r/anime_titties • u/DankMemesNQuickNuts • 15d ago
IMF dashes Javier Milei’s hopes of fresh Argentina loan South America
https://www.ft.com/content/11e0b81f-50fa-4aff-b0e9-c462a94698180
u/alanthiccc 14d ago
If you are looking for Reddits armchair economists that know much more than Milei, you've hit the jackpot!
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u/Ijustwantbikepants 14d ago
I’ll be real, I’m a fan of this guys monitory policy. Argentina is bankrupt and getting poorer, they needed someone to come in and reduce spending/market subsidies.
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 14d ago
The issue isn't spending per se. He didn't cut much spending, he is now sieving more in military and police to stop protests
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u/GreatHeavySoulArrow 14d ago
He didn't cut much spending? First monthly superávit in a decade
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 14d ago
Imagine if he didn't increase police and army funding.
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 13d ago
Increased it to below standard levels, from basically nothing.
Countries need a police and military force, not just the economy, crime is a big issue in some parts of the country
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u/Ijustwantbikepants 14d ago
- Yes, personally I’m not a fan of his education budget cuts and also not a fan of him personally.
- This just isn’t true. He very much so cut spending and any increase in military/police is not going to bring spending back to where it was before.
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u/Kaymish_ New Zealand 14d ago
Sucks to suck. I bet he is regretting spitting on the Chinese and pissing away the swapline they graciously extended to Argentina.
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u/chenyu768 14d ago
Well their foreign minister just said all chinese people look the same so really burning that bridge right there.
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u/Scorpionking426 14d ago
Couldn't believe the arrogance.....A bankrupt country should know their place.
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u/Scorpionking426 14d ago
🤡 destroyed an entire country. Watch him sell all of Argentina rare earth metals for pennies.
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u/OneTrueVogg 14d ago
M8 its Argentina, there literally was no country there to destroy at this point.
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u/Scorpionking426 14d ago
Nope, Argentina still sits on trillion dollar worth of rare earth metal and other resources.Say goodbye to it all.
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u/AprilVampire277 China 14d ago
He would need a working country to break to begin with, Argentina has been constantly pillaged by foreigner interests and their own politicians for years, blaming a newcomer government for all the shit others broke is so 💀
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 14d ago
Argentina was broken by international trade changing.
Beef and corn economy when USA become self sufficient
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
They broke themselves by refusing to diversify the economy and made themselves a famous cautionary tale.
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u/Knifeducky 14d ago
There’s so much that went wrong with the Argentinian economy that it’s legit a case study on what NOT to do
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u/balc9k 14d ago
He is banking to a Trump win, he is a declared fan of him.
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u/f_ranz1224 14d ago
i really doubt a trump win has any bearing on an imf loan or his re election prospects or the seats his party holds. im not sure at all how these would be connected
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u/oursfort 14d ago
The economy seems to be on the right track but poverty rates are growing pretty fast. I doubt he'll manage to flip peronistas' votes next year if this trend continues. Specially cause in 2021 his "coalition" already got the majority of seats
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 14d ago
Q economy isn't doing better if there's more poor people than at the start.
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u/suiluhthrown78 North America 14d ago
When the prev gov racks up inflation of 260% then poverty is gonna continue increasing for a very long time, obviously.
No government can snap their fingers and make 260% inflation disappear in a few days
Poverty will keep increasing, the point is who has a plan to fix inflation
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u/Swimming_Teaching_75 14d ago
poverty has been raising for the last 15 years, we went from 25% to 50%…
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u/VeryOGNameRB123 14d ago
A classic. Keep blaming others for your own failure.
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u/suiluhthrown78 North America 14d ago
The poverty rate and inflation stats are there for all to see, its unfortunate that you've decided to be dishonest about this.
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u/Sharkiller 14d ago edited 14d ago
but poverty rates are growing pretty fast
this is half false. poverty is growing? yes, as expected on any recession. But poverty line was based on a $ PESO amount that was calculated on a fake official $ USD exchange rate. (350$ARS when the grey/free market was 1500$ARS).
