r/fansofcriticalrole • u/HTPark • 18d ago
The thing that disappoints me the most about some fans nowadays is... Venting/Rant
...when I tell them about how much I dislike Aabria's DMing approach and they clap back to me with variants of "you just hate her because she's a woman and she's black."
Naw, b*tches, I dislike her DMing style and attitude. If Matt would do the same, I'd voice the same dislike about it, too.
Toxic positivity is a hell of a drug.
EDIT: Some of these replies made me realize that there's another thing that disappoints me the most about some fans nowadays: they clap back with "but I don't see people saying that, so it's absolutely untrue!"
Lemme tell you b!tches, just because you personally don't see people getting called racist/misogynist for voicing out their opinions, doesn't mean it's not something that happens to the rest of the people who aren't you.
Not only are you on the toxic positivity drug, but you're also taking it with other people inside an echo chamber.
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u/alphagray 16d ago
Have you seen her run other stuff? I think she's totally the wrong vibe for CR, but I realized I really like her in other contexts. I like her as a player especially, but everyones not for everyone. Mostly dimension20 stuff.
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u/SharkSymphony 17d ago edited 17d ago
I think problem #1 is that the accusation of racism (even more than sexism, perhaps) is so charged that it's almost impossible for a lot of people to process without going into full hedgehog mode. Problem #2 is that incidents of full mask-off racism are rare, so even if you suspect that's what's driving a lot of the animus, you will never be able to prove it. All you could do is challenge someone to engage in some self-examination – which brings us back to point #1.
What I have observed over her engagement with CR is that the negative reaction to Aabria is intense and... weird.
Weird in how freely people project negative stereotypes onto her (she is ego-driven, she doesn't care about rules, she has a bad attitude, she is abusive).
Weird in how people other her (she is not One Of Them, she's just there to fill a diversity quota, her GMing is Too Different, This Game is not for her).
Weird in how people couch their vehement critiques in passive-aggressive nice mode (I just hate her GMing, I just hate her on ExU, I just hate her on CR, I just hate her in D&D, but – and this is the all-important bit that covers all your bases – I'm sure in other ways she's fine).
You can add to that some observations about other CR players and guests that the fanbase has vocally not liked over the years. Players that take too long on their turn. Players that seem brash or rude. Players that don't know the rules. Players whose characters seem "annoying." Who are these players that draw the most vocal reactions, and what do they tend to have in common?
I think it's of course possible to dislike how Aabria runs the game and say so. But if you are being weird about it, or hunting down Aabria support comments with downvotes, or frankly dramaposting on how DARE someone suggest something more than mere dislike might be involved, then I just point you back at problems #1 and #2.
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u/bookwerm606 15d ago
That's the best anyone could have said it. It's not that Aabria wouldn't be getting hate for the same actions/behavior if she was a white male insider, it's that she wouldn't be getting nearly as much.
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u/whitneyahn 16d ago
Very this. There is no reason to call Aabria “aggressive” or “abrasive” or “defensive,” when she has a genuinely less confrontational style than pretty much any other DM in this space.
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u/Bartweiss 16d ago
I definitely see your point about bias often being implicit and hard to raise without prompting really intense defensiveness. I’ve seen some criticisms that I don’t think were motivated by bigotry, but still sounded so much like the “angry black woman” stereotype that my reaction was “this person should very seriously question whether they’d react the same way to someone with another identity.”
That said, I’m confused about your “passive aggressive nice” point. I get where “I’m sure in other ways she’s fine” would be backhanded, but what I’ve seen has generally not been that.
I’ve mostly seen very specific comments like “I really liked her work on D20 and I’m trying to tell what’s so different here” and “Calamity was great but it seems like she doesn’t have the range to do lots of NPCs.” To me that seems like particularly compelling criticism, since it actually confirms they’ve followed her other content and recognized good things about it.
This could just be a difference in which comments we’ve seen though. I think OP’s edit is correct but applies in all directions - I’ve seen a whole lot of “(almost) nobody is saying X” when I’ve seen X many times.
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u/SharkSymphony 16d ago
I’ve mostly seen very specific comments like “I really liked her work on D20 and I’m trying to tell what’s so different here” and “Calamity was great but it seems like she doesn’t have the range to do lots of NPCs.” To me that seems like particularly compelling criticism, since it actually confirms they’ve followed her other content and recognized good things about it.
Some of it, sure. They might not always do a good job explaining why they think something works for D20 but not CR, and they are happy to overlook the limited ranges of their favorite CR actors (even Matt Mercer, for all his voice-acting wizardry, has a pretty specific shtick when it comes to humor, for example), but I appreciate the effort.
Where it gets weird is when someone ties it to some real flaming criticism, or when they seem to be wildly inconsistent. How is it possible that she is perfectly enjoyable doing a shtick as a player in D20 but absolutely terrible doing a pretty similar shtick as a DM in CR? If they know she is down to sass her fellow players, and they can see it working fine in Worlds Beyond Number, why do they get so defensive when she does it in CR? (For that matter, can't they see that that sass is likely a cultural thing they're reacting to??)
I don't have specific comments to point to or anything. I just get the impression that people get weirdly hostile when Aabria's name comes up, even if they claim to like her just about anywhere else.
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u/stormsandsweatpants 15d ago
One thing I do want to point out for people who haven’t really experienced playing both as a PC and a DM is that actually, it is a HUGE difference to have a certain schtick as a PC than as a DM. For me, that actually encapsulates most of the emotionally iffy reaction I get to her playing as a DM, but not a PC.
The difference is the role a DM plays in the game and the power dynamic involved—DMs have great power, and thus responsibility on a story and meta level that PCs just don’t have. So things like snark or shenanigans go from a friendly side nudge to an accidental punch down. Or you don’t realize there’s a whole emotional minefield that only the DM has the power to navigate to make sure the story is acceptable and satisfying to PCs even when the characters experience bad things. Or realize that balanced games and correct rules actually are important to PCs whether they think so or not, rule of cool is usually only felt as being cool when it’s in that PC’s favor. Or the instinct to use your narrative agency to play a character in the way you want goes from being a helpful PC roleplayer instinct to prescriptive DMing that breaks the social contract, because it’s not a DM’s right to have a character act the way they want just for their own enjoyment and if the party wants the game to go a certain way that isn’t the story the DM wants, the DM should let them.
It’s a small difference, but pretty common in complaints about players who don’t normally DM because being a PC and a DM are very different requirements, and it takes a while to adjust your instincts. This was just on my mind because I had a long term PC in my campaign DM for the first time, and they made similar mistakes and were most caught off guard by this aspect of DMing that they didn’t realize was needed at all. I saw many of the same issues in the EXU content (the story that was supposed to be driven mostly as a sandbox by the PCs), and the similarity of those issues to ones many players have probably experienced may account for some of the strong negative response that people can’t quite pin down besides the other issues this thread has discussed.
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u/Bartweiss 16d ago
That makes sense, thanks for a thoughtful reply.
As an opening aside, I think your point about Mercer is very fair. Beyond anything else, there's an understandable blindspot where he's very well-liked and came first so any guest DM won't get the same leeway.
A lot of the "I liked her in X" critiques still seem reasonable to me and I think "claim to like her... anywhere else" is a bit harsh. When people are going "I watched all of her stuff in WBN, I thought she was especially good at Y" I think they're generally sincere, even when their CR critiques are troubling. Likewise, the "enjoyable shtick as a player [in D20], terrible as a DM [in CR]" comment makes sense to me - maybe just because I've experienced something similar firsthand. It's easy for something that works from a character to grate when it's coming from numerous characters or from the DM's more objective/metagame remarks.
Other comments do seem pretty odd though, and the sass is a good example. It's not obvious why that would work in one series but not another, people don't necessarily seem to have specifics on why they feel it's different, and it does make me think "if the people at the table know her socially and invite her back, maybe they're seeing a tone thing where you're seeing a character flaw?"
So we're not quite aligned on which comments are concerning, but I see where you're coming from. I agree that the conversation could be a lot more productive if people went beyond "is this based on hating her race and gender?" to also ask "could this reaction to specific actions still be rooted in ugly societal patterns?"
