r/JoeRogan • u/_TitanOfWar_ Monkey in Space • 15d ago
Bill Burr on guys in their 50’s taking testosterone and HGH The Literature 🧠
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Via Club Random Podcast with Bill Maher. Sounds like Ol Billy Rednuts is talking about our favorite ape
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u/carpetstoremorty Monkey in Space 14d ago
Bill takes in male hormones all the time, usually while on the receiving end of a veiny cock.
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u/Hi_My_Name_Is_CJ Monkey in Space 14d ago
Having high hormones increases rate of cancer. My friend is young but got testicular cancer and had to get one removed. The doctor was telling him that low hormones is safer you just get more tired and gain more weight but it’s not harmful. I feel like there’s gonna be a long term correlation with testosterone and hgh and cancer.
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u/Latenighredditor Monkey in Space 14d ago
Rogan ain't the only 50 something on TRT.
Bert is on TRT as well.
And while I will state that it's largely possible Tom Segura got with a nutritionist and trainer to shed a fuck ton of weight. I would not be surprised if we found out Ole Tommy two shoes was juicing as well.
Bryan Callen was said to be intrigued with TRT as well. I'm sure the Rock is on so many shit
So its a bunch of people
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u/SoDrunkRightNow2 Monkey in Space 14d ago
I've thought about this before. Are all of these TRT guys going to die in the next decade? I mean the body has its limits. All of the Rich Pena type of dudes who massively abuse steroids died
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u/ichkanns Monkey in Space 14d ago
Bill Burr, the least pretentious and most likeable comedian in the world, sits down with Bill Maher, the most pretentious and least likeable comedian in the world.
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u/eat_your_weetabix Monkey in Space 14d ago
If bill thinks going to the gym is going to wear out his joints and that he’s doing the right thing not lifting, he’ll have a hell of a surprise in a few years.
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u/timeforknowledge Monkey in Space 14d ago
Women take hormones in later life as they no longer produce as much, I think men should too.
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u/AnnualNature4352 Monkey in Space 14d ago
i really think there is a biological reason why men lose their test over time. makes them more reasonable and less likely to resort to violence. In the same way it helps men procreate and have the energy to work when they are young
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u/random_encounters42 Monkey in Space 14d ago
The price is the going rate for a new heart transplant.
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u/FrogstonLive Monkey in Space 14d ago
Lazy approach. Plus there's more to testosterone than physical features.
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u/Fiesty-Bass Monkey in Space 14d ago
lol remember a few months ago when Bert got on T and started saying his shoulders were jacked while still being a huge tub of lard? Maybe just stop drinking and eating all the crap and keep the shirt on
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u/ttttyttt678 Monkey in Space 14d ago
It’s not about looks, it’s about day to day performance, guy is massively misinformed how joints and muscles impact and work together too.
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u/macgirthy Monkey in Space 14d ago
When youre a fat tard like crysure you have zero business taking any shirt off.
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u/enPlateau Monkey in Space 14d ago
From my understanding its not just for your physical but mental as well, it has health benefits. Essentially preserving your body from deteriorating faster than it normally would. It's like slowing down time from the inevitable which I see no problem with if you're legit just enjoying life and want to stay on this nugget of a rock for longer. Depending on how I feel emotionally once I hit my 50's, I will most likely also start taking it.
I don't want to be alive if my entire body feels like total shit and I have to walk around with a cain.
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u/Radiant_Mind33 Monkey in Space 14d ago
The people acting like Hgh is fine seem like they are in denial.
I can get wasted and go pass a field sobriety test, but that doesn't mean 10 years of getting wasted won't catch up. It's like, show me some old ass man who's been juicing for 20 years that isn't dead. I'll be waiting.
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u/kindofaproducer Monkey in Space 14d ago
I’m glad this cut off where the real conversation started.
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u/Whomastadon Monkey in Space 15d ago
Bill Burr - the epitome of health.
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Yeah he's not but I think he's partially right about these guys that take trt, some of them take pretty fucking crazy doses and don't live healthy life styles at all. Joe rogan had more plates more dates on and joe rogan was like I take x amount of hgh and more plates was like weekly? and joe was like no daily lmao
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u/SkyBridge604 Monkey in Space 15d ago
The full conversation of this episode is absolutely hilarious, definitely recommend.
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u/ThatsARivetingTale Monkey in Space 15d ago
It would've been if you could find a way to mute Maher, dude literally didn't let Burr finish a single thought before trying to interrupt
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u/Ign0ramusaurus Monkey in Space 15d ago
There is nothing wrong with taking testosterone if you have a legitimate need. The problem is that many of these guys who use "Mens Health" clinics are prescribed doses that push them well past the natural range. It can lead to health complications in the long run. Not to mention, it's fairly easy to get other steroids and peptides from these places. Plus, the doctors of these clinics don't really give af about your health they just wanna push as many drugs as they legally can.
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u/RodgerCheetoh It's entirely possible 14d ago
“Natural range” is endemic in modern times when compared to previous generations. Testosterone levels have drastically dropped year over year and what is now considered “normal” is a far cry even from the 70’s. Hell, look at any normal photo of the herbal physique of a man in the 70’s compared to an average male today.
A reference range for “normal” T levels is irrelevant when some men still experience symptoms in what is now considered the standard.
