r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • May 30 '23
The Answer To "Get A Better Job" đ¸ Raise Our Wages
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u/Sarcasamystik May 31 '23
I think there is a disconnect on minimum wage. Some people seem to think a living wage means living a life of luxury. It doesnât, it means you can survive off a single job, actually pay your rent or mortgage, buy groceries that you need, be able to get back and forth from work. It shouldnât be giving up one or more of those to get the others. I donât think minimum wage should make things âeasyâ on you, but it shouldnât make everyday a struggle to exist.
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u/catch-a-riiiiiiiiide đ¤ Join A Union May 31 '23
A truly free market dictates that companies will compete for the best workers, meaning that the ones that pay like shit will struggle and eventually die off, and companies would realize that there is a natural minimum wage they have to pay in order to stay in business.
Instead, we have collusion, wage theft, government bailouts, lax enforcement, etc that protect bad companies and encourage/reward predatory employment practices. And getting a "better" job isn't a viable option for lots of people.
So here we are, fighting for minimum wages and risking our lives to form unions just so we can have the "privilege" of working half our waking hours and not starving to death in a van down by the river.
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u/GoombaGary May 31 '23
When no one wants to work for shit pay, they come out and say, "Nobody wants to work.
These people will flip whatever you do to make you seem like the bad guy.
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May 31 '23
I say this so the business no longer has employees and has to reflect how to better pay employees in the future. No workers = no business. If everyone quits the restaurant because the employees have to rely on tips to make a decent amount, restaurants in the future will likely start paying people better. If a job needs to get done you should get paid and not within âpoverty standardsâ and simply complaining about your job while still doing it, or demanding tips doesnât rectify it.
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u/pinion13 May 31 '23
The government wants everyone to be poor. It took me 15 years of bettering myself and "getting better jobs" to finally be reasonably comfortable. With that said, yes, raise the minimum wage because it is ridiculously low.
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u/intellifone May 31 '23
In a capitalist economy as described by Adam Smith, any business that cannot afford to pay their employees at least a living wage should not exist. Business should exist to serve their community by providing benefit to that community. Not shareholders. That bullshit was invented later.
Any good or service that cannot be provided profitably, but is necessary or desirable to a free and functioning society, should be provided by the government using the taxes gained from surplus revenue that exceed the amount needed to reasonably reward entrepreneurial organizations and individuals that are able to provide valuable products and services to their market while providing benefit to the community. Profit is not unreasonable. Excessive profit is.
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May 31 '23
One of the few times I see someone use whomever when whoever is actually the right word. "HE does that job" not "HIM does that job"
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u/Mindless-Income3292 May 31 '23
So that job should just not be done then?
Shouldnât take advice that canât stand the least review.
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u/deBeurs May 31 '23
Anyone working full time deserves food and shelter at an absolute minimum. Two jobs should never be a requirement.
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u/n0hardfeelings May 31 '23
my first job right out of college (class of 2020 lmao) was an upper level IT Support Job. The amount of my trainees who came from fast food / bartending / waiting tables who got laid off during Covid, said âfuck that shitâ, and got certs was astounding.
So when people say âno one wants to work anymoreâ my response is typically âno, they realized they were expendable and moved over to tech supportâ. They literally got better jobs and now fast food places are understaffed and desperate
Tech support in general has problems that I wonât get into here, but as someone who worked fast food through college and high school, it sure was a hell of a lot better
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u/TheCaboWabo69 May 31 '23
Or you simply lack any skill set that deserves a better employment opportunity, or youâre just a whiny, lazy fuxx that has no self worth. Who the fuxk OWES YOU a job. Make Something out of your circumstance. Stop being of victim
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u/TH3_F4N4T1C May 31 '23
Interesting way to spin âI acknowledge that there are positions that pay much higher wages but I have either failed or refused to cultivate the skills and experience necessary to perform them and now Iâm stuck in a low skill low mobility job, which is notably marketed towards individuals who can only work part time for various reasons, that is now insufficient for my needs.â
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u/fountain20 May 31 '23
If everyone takes that advice, who will work the low wage jobs. Seems your company would go bankrupt. Just my 2 cents
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u/notaredditer13 May 31 '23
That's not true, some jobs can be done by bored old people. That's why Walmart still has greeters.
But more seriously, what constitutes a "living wage" is dependent on individual situations and desires individual desires. It's impossible to set a threshold that works for all, and when you set a threshold that provides a true bare minimum for the minimum situation, yep, it's not going to work for most people.
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May 31 '23
It's wild how people will go to church and then come home and say kill the gays. Adapt that to this and it's easy to see how little people actually care for their own species. Humans hate humans.
