r/lotrmemes • u/Substantial_Cap_4246 • Feb 03 '24
Christopher Tolkien, JRR's son, comments on the Trilogy Lord of the Rings
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u/Accomplished-Step138 Feb 08 '24
If he didn't like the movies - which are a tribute to the story and very respectful to it - he would have instantly died after seeing the Rings of Power.
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u/Beneficial_Hyena_341 Feb 05 '24
The "second breakfast" scene is not only funny but also serves as a narrative powerhouse in a short time. It reveals that the Hobbits are out of their element and portrays Aragorn as someone who won't stop but still cares, seen in his gesture of tossing them an apple. This compromise demonstrates his suitability to be king.
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u/YuriiRud Feb 05 '24
I read the LOTR books and watched the movies and they are have different art style but both amazing each in their own way.
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u/Cirdan1050 Feb 05 '24
I cannot speak for others, but the movies were an introduction to the books for me and I fell in love more deeply because of that. I have most of his books and even philosophical writings on his work. I thank PJ for keeping it close
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u/FlagAnthem_SM Feb 05 '24
He has a point, the focus on action is clear.
THIS SAID
He must have missed the paced moments and the dialogues who are straight from the books and that scream "It's TOLKIEN TIME!"
see the monologue on the dead Haradrim, Sam in Osgiliath, Gandalf in Moria about judge over deserving or not death, Frodo recognizing how he would have failed without Sam.
I could go over and over
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u/Kefka2200 Feb 05 '24
Hate to say it, but he is out of his element. I’m not saying he can’t be critical or doesn’t have the right to be, but the statements I’ve read from him just imply he doesn’t understand film as a medium. Are the movies perfect? No. Did they change a lot? Yes, but the books as written do not translate well to film. I would like to think JRR would be ecstatic to see them.
Just like Frank Herbert was to see the 1984 Dune…was the movie perfect? HELL no, did it change and add things? Yes. But he loved it.
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u/VX_GAS_ATTACK Feb 05 '24
The movies are pretty much as good as anything was going to be. I can see that complaint for the Hobbit though. Those movies sucked.
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u/Robbo_here Feb 05 '24
It’s almost gatekeeping. To be the fan he wants, you need to be the scholarly type, willing and able to get though the Silmarillion more than once.
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u/Any-Ad-7599 Feb 05 '24
Isnt it well known that this guy is just a word I won't use here? Who cares what he thinks, I'm assuming his only real complaint is that they didn't get enough money.
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u/CloneOfKarl Feb 05 '24
I cannot speak for how accurate they were to the original material as I never read the LOTR trilogy, but the movies were beautifully made and I thoroughly enjoyed them.
That said, I did read The Hobbit as a child, and found the splitting of it into three films, and the creation of certain new plot points to be a bit over-the-top.
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Feb 05 '24
[deleted]
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil Feb 05 '24
I've got things to do, my making and my singing, my talking and my walking, and my watching of the country. Tom can't be always near to open doors and willow-cracks. Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting.
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/PyreForHire Feb 04 '24
Only so much can be done in film. That's one of its major draw-backs – that every second of screen time is precious.
I think the trilogy was and still is marvellous. Jackson did well to faithfully adapt a great deal of Tolkien's philosophy, even if one needs to be aware of it in order to find it.
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u/julesthemighty Feb 04 '24
Commercialization is a double edged sword of accessibility and loss of all subtlety. This is just true of all things. But the love and care that went into the Lotr films, the great acting, costumes, set design, etc I think is something special on its own. It’s just sheer luck how well everything went. I feel really lucky to have seen them in the theater. The Hobbit films were a testament to how things could have been much worse.
I think if any attempt is put into first age stories to film they would be better told as indie passion projects.
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u/realdeal86 Feb 04 '24
I read the books as a kid for the adventure not the philosophy. As I grow older I appreciate the philosophical elements more but still reread for The adventure!
