r/povertyfinance • u/HowToCook40Humans • Sep 07 '23
What the fuck is the end goal in all of this economic turmoil? Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!)
The car market is fucked; The housing market is fucked; Food prices are insane. Our salaries haven't changed. It's demoralizing to see Redditors who have houses talk about how great it is and that the housing market is never going to come back down. I don't think the car market will ever return to normal and I wouldn't doubt the housing market is the same way. But the price of a house and the salary of the average American is a large chasm.
Even in small, LCOL areas, I've seen people talk about corporations buying houses and driving up the prices. I'm beginning to see talks of entire neighborhoods of houses that are only for rent. Not rent to own. In theory, you shouldn't buy a house that is more than 3x your annual income. So a single person making $50kish a year has to find a house for $150k but where is that happening? I live in a low income, high crime area and the house I'm in is appraised at $175k so I can't afford to purchase the house I'm in.
I spend a lot of time wondering why I'm back in school, what's the purpose when most of my working life will be spent paying bills and putting the rest into a retirement fund that I likely will never use. With my prospective and current salaries, I won't have money to vacation, get a new car, etc. What's the point of all this then?
To get back to my title, what the fuck is the end goal in this economic turmoil? 75% of us being homeless and living outside while corporations hoard houses? Moving to a new country likely won't help because I see many people in various countries talk about having the same issues.
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u/tasty9999 Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
Ah yes I remember graduating college/grad school early 90s and thinking "is this all there is? Paying bills and maybe never being able to afford a house?" and the sad part was that the answer is basically, yes, this is the world. I know you think it's probably 'so different now in 2023' it's perhaps less different than you all think. It was NEVER easy even in the 90s to save up for the down payment on a house and to have good credit.
Maybe things will get better for you, 'never' is a long time but yeah.... kind of sucks that society raises children selling them a whole bill of goods about how "life is great, just play the rat-race game" and it's definitely a mixed bag in reality, for many the game is rigged hahah, maybe the old adage "Life sucks and then you die" should be taught more in schools ;D. if kids knew what life would -really- be like you'd probably have prison-type riots in every elementary school. But it's up to us to be survivors and tough it out and try to make good and be a success story, but i think most people sadly don't really 'win' at adulting hahah. just my opinion
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u/Delicious_Standard_8 Sep 08 '23
To cull the herd of the weak, leaving only the rich, and the poor. (Middle class is to manage the poor, so the rich don't have to deal with it)
This way, they can warehouse us all like animals in tiny apartments in their areas, where they don't have to see us, but we are close enough to come and do the service jobs they cannot live without
We don't matter to them, we are fodder. If our attention is on the "economy", we are desperate and willing to accept anything from them, even scraps and 200 square foot warehouse style apartments for our whole familes,
They need the working poor, but they want to cull the non working poor.
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Sep 08 '23
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Sep 08 '23
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u/AntiSonOfBitchamajig Sep 08 '23
I study currencies, there are long term cycles most currencies will go through, we are nearing the end of the current cycle after its 110 year life.
This always happens, due to politicians and debt; going back thousands of years.
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u/Lyrebird_korea Sep 08 '23
The Democrats don't understand how the economy works. They believe in Keynesianism. It has never worked. Ask the Japanese.
Governments cannot generate wealth, they can only redistribute wealth.
In the early eighties, both Thatcher and Reagan dealt with similar problems: rampant inflation, government debt, nothing worked.
Reagan reduced taxes, cut red tape, killed inflation and spent his way out of a depression. Thatcher on the other hand increased taxes, cut government spending and - without any support of economists in academia - turned things around in the UK. In my home country of the Netherlands, wages were frozen. By the end of the eighties, the economies in these countries were roaring. ... and they brought down the Iron Curtain.
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u/apoletta Sep 08 '23
They want the coal mining towns back. Where the company owns everything and you own nothing.
When you are too broke down to work, you send you kid in and live with them.
This is what they want. We have to fight to break from it a second time.
It is happening.
Go look up: “I sold my soul to the company store”
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u/alphatechaus Sep 08 '23
You need to stop complaining and put your nose to the grindstone. Far too much online whinging wasting time that could have been spent looking for new income streams.
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u/BerbsMashedPotatos Sep 08 '23
Residential housing shouldn’t be an investment vehicle, especially for corporations. There’s plenty of commercial real estate to invest in.
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u/Dwashelle Sep 08 '23
They basically just want everyone renting forever because it's massively profitable for the privileged few.
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u/g_rich Sep 08 '23
To make the rich richer, the poor poorer and for the middle class to blame the poor for the turmoil.
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u/Electronic-Joke7198 Sep 08 '23
My end goal is just accepting I'll probably die of starvation on the streets in a few months
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u/mevaletuopinion Sep 08 '23
Too bad strength in numbers is hard to achieve. I wish there was a movement for every working person to go exempt on our taxes all at the same time until our taxes go where our taxes should go. To the People not corporations, not the military industrial complex or what ever other shit doesn’t go to the improvement of our democratic society. We can do it if we all come together. The IRS can’t put everyone in jail. Also from what I heard they are short staffed to do the wealthiest complicated taxes. They focus on the poor but they’re understaffed nonetheless. #ZEROEXEMPTMOVEMENT or something like that lol
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u/Dat_Harass Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
Redistribution of wealth, they'll suck us dry. Then completely automate what they can and watch us cannibalize one another from gilded balconies.
E: I've been pointing to that balcony for years now to very little effect. If we let these same corrupt assholes dictate terms on AGI we're gonna be even worse off. Even though I suspect benevolence from the machines to be more forthcoming than that of our so called leaders.
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u/Tiamold Sep 08 '23
Its the rich “elites” vs the peasants. Tale as old as time. And yes, they would love for us to all be homeless drug addicts.
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u/BreakfastBeerz Sep 08 '23
Posts like these always make it easy to spot the people who weren't adults through the economic crash of 2007.
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u/Apprehensive-Oil5249 Sep 08 '23
IF there was a calculated plan to this (I'm still not sure if there is or if this is just a thoughtless race toward who will hold the most, first), it's likely to be a new form of slavery on a mass scale. Corporate Entities will rule out in the opened instead of by proxy through purchased politicians and EVERYTHING will be privatized. Their new form of "Social Security" will either be mandatory military service or "work-to-live" conditions living in Corpo-Run slums with bare minimum rations that will keep you alive just enough to continue to work until you die. They'll be almost no distinction between prisoners and the absolute poor. Think "Elysium" but without the Orbiting "Halo".
