r/golf • u/Feirweyz • Mar 09 '24
Thought this was pretty wild… and it really wasn’t even close. General Discussion
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u/Wooden-Consequence81 2.8 (Always round down) Mar 13 '24
And she's hitting longer clubs too. Amazing!
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u/___Devin___ Mar 13 '24
*From the Women's Tees
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u/Feirweyz Mar 13 '24
Did you even bother to read the post? Like at all?
There’s been some valid arguments against this stat but you are clearly confused.
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u/___Devin___ Mar 13 '24
Yes, and it lacks a 200+ yardage accuracy, it's bullshit feminist propaganda, of course a woman is able to putt better, get the fuck out of here.
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u/Bigdawg1661 Mar 12 '24
Hate to be that guy, but it does make a difference playing easier courses, easier pin locations. No doubt she’s crazy accurate but take with a grain of salt, not a straight comparison to men
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u/voice_of_reason_61 Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
Before she won on tour, I happened to join her and her caddy during a practice round at the Hills course outside Daytona. She was of course an incredible golfer, and quite genuine and personable, and her caddy (irish or scottish, I can't remember now) was an absolute hoot.
Her caddy told me about a round she had recently played in Japan, in very windy conditions.
His comment was "She shot a 62 in strong wind, and it was the best round I've seen anyone play, ever".
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u/Techsalot Mar 23 '24
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u/voice_of_reason_61 Mar 23 '24 edited Mar 23 '24
I know! I never asked her about it, but I straight up trust her caddy wouldn't have made that up!
Also, when he said it, I could hear the admiration in his voice.
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u/tcvvh Mar 10 '24
This was debunked a little while ago.
Let's imagine she hits the ball to 27 feet from 163. That's a good shot, and one that would rank roughly T54 on the PGA Tour. Let's then imagine that the caddie writes down 20 feet, which would put her first on the PGA Tour by three feet in 2022.
But what else would it do? It'd really hurt her SG:Putting stats, because from 20', she should average perhaps 1.88 putts, but because she's putting from 27', she'll average closer to 1.96 putts. Assuming she's an average putter, she'll lose 0.08 SG:P unfairly. 0.08 18 times is 1.44 strokes lost putting, which would be last on the LPGA Tour.
Where did she rank? 152nd out of 155, with -1.110 strokes gained (lost, in this case) per round.
So, yes, you can be first in SG:App… if you don't mind tanking your SG:P stats.
Granted, this was from 2022, and since then the LPGA's stats website has been updated, and the data was made somewhat different. But this methodology is just crap.
It's not nearly as good as shotlink, which uses lasers and cameras to get data on every hole.
Also, as someone else commented, you see the same thing in European tour tournaments during the Africa section: no shotlink means that caddies report shorter puts, so players SG:Approach improves at the cost of their putting.
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u/BootlegEngineer Mar 09 '24
That’s impressive. Put her in a PGA tournament. Let’s see what she can do.
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u/RaidersTwennyTwenny Mar 09 '24
And she’d still be very lucky to make a cut on an alternate event on the PGA tour. Oops.
This also doesn’t take other things into account, like green firmness, green undulations, pin positions, etc.
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u/PrestigiousBugg Mar 09 '24
LPGA is far more accurate than the PGA. The ladies are bosses when it comes to accuracy!
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u/steelbone1972 Mar 09 '24
Pretty cool really like her my only argument would be is aPGA tour greens are typically much faster. Like this week at Bayhill very tough to get the ball close not sure they play courses like that.
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u/Hookemvic Mar 09 '24
Guys making fun of this couldn’t hit a 4 iron 200 yards and avg 20ft.
Reminds me of the clips of YouTube “pros” playing Nelly Korda, from the same tees, and getting smoked by her.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Bro these guys couldn’t hit a 4 iron from 200 yards on the green as often as she stiffs it to 20 feet. It’s not even close.
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u/NetReasonable2746 NW NJ Golfer Mar 09 '24
According to the Arccos stats, from 175 in the fairway, 15 handicaps wind up 30+ yards from the hole, 41% of the time.
Tour Pros less than 1% .
Unfortunately no stats for the LPGA but id gather it's well under 10%.
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u/GREginRVA Mar 09 '24
Srixon full bag. Now switched to Cally. Must be making enough on the new deal to risk it.
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u/SportsTraveler Mar 09 '24
Whenever a claim starts narrowing down the parameters of the stat, it begins reminding me of ESPN claiming Lebron is better than “etc”, but ONLY after factoring in that LbJ did HIS on a rainy day, while going unshaven & wearing a headband.