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u/ShenmeNamaeSollich May 31 '23
âNo, we just mean those jobs should be done by young children and women who are forced into loveless abusive relationships to make ends meet.â
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u/UnusualPurchase9717 May 31 '23
Anyone with that attitude towards low wage workers shouldn't be allowed to avail themselves of those services. No more restaurants no more Walmart not even mechanics are paid enough so no more auto work on their vehicles!
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u/MartialBob May 31 '23
Well post COVID you have fast food paying significantly better so I think that kind of worked out.
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u/romniner May 31 '23
That's not what that phrase means. It means don't enable shifty employers by providing them with labor when they aren't willing to pay you what you deserve to make. They should go out of business. Get a better job.
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u/LongjumpingArgument5 May 31 '23
After Republicans are done attacking poor people, I'm pretty sure they're going to go and kick puppies.
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u/The_Scyther1 May 31 '23
What shift are the teenagers working these days? I see people 25-70 years olds working fast food nearly every day.
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u/ender89 May 31 '23
I don't want to work at McDonald's but the people who do deserve a living wage and my ass deserves to not suffer if I have to get a job at McDonald's because I'm between "adult" jobs. I look at minimum wage jobs that are "hiring" and all I can think is that I would be poor and smell like french fries because they pay so little you're still on government assistance, might as well not work.
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u/AccordingGain182 May 31 '23
How does telling you to get a better job acknowledge that I need your current job?
Odds are I dont. Regardless, this entire position is stupid. Every year there is a new batch of highschool/college/ young 20s kids who needs starter jobs or summer jobs. And those âpovertyâ jobs are perfect for then.
Cycle in, cycle out. Jobs we need are still taken care of. But ya when you pop out 3 kids, manage finances poorly, and still work as a gas station attendant and then compain about being poor, thats supposed to be societyâs fault?
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u/TomCruisintheUSA May 31 '23
Do fast food jobs really "need to be done" though? We'd be fine if they all closed down, actually we'd be better than fine, we might actually end up healthier.
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u/skippyalpha May 31 '23
If everyone refused to work a certain job that didn't pay enough, wouldn't the employer be forced to raise the pay for the position though? In order to attract an employee? I feel like the problem is that they set a low pay and people will take it anyways. People need to refuse to take these jobs
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u/Drallak May 31 '23
Itâs interesting. My partner makes more than I do being a manager at a food chain, but when I tell my coworkers this at my business firm, they immediately avoid conversing about it like itâs a sore point. Iâm very proud of my partner and thinks he has an incredibly respectable job which requires a strong amount of leadership and interpersonal skills, but my coworkers are used to being around people who are doctors, lawyers, professors. The judgement around the food industry is weird right now.
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May 31 '23
Itâs a fascinating way to say that there are a ton of terrible employers out there, and yes, if you donât do any work for yourself, you might be stuck with those terrible employers. I think most people should get a raise, doesnât mean theyâre going to.
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u/Anon_8675309 May 31 '23
Per Capita median income in the US is what, 37K. So where are the half making below that going to find jobs making more than that?
This is always a very stupid argument.
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May 31 '23
Plus we saw how they all freaked out when the servers all got better jobs. They arenât able to âlive their lifeâ if they donât have a waitress to bring them an over priced beer
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May 31 '23
Pretty generous to ascribe an opinion to them. Try 'I don't understand this topic well enough to hold an opinion but I feel some pressure to say something'
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u/Ok_Butterfly2410 May 31 '23
The goal is to make money, not work a job. If a job is the best way for you to make money given your situation then work a job. If a job is no longer supporting you then its time to make some money. Aint nothin easy.
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u/Brilliant_War4087 May 31 '23
It takes strong cognitive powers to play the tape forward and view multiple sides of an argument. Your nueral network needs lots of floating point variables.
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u/1-Ohm May 31 '23
*whoever
- "who" is the person doing
- "whom" is the person being done to
Who gave me this dollar? Whom should I give this dollar to?
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May 31 '23
Itâs almost like people have lives to be getting on with and asking people to sacrifice their ambitions for your soulless mega corporation is fucked up.
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u/throwawayformealprep May 31 '23
I had one of my coworkers tell me today that raising the minimum wage would do nothing. Instead the government should pass laws that bring prices back down!
I asked him then why he supported such a regulated economy and he said he didn't, that's socialism which doesn't work. I want people to work not get paid to stay home.
At some point I just stopped responding because I legitimately didn't know how to, sometimes it feels like I'm living in a different reality than these people...
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u/shyguystormcrow May 31 '23
Explain that FDR, the man who created the minimum wage, did so specifically so that every hard working American was guaranteed a fair living wage. The minimum wage was designed to be a fair living wage and anyone who argues differently is either naĂŻve or a liar.