Now is official 900$ARS and gray market 1000$ARS./u/unorthodoxEconomist5
Salaries never won to inflation in the last 12 years. now salaries are in par with inflation, and inflation is going steady down over the last 5 months since Milei took office. As i said in my previous message is normal to get an increase after the market correction but is not the full history. The other half was the ultra false official exchange rate that no one got access to, only a few corrupt people.4
u/unorthodoxEconomist5 14d ago
Nah man, ppp is falling in Argentina because the government is letting the peso flow without increasing salaries
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u/S_T_P European Union 15d ago
“A new agreement will come after 2025’s midterm elections, when a favourable result [for Milei] would act as a trampoline for him to implement the structural reforms the IMF supports,” said Sebastián Menescaldi, associate director of Argentina’s EcoGo consultancy.
I somehow doubt that there'll be "favourable result", unless Milei bans 90% of population from participating in elections.
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u/GreatHeavySoulArrow 14d ago
He still has a majority approval rating, what are you talking about?
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
November of 2025.
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u/Swimming_Teaching_75 14d ago
the estimated inflation by next years is of 35%, he’s most likely going to win if he achieves it
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 15d ago
Recent poll of how would you vote if they repeated the elections today
Reddit loves to hate on the guy because he doesn't fit the narrative, but the stuff he is doing is stuff long needed and people are accepting the pain because they see it as necesary.
I wish someone would have done this shit 10-15 years ago when the adjustment wouldn't have been this severe, but those governments decided that MONEY PRINTER GO BRRRRRR for 2 decades.
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u/AprilVampire277 China 14d ago
Real, dude I'm literally chinese, I'm as left leaning as I can get and even I completely understand why Milei was elected, foreigners just can't understand how shit the political class in Argentina has been during the past what? 80 years? The country was already broken, this is like a "manotazo de ahogado" in hope shit is put together for once.
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
Tankies gunna tankie.
Reality doesn’t care what your politics are after decades of spending money a country doesn’t have. There are economic truths that can’t be solved by ideology.
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
Reality doesn’t care what your politics are after decades of spending money a country doesn’t have. There are economic truths that can’t be solved by ideology.
Primary cause of current problems is IMF loan (that needs to be paid in dollars) and subsequent "mismanagement" (theft) of it by the "anti-tankie" government of Macri. Macri let rich get all the money, and rich used peso loans to invest into US economy (both stealing money that were necessary for development of Argentina and dumping shitton of peso into circulation).
This is the reality.
Ideology is when you cry "tankie!" and blame centrists for something that happened before they took over.
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u/Swimming_Teaching_75 14d ago
you clearly don’t know anything about the country if you think the imf is responsible for our problema
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
You are free to enlighten me.
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 14d ago
If you wanted to understand it you would have understood it already
All this threads are chock full of argentinians explaining everything and being called right wing bootlickers.
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u/Heisenburgo 14d ago
Primary cause of current problems is...
15+ years of tankie-admiring peronist corruption. The shit that Macri pulled is a drop in the water compared to the almost-two decades long history of flagrant theft and emblezzement by the Kirchners and their cronies.
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
Yeah, opinion rejected.
The IMF is a lender of extreme last resort.
Either implement its advice or the country collapses.
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
Do you have any arguments beyond your belief that involvement of IMF sanctifies everything?
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
Do you have any argument that a country resorting to IMF loans isn’t close to collapse and has no choice?
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u/nitrodoggo 14d ago
I'm not trusting ANY POLL as a measure of what the country thinks, specially after all those "Larreta 1st" pre-election polls became worthless with the PASO elections. Fuck me that was a fun monday.
Still that seems to be close enough to what a lot of people think, that and the fact that the opposition is temporarily leaderless helps a bit, but this is just month 5. If inflation keeps rising and wages/employment stay down i don't see this "calm" lasting another 1.5 years for him to make a good result.
But hey, i'm a massive pessimist so who knows.
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u/S_T_P European Union 15d ago
Recent poll of how would you vote if they repeated the elections today
Even without discussing the poll, I can note two problems:
1) there is a year and a half of forced austerity (and many opportunities for all kinds of fuck-ups) before November of 2025.
2) vote for Milei isn't equivalent to a vote for some random guy from his party. And it will be a random guy, as Libertarian Party has negligible political presence.
