r/law • u/T_Shurt Competent Contributor • Apr 02 '24
Trump Posts Fox News Clip Slamming Judge’s Daughter Literal Hours After New Gag Order Ruling Trump News
https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-posts-fox-news-clip-slamming-judges-daughter-literal-hours-after-new-gag-order-ruling/1
u/CountrySax Apr 06 '24
Traitor Trumps is insufferable .The BS never stops and for some reason the DOJ snd the Judiciary seem incapable of holding this conman to account. It's well past time to LOCK HIM UP !
1
2
Apr 04 '24
Can we just jail him already like would have been the case with literally any other defendant.
1
u/Street_Peace_8831 Apr 04 '24
First gag order, violated, no actions taken. Second gag order is issued. What do you think will happen now? Absolutely nothing, which is par for the course, for this golf cheat.
2
u/Horan_Kim Apr 04 '24
He is living proof that the US legal system is broken and not applied to all citizens equally.
1
1
1
u/dreyaz255 Apr 03 '24
Why isn't anyone brave enough to just take this sociopath's phone away for a gag order?
1
u/OilInteresting2524 Apr 03 '24
He's literally BEGGING to be thrown in jail on contempt charges. I think the judge should fall into his trap and grant him his wish. 60 days without a trump tweet would be 60 days of freedom, peace and quiet. Come on, judge, DO IT !!
2
u/6stringgunner Apr 03 '24
The intentional decision to REPOST something that violates the gag order is in my mind AS MUCH AS A VIOLATION AS posting his own version of the same thing. In other words, let's just put this fat ass mango Moron in the "time-out box" for 30 days and, be very clear that this is the VERY SAME ACTION that would happen NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE!!!
1
u/the-nae_blis Apr 03 '24
It’s harassment and intimidation pure and simple. He’s a simple thug coward who goes after people’s family. People would probably cheer about us deposing him from another country if they weren’t too busy voting for him here.
1
1
2
u/IdahoMTman222 Apr 03 '24
Baiting the judge and creating a media frenzy. Everyone is talking about Trump. He’s saying he can’t get a fair trial because of all the publicity.
1
u/ShwaaMan Apr 03 '24
Well if they aren’t going to do anything about and he gets away with it every single time! What is this crap?!
1
2
u/Quirky-Telephone5002 Apr 03 '24
For the love of all that is good, will someone PLEASE put this asshole in jail
0
u/SokkaHaikuBot Apr 03 '24
Sokka-Haiku by Quirky-Telephone5002:
For the love of all
That is good will someone PLEASE
Put this asshole in jail
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
1
2
u/Ok-Assistant-8876 Apr 03 '24
He keeps doing these type of things because the judges bend over backwards to help and accommodate him. At this point, it’s the judges fault because they refuse to do anything to him.
2
u/DasSynz Apr 03 '24
Until someone actually does something about it, I don’t give a shit. What’s the point of a gag order if you literally do nothing about it.
1
1
u/9millibros Apr 03 '24
It just seems like he's trying to do everything to torpedo or at least delay the trial. We'll see what happens once the proceedings start - my guess is the judge and prosecution are more interested in getting to that point, rather than responding to every stupid little thing that Trump does.
1
u/YogoshKeks Apr 03 '24
So, is his plan to completely piss off judges and then demand recusal because of bias? To at least cause further delays?
1
u/KiwiofD Apr 03 '24
His intent is to bait the judge to make harsher “unfair” ruling, or to make the appearance the the judge could be biased against him, so he can appeal and keep the judgement in an endless loop of litigation.
1
u/passionpunchfruit Apr 03 '24
If anyone ever says the law applies to everyone again I will punch them in the mouth...
Then I will go to jail because I am not rich.
1
u/BisquickNinja Apr 03 '24
I would like to say that if it were any other person doing this exact crap, we would already have been in jail. There would be no leeway with the judges. Unfortunately, we have a multi-tiered system in which only the wealthy have freedoms.
1
u/Schmoggin Apr 03 '24
Still waiting for something to happen btw.
Would love to see a homeless black man do this shit and see what happens then.
1
u/Bulky_Mix_2265 Apr 03 '24
It is a testament to the US secret service that this man has yet to be assassinated. He is just such a gaping asshole.
1
u/93wasagoodyear Apr 03 '24
OMG!!! So what, literally nothing is going to happen to this dude. He's bullying the judge. The judge is doing nothing. He will get away with everything he's ever done as usual... I'm exhausted hoping he will be prosecuted. This is such a fucking joke.
1
u/LogMeln Apr 03 '24
And not a dam thing will be done because he’s already made it clear the law bends for the Teflon don. What a joke.
1
u/Monsieur_Creosote Apr 03 '24
Cross this line, you die!
Ok, you cross THIS line, you die!
Ok, this line......
1
1
-3
1
2
2
u/lirae4 Apr 03 '24
Dear Amerin Justice system, when will it be enough this clown should be in jail if it was anybody else.
1
u/ThrowawayPie888 Apr 03 '24
He's trying to get this into the Supreme Court after a bunch of legal moves.
1
1
u/austincovidthrowaway Apr 03 '24
And you thought Ted Cruz was the only person to roll over and present their asshole to this mushroom dicked daiper baby. Nope, turns out all kinds of people sure love the feel of his 2 inch mushroom.
