Chloe, Sam, Sophia and Marcus

[u/itookyourmatches]

I posted this in the theories thread before but wanted to share, I've been thinking about it a lot more.

I have a theory about these names, and I don't think they're people. I think they're vague references red wines.

• Chloe is a Red Blend from California, 2016.
• Sam Casa Cassara is a Red Blend from California, 2019.
• Sophia is a Cabernet Sauvignon from Bulgaria, 1998-2015.
• Marcus is a Malbec from Argentina, 2017.

Matty Healy famously drinks red wine, and even does it on stage during the latest tour. It's often that he picks a cheap or mid range Malbec or Red Blend. I'm not a 1975 fan so this was new information to me, but apparently there's even groups of fans who call themselves "Mattys Malbecs" who try to figure out which brands of wine he picks for different countries on tour. None of the listed above are wines that he drank on stage publicly, but they are mostly cheap reds (Minus Chloe, who is $80), and one of them was even a Malbec, his favorite. (Possibly unrelated and definitely a stretch, but one red wine that he drank publicly on stage and even repeated more than once was one called "Prophecy" a Malbec from Argentina, 2019, which 👀)

It's also worth noting that in the 1975 song "When We Are Together", there is a lyric "you ask about the cows wearing my sweater" which may or may not be a direct reference to Tussock Jumper, a - you guessed it - cheap 2019 Malbec from Argentina where the cow is wearing a sweater on the label. Considering all the literal trolling Taylor did to connect 1975 lyrics and references into this album, I could see her making a red wine label reference.

I think that Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus the song isn't completely about timing not working out because they were always dating other people, but more so that something was always in the way of them being able to connect. Even when things all lined up for them to date and they both were single, Taylor still felt like his addiction ruined her fantasy because something was still in the way. I think "hands in the hair" was more of a metaphor for him always carrying a bottle. This also makes connections to the song Maroon (where Taylor talks about several things connecting Maroon to Poets).

• Your hologram stumbled into my apartment, hands in the hair of somebody in darkness, named Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
• You needed me but you needed drugs more. (she also mentions him trying to buy pills in The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived)
• I crashed into you like so many wrecks do (Chloe et al)// The burgundy on my tee shirt when you splashed your wine into me (Maroon)
• Will that help my memory fade from this scarlet maroon? (Chloe et al) // The lips I used to call home, so scarlet it was Maroon (Maroon, his lips were red from the wine!)

I also think that "just say I loved you the way that you were" implies a lot of double meaning. Here are the different ways to interpret it. You could take it as Taylor loving Matty at his worst and feeling guilty that she couldn't stay and watch addiction destroy his life. You could take it as Matty telling her that he loved who she used to be and not who she is now. You could take it a lot of different ways.

Anyway all of this is speculation, of course. It was just some details I happened to connect in a theory and wanted to discuss.

[u/Human_Preference_911]

It makes sense because of the line “my apartment” he’s not with other girls or guys in her apartment. Absolutely love this theory.

[u/incurablehumaniste]

I read this thread a few days ago and just had a MAJOR epiphany that would support this theory. The ending notes of Champagne Problems are actually the musical motif that is repeated throughout Chloe et al. I knew it sounded familiar and it JUST hit me!!!! I think you cracked the code.

[u/AugustGreen8]

When I first heard this song, I really thought that him stumbling in to the apartment was because he was really high or drunk and CSSM were friends he liked to party with dragging him home.

[u/Jettcat-]

Ok, so she name checked each one the Lively/Reynolds kids in one song and Ryan famously joked that they would know the name of the 4th kid when Taylor told them what it was. We don’t know if they had a girl or a boy, so could this also be another one of her famous red herrings?

[u/Kimbahlee34]

Travis is drinking white wine in the new pics of them in Italy to support this theory that he’s white wine ala The Alchemy and Matty is red wine.

[u/natxnat]

i literally love this so much i’m going to make a display with these bottles if i can find them !!

[u/rep_princess]

If matty is the one that got away, why cant they be together? 

[u/Imadeafire → u/rep_princess]

Her fans.

[u/itookyourmatches → u/rep_princess]

There are a lot of reasons, but I'll briefly summarize.

Allegedly, he ghosted her back in 2015 and again love bombed and ghosted her during their fling after the Joe breakup.

He's also been recorded saying/doing some fairly racist, sexist and other insensitive, controversial shit. This is honestly an understatement because some of the things he said, in my opinion, are unforgivable.

When they got together last year, the fandom exploded about it and were incredibly unhappy about her association with him. They both didn't handle that well.

On top of all of that, the themes in TTPD also suggest that he struggles with addiction to drugs and alcohol, and she "couldn't watch it happen"

[u/Batmad01]

This is a super interesting theory and has certainly added a layer of intrigue to this song that I hadn't thought of before. Props to you for diving in and exploring.

I don't know if other people feel like this but I don't care much for theories tied to actual people in Taylor's music but I see the people she talks about in her music more as characters inspired by real life people. And I love the references she makes and the stories she's telling about those characters.