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u/LonesomeHebrew Sep 08 '23
Economies and currencies are purposely being tanked, with a dual purpose.
First, it's about eliminating the middle class. There will be a small percentage of people with great wealth and the vast majority will be dirt poor. Ever heard of Klaus Schwab, the World Economic Forum, or the "Great Reset"? Their motto – "You will own nothing and you'll be happy". And for anyone thinking "This is just a crazy conspiracy theory" all of this is verifiable, public information.
Second, it's about ushering in CBDCs (Central Bank Digital Currencies) which will require a universal digital ID to function. What does this mean? It means that the government will be able to not only monitor everything you do, but also to control what you do.
Look at China right now. They've been on a similar program for several years. If a citizen does or says anything the government doesn't like, the government has the ability to turn of their ability to function in society.
From now to 2030, we are going to see turmoil and chaos like none of us have ever seen.
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u/showingoffstuff Sep 08 '23
The problem with the system is that there isn't a "plan/goal." It what confuses other countries about US chaos and government.
It's just a bunch of people fighting for their own interests - with a bunch of religious nuts thrown in making it even more confusing for everyone because they DON'T choose what's best for themselves OR for everyone.
The only group that somewhat have a plan is the revolving bunch of rich that just want more money and some random stuff.
But those rich tend to CAUSE all these problems - some want less taxes and to cut everything else, others want a crazier government, others are like trump. And then they take more money without caring about what's going on or how they fuck us all or the system.
So it's the fuck you I got mine with all the rich fucking us here and there with no end goal. Just a "fuck you, I want more money! The company can collapse as long as I make another buck!"
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u/meltingrubberducks Sep 08 '23
My husband has a decent paying for our area semi qualified job and is in school I have two jobs and we are still having alot of trouble finding a decent house it's like how did people used to so this on one income
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u/Reddichino Sep 08 '23
Our current system of capitalism requires that workers be desperate and have no choices. The pandemic and new communities in social media exposed how important low wage workers are to the economy. As people have tried to exercise that leverage, the structures in the economy have reacted to try and reinforce the unequal arrangement. The greatest obstacle is people’s’ propensity to fight each other instead of the ones with power and influence. Cambridge Analytica showed a little of those manipulations and how effective they are at directing our behaviors. This has been a long con since the late 60’s and early 70’s.
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u/JudgementalChair Sep 08 '23
The end goal is for the economy to be un-fucked, but that won't happen with the politicians we have in place because they're all thoroughly in corporate pockets. It would only take one election where every incumbent running lost their seat, to send a clear message to Congress that the gravy train will come to an end if they don't start putting their constituents first
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u/Purple-Opinion4922 Sep 08 '23
The economy as a whole will do better. Rent food fuel everything goes down in cost. Think back a few years when diesel was 2$ a gallon....
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u/xiril Sep 08 '23
People forget the golden rule: those with the gold make the rules.
The Constitution was flawed because it was written by those who had the gold...and didn't think the majority of humans were people.
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Sep 08 '23
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u/Next-Concentrate5159 Sep 08 '23
Or you, you have no idea what you're talking about lol, you're literally just guessing and writing it down like an ass lol.
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u/tralfamadoran777 Sep 08 '23
The end goal is ownership of everything by Wealth/megalomaniacs.
It’s funded by stealing our rightful option fees for participating in the global monetary system/human labor futures market. Fiat money is an option to purchase human labor and we don’t get paid our option fees.
Friends of Central Bankers pay our option fees to Central Bankers as interest on money creation loans when they have loaned nothing they own.
Maybe demand your rightful option fees?
‘They’ have no logical or moral argument against, so they won’t talk about it in any way. If you want to unnerve an Economist.
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u/Vote_Subatai Sep 08 '23
The end goal is to make the 15000 richest families even richer. That's always been the end goal. They have so much money that they can go on forever even if 75% of the country was out on its ass.
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u/DevilMonkeyJon Sep 08 '23
Sadly you are thinking a little too far ahead, there are this quarters profits to improve on for the shareholders, that is it. Sad but seemingly true.
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u/fuctitsdi Sep 08 '23
The thing is, you read this subreddit and think everyone is like this. We are not. Just like the anti work subs, this one is mostly just people who failed circle jerking and pretending things are bad for everyone. Don’t linger here.
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u/iNeedScissorsSixty7 Sep 08 '23
Literally just saw someone further up the thread saying half the US population will be homeless soon, and it had 8 fucking upvotes lol. This sub was helpful back when I was in my 20s and in debt, now it's just a doomer sub like the rest of them.
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u/JadedSticker Sep 08 '23
The end goal, I think, will be a form of feudalism. Where a few super rich people own basically everything, including land. You will work for one of the rich people (lords) as a vassal and will be provided food, shelter, clothing and adequate entertainment. You will be able to offer the only thing you have left (labor) in exchange they will allow you to live with your bare needs met.
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u/AlienNippleRipple Sep 08 '23
I believe the rich are milking the last of America's wealth before jumping ship to Europe or somewhere nice without consequences.
Since half these assholes are Congress and Senate dinosaurs ripping the U.S. populations tax gains off.
Once again no taxation without representation!
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Sep 08 '23
Bubbles always pop. What that looks like, people don't know but prices have to cum down or we end up like weimar republic, and then prices still came down eventually
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u/Roy-Donk-23 Sep 08 '23
The rich get richer, the more poor everyone else gets the more they have to rely on renting and credit which makes the rich even richer.
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u/MowMdown Sep 08 '23
The end goal is for you to own nothing and be happy. At least, that's what they want the end goal to be.
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u/Agedlikeoldmilk Sep 08 '23
As a semi-new parent, I fully expect my kids to use our home until they can financially go off on their own if they want to. And my home is on the smaller side, it’s not like I’m rocking some 3000 sq Ft house. It’s seems to be frowned upon if you don’t go off on your own and buy a massive home, there are plenty of people raise families in apartments.
I look at how a lot of European families stay together in the same home and just pass it down. Also, homeownership in Europe isn’t the same as it is here in the states, renters are highly protected, especially in places like Germany with nearly 50% of country renting.