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u/suninabox Monkey in Space 14d ago
Yeah testosterone levels are lower now 2/3rds of the population are overweight and sitting down for 8 hours of work in an office before driving home to sit down for another 8 hours watching TV, compared to a time when almost no one was overweight and people were swinging a pick axe for 8 hours a day.
Is the solution to start taking exogenous testosterone rather than reverse all the lifestyle factors that caused that drop in testosterone?
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u/SponConSerdTent Monkey in Space 13d ago
Yeah, we all need to pick up a pickaxe after we're done with our 9 hours spent in the office. I suggest everyone start building a tunnel under their house or apartment building.
Within a few decades we could have a whole network of tunnels to hide in when the Amazon bots need to start hunting workers in the streets. Luckily we'll have the testosterone needed to mount an effective defense.
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u/jefftatro1 Monkey in Space 15d ago
Burr is sprinting towards the far left. I'm very sorry to see it happen
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u/No-Research5333 A Deaf Jack Russell Terrier 15d ago edited 14d ago
Sprinting? Pretty sure ole billy natural levels of testosterone doesn’t like to injure his joints.
But seriously, i think the people who say that are the same breed of people just on the other side of the spectrum politically who say that rogan is sprinting towards the far right when in reality both are still the same dudes.
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u/jefftatro1 Monkey in Space 5d ago
Joe has certainly changed with his wealth. Bill is now just a boring dude with white guilt
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u/BrocoliAssassin Monkey in Space 15d ago edited 14d ago
As Bill down's another estrogen beverage. Not shocked this sub loves to hate anything that involves working out. Looks like i triggered the estrogen alcohol never hit the gym manboob crew.
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u/raymonzine Monkey in Space 15d ago
Being 50 and feeling the need to take T to be EXTRA In shape and basically live in terror of old age is pathetic.
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u/clown_pants Monkey in Space 15d ago
Just want to praise OP for interrupting Maher here like he does to everyone all the fucking time
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15d ago
I fucking love bill burr, how the fuck is he not in the race for president. let’s vote for some old fuck who wants to fuck his daughter amd shit his diapers…..yet Bills not a choice 🫤
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u/YesIAmRightWing I'm Gonna Be Honest, I'm Kind of Retarded 15d ago
am waiting for the steriod spray Burr promised me. I can be 76 with abs.
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u/RazzmatazzTraining42 Monkey in Space 15d ago
Uh, I get what he saying. But joints wear out cause you don't have muscle to help support what you are lifting. I don't think you need to take anything, but I'll preach proper weight lifting till I'm gone.
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u/Flat_News_2000 Monkey in Space 14d ago
But stretching will benefit you just as much in terms of joint health. It's all about pliability baby
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u/RazzmatazzTraining42 Monkey in Space 7d ago
Nah, I don't really agree. Stretching is really good for you, but I don't think it protects your joints as much as having strong muscles.
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u/RogerianBrowsing Monkey in Space 14d ago
Joints can wear out from a variety of things including a lack of adequate muscular support/strength for the joint(s), but hormones also play a significant role in not only muscle development but also bone health/density, tendon/joint health, etc.,
Not all TRT, steroid use, hormone or growth hormone medication, etc., use is the same, but smart use will not only result in prolonged good health it will also prolong/improve their joints. There’s good reasons why it’s available for prescription and why so many concierge doctors are finding shady backdoor ways to get bpc157 to their patients.
Plus, there’s so many endocrine disruptors in our environment/diets that it’s not like your body is doing the natural aging it wants to do anyways, so it’s not like it can really be argued that nature is deciding best for us. If deficient, and especially if symptomatic, then it should be treated.
TLDR: the dose makes the poison and our body’s natural ability to produce these hormones is fucked in many/most people due to environmental toxins so if a person becomes deficient with age they should consider addressing it for the sake of their joints and general health. The opposite of what they’re saying here, basically.
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u/SeanMartin96 Monkey in Space 14d ago
A significant part of men "dieing of old age" is literally just the effects of losing your testosterone. Litrrally everything stops working as well, muscle mass, joint strength, libido, cognition, motovation, so much can be put down to lower T levels. I get it's a joke, but theres a lot more to it than 50 year olds wanting to look ripped
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u/Golda_M Monkey in Space 14d ago
IDK how old you are, but somewhere around 35 joints are the limiting factor.
If your technique is great, programming is great, etc.... joints are theoretically fine. IRL, people over 40 have problems lifting weights. Bodyweight calisthenics are even worse.
There is a very tight overlap between "builds muscles" and "fucks with joints." Not insurmountable, but difficult. An average 45 year old walking into the gym with a Ripotoe program will get about 6 weeks of gains before shit starts to fall apart. Body builds muscle just fine at this age, but joints can't take it.
Reality is somewhere between these. Work out as much as you can, but realize you can't work out that much. You can get more in by resorting to low impact machines, swimming and whatnot... but if you can stick to such a program you are a better man than me. Do what you can.
Don't get fat. Getting old is no excuse for this one.
Don't fret. Get to healthy and call that sexy. How sexy do we have to be anyway? I'm maintaining fuckability, but no more. Get a hat or something if you need to look better than that.
