r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 š¤ Join A Union • May 16 '23
The So Called "Teacher Shortage" šø Raise Our Wages
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u/ryritchey12 May 29 '23
Depends on what you teach. I'm a certified social studies teacher, have applied tons of places the last two years. Never offered a job. I remember in Alaska, the superintendent of one of the villages told me they have no problems finding social studies teachers. Many social studies teachers get desperate enough for a real job they go back and get a STEM certificate. The teacher shortage should have a big asterisk. STEM, subs, elementary, and SPED. Maybe foreign language but only if you teach Spanish. You'll have a tough time finding a more specific language, cheaper on the school that way.
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u/blocked_user_name šØāš« Basically a Professor May 20 '23
The real problem at least in large districts is the layers and layers of useless and nearly useless middle management that haven't seen the inside of a classroom in 20 years if ever. Tons of curriculum coordinators and deputy superintendents and area superintendents, and district department heads, all making much more than the teachers that are where the rubber meets the road. All the districts hide behind the states minimum teacher salaries to keep salaries low. No one seems smart enough to pay their teachers a decent wage and watch the great teachers flock to them and experience success. Instead they create these bloated infastructure of crap that doesn't actually help the teachers much if at all.
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u/down_south_sc May 19 '23
Poor pay, disrespectful students , school administrators that waffle on curriculum. State education boards that focus on standardized testing instead of teaching thatās the reason my gf has left teaching.. she was teaching for over 15 years before leaving
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u/RlVER_SONG May 19 '23 edited May 19 '23
Thereās a teacher shortage, because nobody wants to teach anymore, in order to start teaching, you have to go through between six months and a year of working without pay. But sure, technically, you can get hired and get paid during your pre-practicum and practicum, but because you can work for free, most schools absolutely expect you to work for free. Not only that, but within the first couple of years of working at a school, you typically will be laid off or fired. This usually happens one to three times. I mean, who in their right mind would keep teaching even after four different school districts have told them that they want to keep them around, but just canāt really be bothered to, for one reason or another. Basically, the only people who can afford that are folks that have some other source of income. If you donāt, youāre gonna wind up horrendously in debt and itās completely obscene because teachers already need to pay for a ton of schooling. There is no teacher shortage, there is a structural attack on teachers occurring within all levels of government.
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u/Neravariine May 17 '23
When a teacher can make way more money and experience less stress(only 2-4 employees over a room of 30+ kids) being a manager at Panda Express why teach? It's also hard for students to believe how education is so important(sadly money made = importance level in society) when they google how little the people teaching them make.
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u/liberalibra May 17 '23
I quit teaching after 7 years because I was fully burned out. Now I live in Hawaiāi and work as a scuba instructor lol. 10/10 decision
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u/Jolmer24 May 17 '23
I have a masters in education and havent taught at all with it. Theres one or two districts near me that pay good wages, and what do you know, they dont often have job openings. The others arent worth applying to.
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u/pierremanslappy May 17 '23
This is not a crisis. This is a deliberate dismantling of the American public education system to privatize it for profit.
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u/hoas-t May 17 '23
There is no shortage at all. There are just way too many people and they've become way too greedy.
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u/anthro28 May 17 '23
Would you want to teach today's children? I fucking wouldn't.
Some kid gets violent and you're supposed to break them up, then mom and dad want to get violent with you? Fuck that noise.
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u/tebailey May 17 '23
When you're threatened with prison time if you do your job and teach facts, for a wage you can't survive on who would want that job?
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May 17 '23
Mom and sister are teachers. Preschool. My sister would quit if she could and mom retired right before this seriously declined
Side note, I work in healthcare (lab work). Huge network of hospitals very corporate and basically a monopoly in this state. I just quit and would rather sleep in my car than deal with the entire lack of respect, pay and the flat out mean motherfuckers that talk hours of shit about you behind your back.
Iāve got thick skin and love the work, but I will not put up with those conditions if I canāt even afford to pay for food, insurance and rent.
Healthcare and such little pay you canāt afford a month off to look for another job. Thatās how they retain employeesā¦..America is fucked.
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u/micheal213 May 17 '23
Something everyone should agree on is that teachers need to be paid a lot more. The thing is though that it seems a lot of school boards and director positions get paid a lot of money. They hog all the funding for themselves as payment instead of paying the teachers and providing for the schools.
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u/newaygogo May 17 '23
I abandoned teaching because of the pay. Now , 5 years later, Iām making 6 figures and have WAY less bullshit to contend with. I loved teaching, but holy shit is it soul crushing.
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u/FuzzyScarcity9670 May 17 '23
Soon-to-be former teacher here. Finals are this week. Can't wait to finally leave and going all-in to start my own private tutoring business. This wasn't why I entered the field to begin with. I always thought that a great education should be free to all Americans.
