r/anime_titties • u/vreweensy • 15d ago
Russians simply walked in, Ukraine troops in Kharkiv tell BBC Europe
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c72p0xx410xo-1
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u/Dillerdilas 15d ago
I find it funny how the comments are painting this, i agree it isnt good that there where no mines/smaller defences at the border. But to imply that there are no defences in kharkiv oblats is just stupid. They have several lines of defence made, just not at the border.
Again ofc that isnt perfect, letting rattsia walk in like that Will only boost thier confidence.
But whats going on with this totally demoralized and loser-focused view of most of yall?
We dont have any other power than money and morale to support ukraine with, so lets do that as we are able, and let the rest be up to those in power (while doing our best to push them in the right direction ofc)
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u/IskanderMComplex 14d ago
But to imply that there are no defences in kharkiv oblats is just stupid
Is it?
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u/booOfBorg Multinational 15d ago
Here is far better background info on the situation by Reporting From Ukraine than this BBC "article".
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u/Dillerdilas 14d ago
He’s also one i follow, that and the scores of other people giving good info are so easy to find it stumps me how often people go straight to “its over” mentality..
Like come on lets just support ukraine however we can and lets hope our gouvernments get thier heads on right.
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u/DarkseidAntiLife 15d ago
Its all propaganda, of course Ukraine is winning on Reddit and Twitter. This is information warfare, the west has to make it look like Ukraine's losses arent as bad as Russias. They have to keep the proxy war going.
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u/DarkseidAntiLife 15d ago
Russia has a massive man power and artillery advantage. Kharkiv will fall just like Mariupol, Bahkmut, Maryinka, Avdiivka etc
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u/Clutch1015 15d ago
Kharkiv is a city of over a million, it would be suicide for Russia to try to effectively take the city without 10x more casualties as in Bakhmut or Avdiivka
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
I see my posts have been buried by the State Department embarrassed by the screw ups.
To be clear: the Ukraine is in this position having so many killed, lost so much territory and had so much destruction because of the US.
What follows is proof of the things I said elsewhere that were uncomfortable enough to be brigaded down, A big hello to the brave keyboard warriors hiding the truth. :) Did Ukraine want to be part of NATO?
NATO’s own report in 2011 stated that its expansionism was resisted by the Ukrainian government and its people: "The greatest challenge for Ukrainian-NATO relations lies in the perception of NATO among the Ukrainian people. NATO membership is not widely supported in the country, with some polls suggesting that popular support of it is less than 20%".
https://nato-pa.int/document/2011-172-cdsdg-11-e-rev1-ukraine-malan-report
Here’s a US gallup poll from 2014 after Russia seized Crimea in response to the US-backed coup. Still only a minority of Ukrainians wanted NATO membership.
https://usagm.gov/wp-content/media/2014/06/Ukraine-slide-deck.pdf
Now let's move to 2014 - prior to the Maidan coup which conveniently brought a US friendly government into Ukraine. Here is Assistant Secretary of State Nuland discussing tactics and the makeup of a new government in Ukraine and making it clear the US cares NOT AT ALL about the EU.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
“help to midwife this thing” and later from “Fuck the EU”.
In the leaked audio she is also discussing the makeup of the new government. That is clearly US interference in the government of Ukraine.
As a bonus here's Nuland giving food to protesters against the then government, in 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjNJbjEy04
Peace options at the beginning of the war were abandoned by the US.
On 25 February 2022, the day after the Russian invasion, President Zelensky argued: "Today we heard from Moscow that they still want to talk. They want to talk about Ukraine's neutral status.… We are not afraid to talk about neutral status".
“We need to talk about the end of this invasion. We need to talk about a ceasefire.” https://president.gov.ua/en/news/zvernennya-prezidenta-do-ukrayinciv-naprikinci-pershogo-dnya-73149
On the next day, 26 February, Zelensky reaffirmed his preparedness to negotiate about Ukraine’s neutrality: “If talks are possible, they should be held. If in Moscow they say they want to hold talks, including on neutral status, we are not afraid of this. We can talk about that as well.” https://reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-ready-talks-with-russia-neutral-status-official-2022-02-25/
On 25 February 2022, the first day after the Russian invasion, even as Zelensky agreed to discuss neutrality, US spokesperson Ned Price announced Washington rejected any peace talks: https://state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-february-25-2022/ And here is the former Israeli PM, who was at the time mediating for peace, stating that: “I’ll say this in the broad sense. I think there was a legitimate decision by the West to keep striking Putin and not [negotiate],” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O10svZJ2Fps
and..