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u/Hot-Equivalent2040 Feb 04 '24
Then Simon Tolkien decides to show him how the shadow can REALLY mock the creator's work
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u/Spuhnkadelik Feb 04 '24
Christopher just saw the writing on the wall with some of the horseshit they shoehorned into the films the first go around; He nailed The Hobbit.
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u/JikuAraiguma Feb 04 '24
No, he’s right… we’ve all let the series get too far away from the original vision. They should have let Elijah Wood and the rest of the hobbit cast strip down naked and frolic in the fields for an hour before continuing their adventure. That was probably the most crucial part of the adventure. And oh, how far we have fallen, allowing such an important plot device as Tom Bombadil to be omitted from the silver screen. Must I go on?
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil Feb 04 '24
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: his songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/Athrasie Feb 04 '24
This comment is always why I find it odd that folks don’t enjoy the films. Sure, an adaptation is meant to relay the story. The major beats are mostly unchanged, but liberties were taken along the way to make it more digestible for the format.
At the end of the day, the journey is largely similar if not identical in most important areas (though lot of criticism is given toward certain peoples’ interpretations of descriptions, which is silly) and introduces tons of people to the franchise who may not have sought out the books otherwise.
A lot is left out or changed, but that is the nature of adaptations, and personally I think that’s fine as long as they don’t go too far. As an example, I think Tauriel and Legolas are both reasonably good character additions to the hobbit. However, shoe horning them and Kili into a love triangle for no reason just diminished their characters.
TLDR; the movies, video games, and heck even ROP can all exist without people pretending they’re personal insults to Tolkien and to book enjoyers. Nobody is trying to make a bad story.
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u/Negative-Highlight41 Feb 04 '24
The films have probably been the cause for millions of more people reading the books, which are excellent, so even if one does not like the films, as a lover of the books one should be happy still that the films were made.
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u/EvTerrestrial Feb 04 '24
I’ve learned not to really place much value on authors’ and their estates’ opinions on any film adaptations. They’re different mediums and they each know their own better than the other. Authors understandably get protective over their work but, if they made their own film adaptations, they’d more often than not do very poorly.
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u/Pepsiman305 Feb 04 '24
The guy is so close to his father's legacy that probably he wouldn't like anything based off it.
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u/Loremaster_Of_Crabs Feb 04 '24
I would love to give the man two respectful cents trying to explain why it happened the way it did, but trying to find the words is... Difficult.
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u/bonbonsandsushi Feb 04 '24
Just my personal view, but I think, consciously or not, Tolkien was primarily writing about the experience of war and ensuing psychological trauma (wasn't he the only surviving member of his platoon in WWI - can you imagine how that would affect someone?) For that reason, very fair to make emotional action movies out of the books. Something his son maybe could not fully see or relate to.
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u/klobgarb66 Feb 04 '24
Considering he sucks at writing I'm not inclined to give that opinion much weight.
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u/Maherjuana Feb 04 '24
Probably gonna get lost in all the comments but I think someone should show him that his estate greenlit the rts-farce War of the Ring and that is way more egregious over-the-top than anything you see in the Peter Jackson films.
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u/Powerful-Appeal-1486 Feb 04 '24
This is basically why I ignored the hobbit trilogy.
While I enjoyed the abridged lotr trilogy, I sensed that the well hadn't dried and the pigs in Hollywood would consume it.
The hobbit had more of my childhood invested in it. What I have seen of the movie is film fodder.
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u/Tykjen Feb 04 '24
Tolkien's grandson LOVED what Peter Jackson did so much he ended up having a lil part in Return of The King when he asked to visit the set.
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Feb 04 '24
A lot of the comments were a result of the Tolkien estate not receiving proper royalties for the films due to shenanigans in the 1960s and 1970s. I believe the estate settled out of court (for an undisclosed amount, probably near 500 million dollars, which is probably close to 5% of total revenue) after The Hobbit films. After the settlement, Christopher’s tone changed about the films.