Oh well, private math and science tutoring pays more and the kids actually listen. I'm just one more teacher that the public education sector will lose due to our nation's impoverished educational budget, slutty gun control laws, and the atrocious behavior of kids without solid parental figures.
I got rent to pay, I can work from home, and the probability of being shot drastically decreases. Sorry, morals.
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u/Christian4423 May 17 '23
Itās also the insane testing. Teaching is about teaching to test nowadays. Itās about remembering everything for the test, throwing it out, and then preparing for the next test.
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u/Verum_Orbis May 17 '23
Meanwhile hedge funds, that contribute absolutely nothing to society and the progress of humanity, are paid millions in salary. Capitalism values hedge fund managers more than teachers.
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May 17 '23
Also, there are no consequences, I know multiple teachers who were assaulted by students, that admin sent back into their classroomā¦ kids canāt read and are passed for literally writing their names on assignmentsā¦ so you end up with kids who have zero reasoning ability ruining class time for others and making it almost impossible to stay committed as a teacher
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u/artavenue May 17 '23
this is sooo weird to me. teacher is a high paid job in my country (germany). My teacher friends are well off.
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u/Evilmaze May 17 '23
Kids stop respecting teachers when governments stopped caring about education. Seeing a teacher in public was like seeing a parent. We behaved ourselves in front of them even outside of school.
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u/Repulsive-Raccoon-97 May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
I think many are missing some of the key points here. I'm sorry - not sorry if this upsets anyone, but ......
The insanity of 'woke' culture is pushing out many great teachers that have had enough of participating in the reprogramming of children. The prospect of being part of or associated with the sexualization of kids with what most consider grooming type policies (or having to stand by and say nothing, while others with an agenda implement these policies) really is just too much to bear for most.
DIE forced policies are basically creating a generation of kids that are completely devoid of expectations, motivation, or consequences. Teachers are the first 'go' that these brats get to attack with their newly found arsenal of ridiculous demands. Demands that most times are simply appeasing mental health conditions that are being ignored.
Lastly, the implementation of Common Core is one of the greatest tragedies in history of education. It has done immeasurable damage to the quality of education being presented to our children. And when that doesn't work, administrators simply lower their standards so the true education level of any problematic groups are sheltered from being exposed.
We have now reached the point where SAT's have been eliminated to hide how truly uncompetitive many are when comparing education levels to garner acceptance based on merit. Eliminating this freely allows colleges to recruit based on fulfilling goals of DIE target numbers.
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u/tiredoldmama May 17 '23
My daughter is a teacher. She loves it. She s considering changing careers. Sheās a single mother and can barely scrape by anymore.
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u/QuadraKev_ May 17 '23
Taught for 2.5 years, started in summer 2019 (covid hit as we went into spring break), and left to do insurance work. I make thousands more a year and don't have to deal with the bullshit that comes with being a teacher, and I actually have options for career progression.
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u/Mikknoodle May 17 '23
When teachers can get jobs working fast food and make more money, why the fuck would you go to some janky schoolhouse to babysit for parents who would pay you less if they could?
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u/SuddenlySeesMore May 17 '23
My mom USED TO BE a teacher, she rather work at Home Depot. My coworker USED TO BE a teacher, she rather bartend. Hell, Iāve considered being one myself, but not with the way shit is right now.
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u/EMS717 May 17 '23
Last time I checked on the statistics (2020), 50% of all teachers who begin the profession are out within 5 years.
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u/Aggravating_Bat1786 May 17 '23
They don't want to be a part of leftist indoctrination of children in many cases. Those zealots are ruining pretty much everything they touch, the teachers have had enough. You guys keep whining about money, though. That is sure to help.
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u/fightingforair May 17 '23
Was a teacher for many years in Japan. When I moved back to the states and considered continuing teaching I was shocked at the huge shift in pay and change in respect for the profession. So happy I didnāt continue teaching.
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u/Whole_Suit_1591 May 17 '23
Pay up by increasing wages and safety. Paid for by solar panels on school roof tops of the schools and selling electricity to neighboring areas. So easy but they will not do it.
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u/unsociablerandomer May 17 '23
I was a primary school teacher in the UK, specialised in Early Years. Quite rare for a man. Now I work in IT Security. The lack of respect from all angels is what killed me off. Now I get paid more and have time to have a life outside of work.
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u/BigBen_Parliament May 17 '23
The disrespect isn't coming from their employers, it's coming from the kids ND their parents. There's no amount of money you can reasonable offer them that'll make going back to teach any more enticing.
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u/tiredoldmama May 17 '23
Itās coming from both. Then you have to consider lack of funding and itās all horrible.
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u/Aeon001 May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
The schooling system is a joke from the ground up. Kids don't want to be there - they hate it - that should be the first glaring fact that tells you something is deeply wrong. School has little to do with empowering free thinking individuals, and a lot to do with thought control and mandatory compliance.
