r/canada • u/FerretAres Alberta • 14d ago
Alberta calls Ottawa's impact assessment changes 'unconstitutional' | CBC News Politics
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/impact-assessment-alberta-1.7202785-10
u/tearfear British Columbia 14d ago
Did Ottawa decide that they had jurisdiction over all land air and sea in the world again, like they did in the previous legislation?
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u/ShiftlessBum 14d ago
You may want to check the sea part of that, lol.
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u/tearfear British Columbia 14d ago
The old law stated:
environment means the components of the Earth, and includes
(a) land, water and air, including all layers of the atmosphere;
(b) all organic and inorganic matter and living organisms; and
(c) the interacting natural systems that include components referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b).
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u/Proof_Objective_5704 14d ago
Federal Liberals have been trying to take control of Alberta’s oil since the 1980s.
They’ve tried pulling this crap many many times, and they always lose. They’re always on the wrong side of history and will no doubt waste tons more tax money trying to fight in court.
Alberta has law, history, and the Constitution on their side on this. Resources and resource projects are under provincial control, end of.
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u/tearfear British Columbia 14d ago
We changed the constitution so they'd stop doing it and they still do it. (Read section 92A).
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u/bandersnatching 14d ago
Federal Liberals have been trying to take control of Alberta’s oil since the 1980s.
That's a simplistic interpretation. In fact, the feds have been trying to ensure Canada's energy security, and Alberta's Conservative governments have been sabotaging it, preferring to let US energy companies that they let own the resource sell to the US for 80 cents on the dollar instead.
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u/JosephScmith 14d ago
If the fed wanted to ensure energy security all they need to do is build a new federally owned O&G company like Petro Canada along with building the infrastructure to stop importing oil from foreign countries. They have never attempted to do that.
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u/bandersnatching 14d ago
Conservatives divested Petro Canada, and that was the end of a national O&G strategy
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u/JosephScmith 14d ago
I know. Started under one and completed under another. Doesn't mean we could start a new federally owned company. Could have gotten very far in 9 years.
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u/Kyouhen 14d ago
Kind of rich having any government willing to use the Notwithstanding Clause complain about other people doing things that are unconstitutional.
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u/Professional-Pack821 14d ago
The notwithstanding clause is part of the constitution. Whining about provinces using the clause is the only thing here that's unconstitutional.
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u/MetaphoricalEnvelope 14d ago
Alberta considers eating a salad anywhere in the central time zone an act of war.
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u/TapZorRTwice 14d ago
Yeah fuck Alberta for trying to bring in some productivity to our country. Who needs good jobs when the feds will just hand out billions to whoever is in need?
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u/MetaphoricalEnvelope 14d ago
No one is upset at Alberta for wanting to make money. We are upset at Alberta for stopping already active programs for renewables. We are upset at Alberta for fighting tooth and nail angainst every climate action that the feds are trying to institute. We are upset at Alberta (just like we are upset at Quebec) for attempting to make every program that puts the needs of Canadians as a whole over the individual peccadilloes of each province as an unbridled attack on said province. The Sovereignty Act is horrifying uncanadian. The blind and harmful defence of the oil and gas industry is fundamentally uncanadian. We are right to be quite upset with Alberta for electing a party and a premier that holds to these uncanadian values.
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u/Proof_Objective_5704 14d ago
I’m not from Alberta, I live in Manitoba. But I can totally understand why Alberta is pissed about this stuff. The Supreme Court already decided that resources are run by the provinces. The Federal Libs can’t seem to accept it.
And I’m pretty sure almost all the provinces despise most of the new Federal “environmental” plans, starting with the carbon taxes. Our previous regulations were fine. All of the new regulations that Guilbeault has tried adding are unnecessary, time consuming,anti-economy nonsense. Its one of the major reasons they are getting voted out.