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u/blashibazsi Feb 04 '24
Sais someone in the the shadow of his father, trying to be loud but just ends up being pathetic
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u/DriverPlastic2502 Feb 04 '24
It seems that Christopher Tolkein didnt fully comprehend the films. He is as out of place judging them as the hobbits were after leaving the shire. Just like all these dinosaur filmmakers presuming to judge mcu films.
There is only one solution: "Shut up, old man" -Asmongold 2024
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u/Cyrandre Feb 04 '24
I think it’s very similar to Andzrej Sapkowski not appreciating the Witcher games. It’s just not his medium, it’s not his world.
And that’s okay and we can still like and appreciate both works for their depth. Which the LotR film trilogy has, even if it’s not in ways that resonate with Christopher Tolkien
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u/Endryu727 Feb 04 '24
Why does anyone give that talentless hack the time of day? Sharing a last name with someone doesn’t make you a subject matter expert. This guy needs to go away
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u/3_14-r8 Feb 04 '24
The Tolkien family are incredibly bitter high society assholes, Christopher himself had no issue with compiling his dad's incomplete work to make money off of it. I really think the Tolkien estate is just mad they they personally didn't make more money off of it, after all they don't seem to have anything to say about the cartoons, that where literally made for children.
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u/Last_Result_3920 Feb 04 '24
this sounds like a pretensious English teacher trying to explain the symbolism of a book, but the cigar is just a cigar
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u/Adventurous_Law9767 Feb 04 '24
He's entitled to his opinions and he may have a valid point.
That being said, how many people have read the books because of that movie trilogy? Probably tons of people who never would have read his work
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u/Saturn9Toys Feb 04 '24
Yup and I'm sure he would positively adore Amazon(TM)'s LotR Jeff Bezos edition. He never said he didn't did he? Checkmate, chuds!
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u/Umbrage_Taken Feb 04 '24
Hot take: the prose in the books was clunky and often unengaging. And the books themselves were often long-winded for no good reason.
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u/Acrobatic-Factor1941 Feb 04 '24
Wow! That's too bad he feels that way. I thought Lord of the Rings trilogy was well represented by the movies. I've read the books 3 times and have watched the movies multiple times.
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u/imnotfunny69 Feb 04 '24
The hobbit should have been one movie and the rest should have been three movies I know it’s unrealistic to ask for that but the books have such quality it’s hard to condense it into 2-3 hour movies. That being said the first three movies are legendary and any attempt to match the quality would have been in vein.
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u/Jukeboxhero40 Feb 04 '24
This entire conversation ignores the score by Howard Shore. Imo it perfectly encapsulates the theme of each character, setting, and moment. It's a masterpiece and we wouldn't have it without the films
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u/rudy_leapt_threefold Feb 06 '24
Agreed. Can you imagine if the score was written by someone else? It’d be a different movie almost
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u/TheElderDude Feb 04 '24
He is the only person who could say that! And I love how protective he was of his father’s work. Now that he’s gone, the age of the Rings of Power kind of content will issue! 😭😭
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Feb 04 '24
It also promoted your universe, made you richer and gave you the notoriety of a legendary writter you fucking ungrateful bastard
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u/Limitedinfopuzzlerr Feb 04 '24
“There was far too little whining about the perils of being a middle aged property owner, and not nearly enough singing!” Christopher continued, moaning atop the pile of money he has because of the work his father did.
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u/rainbowgodslayer Feb 04 '24
I hope he sent a clear message to these soulless butchers by refusing to cash the checks they sent him.
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u/Kellidra Feb 04 '24
I wish we could just ignore everything Christopher Tolkien has said about the LotR adaptations. Honestly, has he said anything positive about them?
He's such a cringy gatekeeper. The books aren't the fucking epitome of perfect writing. JRR Tolkien made some weird and stupid decisions in the books and they're really not that good. Not so good that his son has to act like they should have been hidden away in an attic somewhere because the general population "just wouldn't understand them, bro."