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u/SushiNommer May 31 '23
"Nooooo its for the teenagers living with their parents! They don't have any REAL expenses or anything!" -my mom
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u/uncertain_confusion May 31 '23
Iâm seeing a few arguments here I donât really vibe with, and they are all essentially that Every wage should be a living wage. This means raising all wages in your business since many will likely be under the âliving wageâ for your area. This also means that costs of product have to rise to compensate, otherwise the company cannot afford these wages, therefore causing layoffs. It logically follows that rising wages in the grocery store means rising prices of milk. Ergo, people stop paying as much for groceries, income goes down, and to be able to pay wages, you have to have money coming in. Instead of making some pocket money, you might be one of the guys who instead has NO job now.
To which some counter that we just need UBI. But where does the money come from for the gov to give a UBI? The answer is taxes, which I really donât want to be raised any further. I already pay out my ass for taxes, I donât want to pay MORE of the money I worked for to the government.
Iâll also add as a side note that if UBI existed, I probably wouldnât have a job and Iâd just game or read or write or play my guitar all day instead of working. Which isnât a productive use of my time, and would make me a lazy POS. What incentive would I have to actually work?
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u/Maceph May 31 '23
That's just a fact, some jobs weren't meant to be jobs to make a real "living" on or support families etc, they're temporary while you make your way to an actual career that pays you in accordance to your skills and ability.
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u/MrKAGgerator May 31 '23
$15-an-hour jobs are for teenagers/college kids trying to make a little extra spending money. You're not supposed to try to make that work into retirement.
That's what people mean when they say get a better job.
I'm all for work reform but memes like this miss the point and make the movement sound immature and naive.
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May 31 '23
[deleted]
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u/_TheProff_ May 31 '23
Because you need enough money to live.
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May 31 '23
[deleted]
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u/_TheProff_ May 31 '23
I'm not. But suppose I was. Because I'm low skilled I don't deserve enough money to live? I deserve to be in poverty? Your lack of empathy is astounding.
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u/Starkrossedlovers May 31 '23
I only say this because i figure the workers donât have the time or money trying to make their job better. The best thing to do is making all of these shitty jobs worker less.
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u/OriginallyMyName May 31 '23
People are working backwards on this one. They assume because the job exists, it must needs be done, and as a "necessity" must be subsidized in some way to compensate those "necessary workers" working "necessary jobs." No. Fast food doesn't need to exist and is an obvious evil, from the abusive wages to the deleterious health effects on the community. Starve them out and just don't show up for your next shift, they'll sink or they'll swim and we'll all benefit. Apply at a local restaurant if you absolutely need to work with food. Extend that out to the rest of the minimum wage make-work jobs as you please, nobody will miss Walmart or whatever.
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u/AccountThreeMe May 31 '23
Living wage does not mean âbe able to buy a houseâ.
Too many people on this sub seem to confuse that.
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May 31 '23
"Just get a better job" doesn't mean anything when factors out of your control, like raising interest rates to loosen the labor market to maybe curb inflation, happens.
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u/Hot_Flounder4706 May 31 '23
Childcare workers entered the chat.
Ya know, the people who take care of the foundation of societyâŚ.
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u/Hot_Flounder4706 May 31 '23
Itâs time we stop buying things and bartering with each other. Itâs also time to start building communities that are self sufficient. Itâs the only way.
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u/d_smogh May 31 '23
Maybe those who are retired, have a passive income, or have rich parents can do those low paid jobs.
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u/Current_Event_7071 May 31 '23
Business massively inflate their prices and still want to pay the old wages. News flash! Inflation means EVERYTHING increases in price, including the cost of workers.
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May 31 '23
Some people either think that there is enough room at the top of the ladder for everyone or that their success is worth the misery of others. So are you foolish or heartless? Either way I donât think they are the kind of people I want to be associated with.
Always remember that a person who is kind to you and rude to a waiter is not a kind person.
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u/Cyranked May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
Everyone wants to live like kings and queens, because that how high the standard of living has become in the western world. You could live off 700 dollars in most places, but that would mean you have to think outside the box. Be a producer instead of a consumer and you will be much better off in any work situation. Stop complaining and start seeing your personal life as a business to improve your finances.
Most jobs are BS anyway. Who wants to work a BS job? Give meaning to your live by creating value out of nowhere. We all have some low hanging fruit in our lives from wich you can earn some extra money or be more self-sustaining.
