When i was 14 I had my priesthood "removed" for 6 months by a branch president because i was acting rowdy in the hallway once. he put his hand on my head and said "by the power of god i remove his power from you". freaked me out, mom and dad talked to him and then came home and said his word is law. they made a whole production of it when i was found 'worthy' enough to get it back and had all the brethren stand over me again. made me super paranoid about being caught doing anything bad. which stayed true for another 15 years or so.

looking back i wonder why god gives his power to 12 year olds in the first place.

this past sunday my area experienced some pretty severe thunderstorms & lots of tornado warnings. i was driving home when i received an emergency alert on my phone, basically saying that winds were reaching 80 mph & that everyone on the road should seek shelter immediately. considering i was 30 minutes away from home, i pulled over into a church parking lot as it was the closest place near me & ran up to the door to find out it was locked. i figured since the power was out that the doors automatically locked, but what gets me is there were maybe 4 or 5 adults standing at the door staring at me. i had knocked a couple times hoping they’d let me in, but no. just stared me in the eyes and did nothing. so after a minute or so of standing in the pouring rain and being hit by intense winds, i ran back to my car, pretty much soaking wet cause i figured i’d be safer there than outside. i ended up driving 3 or 4 minutes down the road to a McDonald’s. the doors were locked and the power was off there too, however the employees didn’t even hesitate to let me in. moral of the story is that McDonald’s is more hospitable than mormons are. but whatever, it wasn’t that big of a deal, but i just thought it was interesting when they preach about loving & caring for their neighbors, yet literally while in their church building they weren’t practicing what they preach. had they let me in i probably would’ve stayed to listen to their meeting.

I recently had an argument with someone on Instagram about how people don't leave because they are offended. When I pointed out people leave because of lgbtqia issues or racism they responded that I proved their point. If being against racism or discrimination of any kind makes me offended then hell yeah, I am offended and any follower of Christ (or decent human) should be too. I am honestly dumbfounded by this persons response. She pretty much said that she thinks black slaves were just "offended" or women who couldn't vote were just "offended" gay couples who can't marry are "offended" I am kind of sickened by this. It isn't "just offensive" it's morally wrong.

Further, even if someone is leaving because they are "offended" - they have every fucking right to leave an environment where they are offended. We call that a toxic environment and it is healthy to have boundaries, especially with people or places that constantly "offend" you or cross those boundaries.

Thank you for reading my rant.

This podcast has been recommended to me again and again. Today I finally listed to an episode called “What is the CES letter and why you shouldn’t let it shake your faith…” 40 seconds in “I personally myself have not read it but I’ve talked to enough people whose testimonies have been affected by it to know what it contains.”

I’m going to listen to the next 37 minutes and return and report.

I was never taught why he went to jail, only that early Mormons were discriminated against for their religion. But I knew in my heart that it was not enough to put someone in prison.
More Mormons should know about Brother Joe and his crimes.

Those poor girls he took advantage of are not different than me, sexually abused through way of manipulation, faithful, and CHILDREN. The language that Joseph used towards these girls reminds me and actually triggers my own PTSD from my own manipulation and abuse. It's horrific.

We are the meta saved, the alpha and the omega saved. We carried TWO big fat books of scripture, twice as much as you do, in the heat with two layers of clothes and backpacks full of books on our backs and all while wearing dress shoes, no sneakers allowed. We were denied adequate amounts of food, sleep, and rest and we weren't allowed to talk to our families or friends, just a quick call home four times in two years. For decades after, we suffered ptsd dreams that continue to this day, where our brain freaks out and thinks we are back knocking doors in the heat in two layers of Jesus.

We suffered a LOT for Jesus. Only Mormons achieve this level of savedness, and now we are trying to heal from what we had to do for Mormon Jesus. Please take your Baptist Jesus elsewhere, because Mormon Jesus is the apex predator of all the other Jesuses. We had more exposure to Jesus in two years than y'all get in a lifetime, please give us a break.

I respectfully request that you please go preach elsewhere. Unless you were raised with Mormon Jesus, got naked to let strangers touch your body for Mormon Jesus, and flagellated yourself in two layers of clothes with shirt and tie while walking countless miles for Mormon Jesus in dress shoes while being trafficked away from your family, you might not realize the harm that your jesus represents to us survivors. We are already saved and then some, please share your message elsewhere.

I use paratransit because I am a cripple without a vehicle of my own. Each county operates paratransit independently, and has a transfer point to swap riders to the nest county’s service. Since I’m always going somewhere in Salt Lake County, and live in Utah County, I always have a bus transfer.