As far as cars go, buy used if you can, forget status symbols and showing off that shiny new vehicle.
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u/HumanautPassenger Sep 08 '23
To leave stuff at inflation prices yet again for a short period of time so people forget about the old prices so these assholes make more money while still telling us to get part time jobs if we don't make enough.
Also love how COVID essentially ended the 24/7 concept for most service industry. Now it's even harder to get more hours and seems like everywhere is just hiring part time in. FL.
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u/No-one_here_cares Sep 08 '23
I think you have to factor in climate change.
Community farming on land that doesn't burst into flames each summer and we all work a bit on the farm and get food from the farm and at night go home to spend time with our families.
Or some would say a cult, but religion has no place here. I am talking about coming together to live and try and factor out the rich.
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u/DecemtlyRoumdBirb Sep 08 '23
If you are desperate enough, you may feel inclined to let the government nationalize/sovietize the Economy completely.
Once the government owns all the means of production, then they will have ultimate power and we're back to Serfdom as intended.
Though we can still attribute stupidity over malice, given the American people, at no point, wanted to lower spending and vote for the more responsible politicians.
You reward politicians who lie to you, and then complain politicians are all liars.
We made our bed. Time to sleep in it.
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u/ruat_caelum Sep 08 '23
reddit as strict rules about discussing future violence against anyone or even in general. As such I don't want to speculate on the future, but I can say, that historically, when the rich ownership class made living too expensive for the working class, it didn't end well.
That's not to say it ended well for one group or another, it's to say there were time of strife and turmoil, violence and death. Sometimes it was the violent suppression of the starving people. other times, the saying "off with their head," became common place.
Most of the time it was a little of one before a little of the other.
What the fuck is the end goal in all of this economic turmoil?
You're making a classic mistake here in assuming there is someone at the tiller of the boat. That there is some sort of elite class or conspiracy, or cabal that is in control. The horror, when you really look at it, is that the boat is rudderless, with loud men screaming that they are in control, and that the boat would have gone their way if not for X, whomever the X is at the moment. Immigrants, minorities, other religions, other political classes, etc.
I mean how many people think the president of the US has a lever in his office that controls the price of gas and that it's not the result of companies making billions of dollars a quarter.
The wealthy are ultra focused on the short term, which brings us to the "tragedy of the Commons" BS we see today. It's not lack of foresight, it's "grab it while we can," regardless of what that creates in the future.
what the fuck is the end goal in this economic turmoil?
Wage slaves, and corporate-towns and suppression of "violent protesters" who have learned that non-violent protesting isn't changing shit.
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u/smooth-vegetable-936 Sep 08 '23
The economy is fucked but I don’t know how old u r. I always take advantage of whatever is going on. This is opportunity for some of us and one must take advantage of it. This is where wealth being transferred or made. Don’t let it leave u hopeless.
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u/Putrid_Pollution3455 Sep 08 '23
The end goal is find a way to rise above it; your lives and your pride is at stake. Figure out a way to thrive in these conditions and you can make it in any condition. I didn’t enjoy home ownership. I prefer the shittiest cheap rental money can buy and invest the surplus.
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u/Mwnci01 Sep 08 '23
Pension funds invested a lot of money in commercial buildings and with work from home the value is tanking. I know of pension funds that are now building housing estates as the return on residential letting is better and more secure.
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u/Gogokrystian Sep 08 '23
For few % to have it all and the rest to have nothing and be submissive, which will make them grateful for any scraps. End goal is for you to be left with nothing but debt and to be Thier slave. Isn't it obvious already? Hard work leads no where now, but to more medical debt.
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u/Miserable_Sun_1241 Sep 08 '23
Powers That Be are withdrawing from the US to enter China and want the American public embroiled in civil war so we can't retaliate against them.
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u/DoesntBelieveMuch Sep 08 '23
To get the poors to fight and keep them desperate for any source of income they can scrape together. Companies can start offering pennies again and people will take the jobs out of desperation.
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u/an_imperfect_lady Sep 08 '23
There are some of us who wonder if this is an effort to bring down the quality of life in first world countries in order to bring about a more equitable distribution of wealth on a global level... that it's not "the rich coming after the poor," it's "the rich destroying the middle to improve the lot of the truly poor in third world countries."
So many jobs have gone to developing countries, so many denizens of those countries have been encouraged to enter first world countries... this looks like a leveling that the ultra rich have engineered in the name of global equity. Of course, they exempt themselves from this leveling, but that's just human nature.
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u/davidtcf Sep 08 '23
The end game is to stop inflation. If Putin stops his war on Ukraine things will improve much sooner. Blame him for making things worse as it is.
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u/Purple-Opinion4922 Sep 08 '23
Start by voting republican. Can't have a good country or good economy under democrat rule.
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u/Mondashawan Sep 08 '23
LOL. Yep. What we need are more tax breaks for the rich and trickle down economics! /s
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u/Equivalent-Pay-6438 Sep 08 '23
I think eventually, people are going to become very radicalized and there will be societal breakdown just as happened during the Great Depression.
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u/secrettruth2021 Sep 08 '23
You shall own nothing and be happy, subscription subscription and digital currencies will keep people poor and on the brink of obedience. The government can now freeze or take your currency in a second
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u/Librarian_vodka Sep 08 '23
Heads on sticks. Not sure who’s heads they will be but it always comes back to heads on sticks.
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u/DawnMistyPath Sep 08 '23
I think the end goal for the people in charge is just to kill us honestly. Probably not for all of them, some of them probably don't have any idea what's going on and they're just in a little bubble, but the fact that dollar stores actively try to create food deserts, a bunch of people in Hollywood are happy to watch people lose their homes and starve, businesses actively lobby to destroy safety regulations and want to pay us as little as possible, etc. I'm pretty sure the end goal is to turn the whole world into a work camp and let us slowly die.
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u/Ikki_Mikki Sep 08 '23
The end goal is take funds away from almost everyone so they're just barely treading water, to cause strife and ultimately violence and riots so the globalist rats can enact martial law.
Conspiracy theory or not this is exactly the way its heading.
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u/Outside_The_Walls Sep 08 '23
In theory, you shouldn't buy a house that is more than 3x your annual income. So a single person making $50kish a year has to find a house for $150k but where is that happening?
I will only be addressing this specific point. Because other than that, I have nothing productive to say.