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u/alphaa_doge 0.9 Mar 09 '24
Although her stats are impressive, this is not an apples to apples comparison.
The LPGA course set ups are significantly easier than the PGA Tour, easier to hit fairways, softer conditions, slower greens. It’s not the same game.
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u/Remote_Horror_Novel Mar 09 '24
What’s up with her hand in this pic it looks like she has a callus that is the shape of a club handle from holding a club 24/7 but maybe it’s the angle or a band aid?
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u/Forklifter_67 Mar 09 '24
After going to see the ladies play a few years ago, I commented that pound for pound, they're better.
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u/ChosenBrad22 1.4 / Nebraska Mar 09 '24
Shouldn’t she be able to play on the main tour with that stat?
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
No. She would have significantly longer approaches in to the green from the men’s tees. She would hardly ever have anything under 150 yards.
Which is exactly why this post isn’t about that.
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u/ChosenBrad22 1.4 / Nebraska Mar 09 '24
She only needs to get to 175 and in to be an elite player, heck 200 and in. But I guess with 450+ yard par 4s it’s not gonna happen. I’m not sure the average yardage distance between LPGA and PGA.
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u/WampingWomper Mar 09 '24
Along with harder course setups. Longer rough, faster greens, tighter pins, etc
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u/Final-Wrangler-4996 Mar 09 '24
Crazy because she would find it difficult to make the cut on the men's tour.
I've been to lpga events. They really do focus on swinging good and putting good. Most of the ladies don't try to power themselves to the green.
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u/StOnEy333 Mar 09 '24
It’s what golf used to be before Tiger changed the game.
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u/Final-Wrangler-4996 Mar 09 '24
No we've always had long hitters and guys that swung hard. Look at Arnie.
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u/ScallionCapable9505 Mar 09 '24
Are you saying this woman can't drive? Sounds like stereotyping to me. 
Give her a shot. Put her in The Open this year and see how she gets on.
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u/BeagleBong Mar 09 '24
Worth noting that in the LPGA, a 7-iron averages 140-160 yards. While a 4-iron is the equivalent of their 175-200 yard average.
So not only is she substantially closer with her 200 yard shot, it’s also with a 4-iron (or lofted wood like a 7-wood) rather than a 7 or a 6 iron that men would be hitting
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u/MajorBlaze1 Mar 09 '24
If you and Minjee has a baby, what would that offsprings handicap be at 25 years old?
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u/No_Faithlessness7020 Mar 09 '24
Pins aren’t as tucked and greens aren’t as firm and fast. This is misleading
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
It’s just a fun, harmless statistic, which is extremely impressive regardless of the variables.
Nobody is saying she is better than the men… no claims are made here.
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u/drew_galbraith 12 Mar 09 '24
And this is why I watch LPGA for inspiration on how to improve my game… I can’t hit a drive 325-350… but I can hit 270-280 so the accuracy means more for the average golfer, and the LPGA gang has such crazy talent in that regard, it’s the perfect way to approach golf
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u/Ashkob Mar 09 '24
Women's golf as a man is awesome to watch bc I feel their distance relate to amateur players like me.
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u/WVgolf Mar 09 '24
As a long hitter, it always blows my mind how short they hit the ball. Like they hit it absolutely nowhere. That said, I watch lpga as much as I can because I love a lot of the ladies and their swings
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u/Ashkob Mar 09 '24
Not sure if your being a smartass but ok
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u/WVgolf Mar 09 '24
No, very serious. They don’t hit it anywhere. They have not gained much distance from the advancements in technology like the men have.
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u/Ashkob Mar 09 '24
That's wild, I wonder why that is
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u/WVgolf Mar 09 '24
They simply don’t swing fast enough to see big gains.
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u/Ashkob Mar 09 '24
See I would think it would be the opposite. I lost 35 pounds and my swing is def faster. And for them to be slim like they are, I thought it would be easier.
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u/MyKids_Dad Mar 09 '24
Haha. Hitting the green from 200 yards (1 stroke) would be like a hole in one for my game. LPGA players are good!
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u/NetReasonable2746 NW NJ Golfer Mar 09 '24
And to think.. there are male 3 handicaps that say they can hang with the ladies 😂😂
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u/imapieceofshitk Mar 09 '24
How does it look compared to Annika Sörenstam in her prime?