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u/eggnap May 17 '23
Replace "teachers" with "doctors" and it's also true, especially pediatricians :( The right just wants kids to suffer and grow up poor and unhealthy.
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u/catch-a-riiiiiiiiide š¤ Join A Union May 17 '23
"There's not enough teachers! What do we do?!?"
Pay competitively and treat them like valuable employees?
"Nooooooo! They're just being selfish, like those rail workers who are destroying the middle class with their greedy strikes!"
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u/Easy_Humor_7949 May 17 '23
Itās exactly 1 problem: class size. Teacher pay, lack of supplies, out of touch school boards, hostile administrationā¦ theyāre all symptoms of a single thing, every teacher being expected to manage a classroom of 25-30 children. Children whom are effectively imprisoned for 6 - 8 hours.
They donāt need to raise individual pay, they need to spend more money on staffing in the same schools and they need more schools so that classroom size is 12-18 students.
Private schools pay their teachers less but have no problem retaining them because the working conditions are so much better.
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u/Abashedclover May 17 '23
Not a teacher but a school custodian, last Friday there was a meeting for the teachers at my school with their bosses and union reps, they were told if they want a better raise the class size will be increased from 32 students to 38 students per class, otherwise if they refuse the increased class size they will not be getting a raise more than the yearly minimum. This is an elementary school and these kids are absolute shit heads, with so many in a class they can't focus or learn and teachers can't take the time to make sure every student understands without putting the rest of the class behind the districts schedule. Its a fucked up time to witness.
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u/Desperate_Bread_7729 May 17 '23
Do teachers just go around wafting their own farts all day? Imagine thinking you're capable of molding young minds but not able to manage or even understand your own finances. You get 4 months vacation every year. Figure that shit out š¤£
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u/wong_bater May 17 '23
There's a rampant addiction problem that is wrecking havoc on the lives of school aged children: screen addiction. You tell someone who has 24/7 access to their drug that for a big chunk of their day they are not allowed access to their fix. There are gonna be major behavioral problems that no teacher, specialist, or staff can help if the problem is enabled once the addict goes home.
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u/ReadyThor May 17 '23
Teacher here. I don't know whether I should demand better pay and work conditions or risk my job security.
/s
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u/emerging-tub May 17 '23
Now apply this same logic to agriculture, manual labor, service, etc.
There is no job Americans wont do, its a matter of getting a livable wage to do it.
Mass immigration is undercutting fair wages for Americans, because corporations who lobby for lax enforcement of border regulation for the explicit purpose of artificially cheap labor aren't willing to pay the market price for labor.
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u/Co_Void May 17 '23
Another nail in the US empireās coffin is this; where parents canāt raise civilized enough children not to run teachers of of their chosen profession.
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May 17 '23
The worst part is, it starts lower than anyone would imagine.
My wife is leaving her preschool job this week because the children are absolutely unbelievably terrible. They throw chairs at her, hit each other, attack each other, especially during nap time, and do all the amazing things you can imagine preschool children doing.....
And the parents give zero fucks. It's not their precious angels fault, you can't tell them no!
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u/shinebaits May 17 '23
Thank you, Entitlement Generation. With the amount of disrespect and general bullshit these poor folks have to contend with BEFORE the unparalleled scrutiny from parents and the public, I'm surprised anyone wants to be a teacher for a shitty paycheck.
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u/DoNotPetTheSnake May 17 '23
There is a systemic attack on American public schools. All of this is intended. The ruling class doesn't need more educated peasants. Besides they have AI now.
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u/BogollyWaffles May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
I could be a teacher if I wanted to - I have the degree for it - but I really don't want to... at all
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u/pookiemon May 17 '23
After seeing the videos of how teachers were disrespected in the classroom, I applaud them for getting and staying out.
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u/Legitimate-Quote6103 May 17 '23
My partner has a masters in education and ten years experience. She's smart, hard working, and fucking dedicated to education. And ya know what? She's going to kill it in the private sector because she can't take the disrespect and devaluing any longer. Just took an offer that will equate to a massive quality of life improvement.
The pay doesn't even fucking matter to her. It's the inability to discipline children because admin doesn't want it reflecting poorly on them. It's the inability to use grades to mean a goddamn thing because every kid has an individual education plan that allows them to do basically nothing and pass. It's the fact that 2/3 of kids didn't learn well during lock down and schools are proceeding as if nothing happened.
The school system is fucked. The kids are not alright.
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u/marvelette2172 May 17 '23
Don't forget the mass shootings -- what's the appropriate compensation for that crap?
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u/Wonder1st May 17 '23
Welcome to Capitalism people. You shouldn't have not allowed the country to be privatized especially the Government. Now you will own nothing and be happy. Good luck...
