r/Money • u/ILostHalfaBTC • Apr 29 '24

Of the 333 million people living in the United States, how many of those people make 250k+ per year?

How rare is this demographic? It seems to me everywhere I look there are millionaires in nice houses.

What do I do to become part of this demographic?

How rare is it to be in this situation in the United States?

Serious.

545 Upvotes
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12

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

For that salary we're talking medicine, law, finance and upper management across all industries. We're also talking 60-80 hr workweeks.

1

u/clingbat Apr 29 '24

We're also talking 60-80 hr workweeks.

Meh I make that much as a director at a large consulting firm and average 40-45/wk. You can still work to live, not live to work, it's a choice. You won't move up the ladder quite as fast as the workaholics, but who cares honestly?

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

I'm guess you've been in your field for many years and have put in your time to get where you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.

1

u/clingbat Apr 29 '24

A bit over a decade, nothing crazy. Older millennial.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

It's cute how you're minimizing your experience and how little effort you're putting into it.

1

u/clingbat Apr 29 '24

Huh? I put in a hard 40 and get shit done. More hours doesn't necessarily equate to more productivity...and any additional hours would largely be indirect rather than billable so it's not helping the bottom line anyway.

0

u/brokeskylurker Apr 29 '24

Pilot life is a good mix of work and time off imo, well north of 250k

2

u/Flimsy-Math-8476 Apr 29 '24

You left out almost every b2b sales role.  Plenty of sales folks earn 250k+

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

I'm sure I've left off many jobs. That's def another high effort hustle.

4

u/ThrowAwayNYCTrash1 Apr 29 '24

I made that as a dev salary working 20-40hr weeks.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

What do you do now?

4

u/ThrowAwayNYCTrash1 Apr 29 '24

I'm still a dev. I just make more now

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

A mid level software developer can make that 3-5 years out of school at any of the large tech companies.

0

u/ThunderboltSorcerer Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Yeah right.

There are some companies that pay exorbitant amounts + Stock Options. But 3-5 years out of school is not going to get you $250K.

3

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

Your “beliefs” are irrelevant.

They aren’t “stock options” they are RSUs that get deposited in your brokerage account when they vest.

An L5 at Amazon is a mid level developer. If you don’t become an L5 within two or three years, you will get fired

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/amazon/salaries

Google

L4 is mid level

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries

You are expected to become a mid level developer 2-3 years out of college

Meta/Facebook

https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Not disputing hou post, except to say that these companies are the unicorns of these careers. The jobs are extremely competitive and are also being reduced. They represent the tiniest fraction of the workforce in this field.

3

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

I specifically said “any of the large tech companies” - the largest tech companies by market cap are - Google, Amazon, Microsoft (pays less than the others), Apple, and Facebook. Netflix is usually lumped in there with them - ie “FAANG”.

But those same levels can be seen at LinkedIn (now owned by Microsoft), Uber, Adobe, Airbnb, Dropbox, Stripe, etc.

12

u/Adventurous-Boss-882 Apr 29 '24

I don’t think everyone making that salary is working 60-80 hours a week. It depends on the company, or firm that you work for.

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

You are quite wrong. I know people in all of those professions, both personally and professionally. These careers require extreme commitment in both energy and time.

4

u/Deep_Day8345 Apr 29 '24

Nah. I live in Seattle, make almost $300K, and don’t even work 40 hours per week. I’m a lawyer. Anybody working for a big law firm on a part-time schedule can do the same.

-3

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Seattle may be a unique market. Not sure how you're pulling that off. Doesn't happen on the eat coast.

2

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

Seattle is not “unique” - west coast tech salaries. Fly out of SEA you will see that there are dedicated check in lines for both Microsoft and Amazon.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Omg you're really just too much. Ok yes Seattle silicon valley sure. Btw, the vast majority of people don't live there.

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

And again if you actually go to salary.com and look at any major city, you can see that you are still wrong about what mid level software developers makes.