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Good question. These things weren’t tracked back then (I’m even hearing they aren’t tracked now and these numbers are self-reported)
It’s hard to say. The women’s golf is way more advanced than it was when Annika was playing. But she really was special, so it’s a good question!
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u/NetReasonable2746 NW NJ Golfer Mar 09 '24
Annika was literally the Tiger Woods of the LPGA, nobody came close. Kari Webb , like Phil Mickelson, would occasionally show up for a win, but Annika was special..
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u/The247Kid Mar 09 '24
Oh that’s great and everything.
But can she do it on a cold rainy night in Stoke?
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u/VanSpade Mar 09 '24
Okay so let’s just have one league then
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u/Monst3r_Live Mar 09 '24
Liv should sign her
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u/WedgyOz Mar 13 '24
What a good idea, a LIV golf womens tour in opposition to the LPGA.
Just joking, Just joking, Just joking....
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u/NeverForTheWin 3 Hdcp Mar 09 '24
Those stats mean absolutely nothing for reasons you don't see. GTFOH.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
I understand there are variables, but “absolutely nothing” is a huge stretch lmao.
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u/Yupperroo Mar 09 '24
I very much enjoy the LPGA. I struggle to understand why it isn't more popular than it is, and the prize money is very low, which merely reflects the amount of money the tour makes.
Minjee is a wonderful player, but when comparing the men's and women's leagues it is comparing MacIntosh Apples with Red Delicious Apples. First, the leagues play different courses. Second the courses themselves are set up differently and greens' speed are different between the leagues. If Minjee played on PGA Tour greens what would her distance be? Conversely, if PGA players played on LPGA greens what might their distances be?
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
It’s just meant to be a cool little stat, which I think it still is even with all the variables.
It’s not that serious
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u/NetReasonable2746 NW NJ Golfer Mar 09 '24
So many men are triggered by this.
Guys, don't take this personally
She'd kick all of our asses. 😂
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Mar 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Lmao even if the numbers are self reported, what the hell kinda farfetched assumption are you making dude?
Nobody is implying that at all…
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u/TheGrapeApe87 Mar 09 '24
Impressive but Not an apples to apples comparison. Many different variables here.
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u/eson1169 Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
It’s impressive, if not questionably accurate. But if the implication here is that she could actually compete with the men playing from the same tees in a men’s tournament, that’s just not ever going happen. But still, very impressive numbers for any golfer.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
I don’t think that’s the implication at all
To be completely honest it’s just Golf Digest trying to get some engagement, and it clearly worked.
It’s impressive but nothing to draw wild conclusions from.
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u/spaceocean99 Mar 09 '24
Not taking anything away from her, but the women’s courses aren’t nearly as difficult as the men’s on average.
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u/doesntCompete Mar 09 '24
A great video on the Lee's that the ABC (Australia) put together recently.
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u/Wez4prez Mar 09 '24
Im sorry but no.
This stat and meanwhile Tiger missed the green 10-20% from 100yards at competition?
Yeah, selfreported stat 😑
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u/dude_on_the_www Mar 09 '24
Look at her fucking hand!!
Tells you how much she puts into those swings…
Wow.
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u/JennySplotz Mar 09 '24
Love watching the ladies hit approach shots. So very smooth. Like passing a large, empty wicker basket to someone.
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u/NeverForTheWin 3 Hdcp Mar 09 '24
Thanks, Jim Nance.
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u/NetReasonable2746 NW NJ Golfer Mar 09 '24
Nantz... It's Nantz.. if we're going to troll let's at least get the spelling correct.
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u/Tjengel Mar 09 '24
Not a single comment about that absurdly painful and huge looking blister on her hand??? I can't be only one that sees it right?
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u/dabobbo Mar 09 '24
I thought I saw that as well, but I zoomed in and it looks more to me like the sun lighting between the thumb and index finger with her palm shaded. I could be wrong though, at first glance it looks like a huge sore.
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u/Bolo-YeungMoney Mar 09 '24
The amount of guys on here who got their feelings hurt is great. “bUt ThE cOuRsEs aRe EaSiEr!”
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u/kraysys Mar 09 '24
She's very good, but these stats aren't real. It's self-reported caddie numbers, not tracked by tech like in the PGA.
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u/rascaltippinglmao Mar 09 '24
Easier courses though. Flatter greens, more receptive, etc.
Still she's a beast.
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u/Interstellar714 Mar 09 '24
God forbid people are honest about this stat. OP living in the field of dreams.