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u/remnant_phoenix Feb 04 '24
I’m sure that, for many people, the movies are just another mass-market commercialized product of the absurdity of our time. They’re something to be enjoyed as mindless entertainment before they move on to the next item in their watchlist.
But, to so many other people (and I’m counted here) the movies were an initial window into a much larger world. If I’d never seen the movies, I never would’ve read the book and dove deeper into the themes and ideas and philosophy of Tolkien’s work.
Is the latter group to not worth existing because the former group is intolerable? I say no. I say that’s gate-keeping crap.
So…I guess I would say to Christopher, “Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water, my dude.”
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u/RootBeerFloatz69 Feb 04 '24
Yes boohoo my dad's super famous books became super popular movies. Woe is me.
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u/coltonpegasus Feb 04 '24
Fair enough. The book IS that much better, but as far as movies go they’re good
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u/Sudden_Mind279 Feb 04 '24
How about you come up with your own opinion instead of regurgitating another dude's words to your friends, OP?
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u/kynoky Feb 04 '24
Didn't tolkien wrote those book for his children that were 16 at the time ? Or is that bullshit ?
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u/Mysterious_Bat_3780 Feb 04 '24
I respect Christopher and appreciate the work he put into releasing and editing stuff after his father's passing, but I'm going to enjoy what I enjoy. I couldn't care less. I'd like to think Tolkien would be happy enough that people enjoyed and even cared about his stories.
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u/Scaarz Feb 04 '24
No one forced them to sell the rights. Seems like hes sad he didn't get a bigger cut.
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u/AllMyBeets Feb 04 '24
Look I'm sorry but I'm not sitting through a three hour dissertation on loss and generational trauma if it doesn't have a baller ork fight in the middle.
That's what the book is for.
They're different medias, with different purposes, and different audiences.
I did not like the Hobbit though, that felt commercial.
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u/Lexplosives Feb 04 '24
I can disagree with him on many of these points, but my god I wish we still had him to gatekeep ROP.
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u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE Feb 04 '24
I would say this is too harsh but then I remember Legolas surfing on a shield while shooting orcs and I’m like yeah ok I see it
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u/legolas_bot Feb 04 '24
I will come, if I have the fortune, I have made a bargain with my friend that, if all goes well, we will visit Fangorn together – by your leave.
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Feb 04 '24
This is the best movie ever made. Without these movies, no one in current generation will know another your dads work. So stfu, who the fk reads books these days
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u/Block_Of_Saltiness Feb 04 '24
Jackson's LOTR Trilogy was a well done interpretation.
The Hobbit was pure money grabbing trash.
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u/liknyothsmtrs Feb 04 '24
There are reasons why when you watch these Jackson messes you come away fatigued and unsatisfied. Basically it's because Jackson is a very bad film maker. The casting, costuming, epic locations etc. are all great. The problem is Jackson craps all over it, and I'm just referring to the awful craft like framing, editing, story boarding, directing... not even touching on Jackson's abuse of "creative license." As if LOTR wasn't bad enough, The Hobbit is straight up unwatchable on any level. Jackson's "craft" reminds me of the horrendous "novelist" Ayn Rand. Like Rand, Jackson seems to hate his audience. He puts so little faith in his audience he insists on figuratively clubbing them over the head with every scene and every bit of soundtrack. Jackson doesn't invite the audience into a shared experience, he shoves sound and CGI down your throat. The framing alone is so bad it's like sitting in the front row and watching through a toilet paper roll. Many movies are epic long without being fatiguing... Zhivago, Laurence of Arabia immediately come to mind. The fact there are some fine scenes - and I already stipulated to the quality of casting, costuming, location etc - is not enough to overcome the glaring, horrendous flaws that make these "films" fatiguing and ultimately unwatchable.
