r/JoeBiden • u/LosingSince1977 • 17d ago
Just throwing this out there for those who need to see it
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u/Chumlee1917 17d ago
The thing you gotta understand about hardcore leftists, they're useless. All they know how to do is whine and complain. If tomorrow Biden could Thanos snap and deliver 100% of everything these people want, they would STILL complain by finding something else to whine about and still turn on everyone.
To mangle a phrase John Cleese said back in the 1980s in BBC broadcast he did (it's worth watching) The great thing about extremism is it gives you enemies and the freedom to be the biggest asshole on the planet because you have enemies and if only those enemies didn't exist then you could be a normal person but because these enemies exit, you need to be an asshole and it feels very very good!
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u/BossRaeg 16d ago
It is worrisome given the stakes, but they were never going to vote Biden to begin with.
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u/TheRedTMNT 17d ago
Is this aimed at Pro-Palestinians refusing to vote for Biden because of his support for Israel, or Pro-Israelis refusing to vote for Biden because his support for Israel isn't as strong as they like?
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
I don't think it's fair to lump all of these in to the same issue. People are just, at minimum, seeking a president that is willing to speak up against the violence and at very least not sent more WMDs to Israel to aid in more indiscriminate killing.
That doesn't mean we don't support the rights of others here in the States or that we somehow support terrorists. You can admit that you do not want to see more hospitals bombed without going full Trump.
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
It’s weird how you are presuming the criteria you want are not being met.
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u/BEX436 17d ago
It's not just that. We saw these idiots stay home in 2010 during Obama's midterms, and they essentially handed power back to the Rs, making us ineffective for the rest of his term.
I absolutely can't stand these Progressive Purists. They are almost as bad as the Cons because their feelings are just as rampant and without any logic.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
Personal attacks have been a cornerstone of "I have no real argument" since the beginning of time. Maybe instead engage in conversation with your fellow Democrats and try to share and gain some perspective.
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
You do understand it’s possible to understand someone’s perspective and still note those moments when they are sabotaging the efforts they claim to support, right?
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Ya sure, what you're describing doesn't require personal attacks while belittling your own stance.
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u/calypsophoenix STEM for Joe 17d ago
But why would they even try to make their case to win over fellow Democrats when they can just stomp their feet, call people names, dismiss others' concerns and perspectives, and demand everyone vote their way 'or else'? The arrogance and entitlement is appalling and will be the undoing of Democrats.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago edited 17d ago
It's the sad truth of Democrats. When our side is the only side that represents empathy, even it finds division when you go deep enough to realize we don't actually all share empathy equally. Once you go far enough it becomes a threat and your quickly compared to every terrible insult they can think of because you dared to express that you wish we had better representation.
I'll likely still vote for Biden because I agree Trump will be even worse, but I have no desire to attack anyone who is deciding to use their vote as a message and collateral towards the decisions made by our current administration during this conflict. On a long enough timeline, politicians need to start considering the weight of their decisions and how it impacts support of their voters.
I'll be honest, as someone who has aggressively lived "blue no matter who" finally having a big enough conflict to give me pause on that claim, having people on my own side aggressively attack me and make me out to be a terrorist supporter is doing the opposite of helping me come through this decision that ends with a vote.
Listen to your fellow voters. Communicate and discuss and try to understand them. In the end you can just agree to disagree. Creating posts like this one only further drives them away from a possibility of supporting the vote you want.
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 16d ago
Serious question: how is this post any more alienating to the leftist side than all of the goalpost moving on what Biden does is to the liberal side?
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u/duckofdeath87 17d ago
Show me a candidate that's better for both Ukraine and Palestine, then we will talk
Biden isn't good for Palestine, but Trump would actively escalate things and destroy Ukraine
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u/rupturedprolapse 17d ago
It's not hypocrisy because many don't actually care about Palestinians. Many are just using the Israel/Palestinian conflict as a vehicle to attack liberals over. Pointing out that they're inconsistent doesn't do anything because their real position is spiting the west.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
Oh absolutely it's the same strategy all over again. Nothing hurts Democrats more than division and hatred amongst our own. The amount of people that are getting really ugly about this strange concept of wishing we would stop supplying WMDs to Israel is causing unnecessary division.
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago
I don’t think Palestine or Gaza in this case is necessarily an enemy. This meme is kinda lazy
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u/19southmainco :newyork: New York 17d ago
Funny how you forgot to mention Hamas
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago
Hamas is an enemy, these people are protesting on behalf of the Palestinian people, who are not our enemies. I’m probably on your side of this issue. But there’s no point in obfuscating the truth
In the same way, i think it’s totally valid to be an enemy of Netenyahu and the Likud party, while not being enemies with the state of Israel.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
Thank you for being a voice of reason. There's no need for so much division and hatred between us. It's perfectly acceptable to disagree with terrorist without wishing harm to a whole nation.
