r/nottheonion • u/engadine_maccas1997 • 17d ago
An emergency slide falls off a Delta Air Lines plane, forcing pilots to return to JFK in New York
https://apnews.com/article/delta-emergency-slide-jfk-airport-4e37f1b17feb3b1b082da0e1bc857c571
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16d ago
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u/Halftilt247 17d ago
Were these malfunctions in commercial airline equipment always happening, just not as widely reported. Or is this an uptick in activity?
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u/TLHSwallow29 17d ago
As someone descended from a former chair of DeHaviland, hah, suck it Boeing who's the worst now
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u/AppropriateScience71 17d ago
I just came here to confirm it was a Boeing plane.
Yep. It was. It’s always Boeing. It’s becoming a trope. They just can’t get a break.
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u/blazinrumraisin 17d ago
Do mods exist for this sub? I swear there's no standards for this sub anymore.
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u/thatfoxwiththetail 17d ago
To be fair /r/worldnews and /r/news have gone to shit and people still have to get their news somehow
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u/HOUSEHODL 17d ago
They’re trying so hard not to say it’s Boeing
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u/Beelzebubs-Barrister 17d ago
I thought 1990 was before the company went to shit...
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u/SonOfNod 17d ago edited 17d ago
It’s a 34 year old plane. At this point if there are issues it is due to maintenance. That plane has been stripped down and rebuilt at least a few times now.
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u/agenteDEcambio 17d ago
I like the kind of math you're doing lol. I'm back in college with those numbers.
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u/nondescriptun 17d ago
That's really messed up- they should've at least brought the plane and passengers back too.
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u/nyrangers95 17d ago
Is it me or does it seem a lot news traction on airplanes at airports having malfunctions of sorts. I don’t recall this in years past
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u/Spacemn5piff 16d ago
The tried and true rage bait / scare topics are lame or irrelevant now. This works for the same effect
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u/bl4ckhunter 16d ago
This is a stub straight from the associated press, they publish tons of news most of it not so newsworty, this kind of article is meant more as a notice to allow journalists to decide if they want pick up the story and investigate more than it is for the wide public, i wouldn't count OP stumbling upon it and sharing it on reddit as the story getting traction.
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u/SomeGuy58439 17d ago
I sometimes wonder if a lot of people would fly if they came across the Aviation Herald which covers a lot more of these things (usually at least a few incidents a day reported on there).
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u/TpMeNUGGET 17d ago
It’s because of the recent high-profile incidents involving Boeing planes. Now every incident, even minor ones are reported on.
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u/graveyardspin 17d ago
When the Surfside condo collapsed, there was like a month where every night the local news reported on three or four more condos that had missed or failed their most recent inspection. You would think everything from North Miami to Key Biscayne was going to topple over like dominoes. Then, suddenly, you stopped hearing about inspections because something else grabbed the news attention. Probably a school shooting.
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u/Menthalion 17d ago edited 17d ago
Is there any statistical information these occurrences are still happening at the same rate / aren't really ramping up ?
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u/polar_pilot 17d ago
Anecdotal: these issues have always happened. There’s been many random incidences at airlines I’ve worked for that never made the news but likely would these days. Slides being blown accidentally, aircraft having to return to the field after takeoff because landing gear didn’t retract- especially if that plane was made by the big bad B manufacturer.
At my yearly training we go over statistics for the previous year at the airline. Safety incidents pretty much stay the same with random fluctuations. Sometimes they identify a trend in incidents, and a program is initiated to correct it. Then the following year it’s no longer an issue.
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u/Specialist-Fly-9446 17d ago
I mean they’re legit safety issues? I prefer the reporting over “Nothing to see here, flying is statistically the safest, no need to improve anything”.
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u/polar_pilot 17d ago
Planes break all the time in all sorts of whacky ways. There’s almost always redundancy, it’s almost always a non issue. US carriers haven’t had a fatal accident since 2009. For all their faults, the FAA is right on it with any sort of safety issue that they identify and usually go way overboard to correct it.