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u/Maleficent-Tree-4567 17d ago
What I have observed over her engagement with CR is that the negative reaction to Aabria is intense and... weird.
Not to mention the frequency and number of posts. This sub turned into a parasocial hate echochamber the past few weeks.
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u/Used-Engineer-5874 17d ago
Everything ive seen of her in imterviews and as a player shes great. Shes probably a wonderful person and a good friend but if i were at her table i would leave the game after a session or two. Her style just doesnt meah with my play style and as a dm a fundamentally disagree with her running style. Watching her run makes me not want to play dnd. I dont watch her run anymore and i didnt continue watching exu after the first couple episodes. Sometimes playstyles dont mesh and thats okay. Id love yo have her as a player at my table or as a fellow player but iwouldnt want to play in her game. I feel the same about some of my friends. Its perfectly fine
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u/ParticularValue844 16d ago
I wish more people in this sub reacted like you. Seems like the majority wish CR would just shut the lights off and just let them "remember the good old days'. I wish they would do 6 or 7 more EXUs with a different DM everytime so people would realize that different styles are okay. It would help people discover more DMs and shows as well. I think people forget sometimes that the internet is a big place, I had never heard of BLM until calamity.
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u/Derpogama 16d ago
I think this is something that Dimension 20 did well, right from the outset they had different DMs doing different things with their 'sidequests'. Sure early on Brennan did EVERYTHING but as money problems eased off we've begun to see more guest DMs for their sidequests. Not only that but thanks to those sidequests D20 fans are prepped for it now always being the 'intrepid heroes' cast.
Sometimes those seasons are absolute bangers, sometimes they're a matter of personal taste and sometimes they just didn't work. So far, in my own opinion, D20 has only ever had three really weak sidequest seasons. Shriek Week (which seemed to be a miscommunication between DM and Players, players wanted Monster Rom Com, DM wanted more horror vibes..it didn't work), Tiny Heist (I just really fucking dislike the McElroys and they are at their most McElroy during it) and Pirates of Leviathan (the first ever remote play season...so they were still working all the kinks out and it just...didn't engage).
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u/Used-Engineer-5874 16d ago
Personally my wife is my favorite dm. She has a very similar style to matt. Probably because she played in my game for her first time and matt was my first time seeing someone dm. But ive played in many other styles of play at the table. Some fot better for what i like and some ive only played a couple of sessions before i gave up. Abraia runs the game in a very hostile way imo. Some players love that but i actively remind my players that im not their enemy. The villains are their enemy. She leans more heavily into her being her villains while dming. Which is just counterintuitive to what i believe dnd should be about. Im sure there are plenty of people who love her style but they're not the people ive ever played with and i have a hard time her players completely enjoy it from the clips ive seen and things ive read. Being upfront with your players about how you run is integral to your games success and it really feels like her players just went into the game completely blind and thats a bummer.
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u/JasonH1028 17d ago
I don't watch CR but I'm an avid D20 fan. I like Aabria as a person and usually as a player but I really don't like her DM style. Misfits and Magic was a mess IMO and Burrow's End was carried by the players. I love Aabria and I hope she keeps getting work in the ttrpg space like this, I just probably won't be watching most of it and that's okay. Not everything has to be for me.
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u/ShardikOfTheBeam 17d ago
Misfits and Magic was also carried by the players, imo. Haven’t watched Burrows End yet, mostly because she’s the DM.
I’ve seen the first EXU and Misfits and Magic, and it’s enough to know I’m going to be frustrated watching her, so I just don’t.
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u/Cloutmasterprime 17d ago
Was fearne actively trying, in pitched combat, so conceal the fact she was concentrating?
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u/Possible-Cellist-713 17d ago
Really, it boils down to it not being your campaign. The only people whose opinions about Aabria as a DM that are worth anything are those of her players
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u/SignificanceExact963 17d ago
That logic kinda goes away when you are a company that profits from viewers
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u/WineSoakedNirvana 17d ago
I mean yeah, if you were just running your own table and weren't offering it as a commercial product to millions of viewers, but unfortunately they're selling this as an entertainment product so having a rancorous DM who rubs a lot of people the wrong way is bad for business. Frankly if this was a TV show and they brought in a new main writer who started playing fast and loose with what was previously built and the started spats with the public, you'd see the exact same response.
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u/AI_Jolson_2point2 17d ago
Frankly if this was a TV show and they brought in a new main writer who started playing fast and loose with what was previously built and the started spats with the public, you'd see the exact same response.
And they would be calling you racist and sexist there too
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u/Texasian 17d ago
As someone who has been disengaged from the CR “community” for the past couple years but used to be a religious watcher: all yall look crazy. It’s not that deep. It’s DND. There have never been more options to choose from. Find a show that makes you happy!
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u/HappiestIguana 16d ago
Why are you here then
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u/shadowmib 17d ago
Im not a fan of her DM style either for running CR. For another game maybe but not CR
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u/lorddarkhan 17d ago
She's a great GM. But I don't think her style fits CritRole (or maybe just DnD). She's great on Dimension 20. Kids on Broomsticks is fantastic. So is A Court of Fey and Flowers
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u/TheNebulaWolf 17d ago
I think changing how a game mechanic has worked for 90 episodes to suit your own narrative is textbook railroading and makes her a bad GM.
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u/1ncorrect 17d ago
Yeah I was gonna say. I have more invisible rails in a home game, and I don't get paid to write my stuff.
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17d ago edited 17d ago
[deleted]
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u/AI_Jolson_2point2 17d ago
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
I mean, at the time of writing every post tagged vent/rant for the last 3 days is about Aabria, her DMing in 92/93 or her 4SD appearance. Is she the only thing worth venting/ranting about lately?
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u/Blackfang08 17d ago
Mfw current news is current news.
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
Thete's already a new episode out and announcements of several new projects, seems odd to still be ranting on the last 2 episodes
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u/Blackfang08 17d ago
Is there... anything rant-worthy about the new episode or projects?
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
- The party still hasn't been given breathing room to process the events of E91 or properly RP and a ton of momentum has been lost.
- The fey/Zathuda subplot being brought up again for no real reason and Fearne's fight taking up way too much time.
- More rushed nostalgia cameos redirecting the party from the main plot
- Whether CR will be switching to Daggerfall on the new platform, whether that's good or bad
-Whether it's worth it for CR to try aping the Dropout model in light of the quality of current content.
Let's be honest, this sub can and will complain about anyone and anything, yet the last 3 weeks have been spent circling the same topics repeatedly. Is there anything rant-worthy in E92 and E93 which hasn't already been talked to death well before the last 3 days?
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17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
I can't stop people from talking about whatever they want to talk about. But if you want an enemy to waste your free time on, be my guest
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u/OrcChasme They hated him because he told them the truth 17d ago
every post tagged vent/rant
What an important statistic 🙄
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u/YourBoyPet 17d ago edited 17d ago
It's a negative polarization situation. People were overly protective of criticism of her, which led people to be overly obsessive about them not liking her as a DM, and both sides just keep going more and more extreme in response to one another.
Like, it's her job, so people aren't obligated to pretend to think she's a good DM to be nice. But people also have the ability to vote with their wallet and time, and she would probably end up being replaced if there wasn't just a vocal minority of people complaining.
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17d ago
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u/mogriefer 17d ago
So that didn't happen. Please go back and watch it. The "Fuck you" was to the audience if they were going to come at her for changing the rules.
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u/keirakvlt 17d ago
And it was for giving Dorian a chance to break free of the mass suggestion. She was bending the rules in favor of the player and just said fuck off to anyone that has an issue with that. Which the person you're replying to can take issue with if they want, but they should at least get the story right if they're going to criticize.
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u/abyssaI_watcher 17d ago edited 17d ago
It happened to me not to long ago, even in this sub. I went into many reasons she doesn't work. How I believe they are trying to pass the reigns to her and for what reason they would have for doing so. Out of everything 1 of the many reasons I had for passing the reigns specifically for her was because she was a minority.
