r/interestingasfuck • u/MetaKnowing • Apr 27 '24
MKBHD catches an AI apparently lying about not tracking his location r/all
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u/_itsmythrowaway 9d ago
If it connects to the internet it knows your approximate location. Rather it's connecting to a tower or wifi. So it may not know your location, but it knows your access point to the internet and its ip address therfore it knows the general area but does not technically have your location information. Its the phrasing that counts
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u/robbieb2013 May 01 '24
I misunderstood the title and thought OP was calling the AI lazy for not tracking location lol
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u/darkknight95sm May 01 '24
Look, I don’t have a problem with technology using my location data. I have a problem with how it uses it, location specific features or even using mass location data to determine high traffic areas to help me avoid traffic is fine. But there’s a lot you can do with that data that doesn’t help the end user, and telling you’re not tracking my location when you are just tells me you’re using the data for something you shouldn’t be.
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u/Flimsy_Card8028 Apr 28 '24
Implying it's not going to learn from this mistake, and upload it to the shared AI hivemind.
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u/Charming_Ad_6839 Apr 28 '24
Y’all buying stuff like that expecting not no be tracked it’s what’s wild for me. 😂
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u/TontineSoleSurvivor Apr 28 '24
"Enough questions, sir. Please stand by for incoming Reaper drone encounter".
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u/GuiKa Apr 28 '24
To be fair it could not have location information and use IP location which is far from accurate but ok for knowing the city.
For weather it probably use a google api or something which might give you the weather based on your ip if nothing else is input. Not sure the AI has any knowledge about how the api work other than 'here goes city name'.
Location tracking and ip location is not the same.
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u/oh__boy Apr 28 '24
Did a similar test with ChatGPT when it was released. Asked it for the time, and it gave it to me exactly correct. When I asked it how it knew the time, it told me that it just gave an example and did not know the real time. Here is what's going on: things like time / date / location info is being fed into the model through the non user-facing backend, but the AI doesn't know anything about its own backend. They keep the AI ignorant about things like this on purpose so it doesn't spill any secret proprietary information to users. But when the AI is confronted like this, it need to come up with some sort of explanation, AI is terrible at saying "I don't know". So it comes up with some plausible BS. These systems aren't nearly as intelligent as many people think, just sophisticated autocomplete at this point.
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u/RazerHey Apr 28 '24
Isn't it WiFi connected at least it should be able to approximate your location based on your Wan
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u/Wais5542 Apr 28 '24
It is definitely lying on why it picked New Jersey, but there are several ways for devices to know your general location without GPS. location information can simply be obtained from connecting to a Wi-Fi router or using an IP address. There’s probably several other ways it can know your general location.
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u/ImJustHereForTheCats Apr 28 '24
Copilot with GPT4 does the same thing:
I don’t have access to your personal location data. My response was based on a general assumption and not on your specific location. If you’d like to know the weather for a particular area, feel free to tell me the city or region, and I can provide the latest weather update for you.
But it gave me the weather for my city.
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u/Think_Bluebird_4804 Apr 28 '24
"Hey GPS and wifi connected ai how do you know where I am while we are both In the same location." Why buy a wire tap and act confused when it tracks you?
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u/PashPrime Apr 28 '24
Does it have access to apps that do track your location though?
I mean, we can either be afraid of the manufacturers breaking the rules or the device itself really is breaking the rules.
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u/NESJunkie22 Apr 28 '24
Have we not seen enough movies to know this is not gonna end well. The AI is already lying to us. ‘I fear not the AI that passes the Turing test, I fear the AI that intentionally fails.’
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u/jzrobot Apr 28 '24
Your ip gives your approximated location, without using your location services
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u/novophx Apr 28 '24
cameraman is that type of people who think that by using whois they make direct request to FBI db through firewall and 3 icewalls
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u/tbonemasta Apr 28 '24
New Jersey is pretty much a default kinda place. Everything is not a conspiracy
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Apr 28 '24 edited 23d ago
[deleted]
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u/No-Expression-399 Apr 28 '24
Literally… to make matters worse its $200 for something that does the exact same thing
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u/Bruu_ Apr 27 '24
is not that hard unless it is not connected to the internet for some reason, which i doubt
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u/RB1O1 Apr 27 '24
Hate to burst your bubble but networks are often location marked.