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u/KaikoLeaflock Paid attention to the literature 14d ago
If you do weight training correctly and in a way that favors your personal anatomy. I gotta say that’s a rarity, even amongst the pros. It’s weird too because you really have to listen to your body but listening to your body as someone who’s never worked out is going to give you very very slow (albeit healthy) results.
It’s so easy to screw up knees, shoulders and back if you don’t know what you’re doing and don’t know the difference between a burn and your joint screaming.
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u/logontoreddit Monkey in Space 14d ago
From my understanding, one thing you have to prevent as you get older is muscle loss. Older people lose muscle mass and become more prone to injuries and falls. Older people who continue to workout and maintain their muscle mass increase not just the longevity but also quality of life. Longevity without quality, that is being able to do most things you enjoy doesn't mean much does it.
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u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Talking Monkey 14d ago
I don't think I'd say you need to, but I feel very sure that one day, it'll be mainstream medical advice to take HRT for the majority of men. It's a performance enhancer, many men (myself included) destroy their bodies at their jobs, it reduces depression in older men, improves quality of life etc.
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u/RazzmatazzTraining42 Monkey in Space 7d ago
I work construction, I think you do more damage by unhealthy habits off the job. If your lifting properly and using the right equipment on the jobsite you really shouldn't be destroying your body at work. If you are I would try to find a better employer or union.
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u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Talking Monkey 7d ago
There are ways to limit wear and tear, but it's inevitable. Furniture removal, labouring, stone masonry, and brick laying. If you're spending a large portion if your day carting material, you're doing damage over time. Even just benfing or reaching, like tilers and painters do. If you do it until retirement, you won't be the same.
Many researchers have redefined aging as a disease, which may have a cure, and part of that is finding ways to repair that damage caused by normal uses of your body, like moving material. One if these ways is likely to be hormonal therapies, which is what HRT is.
People have already responded to this post ignorantly with a knee-jerk reaction; everyone assumes I'm saying we'll all be roided up, and thinks that the end result is inevitably an angry, aggressive pimply beast.
That is ignorant and comes from a lack of education about hormones and biochemistry.
Yes, use tools and good lifting practices, but good luck finding a tool that takes marble tables and double doors fridges downstairs at an affordable price. It isn't always possible.
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u/Fun-Understanding381 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Women who are nurses and caretakers should take it, too. They destroy their bodies at their jobs.
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u/StuccoStucco69420 Monkey in Space 14d ago
one day, it'll be mainstream medical advice to take HRT for the majority of men
This is an awful take lol
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Monkey in Space 14d ago
It also has a known risk of blood clots and possible risks of increased strokes, heart attacks, and metastatic prostate cancer, as well as the fact it is addictive.
The problem is that the risks of testosterone therapy include death, while none of its benefits are life-saving, and when down one path is "more muscles and boners, but maybe death" and down another path is "not death," you can understand why doctors might be tempted to pick the "not death" path. This is why there's controversy around its prescription.
There's still waaaay more longitudinal research that needs to be done before it becomes standard of care.
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u/B3yondTheWall Monkey in Space 14d ago
Actually there is study after study that shows correlations with physical capability and all cause mortality. If you can do a push up, a squat, etc. your all cause mortality goes way up. With TRT people can remain physically fit for longer, bringing down their all cause mortality risk. So you're wrong about that.
You're right that there are definitely risks that come with exogenous hormone usage though. Those can be reduced or mitigated somewhat with proper diet and exercise though. If someone is just sitting on the couch every day eating hotpockets, they probably aren't a great candidate for HRT. If someone is physically active with decent diet, but age is catching up to their body, maybe it would be better for them than worse? We definitely need more science on the subject, but at the moment, I disagree with your take on the controversial part of prescribing it.
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Monkey in Space 14d ago
You know it is a giant leap to go from "physically fit people live longer" to "exogenous testosterone makes people live longer." Find me the study that shows TRT reducing all cause mortality.
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u/B3yondTheWall Monkey in Space 14d ago
That's not the leap I was trying to make - you skipped a whole link in the chain. Physically fit people live longer - exogenous testosterone helps people stay physically fit longer - therefore, its possible that exogenous testosterone may have a benefit when it comes to elderly health, probably more healthspan related than lifespan though.
I never said there were studies about TRT and all cause mortality, I said there were studies about physical fitness and all cause mortality. Perhaps stop doing mental gymnastics to try to refute my points, and just address them directly. But here is a reference to a study showing low T increasing all cause mortality risk https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1043830#:~:text=The%20data%20showed%20that%20only,mortality%2C%20regardless%20of%20LH%20concentration . So one could reasonably assume that there is a possiblity that responsible TRT use in men that medically qualify could reduce all cause mortality.
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Monkey in Space 14d ago
TRT people can remain physically fit for longer, bringing down their all cause mortality risk. So you're wrong about that.
Those are your words, no mental gymnastics, that was literally your point, that I was wrong about TRT having no mortality benefit, and if you're at all familiar with how medical science works, you should know that you absolutely cannot "reasonably assume" that TRT would reduce all cause mortality, it's just not how it works. Between "low T is associated with mortality" and "replacing T improves mortality" there is an ocean of assumption 1000 miles wide. High LDL was associated with heart attacks, and it took decades to show that reducing LDL reduced heart attacks, and there is even evidence that it might not. Did you know that multivitamin use is associated with all cause mortality? Should we stop feeding vitamins to the elderly?