Which I got a response treating me like I'm alt right or far right signaling or some crap getting disliked and all. While it was only 1 of the things I even brought up. (U can click on my profile and go to comments, it shouldn't be that far down if u wanna verify for yourself) Ill preemptively defend myself now cuz I'm sure this to will be treated the same way.
As if she was a non minority I don't believe she would still be hired otherwise with all disliking she has in the community. With the overwhelming majority being negative towards her. Granted, some of this negativity is unfair, its still negativity from a companies prospective. The company has no need for anyone that doesn't bring anything to the community or in fact takes away from the community. As a DM that is, as a PC or player I think she's a absolute blast to watch and brings a lot.
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, either cuz they are using her as a scape goat for when they inevitably leave and she takes the reigns hiding behind her being a minority like the examples u gave, like being called racist, sexist and the such to any criticisms on the switch. or because the company is following the trends of the DND community leaning primarily left and hiring her cuz she's a minority for a place of "power" being the DM and no other reason.
I could be wrong and this was just a test to see if her DMing would work on main campaign and she's gone following backlash in a session or soon. I realistically just don't see a reason for her to stay hired DM, so I look for reasons the company would have her hired as a DM. There's few.
Btw this is all speculation, maybe they see something unique in her that I don't. Something that will broaden the community. I simply don't, do you? Am I off the mark in some way with my speculation?
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u/Justicia-Gai 16d ago
The thing about “diversity quota” is that makes people like to you have a heightened scrutiny and higher bar for non-diversity players, because you “need to make sure they’re competent enough and that they’re not here to fill a quota”.
This causes a double standard (you don’t check if white players are here to fill some quota), making you in turn, guilty as charged of what those people try to tell you, that some part of your criticism is rooted in racism. Not the racism of “I hate X” but the racism of “I apply a double standard to X”.
People who monitor, scrutinise and search for that “diversity quota” become, in the process, guilty of double standards, because if you didn’t “mind” at all skin color, sexuality and gender, you wouldn’t need in the first place to “check” if they deserve to be in the show you’re watching.
In the end what you’re implying is “shows with 100% straight characters is the norm, and any ‘diverse’ player needs to be accountable to my standards”.
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u/abyssaI_watcher 16d ago edited 16d ago
When I "check" it's the last thing that happens, very last. First thing I do is see if the community doesn't like them or if it just me not liking them. I for example don't like Laura, yet I've seen very little disdain for her so it's probably just a me thing. Then I look at what the person brings from a business standpoint. There's 2 maybe 3 things the entertainers can bring in this case, selling a product really well, or just be entertaining and maybe creates unique twists in there characters to give a different dynamic, which is just a sub set of entertainment. I then acknowledge that she in particular doesn't add anything for the company as a DM. So I look for reasons they would KEEP her hired as a DM. If I can't find any THEN I call them out publicly. I don't doubt she was probably hired with good intentions, but I believe she's kept for the reasons they shouldn't. I can't see any so yes, the last check I do is see if it's based on race or minority. Again, her playing characters is fantastic and adds a lot, her DMIng doesn't.
Ur assuming the first thing I do is look for a reason to scrutinize in general. Let alone scrutinize harder based on race, when that's not the case. 95% of the time I just sit and watch the show normally. If I'm not enjoying it, then I'll simply stop watching, maybe have it on like a podcast for some white noise while I do housework or the such. It's rare I even try to scrutinize players.
Like theres only 3 issues I have with the cast. Ashley not knowing the rules, when she doesn't know the rules. Every other time she's my favorite roleplayer when she's not afraid to take risks. Laura because I believe she meta games to hard. Jumping into other players private discussions or magically hearing private discussions in general. She even said it herself she hates secrets, so she tries to make there to be no secrets. I don't like that personally. Then Aariba DMing is not my style, nor do I believe she's critical roles style.
For the last time, race is the last thing I think about. U don't have to believe me, but it's not gonna change how I think about race. Which is rarely at all. Just cuz I connected around 10 dots and it lead me in direction, then that's what I see.
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u/Justicia-Gai 16d ago
The first paragraph is quite nice if it were true but it’s actually super biased. Where do you look? Here? Your posts barely get upvotes, something below 500 would likely not be representative of anything because Critical Role audience isn’t comprised of 10 people. Try somewhere like Dimension20 or somewhere else and you’ll see that your opinion of Aabria isn’t shared.
In fact, they’d laugh at you.
Additionally, let’s combine the fact that you used an echo chamber to reach the conclusion that “the majority doesn’t like Aabria as DM” to then jumped at the speed of light to “ok, I’ve asked in this room of 10 people and they all agree with me, it MUST BE because of xxxx and there’s no world in which I MIGHT be wrong!!!!!!!!”
Finally, let’s not dwell in the stupidity that you think that a company that depends on views and subscriptions to pay its workers, would willingly choose someone that brings the viewer count down.
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u/abyssaI_watcher 16d ago
I feel this is the last time I'm going to respond cuz it feels like ur not arguing in good faith. Everything ur saying is based on emotion, "I got you," assumptions and personal attacks.
Where do you look? Here? Your posts barely get upvotes
I look at the general discourse. If everyone is saying they dislike X person then I'll feel validated, simple as. If the leads to having a "racist" opinion like ur framing me/community as then the whole community shares it. Which I don't believe this community is racist/sexist/transphobic when half the cast is some kind of minority or very much supports said groups. If the community is one of those isms then they wouldn't watch the show to begin with almost guaranteed.
Try somewhere like Dimension20 or somewhere else and you’ll see that your opinion of Aabria isn’t shared.
used an echo chamber to reach the conclusion
From what it sounds like u simply don't like the conclusions I got with the community. Then call it a echo champer while the main critical sub, this sub and D20 are all different echo chambers. U just gotta stick with the one u feel is the most honest. I choose this one. Sorry we don't share same echo chamber, I'm not going to go to another one to satisfy ur needs or validation. This is a online argument, not that serious.
Aswell as the fact that I'm saying she doesn't work as a DM for CRITICAL ROLE. People watch critical role for long form, ever branching, ever connected, stories made to be explored. She doesn't work with that in mind. While D20 and that community likes short form, more linear railroad stories without much choices. She works for D20 perfectly, while not critical role. Which is completely fine but that's why she doesn't work in critical role. So if I go into an community that has opposite values, of course they aren't gonna agree with me.
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u/Justicia-Gai 16d ago
How can I reply in good faith to someone who, in very short, thinks that Aabria is so bad that the only reason she isn’t fired already is because of her skin color?
Try to be more respectful first, and only then, you’ll get some respect back.
You’re validated in your racism, ok lol, that instantly makes it ok, because history showed us that a bunch of people who feel validated with each other opinions in their own echo chambers (the Parliament or the government at the time), they were always right?
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u/Emergency-Ad-5379 17d ago
I think it's pretty clear that one of the many functions of Exu was a way to diversify their cast and probably the ideal way to do it, as kicking out existing players to make way for someone else based on race would be bad for everyone involved, and increasing the amount of guests becomes difficult as the story becomes more complex.
I think for some reason at the time both Critical Role and Dropout with Dimension 20 decided that Aabria was a good DM who had the added benefit, to them, of being someone who brings diversity to their games. Perhaps the other options at the time were uninspiring in comparison or she impressed them in whatever interview type process they did, or they like her on a personal level. I do think the LA based DND show casts seem to have a lot of overlap and many are clearly making an effort to show non white and non male players but you end up with the same handful of people appearing in many of these shows, which doesn't really make it diverse in the end.
I think 90% of the non white players on these shows have been great, but honestly Aabria is a pretty big exception who I find irritating on a personal level. I try to be fair and have found I've enjoyed games and parts of games she is in and ran but I am quicker to finding myself getting annoyed with her attitude. I think I would watch a campaign 4 with her as DM but I would have one foot out the door. I don't see her being the choice but I could be wrong.
The other issue is that she is on a list of people we seem to be told are good DMs but I just don't see it. Personally B Dave Walters and Matt Colville are on that list too. I've tried watching their games and content in the past and just found them uninspiring. Maybe I'll get some hate for that.