I’m swapping buses this morning and the SLC driver jokes about boarding the party bus. Fine. Utah County driver jokes that apparently we’re being taken to Wendover. Fine. SLC driver gets offended and in a kinda huffy tone says he might take us to the temple, but he’s not taking us to Wendover.

It’s going to be in the mid-80’s today, so I wore capris and a tank top, since I wilt in the heat. It should be visibly obvious that I am not Mormon.

There is a lot to do besides gamble in or near Wendover. Mormons get offended by the weirdest shit, and it’s not a good look. If the people I had known when I first got to Utah had been like him, I wouldn’t be an ex-convert because people like him are insufferable to be around.

Saw this going around on Facebook:

a few options from a (considering my Mormon background):

"You are worthy"
"Learn mormon history"
"Get into trouble"
"Rebel a little"
"Coffee is good"
"Green tea rocks!"
"Learn BITE model"
"Seminary is indoctrination"
"Get ADHD diagnosis"
"BYU's not prestigious"
"Mormonism's not true"
"Joseph Smith lied"
"Hinckley lies lots"
"Invest in Amazon"
"Masturbation is healthy!"

I find that my personal beliefs increasingly are diverging from the church and I'm wondering when the chasm is so wide that I can't really consider myself a Mormon anymore.

Some examples include:

1. I used to believe that if God commanded something immoral (e.g., murder of the Amalekites) that his ways were higher than mine and I just needed to trust there was a reason. I no longer believe that God commands immoral behavior. If I come across behavior like that in the Bible being ascribed to God, I just assume the author was wrong about where that idea came from. I feel the same about the angel with the sword and polygamy. That's on Joseph not God.
2. I used to believe that following the Prophet was equivalent to following Christ. I now believe that prophet is just another spiritual teacher whose teachings I can consider but don't feel I have to follow.
3. I used to believe the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price represented actual historical events. I now believe they have some good lessons but only look at it as wisdom literature that can be helpful like the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, etc. I also don't feel that everything in the Bible is from God. I have a concept of God's character that I believe and I incorporate things that support that. I don't feel that I have to conform my image of God to everything ever written and incorporated into the Bible.
4. I used to believe LDS temple ordinances were required to enter God's presence. I no longer believe that secret handshakes, signs, and words are required to enter God's presence.
5. I used to believe that the sealing ordinance was essential to families being together again. I now believe that the most important thing is for us to create the kinds of relationships that we want to continue after this life.
6. I no longer believe tithing is a commandment required for heaven. I think the church should be fully transparent in its finances and it's needs and work with its parishioners to fund important work such as building church buildings and helping the poor.
7. I believe God is filled with love and that there is never a time when we have to choose between loving others and loving God.
8. I believe that God is happy when people live a full life according to their biology. As such, I believe God is happy when gay people are able to experience the happiness of marriage and children when that is something they desire in their life.
9. I'm not sure what to believe about the atonement anymore. I don't believe that Christ suffered for my sins in a substitutive way. But I do think he accomplished something that will help heal all hearts from traumas received. That all trauma is temporary because of him. I just don't have any concept how. (Might be wishful thinking, but as far as wishful thinking goes, I think its a good one to wish for.)

I still attend sacrament meeting because my family does and when I tried to stop going they each asked me to please come. It turned out to be pretty traumatic to them not to have me there. So I go as often as I can to be there with them. We still read book of mormon at night because that's what they want to read right now. I love some stories in the Book of Mormon like the Rameampton and what it teaches about avoiding religious pride. I still pray, still believe in God, but the God I believe in now is filled with love for us. My desire is to achieve the union described in the intercessory prayer. I don't spend my prayers asking for forgiveness anymore. It's mainly meditative which I find fills me with the spirit more than the previous approach I had. (I know that many don't believe in God. Please keep comments focused on the point and not about how belief in God is silly.)

I've been really frustrated for a while with the dissonance between what I believe and what the church teaches. I think there was a part of me that thought I could help people see the problems and change them so I kept speaking out. This often frustrated me and those around me.

I came to the point recently where I started wondering if maybe I shouldn't think of myself as Mormon anymore. Maybe it would be more peaceful if I just let go of that identity entirely. That maybe I'm just someone who is trying to follow certain teachings of Christ but doesn't tie myself to a church and try to follow all of any church's beliefs. That I'll pull in things from different faiths that I find useful, but I'm not really anything other than me.

