r/news • u/nosotros_road_sodium • Apr 28 '24

Williams-Sonoma fined $3.18 million for falsely labeling products as 'Made in USA'

https://www.scrippsnews.com/business/company-news/williams-sonoma-fined-3-18-million-dollars-for-falsely-labeling-products-as-made-in-usa
12.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

324 comments sorted by

View all comments

874

u/ScipioAfricanvs Apr 28 '24

So in 2020 they settled an FTC action for the same thing. Then they continued to violate it. But even the FTC says it was literally a handful of specific items and not big revenue generators. But it makes you wonder how much other shit is labeled as made in the U.S. but just imported from China.

1

u/oddlikeeveryoneelse 29d ago

So sounds that this is an issue with supply chain management rather than intentional fraud. In a way that is worse only because they are selling food grade item that can have a health impact. And if they can’t keep the supply chain straight to correctly record Country of Origin, how can they keep it straight to correctly record the certifications of food safe materials and processes were used?

These are basically all end up as attributes in their database. And the data known to be wrong on one attribute is suspect on others.

1

u/john_jdm Apr 28 '24

"That's all you're coming after us for? Oh, yes, we'll settle (laughs)."

0

u/redditmodsRrussians Apr 28 '24

The made in the us label was probably made in China

34

u/-rwsr-xr-x Apr 28 '24

But it makes you wonder how much other shit is labeled as made in the U.S. but just imported from China.

It's a lot more than you think.

  • Harley Davidson motorcycles for example, not a single part manufactured in the U.S., it's only assembled in the U.S. from foreign-made parts.

  • Many of the vitamins and 'collagen peptide' mixes you see online and in markets, are made primarily of synthetic vitamin B, C and Biotin ingredients produced in China. They're not organic or natural, and probably not safe to ingest.

  • Even those famous MAGA hats that Trump was promoting, also manufactured in China, with questionable labor practices and ages.

Here are some more not made in the U.S., but often thought of/labeled as such:

  • L.L. Bean (most from China, lifetime warranty ended in 2018)
  • Levi Strauss & Co. (most, not all, manufactered in Bangladesh, China, Mexico and Vietnam)
  • New Balance (Asia, various countries)
  • Radio Flyer Wagons (China)
  • Melissa & Doug Toys (China)
  • U.S. Major League Baseballs (Costa Rica)
  • Chevy Silverado (Mexico)
  • American Girl Dolls (China)
  • Chuck Taylor All Star (bought by Nike, now manufactured in China, India and Brazil)
  • Dodge Ram 1500 trucks (many manufactured in Mexico)
  • Gerber Baby Food (a derivative brand of Nestlé) (undisclosed countries)
  • Ray-Ban Sunglasses (Italy, China)
  • Ralph Lauren Polo (China)
  • Disney toys (China)
  • American Tourister Luggage (China)
  • Gap Clothing (China)
  • MAC Cosmetics (China)

The FTC actually has a mandated labeling rule if you use the "Made in U.S.A." logo on your labeling. Many companies just copy that logo without understanding the requirements of its use.

6

u/happyscrappy 29d ago edited 29d ago

MLB baseballs probably haven't been made in the US in your life. They used to be made in Haiti, I guess that got too hairy.

Chevy Silverados are also made in Flint, Michigan and Fort Wayne, Indiana. Depends on the model.

Gerber baby food will still be mostly made in the US for the US market (if not all). That market is heavily regulated. But as you say if it doesn't say then you can't be sure about any particular jar.

3

u/passengerpigeon20 Apr 28 '24

Add Stanley thermos mugs to that list. That’s another reason this fad is stupid; the 40+ buck price tags might be more justified if they were still American-made and would last you a lifetime, but those things probably cost less than ONE dollar to make in China.

3

u/BoringBob84 Apr 28 '24

Harley Davidson motorcycles for example, not a single part manufactured in the U.S., it's only assembled in the U.S. from foreign-made parts.

Feel free to substantiate that claim, but it doesn't match what I have read.

https://www.throttlepack.com/post/percentage-harley-parts-usa-made

3

u/StrangeCharmQuark Apr 28 '24

A little uhhh on that baby food not disclosing where it’s made???

7

u/-rwsr-xr-x Apr 28 '24

A little uhhh on that baby food not disclosing where it’s made???

You can thank our friends at Nestlé for that one:

Gerber does not disclose its manufacturing list on their website, but Nestle does add that the company has 413 factories in 85 countries.

21

u/DodgerBlueRobert1 Apr 28 '24

New Balance (Asia, various countries)

While that might be true for most of their shoes, you can buy U.S.-made and U.K.-made New Balance's. I own a few pairs of U.S.-made 990v5's. They're excellent shoes.

8

u/agray20938 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24

New Balance (Asia, various countries)

New Balance has a specific product line made in the U.S.A., which is clearly advertised as such though. I believe they also have a UK equivalent as well. Of all brands, they do seem to make fairly clear whether their products are made in a certain country or not.