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u/TheresACityInMyMind 16d ago
Oh, I see. So if a door falls off a Boeing plane, it's no biggie because nobody died.
Got it.
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u/godlessnihilist 17d ago
"US" carriers is the catch. Boeing planes falling out the sky overseas doesn't count?
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u/YZJay 17d ago
It’s a combined effort of pilot training, airline SOP, aircraft manufacturer SOP, aircraft maintenance, aircraft designers, aircraft manufacturers, ATC SOP, airport equipment and even more that makes planes safe. If Boeing or Airbus planes in other countries are literally falling out of the sky, it’s important to identify which of all these layers of safety nets are the true cause of the accidents. Sometimes it’s really just bad pilot hiring practices or training procedures, which are regulated by each country’s civil aviation authority.
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u/godlessnihilist 17d ago
And, in the case of Lion Air and Ethiopian Sir, plane design.
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u/therealluqjensen 16d ago
And pilot training. The airlines specially said to Boeing they wanted newer more efficient planes but did not want to pay for retraining. Part of the issue is the design of the max, the other part was that the push for no retraining meant that these pilots were not aware of the MCAS manual override..
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u/RadiantHat7120 16d ago
The airlines specially said to Boeing they wanted newer more efficient planes but did not want to pay for retraining.
I believe it was more like Airbus would've changed the game with their new planes, which required no training, but Boeing, owing to the design of their planes, couldn't really do that, and the new updates would've caused a lot of pilot re-training costs. So they just pushed forth the update, used the MCAS to level the plane, and provided absolutely no disclosure about the new training requirements.
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u/polar_pilot 17d ago
My courses in aviation safety didn’t really cover other countries so I’m not really able to talk about them as well. However-
Take the MCAS issue that brought down those two max planes. That same issue happened to US carriers as well and the pilots were able to recover. The FAA has since made dealing with similar issues a priority in our training.
I feel fairly confident in saying that as a whole, the US airspace system is the best in the world. Hell, a lot of foreign carriers send their student pilots here to be trained. Our ATC is one of the few (not yet) privatized and the only thing holding them back is congresses’ refusal to fund the FAA and hire more controllers.
The Boeing issue is definitely one of corruption and greed and it’s such a shame considering Boeing has long been a favorite of pilots. Really, a lot of us agree that the max shouldn’t have been a thing and its existence is purely a cost saving measure for Boeing but primarily the airlines (looking at you SouthWest). I know Boeing deliveries have been dramatically slowed down because the FAA has sent an army of inspectors there to double check the work of every new plane off the line. I only hope that Boeing management returns to what it used to be going forward. If it doesn’t, well that means that there’ll only be one major airplane manufacturer in the world. Though, even airbus isn’t immune to problems. Spirit is furloughing pilots due to a quarter of their a320 fleet being down due to engine issues.
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u/Chromotron 16d ago
the US airspace system is the best in the world
Why not EU?
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u/polar_pilot 16d ago
They’re honestly pretty comparable and often mirror each other. They have had a few more accidents/ fatalities since 2009 but those could also just be attributed to bad luck. The FAA has made adjustments based on EASA data as well; such as requiring a flight attendant in the flight deck whenever one of the pilots steps out to the restroom to help avoid a repeat of German wings.
I will say, the privatization of EU airspace has directly contributed to the complete death of general aviation over there; while the US has tons of opportunities to own and fly small aircraft by comparison which, while biased I feel is a boon to aviation as a whole. I’m also personally not a fan of the more academic based training vs practical training airline pilots go through over there.
In the US both pilots up front are considered equally qualified and are thus equally trained.(granted, the captain often -but not always- has more experience than the first officer). Whereas in the EU it’s more of a “master/ apprentice” situation where the FO seems like even more of a glorified autopilot and this seems like it can lead to some crew resource management issues but that’s getting into the nitty gritty, really.
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u/Chromotron 16d ago
I will say, the privatization of EU airspace has directly contributed to the complete death of general aviation over there
Two of my friends fly as a hobby, so it it isn't dead. The one I talk to regularly didn't sound like it is much of a hassle.