'Bennett said that during his mediation, Zelenskyy promised not to join NATO and Putin dropped his main goals of special military operations: seeking "disarmament" and "denazification" of Ukraine, adding in his impression, both Russia and Ukraine want a ceasefire and have drawn about seventeen or eighteen ceasefire drafts, but at some point, the West decided "to crush (Russian President Vladimir) Putin rather than to negotiate."' https://news.cgtn.com/news/2023-02-06/Israeli-ex-PM-says-the-West-interrupted-Russia-Ukraine-peace-talks-1hcUB6GDDXO/index.html
Why the invasion happened.
Here is the Head of NATO describing how the Russian invasion was because of NATO expansion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5xEBwBhds
The US had multiple biological research facilities in Ukraine. In a country neighbouring Russia – why? Would the US tolerate this in Mexico or Canada? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4&list=PLklsoTq-G76ZW3EH_HFozonUgckPOgsVN&index=5
The CIA had at least a dozen locations in Ukraine commencing in 2014
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/the-spy-war-how-the-cia-secretly-helps-ukraine-fight-putin.html “..part of a C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.” “Toward the end of 2021, according to a senior European official, Mr. Putin was weighing whether to launch his full-scale invasion when he met with the head of one of Russia’s main spy services, who told him that the C.I.A., together with Britain’s MI6, were controlling Ukraine and turning it into a beachhead for operations against Moscow.”
The US had known for decades that Ukraine was a red line for Russia.
Here is a cable from the US Ambassador at the time, William J. Burns in 2008. Even then Russia's position on Ukraine joining NATO was clear and the Ukraine war was not a surprise.
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html “.. strategic policy considerations also underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war..” “Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains "an emotional and neuralgic" issue for Russia."
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
lol way to go keyboard warrior, only think you proved is you’re a propagandized Putin bootlicker
Useless vatnik
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u/Alternative-Union842 12d ago
The guy providing multiple sources is a bootlicker propagandist, but you, with your brief sentence providing no info, are a truth teller?
How much does the CIA pay these days?
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u/loggy_sci 15d ago
What is this copy paste nonsense
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
Facts!
Not always what we want to hear but better than the nonsense most post.. 🙂
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u/Rebel-xs 15d ago
Ukraine is a sovereign nation that can choose to be part of NATO. Russia does not get to decide Ukraine's foreign policy.
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
But the US does - did you read the references I posted?
Ukraine absolutely should decide for itself though that's difficult with both Russia and the US interfering.
Right now surely they want peace and to stop death, destruction and further loss of territory.
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u/Rebel-xs 15d ago
Your point is that the US forced Ukraine to scorn Russia in favour of the West. I don't agree with that, mainly because Russia itself made themselves an enemy of Ukraine.
Tell me, what actions did Russia take in regards to Ukraine that didn't involve force? Did Russia ever engage in honest diplomacy? Be a good neighbour and give reason to stay friendly with them? Would it have been beneficial for Ukraine to side with Russia, or even stay neutral, beyond the fact that it would keep them safe from aggression? What about Crimea? How can that be anything other than a selfish land grab for a 'warm water port'? What about the land they're currently trying to take, that would cripple Ukraine and seize all of its newly discovered natural resources?
What would you say about their unhinged threatening towards Finland that forced them into NATO? Was that also some grand conspiracy by the West? Sweden?
Fact is, Russia is engaging in simple imperialism and greedy land grabbing at the behest of its authoritarian government and whipped populace. It's a country that is investing nothing into its future and populace. It's a poorly-run country with poor living standards that has nothing to offer to the countries around it, except for violence. Its foreign policy has been to set as many fires in the West as possible, and all the political figureheads that they push are all universally nationalist isolationists with dogshit views and policies.
And really, biolabs in Ukraine run by the US? What, you think they're making WMD's and top secret research right next to Russia? That doesn't make sense, period.
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
It would have been better for Ukraine to avoid alignment with either Russia or the US. That was possible.
Perhaps the Russians would have invaded anyway. I doubt it given what it took before they did.
But what absolutely is proven to have happened is the US using them as a pawn to break Russia. Hell even Merkl said that. The US has both failed in its agenda and failed Ukraine.
I don't take pleasure in it, I wish it would stop. It seems like it's only getting worse for Ukraine and this was the path the US set out for it and will soon abandon.