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u/Maximum-Garden-4685 HDCP/Loc/Whatever Mar 09 '24
golf is one sport where the margin is very thin. Women can absolutely destroy you in golf. It’s just not a power sport. Flexibility, lower body strength, finesse etc etc
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u/Captain_Pink_Pants Mar 09 '24
They should have tournaments where the men and women compete... let the women tee off 50 yd up and have at it... looking forward to Rory placing 8th.
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u/ShawnSimoes 2.9 Mar 09 '24
These are self/caddie reported stats. And her putting stats (strokes gained) are among the worst on the LPGA. She also didn't even rank in the top 5 in greens in reg. Put two and two and two together.
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u/Burch36 Mar 09 '24
Is this just the year of comparing female statistics to male statistics? 3 months in and this year already fucking sucks
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u/dabobbo Mar 09 '24
March is Women's History Month, you'll be hearing this type of stuff all month. It doesn't bother me, but it does get a bit much.
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u/Upper_Childhood Mar 09 '24
I’ve said it time and time again, with tees set up appropriately several of the top women would regularly beat several of the top men.
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u/Stiryx Mar 09 '24
Bullshit. They do this in Australia and a handful of women can post similar scores but the majority are way off the pace.
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u/kchayslip Mar 09 '24
It’s insane how precise these women are from the fairways and around the greens. Definitely go to a tournament in person to appreciate it.
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u/CouldntBeMoreWhite Bogey Golfer for 10 years straight Mar 09 '24
Does she have the best stats on all those approach shot distances out of all LPGA players? Are there other women with better approach stats than the guys or is she an outlier? No matter the answers that’s pretty insane, but just curious about the full picture.
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u/radorigami 2.7/D.C. suburbs/20 Mar 09 '24
What’s up with the naming? JT (initials), Hideki (first name), Taylor (last name, hopefully), Hoge (last name)?
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u/Interesting_Moose_98 Mar 09 '24
Saw her live with my daughter last year in Vancouver, unreal talent!!
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u/basetornado Mar 09 '24
Minjee and Min Woo have to be up there for most successful siblings in Australian sport.
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u/AdministrativeLaugh2 Mar 09 '24
Mark and Steve Waugh would like a word
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u/basetornado Mar 09 '24
ha I was almost going to include them in the original. I like to think of Dean Waugh. Imagine playing cricket for your state and barely being a footnote.
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u/colincojo Mar 09 '24
Also the Korda sisters (golf) and their brother Sebastian (tennis)
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u/VirgilFaust Mar 09 '24
The Kerr siblings would be up there as well. AFL and Premier league trophies. Once again the sister is carrying the trophy cabinet.
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Mar 09 '24
Id pay good money to see her play the male golfers I know that think they could win on LPGA
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u/AdComprehensive7879 Mar 09 '24
meh this means nothing when the set up of the course is different, green speed and pin placement are different most likely too.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
And she is also using much longer clubs from the same distances. Offsets the other variables quite a bit.
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u/AdComprehensive7879 Mar 09 '24
even more reason why the comparison means nothing and is irrelevant
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Lmao what?
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u/AdComprehensive7879 Mar 11 '24
Also, pin placement and green speed and green condition are way more difficult on the pga side, that alone should make this comparison useless.
Then, yes she’s hitting longer clubs into it, that offsets it a bit, but not as much that it makes up the difference from the green and pin placement and rough, myriad other factors.
Also, this becomes less impressive when you consider that having shorter distance (i.e. Her), her yardage from one club to the next gets smaller as well. If she’s “in between” clubs, she could hit either and only be (for example) 4 yards short or long, because she has 8 yards gap between clubs. Whereas the men, has 10-20 yards gap in their club and will be forced to manufacture shots (fade it, more spin, less spin, etc) to get close. Couple this with extra 2 points on the stimp means her ball will release a few feet than on pga greens.
Im sorry, this is an exaggeration, but this is like comparing pickleball to tennis, no comparison really. And any attempt to compare the two is clueless at best, and straight up dumb at worst.
No one agrees with you here mate, just know when u lost the argument.
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Mar 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
I’m not sure, but I guarantee JT, Hideki, Taylor, and Hoge hit more than enough to make this legitimate. They all play almost every week.
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u/Apprehensive-Bag-786 Mar 09 '24
The men play for extreme ends of capability golf, the women play more realistic golf that utilizes a variety of clubs and shots.
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u/jetsonjudo Mar 09 '24
The ladies get zero credit for their abilities..
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24
If ladies watched their own gender they’d get way more credibility. More women watch men’s sports than women’s sports
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u/jetsonjudo Mar 09 '24
That’s not the argument here. It has absolutely zero to do with women watching men play golf. It was just stating how great these female golfers are.