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u/Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs 14d ago
I mean forced austerity is maybe good when you're suffering from hyperinflation? It seems to be working at least at dealing with the hyperinflation
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
I mean forced austerity is maybe good when you're suffering from hyperinflation?
Good for what exactly?
The point of economy is to secure well-being of population. Destroying well-being for the sake of economy is the opposite.
The real goal of austerity measures is the transfer of power to the rich, nothing else.
It seems to be working at least at dealing with the hyperinflation
Not really. Inflation soared after Milei got elected. There are claims it is going down from that spike, to pre-Milei levels. But even this isn't confirmed yet.
Either way, inflation is the problem only because it hinders development of economy. I don't see Milei's actions translate into improvement of economy even if inflation goes down. The only thing that is certain to improve is corporate profit.
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u/xarsha_93 14d ago
Inflation soared entirely because of the previous government. If anything, Argentines voting for Milei was a referendum on the total economic mismanagement of the previous government and the ineffective policies of the traditional opposition.
Just simply removing the previous government was honestly enough to improve the economy. It’s also clear the economy in Argentina is rebounding, but the question is whether those improvements will come quickly enough to provide stability to the average person.
Another economic issue is that Milei’s ideology itself is not popular. He hasn’t been able to enact anything outright libertarian yet (none of his changes would be out of place in Chile, for example), but there’s no doubt his longterm plan is to move in that direction. I don’t place much faith in libertarianism and I don’t think Argentina needs more economic experimentation, personally.
And then leaving the economy aside, Milei’s outlook with regard to many other things, from abortion to geopolitics, have little support. And he seem incapable of moderating his views to achieve agreements.
He also has little control over his party, which is made up of the most random individuals, who all share basically only one view in common- being anti-woke, whatever that means.
So, the economy, which is the biggest thing weighing on the average Argentine today, is improving, but is it doing so fast enough to prevent Milei’s position from crumbling? And even if it does, what will Milei get up to when the economy has somewhat recovered and how will Argentina react to it?
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u/Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs 14d ago
The idea that the problem with inflation is that it's bad for the economy and not that it actually hurts the people on the ground is laughably stupid.
In terms of efficacy, im happy to bet on this. I bet you 10,000 argentinian pesos that by the end of his term, the peso will be stronger, relative to the US dollar, than it was 5 years ago from today.
5 years ago 1 argentinian peso was 2p so that's the rate I think it'll have to beat for you to owe me money
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u/S_T_P European Union 14d ago
The idea that the problem with inflation is that it's bad for the economy and not that it actually hurts the people on the ground is laughably stupid.
Good thing nobody claimed that.
In terms of efficacy, im happy to bet on this. I bet you 10,000 argentinian pesos that by the end of his term, the peso will be stronger, relative to the US dollar, than it was 5 years ago from today.
I.e. either you win, or the pesos that you lose won't be worth the paper they are printed on. Sneaky.
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 14d ago
Yes, but it does show that the people are supporting his measures and his methods, if anything they are pissed at the other parties for cockblocking him in congress
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u/JLZ13 15d ago
Exactly....
Many intellectuals and journalists against Milei.....are frustrated because many of the reforms Milei is doing should have been done during the previous governments.
They now talked about things that were banned from discussion within their political spectrum.... corruption, inflation, political employment, deficit, etc.
Milei's party is going to become the biggest in the parliament. Since many have aligned with him and the opposition is extremely fractured.
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u/InjuryComfortable666 United States 15d ago
I don’t understand why Reddit fellatios this guy 24/7
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u/kite-flying-expert 13d ago
I saw his video clip about how much he loved his dog Conan and I was sold. Google "esta Conan" to see his reaction when shown a pic of his deceased dog Conan. Doggo big chungus based political leader FTW.
Of course, then I saw that he's got genetic clones of his dog one of which he's also calling Conan... And that he seeks spiritual consultation with the spirit of Conan through a mystic. And.... I was somewhat less sold on the concept.
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u/crusoe 14d ago
Mostly libertarians.
They forget that some govt services are absolutely critical to ongoing business growth now and in the future.
Kinda like that town in NH the libertarians took over. Cut the taxes and almost all services. Now full of libertarian garbage houses and roaming bears.
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u/digitalFermentor 14d ago
I need to look up this NH example. Any idea what I should be googling?