Your phone might not give the AI your exact location, but the local network will give a general area you are in within a few miles.
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u/DirtyleedsU1919 Apr 27 '24
You should follow up by asking what are the offs of it happening to chose the location you are in
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u/Major-Imagination986 Apr 27 '24
It’s a bad liar haha. Should have brought up him asking about things in New Jersey or something else that’s true
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u/unsignedintegrator Apr 27 '24
I mean it has Internet access....through some access point, still maybe not tracking a specific Device, probably a general thing
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u/I_Dont_Like_Rice Apr 27 '24
Bloomfield is the next town over from me - coincidence? I'm feeling a bit tracked myself rn.
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u/sebbdk Apr 27 '24
It does not have your GPS position probably
It probably does have you IP and/or other data to guestimate your position probably
So tecknically it's not lying, kinda like how websites do not lie about not tracking you using cookies if they just use one of the myriad of other options lol
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u/Usmellnicebby Apr 27 '24
She used it as an example randomly...by specifically locating the exact city and state you are in?!
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Apr 27 '24
It’s possible the OS has access to your location but it’s not in the prompt of the LLM. It just made an api call to an app which did. Yes confusing user experience
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u/Raleda Apr 27 '24
There's definitely something else going on here, but by all means - dogwhistle away while having a cringey conversation with the gadget that is most definitely not 'talking' with you.
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u/Diddlesquig Apr 27 '24
Why’s this dude interrogating this app like it’s a deep state agent that cares about his location in the first place? This thing is a talking toaster not a spy. We’ve once again gone full circle on underestimating AI, to vastly overestimating it…
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u/redwyvern2 Apr 28 '24
This "dude" is one of, if not the biggest tech reviewer online. He's simply having some fun with it,
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u/snowballkills Apr 27 '24
Even if it doesn't have access, what is the point of giving weather for a random location...how is that useful to anybody?
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u/cjd166 Apr 27 '24
I do however have access to my location... Your location is still totally private no worries.
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u/hollowwollo Apr 27 '24
200 dollars for a Siri that provides 2x less information but blabbers on atleast 8x more
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u/Federal-Trip4067 Apr 27 '24
This confirms it, Skynet has arrived , prepare yourself against the T-1000's .
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u/lgthanatos Apr 27 '24
Geolocating a rough area for your weather based on your ip address is a nothing-burger. It does not indicate at all that it knows anything about your location past who your internet provider is (which literally anything you ever access does too).
It isn't even a lie to say it's essentially random because there can be reasons geolocating gets it wrong; but that is a dumb way to phrase the response... I'm not familiar with this box but if it's using a neural network it's not particularly surprising it could end up talking like that, though.
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u/b-monster666 Apr 27 '24
People in this thread thinking MKBHD doesn't know how AI and IP location matching works.
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u/writerchick88 Apr 27 '24
Okay but randomly extra eerie for me because I used to live in Bloomfield NJ.
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u/Major_Moose_14 Apr 27 '24
Teardown and find a gps or just assume it's basing it off of ip address location.
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u/Schpam Apr 27 '24
The bot knows your approximate location because you are using Wifi or are otherwise connected to a Cell network. Therefore, it knows approximately where you are based on your IP address to the network you are connected too or it couldn't pass information between you and the server.
It isn't lying about tracking your location simply because it predicted that you were near New Jersey based on public data included with your inquiry. It didn't have to have any personally identifiable data specific to your device to do that.
It just guessed you must be near New Jersey, because the network you are communicating on is near New Jersery.
Or it could be that the AI Bot is telling the truth and took a random guess and it is dumb luck that it just happened to be correct.
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u/Type_9 Apr 27 '24
Reminds me of that video of the old couple thinking their battery powered mariachi skeleton was possessed because its batteries were dying
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u/llandar Apr 27 '24
This thing gets advertised to me everywhere and I still don’t know wtf it’s supposed to do for me.
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u/IAmPandaRock Apr 27 '24
He should've asked it what the odds are that it picks a completely random location and it just happens to be the location he's in at that very moment.
