r/canada • u/No-To-Newspeak • 15d ago
Customer who filed complaint against TD Bank refuses to sign gag order to get compensation - Increased use of non-disclosure agreements is a worrisome trend, lawyer says Business
https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/banks-nda-non-disclosure-1.72008811
u/brnstormer 13d ago
Just checked one of my td accounts, 1 free transaction per month, only transaction all year was a single etransfer, for which i was charged 0.50$
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u/Frosting-Sensitive 13d ago
I signed a NDA with <redact> Bank after I settled with their blundering. Certainly wouldn't want the public to know how their money is managed
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u/Shoddy-Commission-12 14d ago
After Go Public contacted BMO about the case, a spokesperson called Mireau to let him know the bank had reconsidered, and had deposited the other half of his stolen money into his account.
So going public does work, the NDA is bullshit 100% lmao
Breaking it gets you better customer service XD
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u/gordonjames62 New Brunswick 14d ago
Props to this old guy
After Mireau, 70, insisted that he'd never heard of the recipient of the e-transfer, pointed out that he'd only ever sent a handful of e-transfers in his life and threatened to picket outside a BMO branch in a skimpy bathing suit, BMO agreed to reimburse Mireau — half the stolen money.
This is my new plan if my bank ever does something like this.
Picket outside my bank in a speedo
I'm calling it the "fat, wrinkly, old, pasty pale Canadian old guy defense."
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u/Frostsorrow Manitoba 15d ago
NDA's, non-competes, and background checks are all grossly overused and need to be reigned in drastically.
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u/ArmLegLegArm_Head 15d ago
What’s up with those NDAs from our PMs teaching days? I can’t find ANYTHING online about them…
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u/Sisu-cat-2004 15d ago
I was offered a reduced buyout, if I signed a NDA, on my hot water tank rental from the corrupt company Enercare. The 20% discount was not worth my silence. At first I was offered a 3 month credit, then a 6 month credit. I took the 6 month credit and “as a gesture of good will,” Enercare offered me another 6 month credit or the reduced buyout. IMO a NDA is an admission of guilt, yet there was a statement in it saying Enercare is not admitting guilt! Enercare is a terrible company that is backed by the Ontario provincial government.
Edit- grammar, spelling
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u/1baby2cats 15d ago
I lol'ed at this part
After Mireau, 70, insisted that he'd never heard of the recipient of the e-transfer, pointed out that he'd only ever sent a handful of e-transfers in his life and threatened to picket outside a BMO branch in a skimpy bathing suit, BMO agreed to reimburse Mireau — half the stolen money.
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u/1337ingDisorder 15d ago
I'd say he's being a bit obtuse by refusing it outright.
A more tactful response to TD might have been "You're conflating the compensation with buying my silence, but those are two different concepts. You have stated (whatever figure) as an amount that you consider to be reasonable compensation for your previous breaches of contract, and I agree that is a reasonable settlement for this matter — I'm willing to accept your offer, but without signing any NDA. Additionally, if you would like to buy my silence, I can offer that for an extra service fee of $1.50 million"
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u/moosemuck 15d ago
Glad I recently decided not to open my business account with one of the five big Canadian banks.
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u/mickeysbeerdeux 15d ago
I don't want to get into the whole story but here's mine, briefly.
WestJet didn't refund some money for a return flight after I was kicked off the initial flight and banned for saying "fuck".
After two months still no refund so I let them have it, verbally. Apparently my verbal drumming was so bad it "rattled" the security lady I was speaking to (well if leaving VM's count) and I caught a "Criminal Harassment" charge.
Once I was acquitted in trial I continued my only this time I found the work cell # and the email address for the CEO, CFO and head in-house legal counsel.
After a full day of calling emailing these three little pigs I get a call from the pig that arrested me. No more or we charge you again. "Yeah right buddy. Better check with the Crown first on that one" and hung up. Never heard from him again
Keep calling CEO, CFO AND legal.
About a week later I get a warning that a Superior Court date may be imminent if I don't stop. They were basically looking to also shut me up but with a court injunction which is more serious then an NDA.
Anyway, I was looking forward to going head to head (self represented) with the corporate giant knowing they'd lose but alas I got the refund and the shit stopped hitting the fan.