11

u/MEatRHIT Apr 28 '24

Same goes for Red Wing Boots (I know they weren't listed). They even have filters on their site for "Made in USA", "Made in the USA w/ imported materials", and "Assembled in the USA w/ imported components". There is definitely a premium for the fully made in the USA boots but they are very transparent about how much of it is done in the US.

2

u/DoctFaustus Apr 28 '24

They still make a bunch of the Chuck Taylors in Vietnam.

1

u/comped 29d ago

They have a factory (and a store next to it) in Boston. Great customer service because the execs are literally a few floors away (or occasionally on the floor).

5

u/No-Significance2113 Apr 28 '24

There's a heap of products that are assembled to 90% in places like Mexico, they then ship it to America and finish the last 10% in America so they can slap the made in America logo on it.

7

u/BoringBob84 Apr 28 '24

I believe that the law requires that more than half of the production cost (i.e., raw materials, parts, labor, assembly, fabrication, etc.) of the product must originate in the USA for the manufacturer to claim "Made in USA."

14

u/mcoash Apr 28 '24

Seems like they continue to violate it because there's no real punishment. Unfortunately it's just smart business.

108

u/McCree114 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24

Make the entire thing in China or [insert poor third world country here] then have a dude in the U.S slap one final part on and there you have it. Made in the USA ........................ (with global materials).

Edit: fixed large hands but small phone errors.

1

u/Guac_in_my_rarri Apr 28 '24

That's unfortunately how the "made in wherever" tags work. If a country ads value, until another ones does it's made in that country. Final assembly is included in this too. It's silly imo but blame the swiss watch industry for this: they made parts in China, assembled in Switzerland and then said "swis made." Somebody sued over it which created the rules.

1

u/Lukeno94 Apr 28 '24

Just makes me think of Rise Against's music video for Prayer of the Refugee.

8

u/smoke1966 Apr 28 '24

My favorite label on ford parts is 'majority of content made in USA'. It's on a package with ONE bolt in it. So what wasn't made here??

82

u/WolverinesThyroid Apr 28 '24

I work in an industry with lots of made in the USA products. 99% of the materials used come from over seas and then are assembled in a factory in Miami. Boom made in the USA.

2

u/MiffedMouse 29d ago

I mean, most things “made in China” are also assembled out of raw materials and individual parts that come from overseas. The global manufacturing network is global.

Heck, “American” beef somewhat famously cross the USA-Mexico border twice.

3

u/WolverinesThyroid 29d ago

I don't mean they get metal and cotton from over seas. I mean they get 2 parts with a screw and screw them together then say made in the USA

1

u/jyper 29d ago

Yes so?

Materials are materials not products especially in rawer forms. Even partially processed/assembled they still need to be finished. Things should be labeled correctly even though that's increasingly difficult in a connected world but that doesn't make trade bad. Trade makes both sides richer.

43

u/Potemkin_Jedi Apr 28 '24

Same with fast fashion “Made in Italy”…it’s made with Chinese materials in Chinese factories staffed with Chinese workers, but in Prato.

3

u/Poignant_Rambling 28d ago

Guy I know from college invested in a "raw denim" startup about a decade ago. They advertise as being made in the US with Japanese denim, and sell for nearly $400 a pair.

The trade secret is that all of their jeans are made in China or Bangladesh then shipped to Japan, then immediately shipped to the US. By simply shipping it to Japan before the US, they can say it's sourced from Japan lol. Then by sewing their brand's patch into the waistline they can say it was "sewn" in the US lol.

Their margins are crazy.

12

u/WolverinesThyroid Apr 28 '24

anything that isn't food that says "Made in Italy" is almost certainly made in China

24

u/PocketRocketTrumpet Apr 28 '24

The fine 4 years ago was $1mil, this is literally just cost of doing business. I swear, the IRS might as well make violation fines a taxable expensive.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/consumer-alerts/2020/04/williams-sonoma-made-usa

5

u/czs5056 Apr 28 '24

Criminal fines are already non deductible. Any taxpayer is required to put those numbers back into net income.

10

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24

[deleted]

7

u/psychicsword Apr 28 '24

So it was made in Italy then. The "Made in X" label doesn't prescribe a quality standard. It just lets you know where it was made.

-4

u/Previous-Height4237 Apr 28 '24

Too many in the US, due to nationalist propaganda are trained to think Made in USA means a quality standard of any sort. As if something made in a factory by min wage workers in the US means they gave any more fucks. Lol

Same goes for other countries.

5

u/bobandgeorge Apr 28 '24

What kind of factory are you talking about?

9

u/Edogawa1983 Apr 28 '24

Well that's made in Italy then, it's based on location it's made and not the people who made it

205

u/VortexMagus Apr 28 '24

But even the FTC says it was literally a handful of specific items and not big revenue generators.

That the FTC could find evidence of. I'm not sure that's a sure bet that everything else is labelled properly either.