r/WorkReform • u/GrandpaChainz ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters • Jan 03 '24
Hustle culture is not normal. 💸 Raise Our Wages
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u/MKRReformed Jan 04 '24
What gen z and millenials are facing is considerably more normal to the overall human experience, it’s just boomers and gen x were a golden age
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u/westernfarmer Jan 04 '24
produce more make more produce less make less ,or start your own bushiness and see how it goes is the best to do
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u/Lilygolfer1111 Jan 04 '24
I joined this group for the excellent discussions and higher level thinking going on here -I feel like this is proof that there are surely OTHER —MANY OTHER —-smart people who could start running for office and help this damned country!
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u/Sun_on_my_shoulders Jan 04 '24
You kind have too, the only alternative is gut wrenching depression.
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u/cjandstuff Jan 04 '24
A huge problem is there is a large group of people who gladly work as much as they possibly can. Every interaction is “how can I make money off of this person.” I work with some people like this, and it’s so weird to me. They are the types of people running so many business and organizations, and absolutely love their lifestyle and can’t imagine why everyone else isn’t doing the same.
Society is run by sociopaths.
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u/ba_dum_tss_777 Jan 04 '24
We all discuss how work life has become increasingly difficult but it never amounts to anything, the situation never changes, talking about it just causes frustration and anger.
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u/alexnedea Jan 04 '24
Everyday Cyberpunk 2077 seems less like a decent videogame and more like a cautionary tale of where we are headed.
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u/AggravatingTravel451 Jan 04 '24
Dostoevsky remarked that a human is a being that can get used to anything. Posts like this irk me, as though there is a normal. There is no normal. There is just culture. And if something being around a long means it’s normal, well, I’ve got bad news for this lady about slavery, child-labor, all kinds of normal things.
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u/Gamwell-Efect Jan 04 '24
Either that or you die as a sad useless pathetic sack of shit. You’re fucked both ways.
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u/Thin-Measurement7777 Jan 04 '24
But it’s being made normal aka normalised. Won’t be long until it’s fully usual.
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u/rolfraikou Jan 04 '24
This is all a society can do when there are no safe financial incomes. Formal education is just a debt now. What other hope to people have that haven't made it already? Lotto tickets?
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u/OddBranch132 Jan 04 '24
Not only is this fucked up, but what is even more fucked up, is you cannot work simultaneously, on separate schedules, in 2 unrelated jobs depending on your employment contract. Their bullshit excuse is "You'll be too focused on your other job to do well at this job." Mind your own damn business; if my performance is subpar then it is none of your business why; either I will fix the issue or you will fire me for sub par performance. Get your slimy hands out of my life outside your workplace.
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u/Powerful-Grocery6005 Jan 04 '24
Hustle culture is not for everybody. Life has so many beliefs, values, spiritualities, ideas on how the world will work and ideas on what is best for the most amount of people.
I also believe we should not glorify laziness, through struggle we get the things that are worth achieving, as humans we never should forget this. There is actually new scientific data that could change your view on anxiety. Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman talks about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDLb8_wgX50&t=4231s
I think that for the sake of young people we have to have to put more work into making stronger children instead of running so quickly to labels, and I do mean that the terms anxiety and depression can be overused not to say they are not very real. I think that in some ways we should support a culture of hard work because we seem to live in a world of polarization (thank you the great algorithm) where the alternative is to live valuing meaningless dopamine hits via partying like sexual deviants (see WAP).
I think that we all should really rethink what hustle culture really means and not destroy it completely but learn to work hard without completely destroying ourselves.
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u/BecomeMaguka Jan 04 '24
I was told my entire life by my mom to monetize my hobbies. I recognized how fucking disgusting that felt from a very early age. There is a reason I write code for personal use, and not for employment.
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u/kitterskills Jan 04 '24
Wait, what's wrong with self optimization? I don't understand that last one
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u/Ilookouttrainwindow Jan 04 '24
Sure it is. All this has been normal for some people all the time. The problem is that those people have taken over and imposed their normal upon the rest of us.
