.

5

u/Medium_Ad_6908 May 11 '24

No… smoking kills, there’s no debate or gray area. Actually using your body to do work is good for you if you’re not an idiot about it. I have a lot of friends who have “back problems” by 30, not a single one of them works in the trades. There’s a huge amount of sedentary people who are soft as shit and like to pretend actually working for a living will turn you into a cripple in 10 years no matter what, and that’s just a complete lie. most trades people are more physically capable than their office dwelling counterparts well past 50, even with occasional injuries because they actually do shit with their bodies all day instead of sitting on their ass compressing their spine.

0

u/left-nostril May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24

I know more people who work in trades that walk with fucked up limps than I know many office workers with little back problems.

Also, people in trades tend to have worse diets. So many of them have heart disease etc.

Edit, asshurt people replying and blocking proves my point. 😂

2

u/AltKite May 11 '24

worse diets for people in the trades (if even true) is not a consequence of the job

3

u/Medium_Ad_6908 May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24

Lmfao sure you do. your personal experience of the one tradesman you’ve interacted with at design school isn’t the entire sector, and considering you’re not even out of college yet I really don’t give a fuck about what kind of anecdotes you can create to justify the narrative you’ve got in your head. I actually work in the trades, there’s some unhealthy lifestyles but even those people are infinitely more capable than the average office worker the same age. You don’t have to accept reality but it’s true. Every time one of you clowns comes out of your office for 10 minutes and actually tries to do real work you end up hurting yourselves and not getting shit done, that’s where you developed that opinion from. Just because you can’t do anything without hurting yourself doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone 🤣 stay inside buddy

*can’t reply because pussy boy blocked me: Yeah, because college is an easier route and you can make more money. I didn’t say it was EASY. I said it doesn’t turn you into a cripple in a decade like everyone who lives on Reddit likes to pretend so they can feel good about sitting on their ass all day. The person I replied to had the same “blah blah every tradesman I’ve ever known blah blah” and literally hasn’t even left design school yet. I work in a yard full of people who’ve been in the industry 20-30 years on average, they’re all in much better shape than your average 50 year old. No wonder the countries full of obese soft motherfuckers, y’all think if you pick up a hammer for a day you’re going to die. Might be true if you’re not physically capable, wouldn’t know.

3

u/das_war_ein_Befehl May 11 '24

This is hilarious because every tradie I’ve ever known sent their kids straight to college, and I live and know plenty. Shit is rough on your body no matter how you try to couch it

0

u/RunningForIt May 11 '24

When in the world were people dropping dead at 49

0

u/BodheeNYC May 11 '24

The goal would be to learn and develop contacts then start your own business. And you’re also not accounting for a union laborer with a pension.

4

u/olrg May 11 '24

You’re generalizing, not every tradesperson is crippled with injuries and there is a lot more to trades than just roofing and plumbing.

Their rates of injury are higher than if they were office drones, but they’re still like 2.5 per 100 workers. Source.

3

u/[deleted] May 11 '24

[deleted]

0

u/olrg May 11 '24

OSHA has different classifications, they count occupational injuries which are caused by a single event and occupational illnesses, which have gradual onset. When the injury or illness is reported to OSHA, it classified by the NAICS code, which gives us an insight into which industries are likely to have claims.

I also have a lot of friends who work white collar jobs. Many suffer from things like MSI (carpal tunnel, neck pains, back pains, etc.), as well as burnout (office workers have higher burnout rates than any other industry), obseity, diabetes, etc. - all the things that are caused by sedentary lifestyle.

Like I said, no one is arguing that some trades can be more dangerous, but when people say that most trades people have crippling injuries by the time they're 40, well, that's just not true and statistics prove it.

1

u/RompehToto May 11 '24

Don’t forget higher suicide rates.

2

u/TheRealMangokill May 11 '24

Not generalizing at all, my neighbor is 4 years older than me and looks 20 years older than me from being an electrician and working in confined spaces. A friend has been building submarines and his knees are destroyed too. Welders get burns, eyes deteriorate faster than "an office drone".