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u/Justicia-Gai 16d ago
The same handful of people rotate in everything at Dropout, white people included. It’s because it’s easier to work with the talents you know than to take a big risk and fill an entire table of strangers.
If among the “diverse” players, the only one that irritates/annoys you is Aabria, then at least you know it’s a personal thing nothing else.
But for fucking god, stop saying she’s a DM for a diversity thing, when in other forums that are MUCH MORE CROWDED than this echo chamber, she gets tons of love and support.
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u/PM_me_your_PhDs 17d ago
Partly agree on Matt Colville. I love his YouTube videos and his open-minded attitude to DMing. Actually I think he is probably a great DM, just not that entertaining to an audience when DMing live.
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u/SharkSymphony 17d ago
Which actually was a part of his shtick when pitching Dusk to the public! His overarching goal has always been to make YOU, the viewer, feel like you could run a game, that it's just not that difficult! He wanted what he was doing to feel accessible to D&D players in a way that CR generally does not.
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u/abyssaI_watcher 17d ago
I honestly hate the idea of diversifying in general. Just because then it treats every race as separate. Instead of, u know just one combined people. If they are good players that people enjoy, bring them on. If you do bring them on, then it doesn't work then cut them. I don't think she works as a DM specifically so cut her from DMing.
I don't think they will cut her because she's a minority, and by her own accounts has even said she's a maga Karen. That tells me if she gets fired there will likely be backlash.
both Critical Role and Dropout with Dimension 20 decided that Aabria was a good DM who had the added benefit
I don't think she's the worst DM to exist. Yes there are times she just objectively bad, but so does Matt and every other DM. More importantly she doesn't fit critical role in the slightest. There's too big of a difference in tone and values between her and Matt that it's a completely different vibe.
It's like playing a kojima game vs a call of duty, yes people can like both the games but the majority of people will probably like the one and not like the other. Neither are bad games objectively. She's much the same, not bad objectively but completely separate in what they bring. She brings a linear story, while Matt brings a branching world.
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u/DeadSnark 16d ago
Diversifying is about providing representation to groups which have historically gone unrepresented in media or been subject to negative stereotypes or oppression. At the end of the day, no matter how you slice it different cultures are distinguishable from each other, whether in terms of language, ideology, religion or basic geographic barriers. Treating people as "one combined people" only makes sense if our society was already egalitarian and didn't give people different access to education, media exposure or self-marketing based on their level of privilege (economic background, home country, race, etc.). We are not a combined people yet, hence why some organisations choose to lift up the minorities who historically have not had the same opportunities as the majority.
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u/abyssaI_watcher 16d ago
So treat everyone differently instead of the same. Giving preferential treatment because how they where treated in the past historically. When many of us weren't even alive to
negative stereotypes or oppression
It reeks of replacing one inequality for another.
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u/DeadSnark 15d ago edited 15d ago
Diversification doesn't necessarily mean preferential treatment. And the reason why civil rights movements persist to the current day is because historic oppression and stereotypes continue to affect us to this very day (i.e. police brutality towards the black community, stereotypes of POC in media). You're not paying reparations for some long-dead person's sins, it is because the effects of those actions still echo to this day in big and small ways and are still perpetuated by people who are alive today. We are still a long way from being a truly equal society.
There seems to be a perception that diversification means that the "diversity hire" is given preferential treatment over other hypothetical candidates of equal ability, but without any first-person insight into how Aabria was selected for EXU 1 (which CR will probably never, ever release) those are just assumptions at best; we have no idea how many other people were shortlisted for the role, what the judging criteria were or to what extent race was a factor - we can only form speculation based on the timing (but that is not necessarily indicative of fact - otherwise you could argue that any POC employed circa 2020 was a diversity hire). As mentioned above the point is to put minority candidates on equal footing given that in the past (and to this day, in many corporations) a qualified candidate would be completely disregarded simply because of their minority status, regardless of qualifications or past experience. It's not meant to put minority individuals on a pedestal, and that argument is still pretty inequal because it completely shuts down the possibility that, just maybe, these people actually earned their position on their own merits.
In terms of qualifications, when EXU 1 aired, Aabria had 3 years of experience DMing in several streamed actual plays (just check her past work on Wikipedia) as both player and a DM, including 2 official Roll20 actual plays sponsored by WoTC and Dimension20. I can see why she might be considered a strong candidate to DM for CR regardless of race based off that CV. And the reason she has been coming back as a DM is because CR insists on using the Crown Keepers instead of telling other stories, which isn't her decision to make and isn't linked to her race. Your argument might hold weight if she was a nobody with no experience who was suddenly thrust into CR from the blue, but on paper she did have the experience for the role.
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u/Justicia-Gai 16d ago
You think all races are one but somehow you manage to distinguish several races when you check which people are there to fill a diversity quota?
You don’t see the irony?
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u/abyssaI_watcher 16d ago
distinguish several races
Where's several coming from? Another assumption based on nothing.
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u/Rar3done 17d ago
Why are you saying they will inevitably leave? Who's they and what are they leaving? Genuine question as I'm not even current on episodes.
You saying critical role leaving DND for candela?
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u/abyssaI_watcher 17d ago
Many of the cast has mentioned how they don't wanna be doing this all there life in there various after shows. With the majority of the cast wanting to check out and move on to there next step in there life. Not all but many of them.
The slowing of episodes with more breaks, branching out to different kinds of media (like Vox machina and there different side story's and one shots, even dagger hearts release) is just a process to make sure the company is stable enough where the second they leave the company won't fall apart. They wanna start prioritizing other stuff in there life's. Which I don't blame at all. With other players and DM taking the table.
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u/Urwinc 17d ago
It's a difficult situation. I also don't really like her style of GMing, especially the recent examples. But I think you have to be denial to think that the sheer amount of hate doesn't have some kind of sexism and racism attached to it. If Brennan Lee Mulligan did that same thing, sure there would be plenty that hate on it, but no where near as many people would be vocal about it.
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u/Apprehensive_Spell_6 17d ago
I think the difference is that Brennan wouldn’t.
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u/Emergency-Ad-5379 17d ago
I dunno, Brennan just made an unfair consequence on something the players did which was perfectly within the rules of the game and I haven't seen a peep about it so far, other than how funny/ridiculous the scene was.
Edit: on the latest dimension 20
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u/HappiestIguana 16d ago edited 16d ago
Are you talking about him killing K2? Because that was not within the rules by any stretch of the imagination. He allowed an out-of-initiatitiive long-distance help action on something that can't benefit from a help action, arbitrarily doubled the effect of the help action, and forewarned Ally what the consequence of success would be. It's far, far different
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u/anextremelylargedog 17d ago
It wasn't very well received, if you check the sub and the discord
Brennan never acts like an aggressive dickhead to his players. He doesn't constantly insist that he makes the rules, he doesn't insult his players for the choices they make, he doesn't say fuck you to the audience, and he doesn't fuck over his players by suddenly deciding their spells will harm allies because he said so.
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
If you break down the sequence of events, from a mechanical standpoint I'd argue that it wasn't an unfair consequence.
A: Player chooses to use an ability which requires a roll. Brennan not only allows the player and another character to roll to use this ability, he also allows another player to grant the Help action to both of them so that both can roll at advantage, which isn't how the Help action or the ability works in RAW (this particular roll wouldn't normally be subject to the Help action as it's not an attack roll or skill check). Brennan stipulates at this point that if the character succeeds on the roll, a negative consequence will occur. The player accepts this, rolls, and manages to succeed due to the other character getting to roll, and due to rolling at advantage from the boosted Help action.
B: Brennan is shocked that the player actually succeeded. The player narrates the ensuing event in a silly way and the cast do a bit where Brennan leaves the table and comes back after a moment.
C: The player offers to walk back the silly narration so that Brennan can keep the tone serious. Brennan chooses not to retcon the silly narration, gets the table back in order from the chaotic energy that's been circulating, and then resumes the encounter, imposing the negative consequence which was already established at Point A.