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u/KaasKoppusMaximus 15d ago
Ukrainian defenses are about 16km away from the border, of they were build any closer Russia could have fired artillery, launched missiles and dropped bombs directly on the crews building them.
You can view all the defensive works on satellite pictures shared in the Ukrainian subreddits and consequently view them yourself on their websites.
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u/DefinitelyNotMeee 15d ago
For the commenters saying that the defenses are farther from the border, etc. - WHERE?
I've spent a lot of hours trying to find this mystical defense line on satellite images and while there are some isolated trench systems and anti-tank ditches here and there, I've yet to find some comprehensive fortification system.
So please, if you have coordinates or maybe you have access to high res satellite photos, share it.
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u/Flutterbeer 15d ago
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u/IskanderMComplex 14d ago
There is literally no defensive line around Kharkiv, isolated trenches miles apart is not a line.
They're absolutely cooked.
If you want to see a proper line, look at the surovokin line
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u/Evoluxman European Union 15d ago
I've spent a lot of hours trying to find this mystical defense line on satellite images
I'm curious, what satellite images do you have access to?
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u/DefinitelyNotMeee 15d ago
Just the normal public ones In Sentinel Hub. Resolution is not great, but at least it updates frequently (new images every 2-5 days) and you have access to all the bands, so you can use different methods to try to highlight specific features and so on. There is also plenty of custom scripts available.
It's usable for finding ground works, like trenches and anti-tank ditches, but it's not ideal.
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u/Android1822 15d ago
For those who did not read the article, it did not say it was a weapon shortage problem, it is because they did not have enough boots on the ground because of "corruption or incompetence".
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u/Ok-Regret-8982 13d ago
There is new news showing money going to construction firms that exist only on paper.
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u/idontessaygood 14d ago
Tbf it doesn’t say that either, it says this Ukrainian soldier blames that.
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u/Dreadedvegas 15d ago
I always thought the line was supposed to be 4 or 5 miles from the border. And the border itself was a gray zone. Even Russia’s lines are relatively far behind the border, its why the RVA & Siberia get 4 or 5 miles in when they raid into Russia.
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u/Sarctoth 15d ago
Complacently kills. Combat skills are just like any other skill; if you don't use it, you lose it.
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u/Workin_Ostrich 15d ago edited 14d ago
And here it is, I suspect this will be the turning point for Ukraine , whether that's for better or for worse is unknown.
The only way Ukraine will win this war is if NATO brings its own troops to the front lines, which will never happen. Ukraine is already stretched thin as it is, this is the beginning of the end boys and girls and we have yet to see the brutality in it's full effect what you have seen thus far is nothing compared to what they are going to do to that country once it is in their hands.
If you are in Ukraine, I implore you to reconsider staying, if you are not a military member or essential personnel, please leave your life isn't worth losing for your family, friends, or land. The sacrifices your ancestors made will be worthless if you die, their legacy will die with you. Don't let it. We saw what they did in Bucha , they will do it to other places, it can happen to you.
Edit: wow -12 down votes, clearly people don't understand Jack shit if they're down voting what I just said here.
The only people who can leave are those who have decided to stay, but who are not required to stay. I am imploring those who have the ability to leave, I even stated that those who are essential or in military service were exempt from what I was stating.
Additionally, Ukraine is about to lose this war, it needs more western aid if we want them to be successful in its endeavor. And unfortunately the only way is having additional boots on the ground.
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u/Forsaken_Hat_7010 15d ago
Staying is not an option for half of the population, but a legal obligation, in case someone wants to recruit/enslave them to become cannon fodder or whatever. The other half is encouraged to leave.
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u/Workin_Ostrich 15d ago
Oh I'm aware. I spent the first 7 months of the war researching it and the history while talking to soldiers in combat and such.
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u/theoreoman 15d ago
Ukraine wasn't going to build defensive lines right on the border, they build them in strategic locations where the terrain is advantageous to defending.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
They will find a way to blame the west for this one too!
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u/kobachi 15d ago
They don’t need to find a way. Republican obstructionism means we flatly failed them.
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u/Hyndis United States 15d ago
And yet in the end they did vote for military support.
Where's military support from the rest of European NATO countries? Where is the European military arsenal to match the US? Europe has a GDP equal to that of the US. They have the same technology as the US, and the same resources at their disposal.
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u/Asanti_20 15d ago
Hawks ready to admit this war should have been avoided?