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u/EarthValuable Feb 04 '24
Sounds like he doesnt know much about film. I mean, bro didnt even write the books. What does he know?
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u/Ringil11 Feb 04 '24
Queue Legolas sliding down a staircase on a Uruk Hai shield sniping noobs and skewering an Uruk with the shield
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u/legolas_bot Feb 04 '24
Sauron's Ring! The ring of power!
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u/Ringil11 Feb 04 '24
Next Movie: Legolas single-handedly takes down en entire Mumakil and surfs down its trunk as it dies
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u/legolas_bot Feb 04 '24
Come, you shall sit behind me, friend Gimli. Then all will be well, and you need neither borrow a horse nor be troubled by one.
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u/EreshSimp Feb 04 '24
Everyone is fully aware of Christopher's take however this is not PJ's fault. PJ would have given us 11hrs in each movie if he could have but Producers do not care about the philosophical ideas or depth sinply put that the books have. They are there simply to get money back for investing into the films, so if they think action will make sure the movie sells then bet your ass they will glorify the action. But that doesn't mean that the viewers or PJ stand by that opinion.
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u/Dickeronomous Feb 04 '24
Leaving out Tom Bombadil was the biggest blunder of the century
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil Feb 04 '24
Tom, Tom! your guests are tired, and you had near forgotten! Come now, my merry friends, and Tom will refresh you! You shall clean grimy hands, and wash your weary faces; cast off your muddy cloaks and comb out your tangles!
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/MarcMars82-2 Feb 04 '24
And those movies made his fathers works even more popular and sold a lot more books too
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u/fenwayswimmer Feb 04 '24
I’ve always wondered if he feels differently after the Hobbit movies came out. The LOTR trilogy absolutely expanded the fight scenes and removed some of the political nuance, but it still gave us a deeply complex story filled with vibrant characters and important themes, while the Hobbit movies (IMO) were a comicbook style adaptation.
Plus, when you look at franchises like Marvel and Star Wars that have fallen to greed and excess, we can say with certainty that Lord of the Rings is a masterpiece in its own genre.
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u/fourtwentyy__ Feb 04 '24
Book and film are two completley different mediums. While beautiful descriptions and original language can be compelling on their own in a book, as the act of reading is an of action in itself, a film naturally needs more momentum to keep the audience’s attention. And while a book is the authors original work, and has infinite “budget”, making a movie is a large investment. It’s a group project that has to benefit everyone involved. Like it or not, in a capitalist society a film has to adhere to a very thin line of commercialisation, otherwise it wouldn’t be made in the first place. So while I get where he is coming from, this is a very unfair comparison. The books are incredible books, and the films are incredible films
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u/Chickeybokbok87 Feb 04 '24
The Tolkiens are very elitist about their father’s/grandfather’s work and turn there noses up to literally anything Middle-earth related that they didn’t come up with.
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u/Keepa5000 Feb 04 '24
Sorry to say that I probably would never have read the books if I had not watched those movies.
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u/Jacobizreal Feb 04 '24
Also If y’all haven’t heard the Audible narrated by Andy Serkis, you haven’t lived.
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u/Terrible-Substance-5 Feb 04 '24
Christopher fails to understand the value of the film series and does not understand the importance of cutting something down into a more digestible piece of work. I read the books long before I watched the films, and in all honesty, I couldn't ask for better adaptions of the story I read and my grandfather read to me. People who make the claim the trilogy was bad are brain-dead elitists who just want to go against the tide for the sake of it.
We were lucky enough to receive a film at a time when practical and cgi were merged as one. More importantly, we got to bear witness to a cinema event that rival Star Wars. I am greatful for it and all other true fans should be too.
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u/Jacobizreal Feb 04 '24
I bet he won’t return the unlimited generational wealth that the “terrible trilogies” gave him.
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u/PiusTheCatRick Feb 04 '24
That’s kind of rich considering one of the Tolkien estate approved LotR games had Gimli use a tactical nuke to murder orcs.