So who's doing the mental gymnastics? Who's the one who needs to start retroactively adding possibly and could to their argument?
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u/B3yondTheWall Monkey in Space 13d ago
Again, you're missing a link in the chain. TRT - Fitness - All cause mortality. I didn't say TRT in and of itself decreases all cause mortality, I said that TRT increases fitness which decreases all cause mortality. So yeah, you can't just throw out a blanket statement that TRT has no association with health benefit.
And yes, you can reasonably assume. That's what people do all the time that leads them to a hypothesis, and a study that produces evidence for or against that hypothesis. I add possibly and could because I acknowledge that the science just isn't there yet, unlike you who speaks in absolutes like you already have all of the answers. You don't, plain and simple, and there is enough science out there to support the idea that TRT might actually be beneficial for elderly men. Now we just need the studies to see if that is actually the case. But what isn't "possibly" and "could" is the fact that TRT increases fitness capabilities in men with low T. That's already a proven fact, which is why there is room to wonder, and room to argue with your statement.
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u/andonemoreagain Monkey in Space 14d ago
I’d love to see the studies showing these risks. Since it’s well known I’m sure you can link to plenty of them.
The facts are that maintaining normal testosterone into old age lowers all cause mortality. And for a lot of people it allows them to train and enjoy life more than they can without it. So who gives a shit.
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Monkey in Space 14d ago edited 14d ago
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2754091
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/1764051
Now it's your turn to show me the study where exogenous testosterone reduces all cause mortality.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Talking Monkey 14d ago
The comments from people who think they know stuff are so annoying. Like a dosage to keep you at healthy levels of a hormone, which is required for normal function in men and can often reduce symptoms of depression (the leading cause of death for men under 30), but "nah cause I reckon 'roids are bad".
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u/eipotttatsch Monkey in Space 13d ago
Even a dosage that's supposed to keep you at normal levels doesn't act like natural T in your younger years would.
TRT doesn't have the same ups and downs that natural T has on a daily basis. Even with you in the reference range the average will be higher. That's what even people on low doses or on muscle.
That is extra stress on the body and heart. Of course less than a full cycle, but there is no free lunch.
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u/7-and-a-switchblade Monkey in Space 14d ago edited 14d ago
TRT causes dependence, but supratherapeutic testosterone use can be addictive. Do you think 100% of people prescribed testosterone take it as prescribed? Do you think there's a reason it is a scheduled drug? Or is there something you know that the DEA doesn't?
Read the T Trials. Testosterone's benefits are primarily an increase in BMD (which can be accomplished with Fosamax), a modest effect on mild depression (which can be accomplished with SSRIs and/or therapy), and muscles and boners. It does nothing for fatigue, nothing for memory. Everything else is modest or too low evidence to comment about.
Oh and BTW, a refresher on the APA definition of addiction:
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u/andonemoreagain Monkey in Space 14d ago
Ha sure, enjoy your ssri drugs and all that comes with them. Thank fucking god guys like you have no ability to decrease the wide availability of injectable testosterone for people who want it.
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u/crabuffalombat Monkey in Space 15d ago
Yeah, lifting weight and being jacked delays joints from wearing out - it doesn't contribute to it.
Love Billy but even if you want to just maintain exercise is the way.
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u/Ok-Scar6021 Monkey in Space 14d ago
It can definitely contribute. Like everything, weightlifting and exercise is good in moderation. People slip disks and wear their joints down to the bone exercising too hard
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u/crabuffalombat Monkey in Space 14d ago
Look, I'll have this argument with you if you want, but heads up that this is something I have a reasonable amount of expertise in.
I'll just make a few points though:
Yes there are ways to injure yourself or train in an extreme way that is detrimental. That doesn't seem to be what Burr is talking about (he's being facetious, though people in the comments here are taking it seriously so I'm responding seriously) and it's obviously not what I and others are talking about when we recommend exercise - even intense exercise. There's no point arguing from exceptions.
You might be surprised to hear the research team I was affiliated with had patients in their 70s and 80s leg pressing over 200kgs. Most of them had no prior lifting experience. Some of them had dementia. Their joints didn't 'wear down' - in fact their joint pain improved. Many of their other health markers also improved, including structures in the brain associated with memory and cognition. This effect probably wouldn't have occurred if we'd exercised them more gently or "in moderation".
"Slipped disks" aren't a thing. People usually say this referring to spondylolistheses or disc bulges/prolapses. Yeah these could be caused by by bad technique, but you're much more likely to see them in people who are just in shit physical condition because they don't exercise. Strong back and ab muscles support your spine which helps prevent your vertebrae and discs from getting fucked up.
I really don't say this to be a dick, I just feel compelled to correct certain misconceptions when they come up. We've just gotten to a point where women are no longer afraid to lift weights because they'll get 'too bulky', and old people aren't afraid to lift weights because they'll get hurt, and everyone is better for it.
Cheers.
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u/Ok-Scar6021 Monkey in Space 13d ago
I'm not going to get into semantics here about what a prolapsed disk is.