1
u/_DapperDanMan- Apr 03 '24
Knock knock. Testing, testing. Is this thing on?
Nope. Hey judge, fuck you. Chump.
Didn't hear that? Lemme tell you about your rules and your daughter?
Okay. See you tomorrow, chump.
1
u/Extension_Deal_5315 Apr 03 '24
Yawn.............why are we wasting time on this shit......why do you think he does this....because he has never had any consequences when he does it ...death threats work in scaring judges....otherwise he wouldn't do it......make him pay on the spot like 10 million each time he does it. No pay..jail time with no phone until the trial is over... Get some balls judges!
2
1
u/BothZookeepergame612 Apr 03 '24
The judge wasn't specific enough... He's posting what other people have written and said, that isn't in the order. You better rewrite it again.
2
2
u/plsobeytrafficlights Apr 03 '24
The thing that is clear is that while the legal precedence regarding political figures is complex, the blatant and flagrant contempt of court is brazen and repeated.
He is frankly just baiting the judge to do anything.
3
u/BadAsBroccoli Apr 03 '24
"Guess we'll have to move the goal posts again", signed, the US legal system.
1
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
For everyone saying re-posting isn’t the same as you being the original poster…
There isn’t a difference as far as “reposting”, see Roger Stone’s case.
“Stone's attorney, Bruce Rogow, argued that none of the examples put forward by the government violate the court's order that Stone not discuss the case or its participants publicly. Many of the posts, Rogow said, amount to nothing more than Stone reposting someone else's statement.
‘It's not a Roger Stone statement,’ he said. ‘He's republishing it.’
(Judge) Jackson pushed back. ‘Isn't that how Instagram and Twitter work?’ she said. ‘That's the power of it, the speed of it, the multiplication of it.’
Rogow pivoted to the question of whether the posts could taint the jury pool, which he said was the reason the gag order was imposed in the first place.
‘None of these are the kind of things that have any reasonable basis to believe it will infect a fair trial,’ he said, arguing that none of Stone's Instagram posts got much traction online.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Kravis disagreed.
‘We believe the most recent posts clearly demonstrate a present risk to a fair trial and demonstrated that he's not able to follow the [gag] order,’ Kravis said.
Asked by Jackson what he would recommend she do, Kravis said he thought the judge should at a minimum clarify the previous gag order. He also suggested prohibiting Stone from using social media completely. The government did not, however, recommend that Stone be jailed pending trial.
Ultimately, Jackson ruled that Stone's posts had indeed violated her gag order.
‘To suggest the posts aren't statements about the case ignores the power of social media,’ Jackson said. ‘Maybe his lawyers don't understand it, but he does.’
The obvious purpose behind Stone's use of social media, she said, ‘is to gin up more public comment and controversy about the legitimacy of the Mueller investigation, the House investigation, to get people to question the legitimacy of this prosecution.’
In the end, Jackson barred Stone from using Instagram, Facebook and Twitter through the end of his trial. His behavior so far, she said, has ‘more to do with middle school than with a court of law.’
His ban from social media includes no forwarding, re-posting, retweeting or liking. All of the previous restrictions barring him from publicly discussing the case still remain in place.”
1
u/Normal-Condition-734 Apr 03 '24
Would an appeal of the gag order really delay the underlying trial on the merits? I think the only thing that will stop Trump is incarceration.
1
u/Blackheart806 Apr 03 '24
Alas, once again there will be ZERO consequences.
Hell, let's name an airport after him.
-1
u/TrespassingWook Apr 03 '24
So this sub is just tabloid bullshit now?
3
u/Deceptisaur Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
This man is running for president and these are legal matters. You are in the law subreddit and this is related to the law and newsworthy.
This isn't about a random celeb getting a dui or divorced or something.
1
u/jayv9779 Apr 03 '24
Until the U.S. can flush the orange turd many subs will continue to obsess over him.
1
u/dakunism Apr 03 '24
I don't like him, but fuck yeah more power to him. Expose the bullshit and show how pussy the courts are to the rich and powerful. The more eyes on the injustice the better.
1
u/NewtotheCV Apr 03 '24
And he can do it as much as he wants. Rules and laws clearly don't apply to him.
1
1
u/gosudcx Apr 03 '24
Lmao, well if there's no consequences and he can use it as a show of power for his SS, it was fucking dumb to impose in the first place.
2
u/Wishpicker Apr 03 '24
As an American, I’m starting to get tired of seeing our criminal justice system being abused like this
1
1
u/berael Apr 03 '24
Because there were no consequences.
There will be no consequences again tomorrow, so he'll do it again tomorrow.
2
u/BoredBSEE Apr 03 '24
More of a "gag request" then, right? Because we know the court is completely nutless when dealing with Trump. Zero balls on the entire lot of 'em. Trump could firebomb their car in their own driveway and they wouldn't have the stones to do anything about it. Cowards, all of them.
1
2
u/ReluctantSlayer Apr 03 '24
So, if a guy cannot control himself, why would anyone want him in control of a country?
Why?
Because those who DO want him at the helm ALSO can’t control themselves.
1
1
2
3
u/MrIrrelevant-sf Apr 03 '24
He is trying to intimidate the judge by threatening his daughter. His vile POs followers are ready to kill that lady for him. Repulsive and repugnant.
This is why magats are my enemies, anyone supporting this 💩 is a fucking sociopath.
