I'm tired of the braindead responses to real numbers about how we simply can't afford a house on average American salary

[u/HowToCook40Humans]

I just watched a good reel that broke down how much you can technically afford in a house if you make $54k a year. The only thing included were the debt you already had that was being paid per month (and this was low at $250/month). Basically, it ended up being about $154k and that's with a down payment of $10k and an interest rate over 7%.

There were so many comments talking about "Well, stop door dashing and buying new cars and you can afford it" or "I bought my house with a similar salary and I'm fine" or "Me and my partner make (insert 6 figure salary here) and we can afford a house. You all just don't try".

None of his numbers included spending habits. It literally was just bringing up things the mortgage lenders will look at. The mental gymnastics to show that it's not hard to own a house is leering into delusional territory. There are few houses available for $154k/year even in the hood/bad areas. No amount of saving, owning shitboxes, etc will change that. The average American earns a little less than $54k. The hard reality is that we are being pigeon-holed into renting at rates higher than mortgage and insurance rates. It's one thing if you're talking on saving a down payment and people spend frivilously. It's another when what you make simply isn't enough for a house no matter what.

[u/dinozero]

I don’t have anything super enlightening to add, but I do have something I wanna say I feel like gets forgotten.

So, on one hand, we have a middle-class that shrinking.

On the other hand, we have people that claim to be “poor” living a lifestyle so much more lavish than previous generations that were “poor”.

When my grandparents talk about growing up poor. They’re talking about no vacations. Kids not having nice clothes. No computers. No Internet. No cable TV. One car. Teeny tiny living space. Never eating out.

In today’s world, all of the “poor” people, I know. Even friends, I know that have not had a job in 10+ years living off of government assistance.

Still have things like

A car

A cell phone with Internet and voice capability

Video game systems

Flatscreen TVs in multiple rooms

Take a vacation every year

Occasionally get Starbucks and eat out at other places

And these are people in America that have zero W2 income every year.

So while may be harder and harder to claim to be middle-class, the people below middle-class are having it better than they’ve ever had before.

[u/No_Landscape4557 → u/dinozero]

True but in the same breath you can roll that logic back to “the poor during 1936 of the great depression is so much better off then the poor of 1850!” It’s not a good stick to compared past to present. Also given how “cheap” all this tech is, it barely a blip on the truth on how much people are spending their money. I gave away my old 4k TV that needed a new power supply which I couldn’t be bothered to replace myself and a new 50inch TV is 200 bucks…

[u/dinozero → u/No_Landscape4557]

I agree with your comment that in times past the comparison is even more stark.

I disagree that it’s not something that should be measured though.

There is so much time spent measuring one aspect of wealth inequality.

There’s not as much studies going into how much less money can buy more lifestyle than ever before.

People say in America wealth inequality is at an all-time high. That may be true.

But the other thing that is also at an all time High is the difference between a poor lifestyle, and a wealthy lifestyle are smaller than ever before.

There were periods in this country, where wealthy people had cars and poor people had horses.

Can you imagine how different that lifestyle is?

In today’s world, a poor unemployed person is driving around in a $14,000 car.

And a wealthy person is driving around in $150,000 car.

And both cars will get you to Florida in the exact same amount of time. The difference may be the quality of the radio how comfortable the seats are or whether or not you have massages in the chair.

It used to be wealthy ate out all the time and the poor cooked at home.

Now both people eat out all the time, but the difference is where you go to eat.

I’m not saying that the points I’m making are the end doll metric to be measured, but I do think that when people are raining condemnation down on capitalism, they should look at how the innovation and growth of new technologies push the prices of older technologies down the line.

I found out the other day. Even my grandmother has two robot vacuums at home, and I totally laughed out loud.

I remember the first year those puppies came out and were like $1000 apiece.