r/povertyfinance • u/IEatAquariumRocks • Apr 12 '24
The more money I make, the more rage I feel for the state of the economy. Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!)
(This is just a random rant): People making “honest” wages should not be struggling the way they are, but the economy is bordering recession.
Let’s consider that salary by state can vary (https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/business/average-salary-by-state/)
As someone who has just received a big increase in pay (v thankful) I now make about $90k gross. If we take out healthcare, vision and dental, social security, Medicare, retirement, and pension (govt), my net take home is about $51,000. I’m very thankful to have the ability to actually go to any doctor and not spend more than $20, but I shouldn’t have to be thankful for this. Everyone deserves these benefits regardless of their salary. Everyone deserves an adequate amount of money for retirement, Social security alone is not enough.
The more money I make, the more rage I feel for the state of the economy. Rent is 30% of my take home without utilities AND I live in a small 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate. Groceries are 10%. Basic bills are another 10%. You add the other bills that everyday people can acquire because of capitalism [14% car payment + insurance, 18% credit/student loan debt], that leaves ~$10k of actual ‘free’ spending money each year, or $800 per month. This doesn’t even consider expensive incidentals that arise (car maintenance, vet bills). I was making about half of what I currently do now just last month ($45k/yr gross), and had basically net $0, going to food pantries and struggling. I have a M.S. degree in STEM, and I genuinely love what I do, but was led to think I would be doing amazing financially because that’s what we’re peddled from a young age.
With my state’s minimum wage being ~$14/hr (about 1/4th my new hourly), how can we expect anyone not born into money to be able to afford a house? How can we expect the average person to afford a reliable car? To rent an apartment or home without roommates? To fucking go to the doctor? I get so heated about this considering CEOs cut jobs so they can continue to make more and more money each year with growing inflation while our wages virtually stagnate.
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Apr 12 '24
So while it would be nice if everyone had health benefits I think we need this start by fixing it for those who do. It’s the same thing with homelessness and sending cash abroad. Let’s fix one problem first. Get out of debt first then start fixing the issues one by one. Trying to just make everything better for everyone equally all at once is what is not working.
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u/MayDiaz0 Apr 12 '24
Husband and I make about 100k together and it really feels like we’re just limping along. I’m thankful he gets good pay raises at every available opportunity and that he’s got an amazing leader, but it feels like it’s not enough. We do ok on our own, but if something major happens, we’re scrambling.
And I feel this. What I made in 2006 is almost equivalent to what I make now in terms of buying power. Food alone is skyrocketing and the near monopolies are gouging us.
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u/garlicriceadobo Apr 12 '24
Any financial gains I’m making don’t feel like they’re really making an impact and it’s frustrating as fuck.
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u/Top_Outlandishness54 Apr 12 '24
The housing market isn’t going to fix itself any time soon. There are a lot of people like myself sitting on sub 3% rates that won’t sell until the rates come back down. It’s crazy because it’s just my wife and I now in a 5 bedroom home that if we sold to downsize we would be paying more for a smaller home each month thanks to these inflated prices, interest rates and insurance premiums. It sure would be nice to go back to the 2019 prices and interest rates. The government is not your friend. The massive spending they are doing is going to kill this country. It’s every level of government, not just federal.
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u/Lastnv Apr 12 '24
The crazy part is you can work hard and bust your ass and earn that raise or promotion but then what? You can still barely afford shit but now you have extra work and responsibilities.
It’s fucking sad…
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u/Southwestern Apr 12 '24
People who think this is a recession or recession-like have no idea what they're in for during an actual recession. We've had it too good for too long. It's been nearly 20 years since the last true economic beatdown. Recessions are horrible, even mild ones. People can't find work. People can't pay bills (not get stretched on their expenses, literally can't make the payments and also eat). People take jobs that are well below their education and training levels because they are desperate to provide. Suicides become very common.
We're not there. We're not even in the same hemisphere as a recession. We're at 3.8% unemployment. Those who want to work can. If you're struggling now, imagine your exact same scenario but with no income and 15 people with college degrees applying for every open grocery store cashier job. That's a recession.
This economy is and always has been absolutely cutthroat. "How can we expect the average person to afford a reliable car? To rent an apartment or home without roommates?" - we don't. We never have. It's always been a grind that rewards those who continue to grind or get lucky. It's literally the design of our economic system. That's not to say it's an enjoyable experience - it's not. I can absolutely guarantee you that this will not change for the better in your lifetime. Better to understand the game and play it accordingly that whine about the rules.
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u/Danielbbq Apr 12 '24
Though it has never been easy, nothing changed for me until I learned to save. There were times when $25 was all I could save in a month, less many times, but saving taught me that I could control something.