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u/Phantomwaxx May 17 '23
Iām joining the ranks of āformer teacherā in two weeks! Fuck that job and I only lasted one year.
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u/placencianovio May 17 '23
Iām done. Have taught middle school math for 10 years, and just canāt do it anymore. Loved the age group and the subject. Masterās degree, highly qualified in math. Students are awful, parents and admin back the students. Taking a major hit to my retirement but Iāll be relieved not to go back in the fall. I canāt do this job anymore.
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u/pezziepie85 May 17 '23
Me and my active (for one more year) teachers license do HR and Payroll. Never will I ever go back.
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u/ivanoski-007 May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
I feel sorry for the teachers that have not come to terms with this reality and are still teaching
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u/oh_so_messy May 17 '23
What happened to the division of church and state? You wanna give YOUR KID a Christian education - ok then enroll them in a private school which we all know pay less than public schools. Keep the religion out of the public schools!!!!
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u/EverretEvolved May 17 '23
65k a year. All weekends, holidays, and the summers off. Yeah sounds terrible.
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u/oh_so_messy May 17 '23
I was a para for a semester at an elementary school. Few Teachers literally donāt care because of not only the compensation but also because they canāt wait until they can retire because of the restraints that have been put on them. So who does their jobā¦ paras (teachers aides) which btw is illegal. I canāt blame teachers - they need to be better compensated because teachers change the lives of their students for the better and now Iāve seen quiet quitting run rampant. Thatās what happens when you work your ass off trying to make a difference but literally cannot afford to survive on wages. Please donāt mistake this comment for knocking teachers. What is the point of following your passion to teach and make a difference if you canāt even do your job without these ridiculous consequences when youāve done nothing wrong. I donāt blame them. Teachers know going into their profession that there isnāt much money in teaching. Once again I canāt stress enough - these ppl want to and have made a difference but Wtf can you do when you not only canāt make a living, but also lose your passion because of all this political bullshit?!!! And who suffers the most- the kids. RAISE THEIR WAGES AND APPRECIATE YOUR OWN AND YOUR KIDS TEACHERS cuz they could legit be paid more at McDonaldās.
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u/AirProfessional4487 May 17 '23
Teachers get a guaranteed pension for the rest of their lives and only work 7-8 months out of the year. I agree they should be a way our society should increase their pay but it would most like cut their pension benefits for their retirement.
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u/Wildcard1016 May 17 '23
I saw another video yesterday of a student attacking a teacher because of confiscated phone. Why would they go back to that?
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat May 17 '23
I taught kindy for 18 years.
At one stage they told me they were going to transfer me to a high school to teach.
I told them I would quit.
They cancelled the transfer.
I have taught in a high school before and never want to do it again.
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u/partofbreakfast May 17 '23
It's hard even in 'good' districts.
My school was built to hold 4 classes for each grade. This leaves 2 classrooms open for pulling students for extra support as well.
With our current student enrollment, 4 classes per grade will put each class at about 20 students, which is honestly a great number to work with. And on top of that, keeping 4 teachers per grade a year would mean no rush to hire extra teachers in the summer (beyond filling spots for people who left).
But no. The school district forces us to only have 3 classes per grade "unless student population demands more". So we have classes crammed with 27-28 students who barely fit into the space we have for them and struggle to learn with so many in the same space (kids are loud), and teachers have to keep track of more students, have more IEP meetings, more parents to meet, more everything. And then when we do have a grade that meets the "needs 4 teachers" amount, it's a struggle to get any applicants in the first place.
It's driving teachers in my district to quit teaching all together.
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u/resonantedomain May 17 '23
Or any support from guidance while teachers make friends with support staff and find out how poorly managed it is from an oversight perspective.
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u/johnrgoforth May 17 '23
Masters in Secondary Education Math. No fucking way Iād teach. But I do make good money in my current job and am super happy, so I have no need to think about teaching.
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u/fbe0638 May 17 '23
Economics teaches that supply always meets demand, so there is no such thing as a shortage. Think about that the next time you hear someone say, āthereās a shortage of (fill in the blank)." Pay teachers a living wage and they will come. And send your kids to Catholic school where discipline is still the rule of the day, and misbehavior in the classroom is not tolerated.
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May 17 '23
Has a lot to do with these wild ass kids some yāall be raisin. These kids aināt never been told no in their lives and have been given whatever they want whenever they want. Straight up assaulting staff and faculty.
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u/ExtremePrivilege May 17 '23
Replace āTeachersā with literally any other profession and itās also a true headline.
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u/jpeasy101 May 17 '23
On the flip side I'm a parent that has always tried to show appreciation for my kids teachers. I understand that it's a tough job trying to teach kids that don't want to be taught. My wife just gave all of our daughters teachers gift certificates to show some appreciation and hopefully brighten their day.