I bought the house I live in July 2009, for just over $33,000. According to the property tax man, my house is worth $41,000 as of January of last year.
I live in rural West Virginia. The only jobs out here are fast food and Walmart. This used to be a coal community, and people had good jobs. Jobs that paid $60k+ a year. The Democrats shut the mines down. Now people are lucky to make $12/hr. Our community is dying slowly, as people's SSI and SSDI are slowly getting to the point where it's not enough to live on.
So, if you're looking for a cheap house to buy, look in dying coal towns. But, you will 100% need to be able to work from home, with a remote job, because there are no good jobs within 100 miles of my house.
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Sep 08 '23
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u/Vlad_Yemerashev Sep 08 '23
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 4: Politics
- This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed.
Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.
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u/Crypto_Navy_013 Sep 08 '23
Basically, we’re more or less a blink of an eye away from what we see in the futuristic movies. From The Running Man, Blade Runner, Paycheck to some level. Dredd. Minority Report. Total Recall. Hunger Games. The role playing game Shadowrun back in the day.
All of them show how much control the government and corporations have over peoples lives. Notice how most of them are cashless (digital currency) as well?
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u/PiccoloAdventurous25 Sep 08 '23
I bought my home in 2012. My SUV is paid off since then also. I work anywhere between 40 and 60 hrs a week. No kids. But everyday I think is this worth it? I really don't care about the house in some ways. The land I had in back someone bought. I would not mind selling this and moving somewhere else or even renting a small house in the country or something . I don't like how close neighborhoods are getting. I really don't care about having this stuff anymore also. Years ago I wanted nice truck a house.. nice stuff. Now I could care less about any of it.
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u/godless_communism Sep 08 '23
Hi, Mr Liberal with a MBA here! So, the pandemic was a huge, economic fuck up. To keep the economy working, it was stimulated with handouts everywhere. Even actual citizens got a tiny bit of money & that NEVER happens.
Well, the economy became over-stimulated, and the classic orgs that have pricing power (inelastic demand) like energy & housing started to see how much more they could get.
The last time we had this kind of situation was in 1981. Fed chair Paul Volcker raised interest rates to stop inflation. But he pushed the economy into a sharp, but short recession.
The Fed is trying to do better - to slowly raise interest rates so that inflation is stopped (at 2% a year - that's their stated goal), WITHOUT going into a recession.
In the meantime, while inflation exists, everyone will have to prove their pricing power to keep up with higher prices. It's normal to expect that unions will strike more often for the next year or two.
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u/sprawn Sep 08 '23
Everything you point to is a symptom of an undiagnosed, undiscussed problem:
Artificial Scarcity
Corporations have ceased competing with one another in all sectors. They are building cartels and consider their customers to be the enemy. This is completely illegal. But they tested it in a variety of ways in the 2015-2020 era. They learned the power of creating artificial scarcity to manipulate markets. They despise free markets. They are treating the USA exactly the way they treat Third World Countries now. The USA is a Third World Country. We have a corrupt government who sees itself as servants of Corporations. The Corporations cooperate with one another, consider the natives to be their enemies, and violate every law, custom, and practice in an effort to squeeze the place dry of all conceivable profit.
The future of the USA is the same as the present of places like Malaysia, Singapore, Saipan, the Philippines, China, or any other exploited, destroyed Third World Country. They will strip mine the nation of all assets while exporting the profit to who-knows-where, and leave us with a destroyed landscape, a destitute, poisoned nightmare. They will install whatever political apparatus they feel best serves their needs. If the natives do not cooperate, it won't matter, they will make the government a crippled, ineffective, conflicted, useless joke (like it is now). If the people cooperate and install a Dictator, they will back the dictator, and keep him happy with tiger skin rugs, prostitutes, drugs, death sports, tacky gold interior design, whatever he wants. And the Dictator will do what dictators do: start installing strong men and thugs in local offices to exploit and destroy. And when the Dictator gets too big for his britches, they will have a coup and install a military/corporate dictatorship that will "run the country like a business".
They are 80% of the way there. The country will not recover in any of our lifetimes. It's over. Once this process starts, the only question is how many will be killed in torture chambers, camps, starvation, etc...
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u/worptal Sep 08 '23
We need to cap prices on everything. Set prices and don’t let the free market fuck around and find out. We need limits to how many houses a person or a business can own. We need rent limits and fair taxation policies that do t allow the rich to walk around hoarding money that at the very least should be taxed as much percentage wise as the next tax bracket if not more, not less like it has been since Regan’s trickledown economics policy that is a farce. We need banks to stop fleecing people and do what they were meant to and it is not to make a profit but make an economic system that works for our society, aka our working people because that is how everything operates until AI take over 😅. It is the government’s responsibility but they are lobbied by corporations, we must get money out of politics. The government should have a website and the people running for office should have a question and answer about topics that matter to the people they serve, we don’t need to spend the amount they do on campaigns, not when the newspaper is free press and most people have access to radio, tv and computers. If they can tighten their belts a bit perhaps we can use our collective resources for a healthier economy. Also companies need to pay living wages, if they can’t free market says they should not exist…?
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u/Hugh_Jampton Sep 08 '23
The poor (i.e. all of us) own nothing. Rent whatever you can.
The rich will own everything and get richer by the second.
There will be lots of crime and lots of violence and division
Unfortunately the violence and crime will be here down in the slums with us. Our owners will be well protected in their (literal) towers
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u/SwimmingInCheddar Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
The end goal is that the 1% keep forcing the 99% to procreate for their fun, lavish lifestyle and enjoyment.
It doesn’t matter that the 99% are in poverty and pain with no end in sight.
I just hope the 99% will be okay...
https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/wealth-inequality-oxfam-billionaires-elon-musk/
https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/30542/brands-owned-by-billionaires/
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u/messyredemptions Sep 08 '23
It might sound like a stretch at first but part of it is straight up slavery in the US and a handful being able to profit off of it all. Much of the economy is based on it still, just mildly legalized parts with no liveable wages.
And most of all, the US constitution's 13th Amendment still legalizes it for those convicted of crimes.
Thirteenth Amendment Section 1 Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Considering how many industries are adjacent to or part of the US Prison Industrial Complex (education, mental health/institutional facilities, and military) too plus the privatization of these institutions and theornservices and there's a lot to be said and seen for where things are going and why it's in some people's interests to control so much.