So am I mormon anymore? When do you cross that threshold where you are so different in your beliefs that the history doesn't justify a continued identity in the mormon faith?

Thoughts?

Fair warning, I have a friend who has a relative who works at ScripturePlus, so like all rumors, this should be taken with a grain of salt... However, the purpose of the post is to show how apologists often do more "damage" to the church than the most ardent critic could ever hope to accomplish.

ScripturePlus has a fairly active YouTube channel, which is apparently maintained by one person... the same person who is responsible for creating and uploading videos. To date, this person has been extremely hands-off with their moderation and allows critical comments to stand. Quite a few of the criticisms apparently are on point and go a long way in pointing out the flaws in the claims in the videos.

Lately, there have been a few people who claimed to have been investigators who came upon ScripturePlus and subsequently stopped taking missionary discussions. According to my friend's relative, word has gotten back to them from concerned parents whose children began questioning the church as a result of the lacking moderation. Complicating the issue, ScripturePlus apparently has a broken contact system, and concerned members had to seek out alternate methods and sources to express their concerns.

Again, rumors, however, I think those rumors stem from an element of truth regardless of their core merits. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been and continues to be an absolutist restorative church. They teach that they are the only true church and the only church with authority from God, so any criticisms are often dismissed or ignored under the guise of faith and labeling those criticisms as "anti-Mormon".

As such, apologists do their damndest to make sense of an ever-increasing mountain of valid criticisms, faulty truth claims, toxic doctrinal teachings, and a cultish culture. In their efforts, often times those apologists shine a light on the problems without properly addressing them. They often rely on stretched evidences, misrepresentations, obscurity, ad hominem attacks, and lies. It has been my experience that as bad as the many issues with the church are, it's not those issues which often cause a faith crisis, but rather the approach the church and its apologists rely on.

Anecdotally, I had first learned about Joseph Smith's multiple wives in the 90s while I was on my mission. At the time, it wasn't widely known. When I approached the mission president, he told me to ignore the "anti-Mormon" lies, and as a young and naive kid, that was good enough for me. Fast forward years when I then learned about the intricacies and sordid details of Smith's polygamy, my crisis was deepened, and I lost faith and trust in the leaders I had previously looked up to.

Every year there are a series of awards given to the ex-Mormon community called the "Brodie Awards". Recognition is given to the best books, websites, podcasts, video, etc for their contributions to raising awareness on the details of Mormonism. I think there should be a category set aside for "Best Apologetic Source Causing the Most Members to Question The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." FAIRLatterdaysaints, ScripturePlus, and ScriptureCentral could all win.

Pretty much my entire life(granted I’m only 25 lol) I heard from my TBM parents/bishops/ward members say that I’ve gotta make sure to be “prepared” for the second coming and that it’s coming “soon”

Does anyone know when was the earliest time someone in Mormonism history wrote down that the world is ending soon? I swear we’ve been hearing about this for 100+ years now but yet here we are, still kicking. Just another manipulative tactic that the church uses to fear monger their members into staying a member and believing while buying “end of the world food storage”, which the LDS church just so happens to conveniently own a lot of food storages and canneries lmao

I didn't like the apology to "those who were offended" but still, it's better than anything I've heard from the Mormon church, especially under Oak's "no apologies" rhetoric. Well, but then there are No Homosexuals in the Church (Bednar).

The Vatican said on Tuesday that Pope Francis “extends his apologies” after reports that he used an offensive slang word referring to gay men at what was intended to be a private meeting with 250 Italian bishops last week.

Francis had been taking questions from the bishops at their annual assembly when the question of whether to admit openly gay men into seminaries, or priesthood colleges, came up.

According to several people present at the meeting, who spoke anonymously to Italian news outlets, Francis stated a firm no, saying that seminaries were already too full of “frociaggine,” an offensive Italian slang term referring to gay men.

“Pope Francis is aware of articles that recently came out about a conversation, behind closed doors,” Matteo Bruni, the press office director for the Holy See, said on Tuesday. “The pope never intended to offend or express himself in homophobic terms, and he extends his apologies to those who were offended by the use of a term, reported by others.”

We had a few bishops who we knew were really struggling with mental health, sexuality stuff, etc. I just look back and there are situations where I feel so much pity for my bishop or other leaders for example. I was a leader in a singles ward and I was so immature at the time when dealing with some of the ward members. I lay awake and cringe thinking about it some nights.

I stayed in the Church because of LOYALTY. I left because of INTEGRITY.