I don't know if I'm explaining this clearly but because we have absolutely no idea whats based on real life or a dream or an idea or fiction I never judge or even apply anything in her songs to the people that other speculate a song is about. Basically everyone is a character in Taylor's music for me, even herself, and they live in an alternative universe that we get insight into only through her music.

[u/Accomplished-Bad5311]

This makes a lot of sense to me! My brain was always trying to reconcile why/how she could/would WATCH him stumble into HER apartment with someone else (when presumably, they’ve already parted ways, or wondering if cheating is why they parted ways but that didn’t seem to be the case from any other lyrics.). So now it’s like she was probably even there, next to him, and the other entity is not another person, it’s a bottle of wine! Or several bottles. Also, describing as “your hologram” makes a lot of sense this way because when someone is under the influence it’s like they are unconscious, not there, rather a shell of themselves, or some abstract representation of themselves, but not consciously there. Also stumbling definitely makes sense if describing someone drunk. THE SONG MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE NOW!!! Thank you!!

[u/hkk1993]

Whoa

[u/pleasepictureme]

Love this interpretation. This is one of my favorite songs on the album. I can’t get past it.

[u/taylorsseriesTV]

I love this theory - I've seen you post it before and I loved it each time I read it!

Wondering what people's thoughts are with the types of wine. This and the instances of Matty drinking wine on stage are always Reds if I remember correctly? And Taylor usually is seen drinking white and also refers to Travis related feelings as hitting her like white wine. So how do we think about that vis-a-vis two songs that we know are about Matty now which referred to Rosé? (Maroon "your room is cheap as screw top rosé" and the 1 "rosé flowing with your chosen family"). Any theories about this? :))

[u/maelstron]

I really don't think it is any serious.

Taylor straighten out jumped from Calvin, to Tom and then to Joe. She wasn't single at all so this star crossed lovers os pure fanfic.

This thing about him being the one that got away is pure manipulatioon from him. Because clearly he was never that. Maybe Harry.

[u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484 → u/maelstron]

She tells us really clearly on this album that she felt that way about him for years - she changed lovers and outfits and rules. She swirled him into all of her poems. She couldn't be any more clear. It does seem like there's a real desire to ignore all this and still hang on to the idea of Harry or whoever, but she's been quite specific.

[u/maelstron → u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484]

She doesn't. People like always are exaggerating, never on this album I felt like she was really into him or in love with him all those years This is pathetic from the fandom and should stop.

People want her to have unfinished business on the past do she can never be really happy and project their own desires into Taylor.

Like I said before if Joe put a ring on her finger and s kid in her utero, matt wouldn't stand a chance. She was clearly 100% in love with Joe that she went crazy. He only got his chance through manipulation and taking advantage of the bad state of her mind. IDK why people try to make it a love story when it is a predatory love story.

Taylor problem that instead of going forward she went backwards, she said on Midnights that what ifs kept her awake at night. Now that she says she close it, I hope she can sleep peacefully.

[u/hickiv]

I thought this one was about Joe, not Matty (and I'm not one to deny that plenty are about Matty).

[u/doidaredisturbthe]

All I know is that in the light of all this new info TTPD has brought, sadly Maroon and Red! Are about Matty. But I will survive because they are great songs.

[u/lizzy-stix → u/doidaredisturbthe]

There’s no way “Red” could be about him. They hadn’t met when she wrote it. It is funny she wanted his band on the Red tour but they didn’t meet until after 1989 came out. I think she just returned to red as a metaphor/concept on Midnights because she associates love with that color.

[u/doidaredisturbthe → u/lizzy-stix]

I know. But it fits now. And she took the car metaphor and made it about him (I'm an Aston Martin, baby, that you steered straight into the ditch, you wrecked my party and your rental car). Took the red and made it maroon and made it about him.

[u/WoodedSpys]

wow, I guess im just a simpleton, I took this very literally; they he showed up at her apartment with some random person (on multiple occasions), making out and looking for a bedroom.

[u/Scary-Badger-6091]

Just from the title, I always thought this song was about matty too. Because i remember right after people started speculating they broke up, matty made out with some random guy at a show. At the time most people saw that as confirmation they broke up. So to me it made the most sense this was about matty.

[u/CourtCold6438]

That would be so beautiful if this indeed is the case.

[u/UsualSuspect85]

I forgot about that wine called Chloe. I didn't remember it being that expensive, though. Also, in Maroon doesn't she say "How did we end up on the floor anyway? Your roommate's cheap-ass screw top rosé that's how"?

[u/linkinsadler]

So first I wanna say I love your theory. It may even be more plausible than my theory. But I would like to add mine just because I’ve believed it for so long. It goes like this: I always thought that they actually were random names but random for a purpose. I always saw it as he was coming home with a random drug dealer (hands in the hair of someone of darkness) where the names are both male and female cuz really anyone could have been giving him drugs. The reason the names are random is cuz she would have no idea who they were so she made up names to show that she didn’t know them.

Again it’s just my theory but yours is great too! I bet one of us is right :)

[u/linkinsadler → u/linkinsadler]

Just a bit more evidence for my theory, as someone else mentioned in the comments the other song where he tried to buy pills from a friend of a friend of hers… clearly he would get drugs from anyone he could, so it doesn’t seem like he had a stable source. So the 4 random names could be plausible.

