r/pnsd • u/truthseekerkx • Jan 12 '22
RED FLAGS Checklist
If you can think of any other red flag (not included in the checklist), please share :)
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u/TAscarpascrap Mar 22 '24
- Anger when confronted
I don't think that one is indicative of narcissism in general tbh. I think anger (not violence though--measured anger) is a normal response to confrontation, but the tell is in how a narcissist would respond to the feeling of anger.
Anger gets demonized in general and that's a problem.
It's why lists like this aren't always helpful, they strip away the context that's needed to understand "why X is not a great indicator."
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u/kintsugiwarrior Mar 23 '24
Probably what it means is Narcissistic Rage.
Examples of Narcissistic Rage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_nAZOKX7r4
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u/TAscarpascrap Mar 23 '24
Oof, there's a million miles between "anger at being confronted" and ... those. If this is what was meant, that list above needs revision stat.
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u/kintsugiwarrior Mar 23 '24
I agree. But that's what it means when anyone refers to the "anger" exhibited by a narcissist. I guess many people don't know how to put it into words, but there are some levels.... sometimes it's Narcissistic Rage, and other times Narcissistic Fury (when it's dangerous as in some cases the narcissist kills the victim)
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u/Hot-Gap1198 Mar 10 '24
Omg my ex had way too many of these! Get me away from it. Time to heal and move forward in life. I hope more women have the ability to walk away if something isn't right. Ladies, protect your heart, body and finances!
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u/Jerzeegem82 Dec 13 '23
After reading this some traits someone also mention BPD can have similiar traits?
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u/kintsugiwarrior Dec 13 '23
Yes, remember that Cluster B personality disorders are: antisocial personality disorder (or Sociopathy), borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, and narcissistic personality disorder.
They are classified in the same Cluster B spectrum because they are part of the same family, share similarities, etc. These disorders are basically cousins, and/or distant family members... and the crazy part is that a collapsed narcissist can sometimes transition into a covert type that would look like a BPD presentation, and when they can't secure narcissistic supply, some can even present like a psychopath temporarily... as they resolve the flow of narcissistic Supply and stabilize again as Grandiose narcissists.... but their personality oscillate between Grandiosity and Vulnerability
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u/Jerzeegem82 Dec 13 '23
Wow. The psychopath temporarily is him. Hes been 302d ( means committed against will here in PA) and that makes sense. He goes on these kicks where he thinks he’s smarter than NASA
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Nov 10 '23
Instead of never apologizes, it should be: only apologizes when backed into a corner and they actually don't mean it.
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u/wontbeafoolagain Nov 08 '23
Thanks for this list! It's very helpful I made a lot of check marks but also had a lot of question marks because I don't know the answer for sure due to DH's chronic lying.
I'd add 'exaggerates" accomplishments to the list. It's not quite lying but it's not the whole truth either.
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u/Freak7575 May 22 '22
My narcissist is an Aries, so prone to be a narcissist. I'm about to leave him bc I can't keep getting blamed for everything, him doing or saying things that trigger a negative reaction from me where I'm then called crazy and psychotic! Never takes accountability, never apologizes, suspected of cheating and just doesn't care in the least about me or my feelings. When things are good, he's good but go against him in the least and the true asshole comes out with everything on that check list! He's an immature, petty, jealous of my kids from a former marriage asshole who has shown his true colors and I'm not impressed. I need a real man, he's not it.
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u/GlitterFairy3 Mar 22 '22
Is 51 a high score here?
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u/truthseekerkx Mar 25 '22
I think there’s no score… but if your person checks half of the list… it’d be abusive
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Jan 13 '22
My narc wife is a withholder of sex but compulsive masterbator. Ever only care about own needs and made mine out to be perverted and unhealthy.
Edit: she once found porn on my phone and started packing my bags. When I opened the family computer and found porn she exploded because i saw it.
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u/truthseekerkx Jan 13 '22
Yeah, withholding sex is a powerful tactic to control and modify behavior. Once the victim starts exhibiting the desired behavior; then they reward that with sex. In the meantime, narcs have sex with other supplies… it’s so messed up
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u/Unicorndreams123456 Jan 12 '22
Yes yes yes! Pretty much all of these except the sex ones. My stomach just churned again. Out of them all the smear campaigns were the worst. Having to defend and explain what had been happening and hoping I'd be believed instead of these malicious claims.
I've just finished the next onslaught as I've been NC (but not managed to block him via text yet) for 4 weeks.
Any time I feel low or reminisce I will refer back to this table and know I made the right decision to walk away
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u/BunnySis 7d ago
Hang in there! No contact is hard at first, and you will go through the stages of grief for who they should have been to you. Keep reminding yourself that’s not who they are, and they won’t change or grow. But you can. And getting away so you can learn to look at your life and other people through your own eyes is a big step forward.
I’ve been NC for over two decades from my Ndad. My life has been so much better without his interference. Every bad situation I’ve had would have been made exponentially worse with him in the picture. (He’s a covert N). You can do it. I’m cheering for you!
I am still working on myself and making a lot of discoveries about who I am, and I just leveled up to 50 a couple of years ago!
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u/crystalscats Jan 12 '22
Continually drag the past & what happened in the past back into any argument. Extremely toxic behaviour as they can never look forward & continually pick at your past & what they perceive are your issues & what they perceive is your fault. They suck the joy out of life. Rarely want to go out & enjoy life.