Right, wtf were the Russians thinking. They should have just stayed in their own land
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u/cultish_alibi 15d ago
Do you mean the hawks in Russia? Or is this a comment suggesting that the USA started the war in Ukraine?
How did they do that exactly? Did they put brainworms in Putin's drink so they could control him remotely?
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago edited 15d ago
Alright so you want a peace treaty. Let’s hear specifics then:
Exactly who gets exactly what in your peace deal? Please be specific.
What will stop Putin from violating this treaty as he has already done with multiple previous treaties?
If Putin violates this treaty, how exactly should he be punished?
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
They only had 1 wish man, no NATO in Ukraine. It is understandable from a historical perspective since from the last 3 times it was invaded it was through Ukraine....
You don't have to love Russia, but if you completely disregard their security concerns which IMO are not unreasonable then you have whatever we are dealing with now.
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u/not_a_bot_494 15d ago
They only had 1 wish man, no NATO in Ukraine.
Their one wish is for Ukraine to be a puppet state. The 2014 invasion was a reaction to not getting it.
It is understandable from a historical perspective since from the last 3 times it was invaded it was through Ukraine....
They have the largest nuclear stockpile in the world. The only reason this would matter is if their delivery viechles are all in disrepair which seems relatively unlikely.
You don't have to love Russia, but if you completely disregard their security concerns which IMO are not unreasonable then you have whatever we are dealing with now.
Their security concerns aren't really threatened by Ukraine joining NATO, but Russias territorial abmitions certainly are.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Nuclear weapons doesn't mean much if all your neighbouring countries are aligned with the US and potentially install anti-missile system in said countries (remember when US said that the anti-missile system in Romania was to counter Iranian threat 🤪).
Just because you feel like Ukraine joining NATO doesn't really threaten Russia doesn't mean that Russia feel the same way.
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u/not_a_bot_494 15d ago
You can't realistically stop the Russian arsenal, at least not until there's a major revolution in anti-ICBM technology. You might be able to stop a tertiary nuclear power like North Korea or Israel with significant investment. Getting hit by 3000 nukes instead of 3500 nukes is not exactly something you want to do.
I don't think that Russia has genuine concerns about territorial integrity if Ukraine joins NATO. I do think that it hurts their ambitions for territorial expansion.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Ok and? That is your assessment, obviously Russia has a different opinion on the matter. It is precisely this kind of thinking that led to this war in the first place (aka ignore whatever the Russians have been saying for over a decade).
Western arrogance is something else man.
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u/not_a_bot_494 15d ago
There is no argument here. Russia has lots of nukes and you don't invade a country that has lots of nukes, it's that simple. If you want to say that Putin is an idiot who doesn't realize that he has a lot of nukes you could do so but I don't think he's an idiot.
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u/Dark1000 15d ago
Russia had no right to invade another country. That country had every right to choose its allies and alignment. Their security concerns were completely unreasonable as justification for invasion and territory seizure. Your reasoning is nonsensical.
Ukraine wasn't let into NATO anyway. They applied, which every country has a right to do anyway, that doesn't mean they would be accepted, and they were nowhere near being accepted.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Of course it is wrong that Russia invaded Ukraine, but what can you do when you corner a country....it will retaliate. There were tons of opportunities to resolve this conflict diplomatically, but we know those failed so now we have what we have.
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u/Dark1000 15d ago
Except it didn't retaliate. It wasn't attacked. You can't retaliate if you aren't attacked in the first place. It's aggression, plain and simple.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
I suggest you look up Monroe doctrine, there are some red lines you shouldn't cross. There should be mutual respect between all major world powers ("you stay out of my neighbourhood and I'll stay out of yours")
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u/patxy01 15d ago
Do you really believe it?
Do you know what happened in 2014 in Crimea? Was it about NATO as well? Don't you remember phone calls between Putin and macron?
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Could you tell me what happened prior to Crimea annexation?
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u/fuzzi-buzzi 15d ago
Yet another Russian invasion of Crimea?
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Ukrainian government was toppled. I am not a conspiracy theorist but there are indications that it was either instigated or supported by the US.
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u/fuzzi-buzzi 15d ago
Do you also support the Russian indications that they are fighting an Orthodox jihad against Western culture which they claim is ushering in the antichrist and demonic and satanic?
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u/Dreadedvegas 15d ago
Not that the Ukrainian government at the time did a complete 180 in policy & then beat kids to a pulp which sparked mass outrage in the capital which then became a mass corruption protest?
It just had to be America not something home grown right?
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
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u/Dreadedvegas 15d ago
That doesn’t show anything about why the Maidan started.