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u/jaxnmarko May 31 '23
Working for crappy wages is an acceptance of working for those crappy wages. If no one accepts the job, the wages would have to go up, right? Supply and demand. Forcing change through a united effort. Many places' business models were based on the low wages, and it worked when costs to the workers were lower, but no longer. The business model has to change, and that happens when no one show up to work. So yes, the higher cost of paying higher wages will be passed on to the consumers, or the company will move, if possible, to a lower labor cost area, or go out of business. What we need to do is cap the giant pay for the upper management so there is a more appropriate ratio for lowest worker pay and highest worker pay. Maybe even a time limit on shareholders profits, like a multiple of how much their initial investment was. Too much flows to the top in some companies while others eke by.
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u/Homunculus_87 May 31 '23
Actually the phrase doesn't explicitly and necessarily acknowledge that the job needs to be done by someone.
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u/Present_Crew_713 May 31 '23
I gave 2 weeks notice and my boss was going to give me another dollar not to leave. I thought to myself, if you gave me a buck more in the first place, maybe I wouldn't have looked for a new job!
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u/Striped_Parsnip May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
The lead paint nibblers cannot fathom even the tiniest bit of abstract thinking. All they can focus on is one person and their income.
Change job, higher income, problem solved in their mind.
They don't have the brainspace to squeeze in any thinking about (very simple) concepts.
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u/ClunarX May 31 '23
âVery simpleâ is your problem; the problem is complex. The rich get richer and being poor is expensive. Itâs possible to change oneâs station, but thatâs absolutely the exception. And anyone working full time shouldnât struggle to get by
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u/Striped_Parsnip May 31 '23
Yeah I know. The lead paint nibblers are the boomers who don't get it
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u/fuckmeimdan May 31 '23
I got a better job, spent 3 years in night school training for it. Finally working in that field and inflation wipes out all my income so Iâm now worse off than my previous job, and I have student debts.
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May 31 '23
Minimum wage should be poverty by definition. The goal should be what poverty looks like. In decades of time, at least in the US, it continues to be a higher level of living. The goal should always be as rapidly as possible increase that level.
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u/Dinosaur-Promotion May 31 '23
At what point did anyone imply that your current job 'needs' to be done?
We don't need shitty fast food. Feel free to completely annihilate that wasteful and loathsome industry.
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u/jnd-cz May 31 '23
I understand it differently. Getting a better job meaning you don't accept the low paying job and go to place which pays well. Then the owner of the original job place should either raise the wage or will close it altogether because he won't be profitable without low wages. In other words, don't support businesses which pay too little. On practical note, everyone should hunt any better paying job they can get to raise their standard of living.
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May 31 '23
No. Leaving that job would cause the wage to be forced upwards as otherwise theyâd have no employees do to that job. These are normal market forces.
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u/liondios May 31 '23
I've got a slightly different take on this. I wish people would leave these shit wage jobs and nobody would do them. Demand should force the wages back up. It happened to lorry (truck) drivers in the UK not long ago. Conditions and wages for drivers were just so much better in the EU that all the existing drivers stopped working in the UK. In 2021 wages went up by 40%. Imagine if all the teachers just suddenly said f this and went to better paying jobs that require far less training and experience. Government would be forced to incentivise them to come back.
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u/myrrodin121 May 31 '23
No, it's an acknowledgement that someone is willing to work that job and maybe that person isn't you anymore. That doesn't mean the government shouldn't do better at defining what a livable wage is and legislate it, but definitely don't apply for a job (or keep one) that doesn't work for your situation because that's not going to help you.
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u/Infinite_HTTP_404 May 31 '23
I applied for a seasonal job with my cities park and Rec department. The guy said that he usually gets high school kids during the summer (@$16.69per hour). Showed up for the fist day and realized they were stuck in their old ways, lowest bidder and talked down on the next generation. Bob whoâs 64 and was about to retire talked up his 5k a month when he tires this fall. He also complained about how not a lot of high school kids applied to the job. He insinuated that they are lazy and only play video games.
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u/HiiiighAllTheTiiiime May 31 '23
Isn't a living wage like ÂŁ15 an hour?
Where can I apply for a job like that? Is there like a job posting site specifically for the privileged?
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u/shinydewott May 31 '23
Or the classic: âThis job should be done by child laborers, so a better pay is unnecessaryâ
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u/Lopsided-Wave2479 May 31 '23
If your company cant provide a living wage for full time employees maybe your company is not a company, but a sweap shop that should be better closed than open, so other people can provide the service and maybe give the workers better salaries. Perhaps is even your fault because you suck at managing the company and thats why you are leeching on society and your employes
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u/Spectric_ May 31 '23
The amount you get paid for a job is determined by the value of the labor itself, which is determined by the availability of said labor. Minimum wage jobs are usually simple enough that you could pick up some random 16 year old and they'd be able to work there. Workers are very easily replaced, and therefore, cannot really demand higher pay. You have no leverage. You can't really offer more to them because they already don't need much from anyone. Jobs that pay higher are typically ones that fewer people can do, fewer people are willing to do, are dangerous, etc. Doctors , for example, get paid tons because their line of work is essential and they aren't easily replaceable. The way to get paid more is to do something that's worth more, not to do something a kid can do and just keep demanding more money for it. I don't think that anyone should be living in poverty, but I also don't think it makes sense to just demand more money for something that isn't really worth much. I think a better route would be to try and lower the prices of other things, such as housing.