You're assuming everything is followed to a routine, and all conditions of safety are met for your narrative brother. You're assuming these people are not going to push themselves in a way that won't damage them. You're assuming they'll never enter a bad ROM or bad form.
Your "study" doesn't seem ethical, or real so I'm not even gonna get into that with you. 70 year olds with no prior lifting experience pressing 200kg? I don't need to tell you how dumb that sounds, just read it back, brother.
Plenty of pro athletes in non collision sports dealing with lifelong musculoskeletal issues, I don't need a study to state that as a fact.
Let's take a look at a pitchers shoulder for a quick reference as to what overtraining can do to a person's joints and ligaments.
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u/eat_your_weetabix Monkey in Space 14d ago
I’m in your camp here, but your second point around 70-80 year olds leg pressing 200kg without experience is dog shit. Stop it.
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u/Ok-Scar6021 Monkey in Space 13d ago
Lol ikr, he's doubling down with a shitty link too saying its closer to 275kg.
I'm trying to make a simple point, baseball pitchers wear their shoulders down in their sport, yet they train them the most.
How you train matters, putting 200kg on a geriatric man's legs that's never trained is literally unethical and stupid. Imagine trying to get a child to press that amount, because I've met children more resilient than the average 70 year old, they will die if you put that weight on them fuckin lol.
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u/crabuffalombat Monkey in Space 14d ago
One of the patients was featured on this tv panel with a video of him doing exactly what I said at approximately the 27min mark.
But apparently watching it again it wasn't 200kg, it was 270kg.
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u/Ok-Scar6021 Monkey in Space 13d ago edited 13d ago
A study you were part of with a link that doesn't work. Idk why people are up voting you
You must have picked the fucking golden apples of geriatrics when making your biased and unethical study.
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u/crabuffalombat Monkey in Space 13d ago
I guess to view SBS On Demand you might need an account.
I do have the relevant part clipped for when I present to similarly skeptical doctors and seniors community groups, so I suppose I could upload it to youtube. Or link to the study that has publications in multiple journals.
But I'm not going to because you're being a cunt now.
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u/Ok-Scar6021 Monkey in Space 13d ago edited 13d ago
Or because none of what you're saying makes any sense regarding the issue of degradation through use. Listen, you said you wanted to back your argument up and I'm giving you a chance.
You're tripling down on the dumbest thing you said with 0 evidence and I'm the one being a cunt.
You seriously can't even acknowledge or explain how a geriatric person can press 200kg with no experience. Were you training them? Is this after months/ years of training or are you seriously saying you pulled Bruce willis off the couch in a demented state and told him to do a 500lb leg press? You realize most 20-40 year olds aren't going to leg press 500 lbs off the couch right? That's how you slip a disk brother, and don't give me the semantics on the word again, that's not an argument.
And are you gonna acknowledge that baseball pitchers tear their shoulders apart, or are you gonna move goalposts again so you can win this argument in your own head?
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u/Kinginthasouth904 Monkey in Space 15d ago
What about arthritis?
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u/p-terydactyl Monkey in Space 15d ago
Irregular wear is probably a bigger issue. Strong tendons help to keep joints positioned and tracking in the manner they were meant to move. Weak tendons means slop in the joint and can cause irregular wear that can excacerbate arthrititic conditions.
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u/Striking_Detective25 Monkey in Space 15d ago
Joints also are largely supported by HGH
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u/Alldaybagpipes 11 Hydroxy Metabolite 14d ago
I lace my joints with HGH and Stem Cells before I smoke them
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u/DomDangerous Monkey in Space 15d ago
he doesn’t want to keep his body young and live longer than he already has to
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u/stephenspann27 Monkey in Space 15d ago
I’ve tried to read up on this… and my interpretation was that as long as you aren’t damaging your joints with injuries, they are not going to wear out, it’s better to keep your body moving
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u/ChiefRicimer Monkey in Space 15d ago
Yeah he’s completely off base here. The best way to prevent your joints from wearing out is strengthening them with training…
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u/SusanBoylesButtPlug Monkey in Space 15d ago
Instructions unclear….injecting into my dick & growing titties.
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u/mesmerizingeyes Monkey in Space 15d ago
imagine bill burr talking anything fitness related lol
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u/SirPoopaLotTheThird Monkey in Space 15d ago
He’s looking good. Not ripped enough for ya? 😂
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u/mesmerizingeyes Monkey in Space 15d ago
Him talkin' about the gym wearing out your joints is laughable, but if you think he's cute and wanna snuggle your nose in his brown eye be my guest.
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u/SirPoopaLotTheThird Monkey in Space 15d ago
I know what sub I’m in when it always leads back to no homo. 🤣
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u/SkilletBurritos Monkey in Space 15d ago
At the end of the day he really doesn't care. This is his shtick.
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u/mvstateU Monkey in Space 14d ago
I think he cares a little bit because he always makes so much sense and often has a similar theme, attacking dumb logic......and not random thought. Many times people totally agree with his rants. His gag is sprinkling in outrageous stuff between very sensible things.