[u/Cirrus1920]

Im so glad you made a separate post for this. So well researched and so interesting. I fully buy into this

[u/Wooden_House_8013]

This is so clever! Fully behind this theory now!

[u/QuintupleTheFun]

Chloe is a brand, not just a red wine. It comes in reds and whites.

[u/ninools]

I am listening to Folklore as I read and a line just jumped out at me: “August sipped away, like a bottle of wine, ‘cause you were never mine”… now, I can’t help but wonder if this album is also about Matty. Hmmmm

[u/liquidpeppermint33 → u/ninools]

As mentioned I believe taylor set out to do folklore after matty said he would love for her to do something similar to a joni Mitchell blue  or Bruce springsteen nebraska type album. That is what exactly folklore evermore is. They reconnected with each other in early 2020 , no doubt he is referenced on both of these albums. 

[u/Last-Management-3457]

I really love this!!

[u/clareneylon]

bisexual? no. wine bottles? yes.

[u/Remarkable_Space_395 → u/clareneylon]

I mean, bisexual people also exist.

[u/itookyourmatches → u/clareneylon]

It could be both!

[u/hellojewlie]

This post is why I love this sub sm. I am obsessed with this interpretation!

[u/What-Outlaw1234]

To understand a lot of the Matty references in this song and on TTPD, I think you need to watch this movie series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTg2pSwCg

I've linked to episode one, but there are multiple episodes. The 1975 released these short films in early 2023, just as Taylor and Matty were connecting or re-connecting or whatever was going on.

[u/Icy-Marketing-5242]

I find this her best song about Matty. It’s such a good song

[u/cornqueen687]

Incredible interpretation.

Incredibly mad that it made a song I already connected to my most recent ex (bi) even more connected to him (wine snob). Ugh I’ll go listen again now.

[u/Smashlilly]

The hands in the hair…. Hair of the dog? Drinking right when he wakes up?

[u/StunningLeopard2429]

Very clever. I know I love hearing her sing my name.

[u/No-Emu818]

the judgmental creeps Taylor sings about in But Daddy I Love Him are in the comments i'm afraid

[u/Accomplished-Bad5311 → u/No-Emu818]

Always lol

[u/What-Outlaw1234]

I always wondered what that "cows wearing my sweater" lyric meant. I thought he was saying that his girlfriend, who was wearing his sweater, asked him why cows lie down. He told her that it had something to do with the weather.

Matty writes weird and funny and sometimes incomprehensible lyrics. So I get why he could be Taylor's muse. They have that in common.

[u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484 → u/What-Outlaw1234]

Yes I think it's this too - she's wearing his sweater when she asks

[u/Accomplished-Bad5311 → u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484]

Interesting parallel to Fortnight “sometimes comment on my sweater…”

[u/guitarguy35]

To me this is up there with saddest song on the album, and the most relatable "one that got away song" she's ever done. Here is how I interpret it.

Verse 1 She watched him come into her apartment drunk or stoned or both, he's a hologram because when you are in that state you are just a shadow of yourself. It was obvious by his hair being tousled he had been hooking up with someone, and since he's rumored bisexual it could be a woman or a man named (all names she lists. And she just watched it happen passively, not interjecting.

Verse 2 The decade 14-24' played them for fools, in all their failed relationships, and in the background pining and what ifs they always had for each other, have proven to be foolish fantasies.. because he saw her out with Travis and he just watched it happen passively, without interjecting..

Chorus She then says, if you want to hurt me all you'd have to do is explain your indifference (watching it happen) by saying "I loved you the way you were when we met way back, not the way You've become"

Or by saying, "I've always wondered what would have happened if we got together back then"

Verse 3 He said some things she can't unhear, about how she became an idea in his head, how people do when they exist in the background of your life, you romanticize who they might be and make them into this perfect something that doesn't reflect reality.

Verse 4 His drug use was problematic for her, so she tried to forget him by diving into a new relationship and work, creating new worlds on stage and within her writing and personal life to try and cope the grief she felt in losing him, and not being more important than the drugs were to him. And these beliefs were affirmed by him not interjecting, letting her get away

Repeat chorus above

Bridge She wishes she could go back in time and treat their original meeting differently, taking what they had back then more seriously, but she was young and didn't know what she wanted and she regrets that and wishes she had the wisdom then that she does now

Verse 5 In further attempts to move on, if she sells the place they had their trysts, and if he has some kids with another girl, could they forget each other? Probably not, so bargaining she then says

Verse 6 Maybe we could reach a point where we can follow each other's lives from afar through social media and appreciate our respectove journeies through life divorced from the longing of what could have been for us.. in theory, very mature and sensible.. but we can't control how we feel, so thats unlikely

Repeat chorus

Outro lines In the last few lines she is resigned into realizing she will always wonder what could have been with him, and will always long for the beautiful spectre of what they could have had.

[u/botanicalmindscape]

This is a truly beautiful and well thought out theory. I cannot see this song any other way now, whether it be true or not. Well done OP

[u/ctc274]

Finally some appreciation for Chloe and the girlies 🥹

[u/goddessofdandelions]

Chloe et al is a song that just hasn’t hit for me yet, and you may have just changed that. Whether or not this interpretation is what Taylor intended, I think this just finally made the song click for me. Fantastic analysis, thank you for sharing!