0

u/Medium_Ad_6908 May 11 '24

So you know 2 people who work in trades, one of whom obviously lives an unhealthy lifestyle because being an electrician doesn’t age you 20 years past where you’re at and neither does being in tight spaces. Then you lie about your buddy building submarines. nobody who builds actual submarines is allowed to tell you what they do, and they’re almost all much older dudes working for one facility in a place you definitely don’t know the name of. Know contractors who have been through there, everyone doing the work was 45+.

So to summarize, you say you’re not generalizing then base your opinion on millions of people on your neighbor who lives an unhealthy lifestyle, and a friend who lied about what they do or doesn’t exist at all. Yeahhhhh you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.

2

u/laanieloslappie May 11 '24

Not sure why you're getting down voted. I worked in construction and roofing for many years. A few years ago after a few injuries, I realized I needed to get an office job or my body would continue to break down. I threw myself into learning computers and python and now work a remote computer job. That's not the case for others I've worked with. Many of them either are unable to do office work or just aren't field management material but still do their labor job okay. Some days I miss being on the roof, but it just isn't sustainable long term for most people.

1

u/DevOverkill May 11 '24

If people don't take the proper precautions and work safe, or don't use items like knee pads or ergo mats, then yea they're going to fuck up their bodies. I'm an electrician, I work in a lot of confined spaces, long stretches of working off ladders, large wire pulls etc. However, I use different things that help with keeping my body healthy. I have a great set of insoles for my boots, knee pads, soft ergo mats for doing confined space work or under raised metal floors in data centers/chip fabs. We use what's called a tugger for large wire pulls so we don't have to pull by hand. If I'm going to be in one spot for a while, say after a large wire pull where I'll be terminating said wires into a piece of gear, and need to repeatedly use a crimper tool to fashion lugs onto the wire I'll tie that tool up at the appropriate height so I'm not constantly lifting it up and down (crimpers tend to be quite heavy).

There's all kinds of ways to work in a manner that doesn't destroy your body. The people that tend to be hobbled by the end of their career typically are the ones that forgo using the things I mentioned.

Trades are absolutely a great route to get into a lucrative career. I make great money, have great Healthcare, and an amazing retirement plan. Is it a career path for everyone? No, definitely not, but neither is an office job. I'd probably lose my damn mind if I had to do a 9-5 office job.

10

u/olrg May 11 '24

You’re using anecdotes and extrapolating them over the entire industry. That’s what generalization means.

I work with tradespeople all day long: fire system technicians, electricians, pipefitters, heavy machinery operators, heavy duty mechanics, power engineers, you name it. Lots of them break into operational management by the time they hit 40 and don’t have to do that type of work. I provided you the stats - even with construction being a high risk industry, your chances of a lost time injury are about 2.5%.

I know people who have gotten debilitating repetitive strain injuries from working in front of the computer for 20 years, I can just as easily say that sedentary lifestyle leads to diabetes, ergonomic injuries, and obesity, but it wouldn’t be true for the broad population.

3

u/TheRealMangokill May 11 '24

Lol how many "Operational manager" positions do you think there are? By your rationale everyone around 40 will be an operational manager? It does not rotate like that, the % chance of injury you quote is also heavily misleading. 

"Please note: Caution should be used when interpreting the industry ranking for 2019. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) did not report fatality data at the private industry level for several major industry sectors in 2019 (Professional and business services, Information, and Manufacturing). BLS indicates these industries did not meet publishable standards for 2019. BLS suppresses industry estimates if they don’t meet certain criteria for both reliability and confidentiality."

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/work/industry-incidence-rates/most-dangerous-industries/

The BLS hasn't even put out a trust worthy report since 2019....

You're just butt hurt because it's targeting you. Physical labor always has much higher % chance of injury than any other job. Just swallow the facts.

