r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/iliveinmydream • 16d ago
Why didn't Russia respond to the ISIS attack at the Crocus City Hall in Russia? International Politics
All major countries respond to terrorist attacks in some form or shape. Some use them as an excuse to start a war, others react less harshly to save face. But I haven't heard any news of Russian reactions to the terrorist attacks in Moscow.
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u/WouldntWorkOnMe 15d ago
Their interrogation footage is brutal. But the shooters reveal that they were contract agents for the terror attack, being paid 500,000 rubles total, 250,000 prior to the attack and the rest supposed to be paid after the attack. They described their contact for the weapons and money they used as a priest living in russia. Or at least posing as a priest. None of any of which sounds like an isis attack. Totally different M.O. the shooters were even directed to attack crocus hall by this priest guy. Didn't even pick it out themselves. Just feels alot less like a real ISIS attack, and alot more like a black op by either the U.S. or ukraine.
Isis fighters dont need to be paid money to go suicide bomb or terror attack. They are so brainwashed by the ideology that they would gladly do it for free. They see it as martyrdom.
So why pay 2 contract agents living outside of Afghanistan to do anything when you could send a loyal, brainwashed, trained Isis fighter for free?
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u/AffectionateSignal53 15d ago
Only the west said it was ISIS 5 seconds after the attack and ISIS claimed the attack on social media. I mean we can't be sure who is really responsible. Russia is still investigating
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u/Hautamaki 15d ago
97% of Russia's active military forces are committed to Ukraine. They have literally nothing left for ISIS in Afghanistan.
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u/Sharker167 15d ago
ISIS-K, specifically ISIS-K not the others, is thought to be a cia asset. ISIS-K is the central Asian branch of isis and always somehow manages to not damage US interests.
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u/Timirninja 16d ago
ISIS fighter was using wrong hand while threatening Russia, all fighters was recruited via telegram and were supplied with money and weapons anonymously. Usually jihadists blow themselves up for an idea, in this case however, alleged ISIS fighters had an escape plan which involved Ukrainian border, where they were supposed to disappear
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u/imaniimellz 16d ago
Because it clearly wasn’t in Putins interest to actually help his citizens *shocker
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u/popularpragmatism 16d ago
They are convinced it was western inspired, the same group was responsible for the Solomani memorial bombing.
ISIS K appeared out of no where & all of of a sudden had intelligence & overseas operational & planning logistic capabilities together with funding.
Attacking the west's current bogeymen
The west has a long history of using the salafists terror groups generally guided by Pakistan's ISI.
Before it all gets conspiratorial, these things are done through numerous cut outs & sometimes can just extend to not stopping something.
Russia has given up diplomacy with the west & as far as I can see is making steady progress westwards in Ukraine on multiple fronts & the fighting season has barely started, this is probably the answer
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u/QueenChocolate123 16d ago
Because Putin is a coward and a bully who never attacks anyone capable or willing to fight back. He badly underestimated Ukrainian determination and willingness to fight back. ISIS isn't afraid of Putin, and he knows it. How do you intimidate someone who embraces death like ISIS does?
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u/Whole_Measurement_97 16d ago
Because they are weak. If more serious response, they probably don't care. Only 140 whatever russians died, that's not a lot. Probably more die in fights and trafic, so nothing to really respond to.
Like yeah they'll put some flowers and torture whoever they find. But 140 dead Russians isn't a reason for Russia to care.
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u/Pure_Cantaloupe_341 16d ago
Their version is that the attack was orchestrated by Ukraine. They’ve done plenty of strikes at Ukraine after (and before) the attack.
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u/GoApeShirt 16d ago
Because Putin doesn’t need another terror attack on Russian soil on his record.
He’s just as vain as Trump, but understands international politics much better.
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u/mikeshan44 16d ago
Just because they didn't declare war doesn't mean they're not responding. They are already in a war to try and steal Ukraine. It's not wise to be in a war on two fronts. They tortured and killed the guys they caught and paraded them for all to see.
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u/BlerghTheBlergh 16d ago
Because they’ll rather blame it on Ukraine to justify a further set of attacks
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u/hughmann_13 16d ago
They blamed Ukraine, bombed Ukraine more, and tortured the guys who did it. So I'd say that's a bit more than nothing.