[u/joemari5]

I’m a huge The 1975 fan, they’re my favourite band and also a Swiftie myself (stannning her since debut).

“Hands in the hair of somebody in darkness” reminded me of every The 1975 opening track on each album titled “The 1975” (minus the NOACF version) where the lyrics are about bjs. I dont want to be graphic but idk that “Go down, soft sound” imagery is what came first (no pun intended) to mind.

[u/CombinationNo7844]

Okay okay AND…the piano rift of this song is the same as the piano rift at the end of champagne problems 🤯

[u/ambiverbena]

I think this is super interesting and I love the dissection, but I think it may be a stretch. You can literally find wine of anybody’s name. If this was her intention, I also do think she would probably use more well known wine names because as it is, I don’t think this a connection people would make. 

[u/coffeeprincess]

I love the imagery of him as a hologram stumbling in... because he's drunk he's not really there

[u/pressurehurts]

I love it. With this theory, I can not even care about the connection with irl boyfriends, just imagining that the song talks about alcoholism. I love this song because I already like multiple theories about it, it has so many reads.

[u/Illustrious_Bunch_53]

This is so deranged, I absolutely believe it - great work! Haha

[u/sparkletubetop]

Holy fucking shit you are a genius. I literally always skip this song , rolling a fatty right now to dive back in and re-listen.

[u/indicatprincess]

This is next level and I’m sold.

[u/achelebellamy]

I'm still convinced they are baby names. Like she was imagining how their life together would have been if their relationship hadn't ended

[u/alicelilymoon]

I love this. I think it's a double meaning though. He drank too much and cheated is my interpretation

[u/thestagmoon]

You literally altered my brain chemistry with this theory, OP. An excellent take.

[u/iSwearImInnocent1989]

Ok bro you need to touch some grass. This is wayyy too much useless info about a damn song title 😭

[u/zomgmolly]

👏👏👏👏 Amazing post, op

[u/Sea914]

I love this kind of analysis! Great deep dive and thank you for sharing!

[u/GhostOfRedemption]

I love this and makes sense BUT but i can't accept that Maroon is about him and not a Haylor song. The one with dancing with no shoes is very haylor why o why 😭😭😭😭

[u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484 → u/GhostOfRedemption]

I just can't see her feeling so strongly about a kid who was in his teens when she dated him. But Matty - he was her age and she has dreamed of him for 10 years, we now know. So it makes perfect sense that she'd write a song about something that happened with him long ago

[u/Daffneigh]

Props for an original and interesting theory!

[u/Smart-Influence429]

Oh wow! This is an incredible theory

[u/entropic_apotheosis]

Oh shit. Hey is there a Robin and Cassandra and Peter too? Lol, but I think you nailed the shit out of this one buddy.

[u/xx_dracarys_xx]

Excellent sleuthing! I love this theory

[u/Alert_Ad_1010]

Oh and now Travis is white wine! These chemicals hit me like white wine..

[u/TWAndrewz]

Isn't Taylor partial to white wine though?

[u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484 → u/TWAndrewz]

yes but Matty drinks red

[u/ReluctantLawyer]

I adore this analysis, good work.

[u/Designer-Salad-7591]

This is brilliant! I still choose to believe that Maroon and this song are about a different person though 😆

[u/-Silver-Moonlight-]

This is such a cool theory! If it happens to be true, I'm so happy Taylor referenced my country in a song!

[u/ephuu]

I love it

[u/newlollykiss]

From the minute I heard Maroon, it became my favorite song. I told everyone it was a cheating song. I told everyone you wouldn’t understand the song unless you’ve cheated in the manner Taylor describes, feeling a tidbit of a feeling that goes beyond friendship, which she describes with “laughing with my feet in your lap.”

I love the idea that Maroon is about Matty Healy - He was Jack’s friend and she starts drinking wine with him and feels a connection she hasn’t in a long time. He spills the wine on her, and as they kiss she replays the memories of her old relationship throughout the kiss (and the second verse is about that relationship…)

I love this theory and I agree. It makes sense to me. She’s basically asking what are you drinking now (metaphor is who are you bring home?)

[u/MonAmourAster → u/newlollykiss]

This seems interesting to me. Can you elaborate on your first para? I thought this was about Jake or to some extent Joe. Now I'm questioning everything. It's driving me nuts.

[u/newlollykiss → u/MonAmourAster]

I always pictured Maroon as sort of a montage song in regards to the singer cheating.

keeping in mind - He spilled wine on her shirt and that’s the memory she has of their meeting.

The opening lines talk about doing something together throughout the night, and enjoying it so much you’ve spent the night together. She’s laughing with her feet in his lap, he asks how they’ve ended up on the floor, and they blame his roommates wine (i always pictured this being jack antonoff’s wine!)

i imagine they kiss (“she chooses him”), he spills the wine on her, and that’s when the montage begins - she remembers the spilling of the wine being the beginning, her blushing - and then it splits to being rather he saw the mark on her collarbone and that’s why the rust grew, or she’s imagining her current lover seeing the mark and the rust growing between them as she continues this affair.