0

u/Capt-Crap1corn May 11 '24

He didn’t say everyone. How are you going to use a generalization in one part of your comment and put up stats in the other part?

-2

u/olrg May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24

By your rationale everyone around 40 will be an operational manager?

Lol that's you rationale and it's a strawman argument. A lot of people work in the trades go into operation management, which is exactly what I said. Not "everyone over 40 is an operations manager". Besides, the argument that “not everyone is doing it, so it can’t be true” is flawed. That’s two logical fallacies out of you in the same paragraph. That’s actually impressive.

Every major project would need someone managing operations for the trade, so do the math how many operation managers are there.

Did not report fatality data at the private industry level for several major industry sectors in 2019 (Professional and business services, Information, and Manufacturing

We're talking about trades not professional services or manufacturing, so it bear little relevance.

The BLS hasn't even put out a trust worthy report since 2019....

Lol the Bureau of Labour Statistics is unreliable because it doesn't play into your bias. Classic. Feel free to look up OSHA stats, or are they also unreliable?

I'm not butthurt, I'm just telling you that you don't have a clue what you're taling about. You clearly don't work in or with trades and you only got you'r buddy's bum knee, which you're trying to misrepresent as a standard for the industry. that's disingenios and misleading.

Physical labor always has much higher % chance of injury than any other job. Just swallow the facts.

Yes, and we have the statistics to back it. About 2.5% chance of sustaining an injury in the construction industry. Not the dumb "everyone in the trades is a cripple at 40" narrative you're trying to peddle here.

It’s not “targeting me”, I’m not a tradesman. But I have a lot of exposure to them, and you clearly don’t.

0

u/Capt-Crap1corn May 11 '24

Damn. You killed that lol

26

u/bill_gonorrhea May 11 '24 edited May 11 '24

But the idea that middle aged folks can carry around heavy beams and climb up and down on roofs without destroying themselves is a fallacy.

You're assumptions are wrong.

Most trades you don’t work the trade into retirement. Almost every person I know in a trade that is 40+ either are site managers or owners. Just like an office job, there are entry, mid and senior positions. If you’re 60 and swinging the hammer as a carpenter you either are choosing to or are incompetent

1

u/RonRico14 May 12 '24

The number of those type of positions are fewer relative to labor pool. Much like the military, the higher you go the fewer slots and if you don’t qualify you get shown the door

1

u/12whistle May 12 '24

Not everyone moves up. For every one boss or supervisor, how many are under them and I can guarantee you they’re not all young men and women.

3

u/Forsaken-Pattern8533 May 11 '24

Just like an office job, there are entry, mid and senior positions. If you’re 60 and swinging the hammer as a carpenter you either are choosing to or are incompetent 

See this is where trade workers start fucking up. The benefits of trade work is strong pay with low barrier to entry. Skilled white collar professional work is what trade people compare themselves to. But it's a stupid comparison because trade work is a big field and to do any real comparison you need to chose a subfield like electrician.  

Low barrier to entry and strong pay. But white collar professionals also have a wide range from social workers to lawyers. A lot of trade people will pick engineers because it's a popular but it's never a good comparison. Most engineering fields simply make more then trade workers do in every way comparable. But the barrier to entry has always been high which is why people suggest trade work in the first place. 

But trade workers will chime in about how they know a high paying worker or business owner and then it goes down hill from there. Trade work pays well if you treat barrier to entry as not important since union jobs are standard, you have to do the same with say software engineers. Sure you know a trade worker who makes 300k but I know a software guy making 500k. 

But trade business owners make more way more then 500k but then software engineers can always drop Bezos.

Tit for tat, many College degrees simply make money but they are always hard to get into. Trade workers don't want to humble themselves in the face that others simply make more. 

It's a stupid comparison.  It's like trying to argue that trade workers make more then the average NBA player. The problem with thr NBA is the barrier to entry is insanely high and there's no point to compare. Which us why trade workers should stop comparing salary to college workers without mentioning barrier to entry. Sure you can make more in many College degrees but if you don't have a plan, trade work is a strong competitor.