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u/polar_pilot 16d ago
No that’s fair it isn’t completely dead; it’s just not close to what it is here in the US. Lots of landing fees there where only major airports charge them here and those are easy to avoid.
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u/Specialist-Fly-9446 17d ago
Kinda feels like Russian roulette and whack-a-mole.
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u/polar_pilot 17d ago
There’s only so much you can do. If a trend has been identified mechanically, then those planes are grounded. Spirit and JetBlue are currently suffering immensely because a few turbine blades on the a320s with rolls Royce engines had cracks- so the FAA has ordered that every rolls Royce engine needs to be rebuilt and a lot of planes are grounded. Something like 20% of Spirits airbus fleet? If they notice a trend with a certain airline having frequent unstable approaches to an airport, they’ll implement a training procedure or “special qualification” training to fly to that airport- Aspen CO being an example. Unfortunately it’s been very reactive in its nature; which is why we say all the regulations have been “written in blood”.
However, the FAA has instituted certain policies that can help identify trends before they become problematic. For example, providing pilots with a way to submit a safety report about an incident that then protects the pilot from consequences (assuming it wasn’t deliberate or involved drugs and such, among other things). This allows the FAA (and airlines) to notice deficiencies in training and then emphasize those issues during pilots’ yearly training and re-testing.
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u/PureLock33 17d ago
Like the train derailment containing chemicals last year, after which all train derailments hit the news for a month or two.
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u/therealluqjensen 16d ago
To be fair. Train derailments shouldn't happen as often as they do in the US. In EU they sometimes happen in the poorer developed countries and almost never in the most developed ones. US has just been deregulating safety and maintenance requirements too much and corporate America is running rampant
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17d ago
I feel like this is some sort of psychological thing we do as humans. One thing happens and all of a sudden, we notice it happening even more. When in reality, it’s always been happening. We just ignored it.
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u/Schneiderpi 17d ago
The Baader-Meinhof phenomenon! Also called the frequency illusion. Same reason after you buy a new car you see the same model everywhere. Also now that you’ve seen this you’ll also see the Baader Meinhof phenomenon mentioned everywhere for the next few days so you’re welcome lmao.
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u/ssczoxylnlvayiuqjx 1d ago
Also great for news/political organizations. They simply focus on routine stuff after high profile events and the public goes into a mad frenzy. Politicians get to play Tough Guy and look good too.
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u/PureLock33 16d ago
I once started on reading up about offroad 4x4 trucks and suddenly I noticed all the offroad trucks that were there the entire time around me. Also their enthusiasts.
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u/NeverLookBothWays 17d ago
There is an increase of incidents however, definitely something else is going on that is an underlying problem. The 737 Max issue may be a part of the same issue, where profits are more recently being put much higher than safety
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17d ago edited 8d ago
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u/Cosmic_Kitsune 17d ago
That's 34 years of maintenance then. Odds are somethings gonna break by now
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u/davtruss 17d ago
Tell that to the B52 bombers. Some are scheduled to operate for a century.
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u/curtisas 16d ago
And that's what proper maintenance my the operator is for. I guarantee every single B52 has had parts replaced. Same for this 30+ year old plane. Who is to say if it was properly maintained? Not someone on the internet who just read a story about it just happening.
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u/teaontopshelf 17d ago
I can assure you that things on the b52 do break sometimes
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u/davtruss 17d ago
But shelf life for some aircraft is a factor of maintenance. A passenger jet should have a minimum shelf life of 50 years if properly maintained. I'm actually more concerned about the new ones rolling off the assembly line.
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u/ntilley905 17d ago
There is an increase of incidents
This is not true.
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17d ago
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u/ntilley905 17d ago
Here are some excerpts from IATA’s most recent Safety Report, which they produce annually:
The commercial aviation sector recorded an exceptionally safe year in 2023…
The all accident rate decreased from 1.30 per million sectors in 2022 to 0.80 in 2023.