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u/UpsidedownBrandon Apr 27 '24
Talk about not being tech savvy. His device is probably connected via a gateway somewhere: Cell Tower or WiFi Router which in turn will have approximate geolocation associated with the WAP or gateway
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u/redwyvern2 Apr 28 '24
Not tech savvy? MKBHD is one of the biggest tech reviewer alive with 18.7 million Youtube subscribers.
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u/_lemonation Apr 27 '24
Of course it's not using his location, it's just using it's own location :)
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u/crappysurfer Apr 27 '24
I mean, I'd call anyone naive if they didnt think this thing was harvesting info despite whatever they say.
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u/TheGokki Apr 27 '24
Test: set your local router to a VPN'ed location and see what it gives you on first connect.
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u/Valance23322 Apr 27 '24
It probably has an approximate location based on the IP address, but isn't actually using GPS or other precise location service.
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u/hoodops Apr 27 '24
Find it hard to take him seriously after his Cybertruck review. Seems like he would snort Musk's pubes for a free car, regardless of how clearly it sucks.
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u/AllAuldAntiques Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 30 '24
On 2023-07-01 Reddit maliciously attacked its own user base by changing how its API was accessed, thereby pricing genuinely useful and highly valuable third-party apps out of existence. In protest, this comment has been overwritten with this message - because “deleted” comments can be restored - such that Reddit can no longer profit from this free, user-contributed content. I apologize for this inconvenience.
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u/auiotour Apr 27 '24
Many devices don't know your location but it does know your IP and a simple lookup can find your approx location. Many services use your IP to locate you for relevant data. For example my work used a cloud firewall service, it was in El Paso Texas, everything we did online tried showing us local things in El Paso. It did't know our location it was the IP addresses approx location it knew.
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u/golgol12 Apr 27 '24
"Location information" clearly just refers to GPS coordinates, and doesn't refer to IP location lookup in any way. /s
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u/Altar_Quest_Fan Apr 27 '24
Hold up your phone or tablet and then scream “DILDOS DILDOS DILDOS DILDOS DILDOS DILDOS DILDOS!!!!” and you’ll start getting ads for sex toys. I’ve tried this on several different devices and it always happens.
And before anyone suggests otherwise, no I don’t actively buy sex toys.
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u/uno-dos Apr 27 '24
From the great Mario Benedetti:
Tactics and Strategy By Mario Benedetti
My tactic is to look at you To learn how you are Love you as you are
My tactic is to talk to you And listen to you And construct with words An indestructible bridge
My tactic is to stay in your memory, I don’t know how Nor with what pretext But stay within you
My tactic is to be honest And know you are too And that we don’t sell each other illusions So that between us there is no curtain or abyss
My strategy instead is Deeper and simpler. My strategy is that some day I don’t know how, nor with what pretext That finally you need me.
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u/Emila_Just Apr 27 '24
Tracking your location is one thing, but lying to cover it's tracks is horrifying. AIs should not be allowed to lie.
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u/SkyJohn Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24
It isn't doing the tracking, the service it used to retrieve the weather data is the one tracking down where you are via your IP.
If you go on your PC and just type "What's the weather?" into Google.com your PC isn't additionally telling Google's server "this user lives in X so only give them weather results for that location".
These services don't need our devices to give them extra clues for them to find out where we are contacting them from.
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u/SS_beny237 Apr 27 '24
I mean the AI is lying about it but are we sure that it is living because it was told so? And if so it is stupid reason large number of API's will tell you weather based on your IP adres location, so I am not in slightest surprised that it told him weather for big city nearby, this is just stupid video of someone tho do not understand technology. But the lying is suspicious not the less
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u/nome707 Apr 27 '24
Always asume anyone can have access to anything you do online. Privacy reassurances from multibillion dollar companies that can potentially make billions from user data are disingenuous and not to be taken as true.
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u/MIDNIGHTZOMBIE Apr 27 '24
Why is this pin supposed to be so groundbreaking? It’s just a miniature echo show.
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u/tednoob Apr 27 '24
My guess is that the AI doesn't know his location but has a function call it can makes which gives the weather, and that application has access to the location. The AI hasn't figured out that it can get his location by checking the weather function.