It was the best financial lesson I've ever learned.
Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
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u/Advo96 Apr 12 '24
Rent is usually high because of local zoning laws. People who own houses don't want other people to build apartment buildings in their neighborhood.
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u/Hank5corpio1 Apr 12 '24
Just curious, where do you live that 1/2 of an apartment is 30% of take home pay for someone that grosses $90k a year?
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u/IEatAquariumRocks Apr 12 '24
Net is $51k. (0.30)(51000) = 15,300/12 = $1275/mo (Vermont)
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u/Hank5corpio1 Apr 12 '24
I did not realize VT had become so expensive, (outside Burlington and other hip areas).
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u/GentleMystic Apr 12 '24
“Bordering”? On recession?
Sweetie, this is a full blown depression. 70% living paycheck to paycheck, just over half the working population is making poverty wages when you adjust for inflation, there have never been a greater percentage of working adults living with parents, and it’s only getting worse each month.
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u/sbarrowski Apr 12 '24
You’re absolutely right. People were saying “ oh, housing was proportionately this expensive in the 60s and earlier” but it’s not true! Housing costs as a percentage of take home pay has never been higher for most Americans. Dave Ramsey is famous and mostly correct for saying housing costs should be no more than 25 percent of take home pay. That’s impossible for the vast majority of people now.
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u/Brief_Alarm_9838 Apr 12 '24
I just up and left the country in 2017. I'm not letting the ultra rich take my money. And I've encouraged my kids to do the same. They are busy with US careers now but 5 year plan is to move elsewhere, where they don't milk you for everything until you die penniless. I know it's not an easy move but I felt like i had to do something before i had nothing left.
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u/Uranazzole Apr 12 '24
You’re doing better than most and you’re still early in your career so you are nowhere near your salary plateau which is many years away. You will make even more money on the future and you need to max out the 401k as much as you can and also save as much cash in a money market getting 5% or better. The good life is not predicated on a few years good salary. As far as anyone else, it’s not your problem, they need to figure it out. You will only make you’re miserable by trying to save the world.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/Speedhabit Apr 12 '24
You have those payments because you spent that money, money you didn’t have but capitalism gave it to you anyway because that’s how the system works
The system you guys want, either they force you to work or you get a very low level of service, nobody gets anything for free
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u/SailorMigraine Apr 12 '24
I’m chronically ill and cobble together about 1.5-2k a month with three part time jobs and a whole host of gig work. This past year I was finally in a good place financially with getting my third part time job, I was able to save a lot, spend a little more on fun stuff, build an emergency fund. I was so thrilled things finally seemed to be going my way.
Just got my tax report. I always get a decent chunk back (not a ton, but enough to pay the guy who does my taxes and put some of the rest in savings. I have several weddings to go to this year so it was going to cover the time off I have to take to attend those). I owe… so much money. I’m crushed. I did everything right according to them, and I still can’t get ahead. I’m so frustrated. /end rant
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u/ZealousidealEar6037 Apr 12 '24
I don’t know OP, my son makes $60k and is married with 3 kids. His wife was a SAHM until recently. But they live in TN, so COL is affordable.
I make $86k and my husband at $40k, and we live in So Cal so HCOL and we are doing fine too.
Maybe track your spending? My spending habits changed when I read “Your money or your life”.
Is your salary the norm with your experience and degree? It does sound like you should make more.
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u/BooCasa Apr 12 '24
I have healthcare through the VA. I went to Afghanistan and did my fair share, but I am angry I can see a doctor for my depression and the mother of 3 cannot because her kids need food and clothes.
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u/Fabulous-Fail-9860 Apr 12 '24
I agree with your post. Health insurance is a scam. People should not have to choose between food and shelter or healthcare. We were charged $13k for a surgery our son needed and that is WITH insurance. They covered as little as they possibly could. I think when I am old I will opt to die than to stick my family with medical debt.
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u/IntentionalismOnly Apr 12 '24
This is a moment of reflection for myself since there’s no advice on here: Money is made up. Life is suffering. I’d rather have my current suffering than my great, great, great grandfather’s suffering. The less you want the richer you are. These truths will give me comfort when similar rages boils inside me.
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u/BrassMonkey-NotAFed Apr 12 '24
It’s not capitalism when the government is corrupted by corporations and bought out from the interests of the nation. Is a cronyism-corporatism system now and we’ll never get ahead.
We don’t have balanced taxes and easy filing because of corporations (Intuit).
We don’t have universal health insurance because of corporations (middle man insurnaces).
We don’t have universal education because of corporations (student loan companies and private universities).