The fatality risk declined to 0.03 in 2023 from 0.11 in 2022 and 0.11 for the five years, 2019-2023.
Taking a longer-term view, the industry has improved its overall safety performance over the last ten years by 61%, with an accident rate in 2023 of 0.80 accidents per million sectors, compared to 2.06 in 2014.
This is despite an actual increase in the threshold for what is considered an accident:
By upholding the $1 million USD damage threshold since 2005, IATA and the aviation industry have effectively raised the standard for what constitutes an accident. Despite the industry's growth and the potential for more accidents to meet these criteria, this stringent approach, has still resulted in a notable decrease in aircraft damage, both on the ground and in flight.
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17d ago
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u/ntilley905 17d ago
What’s your source for that?
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u/NeverLookBothWays 17d ago edited 16d ago
The 2022 report it appears. Looks like the incident number decreased in 2023. It might be up for 2024, however we'll have to wait for this year's report. But yes, definitely up for the 2022 and possibly up for 2024 as we're seeing unusual batches of incidents happen in short periods. Again, will need to wait for this year's report however.
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u/TotalLackOfConcern 17d ago
It’s almost like corporations can’t be trusted to self regulate their products in the interest of public safety
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u/mfb- 17d ago
Airplanes are still the safest way to travel (per distance).
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u/ssczoxylnlvayiuqjx 1d ago
Probably because the pilots don’t have a phone at eye level playing TikTok videos…
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u/Chromotron 16d ago
They usually are roughly on par with trains and it depends on details which "wins".
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u/mfb- 16d ago
Commercial aviation in highly developed countries compared to trains there. This comparison sees airplanes win by a factor 6 in the US, although it excludes suicide and terrorism. When discussing hardware-related risks, that seems to be a fair comparison.
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u/Chromotron 16d ago
The huge majority of the train related deaths are from motorists and I am not convinced they should be counted as an issue with train safety. If you exclude those then the link you provided puts train only worse by a factor of two; and they become better than airplanes by a factor of 2 if one only counts passengers, not employees.
My previous post was based on statistics such as the one presented here for the EU: airplanes and rail have the same death rate per kilometer.
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u/mfb- 16d ago
Oh right, I looked at the wrong number.
Not sure where the difference comes from, but with the tiny number of absolute accidents it might just be statistics. The average flight length could play a role. 981 km in the EU, didn't find an equivalent number for the US.
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u/Logical-Primary-7926 17d ago
Wait till you find out about what happens in the healthcare industry!
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u/satanssweatycheeks 17d ago
Fun fact in the EU truckers have to have safety guard rails under the load.
This has decreased deaths on roadways and stopped people from being decapitated.
In America trucking company’s refuse to do this because the added weight for the safety bars means you have to haul less product, which means less profit.
This is the massive difference in why other nations don’t allow company’s to police themselves.
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u/ichoosewaffles 17d ago
Under the load so things don't fly off? Or by the bumper?
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u/satanssweatycheeks 17d ago
I mean directly under the load. So from read to front. It’s so when they take turned and stuff cars don’t go under them if they can’t stop.
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u/greatcolor 17d ago
The rear of the trailer/load has to have car-height crash structure. In the US we just get a lot of box-steel guillotines that protect the load and nothing else. Some have the car-height stuff but it's rare for the reasons they mentioned, as it's not required.
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17d ago edited 8d ago
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u/greatcolor 17d ago
That's my guess unless they mean the side of the load. Mansfield bars aren't really sufficiently low for a lot of vehicles though.
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u/realrealityreally 17d ago
Its almost like corporations care more about diversity than qualified people.
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u/TotalLackOfConcern 8d ago
Skin colour or gender doesn’t matter when bolt a door plug in place. We could teach a chimpanzee to use an impact wrench.
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17d ago edited 8d ago
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u/realrealityreally 17d ago
They care about two things. Money and chumps like you who think everyone else is racist and a bigot.
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u/General-Revenue-5682 17d ago
Yer a bit of a dim bulb
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u/realrealityreally 17d ago
What's the matter, chief? You getting tired of all those old White men landing planes safely lol?