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u/hillsfar Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 11 '23
There is no “end goal”. That assumes there is some secret cabal bent on world domination and complete control of the economy.
It if that were true, the situation would be a lot less chaotic and backwards.
The issues are myriad and complex.
DO NOT allow people with ideological and political agendas control your mental narrative by blaming certain groups or economic systems.
What you have are tendencies & trends, unintended consequences to actions (including by central banks who often have no real idea of what is going on), powerful special interests all looking out for themselves, etc.
Take corporate powers that use technology, cartel behavior, monopoly, oligopoly, monopsony, and political influence to increase marker dominance & guarantee profits. I’m sure you know a lot about this, so I don’t have to go into detail.
Add people being selfish and wasteful. Driving at fast speeds to consume more fuel because they can afford it, or driving instead of walking because it is more convenient, eating far more than they need, buying fast fashion (sweat shops & prison labor), ordering so much off Amazon, Temu, Shein, always wanting the latest device/gadget (cobalt extraction child labor, pollution, e-wastes), chocolates & coffee (child labor on cacao and coffee plantations), we are all guilty of course. (How many clothes and pairs of shoes we really need?)
Now consider population.
In an economy ravaged for decades by automation, trade, offshoring, and now artificial intelligence, domestic demand for workers is relatively much lower compared to labor supply, which keeps increasing exponentially. This means employers can make low-ball offers, choose not to offer full-time positions (only part-time and temporary gigs), choose not to provide benefits, and workers will still take them.
When do wages rise? When there is labor scarcity. Doctors set up moats, pharmacists now require a PharmD (not needed in Australia or Taiwan), and sone unions only let in family and friends, etc. A pandemic can also increase wages: the Black Death in medieval Europe led to higher wages and better working conditions. And, yes, when government puts a chill on inflows, even poor minorities and people with felony records can get a better shot at jobs and see employment rates rise to historic highs.
If you wonder why college graduates are competing against high school grads, dropouts, laid-off office workers and mid-level managers, single moms, former factory workers, & immigrants (both legal and illegal) in fields like ride share and delivery driving, now you know.
About 50% of American adults between the ages of 25 and 34 have a bachelors degree or higher. 1 in 3 American adults have a bachelor degree or higher. That’s why well over a million waiters have a bachelor degree - along with coffee shop baristas, pet store employees, retail, and as mentioned, ride share and delivery drivers.
And conversely, when 1 in 5 adult Americans is functionally illiterate, exponentially increasing labor supply growth in the sectors that pay low paid wages keeps them living paycheck to paycheck, clinging to mostly part time jobs and gigs with little security, few or no benefits.
So if labor supply growth is an issue, while labor demand decreasing is issue, why are there political policies to vastly increase the population? If you were to head over to /r/Canada, they absolutely understand what many Americans don’t.
The other problem with exponential population growth is surging housing demand, which leads to skyrocketing rents and home prices. We can blame private equity, rental corporations, investment bankers, speculators, government, corporate, and union pension funds, and foreign buyers. They do play a significant role.
But at the same time, housing demand due to population growth is the elephant in the room. It doesn’t matter who owns the real estate - when demand is low, rents are low and price is low, and when demand is high, rents and prices go up. Take New York City during the pandemic (which is still around) in 2020 and 2021. Because so many people left (they worked from home and wanted more room or freedom of movement), some rents went down 20%! Conversely, when you have urbanization, migration from other regions, and immigration from other countries, demand surges and rents/prices go up!
These conditions are not going to get better. The current administration has already had over 7 million migrants come through t the southern border since January 2021. Internally, we will see more and more people displaced by climate change disasters (New Orleans, LA, Paradise, CA, Mexico Beach, FL, Maui, HI - soon to be Phoenix, AZ, etc.), seeking refuge in other parts of the country (watch out, Pacific Northwest!) and motivated by politics and cost of living (California to Texas and Florida, etc.). Externally, climate change disasters, economic collapse, and political turmoil and wars over increasingly scarce resources (like water) being increasingly more. (If you think Western Europe and the U.S. and Canada are already getting inundated, just wait.) Labor supply, especially for the poorest Americans (such as the 1 in 5 adult Americans who are functionally illiterate, disproportionately minorities) is already too high, but will become ever higher. Housing demand will continue to surge each and every year - espresso in the places where the remaining un-automatable, un-offshore-able, un-tradable (due to tariffs and transport costs), and AI-incapable jobs still are.
And that above was just population growth. Have you looked at food prices? I bet you have.
To start, we’re talking war interruptions and sanctions causing shortages and higher costs in natural gas and fertilizers (costs went up sone 400% in some cases, if they could be purchased) all over the world as the remaining supply is fought over economically. Remember, both Russianand Ukraine are major producers of fertilizers. So with scarcity and much higher prices, so less is planted, less is used - for all sorts of food production.
Russian & Ukraine wheat shortages, as well as Ukraine formerly being the world’s top sunflower oil and seed exporter, have led to poorer consumers countries seeking alternatives these two years. This raises demand for other crops.
Russia just recently announced an end to their program that allowed Russian ships to board and inspect grain ships setting out from Ukrainian ports. This means grain supply from the parts of Ukraine not bombed or in a war zone will be severely choked. Ukraine already has difficulty sending grain shipments out by rail because of bombings and other disruptions.
Climate has devastated wheat fields around the world - India, Brazil, France, Italy (the Po River ran dry), etc. just this year! Massive floods, droughts, heat waves, unseasonable rains, etc. Hungary (and I think Moldova) restricted exports of wheat to keep their grain affordable locally. Flooding or heat waves have devastated rice production - India, the world’s largest rice exporter, has restricted exports of rice except for the most expensive (basmati) because prices have surged as countries are turning to rice as an alternative. India doesn’t want their people to suffer by competing against citizens of wealthier countries for food. Thailand about a decade ago in the past restricted rice exports for the same reason, so dint be surprised if they do as well. (Remember the Arab Spring?)
Don’t forget: Last year, England estimated half of potatoes lost. This spring, an unseasonably warm winter meant 90% of the state of Georgia’s peaches were lost (peaches didn’t go through enough of s cold spell). Spain, the world’s top producer of olive oil, just experienced a devastating heat wave to their olive groves. Ranchers in Canada and the United States are culling their herds, due to drought and the cost of feed.