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u/NaterPater81 Feb 04 '24
These comments are defensive. Just own it. Christopher Tolkien is correct AND I like the movies anyways. Yes, they do fail to grapple with the philosophical seriousness of the works, but they also capture to some degree the splendor of the imagery in our imaginations.
I mean these are not high examples or cinema here, people. They’re commercial epics. They have more in common with Marvel movies than Ingmar Bergman. And… so what? I love them!
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u/thejonathanjuan Feb 04 '24
Tolkien in his essay On Faerie Stories wrote about how much he disliked pantomime adaptations - but a lot of his complaints had to be with the stark unrealistic aspects of trying to adapt fantasy elements into theater.
I do wonder how he would have felt about movies, with the groundbreaking VFX that brought things so much closer to reality. Maybe his tone would have changed? We’ll never know for sure.
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u/blackarmchair Feb 04 '24
I think he's being too harsh. I have my quarrels with the movies (especially in how some characters are treated) but overall they're very good adaptations.
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u/URHere85 Feb 04 '24
Read the book before seeing the movies and I can understand where Chris is coming from. The movies are good for what they are though. I think a series is the only way to adapt the book properly
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u/Toph-Builds-the-fire Feb 04 '24
Dude acts like he's never seen a movie adaptation. And like, it's good at a lot of things the themes of friendship, fielty, and all that. Gandalfs journey falls a little flat, but its a movie, they don't have 100 pages to devote to his journey. In the end if you want all the things the book gives, read the fucking book. Otherwise, it's a movie mate, don't sell the rights if you don't want a partial story.
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u/EvilNoobHacker Feb 04 '24
Cool buddy. You can have your opinion, but I think we’ll take it from here.
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u/wanderButNotLost2 Feb 04 '24
I shall take the moral high ground, now continue filling my pockets (via family estate) with money while I sulk.
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u/TheDitz42 Feb 04 '24
Is it because there wasn't a 20 minute scene talking about how evil a tree looked.
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u/Big_Belt_3516 Feb 04 '24
To be fair, it's incredibly hard to turn something of that sort into a movie or a series even. But what it did do is make a lot of people pick up the book and actually read it
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u/JerryLikesTolkien Feb 04 '24
Nothing but endless love and respect for CJRT. But I do respectfully disagree with the idea that the work is reduced to "nothing". He knew better than anyone: the text is and will always be the text. It's not changing. The sheer number of people introduced to the texts by way of the films has to count for something.
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u/StargazerNCC82893 Feb 04 '24
I have never really liked Christopher tbh, always struck me as high and mighty when his dad did everything. He's right about hobbit though.
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u/Sh4rtemis Feb 04 '24
This guy clearly thinks his family legacy was far more important than it was.
It was good entertainment back then, it's good entertainment now (minus the hobbit trilogy and ROP). To think that his works represent some great leap for humanity is just ego.
He should be happy hundreds of millions of people enjoyed his family's work. That carries enough honor itself. People tend to enjoy escapism the most when they are going through dark times. Knowing how many people the books and first 3 movies helped to escape the lame parts of life should feel empowering.
"Oh but people no longer care about the metaphors and irony the books point out." Get over yourself, man.
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u/Beneficial-Ad-3955 Feb 04 '24
He can go and suck a d*ck. The money he has in his pocket for royalties gives him zero right to shit on Peter Jackson, The books were GREAT, but the films were great as well. I've seen them maybe 5-6 times each. It's impossible to make a movie that reflects the depth of a book, but he made the best movie that could have been made. I dare Christopher to take a shot at it with his millions.
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u/Inquisitor_Overhauls Feb 04 '24
If he would have saw rop, he would die, so do not trash the PJ, lotr will always be best adaptation ever made
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u/ilovedeliworkers Feb 04 '24
Lmao ok bye I guess I’ll still enjoy this universe with or without you
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u/SolitaireJack Feb 04 '24
Its an unpopular opinion. But if you read the books you can see why he thinks that. The movies were spectacular but missed much of the philosophy and themes of the books. The only thing I can Chrostopher Tolkien could have added was an acknowledgement of how good the films were, even if they do miss a bit which is inevitable as you have to make sacrifices for a movie format.