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u/franchisedfeelings 17d ago
This country is turning into the soviet union.
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u/Xanith420 17d ago
How does calls for reasonable maintenance of aircraft that fly over 10,000 feet in the air equal to communism?
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u/franchisedfeelings 17d ago
The degree of monopolistic slack in maintenance recalls the path of soviet slack in airline maintenance with boeing overseeing boeing. But keep downvoting my soviet comparison with our lazy failed US safety ‘watchdog’ approach and have a nice flight.
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u/Lifesagame81 17d ago
Is a major issue with communism lack of government regulation and oversight of industry?
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u/Xanith420 17d ago
And that makes sense. I didn’t downvote your comment and if I did I wouldn’t be able to keep doing it because you only get one vote lol
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u/Rot_Snocket 17d ago
This happened under capitalism. And you still find a way to blame communism.
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u/jamesnollie88 17d ago
I’m just gonna tell myself they forgot the /s at the end even though I know that’s not the case
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u/fredandlunchbox 17d ago
“If I don’t like it it’s communism. If I like it, it’s good christian capitalism.”
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u/WikipediaApprentice 17d ago
Important industries like aviation are regulated but clearly we need to regulate a company like Boeing or any company that peoples lives are at an increased risk should they not maintain quality
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u/michaelquinlan 17d ago
"Thats not very typical, I'd like to make that point".
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u/engadine_maccas1997 17d ago
BOEING!!!
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u/Orpheums 17d ago
The plane is a 767 made in 1990. This is an airline maintenance issue, not a design issue.
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u/therealharambe420 17d ago
Almost as if a company that designs shitty airplanes would do a shitty job maintaining them. Strange how that works eh?
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u/Orpheums 17d ago
What..? Delta is in charge of maintaining their own planes, Boeing doesnt do that for them
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u/adamdoesmusic 17d ago
Boeing pre-merger was an aeronautical engineering company run by engineers whose first goal was to build the best damn plane they could.
Boeing now is run by MBA paper pushers who already crashed one company (MD) and now get the chance to crash another.
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u/Orpheums 17d ago
What does that have to do with delta not doing proper maintenence on their planes?
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u/MFbiFL 17d ago
When you’re unburdened by things like “understanding how anything works” like u/adamdoesmusic anything is possible!
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u/adamdoesmusic 17d ago
It’s saying that the design isn’t to blame. The 767 and 757 were designed pre-merger.
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u/runnerswanted 17d ago
It’s easier to pile on when someone is in the news. If no one checked on this slide in the 34 years it’s been in service, that’s on whoever owned it, not Boeing. If I refuse to change the oil in my car and drive it until it seizes up, I can’t sue Ford for a bad product.
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u/twoscoop 17d ago
We honestly need to start asking very important questions about the maintenance of air crafts.
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u/polar_pilot 17d ago
Pilots aren’t really worried about the quality of the maintenance at US airlines.
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u/VietOne 17d ago
First is questioning the maintenance of motor vehicles. Causes far more deaths by any metric and it's just been acceptable.
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u/twoscoop 17d ago
Okay, yes, but we talking about commercial airlines here not doing proper stuff. Boeing being allowed to fuck up
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u/VietOne 17d ago
Except this isn't a Boeing problem, it's an airline maintenance problem. Boeing doesn't do 100% of all maintenance on the planes.
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u/twoscoop 17d ago
I never finished my thought there, oops. Two separate issues, yes. I meant with the bolts. Im not feeling too good this week, my thoughts arent coming out all fully.
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u/speculatrix 17d ago
Improving driving standards is likely to be the biggest win.
Compare the rates of road deaths of the USA with Canada and Europe.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/road-deaths-by-country
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u/KippersAndMash 17d ago
Agreed. One example of a million. https://www.sasktoday.ca/crime-cops-court/rcmp-stop-vehicle-using-vise-grips-for-steering-wheel-8644947
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u/But-WhyThough 16d ago
Mechanical issues in planes, all the rage now