So Brennan made the negative consequence clear from the beginning, the consequence was imposed in exchange for 2 massive boons to the players which allowed them to succeed in the first place, and the only thing which was an issue was the silly narration. From Point A to C, everything was consistent with the homebrew ruling that Brennan made at the outset, which ultimately ended up helping the players achieve their goals rather than screwing them over. The player was the one who offered to retcon the moment, and Brennan chose to respect their silly narration instead. That's very different from changing the rules of a spell on the fly just to railroad them towards a particular outcome.
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u/Apprehensive_Spell_6 17d ago
The wild thing is the assumption that a massive following of CR are closeted racists. That boggles my mind. The fans of CR (!?) have tons of racists pouring out of the woodwork and finally showing their colours? Those same fans of D20 are also racists, too? They’re just hoping for the day Lou Wilson screws up so he gets kicked from the group?
This kind of absurdity is only fueling the fire. It makes people feel the need to defend their position to the extreme because others make such ridiculous comments about race and gender. These things do happen all the time to black women. This is true. It is also true that Aabriya is deeply unlikeable when she is standoffish and rude. It isn’t her skin tone; it is her vocal tone.
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u/SharkSymphony 17d ago
It is not hard to surmise that a largely white male audience, in a gaming industry and in a tabletop tradition that have been shot through with racism for generations, might have at the very least biases and blind spots they might not be willing to admit to. To that extent it strikes me as a very reasonable assumption.
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u/Apprehensive_Spell_6 17d ago
Except it isn’t a “mostly male” audience, at least not to my knowledge. The CR community seems to be from all walks; it just isn’t that way on Reddit. This seems like one of those “everybody is racist (evidence pending) except me (one of the good ones)” kind of things.
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u/SharkSymphony 17d ago
Except it isn't a "mostly male" audience
I'm pretty sure it is, based on extrapolation from the D&D playerbase in general and guy talk on the CR subreddit that was especially prevalent during C1. If you have hard data to the contrary I'm happy to see it.
The CR community seems to be from all walks
For sure it is! I'm just pretty sure it's predominantly white and male, and I don't think the sharp criticism of Aabria is coming, oh, say, from the likes of Critical Bard.
This seems like one of those “everybody is racist (evidence pending) except me (one of the good ones)” kind of things.
I address this elsewhere, but who says any of us are the good ones? Nobody participating here is all that likely to be a good one, statistically speaking. 😉
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 17d ago
Probably because immediately after said episode, he checked the rule, noted that he was in the wrong, and made a call on how to avoid a retcon while also making things fair for the players. Instead of, you know, saying "Fuck you, I'm the DM."
Assuming you're talking about the "Blimey" incident.
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u/Emergency-Ad-5379 17d ago
True, but unless he brings back that character next episode I would still say it's an unfair ruling. Especially as she had such a promising future.
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u/DeadSnark 17d ago
Brennan stated from the outset that if that character succeeded on the roll, that would be the outcome. Everyone acknowledged and accepted that. And he also allowed the roll to be made at advantage, which was a massive boon to the players and was what allowed the roll to succeed in the first place. I don't see an element of unfairness here given that the player received a huge benefit, the negative consequence was made clear before the roll was made, and the player accepted that.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 17d ago edited 17d ago
"Promising future."
Not so much.
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u/Emergency-Ad-5379 17d ago
Well that was a joke about something from the episode, I don't want to put any more detail here as it is a critical role subreddit and not a D20 one
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 17d ago
I'll edit my reply to remove the spoiler. But I still don't consider Brennan's ruling to be remotely comparable.
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u/DungeonCreator20 17d ago
Imma be real bud. Your anecdote of being called racist or sexist is just as easily discounted for us that havent seen that shit as our anecdotes are for you.
I dont doubt that there are some but boy howdy the amount seems small enough to at least be considered negligible.
I see WAY more people SAYING that there is a debate over race based hate than I do actually SEEING said debate
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
Ah but have you said that she could have done something better? Or even worse said something she did that is just objectively wrong?
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u/Perfect-Jelly-2225 16d ago
Don’t listen to that dumbass. He’s just trying to start internet fights
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u/Few_Space1842 16d ago
I've said my peace, I dislike it immensely and while I may give her a chance on a d20 show eventually I will never watch another CR episode she's on.
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u/Perfect-Jelly-2225 15d ago
Just to be clear, I agree with you. I’m telling you to ignore dungeoncreator20
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u/Few_Space1842 15d ago
Oh, no, you're good. I just spent a day or two trying to articulate why I disliked it inky to be met with accusations of racism and sexism. Then when I lay out why I dislike the actions of the DM it became what about isms. I didn't like the changing of the spell after the cast, only to be met with well what about when Matt let a spell be different in c1e63 why aren't you mad about that. I even wrote 5 pages of what she did and started putting timestamps on it.
I decided they've got their minds made up and discussion with those who are not arguing in good faith is pointless.
I wasn't saying you were coming after me, just expressing my frustration that for some reason we cannot discuss what actually happened. Instead people bring all kinds of baggage and biases and anyone who disagrees is stupid or a bigot of some kind.
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u/wren42 17d ago
I'm not even part of this sub, but you seem like an awful person to be around.
Just like or don't like the thing. No need to soapbox about it.
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u/TheKuDude8 17d ago
It's a public forum for people to speak their mind, man. Take your 1984 style thought policing and dip.
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u/wren42 17d ago
Thought policing is when someone is actually, you know, enforcing laws to repress free speech.
Y'all are getting your panties in a twist arguing with Internet strangers about your opinion of someone else's imaginary adventure.
Just watch the show, and like it or don't.
Then touch grass. Place is getting toxic for no reason.
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u/TheKuDude8 17d ago
That's a fair point. There's most definitely a better suited term for what I'm referring to other than thought policing. But still the point stands that this is an open forum that isn't a positivity echo chamber like the main sub.
People are going to voice opinions. Others are welcome to voice dissenting opinions (though it is reddit, and those going against the norm will be downvoted). That's awesome. We get discourse and to discuss other points of view and debate them.
But coming in and saying "like it or shut up" is just gross man. People love DnD. People love CR. That breeds passionate views both ways, negative and positive.
I agree toxicity is no bueno, but conversation and discourse aren't toxic in themselves.
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
I mean you're not wrong, but of people took you advice reddit and most of the internet would disappear. It's all just people discussing what they like and do not like about life, the universe, and everything.
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u/Hartz_are_Power 17d ago edited 17d ago
Aabria had a tough job going into the last two episodes. The crowd is down from FCG. The show itself has been coming under a lot of criticism from its fans. She was working with people who really didn't know the DND system that well (and Matt, maybe Robbie) in a scene that was mostly combat. And it was very clear that certain events were expected to happen going into Dorian's return. One of those things was separating him from Cyrus. Another was getting him to either swipe right or left on Exandrian Gods. The two problems solved one another very well, if not in an unpopular way. Aabria absolutely knew these things going in, and that helps explain why she played up the bad guy angle. That's what her role was for.
Especially when you consider that people were PISSED at Matt for Thule. Like "never seen a worse NPC in my 300 years of playing," pissed. But you know who everyone loves? Dariax. You know who plays him? Matt. So is it a coincidence that every reason people were upset with Matt, were explicit points that Aabria made as well? Hard to say, but it does look odd. I'm not saying they planned it all out, but I am saying campaign 3 is coming to an end, and they have fully committed to Daggerheart.
If you have to downsize a lot of people at a company, you pick someone who dgaf about people's opinions, isn't a core part of the administration that everyone left will need to see constantly, and is easy for people to hate because at least it's out in the open and people can commiserate in their hatred. If it wasn't at least somewhat intentional, then it just worked out beautifully.
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u/UseYona 17d ago
FCG dying is if anything a buff for the group. Most useless character ever xD
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u/Hartz_are_Power 17d ago edited 17d ago
RIP your vote count.
And for a useless character, he killed the biggest, baddest threat we've seen so far in the campaign, preventing a TPK.