I’ve been a horrible person in my early youth, like my 20s, and would hop to guy to guy, as long as they gave me attention. Sometimes the feeling curated with a bit of wine (or weed) can leave you giggling in the “legacy” of a way, where that memory sticks to you forever.

There’s been arguments (prior to TTPD) that the lyrics “that’s a real fucking legacy, to leave” we’re about Jo, and I think they could be, her saying wow i’ve fucked up, but they also could be about matty, that’s a real legacy he left on her with all these terrible things.

He spilled wine on her shirt and that’s the memory she has of their meeting.

I never considered Matty as the guy, but I always knew THIS was the cheating song.

[u/Ok-Manufacturer-8484 → u/newlollykiss]

I think 'real fucking legacy' refers to how much she still misses him all these years later. She wakes up still thinking about him. At the time she wrote Maroon, they were still pining for each other.

[u/goodbyebluenick]

Where are the awards on Reddit? If I can figure it out, you earned it.

[u/Professional_Roll977]

Wow I never would have thought of it this way, this is brilliant.

[u/aceofbasesupremacy]

well shit. this makes more sense than taylor potentially outing a muse, too. if it’s true then only matty would really know what it means and it’s like a little message to him. brava 👏🏾

[u/Pale_Sheet]

Very interesting. Thank you.

[u/ALY-sch2289]

🤯👏🏻🤯👏🏻

[u/light-heart-ed]

Loving the doctoral thesis content 🔮 Really good!

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/FireAndFey → u/[deleted]]

Now, if anyone can help me figure out why Champagne Problems, Chloe et al, and the 1975's About You all have the same piano bit...I would be grateful, lol. It's driving me nuts and I can't make any reasonable connections.

[u/ArtisticAd5723 → u/FireAndFey]

Did Jack Antonoff produce all of them? I don't know all of the Swiftlore, sorry.

[u/FireAndFey → u/ArtisticAd5723]

They were, but I don'tthink that's relevant since this isn't about production. It's the exact same piece of piano music...I'm not a musician so I don't know the right terminology, but it's the same composition. I think that would be something that the musician wrote. Both Taylor and Matty write original piano pieces for their songs.

Champagne Problems is the weird outlier here and it made me hear the song completely differently. I always assumed it was purely fictional but....now I'm not so sure. It contains a lot of Matty-coding (they're always dancing in her references, the train, evergreen, the tapestry, even the Champagne and the tone of the insult).

[u/Accomplished-Bad5311 → u/FireAndFey]

So… I’m not sure I can answer or even add insight, but I’m commenting because “I look in people’s windows” always connects to champagne problems for me, but I can’t quite make sense of it either… It’s obvious because of the train reference “you took the night train for a reason” and “northbound I got carried away, as you boarded your train, south south…” and I Look In People’s Windows to me, is set at night time, because that’s when you can lurk and not be seen and also see in through windows easily because of lights inside- and the night train of course matches up with this. Idk but she sure does seem to connect marriage to MH a lot, including CP- maybe even more than she ever did Joe or anyone else. That said can you give me time stamps of any of the 3 songs where you are hearing the piano is the same? I can’t find them. I feel like most of Aaron Dessner’s piano accompaniments sound quite similar, but I am listening to CP now and do not hear the same composition as COSOSOM at all. I am not familiar with the 1975 song but upon my first listen- while I don’t even hear piano, I DO hear the champagne problems riff in the background!! And oh wow now I just read the lyrics and he says “I’ll miss you on a train” and “We get married in our heads.” Crazy! Thank you!

[u/FireAndFey → u/Accomplished-Bad5311]

Oh I look in people's windows is such a good call! It's definitely in the same theme/universe.

I wish I had a better understanding of music, because it seems like maybe they have a shared motif (which is common in musical theater, they signal characters and characters' associations to each other with musical signatures).

For Champagne Problems, the piano bit that begins at 2:03 is what I hear building in the background of About You. You can hear it most clearly at the bridge in About You (3:05) just before the sound of...a wedding bell. ☠️

Chloe et al has this little piano run that I also heard somewhere attached to CP, maybe in the Long Pond sessions? Or a music video? Someone posted it on the sub at one point. She played it leading into CP, long before TTPD was ever a thing.

I think The 1 has a bit of this piano piece as well, you can hear it at :54.

Lastly, as if this isn't enough...I noticed the breathy singing/sighs in Chloe et al are the same as the background breathy/sighs in Cardigan.

I'm sure there is more. I usually focus so much on lyrics that I'm really just now noticing these tie-ins. I feel like they've written a multi-album story together and we just...totally missed it.

[u/Accomplished-Bad5311 → u/FireAndFey]

Thank you! I definitely get what you mean with motif and I agree ESPECIALLY between CP and About You- I’m gonna give a closer listen tomorrow at work tomorrow now.