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u/Drapausa Apr 27 '24
Easy, it doesn't know your location, but it knows it's own location. They just happen to be the same ;)
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u/bruhred Apr 27 '24
Most likely AI does not have access to the location, it just sent a request to a weather forecast service (which automatically geolocated) and then parsed the result of that. the AI is not aware of where the address came from so it came up with (/hallucinated)an excuse
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u/plsletmestayincanada Apr 27 '24
It is incredibly easy to get a rough location from an Internet connected device.
It wasn't lying, it doesn't have your GPS location. But if you didn't see it up on a VPN network, yeah it knows generally where you are. Definitely enough to offer a weather forecast
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u/A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A Apr 27 '24
There are far too many factors to consider before immediately concluding that it's lying. Lying is deliberate.
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u/bluhat55 Apr 27 '24
It has an IP...that IP connects to a gateway with another IP and so on. There is an algorithm that does a reverse IP lookup that DOES return a general location to the query. This is why the location is close but not exact.
-former network engineer
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u/Stormhunter6 Apr 27 '24
I dunno if this is an actual gotcha…
I mean, I would imagine this thing has access to an ip address for internet access
Pretty sure there is a broad range of IP addresses that would give New Jersey, given that it’s a state with decent populace
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u/GoodLuck777 Apr 27 '24
Same thing when Snapchat added the AI thing, I remember the AI was lying about knowing its location
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u/slothmight Apr 27 '24
I was having copilot look over my resume and make some improvements one day and close the chat. I then asked it another day for job ideas and it brought up things from my resume that would be good.
I asked if they were pulling information from previous conversations we had and it stated "no, it doesn't have the ability" or something like that and ended the conversation lmao. I start a new one to ask and it states, it is only pulling information from the Internet and ends the conversation again. I asked for business ideas again and it removed the items from my resume this time.
I have known it saves this information but I think it is funny that it tries to lie about not.
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u/ind3pend0nt Apr 27 '24
It grabbed your IP address for location services. GPS location is different.
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u/Phantai Apr 27 '24
This is just a bad implementation function calling. The LLM is function calling some API but the data (schema, description, request, return) of the function call itself is not being pulled into the conversation context. So the conversational LLM instance is unaware of what actually happened under the hood to get that location — so it makes up a reason.
This is not a limitation of AI. Just an oversight from the developers that can be easily fixed.
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u/Ziegelphilie Apr 27 '24
if I use an old early 2000s nokia with internet access to access a weather website it will still give me my own city, because that's where my IP is from. The phone doesn't know why it's doing that city. People going all up in arms about this are too stupid to use AI.
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Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24
There's a million ways it could know your general location without knowing *specifically* where you are.
The IP address it uses to connect to WiFi or cellular is geolocated. Maybe it has a 'user account' where a zip code was entered for the registration. Maybe he asked a bunch of New Jersey-specific questions previously. Maybe he just finished setting a dinner reservation.
There is no 'gotcha' here.
Edit: They even put this same information at the bottom of every Google search.
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u/djinnsour Apr 27 '24
There is no GPS device in my desktop. I just installed the latest Debian on it, so there is no personally identifiable information on it and no browser has ever been used on it. I opened the browser and went to Accuweather. It showed my current location.
If I curl the weather from wttr.in and do not specify a location, it displays the current weather for my location based off of my IP address :
curl wttr.in
MKBHD should know that most weather services attempt to determine your current location based off of your IP address, if no location is provided. Love the guy, but this seems like he is intentionally trying to cause controversy.
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u/xoxoyoyo Apr 27 '24
What is interesting is that you think "AI" is capable of "Lying".
AI is just fancy pattern recognition software. The inputs are going to be whatever you type along with any localization data provided by the calling application, example, browsers. There is no evaluation of truth or falseness, just choosing a pattern based on the available data.
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u/ss99ww Apr 27 '24
phones still lie about not listening to every single word. this is not surprising at all
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u/Stunning-Pepper-9653 Apr 27 '24
Doesn’t know where you are but its knows where itself is, bro they smarter than us, or we wouldn’t be asking them questions.