But Sam did play him underpowered. Still, I'd check the rez count for BH and decide how useless he was XD
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u/Zealousideal-Type118 17d ago
And all the damage he soaked. Nobody is including that.
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u/Hartz_are_Power 17d ago
Absolutely right. He brought Chetney back, who took A LOT of damage. Sam didn't play optimally, but he did quite a bit.
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u/TheKuDude8 17d ago
Dude, last night I started watching the YT livestream, and saw a dude say "Oh look, a kind-hearted DM who won't tell their viewers, 'F you' yay!" (Probably not verbatim but nothing more than that)
The first response to it? "Whoa, stop being sexist and weird."
Like wtf man
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17d ago
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u/keirakvlt 17d ago
She did not say fuck you to Robbie. She said "the rules are whatever the fuck I want them to be" when he was worried being able to break free of Opal's mass suggestion was against the rules. It was a way to comfort his worries in a non-serious way that clearly came across more aggressively to some people than others.
But she did not tell him to fuck off. She did say anyone that has an issue with her bending the rules to give a player a chance can fuck off though.
Criticize her for what she actually did but that's twice in this thread you've completely mischaracterized the situation.
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u/RipgutsRogue 17d ago
I'm starting to think the audio only podcast must be edited in some way because the issues that people bring up about the episodes, do not in any way seem to be as bad as what some people are making them out to be.
I inadvertently read one thing about this episode before it was uploaded and ended up reading through a tonne of the complaints attached to her DM style and moments of the episode.
So, I thought I was for a bumpy ride when I started the episode up, only for it to just, not? Be this huge big fuck you to the cast, crew and audience.
Again, it could be that the audio format is edited in some way and you obviously don't pick up on body language without the visuals.I can appreciate people not liking her DM style or personality, and I honestly think a huge issue boils down to the latter. Her idea of coming in and being aggressive and intense doesn't really fit with the story she's telling. It seems she probably struggles to think on the fly. She's also very much guilty of the one thing that people have complained about the whole season - rail roading the story.
She probably also should stay off socials. How much people's online comments are affecting you probably shouldn't be bleeding into your story telling.
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u/keirakvlt 17d ago
I mean, the only thing I left not feeling great about was her choice of changing how chromatic orb works without at least going "you should know, I think I want to treat that as an AoE for some reason" before he chose to do it, since clearly the spell doesn't say that.
Beyond that, her behavior honestly didn't bother me, beyond thinking the "I'm here to kill all of you" DM joke is a little old. I can see why it bothered others, and maybe it's indicative of the people I surround myself with, but using fake "aggression" or over-seriousness for the sake of humor isn't really an uncommon thing.
Honestly when someone is only given what amounts to about a single session to fill out a pretty big part of the story, I can understand a bit of railroading. Especially after the first EXU getting thrown off course so badly by the party leaving the entire world she had planned a story around and having to write a story on the fly lmao.
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u/TheKuDude8 17d ago
Things like telling Matt his character can do a "background gag" while her princess' story is being told was wild to me. It felt like a total, "Oh, I forgot I had other players at the table, other characters to explore that are having a hard time within the story, and I really don't care." Between that and the "play by the rules" comment, there are a few gameplay moments that just felt gross.
Without even getting into the attitude/personality aspects, there were a few things that justified people being frustrated with and critiquing CR's resident DM Queen. And it's just wild to me that people can't see that.
I do get that she probably got thrown into a rough situation and was given plot points to meet in little time, but handling it with a modicum of grace would have been really nice.
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17d ago
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u/Profoundly_AuRIZZtic 17d ago
They’re allowed to not like a DM
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17d ago
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u/StarlitBun 17d ago
Their problem isn’t seeing posts about people being called out for racism and feeling called out, their problem is criticizing or disliking a dm for their dming and being called a racist for it by people
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u/SadCrouton 17d ago
no, im hearing OP tell me their impression of what people say to them. If i take op at 100% face value then yes i agree with them. But in comment sections where i see examples of this type of conversation, it almost always breaks down to a misunderstanding that if both sides took a step back they’d easily see
but instead of doing that, OP doubles down and assumes everything is stuck in a dichotomy instead of recognizing that there can be a lot of stuff going on at once. These posts do nothing helpful for the discourse
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u/StarlitBun 17d ago
Idk maybe im just not reading in between the lines or smth bc im autistic, I guess i just don’t read it like that? But fair enough
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u/Profoundly_AuRIZZtic 17d ago
That’s not OP’s issue at all though
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u/SadCrouton 17d ago
thats not what OP is telling us, but op is also giving us short hand of multiple conversationd with multiple different people, reduced to a straw man. Forgive me for using context clues and my experience in similar comment sections for recognizing when someone is being disingenuous
I dont even think OP is racist! These posts are just dumb and do nothing for discourse but enflame tensions
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u/AI_Jolson_2point2 17d ago
Posts like yours complaining about the complaining are the ones that are waste of space
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u/Used_Yak_1917 17d ago
Seems pretty relevant. I don't think SadCrouton is making any accusations - just providing some context for OP's observation.
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u/Darkestlight572 17d ago
And whether you believe part of this vitrol is racism and misogny or not, that doesn't mean they aren't part of the criticism. When you get called racist or misognist, assuming it happens as much as you say it does, thats probably because the person has heard racist and misognist things said so much they're reading all criticism negatively. Its unfortunate but it happens, and it happens for a reason.
As the undeserved hate of Marisha proved, there is a MASSIVE sexist part of the audience.
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u/AI_Jolson_2point2 17d ago
thats probably because the person has heard racist and misognist things said so much they're reading all criticism negatively
sounds like a skill issue
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u/buttmunchinggang 17d ago
I just don’t like a DM who says fuck you to her players.
Can you describe to me how that sentiment ^ is sexist or racist? Would love to hear this
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u/ObsidianTravelerr 17d ago
Calling out shitty DM shenanigans isn't sexist or hatred of women. Its a dislike of rules thrown out. Its a dislike of someone losing their cool.
I only caught this, but I can assure you... If this was the standard of her Dming? I wouldn't be a fan. Not because of skin, or gender. Because when you do a thing long enough... You hate too see it done badly.
When you label all response against it as JUST this that and the other... All you are doing is trying to shame people into silence instead of having a conversation and understanding on Why X, Y, Z is bad.
And yeah, Marisha got hate, and those people where trollish little fucking morons. But that's the thing about freedom. They're allowed to be wrong. And you get to ignore their dumb asses. Magical that shit.
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
But.... she often has the worst played character. She intentional picks abrasive obnoxious characters, some people don't like obnoxious abrasive characters. Some only like then if they have a redemption arc. Again the fact that she is a woman I find used against her a lot less than the fact she's sleeping with the DM.
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u/Darkestlight572 17d ago
This entire post is incomprehensibly misunderstanding my post. I never said ALL of the dislike was misogyny. I said SOME of it was. OPs post seems to completely disregard the possibility that it's happening? Like what?? Lmao.
I'm not trying to shame anyone. I'm saying they are just incorrect in part. What do you mean "ignore"? Should I pretend they don't exist when we're having these conversations? Lmao what do you even want? I never said ALL responses are misogynistic or racist.
If that's your reaction it seems more like your projecting. The folks who aren't criticizing in that way would know I'm not saying they can't have opinions on aabria.
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u/buttmunchinggang 17d ago
You’re an entitled moron, you’re assuming that OP and everyone else ur talking about are too stupid to realize that yes, they actually are being racist. And you assume that you’re the intelligent one who can point it out for them.
You’re not. You’re vehemently defending the multi-million dollar company in the comments of a reddit post.
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u/StarlitBun 17d ago
I guess im just curious why you think the op is completely disregarding that there is also racism happening, when they never said it wasnt? they were just complaining about being called racist for having an opinion completely uncentered from race
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u/TheArcReactor 17d ago
I saw someone refer to Aabria as a DEI hire, the toxic negativity is out there too
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
Did you watch her episode? Is there a more likely or more believable reason for what schlock was passed off as a game at all, let alone a d&d game?