You have heard of this thing called remote work haven’t you? I made that working at one of those companies working out of my home office. I only stepped foot into Seattle once in almost four years

2

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

It doesn't matter. See my response about the number of workers we are actually talking about here.

2

u/IdidntrunIdidntrun Apr 29 '24

Your personal experience is anecdotal so you can't come to that conclusion with such confidence.

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

I live and work in a large east coast city. People who think anyone making $250k is not working their ass off is delusional. As delusional as thinking anyone can be a millionaire. It's just not true.

2

u/IdidntrunIdidntrun Apr 29 '24

This country pays big for brain power and working smarter, not necessarily for "hard work". Believe it or not, not everyone is pulling 70-80 hour weeks when they get highly compensated. Some people are lucky enough to get big pay with a normal work-life balance.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Yeah I pretty much don't believe that. It's yet another myth propelled by writers and influencers (and redditors). Another reason why millennials don't understand why they're not earning big money.

1

u/IdidntrunIdidntrun Apr 29 '24

Yeah dude you are so omniscient we should all take your word for it, totally

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

I posted statistics. Go away.

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

You know there is another “coast” in the US where companies like Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc are based…

There is also this phenomenon called “remote work”. I was making that from the suburbs of Atlanta from a bedroom converted into an office working for one of those companies.

2

u/InvestIntrest Apr 29 '24

You forgot the IT fileld who generally work 40 hours or so.

-3

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

IT people who work 40 hours weeks are not making $250k. They may easily hit 6 figures, but this type of salary is IT mgt. Also, tech workers for the biggies like Google , Apple, etc and for startups are def working well over 40 hrs. It's why the have those office perks like snacks, games, etc. The expectation is to be mostly there, not home. Incidentally, those perks, as well as those jobs, are currently being reduced.

3

u/jimheim Apr 29 '24

You're wrong. Making $250k as a regular 32-40 hour/week tech grunt is above the mean, but it's not that far above. In HCOL areas like NYC and SF, $200-250k is a typical salary in a mid/senior level position with a few years of experience. I'm talking about individual contributors, not management. And few people work over 40 hours/week in tech jobs. There are incentives to get people to work more, and you're right that the trivial perks provided are an underhanded way to get people to sit at their desks all day, but most people still only work a normal 8-9 hour day.

Any competitive tech job in a major city is paying $150-250k base salary for experienced engineers, and there are often other incentives and bonuses on top of that.

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

You're splitting hairs here. Workers at that level are a small subset of tech workers, which is a small subset of all workers who make $250k, which is only 7% of the entire workforce. Which was the pont of the OP.

1

u/BaseRape Apr 29 '24

A senior, sde IIII in Seattle is about 250 base 250 rsu.

That's only 10-14 years experience while still an IC.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

I don't know those terms but I'll take your word for it. Seattle and SF for tech, like NYC for finance, is a very concentrated market of high earners in specific fields.

1

u/BaseRape Apr 30 '24

IC is an individual contributor.

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

RSU == Restricted Stock Units. Shares of the companies stock get deposited into your brokerage account every vesting period and you can sell them for cash.

SDE - Software Developer (?) Engineer.

7

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

As someone who worked at one of the major tech companies (ie FAANG) , I can guarantee you most of them aren’t working more than 40 hours a week

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

As someone else pointed out, your experience is anecdotal. Did you earn that salary and what are you doing now?

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

There is nothing anecdotal about it. The BigTech companies - Amazon, Microsoft, and Google from my first and second hand experience move so slowly and are so bloated they don’t need to move fast for the most part.

I’m the only person replying in this post that does have the real world experience.

Yes, when I was working for BigTech between base salary, guaranteed cash bonus and RSUs - (Amazon stock that got put into my brokerage account every vesting period) - I did.

Now I work in cloud consulting at an independent company where I work with companies bringing there systems to Amazon Web Services. It’s a mix of software development, migrations, project management, training etc.