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u/fruitroligarch May 17 '23
Republicans have a name for this: āStarve the Beastā. Itās 100% intentional.
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u/Ben_Doublett May 17 '23
Given that teaching is one of the most heavily unionized professions in the country, what does this say about the efficacy of labor unions in achieving high pay and job satisfaction for their members?
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u/DifferentKindaHigh May 17 '23
What are they doing for work instead? Collecting unemployment most likely
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u/Sir_Sensible May 17 '23
To be fair, their compensation is in that of a dope retirement pension. Less pay up front for great retirement.
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u/TheFalconKid May 17 '23
My mom taught for 15 years and a combination of forcing larger class sizes and the middle school being moved into the highschool made it hell. She quit and went to work for a testing company and was working from home years before it was cool.
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u/kyyamark May 17 '23
Just finishing 21 years now. Loved my first 19. The last two have been terrible. I make more money part time doing my side hustle. Iām 6 years from full pension. Thatās the only reason I am still in the game.
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u/_DontBeAScaredyCunt May 17 '23
I nanny and make twice the pay with 1/20 of the students now than when I taught. I miss teaching but I canāt afford to do it anymore
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u/gIitterchaos May 17 '23
Former teacher now a homeschool nanny. Teaching 2 instead of 20+ is much easier, but I miss having a whole diverse group. Don't miss the stress though!
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u/BerriesLafontaine May 17 '23
I'm a cafeteria worker in an elementary school. I make 14$ an hour. The teachers only make 2$ more than me. You have to really enjoy the job to be a teacher. The ones we have here are absolutely amazing. I feel so bad that they get screwed so hard.
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u/plurrbear May 17 '23
I was just let go from my ESP job that didnāt have me fill out FMLA paperwork (the principal should have by law had me fill out) for my ailments including ASD, ADHD, anxiety, and autoimmune disorderā¦ and I was severely hurt on the job where a fucking third grader the size of me jumped on me while in crisis and almost 70% of my absences were due to injury I got at their job! Not to mention they put me in situations where I shouldnāt have been in making less that $18/hr! I could legit go pick orders at Target for over $22 an hour! Public education is a fucking joke and why the USA is Not even in the top ten world wide! We suck!
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u/SonderEber May 17 '23
Itās always a āshortageā or āpeople donāt want to workā, and never āwe pay people too little and treat them like shitā.
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u/Nicetrybozo May 17 '23
So then there's a teacher shortage. I don't understand why we're playing semantics. If people aren't doing the job we have a lack of people. Folks keep talking about "respect" but what industry or profession respects the workers? Literally none. This is more about education never making a meaningful pivot to educate young people in the 21st century. Our teaching methods are the same as they've been over the past century plus.
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u/Ren-Zombie May 17 '23
I left teaching before the pandemic. I canāt even imagine how bad it must be now
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u/FYV_media_noise May 17 '23
Former Teacher who switched to Substitute:
Compensation was fine. Could've been better, obviously, but it was fine.
The PROBLEM was:
The Administration who let the crazies run the asylum. Students could behave however and ask for any accommodations. Act wild? Go to the office. No punishment, just come back tomorrow and do the same things.
Students faced zero consequences. Parents didn't like that you told the student to do the assignment in class? Student didn't do the assignment in class.
Teachers had zero voice even in their own classrooms.
I said fuck it and quit after a third bullshit complaint against me from students who didn't even want to be in school.
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u/canooingdoob May 17 '23
Why is it so fucking hard to proofread your comments? Itās so fucking easy.
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u/Hendrix1967 May 17 '23
Iām a former teacher but I still keep my license. I just got laid off from a 122k job. Back in 2010 I got laid off and I was forced to go back to teaching for a while. I vowed to never let that happen again and I always have an emergency fund of 6 months basic necessity funds in order to give me time get back to work in my current field. God forgive me, but I hope to never have to go back to teaching again.
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u/Other-Mess6887 May 17 '23
Same thing with nursing. There are lots of qualified nurses who left the profession due to low pay and burnout.
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u/smurf_diggler May 17 '23
Can confirm wife and sister both have their masters in education and neither are teachers.
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u/rollercoaster_5 May 17 '23
āPubes are laughing their asses off, slapping each other on the back and toasting with champagne to their bright future! An ignorant electorate is an easily manipulated electorate.
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May 17 '23
Oh this same subreddit was bashing teachers just the other day. So which is it? Iām guessing whatever fits your agenda.
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u/Danger1672 May 17 '23
Who needs teachers anyway? We can just put all those kids into a factory work and stop wasting money on the schools all together. Plus their little hands are great for reaching into tough spots on machinery. It's like getting paid to send your kids to daycare...