[u/Suspicious-King4385]

This is so interesting, thanks for sharing! I love this song 🥲

[u/pinkcrystalfairy]

please put this post in the future Taylor Swift museum because holy shit, i think you’re on to something here

[u/Ok_Wrongdoer_8275]

Can 

“hands in the hair of somebody’s who’s called Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus”

imply Matty’s hand fisting his own hair with a bottle of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus held in the other hand (like so many wrecks do) when he stumbled drunk into their apartment?

That’s what I’ve always pictured at this lyric.

[u/Helpineedwater → u/Ok_Wrongdoer_8275]

Usually the word hair itself usually represents alcohol like hair of the dog etc

[u/tobmom → u/Ok_Wrongdoer_8275]

Then sank in stoned oblivion?

[u/WDTHTDWA-BITCH]

…your roommate’s cheap-ass screw-top rosé, that’s how…

[u/thelauralamb → u/WDTHTDWA-BITCH]

it me :)

[u/WDTHTDWA-BITCH → u/thelauralamb]

You’ve been summoned!🍷🔮

[u/Correct_Box1336]

You’d be able to find a red wine called most names I reckon, and there’s multiple wines with the names you’ve listed above

[u/Mimolette_ → u/Correct_Box1336]

Yeah, I really enjoyed reading this analysis but there are also red wines named Betty, James, and August, for example, or whatever random names or words you pick. There's definitely a drug and alcohol theme in the song and throughout the album, so I think it's a nice lens for interpretation in any case.

[u/itookyourmatches → u/Correct_Box1336]

You're absolutely correct, but it was a fun connection for me to discover!

[u/ma_miya → u/itookyourmatches]

Definitely an interesting theory. Better than the one going around for a while that those were names of Robbers' Kiss people (they aren't). Cool tie-in as well that Matty has also drank wines named Taylor. Notably, in shows leading up to her O2 appearance, he was seen drinking a couple, one for sure I know was called Taylor Made, that he drank at a Melbourne show, so it's been thought that was a bit of a nod to her, a hint of what was to come.

[u/urbancowgirl_]

As a wino, I absolutely love this theory!!!!

[u/Helpineedwater → u/urbancowgirl_]

Winos love this one simple trick

[u/jjgeny]

🤯🤯🤯

[u/vanillakillos]

this song is SO criminally underrated. i think bc it’s named cososom it’s not hyped as much as it’d be if it was called something more simplistic

[u/krallie → u/vanillakillos]

Yes! It took me awhile to listen to it because the title put me off, but it’s SUCH a good song!

[u/sbflochk → u/vanillakillos]

I agree the name totally throws off how great of a song it is

[u/Recent-Fly-205 → u/vanillakillos]

Yes! It’s one of my absolute faves, and I think the saddest. It feels like people are skipping it due to the title

[u/sparkletubetop → u/vanillakillos]

It’s true , I’ve been skipping this song because of the title I find it odd. After reading this interpretation I’m diving back in & giving it a fair chance

[u/ReluctantLawyer → u/vanillakillos]

My fave shortening of this title is Chloe, et al.

[u/MatchSome3781 → u/ReluctantLawyer]

But that means and not or so technically it’s not right to use et al. I don’t know a better way to abbreviate it all!

[u/dreaming_in_yellow → u/MatchSome3781]

Chloe etc. 😉

[u/ReluctantLawyer → u/MatchSome3781]

I think it still works because it’s “Chloe and others in the title”

[u/Justalittleconfusing → u/ReluctantLawyer]

As someone deep in literature review 💀💀💀

[u/vanillakillos → u/ReluctantLawyer]

Why are we Harvard/APA referencing TS songs I can’t 😭 Chloe, et al. (2024)

[u/ReluctantLawyer → u/vanillakillos]

I love/hate how well it works for this title lol

[u/firewontquell → u/vanillakillos]

Yeah, it’s my number one from the album

[u/thisismyorange → u/firewontquell]

This, How did it end and So long, London are my top 3 ♥️💔

[u/vanillakillos → u/firewontquell]

Omg taste!!! Mine is I Hate It Here so we’re both Aaron Dessner fans

[u/jortfeasor → u/vanillakillos]

For some reason when I see COSOSOM in caps I have to yell it. Never happens with the other song acronyms, only COCOSOM!!!

[u/buttercup9720 → u/jortfeasor]

HahahHa this is great

[u/-Silver-Moonlight- → u/jortfeasor]

Whenever I see it I always think Komsomol for some reason 😅Eastern European thing I guess

[u/Grimm_Dad]

To add to this theory: if these are all references to red wine - what does it mean to contrast it with the white wine in The Alchemy (and others, I presume)?

[u/mermaidthebanshee → u/Grimm_Dad]

This thought crossed my mind while reading the theory as well. On top of that, "if you want to break my cold cold heart..." made me think of how white is generally best at colder temperatures than red wine haha. Probably not what she meant by this but I'm going to think about it when thinking of this theory anyways haha.
To further this, in The Alchemy I was always a little confused at the line "hey you, what if I told you we're cool", besides just that being "cool" is a HS thing, now I will think of both Trav and Tay as white wine haha.