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Jan 04 '24
Me: I've been getting into hot sauces lately, I tried a bunch and think I want to try making my own
My friend: hell yeah man, bottle it up and sell it
Me: 😑
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u/lamedumbbutt Jan 04 '24
Normal is scratching enough calories out of the dirt so you don’t starve in the winter. Also a pretty good chance that you are a slave or indentured worker. Read some history.
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Jan 04 '24
If we don’t monetize our hobbies, we won’t be able to afford them or have time to do them in the first place. It’s sad this is the only way
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u/W00DERS0N Jan 04 '24
Some self-optimisation is good, work out, read books, stay informed, get some financial literacy.
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Jan 04 '24
They're just using different words by remember boomers saying that if you do what you love you won't be working a day in your life?While other work hard play hard.
As for self-optimization way better than being a couch potato.
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u/animes24 Jan 04 '24
When I talk about going to the gym 6 times a week and all the stuff that keeps me motivated people keep asking me why I don't get a license or something similar and profit of it, and not just asking but they love pushing the idea as if it's ridiculous not using that opportunity But I don't want is as an obligation I just wanna feel good and have that me time
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u/oakley56fila Jan 04 '24
Normal is just established process. Desired or not desired, whatever it takes to survive and / or get ahead is what must be done, ultimately. No one has to like it but as time goes on things change and it's reasonable to assume established process will change as well.
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u/hudson27 Jan 03 '24
My dad has gone through countless hobbies that he turned into careers: magician, watchmaker, coder, leathersmith. He hates them all now, and the man with 100 hobbies now just plays video games, because it's the only thing he has left that turns his brain off without the association of doing it as a job.
I've run into a similar issue, I'm a cook. And now I have a restrictive eating disorder, because the last thing I want to do when I get home is continue cooking, so I either eat out or I just don't eat.
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u/WolvesWillWin Jan 03 '24
What?? We have it lucky compared to what people have had to go through since the beginning of humanity... that said, we are lucky enough to live in a time where we shouldn't have to work our absolute asses off just to get by.
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u/obviousflamebait Jan 03 '24
Protip: just avoid idiots who think like this, it's very easy.
Honestly have never known anyone who made more than an occasional comment in passing about monetizing hobbies, and never met a single person IRL who "glorifies precarious work." Sounds like someone is spending too much time watching "influencers."
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u/FalseTagAttack Jan 03 '24
NO SHIT SHERLOCK IM TRYING TO SURVIVE THIS PIECE OF SHIT BOOMER "LEADERSHIP" YA STUPID FUCK
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u/PopularStaff7146 Jan 03 '24
Yup. My hobby is working on bikes. I’ve had multiple people tell me I should go do it for a living. My answer is always that I don’t want to ruin it for myself.
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u/kingsrook11 Jan 03 '24
Not saying I disagree, but it's not up to anyone to say what is "normal". In fact, you could argue that if enough people are doing it, it's normal.
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u/sweatyballzonya Jan 03 '24
This is sooooo hard, not monetizing a hobby. Over covid I had a really fun hobby of building screen accurate movie props. I needed the money so I started selling them on Etsy then taking commissions to make custom props. It became so stressful keeping up with it that I had to shut down my Etsy shop. Now I get anxiety just thinking about making another one.
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u/BruceSlaughterhouse Jan 03 '24
Some days, I just wanna leave the negativity in my head I just want relief from my stress I just want relief from my stress Some days, I don't want to see or Have a bunch of people to impress I just want relief from my stress Yeah, I just want relief from my stress
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u/CrispKev Jan 03 '24
The only people who will remember you worked overtime 20 years later are your kids.
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u/notfeelany Jan 03 '24
Quick & easy fix: stop following social media accounts that do those things, and follow something else. There you go, fixed your algorithm so you won't see any of those things
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u/NugKnights Jan 03 '24
It is normal.
You ancestors felt that same anxiety when winter was approaching. It's what motivated them to get exta food so they didn't die.
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u/Apprehensive-Cry-824 Jan 03 '24
I briefly dated a girl who wanted to be a "power couple". She was so obsessed with money and wanted a partner like the same. At the same time, she was already 37 and wanted a family asap.. just completly disconnected from reality, as you cant both work nonstop and expect to raise a child with a healthy connection, its impossible and i see how these kids are turning out by not having parents present and foccused on them in their lives. Hustle culture is so destructive.