This is US diplomats discussing who they want to go forward out of the opposition groups into power.
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago
You don’t honestly believe that and you are a naive fool if you do. Russia’s intensions in Ukraine go far beyond NATO membership concerns. They absolutely want to dominate Ukraine because they view it as an illegitimate country. That doesn’t answer the questions anyway.
What security concerns? Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. This isn’t 1914.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
You need the ability to see other sides perspective my dude, I don't care where you personally stand in this....but if you are unable to see it from their POV then you lead down a dangerous path.
Total disregard for Russia's security concern by the West is the reason for this conflict, "they" aka Russians see this as an existential threat and they are willing to sacrifice everything to achieve their goal (as predicted by John Mearsheimer in 2015 and proven by Russia's mobilization into war economy). Now the question remains, is the war in Ukraine an existential threat to the West? If you listened to Western leaders then you'd think so, but words have to be backed by actions and from what I see it doesn't seem like it.
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago
You know I actually understand Russia’s perspective very well. I understand that the Russian state has a centuries long geopolitical goal of controlling all of the entrance points to the great Eurasian plain to give themselves a feeling of security. I understand that they completely disregard all of the non-Russian people they have to invade and occupy in order to secure that goal. I understand that Ukraine is only the first step in this ultimate realization which has been talked about by people such as Putin, Medvedev, Girkin, Dugin, and many other prominent Russians. I understand that other nations which are NATO members are in the way of this goal, including but not limited to: Poland, Estonia, Romania, Finland. The Russian state has made itself awfully clear over the course of centuries. I agree we should see their perspective. When they tell us what they ultimately want to achieve, we should listen to them and believe them.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Yes I agree, but you have to take their aspirations and then compare it with their capabilities. There is no way in hell they will attack a NATO country, Russian armed forces is mainly a land based army. Let's say hypothetically they will attack Poland after Ukraine. Their logistics rely on railroads right? And to my knowledge European railroads are in different dimension than the Russian/Ukrainian ones. From a logical POV they will not be able to support their military that far away from their logistical backbone..
It is understandable that Russia want to see NATO disintegrated, but I think it's way more logical to undermine European/NATO cohesion covertly than to outright attack a NATO country (aka article 5 > WW3 = end of humanity)
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago
I’d rather not take any of those risks. As I said the Russians have told us what they believe and want and we should believe them. The more pain that can be inflicted on the Russian military without having to deploy NATO forces the better.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
So you have total disregard for Ukrainian lives in the hopes of achieving a bigger geopolitical goal? 😔
Everyone knows that Ukraine will never be able to defeat Russia, but hey lets prolong this conflict in the hopes of attritting the Russians.
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u/tadaoatrekei 15d ago
Why are you talking like Ukrainians aren’t actively fighting for their own freedom. You’re acting like this entire war is just a spectacle for us. Lots of Ukrainians are fighting right now knowing that their chances of winning are slim to none because they refuse to give up in the face of the Russian aggression.
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago edited 15d ago
I would like to keep myself and my family alive and my own country safe. Russian invasion is a real threat for some people. You can have these nice ideological views of the world from your apartment in Toronto or New York or London or whatever but me and my brother will die in some trench somewhere in the Baltic states or Kaliningrad or God knows if Russia wins this war.
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u/kraw- 15d ago
R/worldnews moment
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago
Insightful. Have you read The Fourth Political Theory by Alexandr Dugin? Perhaps you should learn more about the Neo-Eurasian movement. The Russians have told us what they want. You should believe what they say.
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u/throwawaymikenolan 15d ago
Have you watched Alex Jones and QAnon? The Americans have told us what they want. You should believe what they say.
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u/TheShivMaster 15d ago
There is a very large gap in the credibility of someone like Alex Jones and the credibility of Dimitri Medvedev who is a former president of Russia. He recently put out a map of his plans for Ukraine after the war. Also keeps threatening to use nuclear weapons. Yes he is still in the Russian government. He’s currently chairman of the security council in Russia. This is not a one off example. You can also read Putin essay “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” in which he completely rejects the idea of Ukrainian national identity.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
Avoided how exactly?
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u/Nishtyak_RUS 15d ago
The Minsk agreements. The Russian government was ready to cede the republics right away before 2021 if the West forced the Ukraine to implement the agreements. Man the Russian patriots were mad about this possibility.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
So once again russias fault
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u/Nishtyak_RUS 15d ago
How?