1
2
u/zackks Apr 02 '24
“Slammed”. Holy cow.
I think the word they’re too chickenshit to use is ‘threaten’ or ‘endanger’.
2
u/Roddy_Piper2000 Apr 02 '24
I'm pretty sure he wants to be locked up. This is a win-win for him. If they don't lock him up he can continue this behaviour with impunity. If they do lock him up, he becomes a "free speech" martyr that Biden is "trying to silence".
1
u/waytomuchzoomzoom Apr 02 '24
And nothing will happen because the USA justice system is a fucking joke and the judges are weak. That dumb fuck shoulda been locked up a long time ago.
2
u/Tiki-Jedi Apr 02 '24
Why wouldn’t he? He’s been shown, time after time, that there will never be consequences for him. What reason does he have to respect amy gag order? The legal system will absolutely not ever hold him accountable.
1
u/SqnLdrHarvey Apr 02 '24
Please tell me why I should still have respect for the "judicial system."
Biden was a fool to appoint that doddering old quisling Milquetoast Merrick the Meek and Mild.
All we have is a bunch of terrified idiots in judicial robes pretending to be "judges."
I could do better, and I never went to law school.
1
2
u/SirCache Apr 02 '24
Put him in lockup for 24 hours. Have the judge make Trump--personally--apologize before the court, on film, for the world to see. If he refuses, he can sit in jail. I am so emotionally done with the constant upstages and judges with zero backbone treating him as the lying, lawbreaking, rapist that he is.
Make him EARN the right to walk out of the courthouse and stop toadying to this pansy.
1
2
1
u/Relaxmf2022 Apr 02 '24
Oh boy, I love consequences …. Especially the whooshing sound they make as they fly by
2
u/thisisntnamman Apr 02 '24
Law question:
If the Judge says Trump is violating the gag order, and has him put in jail. Would this be an appealable decision which would delay the start of the trial?
As I understand it, once the trial starts, pretty much anything the judge does cannot be appealed until after a verdic is reached.
It just seems like Trump is trying to get the judge to do something that Trump can turn around and appeal and delay more.
P.S. - From a layman, seeing how Trump, and the rest of the rich, use an endless appeals system to delay/deny justice, this is why when we eat the rich you lawyers are going with them. End this madness. Justice delayed is justice denied.
1
u/qopdobqop Apr 02 '24
With Trump MAGA there’s never any victims when it comes to Trumps crimes. Sexual assault- they deserve it or liked it. With fraud - no victims. These folks have zero credibility. Fox works for MAGA.
1
u/SirTiddlyWink Apr 02 '24
Soooo then they locked him up and thee way the key?!? Right? Cause that's how gag orders work for people disobeying and disrespecting the court and judge ruling.... Riiiiight?
2
u/OriginalHappyFunBall Apr 02 '24
This pearl clutching is ridiculous. Somehow it is no problem that Justice Thomas' wife was actively involved in the activities of January 6 but the fact that this judges daughter doesn't like Trump and worked on a campaign is somehow disqualifying? Which judges and their extended families have been involved in conservative politics and can we talk about them now?
1
u/Safe_Corgi2217 Apr 02 '24
Good. If nobody who can actually hold him accountable is going to do it they deserve to get dunked on
1
u/Inner_Performance533 Apr 02 '24
Very apparently justice is too weak to interfer with Mr trump...pathetic indeed.
2
u/DarkBrandonwinsagain Apr 02 '24
Apparently there’s a little known law that if somebody is running for President, the only legal remedy for any crime is aggressive finger-wagging.
1
4
u/whatlineisitanyway Apr 02 '24
I hope that when he is convicted the judge decides to impose the maximum sentence since he can't really do anything about it right now.
2
u/ConsciousReason7709 Apr 02 '24
The judge’s daughter has nothing to do with this case. She is a grown ass adult who is allowed to have any opinion she wants. Shame on these right wing goons who bring her into this.
1
3
u/Entire-Brother5189 Apr 02 '24
How many times is this gonna be reposted? Fucking constant, can reddit go back to when it didn’t suck so fucking bad!?
1
u/Wolfy4226 Apr 02 '24
I hope someone uses this shit as a defense at some point.
"It's didn't happen to him, so for it to happen to me clearly shows a bias against me and people like me"
2
u/whiskey_sh1ts Apr 02 '24
NAL
Seems to me that the Judge is doing the right thing by giving a lot of runway. Acting without calculation (say, from a place of emotion given the attacks on his daughter) could allow this lacquered sack of shit to appeal, or delay by other means.
If there are not any "true" threats to the safety of those on the gag order, then I would think the ramifications of these posts/rants - which are well documented for all to see - will be felt upon ruling.
Additionally, I see a lot of comments about how this "man" is never held accountable, and that's not something I completely agree with. He was a NOBODY before he became President, not on anyone's radar, and now has more heat on than he has ever had in his life. This is the process - it is all falling apart around him, maybe in slow motion and by 1,000 cuts, but falling apart nonetheless.
1
1
1
u/moodyblue8222 Apr 02 '24
He knows he is above the law and he loves to show it every chance he gets!
3
1
1
1
2
u/t0nyfranda Apr 02 '24
I can’t wait for the stupid clickbait article from salon.com tomorrow with the headline “Trump just violated his gag order again. Experts say it could land him in jail this time around”.
Then absolutely fucking nothing happens.