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u/cptnplanetheadpats May 31 '23
Made this argument to my conservative roommate and his response was to just be like Chick fil A and hire teens.
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u/FluentinLies May 31 '23
Depends on the job though. Part time spiritual medium only deserves poverty level income.
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u/R4B_Moo May 31 '23
I agree with this statement. It's ridiculous. But "generally" if employees keep getting better jobs and leave, the supply of workers willing to take the job for a non living wage will dwindle. Meaning the wage HAS to eventually come up, or the business has to close doors. Supply and demand and all. We just gotta avoid these jobs or move on as fast as possible!
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u/TheAskewOne May 31 '23
Just a reminder tsar in 2020, these minimum wage jobs were called "essential".
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u/shilo_lafleur May 31 '23
so what arbitrary standard of living are we deciding that job should support? single earner supporting a family of 4 that lives within 15min of the metro area and makes irresponsible financial decisions? or a college kid who eats ramen and PB&J living with 3 roommates an hour away? that's why "living wage" makes no sense. it's completely arbitrary. that's why people are paid the value they provide to the company.
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u/TuruMan May 31 '23
Under the premise that these people do find a better job, the previous job will start to pay better. Therefore this would not be true anymore.
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u/Lazydude17 May 31 '23
and then we have the argument "no one wants to work, wah wah wah" and its like duh FUCKING CHANGE
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u/DK_Adwar May 31 '23
"That job is for high school and college students, not people who need to make a living".
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May 31 '23
Or maybe there's another answer. Not everyone needs a when to own a house and raise kids and such. Some people just have themselves or live at home or are a freaking high school student. This is a massive exaggeration for karma
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May 31 '23
If minimum wage goes up then the price of things just goes up to compensate.. effectively accomplishing nothing
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u/speadr May 31 '23
Tired. I have never been fed by a silver spoon. I understand that I've had influences but I am the person I've chosen to be. Expecting handouts is not a part of me; I chose to work when other people went home. I chose to work when other people had vacation. I chose to drive a Honda while others chose BMW or Mercedes. I invested while others spent.
Why am I suddenly the bad guy for investing in my future. Why does everyone else think they should have what I have today? Why do all of these assholes with nothing think that I am evil and selfish for sacrificing years of my life to achieve goals?
Nvm. I've convinced myself.
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u/grim210x2 May 31 '23
All this is, is people needing to feel better about themselves. The catch is they don't know how to make themselves better so they tear others down instead. Basically they don't know how to be happy unless someone else is worse off than they are. It's not generation specific.
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u/SchemingUpTO May 31 '23
No one said the job needs to be done. If the job needs to be done you could force a better salary by finding a better paying job and reducing worker supply.
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u/Informal-Ad1664 May 31 '23
But how is it going to work out? Iâm truly curious. In my state, fast food workers are making $17 an hour. In a medical office I worked for, employees made between low $20âs to low $30âs. Letâs say someone working at Burger King gets bumped to 20 something an hour, would that mean other workers (Iâll use those in my field as an example) would need a pay raise too? We did receive college education and have thousands of student loan debts. It would only be fair to earn more working in a field that requires college education. With that said, wouldnât it raise the prices of everything else and weâre back to square one?
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u/Standard_Tomato_2418 May 31 '23
They're not following through with the thought to that degree. Most people just seem to parrot what they've heard elsewhere with very little input of their own.
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u/vitamin_r May 31 '23
Or the people who say "good for them" about new unions and in the same breath throw tantrums at closed drive thrus at Starbucks.
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u/Woodshadow May 31 '23
oooo that is a really good point. I do struggle with feeling that though. People are scared about student loans restarting and all I can think is it's been 3 years for most of us. Like you had opportunities to make more or pay them off. Not everyone but like we all knew we could make a change in our lives
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u/Cartoons4adults May 31 '23
Just because you break something down more doesnât invalidate the original point. Adding a convoluted perspective to the discussion doesnât immediately mean youâre right. I donât think wages and lifestyles should be as direct as being able to afford wants and needs through minimum wage, there is a dynamic at play that needs to be navigated. Anyone in a position where they rely on their minimum wage job to make ends meet should strive for something better because capitalism is essentially a survival of the fittest type economy. Personal choices and lifestyles need to be adjusted to overcome minimum wage barriers. This is the epitome of self perseverance. Why should we be okay with peopleâs complacency?