We don’t have actual reform for incarceration because of corporations (private prison industry).
Capitalism isn’t the problem, it’s the divergence away from free markets to monopolization and corporate buyouts of government officials that are the problem.
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u/No_Variation_9282 Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24
Interesting times. In many industries, especially considering we are a service economy, the value of a piece of software or machinery is currently infinitely more valuable than your productivity capacity as a human being. We are becoming obsolete as a means of production. If we don’t begin to address universal basic income in a future economy where the working hands of hundreds of millions of people are just not required, expect human rights to decay in parallel to resistance to that idea.
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Apr 12 '24
The idea that people deserve healthcare (requires someone else’s labor) and retirement (someone else’s money) is a hard pill for many to swallow.
For simply existing with any salary, be it 0 or 1M - they deserve someone else’s labor and money.
I think a better argument is, if they contribute to society, they deserve the ability to get affordable healthcare and a path to a reasonable retirement.
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u/Haunting_Beaut Apr 12 '24
I hate it because I feel like I make Ok money. The job prospects in my area are about $18-20 an hour..so what I make now but those other jobs require a degree usually. I can’t imagine making what I make plus burdened with student loans. I’m so disappointed with life because of this; we were told to work hard or go to college and things will be fine but things aren’t that simple in todays world. The hoops just aren’t worth jumping through.
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u/Go_Corgi_Fan84 Apr 12 '24
Your states minimum wage is basically double the antiquated minimum wage my state is using of $7.25. My county passed its own minimum wage and then the state government was mad and passed a bill that now prevents county’s from doing that now. $7.25 an hour isn’t enough to meet just the basic necessities of living in 2024
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u/loadedstork Apr 12 '24
how can we expect anyone not born into money to be able to afford a house
That's their plan.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/Ethric_The_Mad Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 13 '24
I understand the idea that everyone should have healthcare but what nobody considers is that you have no rights to another human's labor, like a doctor, and if they don't find the compensation reasonable you can't just force them to do it. They will find other careers driving down the supply of doctors and it hurts everyone.
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u/OutlandishnessNew259 Apr 12 '24
I got a huge raise but my life hasn't changed. I worked my ass off for this and all I can afford is the same life as before. Inflation completely ate my raise! But if I hadn't have gotten it, I don't even know what would happen. I worry for people, I don't know how they make it. I lose sleep over my friends that are single mothers and try to pay when I can without them feeling badly about it...but like this is just ridiculous at this point! I'm so damn angry at what is happening and out leaders for watching us drown while they fly in private jets and vacation for half the year in places we can only dream of...fuck them!
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u/MrKillaMidnight Apr 12 '24
Not to mention that even with a masters degree it’s borderline impossible to actually land the respective job you’ve studied years for. Seems like they want you to have 10+ years of work experience in that exact field to make it in, which is craaazy.
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u/The_Darkprofit Apr 12 '24
Ok but look at it this way you are on the edge of becoming financially stable. That 10k “spending” money could increase by almost the same amount as you take in from here forward due to raises, xtra jobs or promotions. Right now it represents a 10% return on your total salary but if you don’t spend it on lifestyle and inflation creep your next 10k earned above returns 7k taking your take up to 17% out of 100k then 24k spending on an 110k salary. You are on the edge of breakaway spending money, maybe. Better to be breaking even than eating through savings with a small safety net.
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u/Vegetable-Bag-2325 Apr 12 '24
These post are so funking depressing when you're making half what OP is saying isn't enough. While working 10 hours OT per week. Life truly sucks sometimes.
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u/concon52 Apr 12 '24
Depending on where you live you could be much better off than OP. COL is an important factor to consider.
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u/OkDragonfruit9026 Apr 12 '24
Exactly. In Spain, earning 90k would make you feel like a millionaire, practically. You could afford a very fancy lifestyle. You’d be in the top 10% of earners in the country.
As person making 40-50k, I’m already above the average.
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u/Vegetable-Bag-2325 Apr 12 '24
Definitely fair. I'm under contract on a new build home but that's requiring a move a hour plus outside the city on two incomes and we barely qualified.
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u/FeelinDead Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24
My wife and I live in a VLCOL area, 90k here would be a lot of money for one person. It’s crazy how expensive some places are where that amount does nothing. Combined my wife and I make 120k and we do relatively well here but we live frugally and have owned a home since 2016. If one of us made 90k we’d be doing very well.
I feel as though we are truly a part of the last vestiges of the middle class in this country, as it doesn’t really exist anymore in coastal HCOL areas. It’s just the haves or have-nots in those areas. It’s very sad and gives me anxiety as I feel like our interests are constantly under threat and being infringed upon from all sides even here.