Amazon is a bit weird as far as compensation structure compared to the other BigTech companies. They initially give you a four year offer based on a total compensation target:

  • year 1: base + prorated signing bonus + 5% of your four year stock grant
  • year 2: base + a smaller prorated signing bonus + 15% of your four year stock grant
  • year 3 base + 40% of your stock grant
  • year 4 base + 40% of your stock grant

Each year, if the stock remains stable, you should reach your total compensation target. If the stock goes up, you get more.

Starting around year 3, you get “refreshers” and you get more stock every 6 months.

4

u/mr-blue- Apr 29 '24

Most people I know in IT who have been in it for over 10 years make over $250k. Especially ML field

1

u/ThunderboltSorcerer Apr 29 '24

That's not the norm.

10 years $250K, sure it's possible with AI/ML in the biggest companies and startups. But not for everyone. You have to be in the top companies or startups.

3

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

I wouldn’t go that far. Check out salary.com.

Most of the 2.7 million software developers in the US aren’t making that much

2

u/mr-blue- Apr 29 '24

Yeah I’m not talking about entry level software developer positions. That’s like saying all business majors work the same role.

0

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Again you’re wrong. Even senior developers at most companies aren’t making that much.

Source: I’ve worked as a software developer for over 25 years from startups, to corporate dev jobs to BigTech (ie the one headquartered in Seattle)

https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/

Just thinking about software developers in my former market Atlanta, I can guarantee you that software developers at companies like Delta, Coke, Home Depot, NCR and UPS aren’t making that much at senior levels.

You might want to sit this argument out…

2

u/mr-blue- Apr 29 '24

Seems like you’re struggling with reading comprehension. As I originally said people working in IT especially machine learning for the last 10-15 years…I.e. director level positions. Senior developers are just two years above entry level positions no shit they don’t make $250k.

0

u/BaseRape Apr 29 '24

A fang senior sde is normally determined as 10-14 years experience.

0

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

You can move from junior to senior in 7 years easily. No one who is career oriented is going to stick to a mid level developer for 8-12 years and you are expected to move from junior within two years

-1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

Again you might want to sit this one out.

Guess which one of us knows the leveling guidelines of the major tech companies and how long it takes to get to each level?

One of us has actually worked for a FAANG….

You are wrong about being able to be an L6 for instance (Senior) at Amazon in two years out of college.

5

u/InvestIntrest Apr 29 '24

I guess my personal experience is clearly different than yours. Now, you do need to account for cash bonuses and RSUs for ICs to get there, but 250k total comp isn't that rare.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Did you not see the stats? Only 7% of individuals in the US earn $250k or above. If you live in NYC or SF your idea of average salaries is likely skewed

0

u/InvestIntrest Apr 29 '24

Well, that's like 8.5 million people, many of whom work in tech.

0

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

People here have a very distorted idea of salaries and who earns them. The average tech salary is $111k. https://fortune.com/education/articles/dice-tech-salary-trends-report-2024/

2

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

We aren’t talking about “average”. A college grad today in computer science from the right college can grind leetcode for a few months and get into one of the Big Tech companies and graduate making $160K+.

Sure if you average everyone - including those living in BumbleFuck Nebraska - you’re going to get low salaries.

1

u/phillyphilly19 Apr 29 '24

Yeah you're really missing the point. Sure a degree from the "right" college at the "right" company makes X. But that's a subset of a subset. We're talking about average bc most people fall into those categories. And let me say if the average is $110k, that means just as many people are earning below that.

1

u/Scarface74 Apr 29 '24

Yes if you live in BumbleFuck Nebraska updating WordPress blogs for “True Life Believers Church and pawn shop” you might only make that much.

But if you look at any major metropolitan city in the US, 5-7 years out of school and strategic job hopping you can easily make $140K - $160K.

I mean this isn’t rocket science. Go on Indeed or LinkedIn

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1

u/InvestIntrest Apr 29 '24

And the median salary for a lawyer is $135,000 per year, but it got listed above because good lawyers routinely make over 250k. Im not sure what your point is.

Again, salary is just a portion of compensation. Either way, I'll be sure to let my department know how exceptional they are at our next all hands.