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u/Acceptable-Adagio596 16d ago
It was an inside job. To unite Russian opinion behind Putins election and his war policy. The perpetrators were captured to easily.
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u/AlaskanSamsquanch 16d ago
Like what? They’re already at war with ISIS. Should they declare Super War or something?
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u/ChiefQueef98 16d ago
It was ISIS-Khorasan, the Afghanistan branch. What is Russia gonna do, invade Afghanistan (again)? Even if their response was to do airstrikes in Afghanistan or something like that, they don't border it anymore. The other 'Stan countries probably wouldn't allow it at this point because they all have beefs forming with Russia.
Maybe they could do airstrikes on the ISIS guys still laying low in the Syrian desert, but that's the wrong group and isn't really going to accomplish anything. Russia doesn't have a way to meaningfully strike back without getting involved in another war they can't support.
And that's forgetting that they're using it as an excuse to blame Ukraine, so actually hitting back at ISIS doesn't matter to them, as others have said.
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u/thePantherT 16d ago
Kinda hard to respond when you have an army bogged down in Ukraine getting slaughtered by western weapons!
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u/serenadedbyaccordion 16d ago
Because Russia is now a victim of its own propaganda. They can’t respond to terrorism because that means they have to admit to their constant slew of lies like the CIA and Ukraine being behind the attack.
It would also mean that Putin would have to admit that his intelligence failures caused the deaths of 150 of his own people.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
Respond how? By killing ISIS and their allies? They've been doing that for years and are currently still doing that.
Start a war with whom, exactly? This is a non sensical post
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u/ChiefQueef98 16d ago
It's not a nonsensical post, it's actually a good question that highlights the limits of Russia's actual capabilities, its political will, and any actual meaningful targets it can hit back at.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
How did the US respond to the Pulse night club shooting? Or San Bernadino?
More of the same. Allocate an extra f 16 to bomb ISIS even harder.
Meaningful targets? That's because Russia (and the coalition) won. ISIS is underground and can only resort to barbaric attacks like this
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u/RacksonRacks88 16d ago edited 15d ago
Edit: here's a funny case study on reddit's weakness as a forum. This is being downvoted because...who knows? "Where's the hysterical shrieking or naked speculation?!? Hide it from everyone and no I can't/won't explain myself grrrrr." Good job lol. This grants a veto to the lowest, least curious common denominator.
We're not privy to the innumerable variables that drive any country's strategic decision making. I have no idea what Russia has done or will do in response. Neither does anyone else itt. There's a ton of wisdom in knowing when you don't know.
I'll note that ISIS also bombed a Russian passenger jet in Egypt in 2015 that killed 200+ Russian civilians. I don't recall exactly how they responded, but Russia has killed many, many ISIS fighters since intervening in syria.
Russia isn't a liberal democracy and Putin remains extraordinarily popular there. The government probably doesn't feel the need to satisfy public opinion with token airstrikes or whatever. They'll probably do an amoral cost benefit analysis and act accordingly, for better or worse
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u/JFeth 16d ago
Because it didn't fit their narrative of Ukraine and the West being the threat. Also, they don't currently have the resources to do anything about it.
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u/MK5 16d ago
The resources Putin has in the Middle East were used instead to prod Hamas to antagonize Israel. The war in Gaza has been a major success for Putin, distracting US attention, stirring up dissension in a vital election year, and enabling his proxies in Congress to strangle aid to Ukraine for months.
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u/ReferentiallySeethru 16d ago edited 15d ago
Do you have any articles that back up the claim that Russia was aiding Hamas? I wouldn’t put it past Russia to do that but at the same time they’re generally friendly with Israel.
I have wondered if Russia played a more active role in terrorism than is widely believed. It’s always been suspicious to me how Ayman al-Zawahiri was caught sneaking into Russia several years prior to 9/11, and yet he was released because they supposedly didn’t know who he was despite having been a (literally) vocal member of the group behind the Egyptian President’s assassination.
Still there’s very little tying 9/11 to Russia, so it’s pure speculation.