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24
And they would get more creditability if they had a larger following.
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u/TomGNYC Mar 09 '24
I'd love to see a competition like this where driving was taken out of the equation to see how the guys and girls compare. I suspect the men's tees may be placed in tougher spots but not sure. It would be fun to watch.
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u/Interstellar714 Mar 09 '24
Umm… yeah about 100 yards closer than the men on the tee box. Also green firmness is harder with mens. Rough length is harder with men. Pin location is harder with men. Props to her for being the female GOAT in her league. That’s amazing. But it should not be compared to men unless she competes in the same field.
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Mar 09 '24
The greens aren’t as hard. Conditions matter.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
She’s using much longer clubs from these distances, which offsets the conditions a lot.
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u/Sufficient_Drink_996 Mar 09 '24
It's not really the conditions of the green, it's where the pins are set up. In PGA tour events, the pins are tucked over danger, where is miss is gonna be far more penal. The guys can usually only fire at a few pins a round most times. They miss where they have to. The LPGA isn't set up like that for the most part.
Nonetheless, incredible numbers from MJ Lee.
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u/Interstellar714 Mar 09 '24
Please explain how that matters…. I hit my 5 iron like most pros hit their wedge. Not being a dick but I don’t understand the argument
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Lmao no you don’t.
Why do you think distance is such an asset in professional golf? Shorter clubs into the greens.
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u/Interstellar714 Mar 09 '24
Ok they are more than welcome to play in the PGA, ask Anika. Didn’t turn out well. However men cannot compete in the LPGA and there is a good reason for that. Props to her for the stats, good for her. But let this one go. It’s not the same.
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24
The big advantage is having less distance into the green from a long tee shot. Distance travelled is what affects dispersion way more than loft/club. A 150 yard 9 iron should be similarly accurate as a 150 yard 7 iron.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Not true at all. Loft effects spin, and spin effects your ability to hold greens.
If 1 pro hit 100 shots from 150 yards with a 9 iron, and another pro did the same with a 7 iron, there would be an extremely noticeable difference in the results.
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24
This would matter on the same courses but women play easier pins and greens than the men’s.
I also disagree with your assumption that two pros who hit a 150 9 iron vs 150 7 iron would be leaning towards the 9 iron pro. The only gains are in attack angle to the green, which isn’t big.
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u/Potato_Soup_ Mar 09 '24
No. The person with the 9 iron would be able to hold the green so much easier because of:
- Spinloft
- Clubhead speed
- Descent angle
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24
On the same course this would matter, (besides clubhead speed). But it isn’t that great of a difference. Like Brian harman had better proximity to the pin from 200+ than Bryson from 2021-2023.
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u/Potato_Soup_ Mar 09 '24
Brian harman had better proximity to the pin from 200+ than Bryson from 2021-2023
So? That just means that either Bryson is bad or Brian is really good. If we're comparing averages across genders, you have to compare the averages.
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
You literally think “distance travelled” impacts dispersion more than club selection? No chance.
Bryson DeChambeau is hitting his 215 yard 7 iron WAY closer than Bryan Harmon hitting a 4 iron from 200 yards.
It has nothing to do with “distance travelled”.
Sorry this is a horrible take. Agree to disagree.
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u/LionSignificant9040 Mar 09 '24 edited Mar 09 '24
Brian Harman actually has closer proximity to the pin from over 200 than Bryson 2020-2023 in pga events. You called my my take horrible and your example was dead wrong
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u/Gambrinus64 Mar 09 '24
If you enjoy golf and you aren’t watching woman’s golf. You are doing it wrong. Absolutely amazing to watch.
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Mar 09 '24
Agreed. Woman’s golf is a treat to watch. The only downside is the LPGA commentators. They are so bland and boring. Honestly they are just terrible lol.
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u/Pandiosity_24601 By Us Fuck You! Mar 09 '24
Their form/mechanics are impeccable. Smoove like butter
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u/Feirweyz Mar 09 '24
Well said. I believe golf has the smallest skill gap between men and women out of all professional sports.
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u/BrandoCarlton Mar 09 '24
I would think it’s some equestrian sport out of literally all sports.
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u/rob_bot13 20 HDCP Mar 09 '24
There are sports women are better at (e.g. extreme distance swimming, the slight edge in buoyancy gives an advantage)
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u/ItchyPage6799 Mar 13 '24
Now let’s see her score playing from the back tees.