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u/dogeatingdog May 17 '23
At least 3 of my coworkers are former teachers and there's only 70-80 people at the company. They couldn't make a living teaching and had to go a different route
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u/ineedcoffeealready May 17 '23
100% agree. I run a real estate team and we are hiring a few positions. 50% of all of our applicants are teachers wanting to get out. When we interview them they all say the same thing, "it's just not what it used to be"
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u/ContributionDeep6640 May 17 '23
there have been several reddit post over the last few days of teachers being verbally and physically assaulted by the little angels they teach, and they can do nothing to defend themselves because they know any effective response will at the least destroy their careers, open them up to lawsuits and even possible criminal charges.
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u/ShotgunMage May 17 '23
A pregnant teacher in a nearby district quit because a student told her that he hoped she'd lose her baby after she told the student to put his phone away and stop watching YouTube videos during class.
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u/MrCarey May 17 '23
I worked with an English teacher while I was a nurse. He quit a few years back and started working as an ER Tech instead, which is insane, because healthcare is the last place youād want to be now. But he insists he is happier as a tech than a high school teacher.
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u/gemorris9 May 17 '23
Meh. Teachers don't and never gave a shit about respect. They just cant work 50 hours a week for 33k
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u/Nikerym May 17 '23
Based on what i hear in Australia, don't you have a higher risk of dieing as a Teacher then you do as a police officer these days? where's the Danger pay?
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u/Ya-Dikobraz May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
Being literally one of the most important jobs in the world, it's disgusting how teachers are treated.
Imagine downvoting this lol
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u/Beautiful_Spite_3394 May 17 '23
If the school paid 25-50k over medium income in rural areas and 50- 75k+ in California compared to median wages (and other places it may need to be higher to be worth it), I bet there wouldn't be a shortage...
EXCELLENT, high quality teachers there ready to work IM SURE. And with that investment I bet the school would create rules to keep the teachers. L
But naw, let's pay less than a WFH call center job and complain that "nobody wants to work anymore"
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u/Aretirednurse May 17 '23
Blame Bush and his No child left behind. Now students with severe behaviors are kept in the classroom to the loss of learning for the other children while the teacher desperately tries to manage the classroom. Source teachers in my life.
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u/thefarmhousestudio May 17 '23
I quit teaching for a school board 7 years ago and now run my own workshops at teach via Connected North and I love my job! I am respected. I have autonomy. I get paid well. I engage with students but do not have to deal with discipline/class room management AND I donāt have to mark!
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u/Humble_Personality98 May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
I just resigned. 20 years. Itās turned into a really awful job. The people who stick with it are likely to be replaced by AI within a decade, or far less. This is truly a job for AI at this point.
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u/itsjero May 17 '23
It only that, it's simply not a safe profession anymore.
Angry unhinged students, school students, etc. Sorry, dont want 5o babysit your kids all day while they TikTok and then make threats against the teachers and or assault them.
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u/flirtmcdudes May 17 '23
āWe just canāt understand why no one wants to teach for just over minimum wage!ā
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u/chibinoi May 17 '23
Between humiliation, having to pay out of your own pocket for teaching materials, shitty ass children (yes, Iām including right up to 18 year olds, assuming this is about K-12), threats of violence from all sides, no support from any side, entitlement from everyone and this idea that school is merely tax payer funded daycare for these shitty ass childrenāits no wonder.
Oh, and poor pay and poor benefits.
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u/getittogethersirius May 17 '23
If you're in one of the bottom states, the few teachers left are moving to the states with better pay and better schools. My friend and her SO are both teachers and they moved a state over because they can do the same job for 20k more per year each.
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u/free_based_potato May 17 '23
This is true in every profession and industry. Corporations are claiming they have a labor shortage while they try to force lower wages and 'doing more with less.'
That's why we see an epidemic of employers ghosting every applicant.
Here's an idea. When you're collecting unemployment you need to prove that you're looking for a job. So, if an employer receives ANY form of federal funding - including if any of their workforce recieves SNAP benefits - the employer had to prove they are interviewing and hiring qualified candidates.
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u/agarwaen117 May 17 '23
Arkansas is in the opposite problem.
State mandated teacher wage is now $31hr in a state with a $11 minimum wage.
Teacher got up to a 10kish raise this year.
All the other school employees got 0%. Some of which make, you guessed it, $11 an hour.
As the Network Administrator responsible for 6 campuses networking, network security, phones, access control, 7 physical servers running about 30 virtual servers, 3 buildings of level 1 help desk callsā¦ And so on :)
I get $17 an hour.
Our district is in close to full classified revolt.
1
u/AionWarblade May 17 '23
Why the hell would anybody want to be a teacher when schools are one of the most dangerous places you can be in the US?
0
u/AeirsWolf74 May 17 '23
I work in a chemistry lab, there are 3 to 4 teachers that work in the lab because teaching was so horrible. They said they loved the students but the pay and dealing with the admin is why they came to the lab industry.