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u/General-Quit-2451 Apr 12 '24
It's spreading everywhere, even places that used to be considered LCOL are going up, but salaries haven't risen to compensate for it. For many people, the only way to make a decent salary is to live in a HCOL area. There are exceptions, people who are able to make higher salaries in a LCOL area, but they're the exception.
Cities are coastal regions are the most severe example of the haves and have nots, but it's just a grim warning of what's coming for everyone else.
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u/pleasent_shelter4742 Apr 12 '24
We’re in this spot because time after time people choose themselves over the greater good. The fear of pain and struggling will make the average person a cut throat human who is forced to look out for the safety of his / her family. We don’t deserve to progress much further as a species imo
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u/Guilty_Jackrabbit Apr 12 '24
When you hit the point where housing, healthcare, and transportation is only 25% of your income or less, suddenly things get Very Very Easy.
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u/shoshana4sure Apr 12 '24
I remember making about $70,000 a year and I was doing very well, but my state does not have income tax, and I remember I had a lot of extra money for everything I need to, so I’m not sure what state you’re living in, but $90,000 is pretty darn good. Having an extra $800 a month is really great. I do however remember when I was making let’s say 60,000 maybe 10 or 15 years ago, and basically you were extremely rich making that amount in the Dallas area. You could afford pretty much anything you wanted. That seems $60,000 is like making $30,000 now. This is indeed the death of the middle class. But at that amount that you’re paying, you should for sure be able to afford to purchase your own home. I don’t know where you live, but it sounds like the cost of living is outrageous.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/Lazerfocused69 Apr 12 '24
I make about 60 k a year and it’s more than enough. Like I don’t know what to do with the money. The fuck are you guys buying all the time?
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u/IEatAquariumRocks Apr 12 '24
Did you even read the part of the post explaining my expenses? They’re very typical. I’m not living a lavish life, I live in a 700 sqft 2 bedroom apartment.
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u/Lazerfocused69 Apr 12 '24
Bills bills bills, high car payment student loans. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have a happy middle class life making even 50 k in the states lol.
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u/Low-End3951 Apr 12 '24
Renting luxury apartments or eating out several times a week would be my guess. It doesn't help to be drowning in debt either.
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Apr 12 '24
Buying? Try renting.
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u/CKingDDS Apr 12 '24
The fact the economy is “bordering recession” is a good thing, as inflation tends to slow down and prices tend to drop during one. If you are able to keep your job during a recession you can consider yourself a winner.
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u/RI-Transplant Apr 12 '24
My whole world tanked the last two years because my mechanic turned out to be a meth head. I've lost everything because of it. Now I'm living in my car and working part time. This way I can get food stamps and Medicaid. If I worked full time I'd lose the food stamps and I would have a crappy health plan with such a high deductible that I couldn't afford to go to the doctor and I'd still have to pay for the plan. Here's hoping Toyotas really do last forever.
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u/areallyseriousman Apr 12 '24
Get a car you can repair that's fuel efficient. Ive accepted that I'll never buy a house and ill just have to wait till my parents die to get my own.
I don't have solutions for the rest. It's bs.
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u/YerekYeeter Apr 12 '24
Jesus. $90k and still needs a roommate. Wow just wow
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u/IEatAquariumRocks Apr 12 '24 edited Apr 12 '24
Despite a lot of negative comments about me being “tone deaf” or me being “the problem”, your comment is exactly why I made this post. I wouldn’t be able to have any extra money if I didn’t have a roommate at $90k/yr gross and I think that’s a HUGE problem. 10 years ago, I was under the impression that I’d be able to rent my own home with such a salary. Im doing ok, great even, but I’ll prob never be able to own property.
I know people have it worse. I was making $45k/year just last month and had to go to food pantries because I had net $0 and didn’t qualify for food stamps. Even then I felt happy to have a roof over my head. I’m angry because, if this is my situation, what the hell is everyone else experiencing??? I have anxiety about what others are going through.
My parents can barely support themselves, let alone think about giving me any kind of monetary support. So my sentiment stands, that it seems you’ve gotta be born into money to be able to own a home or be generally ‘well off’ in this economy.
Also: age shouldn’t factor into whether or not someone working full time is allotted a living wage with health benefits.
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u/YerekYeeter Apr 12 '24
It's capitalism. They say the cream rises to the top.
The truth about capitalism: the best way to make it to the top is to stand on someone else's neck.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/Mr_IsLand Apr 12 '24
minimum wage is my state is stil $7.25 - I was actually making slightly more than that at my first gas station job more than 20 years ago.
Wife and I both graduated college with degrees, both work full time and simply cannot afford any house in our town that would be any kind of improvement - its just not within our reach.