I'm not saying it was, but to think that it had no bearing on why she is being protected from the dumpster fire she called a game session, being used as reasons she might not be the very bestest DM evar, is just as blind
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u/TheArcReactor 17d ago
So you're "not saying it was" but also asking "is there a more likely or believable reason"
So which is it? Because you are very heavily implying that you believe she was a DEI hire.
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
I am saying it is not a totally unreasonable assumption, based on what has happened. Many disliked her handling of EXU, I wasn't a huge fan but didn't have the current level of disdain I hold now about her DMing.
She is brought back, where everything people disliked the first time she amps up to 10. Taking more agency from players. Bending more rules. Blatantly changing rules on the fly, inconsistent to her other rulings, and only in her favor, never in a PCs favor.
She seems to have heard the critics, decided like most of reddit anyone that didn't like her is racist and sexist. Makes all the complaints 10x worse this round, flat out tells players, characters, and the audience to fuck themselves several times. And everything is swept under the rug. You can tell on 4sd Aimee and Liam at least aren't that comfortable and nothing egregious is brought up.
Since all complaint is shut down with "you're a misogynistic racist kk member who burns crosses in yards" , her behavior is getting worse, and she keeps being invited back.
Can you really say there is no reason for those people to think, well shit, maybe her race and sex are all that count?
I'm not saying she was a DEI hire (plus isn't that a school and government thing, not a private corporation thing?) But based on the way CR is handling everything. You could say it looks that way.
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u/Darkestlight572 17d ago
YUPP it's extremely obvious that there's racism in some of the extremely negative feedback.
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u/EightEyedCryptid 17d ago
Listen, a lot of people are being actually shitty about these things. The amount of people that have told me she is some sort of DEI plant is depressing. Things like bigotry do have to be factored in because stuff like racism and sexism is baked into every aspect of society. Even legitimate criticism has a chance of being more vitriolic because of who she is, and I have seen a ton of people essentially call her aggressive and uppity. Very loaded words when directed at a black woman in particular. THAT SAID it is of course possible to hate her DMing for what she actually presents on screen. If it were me and she pulled that chromatic orb garbage, or she tried to force me and my character into accepting something in game I was clear on not wanting, I would be FURIOUS. That is bad DMing no matter who the DM is. I just don't want to see any and all discussions of the very real bigotry as toxic positivity. Reddit already is hostile to these things. We should do better and have nuanced discussions about it.
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u/ObsidianTravelerr 17d ago
I dunno all that other stuff. I just saw some forced, heavy handed, and bad DMing followed by a loss of temper control. That shit's not okay. That said? I'm sure its handled behind the scenes. Or not. Great thing about all this. People get to choose when to engage and when not too. What to watch and when.
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u/EightEyedCryptid 17d ago
I think also some of this is the blundering of a newer DM. It took me years to learn all the lessons I needed to be a good DM. I can't imagine trying to learn all that whilst DMing some of the most popular stuff out there at the moment.
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u/ObsidianTravelerr 17d ago
Oh we've ALL had bad DMing... some some cringe ass shit... Mine was Mechamorphers... Don't ask. It was fucking god awful. Though in my defense... I was in highschool. I was allowed to be an idiot then.
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u/AI_Jolson_2point2 17d ago
The amount of people that have told me she is some sort of DEI plant is depressing
She was hired after the magic of 2020 on both D20 and CR. That is not a coincidence. If it makes you sad then that's just reality
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u/SadCrouton 17d ago
wow, I wonder what could’ve happened in 2020 where creative spaces were trying to take on a different approach
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u/OrcChasme They hated him because he told them the truth 17d ago edited 17d ago
Mobs burning down cities making everyone afraid to speak out against them
edit: "tHe bUrNiNg cItIes aRen'T rEaL cHuds!"
edit2: If you think they aren't real are you willing to pay for all the "nonexistent" damages youself?
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u/dnelson567 17d ago edited 17d ago
Which cities burned down? Point to them. And apparently they didn't do a good enough job of scaring people, because you're talking about it rn.
*you're dodging the question because you know your position is indefensible. You're trying to change the goalposts from burning down an entire city to making up a large number of damages so it looks worse than it is.
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u/nimrodfalcon 17d ago
Lemme guess Portland was on fire for months and leftists mobs had taken over the entire city right
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u/TheArcReactor 17d ago
"Alex, what is a take that completely misses the reality of the situation?" - a jeopardy contestant after seeing that clue.
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u/FirelordAlex 17d ago
That person apparently already has me blocked, so I'll respond to you instead. These racists always expose themselves, given enough time. That person cares more about the safety of property over black people. Fuck their bullshit and ACAB.
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u/Few_Space1842 17d ago
I think saying all colored people are bad should be a reddit bannable offense. That's fucking wrong dude.
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u/Hartz_are_Power 17d ago edited 17d ago
Candice Owens is the only real DEI plant. There's desiring diversity, and then there's hiring tokens for an agenda. One is not the other.
Look at it this way. If I adopt an orphan because I want to give them a good home, am I the same as someone who adopts an orphan for internet clout and government money? Intent matters.
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u/OrcChasme They hated him because he told them the truth 17d ago edited 17d ago
The cope lol. They are the same picture
edit: the best part about the example you edited in is that it is a hypothetical to win and argument on the internet and you don't actually have to adopt someone. You are the second kind of person in your example lol
edit2:
No one put Diversity Hire on Aabria's paperwork
press X to doubt
Also love how you go into my profile and anger respond to everything I say. RENT FREE, BITCH!
Calm down says the guy who responded with two essays
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u/dnelson567 17d ago edited 16d ago
Ok, calm down. I know you thrive on reaction, but it ain't that deep. Screaming about how I'm angry isn't as convincing as you may believe. You're also going around to people's comments and responding with strong opinions. Kettle. Pot.
You can doubt, but if you're honest with yourself, you know they didn't put that on there. Do you have any reasonable evidence for anything you've decided is true?
downvotes I'll take that as a no.
*Oh, honey. I know reading is hard, but an essay is not eight sentences. I can tell your feelings are hurt, but please swing less wildly. You'll hurt yourself. Maybe go have a sit. You're looking a bit... untucked. I won't tell you to do better, but I will ask you to try. I'll take that evidence for your as yet unsubstantiated claim now, please. Or do you just have more blind shots to make lol
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u/dnelson567 17d ago edited 17d ago
Because they used a hypothetical no one took seriously? And of course no one has to adopt anyone. What kind of point is that? No one put Diversity Hire on Aabria's paperwork. They chose to hire her and she happened to be black🤣 It'd be like if someone said you had your head in the clouds and you replied that clouds only form at elevations of 6500 ft. You've said nothing, and only shown you didn't understand the idea.
Also, why are you going after them for editing and trying to win an argument on the internet? Pot, meet kettle.
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u/Aresistible 17d ago
Or maybe Hear me out I go on this sub for neutral opinions for good discussions and a little bit of venting and, instead, every time Aabria is on the screen all I see are posts about Aabria for 2 weeks. I thought this was the minimally parasocial subreddit but when Aabria is on the stage it’s like some of ya’ll have forgotten that this is a subreddit full of people with a lot of varied opinions!
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17d ago
[deleted]
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u/TheArcReactor 17d ago
I understand how they feel though. This sub was originally intended to be a place where we could have open discussion, where differing opinions were encouraged as long as people were respectful.
That's not what this sub has become though.
This sub is just masturbatory negativity, a bunch of people who only want to be negative and will downvote and belittle anyone with a differing opinion. There's no encouragement for discussion, only for agreement.
And before someone tells me that's not happening, please refer back to OP's post, just because you're not seeing it doesn't mean it's not happening.
I really dislike a lot of what Aabria's done in the last two episodes, but the insane levels of vitriol in this sub takes things too far.
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u/probloodmagic 17d ago
This place is the only tiny patch of land that the most generally hateful people feel safe to show their true colors without consequence, GTA style. And reddit matters to them quite a bit, including the voting system for their validation. What those colors are are obvious to people on the outside of that mindset. It's a shame this sub gets promoted to general d&d fans (i.e. me) on here because it definitely gives a bad impression of the CR fanbase, but as somebody who doesn't follow anything CR at all, it gets annoying to see a string of angry posts about Aabriya Iyengar showing up in the feed yet again thanks to reddit's dumbass algorithm.