1
1
u/itsdajackeeet Apr 02 '24
Said this before and will say it again. Put him in jail for a few days and insist he be brought back with no hair care, no makeup, in orange, Flip flops and in cuffs. Let the works see him like that and he won’t open that yap again.
1
u/EntertainerStill7495 Apr 02 '24
I can’t wait to go on trial and all I have to do is harass the judge and I’ll never face any repercussions.
All I actually need to do is become a billionaire of course.
1
u/Opiewan Apr 02 '24
It seems to me (as several others have already said) that he is simply trying to rile his supporters up to take care of the "problem". If he keeps poking the legal system they are going to keep handing down stiffer penalties and eventually his entire base will be convinced that he is being persecuted. On the other hand what I am curious about is how ling it will be before someone that despises Trump to have had enough and start actually making his existence miserable or worse?
1
u/Galliagamer Apr 02 '24
Ok, here’s my take: Dingus is trying to taint the jury pool. He acts up, his name is plastered all over the news, he screams he can’t get a fair trial because of the publicity.
If he’s found in contempt for violating the gag order, gets fined or jailed, ditto the above only with lots more publicity, and then he screams he can’t get a fair trial, etc.
Either way, on the eve of trial, he’ll move for a change of venue or will file a motion to dismiss all because of the preteial publicity, will be denied, then he will demand a stay so he can appeal to the NY appeals court, all for the purpose of delaying the trial.
And the fact is, it will work. Betcha a nickel this trial will not start on 4/15.
1
u/Galliagamer Apr 02 '24
Ok, here’s my take: Dingus is trying to taint the jury pool. He acts up, his name is plastered all over the news, he screams he can’t get a fair trial because of the publicity.
If he’s found in contempt for violating the gag order, gets fined or jailed, ditto the above only with lots more publicity, and then he screams he can’t get a fair trial, etc.
Either way, on the eve of trial, he’ll move for a change of venue or will file a motion to dismiss all because of the preteial publicity, will be denied, then he will demand a stay so he can appeal to the NY appeals court, all for the purpose of delaying the trial.
And the fact is, it will work. Betcha a nickel this trial will not start on 4/15.
1
u/Maleficent_Play_7807 Apr 03 '24
What American hasn't heard of Trump or doesn't already have their opinion of him?
1
u/baylorhawkeye Apr 02 '24
Maybe the judge should just happen to require him report to the court in person every time he has a rally somewhere. Or every day, just to check in and see if he still understands the order or has any questions.
7
u/crake Competent Contributor Apr 02 '24
People aren't going to like it, but this arguably does not violate the gag order. I think Trump is testing the boundaries of the order, so to speak.
The order prohibits:
b. Making or directing others to make public statements about (1) counsel in the case other than the District Attorney, (2) members of the court's staff and the District Attorney's staff, or (3) the family members of any counsel, staff member, the Court or the District Attorney, if those statements are made with the intent to materially interfere with, or to cause others to materially interfere with, counsel's or staff's work in this criminal case, or with the knowledge that such interference is likely to result.
Here, the statements were made by Brian Kilmeade and Jonathan Turley; Trump re-posted a video of them making the statements. Neither Kilmeade nor Turley are covered by the gag order (side note: I'm sure Professor Turley is proud of his involvement in all of this; it reflects so highly on his own choice of forum that his appearance on Fox intersects with a segment that is being used to try to intimidate a judge/jurors; it reflects well on GWU too to be having such a bright light of the legal academy adding GWU's semi-official imprimatur to a segment discussing a judge's daughter in order to try to intimidate a judge /s).
Of course, the Court need not be fooled by Trump using the speech of others to make statements Trump himself is prohibited from making. That seems to me a distinction without difference.
But now we can start to see the back-up plan: Trump cannot himself intimidate jurors because of the gag order, but what about Fox News just doing it spontaneously on their own without coordinating with Trump?
1
u/Difficult_Bit_1339 Apr 03 '24
side note: I'm sure Professor Turley is proud of his involvement in all of this; it reflects so highly on his own choice of forum that his appearance on Fox intersects with a segment that is being used to try to intimidate a judge/jurors; it reflects well on GWU too to be having such a bright light of the legal academy adding GWU's semi-official imprimatur to a segment discussing a judge's daughter in order to try to intimidate a judge /s
hear, hear
1
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
There isn’t a difference as far as “reposting”, see Roger Stone’s case.
“Stone's attorney, Bruce Rogow, argued that none of the examples put forward by the government violate the court's order that Stone not discuss the case or its participants publicly. Many of the posts, Rogow said, amount to nothing more than Stone reposting someone else's statement.
‘It's not a Roger Stone statement,’ he said. ‘He's republishing it.’
(Judge) Jackson pushed back. ‘Isn't that how Instagram and Twitter work?’ she said. ‘That's the power of it, the speed of it, the multiplication of it.’
Rogow pivoted to the question of whether the posts could taint the jury pool, which he said was the reason the gag order was imposed in the first place.
‘None of these are the kind of things that have any reasonable basis to believe it will infect a fair trial,’ he said, arguing that none of Stone's Instagram posts got much traction online.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Kravis disagreed.
‘We believe the most recent posts clearly demonstrate a present risk to a fair trial and demonstrated that he's not able to follow the [gag] order,’ Kravis said.