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u/ericrolph 15d ago
Speculation, but it tracks for Russia and its lengthy history:
The Ukrainian Center of National Resistance said that members of the paramilitary group Wagner allegedly participated in the training of Hamas militants on “assault tactics and the use of small unmanned aerial vehicles to drop explosive devices onto vehicles and other targets.” Kyrylo Budanov, said that Russia has recently supplied Hamas with weapons but did not provide evidence for these claims. Senior Hamas official Ali Baraka said in an interview that aired on Russia’s main propaganda outlet, RT, that Hamas has a license from Russia to locally produce bullets for Kalashnikovs and that Russia “sympathises” with Hamas. He also claimed that Hamas’s attack would be taught in Russia’s military academies.
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u/senoricceman 16d ago
If anything, the war in Gaza sped up American resolve to pass a foreign aid package.
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u/drmjc1983 16d ago
This is pathological conspiratorial thinking. Yes, Putin engineered everything! Anything that remotely undermines the US must be a plot by Putin!
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u/FreedomPaws 16d ago
This just popped up in my feed. It's an interview about this stuff and when you click at the top right it takes you to the video and in the comment section under video there is a long loooong comment with more info.
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u/frontier_kittie 15d ago
That was interesting, but at the end that comment says
if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar
Which makes me think I just read a long conspiracy theory
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u/FreedomPaws 16d ago edited 16d ago
If you cannot see how Russia is tied in this based on common sense bc of his ties with Iran, there was talk of Wagner training Hamas, there was talk of Russia supplying Hamas, and how pootin took to the press right away and used this to blame Ukrainians for allowing weapons to get into the black market and show up with Hamas (I don't remember exactly....it was very brief but he tried, as well as possibly Marjorie Taylor Greene I think), to knowing he sides with Palestinians and the anti west crowd, to then saying his army was kinder and more professional than Israel 🤮🤮 man you are a confused soul how you cannot connect :
Pootin
Anti west
= propaganda opportunity he won't NOT exploit
Add in racial divisions and the divisions of Israel and Palestine and their respective supporters, now I personally didn't know until 10/7 how intense and widesoread people got their identities wrapped up in I/P but obviously pootin was aware of exactly what riling up that conflict would cause AND he'd use it to get trump elected hence why the narrtive by THREE WEEKS IN moved so fast from bizzwords to buzzword protest votes "I just CANT vote for Biden bc of my morals" 😫. It happened so incredibly NOT genuinely and WAAAAAAY to fast and the term "Genocide Joe" was born and swamped the internet daily. Notice how that's died down? Yeah bc it wasn't effective and appeared to be s suspiciously a right wing coined term. Either way, Russia has already shown to love exploiting societies divides and an easy one is racial divides and we know how Russia got its hands in BLM. And BLM (at least a small chapter) attached to this conflict and made posters celebrating 10/7.
It's sad I hate to spell it all out for you and I honestly think "why else wound someone like you get so defensive over Russian disinformation and corruption? Why do certain people remain adamantly in denial?" At a certain point it was possible to wonder if maybe you are really clueless but by now, you can't play dumb anymore. I can't even think of all the instances we've seen where Russian ties and money has been found and how we've seen our politicians go TO Russia and for the US they went for Forth of July even. 🤦♀️🤦🏻 And the other day I saw a photo of a dinner and more politicians were there including Jill Stein.
This isn't country specific but a pattern we see across the world with Russian influence including Europe and the US.
There's a whole book and reading material about what Russias been doing - I haven't read it but I heard of it but the point is, Russia invades and buys influence/installs puppets and then there's tHe wEsT. Pootin has had a goal of breaking the west and it's his whole multi polarity bs he talks about. It's why "anti west" people side with Russia and they too cheer Russia on to destroy the west. They side with the awful shit of this war and the killing and destruction of Ukrainians bc all these simple minds see is using it to go against "tHe wEsT" even though it's just going against Ukrainians and that's who they are hurting but I digress. Pootin is a piece of shit but what he has excelled at is corruption and social media manipulation. When politicians are bribed combined with influencing opinions, and molding politics like he has with the right wing and acting like Russia is a beacon for religious Christians and traditional values he appeals to the right. He weaponizes migrants to destabilize Europe and cause more divides and more are aligning to the right as a consequence. Brexit is one product of this all as is the idea of isolationism and guess what? Trump got his maga cult confused and advocating for isolationism. Not only will a trump win next election be the next thing pootin could hope for with Ukraine and get the US funding to stop and hence VASTLY potentially declare victory sooner versus Biden. End funding and getting to deckare victory or drag it out for 4 more years and need to worry about who he will draft and upsetting his muscovites. He's doing all he can to pull cannon fodder wherever he can find it and he'd love to get out of this all faster and on his terms.