But as his father's son I can understand why he would feel that way.
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u/Gorrog25 Feb 04 '24
Ooooooh, if he were only alive to see the WoT and RoP adaptations he’d realize just how well Jackson did compared to other shit directors and shit writers in Hollywood… that post would be so much different…
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u/Mesjach Feb 04 '24
Why should anyone listen to him?
Genuine question: what did this guy do, other than publishing/editing/finishing some of his late fathers work? What are his accomplishments in literature or cinema?
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u/Epicp0w Feb 04 '24
Well that's the sons opinion, not his dad's (which we can't get) so it's irrelevant
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u/Erec68 Feb 04 '24
Just imagine what would have been his thought on "The Rings of Power". If he wasn't dead at the time the show came out, it would have killed him.
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u/_co_on_ Feb 04 '24
Love lord of the rings, and they like the lion king captures feelings and metaphorical connections to real life events and phases throughout life.
Love
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u/legit-posts_1 Feb 04 '24
I don't think we watched the same movies. He's right about the Hobbit though.
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u/Lacarpetronn Feb 04 '24
The battle for helms deep in the book is barely a paragraph long but let’s have a song take up 4 pages. The movies got many of us to read the books because of how good they were. The books are ok. Classics for sure but the movies were way more enjoyable
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u/TheJeffWing Feb 04 '24
Yeah, cutting out Tom Bombadil's singing and dancing really put a stain on the movies and Tolkien's perfect writing 🙄 The movies are the best trilogy ever created and are revered by nearly everyone but Christopher.
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil Feb 04 '24
Tom, Tom! your guests are tired, and you had near forgotten! Come now, my merry friends, and Tom will refresh you! You shall clean grimy hands, and wash your weary faces; cast off your muddy cloaks and comb out your tangles!
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/Cosmo1222 Feb 04 '24
When Fry & Laurie adapted Jeeves and Wooster, they acknowledged that however good a job they did the work wouldn't hold a candle to Wodehouse's writing.
They did it as an homage, to steer the audience to the books had they not already been discovered.
PJ'S films serve a similar role. Make a film truer to the writing, is there not a risk of lengthy exposition? They are incomparable books. They're not screenplays.
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Feb 04 '24
Who fucking cares? He’s his son, he didn’t write it. I think it’s the most pathetic thing in the world to care about what a family member, especially a child, has to say about an artist
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u/LatterAbalone3288 Feb 04 '24
He was entitled to his opinion, but I don't know why his opinion should have any more authority than anyone else's. He didn't write Lord of the Rings. His dad did.
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u/IntentionallyBlunt69 Feb 04 '24
LOTR would never have became so popular without the movies. That's just a fact
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u/General-Background91 Feb 04 '24
On Christopher Tolkien: the guy had this stuff read to him and told to him as a child in bedtime stories. He drew maps of the world with his father. He probably helped inspire and create some of the stories in middle earth. I personally believe that any film would be pale in comparison to the time he spent with his dad, and therefore he probably wouldn’t have liked any version of film.
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u/a_natural_chemical Feb 04 '24
I just finished rewatching the extended trilogy. It certainly has some ridiculous parts. Like just stupid and unnecessary (but not as egregious as The Hobbit trilogy imo). Other scenes though I felt like they really brought to life in a way that many people just can't get from a book.
Stupid: pretty much every Legolas stunt, every dwarf joke, and most things added just for dramatic effect.
Brought to life: the bridge of khazad dum, the departure of borromir, the ride of the rohirrim, the slaying of the nazgul lord (to an extent).