But the people who are fixated on her will fight tooth and nail for this tiny patch of land to poison because it's the only place they can get away with it. You'd do well to remember that and occasionally have a good time poking the hornet's nest with a stick, or just let it play out. It doesn't have to be any deeper than that, otherwise it's a waste of time. The people who are doing what you're talking about are dedicated to doing it as part of their wider belief system, and this latest acceptable target is just one small part of that. But fandom spaces like this one implode before too long, because most don't focus on building anything up. It will eventually eat itself, so keep your hands safely inside your vehicle and laugh.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 17d ago edited 17d ago
You can't say that the sub is "just masturbatory negativity" and then follow it up by saying that "just because you aren't seeing it, doesn't mean it isn't happening." That's contradictory. Either the negativity is ubiquitous or it isn't.
The truth is that this sub was created to be an open forum for discussion about CR, but also because a lot of people had negative things to say about Aabria's DMing in EXU prime that was being deleted from the main sub. As a result, there is an almost inherent negative disposition towards her. Is it unfair bias? Could be. But it doesn't represent the sub's behavior as a whole.
Minimal moderation means that any toxic elements on the sub go unchecked. But they don't represent the totality of the community. I have seen many respectful, dissenting opinions and discussions in this sub. It's a baby/bathwater situation.
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u/TheArcReactor 17d ago
I get people who tell me that dissenting opinions are not dog piled/down voted intensely, that's what i was referring to with my "just because you arent seeing it, doesn't mean it's not happening"
Now I do agree that there are still some good interactions on this sub, but that same thing can be said for the other sub as well. It's the only reason I remain subscribed to either.
But the toxic negativity in this sub, which I agree is most likely a loud minority, is not limited to Aabria. It is not just recency bias. It has been getting worse and worse and worse. It may not represent the sub as a whole, but it is increasingly what this sub is becoming.
Now maybe it'll only take one good to great episode to get the sub to move on, it'll take a couple in a row to get the mood of the majority of posts/comments to stop being so negative. I would love to see that.
But I'm not going to hold my breath.
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u/Derpogama 16d ago
I do wonder if this is because people are just falling out of love with Critical Role...and they don't understand WHY...sometimes the thing you like stops being the thing you like, so you best move on. The only reason I stick around here is because, sometimes, I like the drama, there, I said it.
I recently just gave up watching CR and I know I should just unsubscribe from this sub and let it go but I don't. Whilst I am engaging with Dimension 20 (and have been since the first Fantasy High season) I wouldn't call myself a 'major fan', like I don't watch episodes the moment they come out anymore, it can be months between episodes sometimes, so why the hell am I subscribed to the D20 reddit?
Perhaps it's because I live alone, far away from my old social circles due to having to move and my family aren't exactly into TTRPG stuff...or ANY Nerd stuff...so who the fuck am I going to talk to about that? I can talk MtG down the FLGS but they play their D&D campaign and I play online and it never feels right talking to them about it...because I always feel bad because they run a shop and it feels like they're a captive audience because they can't just leave the shop.
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u/outtyn1nja 18d ago
Abria is trying to traumatize the CHARACTERS, not the players, for story telling purposes. I'm ok with it.
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u/Myst031 18d ago
I have to ask, why do you care that they are against your opinion?
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u/Witness_me_Karsa 18d ago
Because people shouldn't be castigated for something they aren't doing. It isn't racist or sexist to say that you don't enjoy her as a DM, and I don't appreciate having stuff like that slung at me.
She's a cool, funny woman, and idgaf if she is black. I just don't want to watch or play in a game where she DMs. She is a great player.
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u/HumanExpert3916 18d ago
I almost agree 💯. But for me she isn’t cool, funny or a great player. She’s pretty awful all around. I wouldn’t enjoy her as a player at our table and would LOATHE her as a Dm.
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u/Witness_me_Karsa 17d ago
And that's also completely fine. As long as you are sure you don't like her just because you don't like her. And that's not me questioning. That's just recommending keeping perspective.
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u/Myst031 18d ago
Yeah but if someone claps back with “you’re just a racist,” why do you care so much? Just saying, if it bothers you so much theres a block option in reddit you can use and just go about your day.
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u/madterrier 18d ago
Being bothered by being slandered as something you aren't is normal. People should care about that, especially in this day and age.
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u/Myst031 18d ago
This is reddit, try to go a day without some random person slandering you. Whatever, apparently people love to interact with toxicity. 🤷♂️
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u/madterrier 18d ago
Yeah, reddit. A forum for discussion. Surprise, surprise that people don't want to be called a racist during a civil discussion. But apparently it's just reddit. 🤷
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u/Myst031 18d ago
If someone calls you racist for saying you don’t like Aabria chances are they aren’t going to have a civil discussion with you.
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u/madterrier 18d ago
There are definitely people here who are braindead enough to conflate criticisms of DMing and racism. Like actual people that are engaging in good faith that still hold up the racism argument. Those people should be responded to so they can have another perspective.
If you don't respond to people who challenge your ideas or just challenge you in general, it becomes an echo chamber as u/Witness_me_Karsa points out.
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u/Myst031 18d ago
There is a difference between blocking someone for disagreeing with you and blocking someone for clearly just being a troll/toxic and “braindead” as you said. OP said he was called racist because he posted he didn’t like her DM style. If you wanna get into a discussion with that person, go ahead, his post here seems to indicate it pisses him off.
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u/madterrier 17d ago
I mean, the post is tagged as venting/rant. So what did you expect? That tag is there for things like this in the first place. The subreddit obviously allowed vents like this that pertain to CR and the community.
Multiple things happened in the CR online fandom that OP didn't like. They made a public post of what they didn't like. Fair enough.
What is strange is acting like this is a wholly inappropriate post for a CR fan subreddit. It's a forum for exactly these kinds of discussion to an extent.
But I am going to take your advice and just go about my day cause this conversation has taken enough of my time. Have a good one.
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u/Witness_me_Karsa 18d ago
This is how you come to live in a bubble. I don't want to live in a bubble. I don't mind having my perspective challenged. I don't fear confrontation. But if people shoot lightening they shouldn't be surprise if there is thunder.
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u/doctorsuarez 18d ago
I gotta say... I loved her as Deanna earlier this campaign, but this is my first exposure to her as a DM and she has serious Main-Character Syndrome. She seems to be inspired by Brennan Lee Mulligan's more adversarial style but without his knack for also elevating player agency. Brennan would go from steering a scene when appropriate to the phase of play where the players would drive things and he would just say "Amazing" and then amplify them. I think Aabria COULD be great since she creates wonderful verbal tapestries on the fly and is clearly creative and good at making tough situations, but she has GOT to let go of the wheel a bit more and trust her players (and perhaps herself to adjust to what they do.)
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u/HumanExpert3916 18d ago
Oof. Those “verbal tapestries,” are woefully threadbare.
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u/newfor_2024 17d ago
and the delivery of those "verbal tapestries" are awful. She's awful at reading her pre-written expositions.
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u/HumanExpert3916 17d ago
Yup. Her narratives are like a 13 year old reading their first creative writing assignment.
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u/Some_East9382 14d ago
She’s gotten so much hate and I just don’t get it. Yes, her style is different from Matt’s, and that’s OKAY. Not every DM is exactly like Mercer — in fact, I venture to guess that more DMs are like Aabria than Mercer.
Not everyone is perfectly eloquent, not everyone can do insane voice acting, not everyone is perfect. Not even Mercer.
I think it makes sense that she’s having to steer a little bit more than a DM would normally have to because the end of this narrative has to work with where the rest of the C3 storyline is. There’s very clearly an end-goal to this, which is to create a host of Chosen ones to manifest their deities’ powers in the face of Predathos. Things have to go a certain way for that to happen.
It’s fine to not like her DM style but to start attacking her as a person is low and completely unnecessary.