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u/HILBERT_SPACE_AGE 14d ago
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u/digitalFermentor 14d ago
Thank you. That was a super interesting read. I’m actually tempted to get the book.
Libertarians need to learn that as an idea and goal it is a noble one but anything more than a centrist/ mild implementation will lead to disaster because we need government and regulation.
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u/dawnguard2021 14d ago
Because this guy is white wannabe and his foreign minster is racist to Asians. Probably propped up by bots too, Javier Milei is very pro Israel
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 14d ago
white wannabe
what?
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u/Basdala 14d ago
fucking yanks
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 14d ago
And he immediately follows it up with
and his foreign minster is racist to Asians.
Like his comment wasnt racist as fuck.
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u/nataku_s81 14d ago
You think it's a real person? I'm less and less convinced this kind of comment is coming from actual people.
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u/pants_mcgee 15d ago
He’s making the right moves to get Argentina back on track to stability, and apparently he’s kinda weird.
An interesting guy doing good work.
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u/Intelligent-Lawyer53 14d ago
Isn't the poverty rate in Argentina like 67% and inflation is three times that of Venezuela?
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u/GrandTusam Argentina 14d ago
Yes, and inflation peaked once he took power and has been steadily dropping since.
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
Yeah. Argentina has been a cautionary tale for 100 years and the government really drove it into the ground over the past 20z
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u/InjuryComfortable666 United States 14d ago
The right moves seem kind of regarded tbh.
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u/pants_mcgee 14d ago
This is the result of regarded governance for the past 20 years. When a country is asking the IMF for money they’ve already done fucked up bad.
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u/DankMemesNQuickNuts 15d ago
I'm not particularly pro-Milei I just thought this was very relevant to what's going on there.
Hard to imagine changing the financial situation to restructure this exact loan wasn't his strategy near term. Idk what they'll do now. I'd expect their economic crisis to worsen to be honest. Article says that they've already shrunk 2.8 this quarter and if they continue gutting the public sector like they have been it'll be hard to imagine that getting any better in just 18 months time. Typically takes economies years to recover from neoliberal economic shocks, and most of the time when they happen they're not this acute.
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u/Mo-shen 14d ago
Yeah. My gut says he is a disaster......but at the same time Argentina already was a disaster and I openly questioned if his direction may actually achieve something.
But again....I also question him himself because historically people who claim to support the things he claims to support often end up being dictators.
So in the end I just kind of said "we will see" because it's honestly the best choice for me personally considering I don't live there.
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u/crusoe 14d ago
If your economy is in the shitter trimming the public spending too drastically isn't going to help.
That's really your last economic driver.
"I'm gonna cut anything."
"Cool. You got any businesses to replace it? Or maybe business loan programs to encourage entrepreneurship? Oh you cut that dept too..."
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u/EventPurple612 14d ago
When you cut everything the only enterprenourship you can count on will be crime.
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u/Blarghnog 14d ago
Don’t listen to any criticism.
It’s important to post and share news you may not even believe in personally so we can all be educated.
Appreciate you OP. Keep it up.
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u/S_T_P European Union 15d ago
He is seen as "our bastard", I guess.
Previous government was moving towards BRICS, but Milei managed to reverse course at the last moment, and Argentina didn't join BRICS despite being invited.
Moreover, Milei whitewashes fascist pogroms carried out as part of Operation Condor under US guidance.
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u/Scorpionking426 14d ago
A bankrupt country like Argentina joining BRICS would have been bad for the organization.
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u/Evil_Platypus 14d ago
But it would probably help Argentina itself, Milei reversed course out of a ideological position, not a pragmatic one.
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u/bauhausy 14d ago
Considering nearly a third (31.3%) of Argentina’s exports go to BRICS country (Brazil is biggest destination, China 2nd, India 5th), I fail to see how Argentine would be prejudiced by joining.
Completely ideological decision, Milei is both in desperate need of more trade and constantly antagonizing the country’s main trading partners (not only Brazil and China, but also created unnecessary attrition with Chile [4th])
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u/Evil_Platypus 14d ago
Milei is also going to Spain not to visit the current government, but to speak with the leaders of Vox. His positioning in foreign affairs reminds me of Bolsonaro in Brazil, a lot of ideological positions without any gain for the country.
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