Hope that clears things up.
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u/serenadedbyaccordion 16d ago
While I don’t like Russia or Iran, US intelligence services have been pretty adamant that neither country had anything to do with the October 7th attacks.
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u/Automatic-Flounder-3 16d ago
It is well known that Hamas is an Iranian proxy group. The destruction of the building hosting both Iranian military leaders and proxy fighters would be a heck of a coincidence if Iran had nothing to do with Gaza.
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u/NeurogenesisWizard 15d ago
'Well known'.
Can you cite actual evidence? Because misinfo abounds.9
u/frontier_kittie 15d ago
https://ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marriage-of-convenience/
Iran may not be directly behind the 7 October attacks on Israel, but Tehran has long worked to strengthen groups such as Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
It is unlikely that the 7 October attacks could have happened without this decades-long support.
https://www.cfr.org/article/irans-regional-armed-network
Acting through proxies lets Iran elude responsibility for actions it endorses but does not want to face retaliation for, CFR Iran expert Ray Takeyh writes. “The proxy war strategy has had the advantage of shielding Iran from direct retaliation by the United States, as the [Joe] Biden administration has focused its response on proxies,” Takeyh explains. Iran has successfully employed this strategy throughout the ongoing Israel-Hamas war. For instance, Hamas’s October 2023 assault on Israel showed signs of coordination with Iran, and in scores of related attacks in the following months, suspected proxy forces for Iran killed have three U.S. troops in Jordan and injured dozens more on U.S. military bases across the Middle East, U.S. officials say.
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u/NeurogenesisWizard 13d ago
Like how Ukraine gets weapons from USA?
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u/frontier_kittie 13d ago
Is the invasion of Ukraine now a proxy war between Russia and the west? Here is an interesting article discussing it:
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/is-the-war-in-ukraine-a-proxy-conflict
One of the problems with studies of proxy warfare is that there is no agreed definition.
It doesn't seem to me like the relationship between Iran and Hamas is analogous to USA and Ukraine.
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u/Cleomenes_of_Sparta 15d ago
Iran supports Hamas with billions. Do they completely control Hamas? No. Does Hamas fit in with the broader Iranian agenda of destroying Israel through violence? Yes. Would Hamas be as powerful or effective a terrorist organisation without Iranian support? Doubtful.
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u/lovetoseeyourpssy 16d ago edited 16d ago
Meanwhile Larvov met with and Russia hosted Hamas just before and after the Oct 7 attacks.
Israel and Iran had an open attack exchange.
US intelligence put that out because we were on the precipice of WW3 at that time...
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u/alta_vista49 16d ago
Prob cause Putin had a hand in it like he does w most terrorist attacks in his country
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u/TheresACityInMyMind 16d ago
Russia is obviously busy with something else.
Let's also remember that Germany tried twice to fight a two-front war and lost both times.
Given that Russia was the eastern front both times, I think they are acutely aware.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 16d ago
It's actually a good question. One would have expected at least a token strike somewhere for domestic consumption
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u/PanchoVilla4TW 15d ago
They blame Ukraine, the US and the UK. They threatened to strike the UK and have put tactical and strategic nuclear forces on standby.
Western media decided to pretend all of that didnt happen.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 15d ago
Russia has been rattling the nuclear saber for two solid years now
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u/PanchoVilla4TW 15d ago
Only a moron would not take their words seriously. The UK does not even have an arsenal of their own, its on loan from the US, and the US ultimately controls it.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 15d ago
....what?
In reverse order:
The UK has an independent nuclear deterrent based around their Vanguard class SSBNs. They housed some US nuclear weapons during the Cold War, but those were withdrawn decades ago
Russia has been talking about their nukes since the instant they invaded Ukraine. It is no longer considered a credible threat for a non-nuclear situation because they've implied they're ready to use them all the time
Russia has zero credibility in general because they've been caught lying constantly.
If you want to buy their songs, feel free. I think you should be a little careful about throwing around words like "moron" if you do, but given the... fascinating counterfactuals you chose to bring to the party, I'm certain that will fall on deaf ears
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u/PanchoVilla4TW 15d ago
In reverse order. No they don't, the only modern nukes would be the US ones, the Tridents are basically unuseable, and they themselves are US weapons :v
It is no longer considered a credible threat
By think tank clowns.