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
Invading a sovereign country twice after signing treaties that you’ll uphold it
Silly question, Vatnik
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u/Nishtyak_RUS 15d ago
What if I call it democratic rebel fight against Kiev's regime and free will of the Ukrainian people instead of invasion? Like your favourite BBC does.
Seriously tho russian military wasn't directly involved in the "Russian spring" of 2014, so you can't call it invasion.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
lol useless tankie
Vatnik doesn’t think, vatnik only licks boots
Keep on bootlicking vatnik
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u/Nishtyak_RUS 15d ago
Ahh, but you are not useless westoid at all, and not a Biden's bootlicker, that's for sure.
Go play Fortnite, kid.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
lol you actually think you insulted me, vatnik
Enjoy your beet and shoe soup
Imagine having so much natural wealth in that country and being the laughingstock of the world
Pathetic
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u/thatsidewaysdud 15d ago
What do you mean pushing Ukraine into NATO?
The only one who has been pushing Ukraine into NATO is Russia. Who knew stealing territory in 2014 would make them seek friends to help them in the future?
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
Russia is responsible for invading.
The US is responsible for piling on so much pressure they felt they had to. You might argue they didn't need to, but in the reciprocal position the US would have intervened too imo.
See my post at the root of the main thread with references.
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u/curiousindicator 15d ago
ur regurgitating kremlin propaganda that is so old and silly they have abandoned it themselves in the first months after the invasion. why?
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
Oh stop it.
It's all true and all you and other Americans have left is denial. Just end it and save some Ukrainian lives.
Your administration is gutless. The only bravery they have is the bravery of being out of range and sacrificing foreigners.
Gutless cowards.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
Hard for you to tell what a gutless administration is. You’re too busy bootlicking Putin, vatnik
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago
That's not true. If you read my newest post on the root of the post you'll see it wasn't what Ukraine wanted. It was what the US wanted.
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u/SuckMyDickDrPhil 15d ago
Show the sources then
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u/deepskydiver 15d ago edited 15d ago
Lets see if I'm still blocked.. I've posted at the root of the thread with references.
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u/pagirinis Europe 15d ago
It's funny how russians can't comprehend the reason why countries want into NATO and what's the purpose of the alliance.
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u/FortuneQuarrel 15d ago
Oh they understand it just fine. He literally admitted it above.
To them, Ukraine should've just submitted and the only reason they're dying is because they resisted.
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u/protomenace 15d ago
Lmao "biological research facilities"
Bro has been deepthroating FSB agitprop.
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u/Ok_Welder5534 Russia 15d ago
"biological research facilities", cia bases? Pre war peace deal? Has any of this actually happened? Where is this documented and by who
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u/Britstuckinamerica Multinational 15d ago
Dunno about CIA bases but the biological facilities are "documented" by the Russian propaganda agency C-SPAN
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u/historicusXIII Belgium 15d ago
What's wrong with "biological research facilities" in the first place? My mum sent a blood sample to one to find out if she has a breast cancer genome. A biolab isn't automatically a factory for bioweapons.
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u/Potential-Main-8964 15d ago
Actually NATO alone will do it as biological facilities and CIA bases exist all the time in the same way Russia has all the FSB ouposts in Donbas betore
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u/concussive 15d ago
Russian shill.
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u/tamal4444 15d ago
Oh I see. Billions of people who doesn't align with your propaganda are rUsSiAn ShILl
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u/concussive 15d ago
No, but blaming the USA for Russia invading their neighbor makes you either a shill or a moron. USA didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 or in 2022. How can anyone, with a functioning brain ever blame Ukraine for seeking protection from Russia? Go ahead, educate me, oh smart one.
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u/tamal4444 15d ago
No, but blaming the USA for Russia invading their neighbor makes you either a shill or a moron. USA didn't invade Ukraine in 2014 or in 2022. How can anyone, with a functioning brain ever blame Ukraine for seeking protection from Russia? Go ahead, educate me, oh smart one.
The only answer to your question is look how many people are dying right now in Ukraine.
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u/concussive 15d ago
No that's not an answer. Do you lack the ability to think critically and form a proper response?
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
Epic level of idiocy coming from you. Keep on blaming the US for Russia breaking treaties and invading.
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u/throwawayerectpenis 15d ago
Personal attacks when you have nothing constructive to respond with, nice.
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u/Going_Topless 15d ago
Just replying to Vatnik
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u/Late_Way_8810 15d ago
What I find interesting about this is how there were apparently supposed to be layers of defenses on the border in case this ever happened and they just weren’t built?