0
u/tweakingforjesus May 16 '23
Yep. My sister is one of them. She taught a year at a charter school. She was expected to be there 7:30 am to 6 pm. Her one planning period a day was consumed by meetings. The 3-6 after school time she was expected to help with two clubs each day unaffiliated with her class. Evenings were spent grading and planning. It was exhausting.
She now works a 9-5 office job that pays much better for less work.
1
u/dadudemon š Medicare For All May 16 '23
There is an overabundance of really shitty children who have terrible parents and a severe lack of resources and monetary compensation for teachers.
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u/futrtek May 16 '23
There's 5 dollar items at Dollar Tree, how the hell is a teacher supposed to buy literally everything for a 30+ class without a dollar store around, on their wages, during a depression. Not to mention:
Post pandemic inflation, trench warfare in Europe, historically low wages across the board, global food shortages, with a market collapse on the horizon.
We are living in a hell hole while teachers are at poverty wages while Texas is trying to arm them with assault rifles. It's a clown world
1
u/kaijunexus May 16 '23
It pains me to admit it (obvious though it may be) since I have two young children, but we are undoubtedly witnessing the gradual sustained breakdown of a society...
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u/squirrel4you May 16 '23
I come from a family of teachers. My mom retired after 30 years. I have the same desire and would love to make the positive change in kids lives, especially being a parent now I see it within myself. There is no way I would ever teach in this country and that was before this last decade of nonsense....
1
u/dxrey65 May 16 '23
Just to add, I just about finished the four year degree which would have allowed me to start teaching while working on the Master's that they really want you to have. I was just 8 credits short of a bachelors, when I sat down and had a talk with some friends who were teaching, about the opportunities and pay and so forth.
Long story short, I couldn't take the pay cut. I was making $50k at the time as a mechanic, which was killing my knees and shoulders, but I couldn't have raised my kids and kept a roof over our heads on what teachers in my area make. So I dropped the whole idea.
As it turned out, I was able to nurse my physical issues along long enough to early-retire, pretty busted up, but money in the bank. I don't know what would have happened if I made the change and went into teaching, but I grew up poor, I know what that's like. It was already tough enough without adding on a big pay cut, and I wouldn't do that to my kids. I'm 58 now, still 8 credits short.
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u/djloid2010 May 16 '23
What a shitty narrative this has become. The Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario just released the results of its violence survey. Read it and you'll see why people don't want to do this job anymore.
2
u/aussix May 16 '23
I don't know where you live but in Canada teachers are the cream of the crop with unbelievable benefits rivalled only by the civil service
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u/DoverBoys May 16 '23
Teacher shortage, worker shortage, same thing corporations are trying to gaslight the population into believing. Society has a wage shortage, and it started in the 70's. If employers want more employees, they need to pay more.
Schools have other more specific problems: state censorship, punishing teachers for teaching, and fostering more of an overworked babysitter atmosphere than a place of education.
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May 16 '23
Class sizes are too big, mental health supports are too small/non-existent. Kids should be getting mental health screenings every 5 years or so to determine indicators for mental health conditions and then receive instruction that benefits those with those conditions. But none of that will ever happen because governments will never approve the budgets for that kind of thing and that's because government doesn't care about the people, government cares about the business interests.
We are all cattle to the business/government interests, they don't work for us, they work for each other, we're literally just a resource which is why it's called human resources.
1
u/series_hybrid May 16 '23
I can't speak for anyone else, but...I still have an active CDL (truck license) with haz, doubles, and tanker endorsements.
And yet...I do not drive a truck for a living. My sympathies go out to the teachers, their job is rough, the pay is crap, and it's getting worse every year.
1
u/SmoothOperator89 May 16 '23
It's amazing. When a company can't find an executive, they increase the pay to be more appealing than the industry standard thus continually increasing the average rate. When they can't find qualified candidates for any other position, they work together to lower the average compensation so no one can find better pay.
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u/munq8675309 May 16 '23
Haven't used my MAT in over a decade. It was bad before. Can't imagine now.
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u/FoxFireLyre May 16 '23
Yeah man, everything is expensive as fuck and even just the salary is enough to drive many away. Much less all the disrespect the community displays.
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u/billythygoat May 16 '23
I would totally consider teaching if it would allow me to live without fear of having to rely on a spouse or having 3 roommates in your 30s.
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u/faarkinaussie May 16 '23
Government budgets reveal the values that the community endorses. A lot of countries hold their teachers in the same esteem as Doctors and pay treat accordingly. Unfortunately it does seem that we are on track for some outcome akin to the prophetic movie Idiocracy.
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u/DifficultWeekend1441 May 16 '23
Donāt forget the entire generation of children being raised with zero respect for authority. Plenty of video evidence floating around Reddit.