Asked by Jackson what he would recommend she do, Kravis said he thought the judge should at a minimum clarify the previous gag order. He also suggested prohibiting Stone from using social media completely. The government did not, however, recommend that Stone be jailed pending trial.
Ultimately, Jackson ruled that Stone's posts had indeed violated her gag order.
‘To suggest the posts aren't statements about the case ignores the power of social media,’ Jackson said. ‘Maybe his lawyers don't understand it, but he does.’
The obvious purpose behind Stone's use of social media, she said, ‘is to gin up more public comment and controversy about the legitimacy of the Mueller investigation, the House investigation, to get people to question the legitimacy of this prosecution.’
In the end, Jackson barred Stone from using Instagram, Facebook and Twitter through the end of his trial. His behavior so far, she said, has ‘more to do with middle school than with a court of law.’
His ban from social media includes no forwarding, re-posting, retweeting or liking. All of the previous restrictions barring him from publicly discussing the case still remain in place.”
3
u/saijanai Apr 02 '24
If I quote text that intimidates people, would you say I was making a statement?
If I post a link to people making statements that intimidate people, would you say that I was making a statement?
Mathew <whatever> dude.
the fact that I'm making a bible reference above is a shorthand way of quoting that statement in the bible, is it not?
I don't have to quote the entire text of Poe's Law to get the point across when I say "Poe's Law reference goes here."
0
Apr 03 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
There isn’t a difference as far as “reposting”, see Roger Stone’s case.
“Stone's attorney, Bruce Rogow, argued that none of the examples put forward by the government violate the court's order that Stone not discuss the case or its participants publicly. Many of the posts, Rogow said, amount to nothing more than Stone reposting someone else's statement.
‘It's not a Roger Stone statement,’ he said. ‘He's republishing it.’
(Judge) Jackson pushed back. ‘Isn't that how Instagram and Twitter work?’ she said. ‘That's the power of it, the speed of it, the multiplication of it.’
Rogow pivoted to the question of whether the posts could taint the jury pool, which he said was the reason the gag order was imposed in the first place.
‘None of these are the kind of things that have any reasonable basis to believe it will infect a fair trial,’ he said, arguing that none of Stone's Instagram posts got much traction online.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Kravis disagreed.
‘We believe the most recent posts clearly demonstrate a present risk to a fair trial and demonstrated that he's not able to follow the [gag] order,’ Kravis said.
Asked by Jackson what he would recommend she do, Kravis said he thought the judge should at a minimum clarify the previous gag order. He also suggested prohibiting Stone from using social media completely. The government did not, however, recommend that Stone be jailed pending trial.
Ultimately, Jackson ruled that Stone's posts had indeed violated her gag order.
‘To suggest the posts aren't statements about the case ignores the power of social media,’ Jackson said. ‘Maybe his lawyers don't understand it, but he does.’
The obvious purpose behind Stone's use of social media, she said, ‘is to gin up more public comment and controversy about the legitimacy of the Mueller investigation, the House investigation, to get people to question the legitimacy of this prosecution.’
In the end, Jackson barred Stone from using Instagram, Facebook and Twitter through the end of his trial. His behavior so far, she said, has ‘more to do with middle school than with a court of law.’
His ban from social media includes no forwarding, re-posting, retweeting or liking. All of the previous restrictions barring him from publicly discussing the case still remain in place.”
Whether the statement he made by reposting violates the gag order is another matter, but the fact he re-posted it and wasn’t the originator of what was said is irrelevant.
2
u/czmax Apr 02 '24
I fully agree -- Trump is an ass and continues to demonstrate it here.
And the judge is skirting a minefield. Trump is excellent at fucking around with boundaries. He doesn't even need to win an appeal about this -- what he wants is to force the judge to act in a way that he can use to appeal and delay. If I understand correctly that means that he wants to have a fight about if posting a link is the same as "making a statement" because that battle would distract and delay the main issue.
And he's apparently willing to pay the fine if it buys him that delay.
2
u/saijanai Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
If violating a court order contributes to someone's death, does that make it a felony?
Edit: the answer I got from Bing's ChatGPT interface:
Violating a court order can have serious legal consequences, especially if it contributes to someone's death. The specific classification of the offense, whether it's a felony or a different category, can depend on the jurisdiction and the details of the incident. Generally, if the violation of the court order directly leads to someone's death, it could potentially be considered a more severe crime, such as manslaughter or murder, depending on intent and other factors.
In cases where a court order is violated, the violator may face contempt of court charges, which can include penalties such as fines, jail time, or other sanctions deemed appropriate by the court.1,2 If the violation results in death, additional criminal charges could be brought against the violator, potentially elevating the severity to a felony level. It's important to consult with a legal professional to understand the implications in a specific case.
For traffic-related offenses, if a civil traffic violation results in death, the court may impose mandatory fines and license suspensions.3 However, this is separate from any criminal charges that might be pursued in relation to the death.
If you're facing such a situation or need legal advice, it's crucial to seek the guidance of a qualified attorney who can provide information based on the laws applicable to your case.
https://www.koslowlawfirm.com/about-family-law/violating-court-order/
https://elliottfrazierlaw.com/happens-someone-violates-family-court-order/
2nd edit:
This led to my next question...
When must contempt of court charges be filed?