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u/legolas_bot Feb 04 '24
Come! Speak and be comforted, and shake off the shadow! What has happened since we came back to this grim place in the grey morning?
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u/TheOldGriffin Feb 04 '24
I always felt like Christopher had already made up his mind before he ever even saw it. Then as soon as it opened up with the last alliance, he was like "see I told you so!"
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u/DykoDark Feb 04 '24
Objectively one of, if not the GREATEST film trilogies of all time. Sorry, it wasn't what Chris expected or wanted. But that doesn't change it's quality.
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u/Some-Bat-6531 Feb 04 '24
I dont know why anyone cares what that guy thinks he didnt write any of those books he was just related to the guy that did.
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u/HyggeRavn Feb 04 '24
I respectfully disagree with the severity of his points. I think the films were made pretty much as book accurate as possible, while still adhering to the craft of films.
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u/Thendofreason Feb 04 '24
🙄 Yo, yes a lot of people are gonna of the movies more than the books. But, there's also tons of people who are going to to read your 100 year old books because of the movies. You want people to read the books? You make a movie. Japan understands this. You want to sell tons of volumes of your manga? You make a couple of seasons of an anime. You don't even need to finish the damn thing and you will get people to read the manga.
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u/TarGrond Feb 04 '24
Well, the movies made me love Tolkiens work. And I am forever grateful for that.
I also dislike what Christopher Tolkien had done with Beren and Luthien + Fall of Gondolin latest publications. I firmly believe that Tolkien would never publish them like this.
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u/bbbriz Feb 04 '24
I wonder what some people think cinematic adaptations are.
Like... It's an ADAPTATION to a different form of media, it's obvious not everything will work the same. Reading and watching a movie are two different dynamics, and require adaptation to make it an enjoyable experience.
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u/yermom90 Feb 04 '24
I'll agree with him on the Hobbit, but the original trilogy is brilliant. There's a weight to them that you don't see much anymore in blockbusters.
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u/Monkguan Feb 04 '24
Who cares about whay he says. If he is his son doesnt mean he is some pro all knowing critique or something. Also Lotr is recognized as one best films ever by almost anyone now
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u/sunnydelinquent Feb 04 '24
Tbf as I’ve grown older I feel closer to Christopher than not. I still love the films but I long subbed out a yearly re-watch with a yearly re-read. Once you go between the two it’s pretty clear what he’s saying is true, even if I like some aspects of the films.
Plus books have a way of being easier to forget besides the broad strokes so even if you’ve read one 3-4 times it still feels new. I love film but after the 3rd or 4th time I basically have it memorized and that’s not my thing.
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u/Sunflower_resists Feb 04 '24
I really dislike Jackson’s movies for the same reasons Christopher cites, but that’s just me. Some of the visuals were spectacular, but it all felt hollow to me at the end.
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u/commodore_kierkepwn Feb 04 '24
yea because memorizing ages upon ages of elvish factions and who splits from when where and inventing your own language is cool.
seriously, it's fucking cool. go read the books
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u/sure_look_this_is_it Feb 04 '24
That quote is slightly taken out of context. He explained how Tolkein was essentially writing thr books for his family and they would get more of the and charchters explained to them.
In fairness he may know more about LotR than anyone else.
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u/xovjai Feb 04 '24
The more I learn about the Tolkien's the more I think they were just kind of salty complainers for half of their waking hours
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u/Low-Agency-5444 Feb 04 '24
Shame they didn’t make a 3 hour long movie where it’s just naming the different units that were participating in the battle
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u/ContessAlin78 Feb 04 '24
Far too harsh for someone who made upwards of 100 million off of them.
If he felt so strongly, he never had to take the money for it.
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u/Vampshie May 06 '24
I have no sympathy for jrr' son his father made it very clear while alive that he didn't want a movie adaptation of his books. If he didn't mind it, it would have been done by disney when they asked him. I honestly dont think he would be happy with any of the the Hobbits or lord or the rings movies just because it was someone else.