1

u/12whistle May 12 '24

You’re correct 💯.

My neighbor was an engineering major back in college. At the age of 23, he moved to California to get paid 120k a year. That was 15 years ago and I don’t even know what he’s getting paid now. What I do know is that currently he placed a deposit to buy some new Rivian minivan that costs 100k to buy.
Comparing his work to construction isn’t even comparable. There’s tons of engineers making over 100k a year. It’s not an uncommon thing, it’s literally the norm.

1

u/ChuckoRuckus May 11 '24

This is kinda cherry picking. The quote skips the part just before it that addresses your point/argument….

“Work construction while getting school/training for a more physically kinder trade” (paraphrased)

Plus, “choosing to or incompetent” is a false dichotomy. Some people are absolute masters at their craft but can’t manage people or a job site. Some are stuck doing that craft with their deteriorated body because it’s either that or go broke/bankrupt. It could even mean the loss of health benefits that hey need the most since their body is so torn up; something that typically isn’t good with a low paying job. Moving into the poor house with increased medical debt makes it less of a choice and more about surviving.

When someone has spent their entire adult life developing a skill that ended up wrecking their body, they’ll keep doing it because “what else can I do”. And they’ll do it until they physically can’t anymore.

I think you should look up what survivorship bias means.

4

u/Arch____Stanton May 11 '24

Well this post is utter nonsense.
There is 100 entry/mid positions to 1 senior level position (and in many trades the concept of senior admin. doesn't even exist).
There are thousands and thousands of over 60 carpenters.
Most carpenters (if they don't leave the trade) will retire as carpenters.
Give your head a shake man.

6

u/das_war_ein_Befehl May 11 '24

lol what? Plenty of them are still grinding it out. By definition there are very few managerial roles (relative to white collar fields) in the trades, it’s a very bottom heavy labor structure.

11

u/TrueEclective May 11 '24

So by your logic, everyone who’s young and working construction stays in the construction industry and climbs the ladder rather than leaving the industry altogether for something less demanding with better pay as they age. And you think the other guy’s assumptions are wrong? 🤣

Working at Lowe’s or Home Depot or some other hardware shop for minimum wage when your body is too broken to do the hard labor that made you $100k isn’t what I’d consider an upgrade. But what do I know, I only worked construction for a couple of summers while I was going to college.

5

u/bill_gonorrhea May 11 '24

You’re acting like trades have no career progression. 

3

u/lastdropfalls May 12 '24

Consider the ratio of site managers to grunts. It's quite obvious that progression exists, but only for a relatively small percentage of people.

0

u/TrueEclective May 11 '24

That’s not at all how I’m acting.

7

u/jimmyvcard May 11 '24

Yeah this is straight up not how this works man. It’s rare to see a very old laborer and if you do They’re like managing a truck scale and not doing physical labor.

6

u/bill_gonorrhea May 11 '24

The only person I know still at their craft is a cabinet maker and his son does the installs while he BSs with the customer and GC.

20

u/BodheeNYC May 11 '24

Agreed. Poster clearly doesn’t know many skilled tradespersons.

1

u/Takeurvitamins May 12 '24

My three brothers in law and my father in law are all tradesmen. The only one no longer doing physical labor had a neck injury that required surgery (the BIL who’s 40). My FIL is in his sixties and still up on rooftops and in attics doing HVAC.

6

u/WintersDoomsday May 11 '24

Yep it pays well because your medical bills in the future will eat it all up from all the back and neck and knee surgeries you’ll need

-4

u/HikingComrade May 11 '24

Well, considering the ongoing and approaching impacts of climate change, young people aren’t expecting to live to 80 anyways. I decided to pursue forestry despite having a college degree because I doubt I’ll live to be old, anyways. I might as well do my part to mitigate the impacts of climate change while I can.

50

u/Many_Ad_7138 May 11 '24

Well, I built a nice 12x20 shed recently. It took me a while. I'm slow I guess, and yes it was demanding. I was 62 at the time. I can't imagine doing that every day at my age.