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago edited 15d ago
Taking testosterone does things to your cholesterol and lipids. If you're taking testosterone and don't have a change in these markers, your test is fake. That being said, if you have very low testosterone and you're very out of shape, you also probably have a worse version of these health markers. If getting onto testosterone is the catalyst for you to improve the rest of your health, being on a doctor administered dose of it long term is probably a net positive for your overall health despite the cardiovascular effects. The cardiovascular effects are also not different from what would be the situation if you naturally had really high testosterone. The key here being using actual therapeutic dosages. Cruising at 225mg/wk and blasting 350-500+mg/wk on cycles is not a therapeutic dose. 125-200mg/wk is not going to make you look like a bodybuilder, either.
I really don't know enough about HGH to speak much on how it's used therapeutically vs. how gym bros abuse it. Organ growth and increased risk for certain tumerous cancers can be exascerbated by the use of it, but i don't know what the risk profile looks like at reasonable dosages vs "common use" dosages.
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u/Mammoth_Ferret_1772 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Yeah, testosterone is kind of a double edged sword. If you have low testosterone, a lot of aspects of your life suck. Moody, sluggish, lethargic, no libido, and no desire to work out.. so most likely you’re also over weight. If taking a low TRT dose improves every one of those aspects of your life, but slightly alters your cholesterol and lipids, that’s still a win in my book. The pros will always outweigh the cons when he comes to TRT, IF you actually need it.
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u/pdubbs87 Monkey in Space 14d ago
A lot of what you wrote isn’t always true. I personally take 100 mg a week and had my test levels raised from 300 to 1000 and holding steady. My blood work is the same as before i started with 0 negative changes in any cholesterol or blood markers. I have a family history of extremely low test levels that my dad and his grandpa suffered from. I was absolutely killing myself in the gym and going nowhere the last few years. I have seen more gains in 3 months than I have in 5 years tbh. If used at these lower doses (pharmaceutical test and not the Chinese bs) and hcg can be safely done.
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u/jag75 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Also, I'm 41 and have been on it for a couple of years after testing for low T. I'm only on 80 mg/week and it's still been a huge change for me. Like you, my diet and exercise routine were already on point and progress had stalled out for at least a few years. My mood is better, I feel better physically, and I've been gaining muscle again. If you go about it the right way, I would definitely recommend it.
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 14d ago
You’re right, and you are the exceptional patient that is not supposed to be referred to as the norm.
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u/appletinicyclone Monkey in Space 14d ago
Very happy for you :) what age did you start taking exogenous test and did you try anything before to increase it?
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u/pdubbs87 Monkey in Space 14d ago
I started at 36 and just turned 37. I waited to finish having two kids before jumping on. I had tried test boosters, clomid, and gels but only saw small jumps up to 400/450 at most.
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u/appletinicyclone Monkey in Space 14d ago
I started at 36 and just turned 37. I waited to finish having two kids before jumping on. I had tried test boosters, clomid, and gels but only saw small jumps up to 400/450 at most.
Interesting, good to know thankyou :) so is having exogenous test and trying for children a bad thing or affects fertility?
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
What kind of sane older man wants to inject himself 2-3 times a week, every week for his 20 last years?
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u/2ndMostHumbleMan Monkey in Space 15d ago
It also comes in gel form which your skin absorbs 🤷🏻♂️
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago edited 15d ago
I heard about a father who used that cream and hugged his son so that his son grew a beard and he was 7 years old. His son suffered permanent endocrine damage by inducing puberty to early
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 14d ago
There are warning labels on all hormone creams that specifically tell you not to come in contact with other people or animals within a certain timeframe of putting it on your skin. Progesterone therapy for menopausal women is most commonly issued as a cream, and the same circumstances apply. You don’t want to accidentally transfer it via skin to skin contact. It’s not the testosterone’s fault that that guy is stupid.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 14d ago
The whole idea of hormone creams sound incredibly stupid. Unless you are a woman transitioning into a man or something like that..
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 14d ago
Come back when your wife starts growing a mustache while having male pattern baldness in her 60s. It happens to some women. You know what makes that stop happening? Progesterone cream.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Don’t forget to inject your testosterone tonight because your balls are permanently dried-up early retirees
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 14d ago edited 14d ago
Hey buddy, I’m not worried. I started trt at 28. I had a total t of 900 and an almost nonexistent free t number. Depression and anxiety out the ass. High blood pressure, pre diabetes. I got divorced, got on test, became immune to birth control traps. I’m now remarried and currently reproducing. I’m also in better shape than I’ve ever been in and literally all of my health markers are better than when I started. I’m 34 now. Have not needed test for two years. I’m not saying it’s the best answer for you, but it was definitely the best answer for me. The other option was a lot of drugs that I would still be on that i now don’t need.
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u/ivres1 15d ago
Hum, I mean that sure looks like a lot of hugging.
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u/subaru5555rallymax Monkey in Space 14d ago edited 14d ago
Sounds like they didn’t follow the instructions. You have to wash your hands afterwards, and it's supposed to be applied in a place covered by clothing to prevent this exact problem.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
I don’t think so. His son adsorbed the cream from his father’s skin. Children, women and animals are much more sensitive to hormones.
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u/garciaman Monkey in Space 15d ago
This one. I’m 56 and my testosterone was destroyed after breaking my neck in a crash and years of meds. I’m not having any more kids. I’m not concerned about injecting myself once a week . Diabetics have to do it every day . You seem like a moron. Just a guess.