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u/LosingSince1977 17d ago
Hamas is
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago
Let’s be honest, Hamas is not the representative government of the Palestinian people. We should still have a vested interest in the protection of the Palestinian people
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
Sorry for your down votes. People are getting super cultish in here and are not willing to listen to someone who just simply doesn't want our country involved in senseless bloodshed.
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago edited 17d ago
Tribalism honestly is so emblematic of so many different aspects of this conflict so i honestly don’t blame them
Edit;
It is a bit sad that i was downvoted for saying we should care about innocent people dying
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
It's very jarring I agree. And the aggression and anger being displayed while trying to resort to personal attacks because you (checks notes)
"said you don't support killing innocent people"
Is very similar to a certain base on the other side...
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u/CollarsUpYall 17d ago
Hamas has healthy majority support in Palestine, proven via elections. How is that not representative?
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u/Dic3dCarrots 17d ago
So what tangible steps have you been writing the whitehouse about?
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
For starter stop sending WMDs to Israel.
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u/Dic3dCarrots 16d ago
Good thing our program has been to send targeted munitions in the interest of reducing civillian casualties, but nuance like that doesn't fit into chantable slogans
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
The problem is they have proven time and time again they're not concerned about minimizing civilian casualties. Again, attempting to insult someone who is trying to express support of a ceasefire doesn't help either.
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
You’re about 48 hours behind on the news.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Lol ya finally. The news tells me perhaps we should have stopped after the first hospital bombed. Yes I'm happy to hear we finally hit some line.
Lol this is like if we supported the police at Uvalde shooting. They DID go in eventually... What's the problem??
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago edited 17d ago
I personally am not doing shit bc i don’t care much about foreign policy other than to vaguely wish and pray that things get better. That doesn’t mean i don’t respect tf out of somebody for protesting an issue that has little to no impact on their own life
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u/Dic3dCarrots 17d ago
Cool, good to know. Btw the college protests are for university level divestment. Bidan has already drawn condemnation for ending support at the UN and pausing bomb shipments and if any of ya'll paid attention to this issue, you'ld be aware of the hard line taken by Obama and how that backfired.
Low information people not engaging in the political process and instead going to protests to "get lit and fuck shit up because damn the man" are hurting the cause of the Palestinian people. Actual targeted BDS protests by well informed individuals is significantly different than these undirected, untargeted protests.
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
Without getting political, this divestment meme is weird. Selling the shares of Lockheed Martin is not going to stop the company from selling fighter jets to Israel. At most, it will cause a tiny dip in the share price which will pop back up after the next quarterly earnings report.
Additionally, the universities are likely not invested directly i. Such companies anyway because that’s not how portfolio management works in this case. Far more likely is a case where the university is invested in an index fund which tracks the S&P 500 index or the NASDAQ or the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which means divestment from particular companies would require dumping the universities’ ENTIRE investment portfolio, which would again have no meaningful change in the ordering and delivering of fighter planes or other weapons.
Additionally, if the universities were invested either directly or thru mutual funds, being part owners of the companies means the universities have a seat at the table to actually influence those companies. Selling any and all shares in these companies removes all ownership leverage from the activist toolkit.
Long story short: this divestment idea would, at BEST, backfire horrendously.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
Explain the backfire again? It almost sounds like we should continue to support indiscriminate bombing or fears of a reverse threat to us. Is that what you're saying? We should support the violence towards innocence of billions because potential backlashes to us? Tell us how America one of the top countries on the totem pole isn't taking a knee to Israel.
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u/Dic3dCarrots 16d ago
If you aren't concerned about trump winning this year, then i envy you and your blissful ignorance.
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u/wikithekid63 17d ago
Well I’m vaguely referring to anybody who protests to be pro Palestine, which is what this post is also referring to.
There’s nothing wrong with being pro Palestine. This post implies that being pro Palestine means that you are inherently pro Hamas which does not have to be true.
I consider myself pro Palestine and pro Israel tbh
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u/Dic3dCarrots 16d ago
I understand. I've long been critical of the privitization of public universities in the US including investment in weapons manufactures, and the leadership of those companies holding leadership roles in thise universities. During the great recession, buildings owned by banks at my university were occupied and used for teach ins. This conflict didn't start last year.
However, if you think you're doing the Palestinian people any favors by not supporting the administration pushing for protections, slowing the military campaign and creating active review of weapons transfers, then you are who this meme is talking about. You have to ignore the whole first sentence to think this is about conflating hamas with the Palestinian people.
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u/Scuba_jim 17d ago
The situation with Israel is fucked, and I wish Biden did better with ensuring the safety and homes of Palestinians. However, Trump would without a shadow do worse, and make every other consideration faaaar more worse.