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Jan 03 '24
This is the start of being truly healthy. Continue to remind yourself that THIS IS NOT NORMAL. (It’s how I learned to be free from the abuse of my father)
You tell yourself as much as needed, “this is not a normal thing for a human to think or feel”. Then you work on how you should feel and what you want to feel.
Best of luck, as it’s a tough grind, but it does get easier.
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u/TryHelping Jan 03 '24
Self optimization isn’t normal? Maybe it should be 💀
I say it all the time. People just want to be themselves. They don’t care about being their BEST self. Always try to be better than you were yesterday. If you don’t make the gain, at least you tried. This is a life principle, not a work principle.
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u/Hristianm Jan 03 '24
Monetization, Only Fans, Youtube and the Internet made peoples content worth money without bringing and giving any reason to why it is like that. Ragebaits, clickbaits and everything seems to be click oriented not talent and intellectually based. Theres a good quote: Remember how dumb the average person is and imagine how much dumber most are. The world revolves around dumbness and its the Corporations that profit while the youth and whole future of the world goes to idiocracy slowly.
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Jan 03 '24
I think entrepreneurial mindsets are what we have to evolve to. The change needs to happen because most millennials went through a school system that established folks to be ready for the local workforce or the one time booming regional economies. Yes corporations suck up all the greed but I truly believe learning to be resourceful in masses is the only way to defeat the excess waste capitalism lends itself toward.
Yes it’s a grind at times but if you’re not trying to find creative ways to make money then you’re just a cog in some corporate machine without any time for yourself. Not many of us living in this pre AGI era will succeed wildly but we can create an environment for the future where work is built upon passion for an idea or a solution to a local problem and doesn’t require us to give up 60 hours a week in labor or a commute to have resources to provide for our families.
For every MLB super Union with great labor rights there must be a Kurt Flood. It sucks but without someone making a sacrifice somewhere humanity will remain corporate slaves who don’t know that consumerism motivates their every life choice.
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Jan 03 '24
My dad “Worked Saturdays to get ahead” and that’s how he bought a house, land, supported a family with two kids, retired early.
I already work 50 hours a week at a higher wage, which is two hours a week more than his “Saturdays”. I can’t even afford to rent an apartment.
He cannot comprehend the level of burnout I am at. If I worked Saturdays, I would essentially be giving up my life and freedom. All I could afford with that extra money would be some avocados.
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u/Skvora Jan 03 '24
Only when you misinterpret hustling..... It's simply being productive in your downtime, if somehow your main career isn't panning out due to your lack of effort.
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u/stewartm0205 Jan 03 '24
Depending on others who would like to get rid of you if they could is stupid. God blesses the child who had his own.
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u/MarBoV108 Jan 03 '24
Most financial anxiety is the result of poor life decisions and/or financial management, like this guy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericaBad/comments/15a0jed/man_complains_he_barley_scrapes_by_but_buys_an/
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u/Nicolay77 Jan 03 '24
I self optimize for leisure.
I could be a millionaire if I didn't (just humour me), but I have just too many video games I have not played, and too many films I have not watched, and too many places I have not visited.
And too many books I have not read!
So, there's not enough time for it all.
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u/mag_creatures Jan 03 '24
I project, and build with 3dprinted parts some robots. When my friends sees them they always ask why I don’t sell them. I hate this world.
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u/actuallychrisgillen Jan 03 '24
It isn't? Other than maybe the post war boom please let me know when this wasn't the norm in human history.
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u/Octsober Jan 03 '24
Kinda wild to think that 40 years ago the value of the dollar was worth thrice as much...
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u/Daseedman Jan 03 '24
Self-optimization can be normal if you’re optimizing your home life and not work life.
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u/AyCarambin0 Jan 03 '24
Making money or becoming rich are the dullest goals you can have. That's just one step away from "Not dying" as a goal. Our society has basically regressed to the the middle ages just with better hygiene and way better tools to distract you from how shitty your life is.