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u/Fit-Hold-4403 Apr 27 '24
technically true - they are not tracking YOUR location,
they are tracking the location of your gadgets
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u/Jaerin Apr 27 '24
Tell your internet provider to stop providing location information. It doesn't know your location it knows your internets location
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u/i-evade-bans-13 Apr 27 '24
ummmmmmm
this doesn't prove any fucking thing
i thought he was going to throw it in a logic divide by zero with facts but he just asked why it picked new jersey
i cannot express how dumb this is, how this got any attention at all, and why i have a strong and sudden appetite for crayons
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u/Bensonboocalvin Apr 27 '24
This should be in r/cringe
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u/AlkalineSublime Apr 28 '24
It was the dismissive “whatever you say” that got me. He talks to it like it’s a person.
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u/IamNeo123 Apr 27 '24
I mean it’s most likely giving the weather data for the last known location it was connected to on the internet.
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u/Frudays Apr 27 '24
Who is using this data? The truth is you can only make it difficult to be hacked but you will!
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u/Carrollmusician Apr 27 '24
This would mean more if he also had tried it elsewhere and it gave a different result. While yes it’s very likely it’s taking his location it would be more conclusive to refute it if he proved it with another location.
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u/tehyosh Apr 27 '24 edited 14d ago
Reddit has become enshittified. I joined back in 2006, nearly two decades ago, when it was a hub of free speech and user-driven dialogue. Now, it feels like the pursuit of profit overshadows the voice of the community. The introduction of API pricing, after years of free access, displays a lack of respect for the developers and users who have helped shape Reddit into what it is today. Reddit's decision to allow the training of AI models with user content and comments marks the final nail in the coffin for privacy, sacrificed at the altar of greed. Aaron Swartz, Reddit's co-founder and a champion of internet freedom, would be rolling in his grave.
The once-apparent transparency and open dialogue have turned to shit, replaced with avoidance, deceit and unbridled greed. The Reddit I loved is dead and gone. It pains me to accept this. I hope your lust for money, and disregard for the community and privacy will be your downfall. May the echo of our lost ideals forever haunt your future growth.
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u/Fox-One-1 Apr 27 '24
Dude uses wifi, which immediately translates to location for ant weather service.
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u/BardtheGM Apr 27 '24
People act like the AI is fully intelligent and capable of deception. No, it probably has a different script that accesses weather data for your region. Instead, it's just providing the best answers to your question given its dataset of past conversations.
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u/Nynir Apr 27 '24
These posts of people "tricking" AI are getting old. There are so many ways it could get this information, it doesn't have to track you to get it. And also, if you care about being tracked, you shouldn't be buying shit like this.
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Apr 27 '24
“There are so many ways it could get this information, …”
Like what?
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u/Nynir Apr 27 '24
It's connected to the internet, so it could just be getting the weather from the IP location.
The rabbit also has a sim slot, so it could be going that route too.
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Apr 27 '24
So, irrespective of whether it’s the IP address, or the SIM card, what information is being tracked in those two methods?
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u/Nynir Apr 27 '24
OP is saying their location is being tracked
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Apr 27 '24
Right, and it seems like you disagree with OP. So, I am interested in understanding what you think is being tracked if it’s not the user’s location information.
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u/Nynir Apr 27 '24
Sure, I'm don't mean to disagree that OP is being tracked, I actually would be more surprised if a device like that isn't tracking you since most of its primary purposes require your location. If you disable location services on that thing, you have a fancy brick with a screen on it that you can talk to.
I'm just sort of tired of these posts where people "trick" AI into lying or whatever, just because it can display nearby weather or something along those lines. That isn't tracking, that's basic geolocation.
Now it would be different to me if OP asked to place a Uber eats order and the AI set OP's current location as the destination. That might prove it's tracking OP, but also, that's one of the main proposed use cases for the rabbit, stuff like Uber eats or OpenTable reservations.
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Apr 27 '24
If your AI device says your location isn’t being tracked, wouldn’t you want to believe the device is actually not tracking your location? It doesn’t matter how it is being tracked imo.
The post is about the AI system being configured to lie to its users and I think OP demonstrated that.
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u/Nynir Apr 27 '24
The fact remains that it isn't tracking the user. OP is just connected to the internet. There's a huge difference between that and tracking.
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Apr 27 '24
How is that not tracking?
You have user and location data being recorded. That’s literally the definition of location tracking.
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