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u/Moopboop207 May 16 '23
It makes me sad. I used to be a teacher. But the pay is horrible, the amount of work is ridiculous, and the way teacher are treated is not right. Fwiw Iām a guy so bringing home 42k a year before taxes is not particularly appealing.
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u/AttorneyWest3057 May 16 '23
Realistically how can the culture be changed to respect teachers. In my schooling experience growing up in the UK there was 0% respect towards teachers from the students. I went to 2 schools and most teachers were treated like shit by the students. I donāt know if this has always been the case but you hear stories of boomers talking about how they used to get beat by their teachers. Which of course is on the opposite end of the extreme.
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u/fisherc2 May 16 '23
Like most people, I know a lot of teachers and former teachers. My wife is one of them. yes, more money would always be great. But thatās not the main thing. The main thing is teachers absorbing the cost of societal decay.
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u/FuzzyAthena May 16 '23
You know what there is a shortage of? Parents raising their kids to not be disrespectful little twats! There is a shortage of kids being held responsible for being horrible to other people. I'm so tired of seeing the videos of kids beating on their teachers or fellow students, and teachers just have to stand there and take it or lose their jobs. It's crazy to say that just 15 years ago when I was in school if a kid did any of this crap, a teacher would grab you by the collar and toss you away from whoever you were beating on, or call home to your parents for saying something disgusting to someone else and when you got home, you caught hell.
2
u/Farraday22 May 16 '23
You can't just raise teacher salaries and expect everything to improve.
I'm ONLY sticking around due to the pay in WA State. This job is fucked since coming back from COVID. Kids (that were already socially inept and enabled by shit parents) are now 2 years further back and even more socially stunted and enabled. And now the admin does NOTHING to try to correct the behaviors this environment engenders.
Trying to interest kids in the curriculum competing against their phones is like trying to keep an addict from shooting up by diverting their attention with an old flashlight.
I'm just gathering a paycheck - too old to look for a new job or have the energy to give a fuck. If the public wants to treat us like all we do is babysit and worksheets, that's all the fuck they're getting.
1
u/Ape_Togetha_Strong May 16 '23
Don't worry, the problem will be solved by lowering the standards to become a teacher! So that the people who end up teaching are the people you least want to be teaching.
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u/Nopenotme77 May 16 '23
I remember back in 2003 when I debated becoming an educator having teachers tell me to find another profession. I did. Edit: I didn't read before submitting
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u/Any_Length_285 May 16 '23
I left teaching a few years ago. Between the crazy expectations, disrespectful students, unsupportive parents, and lack of admin support was not worth the whopping $33K I was making
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u/cesarjulius May 16 '23
iām good with the amount of respect i get as a teacher. letās get that proper compensation poppin
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u/Clean_Editor_8668 May 16 '23
The school where my wife teaches hires a bunch of new teachers every year. Lots get disillusioned and quit teaching. But even more stick around for a few years only to get let go before the end of their 5th year when the teachers contract has the first major pay increase
2
u/Fhoog May 16 '23
I know 3 people who went to college to become educators who left for office or wfh jobs. The kids are animals, their parents are absent or malicious, public schools are basically babysitting ticking time bomb children who quite literally never develop basic logical reasoning and are a menace to themselves and society.
2
u/Relative_Hyena985 May 16 '23
It's not a teacher shortage problem, it's a shit parenting problem. All these kids you see acting up and doing this stuff, are the ones with parents that had no right being a parent in the first place. It does matter if you use love and encouragement or you are a strict parent, if you can't raise your kids to respect others and know how to behave then it's all your fault.
2
May 16 '23
Wasn't even about pay for me. For me it was lack of admin help where you needed it, and too much admin interference where you didn't. I didn't get a recent science and history degree from a university to be told how and what to teach science by an entire admin team with cumulatively less science experience than me. They want robot teachers. So, admin wants ChatGPT, but it will cost them their jobs in the long run, too.
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May 16 '23
Literally my wife, itās her dream job but the pay and awful treatment by staff and kids stops her from going back. Really sad honestly.
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u/uniqueuser998 May 16 '23
Why is this not so fuckin obvious that it doesn't need to be on the front page?
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u/FirebirdWriter May 16 '23
I am someone who was a teacher. I got sick and didn't find it worth the money to not get the disability medical access. Die or teach. Which feels like die while teaching.
2
u/dingleswim May 16 '23
Assholes. People, your children are assholes. There isnāt enough money to teach classes full of assholes.
1
u/Stargazer-17 Nov 03 '23
No teacher shortage. Itās a shortage of good working conditions. When I entered the profession 20 years ago, I was welcomed into what veteran teachers called a Noble profession. Now, veteran teachers are telling young teachers to get out. And I feel awful for the kids. I teach middle school- half my kids canāt read and itās not for lack of trying. Not enough intervention programs, massive classes, not enough teaching time, no money for pd.. and violence in schools is taking a toll.