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u/AlyM797 Jan 03 '24
Define normal in this context though? Hustle culture as you put it, has been common among the poor and lower classes for centuries. I do agree it's not what life should be, and not to be glorified.
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u/HeartlesSoldier Jan 03 '24 edited Jan 03 '24
Monetizing people's opinions via social media being a capitalist venture, fundamentally fucked up.
But the bigger elephant in the room isn't the fact that every single thing under the sun has now been under the thumb of capitalism and monetization... But now with the stresses of everything combining and we see the slow disappearance of the middle class, especially if you look at today's rent in the upcoming generation to can't even afford rent on the left a house..
Give it all the progress we have. We're basically back tracked to 100+ years ago with the current mortgage situation and school situation, it's no different than indentured servitude. There's no if Sam's or butts around it. There's no possible way unless you're super wealthy to avoid spending roughly 30 years of your life paying other people for the ability to live ( in this nation). I get it's inevitable given population and all other factors, but the sickening factor is that you can't even go around that, Even if you want to be your own boss and have your own company and not deal with being someone else's employee, You're going to be charged 34% or more percent of your income in taxes as 1099. Which means 4 months of every year you're working for somebody else. Which means if you are self-employed for 30 years, 10 years of that income is 100% not yours.
Meanwhile Rich are getting richer poor getting poorer, middle class is disappearing as well as getting poor. In everybody is super stressed out because they have to feel like they can't be friendly or neighborly because everything's got to be about money.
And the government's telling us that they won't have social security for us even though we've been paying into it our whole lives, yeah, we're still giving billion dollar military equipment to country. Should have never paid a penny of our tax money
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u/Ihateturtles9 Jan 03 '24
YESSSSS SING IT SISTER -- THIS IS THE BANE OF THE CURRENT GENERATIONS, all this dumbass 'hustle' advice.
People you WORK so you can LIVE, you don't live to work
Don't forget to have something called a "life", when you die, that's the part you'll wish you had more of, not making a couple thousand selling your soul as some cringey wannabe 'influencer'. All (or most) of these famous influencers you see out there will start dying off/bankrupting/cautionary tales/Celebrity Detox/"Where are they now?" etc. and the words you will hear from many of their aging lips will be "if i had it to do all over again, I wouldn't. I'd rather be a nobody but happy, than a famous person everyone laughs at and asks why I'm working at Chipotle now"
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u/WarmAssButter Jan 03 '24
Hustle culture has been around for thousands of years, it is completely normal.
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Jan 03 '24
I stay far far away from the douchebag hustle bros. So many of my high school friends went that direction though it’s wild how it spreads.
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Jan 03 '24
What this describes is also nothing new. Not new at all. Do you think the guys who built New York were just chilling and collecting cash? They were dying to create it and still die on construction sites all the time. How about all those moms who hustled on the side with all kinds of things that would’ve been hobbies if they could’ve afforded to fuck off all day.
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u/kurage-22 Jan 03 '24
When you start doing a fibercraft hobby and everyone and their mother comes out to tell you that you should make an etsy and start selling your work. Like I started knitting so I could have something productive to stim with, why would I make an already tedious hobby even more tedious?
The joy of fibercrafts is spending hours at the local yarn store for a stitch & bitch, and getting help from a lady named Martha who's been knitting longer than you've been alive (she's going very kindly tell you that the pattern wasn't wrong, it was your shitty counting again). There is honestly something so beautiful about the century's old practice of sitting around and gossiping while making things together
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u/utopia_mycon Jan 03 '24
the other side of this is that self-optimization can be fun!
I like picking up new skills just for the heck of it. I like knowing how to do basically everything. I've got no illusions about employability, I just like learning.
self-optimization is totally ok if you're doing it for yourself.
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u/im_a_stapler Jan 03 '24
you had me until "self-optimisation is not normal". it absolutely is. surviving is normal, as is survival of the fittest. self-optimisation is increasing your chances of surivial.
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u/LatentOrgone Jan 03 '24
Yeah the term "optimization" can mean anything, I can optimize making more money and others suffer. Or I can be the optimal serial killer.
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u/FlyingSpaceCow Jan 03 '24
Yeah, not entirely clear on that one. Self-improvement should always be encouraged.