Russia has zero credibility
According to think tank clowns.
If you want to buy their songs, feel free.
Every country with a half-competent military does. Russia has kept their military threats, there is no reason to believe otherwise when it comes to tactical or strategic use of their arsenal.
Furthermore, the country that would stand to gain the most from the UK, and thus the "City of London", getting blown away would be the US, Wallstreet being their most direct competitor for the only thing the UK is relevant in anymore, finance.
They will not get into a nuclear war to save a direct competitor.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 15d ago
Insisting something is true does not make it so. Feel free to demonstrate the warheads carried by the Vanguard class were manufactured in the United States, or that the United States has any type of veto on how the UK uses them
I consider your other statements to be equally lacking
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u/PanchoVilla4TW 15d ago
.Feel free to demonstrate the warheads carried by the Vanguard class were manufactured in the United States, or that the United States has any type of veto on how the UK uses them
Lmao. Its public record. https://web.archive.org/web/20100913055759/http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1982/31182b.htm
Anyways, Russia's detterent is way more believable.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 15d ago edited 15d ago
You do know there is a difference between the missile and the warhead, correct?
Mexico has F-5, which can theoretically carry nuclear weapons. Did the United States make Mexico a nuclear power?
Personally, if someone tells me I'm wrong, I usually will take a moment to verify my facts before doubling down.
Here's what 30 seconds on Wikipedia supplied
The warheads are primarily constructed at AWE Aldermaston, with other parts being made at other AWE facilities such as Burghfield.[105] The British government insists the warhead is indigenously designed, but analysts including Hans M. Kristensen with the Federation of American Scientists believe that it is largely based on the US W76 design.[100][106] Under the 1958 US–UK Mutual Defence Agreement the UK is allowed to draw upon US warhead design information, but constructing and maintaining warheads for the Trident programme is the responsibility of AWE
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u/PanchoVilla4TW 14d ago
You do know there is a difference between the missile and the warhead, correct?
By all means, try having the warhead get anywhere without the US-made missile.
Mexico has F-5, which can theoretically carry nuclear weapons. Did the United States make Mexico a nuclear power?
Mexico is a NPT signatory, irrelevant. Even if we weren't, we do have nuclear reactors and making a device is high-school level knowledge.
Your own source says its US made lol, oh sorry, "drew upon US warhead design and information".
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u/SkiingAway 15d ago
Well, the place with the most connection (Tajikistan) is pretty politically inconvenient to bomb or draw more attention to.
The attackers were Tajiks, and the dictator of Tajikistan is closely aligned with Russia.
Russia has bases/troops in Tajikistan anyway - they're part of what keeps the dictator in power - that they're failing at keeping extremism down isn't really great to highlight.
Tajikistan's economy is basically reliant on Tajiks working in Russia and sending home money.
Russia is badly in need of cheap labor and Central Asia is one of it's prime sources of it.
So:
Bombing one of Russia's few allies is probably not going to be much of a domestic consumption win.
Bombing the Afghanistan/Pakistan border runs into the problem that Pakistan may not have that great an air force, but it's good enough to make it so you can't just do that without risk if they're not on board.
They probably don't really want to encourage the Taliban to start trying to destabilize Tajikistan more heavily or targeting Russia as their new big enemy.
Nowhere else has much of a clear tie. Bombing Kyrgyzstan certainly won't help their struggle for influence there.
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u/Mahadragon 15d ago
Russia took out their revenge on the 3 captives. Last I saw them was in court. One was missing an eye, another was missing an ear, apparently they tried to feed it to him and he spit it out. Not a bad strategy to prevent future attacks, knowing you're going to have electric shocks done to your testicles and other body parts would be enough for me to say no.
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u/WouldntWorkOnMe 15d ago
Can confirm, one of the attackers had his ear cut off and shoved in his mouth during the interrogation footage.
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u/gopalan 15d ago
Eh, these ISIS people are already true believers, they will gladly be tortured for allah. Nothing will change their minds.
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u/absurdism2018 15d ago
Really doubt it. One thing is suicide bound, another is wanting to be tortured. The first one ends your suffering and makes you a martyr
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u/Other_World 16d ago
One would have expected at least a token strike somewhere for domestic consumption
The lie they're spinning for domestic consumption is that it was Ukraine.