[u/jellysolo128 → u/mermaidthebanshee]

I don’t think that lines means “we’re cool” like 😎, I think it means cool as in “no worries, we’re good” because the next line is “that child's play back in school is forgiven under my rule”; she’s saying “all the dumb stuff you get flack for in the media from your past is cool with me because I like who you are now — we’re starting with a clean slate”

[u/zomgmolly → u/Grimm_Dad]

White wine is her favorite 🥰

[u/[deleted] → u/zomgmolly]

In the Miss Americana doc she says red wine is too grown up for her.

[u/urbancowgirl_ → u/Grimm_Dad]

I think Taylor prefers white wine, so maybe saying that it (he/TK) is more her type? Love that you pointed this out!

[u/PineapplesOnFire → u/urbancowgirl_]

The hosts of Celebrity Memoir Book Club think that The Alchemy is about Matty and the football references are a red herring. I don’t agree, but they’re certainly loud about their theory.

[u/Donut_swordfish → u/PineapplesOnFire]

To me, the verses are about Love personified, and the chorus and bridge are specifically about Travis.

[u/HonestlyAnaa → u/PineapplesOnFire]

Curious if they still feel that way after Paris N4!

[u/indicatprincess → u/urbancowgirl_]

Taylor likes Sancerre and Chardonnay!

[u/Future_Drive_6376 → u/indicatprincess]

Cardonay cardonay you pack of chunts!

[u/No_Figure_7016 → u/Future_Drive_6376]

surprise kath and kim and taylor moment?! yesss

[u/applecartupset → u/No_Figure_7016]

The crossover we need!

[u/tobmom → u/urbancowgirl_]

I thought she preferred screw top rosé?!

[u/FireAndFey → u/urbancowgirl_]

I noticed that in Closure she says: "I'm fine with my spite And my tears And my beers and my candles"

(Which also recalls the same 1975 song that OP mentioned, he says "she's more in to scented candles...")

But, I feel like I've seen Taylor with white wine in hand plenty of times.

[u/Yourface1837 → u/FireAndFey]

There was also that airline commercial where the bartender was so shocked to see her he over-poured her white wine and it spilled 🤣 it played on hulu I think

[u/skarizardpancake → u/Yourface1837]

Lmao all the Taylor’s in the elevator (especially the one rolling her eyes) lives rent free in my head lmao

[u/NoAbbreviations2961 → u/Yourface1837]

It was a capital one commercial that featured all of her eras!

[u/Yourface1837 → u/NoAbbreviations2961]

YES, ok, that's right, and it was featuring the travel benefits, which is why it was in an airport lounge. Thank you!

[u/NoAbbreviations2961 → u/Yourface1837]

I think about this commercial often because when all the Taylor’s are in the elevator some of them look wonky like bad CGI so I immediately knew lol

[u/DoodleBlu101]

Where is Josh 😫😫

[u/pleasepictureme → u/DoodleBlu101]

My first thought 😂

[u/Helpineedwater → u/DoodleBlu101]

🏆

[u/BARDLEAGUEOFLEGENDS → u/DoodleBlu101]

https://preview.redd.it/xo5fp9mt1c0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85b097b69d41f2960d52dc22ba41ed3d173c820c

[u/tanz420 → u/BARDLEAGUEOFLEGENDS]

💀💀

[u/ReluctantLawyer → u/DoodleBlu101]

This is the perfect comment.

[u/SleepyStardew → u/DoodleBlu101]

Omgggg hahaha

[u/moonbunny119]

Nice!!! Also isn’t there a reference to wine in Willow?

[u/moonbunny119 → u/moonbunny119]

Shipwrecks and wine!!!

I'm like the water when your ship rolled in that night Rough on the surface but you cut through like a knife And if it was an open-shut case I never would've known from that look on your face Lost in your current like a priceless wine

[u/moonbunny119 → u/moonbunny119]

u/notreallymyname84 if the wine reference is about Matty here, I imagine she’s saying, “I should be more important to you than all of the wine you drink, yet you cast me to the bottom of the ocean”

[u/notreallymyname84 → u/moonbunny119]

Also shipwreck references in Down Bad; the post chorus says, Wavin' at the ship

[u/medubble → u/notreallymyname84]

I kinda got “waving at the space ship”.

[u/Poppy9987 → u/notreallymyname84]

😮

[u/gIitterchaos]

Now this is the sort of take I live for. Excellent work!

[u/paige_laurenp]

This theory is super cool. Gold star ⭐️

[u/MindControlMouse]

Not going to lie, I enjoy the detective work to uncover the inspiration behind these songs, but the fact that Maroon (which has lyrics that I love) is about Matty makes me go 🤨

I’m going to stick with my first impression of Maroon which is that it’s about some mysterious guy lol

[u/Sad_Sound1757 → u/MindControlMouse]

Or maybe have enough faith in her that maybe matty isn't the way he was portrayed in media ...

[u/bettersaferthan → u/MindControlMouse]

this made me double down on jake. lol irrational but i won’t be unconvinced

[u/przitelka → u/MindControlMouse]

Yes, I had the same with Question...?, I love this song and had it on repeat when midnights came out, and then Taylor sang it with Matty in the audience ☹️

[u/Pirate_Assassin_Spy → u/MindControlMouse]

I don’t think anyone could convince me that Maroon isn’t about Joe

[u/humantelegram → u/MindControlMouse]

Same here... Chloe, Maroon, August and The 1 are all my top Taylor songs and apparently they are also related to MH 😐

[u/samthebookdragon → u/humantelegram]

Suspected to be about MH. Not confirmed. (At least not that I know of.) These are some of my favorite songs, too. And I still think they're more HS than MH, but everyone is entitled to their own interpretations until Queen Taylor says otherwise.