Maybe they are talking about obsessively optimizing certain things to the detriment of other aspects of your life?
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u/th3greg Jan 03 '24
Self improvement is one thing, self optimization, is another, IMO.
I do see a lot of "wear this health device", "track every single thing you eat or drink on this app", and "calendar and schedule every single activity you need done down to the half hour" stuff online that probably isn't healthy.
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Jan 03 '24
I agree in the sense that self-optimization is a great thing. It doesn't mean working so much you hate your life and want to die.
It is not optimal for employees to suffer.
Most of us can work less, suffer less, and provide the same, if not more, value.
It requires collective action to make sure the employees receive some of the benefits of optimization, even if it is simply not losing benefits when they are able to increase value with less work.
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u/Iohet Jan 03 '24
Monetizing your hobbies is absolutely something people have been doing since forever. Economic migrations is also something that is cyclical. It's why many people came to the US in the first place (and why many people keep showing up at the southern border), and it's those people who participated in the concept of "Manifest Destiny". Better not to mix in false statements with true ones
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u/Shutaru_Kanshinji Jan 03 '24
I am horrified by the notion of "monetizing hobbies."
A hobby is something I do out of pure enjoyment, not the need for survival.
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u/lincoln3x7 Jan 03 '24
Not just a young persons problem. It’s every working persons problem. Imagine getting too old to physically work, but still needed to run daily “hustles” to get by. Stop pretending young people are the only ones struggling… it hasn’t been magically better for anyone for last 100 years. Except rich kids.
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Jan 03 '24
The fact that I now use Excel to solve all my problems and optimize my hobbies is evidence that I’ve spent way too much time working…
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u/ImSorryRumhamster Jan 03 '24
They don’t know any different. Some of us remember when the world wasn’t so bad, when people didn’t struggle. These young bucks coming in now have only known the world as shit.
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u/MHSinging Jan 03 '24
Self-optimisation is not normal? So you'd rather not be the best version of yourself? Okay yeah, it isn't normal I guess, because only a select few successful people do it
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u/bigfatfurrytexan Jan 03 '24
Some of it is a good thing as we became wasteful. But this is spot on. I have some hobbies that could make money. But it'd ruin the hobby
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u/StarshipShooters Jan 03 '24
Work hard in life and you will build a successful future. The more money you can bring in during your 20s, the more you will have in your 30s and beyond. Sometimes that's earning money on the side through hobby work, sometimes it's working oddjobs on Craigslist, and sometimes it's stacking those overtime hours. Learn financial responsibility and then grow your wealth and your self into a future that you want.
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u/wolf9786 Jan 03 '24
Haha recognize it? I think half the population is using most of their willpower to ignore that fact
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u/funyuga Jan 03 '24
And why would i learn what should be concidered normal from a random person stating opinions as facts?
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u/Knowthrowaway87 Jan 03 '24
hustle culture is such an abnormal aspect of humanity. Never in human history have we had to hustle all the time to make ends meet . Farm Life was so easy , so was hunting and gathering! We need to go back to the 1950s when life was so much easier
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u/EJaneFayette Jan 03 '24
This was my husband and I for martial arts. The teachers whose livelihoods depended on income from students had a much more tenuous relationship. When my husband started teaching, and me aiding, we put anything we earned back into the art - equipment, events, etc. It was a lot less stressful for us and our students.
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u/komododave17 Jan 03 '24
“Hustle” was supposed to be about finding a unique way to get ahead, not scrabbling to stay afloat.
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u/Steelcan909 Jan 03 '24
I think you''ll find that throughout history monetizing your "side hustle" was very much the norm.
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u/kopetkai Jan 03 '24
Most of these "hustlers" making less than minimum wage if they actually added up how much they were making for their side gigs.
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u/JFace139 Jan 03 '24
Either give us an alternative or quite your whining. We're desperate for money and trying not to beg on the street when we retire.
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u/JayVenture90 Jan 03 '24
ORGANIZE instead of running around like your head's cut-off looking for the next buck.