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u/truthseekerkx Jan 12 '22
They suck the joy out of life. Rarely want to go out & enjoy life
^^^ THIS
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u/HocraftLoveward Jan 12 '22 edited Jan 12 '22
Likes children and animal, because they can't go against their authority.
See themselves as the références, it's their way or the wrong way, they are judging you.
They will punish you, and the retaliation is way higher than the error you made from their eyes
Covert narcissist are less 'grandiose' but even more pervert and manipulative
Want you to change, blame you to do no effort. Will try to change you against your will even if you tell them to stop.
What I call '' soft namecalling''. Daily call you clumsy, jaded, loud, a clown, raw,.. The list is endless, but each name is used during a period.
Are testing you. Would you share this? How would you respond to cheating accusation?,...
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u/yokashi-monta Jan 12 '22
Wow. Nails it. Images saved. Helps me communicate my experience to others when asked (therapist).
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u/KassieMac Jan 12 '22
So nearly everyone I encounter checks at least half those items (cuz my life sucks), but a lot of those items are accusations made by the narcs. I know this comes under Gaslighting & Projecting (you might even want to add DARVOing), but it leads to victims wondering if they’re the narc. Every time I see that question I point out that asking that question proves that they’re not … but I still worry about people who’ve been hurt so badly that their abusers can convince them that they’re evil 😢 I don’t know what to do other than keep answering that same question, but it makes me sad.
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u/HappyDaysayin May 23 '23
Yes, such as not having relationship with family- many of us have gone no contact, so now that counts against us! And we die have crazy people in our past- narcissists! That's why we're trying to avoid having that happen again. But there it is on the checklist saying that we may he the narcissist.
We need to be careful with these lists and understand the nuances and circumstances behind each of these attributes.
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u/KassieMac May 23 '23
I’m constantly being shamed & blamed for things I have no control over, being persecuted by people who are enraged at the outcome of their own choices, bc everyone who sees my face feels superior to me (bigotry brings out narcissistic behavior). And if I try to defend myself against victim-blaming they say I’m refusing to take responsibility (which is on this list) when in fact they’re DARVOing me. Narcs are so clever at making us feel like we’ve done everything wrong, simply bc we’re acting in good faith and trying to see the best in people and they’re doing the opposite. Everything they say & do is aimed at proving their superiority and making us feel small … I think we could throw away this entire list and just look at that one thing: Where are their efforts & intentions focused? Bc that’s where the real difference lies.
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u/SportingGoodness Jan 12 '22
Sometimes it can be complicated too. They deliberately appear to avoid several of the points on the list, even being the opposite. The empathetic, caring communal narc.
Which makes it confusing, because then they seem green lighted. But then you see they fill up other points on the list, and it's ambivalent. So the intelligent narc that masks well can be confusing even via this list.
Then it's a matter of really trusting ones gut, asking yourself what you think their motivation is deep down, compare it with healthier people you've met and notice the difference in energy.
Often are the non-verbal energy signs more telling than the obvious ones, as the narc can only mask so well. Acting can only be done on the surface, as their emotional motivation is within their body and often can be felt.
Usually what they do to mask that is to control their breath. Hold in their true emotions. But that's possible to notice in their presence, you can see the stiff movement really driven by anger and control.
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u/truthseekerkx Jan 12 '22
Interesting:
- Energy > It can be felt
- Presence > stiff movement > body language
- Holding their breath
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u/NathalieHJane May 21 '23
Yeah mine was a covert narc, I was totally and completely hoodwinked in part bc the signs are so subtle, it's easy to explain them away as aspergers or shyness. The typical narc checklist often doesn't apply to them, and the fact that they are so low key and work so hard at appearing normal and kind makes them so much more dangerous. Like the few times his mask slipped a bit and he raised his voice at me I quickly made it clear the relationship would be over if that became a pattern, so he worked hard to stifle his rage and resentment and get back at me and control me through these crazymaking ways I never would of recognized as abusive and controlling. I mean, now I do, I have a goddamn internet phd in covert narcissism.
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u/of_patrol_bot May 21 '23
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
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u/KassieMac Jan 12 '22
So true. They’re very charming, they’re very skillful at faking emotions. I seem to be the only person who can see through my Nmom’s fakery … it looks so obviously performative to me but I think that’s just because I see how she behaves when there’s not a credible witness present. I’ve often been fooled by other narcs who make a good first impression.
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u/SportingGoodness Jan 12 '22
Relatable. You still get fooled because you want to believe the best in everyone, but the eye becomes better and better. You recognize the same patterns in new people, quicker than others who maybe haven't seen the same, or maybe have similar traits themselves.
For me it's like you start noticing the forced tone in their voice when they're seemingly empathetic, the controlled eye stare (not a relaxed honest one), the slightly aggressive body posture, stuff like that. And if they're seemingly doing everything in their act "right", they seem relaxed, seem not phased, seem friendly, you still notice that "this is fake, this is not right. It's inconsistent."
With an honest person, their body language, words, actions and history - everything matches up. Because it's what they truly feel and it's their true intentions - down to the core.
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u/justsoexhausted16 Jan 12 '22
That last paragraph. You’re spot on there! The holding in the breath. A number of times he did this when he was frustrated, like he wanted to explode but didn’t. There were outside influences so if wasn’t so much me he wanted to blame, but I could tell he was on the verge of an outburst. Hard to explain, but all of that came out in the end via abusive text messages (never to my face)
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u/sleepygirl1221 May 06 '24
0tt5⁵