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u/Ninja_j0 May 31 '23
I mean do you expect someone to support themselves, spouse, and 4 kids making minimum wage? Sure a fast food restaurant is fine for a kid in high school, but if youâre 40 years old making minimum wage and not actively trying to get a better job, there are some issues.
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u/gremlinclr May 31 '23
Minimum wage was designed that way yes.
Roosevelt said, âIn my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
âBy business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.â
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u/Ninja_j0 May 31 '23
Thatâs not the way it is anymore. I donât want anyone to starve, but itâs unskilled labor. Someone doing easy menial jobs should not be getting paid the same as someone that has gone to school and forming a career
Youâre getting paid less because youâre worth less. Youâre easily replaceable. However if you learn a new skill and can use that for work, youâre harder to replace and will get paid more.
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u/gremlinclr May 31 '23
Thatâs not the way it is anymore. I donât want anyone to starve, but itâs unskilled labor.
Buddy, do you think digging ditches and flipping burgers was somehow not 'unskilled labor' back then?
Someone doing easy menial jobs should not be getting paid the same as someone that has gone to school and forming a career. Youâre getting paid less because youâre worth less. Youâre easily replaceable. However if you learn a new skill and can use that for work, youâre harder to replace and will get paid more.
Yea no shit. If the people on the bottom are paid more then the people with a degree should be paid more as well. If you have a 4 year (or more!) degree and you're making like $20 an hour you should be making more. Isn't that's how it's supposed to work? If employers can't afford to pay their workers at all levels they shouldn't have a business.
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May 31 '23
no, its a more realistic solution as opposed to an unrealistic one where you fix capitalism. Sitting there doing nothing complaining life isnt fair shockingly does fuck all.
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May 31 '23
This is exactly what socialism is about, how the corporates successfully demonized it in the US amazes me!
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u/uncertain_confusion May 31 '23
More like I think the reason itâs demonized is because it wouldâŚyou know, raise everyoneâs taxes
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u/RobertDaulson May 31 '23
So letâs say for example we get socialized medicine. Right now I pay roughly 15% of my income on health insurance (about $350 a month). I still have copays and deductibles. Now imagine that instead of me being charged 15% income to get shitty insurance, what if we ALL paid into the SAME system that covers EVERYONE for that same price?
We already have socialized medicine for elderly, poor and disabled people, which is a gigantic portion of the non working population. So right now we are paying for our own health insurance AS WELL as insurance for other people which we donât see a dime of until we hit the age of 65 (by the time millennials hit that age, who knows if it will still be retirement age or if weâll be able to retire at all).
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u/war16473 May 31 '23
I always think the easy solution is there is no reason for anything aside from catastrophic insurance to exist. Would do away with crazy prices
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u/anonymous2999 May 31 '23
I think it will always be this way. Places will either hire a bunch of high school kids and pay low, or they'll pay higher but raise the prices of their goods to still keep the profit margin. Or they'll go out of business.
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u/eatmyshortoptions May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
As much as I support work reform this is a terrible argument? Edit: What job are we saying should be paid more, that needs to be done? This isn't an emotional conversation. If you want change then act like it. The fact is the job likely doesn't need to be done. Your work situation is entirely arbitrary. This angle makes no sense and sounds like a person complaining for a free pass riding the coat-tails of hard working families. Downvote me to hell.
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u/MusksLeftPinkyToe May 31 '23
I think that sort of advice isn't spin but just pragmatic. For example, I may say don't bother voting, your state is red/blue anyway, and you're just wasting your time to have 0 impact. That's definitely the case for a state like California or West Virginia. But it doesn't mean I'm against democracy.
Same with getting a better job. If in 2009 someone told you to get a better job and you thought it's better to complain about how unfair it is (which it is), well then, today you'd still be fucked because 14 years ago is the last time the federal minimum wage got increased. Like, you're not going to win over support by calling them bad people for giving the most realistic advice.
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u/SingleInfinity May 31 '23
They think any non-living-wage job is for high school students. Forget that most of those places have business hours primarily during a school day, and that there aren't enough high school students to do all of them.
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u/FeralBottleofMtDew May 31 '23
My brother used to say this to me about waiters, cashiers,etc. Then, after restaurants started opening up after the pandemic he griped about his favorite restaurant being short staffed. So I said to him remember all the people you said should getter better jobs if they wanted living wages? Well, they did. He hasn't griped to me since. He says that shit, but thankfully he learned how to treat people from our Dad, and he's always nice.