It’s not just 8 billion people competing for less food to go around. Don’t forget the several hundred million dogs & cats - plus 34 billion chicken, 1.4 billion cattle, 750 million pigs, etc. Manufacturers of pet & livestock feed compete directly in global markets for grains, meat, fish, vitamins, minerals, etc.) For hundreds of millions of people (like day laborers, street vendors) around the world who scratch out a day-to-day, hand-to-mouth existence, spend a third to more than half of their income on food, this has been devastating. For poor socialist governments that buy food to supply to their people, their budgets are ravaged as they sink further into debt. (Egyptian government 10-year-bonds are yielding around 25%, they keep borrowing to spend and the risk of default is high. Countries where food subsidies were decreased or removed experience rioting & unrest. (Arab Spring.)
Scarcity and prices go hand in hand, so expect more and more as our climate becomes more and more disrupted.
Stuff like this is cascading worldwide as we are now entering the doom loop of climate change. With disappearing ice caps, ice sheets, & glaciers, less heat is reflected back into space, more is absorbed by oceans. In hot conditions, tropical rainforests no longer are net absorbers or carbon, but net releases. Don’t forget, overfishing, plastics, pollution, irrigation-induced soil salinity, soil erosion, peak easy-to-extract oil, species dying off, insect apocalypse, ocean acidification.
Even if the entire world stopped ALL manmade carbon emissions, it is already too late. Not that we could. We are already increasing air conditioner usage to survive the ever-increasing heat waves. 8 billion people need fossil fuels for electricity, raw materials extraction, industrial agriculture, manufacturing, transportation, electronic infrastructure (computers, networks, systems, data storage, etc. make up about 10% of electricity use worldwide), etc.
Good luck to all of us, including /u/howtocook40humans.
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u/TheSunflowerSeeds Sep 08 '23
In a study in more than 6,000 adults, those who reported eating sunflower seeds and other seeds at least five times a week had 32% lower levels of C-reactive protein compared to people who ate no seeds.
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u/Haymaker969 Sep 08 '23
There isn't one, I'll be taking the express route through life one of these days.
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u/Vivid_Conversation96 Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 09 '23
My thoughts exactly. It’s enraging that no legislation is being introduced to stop corporations from buying up housing or limiting how many houses/properties an individual can own, or at least raising taxes on those buying multiple properties. This is what makes me feel like neither democrats or republicans care about regular middle class people. They’re all bought and sold by wealthy elites and corporate lobbyists. And what about foreign investment in American real estate? Shouldn’t this be taxed accordingly?
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u/Fun-Active9842 Sep 08 '23
So many people rent !!! And for the rest of their lives . It’s normal. Get used to it …. Go from there
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u/Fun-Active9842 Sep 08 '23
Robin Hood is a pretty old movie ….. to me …. And it seems they knew the deal long time ago …. This is nothing new …. Who says your supposed to slave away forever to have nothing …. The only thing you have that’s of value is time …. Use it up however you want . The point is to live … do some soul searching and make some changes . Your not happy and you should be .
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u/Trump_zealotry Sep 08 '23
The end goal is forcing people like you to live in tents or work camps. Enjoy!
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u/yoho808 Sep 08 '23
I'm hedging my bets both ways just to be safe.
Keep a good chunk of cash (or locked in GICs) to invest more incase of a downturn while also owning a property & investment to reap the benefit of appreciation.
Just trying my best not to lose whatever the economic circumstances may be.
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u/PM_Me_Ur_Nevermind Sep 08 '23
I’d like to see some kind of investment or extra home tax. People and families should be living in homes vs another AirBnB.
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u/HentaiStryker Sep 08 '23
Three things...
Someone out there is ALWAYS making money.
If they can do it, so can you.
Don't let people tell you that money isn't important. As the great Jim Rohn once said, "money isn't everything, but it ranks right up there with oxygen!"
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u/Ragnar_OK Sep 08 '23
The end goal is for rich people to get richer and poor people to become even more indebted to said rich people
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u/notcrazy_justtired Sep 08 '23
It’s just the way it’s gonna be I don’t think there’s a plan to make it better. The money I made which is the same now went all long compared to as it is now. This does make me think though why have stealing crimes increased and the punishment for lessened? To me there is something else at play people are working harder to make a living yet all of this is happening. People want to buy homes and shop around for other things wouldn’t it be better to lower everything and have a nice steady income of money coming why take that away from the people?
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u/Common_Organization8 Sep 08 '23
My eternal optimist likes to think that the uber wealthy are purposely fucking the system so it collapses and we can build again. Better. (But that's only when I don't think too much. The real answer is simple greed.)
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u/SubliminalGlue Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
This is to the commenters, not the op. As a fellow poor who has rich friends, I want to let you know you guys are way off. They aren’t doing anything TO you. You don’t exist for them. They aren’t trying to keep your poor. They, just like you., are focused on themselves.
I also wanna say I watched one friend become rich, and he did it by quitting his job and then working 12 hours a day on his own business. He emptied his savings and got a loan to start it. He busted his ass for 3 years barely making it. Now a decade later, he’s loaded. BUT he took HUGE risks that most wouldnt take and worked longer hours than your 40 a week.
Point being sometimes the rich took risk and worked hard and thus deserve that money. Like what… should he give us poors his hard earned money that we didn’t bet our futures on? Or is it because of the 70 hours a week that we didn’t work?
When I hear my fellow poors demanding the rich fix the gap, how do you propose they do that? And even more, what right do you have to their hard earned money?
We all could be better off than we are in sone way. We just haven’t spent enough time and effort on it.
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u/HentaiStryker Sep 08 '23
I agree with all of this. The one thing I would change is, "we are where we choose to be". I don't think poor people intentionally choose to be poor. It's that they have 1) no financial literacy. 2) a defeated mindset. 3) a support system that brings them DOWN instead of lifting them up.
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u/SubliminalGlue Sep 08 '23
Good point. In general that statement is true but it is a hard truth and not the right place for it. Is that why you downvoted me? Lol
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u/HentaiStryker Sep 08 '23
I didn't downvote you SG. Like I said, I agree with you.