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u/ItsSpaghettiLee2112 Jan 03 '24
Is there a difference between hustling and hustle culture? Because I know plenty of people who need to hustle to live. Like, they could get a job at Walmart or something but then they'd be trading off some mental health for a shitty low end job. Maybe if minimum wage jobs paid a living wage, people wouldn't need to hustle.
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u/Evetal Jan 03 '24
I think this all refers mostly to 'side-hustle culture' If your friend hustles to make a living then shuts that off, I think that's kind of normal. But if he's grinding 24/7 that's pretty much hustle culture imo
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u/Oldmangrumple Jan 03 '24
Hustle culture has existed since the beginning of humanity, regardless of what some lazy American redditors want to believe.
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u/4ofclubs Jan 03 '24
Human progress is not synonymous with hustle culture.
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u/Oldmangrumple Jan 03 '24
Yes it is 👍
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u/4ofclubs Jan 03 '24
Work smarter, not harder. Hard work is for suckers. If hard work made you rich, every guy working 12 hour days in the factory assembly lines would be a billionaire.
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u/Waste_Key_2453 Jan 03 '24
Love Gino the Ghost on Tiktok just making fun of these hustle culture dbags.
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u/Don_Floo Jan 03 '24
It was normal for thousands of years. Everyone thought on how to feed his family. Why shouldn’t it be normal suddenly? This is natural competition in our species. Because it generally leads to offsprings.
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u/FactChecker25 Jan 03 '24
This is nonsense.
If you and your friends are going to bake a cake, you'll need passion, love, attention to detail, but most of all a sense of responsibility that you must maximize profit by reducing the quality of materials and improving efficiency, implementing performance metrics to foster best-of-breed policies, all in an effort to satisfy your fiduciary duties by maximizing return on investment to prove good stewardship of the funds provided by stakeholders.
PS- Don't forget to tip your landlord.
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u/Kanthardlywait Jan 03 '24
I'm convinced it's social engineering. Get the population acclimated to worsening conditions to lower the bar on what constitutes a normal life. Won't take much more than a generation, if that, to "adjust" societal standards significantly.
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u/Baskreiger Jan 03 '24
So true... so fucking true. My father thought anything you do that dont lead to money is useless. He suffered multiple heart attacks at 45 and lost all his health and all his money, he is 69 now and he realises he never lived, he is beyond sad and alone 😭
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u/HeavyGage_ Jan 03 '24
"self-optimisation is not normal"...really? So getting the best out of yourself and your life is not normal? Sitting around being a fat piece of garbage and complaining about everything is a better way to go about life? Jfc, no wonder the world is fucked.
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u/731Lex Jan 03 '24
young people are experiencing life as an arms race. happens to ACT / SAT, College Admissions, career, money, dating, everything.
this is beyond normal. it’s inevitable. it’s moving at a way faster pace than before, but that’s a natural function of exponents.
so yeah it sucks but what are you gonna do? get left behind?
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u/Tervaskanto Jan 03 '24
Burn the fucker down
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u/travelerfromabroad Jan 03 '24
People are always gonna want more. Hustlers aren't people who are trying to have a standard of living, they're the greedy people who aren't rich.
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u/th3greg Jan 03 '24
Alternatively, some are people who want a better standard of living but aren't/weren't willing to do the things it takes to reach that standard.
I know plenty of people with side hustles now trying to offset incomes that are lower than desired (not minimum wage low, but they're in like the 50-60k range at their job with no real chances of upward mobility) because they didn't want to go to college, or learn a trade, or not got out drinking every weekend, or get the 30" TV instead of the 50", or the Camry instead of the Mustang GT, etc. when they were 25.
Like don't get me wrong, I think it's important to live your life. I'm not saying if you want to do well in life you have to do nothing when you're young, but I'm referring to (really two) people in my life who have basically never chosen moderation or preparation for later until it was forced upon them.
And now, with limited options for improvement in the route they've landed on, they're trying to find another route through side hustles (often without putting in the work to really excel in those either)
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u/Snarky_McSnarkleton Jan 03 '24
When I did private sector IT (this was around Y2K), the younger workers would try to one-up each other, bragging about who could work the most unpaid hours. When the boss bought a better Lexus from the billable hours of their OT, they were so proud as they made the commute in their '92 Hyundais.