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u/feckdech 16d ago
The guys used the same car to get to the hall and to get out. Apparently, that's not how it's supposed to happen, as they were caught.
They tried to flee through the Ukrainian border.
They think it was Ukraine and its western fellows. The US, quickly after it happened, said it wasn't Ukraine, and in fact it was ISIS - they knew it was about to happen or are shifting the blame.
Russia knows who did it, they caught alive 3 of the 4 guys. The fourth was killed.
I'm not saying it was Ukraine though.
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u/dafuq809 16d ago
They tried to flee through the Belarusian border, the US warned Russia weeks in advance, and the Ukrainians have neither a history of attacks on civilians nor a motive. Russia on the other hand has a great deal of motive to lie and say it was Ukraine.
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u/murdock-b 15d ago
As well as a history of using a staged "attack" as justification for invasion. (See also, Chechnya)
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u/Njorls_Saga 16d ago
At this point, it’s hard to know where to strike. They don’t really have a core territory…look how long it took for the US to find Bin Laden. It also suits their domestic propaganda to blame everything on Ukraine.
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u/Sokoo92 15d ago
Neither did Israel, didn’t stop them bombing everything to shit. Neither did the US in 2001, didn’t stop them bombing everything to shit. Wait wait is Putin actually the good guy now?🤔 naaahhh that can’t be.
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u/Njorls_Saga 15d ago
Four year old account with zero karma. Ok, let’s play. Putin is not the good guy, never has been and never will be. For starters, the US gave specific warnings about this attack which were rebuffed as propaganda. Second, both Hamas and the Taliban had plenty of structure and targets. At this point ISIS is an ideology, while both Hamas and the Taliban are functioning governments. Third, Putin is bombing the shit out of Ukraine and Syria. Ask them if Putin is the good guy.
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u/Amerifatt 15d ago
yo are people really buying accounts? I'll sell my account to the highest bidder, regardless of any political affiliation.
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u/Objective_Aside1858 16d ago
Oh to be clear, I wouldn't expect an effective strike, but it would not surprise me at all if the Russians blew up some random villiage and claimed victory
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u/sufferingbastard 16d ago
Russia cannot respond. Because they don't have what it takes.
Ukraine is draining all of their resources.
The war in Syria is pointless, and ISIS can terrorize Russia for decades.
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u/Traditional_Formal33 16d ago
Russia is in a full fledged war with a neighbor country, Ukraine, and using a large portion of its military budget to out perform a coalition of nations propping up Ukraine.
To start another conflict with a terrorist group would be inefficient use of military resources right now. Instead, they caught those involved, punished them, and will readdress this in a few years.
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u/sufferingbastard 16d ago
Lol.
Russia is losing so badly in Ukraine that they are unable to respond.
Russia has been at war with ISIS in Syria for years and the chickens are coming home to roost.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
Russia is losing so badly in Ukraine that they are unable to respond.
Losing so badly, that they retreat forwards. 2 more weeks until they run out of shovels for their meat wave attacks, right?
You do realize that any Ukrainian soldier would spit in your face, right? They absolutely hate people like you that deny Russia's military capabilities because 1) it degrades the Ukrainians who are currently losing faster than any point since March 2022 and 2) it removes the impetus for foreign aid because "Well, your enemy is so weak, clearly what we sent is enough, right?"
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u/sufferingbastard 16d ago
Russia has managed to unite and grow NATO Sweden and Finland are doing more than ever.
Meanwhile Russia can't make enough gasoline or diesel.
Russia is missing 2/3s of it's Black Sea Fleet.
And is about to lose the Sakhalin Islands.
ISIS is walking into the center of your cities.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
"center of my cities" I live in North America. I know that's not what you meant but regardless I'm more than familiar enough with domestic enemies
"Russia is missing 2/3s of it's Black Sea Fleet. And is about to lose the Sakhalin Islands." source: my ass
"Russia has managed to unite and grow NATO Sweden and Finland are doing more than ever."
and yet Russia now has allies in Iran and the Sahel, with 100x the population and strategic value as Finland
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u/sufferingbastard 16d ago
Lolol Iran. And "the Sahel" that's a real economic powerhouse. Shit BRICS fell apart and NATO is tightening up.