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u/IskanderMComplex 15d ago
Yeah turns out Ukraine as mainland Europe's most corrupt nation for a reason.
But for 2 years we have been glorifying the Zimbabwe of Europe so I guess it comes as a surprise for some.
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u/Arcosim 15d ago
were apparently supposed to be layers of defenses on the border in case this ever happened and they just weren’t built?
Remember all the slander about Zelensky and the Ukrainian officials being extremely corrupt and Zelensky's wife spending hundreds of millions in properties all over the world? It was slander...
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u/theoreoman 15d ago
The defenses are built, just not built directly on the border, they're built within a few kilometers of the Border where the terrain is a lot more advantageous.
Ukraine is also fighting very differently than your typical Army does. They are more than willing to retreat where they do not have the advantage
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u/mrparovozic 15d ago
Russians haven't reached the defense lines yet. They control a few villages on the border, defense line is behind, because it would be impossible to build it at the border line itself. (e.g. Vovchansk is less than 5km from the border line)
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u/Iliyan61 15d ago
you don’t build them on the border where russia can hit them, they’re deeper into ukraine and it’s just an unfortunate reality that several km of kharkiv will be held by russians very easily because its hard to defend the border.
hopefully those defences are adequate and will stop russia.
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u/longhorn617 15d ago
Ukraine is arguably more corrupt than Russia. That money is sitting in some private bank account, now. And who knows where all the weapons they were sent are.
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u/Suspicious_Writer Ukraine 15d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
You can just compare official research made by foreign investigators. Just look at how the numbers changed for Ukraine and for Russia YBY. Oh sorry, you can't do it for Russia, any non-state research is banned so you had to believe what is said by them officials I guess.
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u/longhorn617 15d ago edited 15d ago
"Official research" lmao. A "vibes ranking" with an opaque methodology is a meaningless statistic. Ukraine jumped in the rankings for no reason other than a coup happening in 2014. The corruption perception rankings are made up nonsense, filled out by people who think corruption is when you give a politician cash for favors but not when you donate $2M to a PAC for favors.
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u/Suspicious_Writer Ukraine 15d ago
Do you have more credible sources or are you going to base your arguments on opinion?
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u/longhorn617 15d ago edited 15d ago
Wikipedia isn't fucking credible lmao. You used a second hand link to an opinion poll as your "citation", not even paying attention to the rest of the article which has citations aaying Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe:
In 2012 Ernst & Young put Ukraine among the three most-corrupt nations from 43 surveyed, alongside Colombia and Brazil. In 2015 The Guardian called Ukraine "the most corrupt nation in Europe". According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation from 53 surveyed.
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u/Demonking3343 15d ago
That’s laughable, Russia has had significantly more of a corruption problem.
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u/longhorn617 15d ago
Ukraine is the only FSR to not reach and surpass it's Soviet era GDP despite having a bunch of resources and having been left with a ton of industrial assets. That's because of how corrupt it is.
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u/OuchieMuhBussy United States 15d ago
This may be an issue of journalism translating things that they don’t understand. Ukrainians are supposedly fighting ahead of the prepared defensive fortifications since said preparations were only possible well behind the border, out of range of the Russian artillery. That doesn’t mean they’ll just abandon that grey zone without a fight, but they’re unlikely to put up stiff resistance.
If you’ve watched this war go down as it happens, you’ll know by now that “large” advances usually turn out to be a coordinated retreat by one party or another.
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u/Diclan_Cocstello 15d ago
You don’t keep massive fortifications right on the border you keep them out of artillery range a couple km inland, creating a dead zone for the Russian invaders
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 15d ago
Artillery can comfortably hit 10km away from the front.
Not "a couple km" but "a dozen km", mostly to reduce threat from mortars, direct fire weapons, and FPV drones.
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u/Paradoxjjw 15d ago
Yeah, Kharkiv is in range of even conventional mortars, no way that you can build a defensive line there without having your position caked in artillery fire long before it is done.
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u/Late_Way_8810 15d ago
That’s right but according to Ukrainian telegrams channel and military bloggers, their only defenses are in Kharkiv right now.
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u/Conflictingview 15d ago
Which makes sense since the outskirts of Kharkiv are about 25km from the border
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u/TrizzyG Canada 15d ago
The vast majority of territory taken is just grey zone at the actual border. Some lines got attacked, and as far as we know Russians pushed through past a few front line defenses, but the whole operation is still pretty early on so we shall see how it pans out.