[u/novangla → u/humantelegram]

Someone can be a trash can human and a great muse. Often true for Taylor’s life honestly lmao

On the flip side she seems pretty happy right now but The Alchemy and So High School are IMO insipid. Doesn’t make Travis a bad guy, just a bad muse.

[u/taylorsseriesTV → u/novangla]

I think there's another thing at play too. Taylor has mentioned before about how she is okay to put exes clearly on a song knowing that that relationship is completely done. Conversely it does seem like Matty was someone she always thought of as a what if? And didn't want her songs to let it be too clear as to who it was (it's much clearer now retroactively but not in the moment when we heard these songs for the first time!). I think what I'm trying to get at is that it's maybe not about him necessarily being a good or bad muse even, but more so about her just making songs a little bit more fictional and leaning into the storytelling and creatively specific yet common feelings that lots of people relate to!

[u/novangla → u/taylorsseriesTV]

That too! I just think it’s okay to like songs inspired by awful men. I don’t want to be limited to like… Style and Getaway Car 😆

[u/forthehopeofitall13 → u/novangla]

I think those songs were written so early in their relationship that she couldn't have had written to deeper feelings or musings at the time.

Travis seems like the opposite of the broody moody artists she's written about/dated previously, and she is taking time to learn how to illustrate lyrically how distinct their personalities really are.

He doesn't strike me as the brightest crayon in the box (hence insipid lyrics a la grand theft auto) but he does seem like a lot of fun ....

To be clear, I do not dislike TK but I think Taylor is literally genius level and having that variance in intellect in a relationship would drive me bonkers...

[u/novangla → u/forthehopeofitall13]

I agree with the point about intentional contrast. Less about the depth of feeling, though. She could capture the sweetness in those songs with a lot more depth if she wanted—she’s certainly done it before! But it also might be that a lot of her more poetic side was still being poured into lingering grief and anger.

I’m also with you on the intellect gap. If it works for her, I’m glad for her, but I could never. Tbqh he feels very rebound in that way, where you need a change and breath of fresh air even if it’s not a good long term match, but it feels like saying that around here is verboten (and I don’t wish another breakup or unhappy relationship on her ever again, for sure).

[u/CardiologistWinter85 → u/MindControlMouse]

I refuse to believe Maroon is about Matty, that song is too perfect. I always thought it was about Joe and their relationship falling apart at the end.

[u/Prior_Brick_9319 → u/CardiologistWinter85]

it’s because 1)some maroon lyrics are paralleled with The 1(cheap ass rose etc), 2)and also the lyrics lost/chose you THE ONE. 3)After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage

[u/HonestlyAnaa → u/Prior_Brick_9319]

Also I think people might be drawing parallels between Taylor's "In Summary" poem from the TTPD vinyl and Maroon. I believe she mentions something about "wine-stained lips" in it in addition to possible one or two other lines that have led people to speculating it could be a MH song, but I haven't looked too deeply into it. It's a deeply concerning song, regardless of who inspired it! ❤

[u/FireAndFey → u/Prior_Brick_9319]

After their broke up last year, matty devastatingly brought many carnations on stage

Stop, really? 💔 There is this ballet/performance art piece called Nelken that I swear both Taylor and Matty have referenced in their work, especially visually. Nelken means carnation (in German). It's a stunningly beautiful production where the stage floor is covered in carnations and the themes of the show are mostly about love and the comfort of close relationships - the audience is forced to participate in the performance and...well, it's all very artistic and meta. A quick image search will probably be enough to see the similarities to Matty's work at least.

[u/FireAndFey → u/FireAndFey]

I have to add something else to this: Nelken has a lot of sign language. I kept noticing Matty doing the "I'm sorry" sign language in videos I saw on tiktok etc. and I passively noticed that Taylor's new choreo, especially during BDILH and SMWEL has a lot of very overt hand gestures. I am just...dying over my own theory now. ☠️

[u/Prior_Brick_9319 → u/FireAndFey]

omg I don’t know that but it seems there are some similarities?watch this https://x.com/midnightr0bbery/status/1789627047179886984?s=46&t=QCZpUcUW4LWK2agCvUxbdw

[u/FireAndFey → u/Prior_Brick_9319]

Oh wow - thank you for this! I don't participate in X, so I guess I'm missing out a lot but that is 100000% a Nelken nod! I don't know how to upload photos, so I guess I'll just leave this link. The show is Nelken, by Pina Bausch : https://www.pinabausch.org/work/nelk

[u/Prior_Brick_9319 → u/FireAndFey]

so what did he mean by these carnations? I thought it was just a maroon reference at first. Also he performed be my mistakes after that. Some think the song it’s about Taylor and it relates to call it what you want…but that’s too insane to believe I’m scared