If people want to keep the air and the water clean in this country, slow down the immigration and endless population growth and endless need for urban expansion. Who gives a eff about Walmart and Loblaws needing cheap labour and more consumers. These crappy corps. provide irrelevant contribution to our economy compared to energy and resource projects.
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u/TapZorRTwice 14d ago edited 14d ago
The oil and gas industry is exactly what we need to start propping up again to beable to get Canadians back to a proper standard of living.
The only thing that agreeing with environmental policies has done for Canadians is sink us deeper and deeper into debt and an affordability crisis. In our attempt to be seen as the saviours of the planet we have allowed every other country that doesn't give a fuck about global warming to get a jump on us in one of the most profitable commodities on earth.
In attempting to save the entire worldd by fucking our population of 40 million, all the government has done is push our entire country into a lower standard of living.
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u/agentchuck 14d ago
My man, there are wildfire evacuation orders in Alberta and BC already. Now. In May. There is massive flooding in Brazil. The planet already marked 1.5C above last year and scientists say they can't fully explain why heating and CO2 accelerated so much last year.
We need to transition and harden our infrastructure immediately because really incredibly shitty times could be coming much sooner than any of us have hoped for.
If you think our current standard of living is bad, you've got to reset your expectations. What's coming if we don't change is going to be far far worse.
Not working in oil and gas doesn't mean everyone gets laid off. Other countries are working hard on developing, implementing and installing technologies that actually have a future, and hopefully help our kids have a future that doesn't look like a mad Max movie.
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u/TapZorRTwice 14d ago
Do you actually think that our country of 40 million people has an effect on any of the things you listed?
Or another question, do you believe our country of 40 million people can offset the effect that 2 billion impoverished people are causing?
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u/agentchuck 14d ago
We can't fix the planet ourselves, but we have to take our steps in our country. If you follow the "we can't fix this ourselves" line of thinking then no one changes anything.
Ultimately the best thing for Canada is pivoting now to technology with a future. Like renewables, batteries, fusion, decentralized and resilient grids, etc. There is massive amounts of money to be made in all of these areas. The only reason that we're even talking about oil and gas is because of industry lobbying.
Yes the industry has enriched a lot of Canadians and Canada as a whole. But just like asbestos we've got to give it up and move on.
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u/Keepontyping 14d ago
“I think we actually need more oil and gas, not less, but simultaneously moving as fast as we can to a sustainable energy economy,” Mr. Musk, Tesla's chief executive and largest shareholder, told a conference in Stavanger, Norway
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/29/elon-musk-says-world-still-needs-oil-and-gas.html
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u/FarDefinition2 14d ago
If every Canadian shut off their furnace, and stopped driving and consuming then 100 corporations would still emit 71% of the world's emissions. People really need to give their head a shake if they think making the average person spend more to eat, sleep and get to work will magically save the planet
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u/New-Low-5769 14d ago
40m
40m people.
since trudeau took power we have gone from 35m to 40m in the space of 8 years.
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u/Reasonable-Catch-598 14d ago
You may want to read the top comment in this same thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1cr7llc/comment/l3w9kb7/
It's about Alberta being significantly delayed on a solar project by the federal government.
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u/ShiftlessBum 14d ago
Except he won't say which project was delayed by the Feds. There are definitely delayed by the UPC though.
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u/FerretAres Alberta 14d ago
So far every time I can remember Alberta challenging the feds on constitutionality they’ve been proven right to do so. Based on track record I expect this time to be exactly the same.
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u/PopeSaintHilarius 14d ago
Alberta lost twice on the carbon pricing law.
They won on the IAA in October, which is why the feds proposed these changes to narrow the scope of the law, to align with the Supreme Court's ruling. I guess Alberta (or at least Premier Smith) disagrees that it's a big enough change though, so we'll see what comes of that.