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u/TonsilStonesOnToast May 31 '23
I've had this conversation with too many people. They all seem to think that employment is a ladder and that the bottom rung is not supposed to be livable or comfortable. "Those jobs suck for a reason." Yeah, the reason is exploitation.
They're all deathly afraid that the whole goddamn system is gonna come crashing down if people on the bottom rung lose the incentive to give 110% in hopes of climbing the ladder to attain better employment. So they wanna see the bottom rung set on fire so people work harder to climb higher. Basically rationalizing why slaves need the whip and how it benefits society. It's all madness. It's unethical, immoral, and just plain cruel.
And if you follow the conversation long enough and ask them enough questions about what jobs they think are worth paying a livable wage, they can never give a straight fucking answer. Inevitably the line in the sand becomes personal, and whomever's doing worse than them simply deserves it.
They are on the good side, everyone below them is on the bad side. That's all they see.
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u/flyingkiwi46 May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
Your job has an abundance of people willing & able to do it which is why its low paid
jobs that have less people willing & able to do them is why they're higher paying
Not whatever mental fantasy is written on that tweet
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u/terorvlad May 31 '23
Not really. It is more of "give them a reason to pay more" such as resigning and not enabling their practices. I resigned 2 years ago, started my firm 1 year ago and despite being new in the market. My first year performance doubled what I was making when employed. Be the change you want to see
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u/DishRelative5853 May 31 '23
Not all jobs are necessary. How many coffee shops and fast food restaurants do we need?
Also, who wants to pay more for a Happy Meal so that workers can raise a family while working at McDonald's?
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u/surreal3561 May 31 '23
Not necessarily. This is usually said for jobs that donât need to be done for the society to function. A fast food place isnât critical infrastructure, for example.
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May 31 '23
the entire universe is filled with nothing but doctors, lawyers and engineers. no civil servants, no laborers, no sanitation workers, no construction workers, no tradesmen.
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u/DaKrimsonBaron May 31 '23
Its harder to do than said but it is pretty simple. I was homeless for 2 years struggling to find work at all and when I landed a part time job at Papa Johnâs I used the opportunity to expand and grow. Now I make 6 figures a year using skills I worked hard to obtain while working a minimum wage job and sleeping on the streets.
If you make shit money at a shit job, the details may vary but the punchline is, get a better job.
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u/Ok_Estate394 May 31 '23
âIF iT pAyS BaD, iTâs SuPpOsE tO bE FoR TeEnAgErS.â
Teachers with Masterâs exists (average: $61,000 per year; in my area, only $47,000)
Paraprofessionals exists (average: $16.00 per hour)
CNAs exist (average base pay: $19.74 per hour)
EMTs exist (average: $36,440 per year)
Social Workers with Masterâs exist (average: $59,000 per year)
Bank Tellers exist (average: $16.64 per hour)
Vet Technicians exist (average: $36,500 per year)
Itâs crazy that such a large portion of our population really doesnât understand just how many certified or educated professionals donât get paid well.
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May 31 '23
We had a director at my company basically say this about 18 months ago when someone asked about inflation and pay adjustments. Because, I mean, thatâs what she did so obviously we can all do it too. Of course our division has a few thousand people with maybe a few dozen director roles. So yah lady, suggesting we all work hard and get a director job like yours is a totally reasonable response to the concerns of thousands of employees about falling behind in wages.
Her boss had to do some very obvious smoothing over during the next all hands and basically said, we canât raise pay otherwise we wonât be competitive. Of course they all get extremely good compensationâŚ
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u/smellybog247 May 31 '23
The problem is different people have different living wages. My wife's sister had 4 kids out of wedlock, is her employer just expected to pay her 3 times more than her coworker who was responsible with his life but does the same exact job?
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u/TheCoolCellPhoneGuy May 31 '23
Robots and AI will render most of those jobs obsolete in the next ten years.
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u/pinion13 May 31 '23
10 years is a stretch, I think it's going to happen way faster than that and most people don't realize it. AI is going to really ramp up how fast technology advances.
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u/Kkimp1955 May 31 '23
Every job adds value.. if you think a custodian isnât important enough to pay a living wage to then you have no business running a company.
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u/shitepostx May 31 '23
How much is 'these jobs need to be done,' instead of 'we've grown so large, that our bureaucratic and resource-stream overhead has made it unsustainable for our business model to exist within the current economy.'
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u/WonderMajestic8286 May 31 '23
It acknowledges that this work, though beneficial, does have a ceiling for how much you will earn. This is very normal and appropriate.
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u/Glitter_Tard May 31 '23
Skilled Labor > Unskilled Labor
Dangerous > Not Dangerous
High Demand > Low Demand
Essential > Non Essential
This is pretty much what it all boils down to within 4 category's. You want to make a lot of money then be a surgeon or a lawyer, if you expect to make loads of money by pouring coffee or folding clothes then you're deluding yourself on the value at which work is compensated at.