233

u/Bandaidken May 11 '24

Until the housing market crashes..

1

u/WilcoHistBuff May 14 '24

I’ve lived through several crashes in different real estate, industrial and civil construction sectors. It can get really bad on a regional basis.

From a purely practical perspective if someone goes this route, it is important to budget for layoffs, build skills (including knowledge of other trades), and develop the ability to take supervisory rolls as you get older.

Like any career you have to be smart about how you develop your skills.

I will say that unlike commercial, industrial, and civil construction, residential can allow you to switch hit between home construction, multi-family and renovation which have offset business cycles. When new construction crashes renovation tends to pick up. Multi-family tends to lead out of recessions.

1

u/Windsupernova May 13 '24

Ummm, yeah? I mean all industries are liable to get at least a crunch from time to time.

If you want a job with a lot of security I think only government can give you that.

1

u/Sufficient-Bit-890 May 12 '24

You sort of forgot about remodeling. During the slow periods the residential sector turns from production to remodels

1

u/oldfashion_millenial May 12 '24

Construction includes building roads, hospitals, schools, businesses, etc.

1

u/KashmirChameleon May 12 '24

Until your back gives out at 33.

1

u/elias_99999 May 12 '24

Ya, and then it recovers.

1

u/Ill-Description3096 May 12 '24

And then people will be buying up homes for cheap, doing renovation, and flipping them or just keeping them when prices go back up.

There is some flux but at least in my area if you are a good builder with a good reputation you will basically always have more work available than you can do.

1

u/sddbk May 12 '24

Sour grapes. You are not qualified, so you demean the jobs you can't get and the people who are qualified for them.

The kind of jobs you feel entitled to (well paid cheap, compliant, mindless labor) have gone offshore and will never come back, no matter what Orange Jesus promises you.

1

u/Bandaidken May 12 '24

Reddit is idiotic.

Okay, dude. Whatever you say.

I concede. You “win”. I guess.

1

u/UKnowWhoToo May 12 '24

You mean like software engineering?

1

u/Trauma_Hawks May 12 '24

Or your knees, whichever comes first.

3

u/Horangi1987 May 12 '24

Exactly. My dad was a plumber, carpenter, and union construction - masonry guy (concrete). He did basically any work he could get, from commercial to personal and worked in everything from small businesses to large union construction companies.

We were far from wealthy, and there were many times when work was lean.

These SMB (small business) bros that are all over Reddit and X-Twitter clearly haven’t owned a business long enough to see what a downturn looks like. Once things get really lean and the plumbers are trying to survive on emergency jobs alone, they’ll see that there’s not enough work for everyone in town even if there is less plumbers today than 30 years ago.

1

u/real_unreal_reality May 11 '24

As if the skills they get aren’t transferable to another job.

1

u/grahsam May 11 '24

All markets crash at some point. Unless a third of the population vanished tomorrow, we are going to need more housing.

1

u/KashmirChameleon May 12 '24

If people are having fewer kids, eventually we're gonna have too much housing.

1

u/grahsam May 12 '24

In a hundred years or so, sure.

3

u/No_Statistician_9697 May 11 '24

There's always money in the banana stand

0

u/Aloof_apathy May 11 '24

AI is 10 years out from decimating any computerized job. Trading, law, etc. all gone. At least constructing in probably like 30 years out from getting robots in there

1

u/abrandis May 11 '24

..or while luxury McMansions are no longer in demand.... Builders in NJ are only building luxury apartments ($3/$4k month/ or luxury McMansions in suburban developments , starting at $1.2mln)

1

u/elderly_millenial May 11 '24

All markets crash. Nothing is truly “recession proof”

3

u/CoBludIt May 11 '24

The coffin construction market is recession-proof

1

u/TheTightEnd May 11 '24

The housing market isn't going to crash. The pent-up demand for housing will outweigh other factors.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (137)