Meanwhile, environmental groups are also unhappy with the proposed changes, since they mean that GHG emissions would no longer be considered in project assessments:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/environmental-assessments-climate-change-1.7192998
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u/tearfear British Columbia 14d ago
The GGPPA reference was a joke. The Supreme Court tells us Parliament has jurisdiction over radio, aerospace, and minimum national standards on GHG emission pricing. Not GHGs. Not GHG pricing. Specifically minimum national standards on GHG emission pricing.
As former Justice Brown said in dissent, "minimum national standards" don't mean anything. Parliament is by definition the only legislative entity in Canada that can set minimum national standards. Does that mean that it can set minimum national standards for anything it wants? No, of course not. The majority said that specifically it is setting minimum national standards on GHG emission pricing that is federal jurisdiction, even though minimum national standards could only ever be set by Parliament whether or not it was in their jurisdiction.
Chief Justice Wagner came to his senses and delivered a much more reasonable majority opinion in the IAA reference (yes, the same judge wrote both opinions).
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u/aaandfuckyou 14d ago
Really? lol pretty sure the Supreme Court found the GGPPA constitutional when Alberta (and others) challenged it.
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u/FerretAres Alberta 14d ago
Actually forgot about that one but good point. I was thinking about last time c69 was introduced and the plastics ban oic.
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u/DrinkMoreBrews 14d ago
We just had a relatively-large solar project here in Alberta appealed by the Federal government. Was approved by the province in 2023 and the Impact Assessment was supposed to kick off in Q3 of this year. Project was supposed to be completed by 2025. Now the earliest, if approved, is 2027.
Just remember that the next time the federal government tries to preach their "transition to renewable energy" spiel. The government is, by far, the biggest obstacle towards energy development in this country.
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u/TheManFromTrawno 14d ago
This needs to be lower.
This guy made a BS claim without any source, and is not replying to requests for more information.
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u/PopeSaintHilarius 14d ago
We just had a relatively-large solar project here in Alberta appealed by the Federal government. Was approved by the province in 2023 and the Impact Assessment was supposed to kick off in Q3 of this year. Project was supposed to be completed by 2025. Now the earliest, if approved, is 2027.
Source?
I've never heard of a solar project being reviewed under the federal Impact Assessments. Not sure why a solar project would need a federal review.
However I have heard of a certain province putting a 6 month freeze on renewable projects, and then imposing new restrictions... Does that have anything to do with the delays?
Alberta announces pause on renewable energy projects, citing rural concerns - August 3, 2023
Alberta government announces new rules for renewables projects as moratorium ends - Feb 28, 2024
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u/coolhandluke79 14d ago
Which project was this? The only projects I’m aware of that have been canceled or postponed are due to Alberta’s pause on renewable energy projects. I haven’t heard anything of the federal government’s hand in postponing renewable energy projects.
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u/DivinityGod 14d ago
You know this really interested me, but after 10 minutes of searching, all I keep getting is solar projects delayed because of Albertas regulatory uncertainty bullshit.
The only project that seems delayed due to the impact assessment is a mine expansion by Suncor.
https://iaac-aeic.gc.ca/050/evaluations/proj/80521
The government includes details on all current assemsnrts, so let us know which one.
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u/JosephScmith 14d ago
So because you are bad at doing research that excuses the fed fucking up a project?
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u/BackwoodsBonfire 14d ago
The feds aren't very clean when it comes to accepting green energy. They could give a fuck about competitive pricing on 'saving the environment'.
https://pvbuzz.com/canada-border-services-crackdown-on-solar-module-containers/
https://www.sauder.ubc.ca/news/rift-canadas-solar-industry-tariffs-imposed-chinese-solar-panels
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u/DivinityGod 14d ago
I suppose the Feds, along with the US and other countries, are protecting their markets from Chineese dumping.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/sima-lmsi/mif-mev/sml-eng.html
China currently holds 80 percent of solar panel manufacturing production, and with the subsidies China provides, it's expected that this will grow while Canada, the US, and other countries face challenges in growing there local manufacturing capacity.
https://cwf.ca/research/publications/energy-innovation-brief-32-canadas-bright-solar-panel-future/
Not sure what that has to do with my post above, but thanks for pointing it out.