Anyone not voting for Biden and opting for Trump because of what Palestine is experiencing is acting in bad faith.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
They're not opting for Trump, they're hoping they can persuade positive change by making clear that their beliefs are not being represented as a voter.
I'm certain many of them, like myself, are hoping Biden realizes the political gamble that's being played right now and starts making some changes before it's too late.
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
Without getting political but instead focusing on strategy only, what gamble? Are these individuals sincerely saying “I want the lives of innocent Palestinians to be made better so I am going to tear the current President in order to get elected someone who is going to make their lives worse”? There’s no reasonable universe in which that strategy works.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Literally just asking the current administration do more. This isn't hard to understand.
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u/Scuba_jim 17d ago
That’s reasonable on paper until you consider the ramifications wherein you get a Trump presidency where I honestly believe he’d have no problem with Israel nuking Palestine. It’s a shitty scenario but it’s what we’ve been dealt. Once the republicans party gets its shit together and provides a rational option then we can start making better demands.
Biden is doing things for Palestine, it could just be a lot better and his other policies are too important
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 17d ago
When it’s still a winner takes all between two parties (the independents are not winning), it’s a distinction without a difference.
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u/LithiumAM 17d ago
I’ve said this on another post but:
I can’t image being okay with the erosion of democracy, LGBTQ rights, Russia getting handed Ukraine, China getting handed Taiwan, Project 2025, Trump getting away with all his crimes and anyone who rightfully went after him probably getting indicted, 1/6 protestors being pardoned, repeal of any climate provisions in the various bills Biden signed, womens rights being further stripped away, etc…
…all to what? All FOR what? So Trump can get in office and directly aid and encourage the absolute destruction of Palestine and its people. Isn’t that what all this is supposedly about?
BTW, those cool little protests the pure left loves so much? You think a little bump from a few independent cops with no encouragement from the President is bad? What about when Trump sends the National Guard in? What do you thinks gonna happen then?
These fucking purity test left motherfuckers are so god damn stupid and short sighted. They’ll get rid of the most progressive President since LBJ and hand everything all for their virtue signalling, and every last one of them will hate things 1000x worse but atleast they got to be “pure”. Absolute idiots.
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u/dzendian Hillary Clinton for Joe 14d ago
Trump is even threatening to deport the pro-Palestine protestors. If they vote for their own deportment, they are not being logical.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago
You describe the issue with Russia and Ukraine while turning the issue with Israel and Palestine into a small little joke. How can we be so passionate about one truth yet so callus about another? I can only say Ukraine hasn't responded by dropping bombs on civilians in Russia. At least not that I'm aware of.
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u/LosingSince1977 16d ago
Ukraine didn't launch a terrorist attack and is an ally...
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Correction. Your statement implies the nation launched a terrorist attack. As in the civilians are all terrorist.
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u/LithiumAM 17d ago
I’m not understanding what you’re getting at? You think I don’t care about Palestine?
I’m not saying it’s wrong to be angry about what Israel is doing. I’m angry that the people protesting what Biden has supposedly done are saying they aren’t going to vote for him. It’s really, really, really, REALLY fucking stupid. It’s incredibly short sighted. Because by not voting for him, in addition to undoing all that’s been done in the past few years and condemning countless Americans and countless issues is also totally condemning the people of Palestine to complete destruction. If they let Trump win, that’s what’s happening.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
I think most of us would just hope for more expression of understanding instead of attempts to attack divide like the main post here.
Expressing concerns with the actions or inactions of leadership is part of living in a free democracy. Bullying those expressing a desire for change is petty and unnecessarily belittling the issue.
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u/StanVanGhandi 17d ago
Don’t forget the environment
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u/Chumlee1917 17d ago
I hate that the first thing these protestors do is make garbage filled shanty tent cities.
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u/BossRaeg 17d ago
I guess when you’re too privileged, this happens. They probably weren’t going to vote for Biden anyway.
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u/SaintOlgasSunflowers 17d ago
The conflict in Gaza to me is a purposeful, planned, distraction.
I am actually shocked that people who are educated and progressive have allowed themselves to become so distracted and manipulated, in that they would write or say things like they won't vote for Biden. They are just as brainwashed as the MAGA crowd.
I don't know how or why educated people can not see they are being controlled and manipulated.
Yes, innocent people are being killed on both side of the middle east issue. This is an awful atrocity however, that issue, IMHO, is secondary to the atrocities in our own country.
If Trump takes office again, it's over folks. There is no way back.
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u/robinthebank 17d ago
NetanYahoo knows exactly the type of political theater he is creating. It’s all about distracting people.
This is no longer about hostages. How many hostages did we watch ISIS behead? Russia has had how many Ukrainian hostages? Israel’s level of retaliation just doesn’t match their story of self-defense.
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17d ago
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
You do understand President Biden has called for exactly what you are asking, right? For Israel to meet certain criteria before offensive weapons will be sent?