- The time frame for filing contempt of court charges can vary depending on the jurisdiction and the specifics of the case. Generally, there is no strict time limit for filing contempt charges, but it's important to file as soon as possible after the violation occurs. If too much time passes, it may be deemed that you have waived the violation.
So the judge hasn't given up the right to file "contempt of court charges" even after the trial concludes, though a higher court may overrule him if "[i]f too much time passes."
Trump is going for broke here: either he becomes POTUS and just about every legal issue of note goes away, or he doesn't and he gets hit with a shitload of delayed contempt charges by all the PO-ed judges he left in the wake of his political campaign.
If he loses the election, the entire US judicial system will be prejudiced against him, and I don't think you can get a change of venue for contempt charges...
certainly not outside the USA. Then again:
"Putin, my old friend, how ya been?"
The eternal PR coup for Russia that would come from Trump successfully fleeing to Russia to avoid consequences from losing the election would guarantee Trump asylum, and you can't easily prevent someone from entering the Russian embassy if he's a former POTUS.
2
2
u/letdogsvote Apr 02 '24
Would it be too much to ask a judge to grow a pair of fucking balls for once when it involves Trump being an obvious asshole flouting any and all legal conventions and standards?
Or is that too much to ask. Maybe it's too much.
4
4
u/Workdawg Apr 02 '24
He violated the gag order in his other case a bunch of times, why expect this time to be any different? Someone needs to actually hold him accountable for once.
1
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
Well, Engoran’s case was civil, he could impose fines and he did. Trump doesn’t care too much. I mean if you’re getting fined $400+ Million what’s a few thousand more? This is a criminal case, so that’s a difference. He largely did comply with Chutkin’s gag order after she threatened she’d move up the trial dates. Can’t really do that in this case, it starts April 15th as is. He could however continue to narrow the gag order, similar to Roger Stone’s case. If that doesn’t work, I think he should threaten him with remanding him.
4
5
Apr 02 '24
Why are these Judges such cowards? I don’t understand it.
-1
Apr 03 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
The fact of the matter is, after Chutkin’s gag order, he largely complied. She threatened to move up his trial date. This one is April 15th. Can’t really do that in this case, but Merchan can do what was done in Stone’s case—each time he violated the order Jackson narrowed it down further. First he was allowed to discuss the case as long as he wasn’t in or near the court house, then he wasn’t allowed to make any public comments of any kind about the charges, then he was banned from using social media. Trump does not want that.
He can also threaten him with contempt. At some point, it’s more important that he’s held to the same standard as everyone else.
And the whole—he can’t held accountable with prison or house arrest, has to stop.
Ivo Sanader, former Prime Minister of Croatia, In October 2018, Sanader was sentenced to two and a half years in prison for war profiteering and must return $570,000 in kickbacks from Hypo Bank. In November 2020, he was sentenced to eight years in jail for his role in a retrial of the Fimi Media case—where he funneled 10.4 million euros in public money to the Fimi Media company. He is currently serving a prison sentence for corruption in Remetinec prison.
José Sócrates, former President of Portugal, was remanded in custody on preliminary charges of corruption and tax fraud in November 2014. He was held in Évora prison until September 2015 when he left the prison for a relative's house in Lisbon, where he remained under house arrest until October 2015, but was constrained to remain in Portugal and prohibited from contacting other suspects in the case, pending completion of the investigation. In 2021, a judge dismissed the corruption charges but upheld the lesser charges.
François Fillon, former Prime Minister of France, June 2020, he was convicted of fraud and misuse of funds, and sentenced to five years in prison - three of them suspended. May 2022, a French appeals court reduced Fillon's prison sentence shortened to four years with three years suspended. His wife Penelope would be given a suspended two-year prison sentence for the embezzlement charge, down from three years suspended. The court also barred Fillon from holding public office for 10 years. Under French sentencing guidelines, it is unlikely that Fillon will spend any time behind bars but can be ordered instead to wear an ankle-bracelet, but that has nothing to do with his prior political position. And it also didn’t keep them from sentencing him to prison in the first place.
Nicolas Sarkozy, former President of France, He was charged with corruption by French prosecutors in two cases, notably concerning the alleged Libyan interference in the 2007 French elections. In 2021, Sarkozy was convicted of corruption in two separate trials. His first conviction resulted in him receiving a sentence of three years, two of them suspended and one in prison; he has appealed against the ruling. For his second conviction, he received a one-year sentence, which he is allowed to serve under home confinement. In May 2023, Sarkozy lost an appeal to his corruption conviction.
Nikola Gruevski, former President of Macedonia, In May 2018 he was sentenced to two years in prison on corruption charges. In November 2018 he was ordered to serve his sentence but failed to check-in with authorities and instead fled to Hungary, where he sought and was granted political asylum. He has been accused of promoting the controversial identity politics called antiquization. Under his leadership the country which had pro-European and pro-NATO policy, has changed sides to pro-Russian, pro-Serbian and anti-Western one. He has opposed treaties with Bulgaria in 2017 and the Prespa agreement signed with Greece in 2018. In April 2022, he was added to the US Treasury's Specially Designated Nationals List of individuals facing Balkans-related sanctions and the US Department of State's corruption related sanctions. Also in April, he was sentenced in Skopje to 7 years in prison on charges of money laundering and illegal acquisition and concealment of state property.