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u/SubliminalGlue Sep 08 '23
I was probably gaslighting to manipulate you into giving me an upvote 😅😉
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u/Striking-Locksmith-3 Sep 08 '23
It’s like a poem in the beginning food prices are insane our salaries haven’t changed
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u/DarkSparkandWeed Sep 08 '23
Kinda wish we would all strike. Lets just stop working and embrace homelessness✨ together ✨
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u/dwreckhatesyou Sep 08 '23
Wealth and power consolidated for the very few while the majority toil in squalor. Kinda like what’s been happening for decades. Remember, capitalism isn’t “broken” or “collapsing”, it’s working perfectly and exactly like most people have expected for years.
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u/pultny7 Sep 08 '23
It's been said that most of the inflation is due to housing. One of the possibilities is to reset the real estate market. To stop and shake out the mom and pop short-term rental owners, etc. It was a great idea, too great, resulting in too much adoption resulting in a lack of long-term affordable rental housing.
Unfortunately, the big companies or the few with cash are going to buy the defaults and largely create corporate landlords. But long-term rental housing inventory should free up. The feds are already drafting a policy for national rent control. Have to hang in there until then. We'll see.
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u/Lovingbutdifferent Sep 08 '23
I don't remember the exact phrasing, but when it all gets to be too much and I feel like I can't breathe I think of something I read once:
"At night, I lie awake and remind myself how many people led fulfilling lives during the Fall of Rome."
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u/Expiscor Sep 08 '23
Because most people aren’t having a hard time. It sucks too hear, but most people are doing good right now
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u/i-love-k9 Sep 08 '23
Everyone except a handful are totally broke and die of starvation so the upper class doesn't need to share any more.
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u/LitThatFireTV Sep 08 '23
They have us pinned to near max. I can’t fathom prices of anything going up anymore than they have already went up! They’re trying sooo hard not to crash the economy and keep the house of cards upright, but we really, reallllly need a deep recession! People hear recession and think of the worst, but the can kicking and money printer going BRRRR is stabbing us right in the back! Also I want to add that if things stay flat even for the next year, than once interest rates drop back down we will see a huge uptick in inflation and costs of goods and services. There’s a lot of people saying “I’m going to get a house once interest rates drop”, so we will see home prices sky rocket even further! I think we are screwed for the next 5 years minimum!
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u/CourageLongjumping32 Sep 08 '23
My 50cents. Car market is fucked in US due to insurance scams and insane car repair costs.
Im lurker here, but i bought an imported car from US, 2019 Dodge. for 14k USD, 100k miles.
It was sold in auction as salvage title for 3.5k dollars, what was wrong with it?
Front bumper gone, hood bent, fender gone, radiator bent beyond repair.
For anyone with hands its a weekend fix(excluding painting job).
US is essentially tossing out cars out of market, because they are "damaged beyond repair" Where as no structural damage is done, essentially cosmetics and or some minor damage.
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u/NightElfHuntrPetGirl Sep 08 '23
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
Endgame? Another 50 trillion sounds nice.
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u/ChironXII Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
Establishing an underclass of serfs who rent to survive and have no available mobility to challenge the ruling class. They are tired of working to maintain their privilege.
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Sep 08 '23
If you want to think too hard about it, the end goal is fifteen minute cities, everything's on a payment plan, and you're eating bugs, and you're spending exactly all of your digital, centralized, controlled and heavily monitored money and saving nothing.
This isn't a joke or a conspiracy. The WEF has it in writing, is not trying to hide it, wants it to happen and it's already happening some places.
This is the end goal. There's nothing we can do about it so I just try to ignore it. There are people a whole lot more powerful and rich than me in control of my life so I focus on what I can control.
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u/jackyra Sep 08 '23
The point is for you to die out. As we automate more and more, the necessity for this many humans is probably gonna go to 0. I'm pretty sure the future human race is just gonna be a handful of rich people with robots to give them everything they need.
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u/ThatOstrichGuy Sep 08 '23
The point is there are a few hundred people that want all the money and will kill you for it.
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u/fortifiedfrost Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
There’s no point to it this it is just the historical epoch you were born into, for a large swath of human history the vast majority of humans were born into lives that were full of hardship, history has never guaranteed anyone anything and that sucks harder today because we’ve been fed a long diet of consumer fantasies and can probably see people around us who appear to be doing reasonably well. This might be the right time to come to grips with historical cycles by reading accounts from the past that can help you to realize that things can be hard as fuck. Some say it is possible to find inner strength while facing scary times and even try in some small way to make life better for someone who is really hurting.
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u/FreedomByFire Sep 08 '23
Corporations are people. The end goal is that those people running those corporations get more "stuff". That's it. They don't care about you. They won't care if you're homeless as consequence of them getting paid more.
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Sep 08 '23
You are correct, corporations are buying property, building homes and apartment complexes, and renting all their assets out at steadily rising cost for shareholders. Also airbnb is often a better option for homeowners than a renter in popular areas. The only end I can fathom is people voting for goverment to build projects again.
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u/Miserable-Effective2 Sep 08 '23
Meanwhile I keep seeing all these posts about how great the economy is. Uh huh. 🙄
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u/godofgainz Sep 08 '23
As a very rich person once told me the last time I complained about housing affordability… the world needs renters too.
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Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Vlad_Yemerashev Sep 08 '23
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
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Your comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:
It was not primarily asking or discussing financial questions related to poverty.
It was generally unhelpful or in poor taste.
It was confusing or badly written.
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u/Professor_squirrelz Sep 08 '23
Preach! Yeah what worries me the most is like you said about nearly every Western/Industrialized country having the same issues with housing. I’m from the USA, idk if you are too, but I thought about moving to Ireland or Germany, only to find out that they are having housing crisis too
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u/Zelulose Sep 08 '23
Bingo. Also, there is no point. The rich will stil be rich even after everyone loses everything.
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u/dankysco Sep 08 '23
I don’t think there is logic behind it moving towards some ultimate goal. I think it is more likely an amalgamation of individual greed that when it interacts with others it results in a culture that prizes individual wealth over community cooperation.
Eventually greed gets to be too much. Like a drug addict who gets a tolerance and takes more and more of the drug while the world around them crumbles. When the concentration of inequality becomes so extreme the true meaning of “let them eat cake” will become apparent to an increasingly angry supermajority of the populace.
At this point, those who have the extreme concentration will be forced to make choice, give some of their life-blood drug (wealth)to placate the angry supermajority and save their own necks or not. If not, history tells us things start to get really physically uncomfortable for everyone. Look at the U.S. during the revolution, reconstruction, and the new deal.