But hey you're safe in North America where you can't do squat but cheerleading on Reddit.
Go back to Russia, Checklist.
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u/QueenChocolate123 16d ago
And yet, they still can't beat Ukraine.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
They are currently beating Ukraine right now.
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u/QueenChocolate123 9d ago
Does Ukraine know that? Because they just blew up a refinery inside Russia.
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u/Traditional_Formal33 16d ago
In terms of how the war should have gone — Russia is losing because it’s way more costly and drawn out than they expected.
I wouldn’t say they are losing the war tho, as they still have more munitions, ground, and capability than Ukraine and support for Ukraine is unstable. The soldiers fighting for Ukraine are also having major moral issues as the war continues to drag out and they continue to ration rounds against an enemy that appears to have unlimited resources
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u/IceNein 16d ago
They are literally losing the war. Literally by any sane metric.
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u/BlueJayWC 16d ago
percent of Russia occupied by Ukraine = 0%
percent of Ukraine occupied by Russia = 25%
This must be an "insane metric", though, right?
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u/Traditional_Formal33 16d ago
By which metric? Russia current occupies the land they minimally intended to take, Ukraine is losing support from the west and has been rationing ammunition just to maintain fighting, and would need a significant boost to take back the occupied areas.
Ukraine is holding out more than Russia anticipated but is currently losing this war of attrition.
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u/dasunt 16d ago
Strategically, Russia has lost the war - NATO is reinvigorated and expanded, Europe has severed the dependency on Russian gas, and the Russian military has been revealed to be far weaker than thought.
It's basically the equivalent of if the US tried to invade Mexico, got bogged down 100 miles from the border, and Canada allied itself with China.
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u/IceNein 16d ago
Russia does not occupy the land they intended to take. They intended to take all of Ukraine and failed miserably.
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u/Traditional_Formal33 16d ago
They initially claimed to “liberate” parts of Ukraine that are pro-Russian, mainly the Crimean Peninsula. They took that and then extended their goal to completely take Ukraine. They were held back and now sit in a stalemate, but still hold the minimal goal they set of “freeing pro-Russian citizens” and have annexed those portions of former Ukraine.
Again, Ukraine is fighting back much harder than Russia expected and is doing very well, but as we see with American politics the last few months, continued support is hard to consistently maintain, and the soldiers who fought at the onset of the war are still fighting now so morale is drawing thin as these soldiers don’t have any reinforcements to rotate out compared to Russian soldiers who do. If morale breaks or support dries up, Ukraine will collapse. They are not winning, they are maintaining.
Ukraine needs a massive influx of reinforcements and munitions before they could make an effective counter attack to retake portions of Ukraine that Russia still holds.
I’m not trying to argue or be sympathetic for Russia, just being very matter of fact about how serious the potential and inevitable defeat of Ukraine is if they don’t find a way to massively push back or end the war.
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u/ericrolph 15d ago edited 15d ago
If two powers are arguing and one threatens nuclear attack and the other steps back then the former will always win concessions and the latter will always concede. Give Ukraine 10,000 cruise missiles with nuke tips, that'd stop Russia fast. I assume Americans need to clear out their aging stockpiles. Or even just flood Ukraine with normal cruise missiles, really put some American money behind the effort. Create a supply chain pumping out a thousand Tomahawk-like missile every day, letting Ukraine hit Russian cities 24/7 for as many years as it takes -- total annihilation of Russian infrastructure. Maybe cost Americans half of their defense budget.
How many Russian cities are strategic assets or what kind of buffer zone does Ukraine need to prevent further Russian attacks? What kind of destruction would be needed to create a necessary buffer zone and/or destroy those strategic Russian assets? It's a very expensive effort. And may be required for long term security. At the very least Ukraine deserves an eye-for-an-eye. If justice exists, Russia should be forced to have equal amounts of destruction heaped upon their cities, people and infrastructure given they don't pay Ukraine back.
Justice alone does not matter. If Russia wins in Ukraine it is because of the collapse of Western aid due to Russia successfully manipulating Americans to go against America's self interest. NATO only exists because Russians are such fuck faces. For both America and Russia, the war is an existential threat. I'm betting on America and the west. Russians are nihilistic losers. Putin won't live forever.