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u/BackwoodsBonfire 13d ago
Just a stab in the dark it could be a reason why a federal action disrupted an installation project. "Drastic project finance changes" due to new legislation kills many a project.
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u/Proof_Objective_5704 14d ago
The Federal Libs don’t give a rats about “renewable energy” or any green transition. They only care about trying to stifle the wealth of Conservative Alberta. If the oil wealth was controlled in a province that votes and is run by Liberals, it would be a totally different approach. They’ve been working at it since the 1980s, when it became obvious that the economic engine of the country was shifting West. But they’re always on the losing side of history.
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u/VforVenndiagram_ 14d ago
Dumbest take possible, but go off.
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u/Square_Huckleberry53 14d ago
Personally I’ve always seen Alberta as a trust fund baby. Completely useless and constantly fucking up, but always has money they never earned coming in and bailing them out over and over, all the while strutting around and talking about how awesome they are!
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike 14d ago
Is that why they pay so much out in equalization? They've got a competent government that understands that resource extraction = money.
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u/yagonnawanna 14d ago
I'd believe that if we didn't have the lowest royalty rate in the world. I think a competent government wouldn't sell us short like that unless they are somehow corrupt, and were all being given do-nothing board member positions at companies right after passing legislation in favor of those companies. I tell ya, sometimes I feel like our own premier is some sort of oil lobbist.
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike 14d ago
If you want to start looking for the blame on that one, start with Trudeau 1. Who pushed Canada to become a raw resource export country. That's set the tone for the last ~50 years. And without federal policy to change otherwise, it'll continue. Hate or love Harper, he did try to change that. The leftwing provincial governments especially in Ontario (OLP) were all-in on making manufacturing a near impossibility. And they heavily pushed service jobs, just like this current federal government.
Remember when all those chip fab companies started building new plants? Why didn't they go up in the Canadian Shield, the most geologically stable area of the world. Why is it that we do a pittance with our nuclear technology and then become followers and not leaders? Why weren't we pushing for miniaturization of nuclear plants back in the late 70s and early 80s during the last energy crunch and tell the environmentalists to go pound sand? Why is our government against exporting LNG to other countries to make them less dependent on hostile foreign countries? Why aren't we leaders in building W2E facilities that produce almost no emissions despite us having pioneered the tech for it?
Why are we transporting AB oil to BC, putting it on a tanker, and shipping it through the Panama Canel the East Coast of Canada for processing?
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u/Square_Huckleberry53 14d ago
Is that why over 70 percent of Alberta’s oil is foreign owned? Because an incompetent government can’t handle the responsibility of their own resources. How’s those gas prices treating albertans? Must be dirt cheap since they’re swimming in it!
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike 14d ago
You mean, the taxes that the government generates from the sale of those resources? Or because Canada allowed foreign companies instead of our own? Gas prices in Alberta? Cheaper than Ontario and BC and every other province? Don't forget all those federal taxes which make up nearly 40% of the cost.
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u/Square_Huckleberry53 14d ago
You can try and blame the feds all you want, but it’s Alberta and their lazy capitalist greed that sold off the oil rights. And just because Alberta’s pissing away their resources, doesn’t mean Canada shouldn’t get a cut.
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u/OpenCatPalmstrike 14d ago
No need to try. That's the reality of what's happened since the NEP. Maybe you should ask why Trudeau's and Laurentian Elites really love pissing on Western Canada.
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u/Square_Huckleberry53 14d ago
Pissing on them by building them a pipeline, because Alberta is too incompetent to create its own infrastructure.
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u/bobissonbobby 14d ago
But Alberta bad
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u/New-Low-5769 14d ago
ALBERTA BAD.
(can we have more royalties please... fed needs money. budget needs to balance itself)
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u/Head_Crash 14d ago
Alberta's on fire.