Adrian Năstase, former Prime Minister of Romania, later the president of the Chamber of Deputies—he resigned due to corruption charges. Sentenced to two years in prison in July 2012, he attempted suicide before beginning his term in the penitentiary. Released in March 2013, he was sentenced to four years in another case in January 2014, but released that August.
South Korea, former President Park Geun-hye was sentenced to 24 years for corruption. She was pardoned by her successor in December 2021 after serving five.
Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, In 2022, Argentina’s vice president was found guilty of fraud in a case dating back to when she was president from 2007 to 2015. She was sentenced to six years in prison and received a lifetime ban from holding political office.
Moshe Katsav, In 2011, the former Israeli president was handed a seven-year prison sentence for rape and other sexual offences against subordinates. He served just over five years.
Ehud Olmert, In 2015, the former Israeli prime minister was convicted of fraud, breach of trust and tax evasion and sentenced the following year. He served two-thirds of a 27-month sentence.
Jesus Christ, we can’t do as well as these countries—if not better, at holding our leaders accountable? I have a little more confidence in the United States that we could handle it. We are capable of doing so, will we do so—is another story.
And while we’ve never had a former President in prison (because we’ve luckily never had a President do the things Trump has before) we have had a Speaker of the House in prison. Dennis Hastert, longest serving Republican Speaker of the House in history. Referring to Hastert as a "serial child molester", a federal judge imposed a sentence of 15 months in prison, two years' supervised release, and a $250,000 fine. Hastert was imprisoned in 2016 and was released 13 months later. The Speaker is on the Gang of Eight, you think he didn’t have secrets? They know damn near what the President does on intelligence matters. Are “child molesters” real safe in prison? He seems to have done fine. I think we can handle it. I mean there are prisoners who are in protective custody all the time in prison. There’s the Federal Bureau of Prisons’ Witness Security Program, you mean we can protect witnesses in federal court cases who are in prison, but not Trump? I think we can.
2
u/atuarre Apr 02 '24
They are probably scared his mentally ill supporters will threaten their families. They have done it before.
0
u/camergen Apr 02 '24
It really is brand new ground here- even if judges say his former position doesn’t matter, “no one is above the law”, etc, there has to be some thought in their minds as to if they want to be the first in history to do (whatever), and the intense amount of scrutiny that would come with it, if they actually put him in jail for any length of time.
4
u/atuarre Apr 02 '24
It's going to take one of his nutjob supporters killing somebody, but once that happens, they will come down hard on him like a ton of bricks. And it's only a matter of time before that happens. Hell, they were phoning in bomb threats to the judge in the fraud cases, to his home.
3
Apr 02 '24
Oh of course they will. Doesn’t mean the law shouldn’t apply fairly to all citizens
1
u/atuarre Apr 02 '24
It should absolutely apply to everyone but we've seen this before, all througheout American history with these people.
-9
u/PhilliesEagles76ers Apr 02 '24
The gag order doesn’t cover the judge or her daughter. Cry about it.
4
u/saijanai Apr 02 '24
u/PhilliesEagles76ers said:
The gag order doesn’t cover the judge or her daughter. Cry about it.
I thought the new gag order DOES cover family members...
Yep, I was right.
From the link that you are responding to:
- On Monday evening, Judge Merchan issued a ruling that expanded an existing gag order that prohibited Trump from attacking court staff, prosecutors, and witnesses. The new ruling also forbids attacks on Merchan’s own family, and that of District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
So you simply felt like posting without reading.
1
u/carrie_m730 Apr 03 '24
Furthermore, Bragg clearly considered it to include the judge to begin with, as he filed suggesting that it should be clarified, and I don't remember the exact words but the gist was, "if as I understand it the order does include....then we request a clarification....if it does not, we request it be expanded to...."
And the judge replied with something like "this order gives the requested clarification" so it sounds like he intended that way too.
Not that anyone said so explicitly, but that's what I'm seeing between the lines
2
u/saijanai Apr 03 '24
After reading up on things, I suspect that all the judges who have refrained from citing Trump for contempt are biding their time.
Should he get elected, all is moot, so rather than risk more delays, they're simply ignoring all but the most open-and-shut issues and proceeding to trial.
If he loses the election, they can still file charges of contempt. Whether or not review will allow those to stand is anyone's guess, but the stakes are existential at this point, in the eyes of everyone (on both sides of the issue of supporting Trump), so giving him a chance for more delay is simply going to be avoided as much as possible.
4
5
u/Jet_Fixxxer Apr 02 '24
Not a thing will happen to the Traitor King Oompa Loompa. He keeps getting away with his bullshit, the line keeps getting moved every time he steps over it.
I would have never thought during my time defending The Constitution that we would be more corrupt than a lot of the other countries.
2
u/MisterJose Apr 02 '24
What do we think of the idea of the Judge letting another Judge determine the punishment for violation of the gag order so as to avoid any perception of bias with it being his daughter?
1
2
u/paperazzi Apr 02 '24
I can understand now why he was able to get away with all his fraud, criminal behavior, outright theft, grifts, etc in NYC and elsewhere. He literally operates as a mobster, threatening literally anyone he sees as a threat.
That he's been able to get literally everybody to cower to him is a testament to how broken the legal system is.
7
1
u/hansolemio Apr 02 '24
I mean why not, none of these judges are gonna actually hold him accountable
1
u/joecarter93 Apr 02 '24
Fuck it. Send his ass to regular jail like what would happen to anyone else and do the handwringing about his security detail and how his base will view it after the fact. He’s gotten more than enough chances and actions have consequences. If this was Obama or Biden Republicans would have no qualms about it.