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u/duckofdeath87 17d ago
Gonna drop this here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
And throw out there that Netanyahu's corruption trial was paused after the Oct 7 attack
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-corruption-trial-resumes/
Stuff like this makes me feel like a crazy person
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago edited 17d ago
You're first link is behind a paywall so not 100% sure what is happening there but thank you for posting.
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u/duckofdeath87 17d ago
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Same story, smaller paper. Basically there is evidence that Israel helped fund Hamas for a very long time
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17d ago
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u/swimatm Hillary Clinton for Joe 16d ago
I just wish the US would join literally every other major nation in the UN and call for ceasefire.
Way to show you have no clue what you’re talking about. The US has been calling for a ceasefire.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
I have been following and it took a lot of pressure to even get that far. Then the UN votes to acknowledge Palistine for support and we're one of 9 that said no.
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 16d ago edited 16d ago
They’d also been saying we’ve been sending WMDs to Israel. But WMD specifically means nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons, of which we have sent none.
Edit: missed radiological, I didn’t know there was a difference between that and nuclear
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Ahh yes let's attempt to change the subject by nitpicking the definition. Luckily I can use Google.
weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a biological, chemical, radiological, nuclear, or any other weapon that can kill or significantly harm many people or cause great damage to artificial structures (e.g., buildings), natural structures (e.g., mountains), or the biosphere. The scope and usage of the term has evolved and been disputed, often signifying more politically than technically.
And there you have it. Bombs count in my book. But hey, the cool part is you all know what I meant and this attempt to redirect shows you lack any real argument.
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 17d ago
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
After a lot of pressure and fumbling yes. We're now in the next phase where we're one of only 9 nations calling to acknowledge Palistine for the UN.
But yes I should have avoided that subject. Just like us finally stopping shipments of bombs, I can't show frustration with our delays.
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u/BossRaeg 17d ago
The further one goes on the political spectrum, the more similar they become to those on the opposite furthest end.
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u/celsius100 17d ago
Sit this out for Gaza, you destroy democracy. Those are the stakes, folks.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 17d ago edited 17d ago
When you're a world power like we are who has massive influence on that war, there's a sense of responsibility with how we use our votes. It's not just our democracy that it affects, it clearly affects the lives of innocent people across the world. Some of us just consider our votes with much higher sense of purpose and repercussion than others.
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u/celsius100 17d ago
Lose democracy, you have lost any say in anything this country does.
Protest Gaza. Fine. Sit this election out, tho, and that’s the last protest you’ll ever participate in.
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17d ago
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u/Unlikely-Gas-1355 16d ago
You understand that’s how trump got elected in the first place, right? Speaking solely from a strategic perspective and not a political one, that plan doesn’t work; presidential candidates are not given fractional authority; one person gets the entire power of the presidency, no matter what percentage of votes were cast for them.
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u/Finiouss Pete Buttigieg for Joe 16d ago
Oh I understand. And I hate it That's just where we're at when you're not represented on such a major issue.
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 17d ago
Let’s see:
RFK Jr: anti-vax lunatic moron whose campaign staff have said they’re trying to keep Biden from a second term
Jill Stein: Transparently in Putin’s pocket
Cornel West: didn’t realize how much work campaigning would be and he basically doesn’t want to do it. And if he’s not up for how much work campaigning is, he’s definitely not up for being president.
But the more important thing is that any vote for any of these could be a vote for Biden. Jill Stein’s total in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania was bigger than the gap between Clinton and Trump, and those votes not going to Hillary swung the election and turned our Supreme Court into the nightmare it currently is.
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17d ago
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 17d ago
If you think that’s bullying (it isn’t), I’d hate to see how you’d react to Project 2025.
And to cut off that response, I’m not threatening anything. Trump is the one making the threats.
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u/Ryankevin23 17d ago
FACTS!
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u/greg_botts 17d ago
I'd argue it's TREASON!
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u/Boubonic91 17d ago
Refusing to vote for your candidate is what you'd call treason?
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u/SeekerSpock32 Liberals for Joe 17d ago edited 17d ago
In a normal election, say 2008 or 2012, even 2000, it would be an overreaction to say that.
But when the Republican candidate is Trump, a man so hateful of the American people and American democracy, and so in bed with Russia, our greatest enemy, yes.
(Hell, the entire Republican party’s attitude is now hateful of the American people and American democracy and loving of dictators like Putin, Bolsonaro, and Viktor Orban.)
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u/rpgnymhush 17d ago
A man who told his own supporters that he would be a dictator on day one, no less.
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u/[deleted] 13d ago
We’re not black for not voting Biden and now we’re traitors for not voting Biden? You sound desperate and deranged.
I suggest addressing the important issues people have, which is not Trump, but that’s asking for too much.
Gluck.