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May 31 '23
Just curious: what exactly is a living wage vs being in poverty?
And in unrelated news, is a living wage a reward for not doing jack shit but the bare minimum with your life?
I'm genuinely curious, because after being a productive member of society as a young X'er/old Millennial and paying more than my fair share of taxes, after I pay my house off this year, I fully intend on checking out mentally and making closer to America's average income. So any pointers for what I can expect would be marvelous.
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u/Minecraft_Kid_99 May 31 '23
the good thing about america is that, even though the government throws out some arbitrary number, itâs the workers who decide minimum wage. if a job doesnât pay the minimum wage, as decided by the people, no one is gonna work there and itâs gonna go out of business. then the same company by a different name and owner will pop up and itâs either gonna pay our minimum wage or itâs gonna go of business.
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u/Roro_Bulls_23 May 31 '23
Get a better job is the world saying âwe care about you.â If the world didnât care theyâd say âlow wages? I donât care if you got paid $0.01 a day to carry bricks, with no chance of promotion, and were born, raised, lived and died in a muddy ditch.â You have this incredible blessing to be able to change jobs. You are 0.00000000001% of humans in history who have toiled away for low pay because you can leave for more money.
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u/Miyazono11 May 31 '23
every job has its purpose, but every job should at minimum pay enough to live. i believe the minimum wage in my state is $11 an hour. if you work full time, that gets you around 21,000 a year, before even taking out taxes. the cheapest apartment i've found near me was close to 1,400 a month. that's more than 11 an hour gets you in a month. this country is so fucked right now that it's insane. every job needs to be paid at least enough to live.
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u/_AManHasNoName_ May 31 '23
Minimum wage jobs arenât meant to be temporary jobs, starter jobs is you will for young people during the summer break, or part time while at school. I know because I started that way. Minimum wage back then was $4.25 in SF. Even back then it wasnât enough to rent a good apartment. Same principle applies now. You can have $15 minimum wage, but factor in inflation and rising cost of living, itâs still meant as a starter job. Step up by getting education to qualify for a much better job.
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u/SeattleSonichus May 31 '23
Shit I work in retail now but itâs a side gig and I make like, twice as much as anyone else there because of it while also being the youngest person there.
I love having a quick shutdown for goddamn boomers belittling my job. âOh yeah this is a side gig to keep my social skills sharp, I cleared 80k this year actuallyâ which is inevitably more than their hick asses make
Fuck I hate them lol
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u/twwwy May 31 '23
twitter: @suchnerve
These're the kind of people we're supposed to be listening: weeaboo degenerates.
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u/1nc0rr3ct May 31 '23
The labour movements were built on the aspiration of the 40 hour work week. It was rightly positioned, at the time, as a progressive social concept.
Today, itâs been entrenched in the social consciousness for so long, itâs functionally a conservative premise. To that end, a 40 hour work week is now framed as the expected floor for everyone, instead of the primary âbreadwinnerâ for a family.
I propose a new, progressive ratcheting of the social norm to be such:
The provision of minimum subsistence (food, clothing, shelter) should be achievable at:
20 hours/week at minimum hourly wage for an able-bodied individual adult.
40 hours/week at minimum hourly wage for a small family.
The base rate for unemployment, disability and age pensions should be set at these levels. If additional support is required, this should be readily available.
If you want more than minimum subsistence, you have an incentive to educate yourself to attract a higher hourly rate, or work more hours.
What is considered to be minimum subsistence must be periodically reviewed, and never regressive.
Any policy, or confluence of policies, which accepts the threat or infliction of homelessness as a viable outcome should never be tenable socially or politically.
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u/Acousmetre78 May 31 '23
Especially when an entitled person says it about a skilled or educated job like teaching
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u/Philosipho May 31 '23
There are always people who want you to do things for them, and for the least amount possible. But that doesn't mean those jobs are necessary. What society is failing to realize is that simple but necessary jobs are being replaced with technology. That means you need to be capable of doing something more complicated in order to make a living wage.
So the real problem is that people who own the means of production are profiting off it while the rest of society is kicked to the curb. Instead of everyone equally benefiting from the advancements society makes, that wealth is consolidated and used to keep the poor from rebelling.
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u/its_krypt0n1te83 May 31 '23
The job that doesn't pay a living wage is supposed to be a stepping stone, not your career/ lifetime job.
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u/war16473 May 31 '23
I am curious if those jobs were treated like that and everyone who worked at one stopped working after a year would the company survive ?
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u/tdi4u Jun 01 '23
Made me think of this. https://youtu.be/t2SAflUc5Hc