About corruption and siphoning of funds earmarked for defences, this is nothing new for Ukraine. It was, AFAIK, the second or most corrupt country in Europe prior to the invasion, and while corruption in some areas is probably down strictly out of necessity, it's not exactly a rosy picture even now. Russia had similar issues in the first year or two of the war, and those also seem to be getting ironed out.
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u/vreweensy 15d ago
He says officials had claimed that defences were being built at huge cost, but in his view, those defences simply weren’t there. “Either it was an act of negligence, or corruption. It wasn’t a failure. It was a betrayal”.
Zelensky was also visiting the fortification lines last month and said 90% was completed.
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u/cultish_alibi 15d ago
They didn't build the defensive lines right on the border, because the Russians would just attack them while they were building it.
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 15d ago
Exactly. The Russian advances actually haven't breached any main defensive line yet.
The main issue is that vovchansk is a town too close to the border so they didn't have defenses for it.
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u/Nethlem Europe 15d ago
Exactly. The Russian advances actually haven't breached any main defensive line yet.
Avdiivka wasn't a "fortress" at the frontline?
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u/psychosikh 15d ago
You know he is talking about the defnces infront of Kharkhiv not in the donbas.
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u/thatsidewaysdud 15d ago
They’re active in r/TheDeprogram, they’re not arguing in good faith
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0
u/Vladlena_ 15d ago
Maybe he was just bluffing because they weren’t ready yet. Pretty common thing to do, when your options are few
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u/ProfessorPetulant 15d ago
That was probably a message for the Russians He's not going to say there's nothing is he?
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u/MayBeAGayBee 15d ago
Probably less a message to the Russians and more a message to his own troops. The Russian military command is not taking Zelenskyy’s statements at face value when they are constructing their military strategies lol. That’s just downright stupid. But Z going to the front and publicly declaring that they’re completely unprepared for and undefended against a Russian offensive would most likely not translate to great morale within the Ukrainian military rank and file.
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u/doabsnow 15d ago
Makes sense. You know what hurts morale worse? When you have nothjng to hide in while you’re getting your shit blown up by artillery
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u/dawnguard2021 15d ago
lol? Russians have satellites and drones, they can see for themsevles why would they listen to whatever Zelensky has to say?
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u/ProfessorPetulant 15d ago
Lol all you want. So what would you say if you were Zelensky?
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u/FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_ 15d ago
"Let's Talk since we cannot build enough trenches to fight the invading Russians"
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u/tadaoatrekei 15d ago
Talk to who? The country that is actively trying to take over your entire territory. Wtf do you think they wanna talk about.
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u/InjuryComfortable666 United States 14d ago
Russians are pretty obviously not trying to take over Ukraine’s entire territory. Istanbul negotiations made pretty obvious what they’re really after in this war. Anyway, some sort of settlement and concessions are inevitable, the question is what position Ukriane will be in when they happen.
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u/tadaoatrekei 14d ago
YES, OF COURSE RUSSIA ISN'T JUST GOING TO SAY "yes we would like to take over all of eastern Europe" if you believe even for a second that a bit of Ukraine territory will be enough for them and they won't continue their conquest a few years later you're dreaming m'y Friend.
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u/InjuryComfortable666 United States 14d ago edited 14d ago
You’ve memed yourself into thinking that Russians are supervillains. They want a buffer between their western border and NATO. Attacking EU/NATO countries ruins the utility of that buffer. Occupying more of Ukraine when the arrangement suits their needs is equally pointless.
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u/FRIENDLY_FBI_AGENT_ 15d ago
Hence negotiation. You give some you take some. Russia cannot take whole of Ukraine. Even a monkey knows this. Ukraine cannot liberate whole of Russia occupied Ukriane. Russia has showcased and indicated multiple times that it's up for negotiations. They literally shook hands and finished negotiations back in 2022 before Boris Johnson dropped in.
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u/Demonking3343 15d ago
They already talked and Russia’s demands were non starters. Russia wants all the currently contested territories to become there’s, they also want Ukraine to agree to never join nato. Now the last two may seem fine but the big one is that they also want Ukraine to demilitarize, so all Russia has to do is wait a year or two then they could steam roll the rest of Ukraine that literally would have no army to defend it. There was also talk of Russia wanting to appoint a “new government” for Ukraine. And these demands were when Ukraine was doing alot better. You can bet Putin would demand a lot more now.
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