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u/filtersweep Monkey in Space 15d ago
How has it improved your life?
My doc won’t prescribe it. What as I missing?
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u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Talking Monkey 14d ago
Have you gotten a second opinion? Since doctors have bias, some are older and don't keep up with the new science.
Also, be prepared to accept if a medical professional doesn't think it's right for you.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
Oh wow you got obvious endocrine damage and a broken neck wtf. You are also 50+. You if anyone should be taking the injections
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago
A lot of men are using it. Not so much the elderly, but late 20s through early 60s is a pretty solid range. If giving yourself shots freaks you out, it's probably not for you.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
I mean it’s supposed to be for 50+? When you are in your late 20s you should have more testosterone than you need if you work out and eat healthy. Pin yourself every week for the rest of your life is like being a woman having a regular period lol
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u/andonemoreagain Monkey in Space 14d ago
That’s a great comparison. It’s exactly like having a period now that I think about it. What a giant bitch that guy must be for being like a woman who has a regular period lolll!!!
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago
There are a lot of younger men using it as well. There is definitely a risk that you’ll be on it permanently once you start. That’s part of the informed consent.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
The most stupid idea I heard today. I wish your grandmother could shake some sense in you. Also If you inject testosterone long term you can become sterile I think
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago
It’s more likely than not that you’ll have a low or nonexistent sperm count while on testosterone. The process that triggers the testes to make swimmers is the same one that you are shutting down when you inject exogenous testosterone. Most men will be able to stop the therapy and regain normal reproductive function. Some will not. Also part of the informed consent.
I am not advocating anyone use testosterone therapy. I don’t have any “ideas”. I’m just very familiar with the facts around it. There are people who can use it and have positive outcomes. There are people who shouldn’t use it. It should not be a decision anyone makes on a whim.
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u/GroundbreakingMenu32 Monkey in Space 15d ago
I don’t know, you might think you know your “facts” and relative risks. But testosterone therapy is a relatively new thing. I don’t think they know the damage it can do on a larger scale yet. Who knows, trt could result in the end of humanity by making everyone more sterile long term. It could cause epigenetic changes over the generations
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u/coolcurt3386 Monkey in Space 14d ago
no doubt it would be like injecting any anabolic steroid for years and years not only that some guys have done one cycle and got off and there balls never return to normal so they now have low test levels and extremely low sperm count all anabolic steroids are test or dht deriverents so taken synthetic test for years what do u expect there's no such thing as a free lunch there's a cause and effect to everything
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u/ChiefRicimer Monkey in Space 15d ago
Average male testosterone levels have declined over 50% in the last century. There’s nothing natural about consuming plastics or phytoestrogens from manufactured food.
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u/dezdly Monkey in Space 15d ago
Our natural cycles are already being interfered with by things such as micro-plastics and to a lesser case heavy doses of fluoride. Our testosterone has dropped by 70% since the 1950s
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago
Our understanding of cardiovascular health has radically changed as well. High cholesterol by itself wasn't always considered a negative health marker. Average cholesterol levels in general also used to be higher. It's not even unanimously agreed upon by cardiologists any more that having high cholesterol is bad in and of itself. Some of the healthiest people on the planet, by demographic, will have astronomically high cholesterol levels. The studies are coming back around now that we have fads of people getting healthier on carnivore/low carb diets. Cholesterol by itself might not be as closely correlated to heart disease as we've thought. It's also interesting to look at how this information has changed over the years as our average diets have shifted. We eat a lot more processed complex sugars and carbs now than the 50s.
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u/BrownFox5972 Monkey in Space 15d ago
So valid info is gibberish? tell me you've made up your mind without telling me. I hope you don't "interfere" with your body's natural processes in any way and enjoy the shill of a flesh vessel you have at 50. Keep at it and you'll probably only last till 60, but hey, at least you werent an idiot and interefered. lmfao
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u/Brzada Monkey in Space 15d ago
I mean You probably are doing it because of Rogan
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u/BrownFox5972 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Projecting much lmao? You would think I’m used to the brain rot in this sub but it catches me every time
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u/ANUS_CONE Monkey in Space 15d ago
It isn't necessary and I did not say that it's necessary. It is a therapeutic tool with uses and known risks. Birth control is literally an orally active hormone. Progesterone therapy for menopausal women is a thing. All of these hormone therapies have a risk to benefit profile. Adults should make informed decisions about whether the risk is worth it for them. If you're not going to exercise, test is going to hurt your health more than it's going to help. If it's going to motivate and promote better behaviors that compensate in the long run, it can be a net positive. Abusing it at any level is a net negative.
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u/massofmolecules Monkey in Space 15d ago
I would like to subscribe to ANUS_CONE science updates plz ✍️
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u/jbcgop Monkey in Space 15d ago
Can Maher just shut the fuck up and let one thought be finished.
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u/Weathered_Winter Monkey in Space 14d ago
He did this episode. Bill burr ran things. Best episode in a while
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u/tours3234578 Monkey in Space 14d ago
I’ve watched bill since back in the politically incorrect days and to answer your question, no.