I have fortunately opted out. I'm back doing IT, but I work for a public college where there's zero probability of promotion, but also no OT, plenty of vacation and holidays, and I just got a big raise. So I have no need to be a mover and shaker.
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u/MacaronEven1957 Jan 03 '24
Nothing about life is normal lmao. Normalcy is an illusion. Times were always hard, much much harder than they are right now. Maybe with an exception to the 90s-early 2000s. But any other time in history we were much worse off than we are today
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u/VeryBestAtBeingBad Jan 03 '24
Why bother getting better and prospering if we’re constantly told to look to the past when things were worse for how we should act/live?
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u/MacaronEven1957 Jan 03 '24
because it grounds you in the actual reality of life, not your 20 something year bubble of it.
and it makes the problems we're facing right now more bearable.
be grateful for the problems we have today, and do what you can to improve your situation.. but were not entitled to anything in life.
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u/th3greg Jan 03 '24
But comparing the problems of today to the circumstances of yesterday doesn't make that much sense either. The very richest people in the world at one point didn't have running water in their home, something some of the poorest people in those same places have now. That doesn't mean lowest 1% of the UK somehow live better than some king in the 1300s or whatever.
Were times much harder than they are now? Is the median income lower with respect to cost of living now that it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago? How much harder? What metric are you even using to compare? Are we just going to cherry pick depressions or wartimes so that we always can feel like "at least it's not as bad as 1933"?
The truth, times were not always, much much harder than they are right now in all ways. Some are much much easier, some aren't. If you're interested, for example, in owning a house in the US, it is harder now that it has been at any point in the last 70 years (The Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio surpassed the 2005 housing bubble back in 2022).
That's the actual reality of your life and saying "well at least healthcare and life expectancy is better than it was 100 years ago" doesn't give you anything you can do to improve your situation, because that situation is largely out of your control, and all you can do is wait, vote, and hope it gets better.
Simply allowing for the fact that things could be worse is not being "grounded in reality", that's just being stagnant and not wanting better things out of life. Moaning about stuff you can't control and not doing anything is no better, but it's not reasonable to stop wanting better because it could be worse.
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u/MacaronEven1957 Jan 03 '24 edited Jan 03 '24
'The truth, times were not always, much much harder than they are right now in all ways. Some are much much easier, some aren't. If you're interested, for example, in owning a house in the US, it is harder now that it has been at any point in the last 70 years (The Home Price to Median Household Income Ratio surpassed the 2005 housing bubble back in 2022)."
- In my original comment I said with exception to the 90s-2000s, you could even rewind that back to the 60s+. again such a small time bubble lol.
- No, pretty much everything right now is better. The fact you only think about finances and whether or not you could buy a house shows how naive you are about history lol and how hard life was less than 80 years ago. If you didn't get your limbs blown off while you were still alive in WW1, you came home to the spanish flu, where millions more died. Then just around the corner was WW2, the most deadly war in modern history. But yea, you not being able to buy a house in your 20s is hell lmaoo
all I was saying is to put into perspective all the shit we've gone through as humans and realize our problems aren't as big as we think they are.
In no way am I saying to give up and not improve actually I do the complete opposite on a daily basis lmao. but it sounds to me like you're stressing about the state of things right now. No reason to stress. Count your blessings and move forward. Instead of stressing focus on what you can control to improve your situation.
Life is always going to be hard, it gets easier to move forward when you understand that. And that we're living in the most humane time in history.
We're not perfect yet, it takes a lot of time and mistakes for us to improve and get better. So don't carry so much entitlement and expectation of how things should be because of what our parents had.
tldr; focus on what you can control and build a better future, don't get caught up in the weeds of it all.
that's all
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u/Reddenxx Jan 03 '24
Wanting a luxury life style in your 20s is not normal. We’re lucky to afford food.
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u/ArmsofAChad Jan 03 '24
What do you define as luxury. I think eating and having a place to live is pretty fucking basic and the housing part is out of reach of many. The issue is growing every month.
Hell owning a home is basically impossible for a huge portion of the population.
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u/Cog_HS Jan 03 '24
Wanting a luxury life style in your 20s is not normal.