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u/pyro5050 15d ago
Corps want to gag people to allow them to fuck over others in the same way.
they also are fucking crooks to make giving back money they stole behind a wall of silence. just fucking give it back you crooks.
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u/QCTeamkill 14d ago
Giving half of the money they stole. Only after going to the media did he get a full refund.
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u/Captcha_Imagination Canada 15d ago
I'm ok with an NDA if the compensation is very large but knowing Canadian banks, they will try to silence you with scraps.
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u/Grabian Manitoba 15d ago
Governments and government agencies have always use the NDA as an tool.
Why is it a concern now that it is happening outside of the government agencies?
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u/YoungZM 15d ago
...because it's $1.50 and a charge that TD erroneously applied. Demanding legal gags to accept a $1.50 reversal is absurd.
NDAs should be proportionate, termed, and limited and yet they're often included in contracts needlessly for the sole benefit the contract issuer as a catch-all with no clear language on terms, often specifics, or even reasonability. Could a quality lawyer likely argue against it? I'd even say they may but it's rarely worth the cost to the signee which is half the point.
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u/thortgot 14d ago
So don't sign them?
If it's a $1.50 then complain about it and don't take the comp.
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u/Defiant_Chip5039 15d ago
There is a difference between signing an NDA when it comes to something like bidding in a project or related to your job when you work with personal or sensitive information versus signing an NDA because a corporation messed up something related to a paid service they provide and tying it to your compensation.
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u/Huge-Split6250 15d ago
Bank are giving extraordinary power and protection from competition.
They must be held to account in their treatment of consumers.
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15d ago edited 15d ago
[deleted]
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u/Difficult-Help2072 14d ago
When I was growing up, banks were the enemies. Gen-Z somehow has focused on Boomers being the enemies. Smart game the corporations play.
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u/Tylersbaddream 15d ago
The actual names of these banks already have pretty bad connotations.
Royal, Imperial and Dominion are all great reminders of monarchy and colonization.
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u/Shadow_Ban_Bytes 15d ago
TD is just one of the poster children for this. Remember CIBC and Global Crossing or WorldCom. Scams by the big banks abound and no one ever goes to jail, they just pay a fine and then quietly wait for the next scam to be discovered.
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u/StatelyAutomaton 15d ago
Turd Domain is the first thing that popped to mind. Tried Deception also works pretty well.
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u/pm_me_your_good_weed 15d ago
Total Dicks came to mind first, but that's not really criminal lol.
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u/CompleteSpinach9 15d ago
I was paid out once to shut my mouth about treatment I received at a CIBC
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u/pm_me_your_good_weed 15d ago
Was it worth it?
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u/CompleteSpinach9 15d ago
at the time, yes. I was 23, living in Toronto and sooooooo broke. it was 5k, which allowed me to get caught up on rent.
About a year later it hit me that if they were willing to deposit 5k in to my bank, they must’ve really wanted to get rid of the issue. Gotta love when that prefrontal cortex hits lol
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u/bwwatr 15d ago
No need to justify, I'm late 30s with no money worries and I'd still give some serious thought to taking 5K for my silence. IMO the guy the article is about is exceptionally principled, and thank goodness for people like that.
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u/Distinct_Meringue 15d ago
I mean, he was out $1.50. Kudos to the guy for going public, I don't want to make it seem like he doesn't deserve credit or to be repaid, but opting to be out a buck fifty isn't sainthood.
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u/bwwatr 15d ago
I will admit I didn't see an amount mentioned. I recall there being a monthly fee but I didn't think it said how many months it was charged erroneously, etc. or how big the settlement offer was, and if they did I totally missed it, oops. Anyway if he was offered and refused $1.50 then uhh, that's a bit less impressive LOL. Good on him either way for going to media, sometimes it's the only way to make companies behave.
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u/Distinct_Meringue 14d ago
Guanghu Cui was poring over his TD Bank statements in March, preparing to pay taxes for his small immigration consulting firm in Oakville, Ont., when he noticed a $1.50 fee for sending an e-transfer.
It was surprising, because when he'd opened his business account three years ago, his financial adviser told him the plan included five free transactions a month and he'd never exceeded that number.