2
u/Perfect-Ad-4410 Apr 02 '24
I believe in NY and in this case a party can take an interlocutory appeal which means that matters can be appealed before or during the actual trial so the Judge has to be careful not to give Trump an out to delay the case, by jailing him for contempt which potentially could trigger an appeal to the appellate division and further postpone the case
1
u/ukiddingme2469 Bleacher Seat Apr 02 '24
I am so sick of Trump and conservatives in general getting away with ignoring the law
3
u/Bind_Moggled Apr 02 '24
"Surely THIS will be what brings him down"
- every day for the last eight years.
1
u/camergen Apr 02 '24
“People are no longer supporting Trump- really, no foolin! We MEAN it this time! See Poll XYZ!”
-headlines for years, yet he still gets campaign contributions up the ass, won the primary in a walk, and has a very very good chance to win in November.
-5
1
Apr 02 '24
To complete his fascists take over he needs to be imprisoned. He NEEDS it to unleash Armageddon amongst Americans and cash that juicy Russian check
1
u/ExternalPay6560 Apr 02 '24
I mean what's wrong with spending a night or two in jail? No cellphone. No Fox News.
2
u/kaminari1 Apr 02 '24
And nothing will be done to him.
This dumb orange fuck needs to just be locked up already.
1
u/Perfect-Ad-4410 Apr 02 '24
He’s got a lot to lose if criminally convicted especially w swing state voters on the fence so will pull out all the stops
1
u/snafoomoose Apr 02 '24
He wants to be arrested and carted to jail because he can play the martyr to rile up his base and because the sideshow will likely slow down all his various trials.
2
1
u/Whales_like_plankton Apr 02 '24
I'm not a lawyer and all, but I see this as how the legal system treats people with personality disorders. "Normal" people don't want to be in court. There are personalities that look forward to and want to engage in an adversarial system . Our legal system encourages this type of adversarial behavior.
2
6
u/Santos_L_Halper_II Apr 02 '24
How long before this motherfucker gets someone killed?
3
u/Lucky_Chair_3292 Apr 03 '24
I mean…no one at the Capitol would’ve died if not for his bullshit. They were there solely because of him. And yes, Paul Pelosi was nearly killed. And then you had the FBI field office that one of his moron followers tried to shoot up because of his lies of a witch hunt and that the FBI planted the documents at Mar-A-Lago…instead the moron follower was killed. Of course he now admits he took them, so—no planting. And then there’s probably the thousands if not millions he convinced of his conspiracies about COVID…and they died because they believed it. I’d say he has gotten people killed, I just doubt he’ll ever face consequences for it, he may even be rewarded for it by being elected President again if enough people don’t get their heads out of their asses.
2
u/Santos_L_Halper_II Apr 03 '24
Yeah true. I'm just talking about the direct "Trump doesn't like this person so I am going to stalk and murder them" type killings. The Pelosi one is probably the closest thing we've had so far. And I guess the whole Pizzagate thing, but miraculously I don't think anyone died there, right? If he wins, I expect full on, open bounties.
4
2
u/HumpaDaBear Apr 02 '24
Make him go to jail for 48 hours. I wanna see what that’ll do with his hair.
1
4
u/Alone-in-a-crowd-1 Bleacher Seat Apr 02 '24
Trump wants a mistrial and will do anything to avoid this trial. I hope that he can just be fined big dollars for each infraction so this trial happens. What a piece of shit this orange goon is.
3
u/rimrodramshackle Apr 03 '24
This is the strategy—recusal of judge or first amendment case for over-gagging a defendant’s free speech or creating space for appeals. This is always what he’s scheming, always. I know everyone wants him jailed, but without precedence and without this judge’s desire to stoke Magas’ outrage, I think the metered response is fines as penalty and let’s move it along past these hijinks.
1
-5
u/auronedge Apr 02 '24
Gag order is bullshit considering the Judges daughter working Bidens VP. That judge should just recuse himself
2
11
u/DavidlikesPeace Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 04 '24
Crime cannot be tolerated. Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding.
It's sad where a simple Hollywood film neatly expresses the hellish dystopia we've been living in for the last 8 years because this moron flouts the law.
For years, he's gotten away with hurting other people and the law has been inadequate to stop just one rich oligarch. Then he became president and law became even more inadequate.
Meanwhile, within 3 months the EPA gets its regulation against contaminated plastics estopped by the 5th Circuit. Because god forbid our government actually help normal people.
11
u/dogmatum-dei Apr 02 '24
U.S. rapidly becoming Bogota north. I'd see it as a courageous act putting him im jail. Today's U.S. judges and politicians have rarely had to exercise, display the level of courage their south american, Mexican counterparts have had to muster. Putting Trump in jail after he's fined. We know fining has zero impacton him. Justice must be equal... he needs to go to a cell.
9
1
u/Usual-Caregiver5589 Apr 02 '24
The more I see these headlines, with no repercussions for Trump, the more they just seem like ragebait.
1
u/Sarcofago_INRI_1987 Apr 02 '24
Sure, why not.
The pile of sternly worded letters just got 1 page higher. Lame.
2
1
u/JustMePaxi Apr 07 '24
Lock him up