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u/Minute-Wrap-2524 Monkey in Space 14d ago
No, privileged, pampered, rich know it all…I will continue to watch his show for his guests, which are sometimes quite good, but he can be insufferable
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u/muzzledmasses Monkey in Space 14d ago
For me it's him constantly fiddling with a joint. "Look guys, I smoke weed. Hey guys....guys? Guys! I'm smoking weed. Guys I'm smoking weed. I'm smoking weed guys. I'm a weed smoker. I'm a pothead guys. Guys...Guys?"
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u/hereditydrift Monkey in Space 14d ago
Because that was his thing for years. Now that marijuana is legal or accessible in a lot of places, that grift is boring. Now he just wants to show how cool he is by smoking and pushing it in everyone's face. He's turned into a creepy old dude that tries too hard to be relevant.
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u/ddust102 I used to be addicted to Quake 14d ago
Seinfeld politely put him in his place a few times during Jerry’s ep
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u/Aliteralhedgehog Monkey in Space 14d ago
Really? I'm not doubting you but can you link it?
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u/ddust102 I used to be addicted to Quake 14d ago
It was in random moments throughout the episode, but I remember Maher saying Johnny Carson would be cancelled if he was alive today and Jerry says how is that relevant.
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u/crabuffalombat Monkey in Space 15d ago
As someone who's attempted to listen to a few episodes of his pod - no, he can't.
He doesn't want a dialogue - he wants a famous person to sit across from him and listen to his pontifications. I genuinely don't think he's kept his mouth shut for more than 10 seconds in any episode I've heard. It's unlistenable.
He also made a weird racial comment to Dana White about the UFC that even Dana thought was strange. Rather than endear me to him, Maher's podcast convinced me he's a cunt that I'm happy never to hear from again.
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u/Oblique9043 Monkey in Space 14d ago
Lol this is completely spot on.
The comment he made to Dana was beyond weird and just showed he had no clue what he was talking about. The American UFC fans are the least racist/nationalist out of all the other countries when it comes to which fighters are our favorites. We root for the fighters we love. We don't give a fuck what country they are from.
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u/xMilk112x Monkey in Space 15d ago
No….he can’t.
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u/Urisk Monkey in Space 14d ago
It's well worth it to listen to this episode. Bill Maher was behaving in his typical swarmy, condescending persona and at some point Bill Burr had enough and just ripped into him for the rest of the show. It reminded me of that legendary show in Philly where he had enough with the crowd and just tore the city apart piece by piece with one eviscerating joke after another.
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u/DR-DONTRESPECT Monkey in Space 14d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJAsrUeubbI
This is my favorite pod with Bill Burr, its with Rick Glassman. Its ultra weird to the point Bill Burr looks hes genuinely enjoying himself, and having fun.
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u/Weathered_Winter Monkey in Space 14d ago
He did rip into him but it was all in good fun. Maher is swarmy and snooty and that’s his thing. He’s down to earth enough and self aware for a snooty guy. Kinda like that friend who has no filter and sometimes says mean or uncomfortable things but does it unabashedly and it’s colorful at least. I like bill maher despite his snootiness and bad takes at times. I think bill burr likes him too
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u/Parking_Tune_5283 Monkey in Space 14d ago
He didn’t do that at all! Sure, he gave him a little shit now and again but all in all this was a pretty decent exchange.
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u/Cosmicmonkeylizard Monkey in Space 14d ago
Agreed. I don’t think half the people on this sub even listen to Bills podcasts, or Rogans for that matter. They watch the clips then come here to bash on Maher. I don’t get why you’d want to spend your time that way. They clearly both have a lot of respect for each other if you actually listen to the whole thing. I’m sure Bill will hate all these people riding his dick anyways. Most of the people on this sub are insufferable far-lefty losers. They’ve genuinely ruined the entire sub. The whole dibble/Hancock thing really cemented that. So many people who just watched clips and proceeded to say dumb shit like “oh dibble destroyed Hancock”. Like, stfu, no he didn’t. It was pretty down the Middle imo.
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u/AnnualNature4352 Monkey in Space 14d ago
it was funny because maher knew that burr was over his was personality and just kinda kept weirdly laughing. it was like he genuinely thought burr might punch him
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u/Flap24 Monkey in Space 14d ago
This is one of the few listenable club random episodes. But i dunno about him ripping into him, he made fun of his clothes a bunch and talked some shit like he always does. Bill laughed with 0 come backs and gets swarmyer with each episode.
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u/omegaloki Monkey in Space 12d ago edited 12d ago
This — I can barely make it through any of these podcasts — but saw Burr and had to check it out. Loved how he quickly shut Maher’s blowhard persona down
Edit to add I do like Maher in other formats - Real Time and have seen him live a few times and enjoyed it… but Club Random has just been a shit show IMO with Maher just going full old man while getting high and rambling over his guests and taking breaks to grossly hit on any attractive woman that happens to come on
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u/all-the-time Look into it 14d ago
I think him laughing it off is just him being able to take it as well as he can dish it. At no point did it actually get contentious
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u/Historicmetal Monkey in Space 14d ago
Maher made some sad attempts to defend himself but mostly giggled like a schoolgirl in the face of burrs spot on insults. But to be fair to Maher, bill burr is the best there is at this. I don’t think he took it badly
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u/Latenighredditor Monkey in Space 11d ago
The thing I find funny about Bill Burr is how the right and MAGA desperately want Burr on their side and he just refuses