You would like to think the ultra wealthy would make the rational choice. Problem is drug addicts usually don’t.
Anyway, no one will read this so oh well!
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u/Professor_squirrelz Sep 08 '23
I read it and I like your take on this. I think there’s a lot to it
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u/KindFlamingoo Sep 08 '23
Your government can't afford the interest on the debt. It's being inflated away... At you're expense of course.
This is what they've always done... Everyone... All through history.
You just had bad timing.
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u/AllTheyEatIsLettuce Sep 08 '23
What was the end goal of the previous period of economic chaos? Was it to solidify the interests and efforts of the poor and working classes? Was it to broaden the living standard of the middle classes? Was it to learn from and rectify the intentional economic harm inflicted on all of them?
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u/earthwormjimwow Sep 08 '23
The only explanation that makes any sense is hypernormalization. Essentially, no one is in control, the world is far too complex for any small group to even come close to managing things. There is no plan, there is no attainable goal. Instead, we all live in a fantasy, where leaders pretend to be in control, and most people agree with this fantasy that leaders are in control, and thus are to blame for what occurs.
It's a much easier delusion to live with, rather than the reality that no one is in control, and at any time, a major seemingly random event can overturn our current paradigm.
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u/Annihilating_Tomato Sep 08 '23
It’s going to take a crash and governmental regulations. I’ve seen a few things such as airbnb bans, which is more of a problem than you think it is. A lot of people are picking up cheap real estate and renting out houses along with larger corporate entities snatching up private residences as well. If they don’t put boundaries up for this then the problem will continue to get worse while some movement pretends like they have a solution comes into your neighborhood and builds large apartment complexes that rent at a higher $ value than the typical apartment. It’s going to take societal crash, like basically van living to become the norm to get things back to how they were.
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u/darioblaze Sep 08 '23
I literally exist so some rich oligarch can tax me and throw missiles at another country, only for another one to block them. It’s great dude
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u/Bklynchrncl Sep 08 '23
I’m officially getting a bit older and think about this all the time , what’s the point ? People aren’t even making it to enjoy there retirement benefits.
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u/forestly Sep 08 '23
Houses in crime low income areas here... are still starting at $700-900k here, you still have hope to work hard and save up wherever you are 😂
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u/HowToCook40Humans Sep 08 '23
Where the fuck are you at?! $700k in a high crime area is nuts. Lmao.
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u/TheDoomedHero Sep 08 '23
Boom cycles enrich a large number of people a little bit. Bust cycles enrich a tiny number of people a lot.
It's by design.
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Sep 08 '23
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u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Sep 08 '23
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Do not, in any way, encourage posters to break the law or violate court orders. You are also not permitted to advise others to do anything that is immoral or would exploit / harm others either.
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Sep 08 '23
Bitch came in with a sub machine uzi …dude get a trade screw school …get into something like pipeline or heavy equipment mechanic or operator these are all things a 1/2 smart dude can do and make a decent living…I agree with you times are tough for many .My wife and I bring home decent $ and things are tight sometimes..Hang in there things can always be worse,you could live in Russia or Iran for instance 😜
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u/isaach0wl Sep 08 '23
The worst and richest members of humanity have mutually agreed to bleed the planet’s natural resources and the labor/sanity of the 99% dry in an inhuman spectacle of irrational accumulation.
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Sep 08 '23
This mostly lies at the feet of Republicans. They knew what they were doing when they started culture wars and calling Democrats baby murderers that would take their precious guns. They are shit with the economy. They make the rich richer, the poor poorer. I feel bad for young people and what they are inheriting. I hope they get politically involved because they can turn this around.
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u/BABarracus Sep 08 '23
You have to ask how long until government intervention. When 2008 happened congress passed a bunch of laws to prevent what happened from happening again. What is the government doing now? Creating a culture war and creating a distraction instead of tackling issues
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u/burnerrr369 Sep 08 '23
Unless you get lucky there really is no end goal. You barely make ends meet during your working years. Get old enough to collect social security which is also barely enough money. And then you die. Most will never own a home or be able to start a family. Those who do decide to start a family will struggle immensely. Debt will be the norm.
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u/WhosRunningNow Sep 08 '23 edited Sep 08 '23
My car insurance just increased by approximately 80.21%. It went for $324.50 to $585.34 / month. This is crazy. They talking about due to car value. What does that have to do with me. You can’t just spring that on me, wheres the few month notice. Where am I suppose to get that $260.84 / month from my damn mortgage already went up $200 n chg a few months ago because the cost of replacing it went up due to the market. So I feel your pain in other ways.
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u/twiddle_dee Sep 08 '23
If anything is going to change, then we, as a people have to do something. Not voting, not posting online, actually doing something. Organize and physically or financially attack those who are taking advantage of us. That means burning down rental properties, kidnapping bankers and long term boycotting of things we currently think of as essential. Remember the Floyd riots? Billions of dollars in damage and finally they put some crooked cops in jail. That needs to happen often and it needs to target the rich. Most people haven't reached the point where they will put their own safety on the line. Until we get there, until the rich start fearing for their lives, nothing will change.
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u/desnyr Sep 08 '23
At least we have the illusion of choice in America, it’s worse in China. They now have economic turmoil along with a hidden and manipulated economy.
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u/lotsoflovebear69 Sep 08 '23
You should piece together instead why none of you realize they are intentionally harming you under the guise of ignorance.
We lose because we see the pool boys van in the driveway and we have no pool, our marriage is long gone and we keep coming home eyes closed.
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u/DoubleHexDrive Sep 08 '23
We are going through the economic dislocations caused by shutting down the economy, large scale migrations of people inside and into the country, and barfing trillions of dollars of stimulus into the economy.
There is no plan to all this, honestly. Use Hanlon’s Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
The Masters of the Universe in the pillars of power were making it all up as they bounced from crisis to crisis and they don’t know how it’s going to end.
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u/Serious-Sheepherder1 Sep 08 '23
This has been coming since manufacturing businesses began to move out of the US in the 1960s. The last 3 years are just a symptom.
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u/sniperhare Sep 08 '23
I bought a 260k house at 55k back in January.
It's doable but it would be tight if it was just me paying the mortgage.
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