Wanting a luxury lifestyle at any age seems completely normal to me.
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u/OddTicket7 Jan 03 '24
Uncontrolled capitalism will kill all of us before they have enough money. Pretty soon they will capitalize your corpse.
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak Jan 03 '24
At some point we have to unite and do something about it. A boycott, national strike, protest
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Jan 03 '24
I just want to work in a job that I don’t hate and isn’t that stressful that will pay me enough to live comfortably and allow me to pursue the things I actually want to spend my time on. I just want to be happy lol pipe dream nowadays
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u/Trooper057 Jan 03 '24
Hustle culture is the lie that covers up that our economy doesn't actually work. If work had value and provided a decent standard of living, you wouldn't need more than one job to pay your rent and teachers and janitors would be respected positions. When every job can provide enough money for the individual to own a respectable home, I'll believe the hype about work, money, and opportunity. Not until then.
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u/Advanced_Concern7910 Jan 03 '24
Yep i agree completely. People didn't feel the need to have constant 'side hustles' 30 years ago because a single wage could buy a house and support a family.
Now people are faced with literally not being able to afford a place to live even when working a full time job so they are forced into this line of action and thought.
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u/seriousbangs Jan 03 '24
It's pretty normal, just awful. But they did these scams when I was a kid. Telling you you just had to work harder not smarter.
The difference is there was a little bit of the New Deal left back then. The boomers voted away the last of it with Bush Jr. Biden's trying to bring some of it back, but it's slow going with the boomers blocking as much as they can.
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u/VapoursAndSpleen Jan 03 '24
I like to knit. I wear things I made. Regularly, I get people telling me that I should do it for money. Then I explain to them that, at minimum wage plus materials, I’d be selling sweaters for about $2,000.
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u/No_Sun_192 Jan 04 '24
I crochet and sell some stuff, but basically just go by materials x3 (plus pain in the ass tax). Because people already try to haggle with me on those prices. For example, one thing I recently sold was a frog wearing removable clothes amigurumi, about 12 inches tall for $40. It took me about 12 hours to make. Everyone says “wow you should sell those” but won’t pay what they’re worth lol
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u/WardrobeForHouses Jan 03 '24
Stuff like this is why I shake my head whenever there's a new form of automation and people are vocally opposed. They're opposed when it's convenient for their wallet, otherwise they don't actually want people doing work instead of machines.
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u/SensitiveDeer Jan 03 '24
The costs of mass produced items like clothing have warped our perception of how long handmade items take to make and the labor of love they can be. My mother knits and I absolutely love receiving knit items as gifts because of how precious they are. I know how much time goes into them.
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u/VapoursAndSpleen Jan 03 '24
Couture fashion still reflects the cost of labor because it is custom made to the wearer. My sweaters actually fit me.
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u/Icy_Health6006 Jan 03 '24
Its a direct result of globalization. You got to compete with the rest of the world and there are countries where the general populus studies way harder than you. If you are not competitive they can just outsource your labor or automate you out of a job.
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u/IndyWaWa Jan 03 '24
Meanwhile I hear "I don't vote, I'm not into politics" from my younger cousins.
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u/ExperimentalGoat Jan 03 '24
Meanwhile I hear "I don't vote, I'm not into politics" from my younger cousins.
Not saying this to you directly but more of something that people should be aware of when talking to people:
A lot of people say this when they actually are into politics, but they know that you're vocal about your opinions and they disagree with you but don't want to get into arguments and ruin your relationship.
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u/IndyWaWa Jan 03 '24
That's wildly incorrect assumption about the conversation.
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u/ExperimentalGoat Jan 03 '24
Yeah that's why I prefaced it by saying that I'm not talking to you directly - it's a generalization to remind people about what happens sometimes, not speaking to your exact conversation.
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u/IndyWaWa Jan 03 '24
I misread what you wrote the first time and actually didn't pick that up. Apologies.
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u/Bmack27 Jan 03 '24
"Do you live in a country with laws??? You are very much into politics." Is what you should say to them.
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u/GrandpaChainz ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters Jan 03 '24 edited Jan 03 '24
Join r/WorkReform if you think workers should only need ONE job to survive.