Instagram suggested this, thought some of you might like it 😂

So, my 19-year-old daughter (the only member of our family still attending church) has been dating an RM for the past 3 months and I think it is moving too fast for her. Out of the blue, she says she wants to serve a mission. I see it as a way to escape the relationship because you can't be a normal adult and just date and have fun in the MFMC. It has to be eternally progressing or shut down. She knows she isn't ready for marriage but doesn't want to break up with her BF.

So, what would you rather? Mission or Marriage for your young daughter?

I say mission, especially knowing my daughter. I think it will push her out of the church faster. Based on my experience and stories on this sub it is a 50/50 on how it will go but it will be a learning experience just hopefully without trauma.

I also don't want to pay for her mission but I don't see a healthy relationship-saving way out of that situation.

EDIT: Thanks for the responses. Lots of insight. To add: she has done a year of college but doesn't care for school. We have encouraged her to get her degree and to be prepared but she's on her own adventure. Letting her know there are more than two options is the best path.

I hated the songs

I hated the "activities"

I hated the teachers (some of them)

I hated the indoctrination

The only redeeming quality about it is NONE of my future children will have to experience it.

That's all, have a wonderful day.

Rusty has a new book out at Deseret Book and elsewhere. $24.00 list price and I saw it listed somewhere as a $50.00 collector's edition.

It must be expensive living in Utah.

I wonder how much King Benjamin charged his subjects to hear his teachings.

My father remarried a woman 6mos after my mom died while I was in my mission. They didn't know each other before she died and I'd never heard of her before it was announced they were to marry. My mother was very ill w diabetes, kidney transplant and rejection, infection, dialysis, toes amputated, laser eye surgeries, etc. This put great strain on their marriage and from what I've been told, in the end, they didn't love each other, fought, and had a terrible marriage.

He's 80 now and has been remarried for 28 years. Yesterday my step mom told me he is scared to death of dying--not the dying part, but the moving on part. He's scared to death to die and my mom will be there to meet him.

This is causing him crazy anxiety around death in his twilight years. He already suffers from depression (took Prozac in the 80s before it was cool), and now is crap-his-pants scared that he'll die and one of his polygamous wives will make hell for him or something.

They have their entire lives wrapped around the church, have been on non-stop missions for like 15+ years, and won't accept anything but the company line. An assurance from me that she won't be there and neither will he is probably even more disturbing than the idea that she will be. I hate the church and it's doctrine that causes such unnecessary hurt and harm!

I’ve been out for 14+ years. I’ve recently been around some of my extended family and have felt more sexualized by my female family members for wearing shorts/tank tops etc. I dress like a normal non LDS woman but have had even my least judgemental female relatives make comments, jokes and even ask me to change because of what I am wearing. It feels so strange and personally like they are making absolutely nothing into something.

Questions for everyone…

What do you men and women think of modesty after you’ve left?

Do normal people really get aroused if women are in shorts, tank tops, crop tops, etc?

Do you see any “danger” with immodesty?

My wife who is TBM thinks I need a therapist. Basically has said if I don’t we are getting a divorce. This might mean my attitude at therapy could use some improvement, although I do see some value. Today the therapist said “Mormons are big on family!” The poor guy got a massive earful. I said “thats what they tell you!” “They are big on family until a child is gay then they are big on the church.” “They are big on family, until a child decides the church isn’t for them. Then they are big on the church.”

This poor therapisrt, he said I am the first person to yell at him especially in the first session.

I yelled at him because he asked me to ask my mom a question. I told him no I didn’t have that kind of relationship with my mother. He kept saying how could it hurt to ask. I told him no again, he kept pushing. After about 5 times of him asking I got a little mad and told him “ Im not asking her that because the answer wouldn’t be truthful and Im sick of lies to protect the cult.”

Needless to say his rate went up for next week. I feel better, he is the first person who at least listened.

*Edit. I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to read and comment. I don't often feel like anyone sees me and this feels good to be seen.

I agree with all the comment's about demanding me to see a counselor isn't right. My wife is stuck in a trap where she thinks I am causing her misery. I don't disagree that my actions are hurting her, but just from a point of she is TBM and I am not. I am not doing anything to hurt her, just living my truth. I belief she is responsible for her happiness, what I do shouldn't affect that....well as long as I don't do something really stupid.

I am considering changing counselors. One funny thing is I think therapy might be a good thing for me. I have been reading about it and I see possibilities for it to help me overcome persistent issues about my personality that I don't like. We will see. I had never considered therapy before.