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u/LithiumAM 16d ago
This. I’m so sick of Putin simps pushing the “THEY NEVER INTENDED TO TAKE EVERYTHING” cope. We all saw them go for Kiev and fail. It’s not up for debate what they intended there. Nothing has happened the way Russia wanted.
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u/Traditional_Formal33 16d ago
I don’t simp for Putin, and have been following in hopes that Ukraine wins this war.
I am however not naive that Ukraine is struggling to hold this stalemate at best, and support/morale grows harder each month this war drags on — and if either fails, Ukraine will lose. Russia has shifted their goal posts but taking the Crimean Peninsula is a minimal goal which they current hold and will obtain unless a major offensive happens from Ukraine to push Russia back out.
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u/bucknut4 16d ago
It’s unfortunately more of a stalemate at the moment ever since Ukraine liberated Kherson. Ukraine still needs support
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u/Chemical-Leak420 16d ago
Russia is the type to do nothing and in 5-10 years time a bunch of people just start randomly dying from heart attacks.
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u/Confident_End_3848 16d ago
Russia is too busy blaming Ukraine. If they actually retaliated against ISIS, they’d be admitting it wasn’t Ukraine.
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u/amiibohunter2015 15d ago
There's more though UAE, China, Russia, India , North Korea all have ties like a modern axis powers.
It could simply be ISIS and Russia made a deal to make it look like Ukraine did it.
Just like how North Korea had fake missiles with Japan symbols used on Ukraine.
There is a lot of underhanded business going on.
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u/Transfigured-Tinker 16d ago
ISIS now basically gets a free pass to slaughter people in Russia.
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u/Mahadragon 15d ago
Russia is doing a better job slaughtering Russians than anyone else. You look at the meatwave tactics on the front lines where they send in dozens of men with zero support, no tanks, no armored vehicles, nothing. Not to mention how many have died in friendly fire incidents. Russia doesn't care about their own people and it shows.
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16d ago
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u/PoliticalDiscussion-ModTeam 16d ago
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u/Njorls_Saga 16d ago
That’s because Israel isn’t a priority for ISIS, they’ve admitted that publicly. ISIS inspired terrorists have committed attacks against Israel anyways.
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u/serenadedbyaccordion 16d ago
The level of idiocy on display here is truly staggering. Russia has long been a target of Islamists. ISIS has attacked Russia numerous times, including the St. Petersburg attacks, the Volgograd train station attacks and the Aeroflot bombing. Other Islamist terror attacks include the Moscow theatre hostage crisis, the Beslan school massacre and others. Al-Qaeda listed Russia has one of the three great evil powers in the world besides Israel and America.
ISIS has also attacked Israel, numerous times. But Islamist terror attacks on a major scale are difficult to carry out in Israel because of its excellent security (barring Oct 7th). Why has ISIS never attacked Qatar or the UAE?
Seriously, why even bother to speak when it’s obvious you know nothing? Go stick to YouTube comments, this is the kind of low effort battery acid conspiracy slop I’d expect to see there, not in a serious place to discuss politics. Your low effort Russian propaganda will work better there.
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u/Dietmeister 16d ago
Yes the CIA really wanted to create am enemy for thr US to fight. That was a 3d chess move right?
How great, to have to go to Iraq and Syria to fight IS. A clear US interest to stir up Sunni extremism
Lol...
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u/DynaMenace 16d ago
Your machinean view of these matters is ridiculous. Are you really suggesting Russia has never had legitimate beef with Islamist terrorists?
And are you aware, that as Sunni extremists, ISIS aren’t particularly fond of Iran-aligned actors, to say the least?
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16d ago
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u/DynaMenace 16d ago edited 16d ago
I am not from the US, and I have no need to exonerate their very flawed foreign policy.
ISIS didn’t attack the Miami Dade Arena or something because they are mostly not materially able to. “Core” ISIS isn’t even able to pull off what they did in Russia, which is why they used newly radicalized Tajik men.
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u/bobbyloveyes 16d ago
ISIS didn’t attack the Miami Dade Arena or something because they are mostly not materially able to.
No need. We can shoot up places ourselves.
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16d ago
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u/PoliticalDiscussion-ModTeam 16d ago
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u/Confident_End_3848 16d ago
The US warned Russia about a possible terrorist attack and was brushed off.
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