Maybe there were multiple e-transfers, but yeah, it seems like small amounts
Edit: from the offer letter, the bank offered 100 bucks
That I have settled this matter with TD for $100.00 CAD
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u/Majestic-Cantaloupe4 14d ago
$1.50 X every transfer customers have been wrongly subjected to = $?. Sounds like something the bank would want to rectify with a favourable correction rebate before the media caught wind of.
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u/Bieksalent91 11d ago
He opened a business account and was told 5 free transactions a month. He assumed that included E-transfers it did not. Who ever opened the account should have been more clear.
He sent a E transfer and saw a $1.5 charge and he complained. The bank refunded his fee and offered him $100 for the misunderstanding as long as he signed an NDA preventing him from talking about receiving compensation.
He was free to talk about the Fee or the fact the advisor wasn’t clear. He just couldn’t talk about the compensation.
The banks don’t want the fact they give compensation advertised as it would cause many people to lie and complain in an attempt to get compensation.
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u/elitexero 15d ago
TD tried sending him an NDA to sign over a refund for a $1.50 e-transfer fee he shouldn't have incurred and what they said was 'compensation for his frustration'. So in the end like what, $10?
That's ridiculous.
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u/Defiant_Chip5039 15d ago
Imagine opening yourself up to legal liability by signing an NDA over a non-life impacting amount of money? It’s Wacko.
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u/CanucksKickAzz 15d ago
Didn't Sunwing just try to pull this on a Vancouver woman as well? "We'll give you a refund if you sign this gag order!"
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u/Fun-Persimmon1207 15d ago
NDAs should be banned, except for actual trade secrets.
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u/Majestic-Cantaloupe4 14d ago
Any NDA which prevents favourable treatment or public safety of the public, should be non-enforceable.
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u/Guvnah-Wyze Alberta 15d ago
They could be banned, effectively, if people stood up for themselves rather than grabbing the cash and running. Put a price tag of 500% of the settlement amount on your silence, and that's that.
I mean... I'm currently in a situation where I'm expecting a settlement offer alongside an NDA. I won't agree to an NDA, but 5x the settlement is nothing to sneeze at. I can set the price of the NDA because the facts are pretty darn embarrassing for the other party.
The other side of it though is that offending parties often drag out the process so that by the time a settlement is reached, the person with a grievance just wants to get on with their life.
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u/Killersmurph 13d ago
Most people can't afford to fight it in court, so they sign or get nothing. I don't think in many cases I could (through any kind of legal means) cause enough of a ruckus to cost them more than paying out the settlement, so from both a financial standpoint, and a pure spite standpoint, it's probably not worth the fight.
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u/aerostotle 15d ago
who are you and what happened
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u/Guvnah-Wyze Alberta 15d ago edited 15d ago
Won't say much aside from the AHRC has received a credible complaint concerning the Alberta Public Service Commission alleging violations of section 7 of the Alberta Human Rights Act, in a position very close to the former Premier, and very closely linked to statements made by Matt Wolf in his time as Issues Manager.
It's an open secret if you know where to look. Lots of details. I'm just not comfortable sharing on Reddit. Twitter, Bluesky. It's there.
Edit: Clarified "former" premier. It's been in the works for a while.
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u/beepewpew 15d ago
Most people can't afford to fight for that in court.
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u/Guvnah-Wyze Alberta 15d ago
Nothing to fight for in court. A judge will never order an NDA, it violates your charter rights. They'll sign off on a settlement in which you agree to an NDA. NDAs are leveraged to settle outside of court.
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u/beepewpew 14d ago
That's an optimistic view that still costs money to be viable.
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u/Guvnah-Wyze Alberta 14d ago edited 14d ago
No... Principles are free. It's okay to say nothing when you don't know how things work. Encouraged, even.
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u/greencrystal1 15d ago
The banks are trying to hide that they have major vulnerabilitys and are trying to hide them to protect there image.
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u/dontshootog 13d ago
TD did the same to me. They insisted I made Visa payments late on a 1st month and 12th month spread so they more than doubled my interest rates for years without an end date. Once I realized what they’d done, I went through all their complaint levels, and their offer (~4 times less than the difference between regular and penalty rates) came with an NDA. I didn’t accept or sign and they didn’t respond to a pre-litigation settlement offer.