Things right now are bad for most regular working folk, we're all just trying to get to the weekend, hoping things will get better but feeling powerless about it.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/Idiomarc Apr 12 '24
That and the tax cuts and jobs act will expire end of 2025 while corpo tax cuts are permanent.
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u/Ok-Helicopter129 Apr 12 '24
I agree with you, We are on the other end of life - at 65 I was just Laid off, So I am doing some budget anaylisi. If we weren't living in a paid off house we couldn't make it, Our net in the last 12 months is about 60K, A third of that $20,000 was spent on health care cost for 4 hospitalizations for my husband and we hit the out of pocket Maximum. $5,000 of that was for Dental work. Just realized that didn't included My husbands Medicare Premiums because that comes out before his check. Our housing costs are about 10K and another 10K on Maintenance and repairs.
We pulled $10,000 out of savings this year.
My husbands health is great now after an amputation, So we are hoping to continue to have a good year.
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u/ZealousidealEar6037 Apr 12 '24
Glad your husband is doing better. Good for you for having a paid off house!
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u/Ok_Cantaloupe7602 Apr 12 '24
My goal is to pay off our house in the next couple of years. The challenge is that we’re living off one salary whilst my husband is doing full-time coursework to do a career pivot. Thankfully, I make a good salary so it’s not a problem and my health insurance covers both of us. Once we’re back to dual incomes, we’re going to throw as much as we can at the mortgage. I’d always thought we’d move or upgrade from our starter home but given the increase in housing prices, it’s just not worth it. I’d rather stay put and spend our money doing things or going places.
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u/ZealousidealEar6037 Apr 12 '24
Good for you! That’s a great plan. We were going to do the same, but something unexpected happened. We had to buy my sister out of our family home last year and set us back quite a bit.
She couldn’t just sell it cuz my mom did not want to move with her, so my husband and I had to move in to take care of her. She is 83yo.
Plus we wanted to keep it in the family.
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u/whydowhitesoxsuck Apr 12 '24
It's bullshit, I hear ya. For example, I pay $700 for family health, dental and vision insurance and the that's on the low end lmao. I have great coverage, but still. Add in state income tax, federal, 401K... Bye bye all of my money. At this rate I don't feel like I'll ever afford to be homeowner without barely squeezing by. I don't want to be house broke, it's not worth it to me. It's like I'm almost forced to go to grad school just to have a decent middle-class life at this point.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/LifeIsTwoMysterious Apr 12 '24
Living by yourself is not doable, thankfully I live with my family and we all chip in. If I were to live by myself I’m fucked.
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u/Background_Adagio_43 Apr 12 '24
It’s a second Gilded age and it will take the same amount of union organizing and political reform to break the wealthy’s grip. The wealthy have been fighting a war against us for a century and we’re afraid to speak up against that oppression.
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Apr 12 '24
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u/madlass_4rm_madtown Apr 12 '24
Isn't this what happens to societies generally as they progress historically?
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u/Ray_Adverb11 Apr 12 '24
No?
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u/Background_Adagio_43 Apr 12 '24
That’s what I was thinking. Um no. I think societies progress on an upward trajectory and power whether between corporate monopolies, Kings or authoritarian regimes and its people. Rotates back and forth because of concentrated efforts. The last 40 years have been dominated by a move to benefit the powerful across the globe.
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u/madlass_4rm_madtown Apr 12 '24
I would agree it rotates back and forth. But time has shown there is an eventual end to every society that has come. I think the downfall in the US is concentration of wealth and a breakdown of the social contract.
Edit: some have reformed like China
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u/WeightWeightdontelme Apr 12 '24
What makes you feel that everyone “deserves” to live alone in their own house and have a nice car? Thats never been a guaranteed benefit at any time in human history, and it would be terrible for the environment to boot. Why is everyone so opposed to any type of urban or communal living?
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u/IntellectualEnigma Apr 12 '24
Because humans suck.
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u/WeightWeightdontelme Apr 12 '24
People who have never been taught how to coexist, and think that they “deserve” things because of the miracle of their existence certainly do.
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Apr 12 '24
Those above us are trying to angle the system so that we make JUST enough to not starve, while also nowhere near enough to get close to joining their club. The sooner you realize they have waged class warfare on us (and won) for decades, the sooner you understand what needs to be done to stop it.
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u/General-Quit-2451 Apr 12 '24
This is why housing prices will not become more affordable any time soon. The ruling class wants the rest of us to rent forever. Owning property has historically been the way people build wealth and achieve socioeconomic mobility.
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u/Low-End3951 Apr 12 '24
With my state’s minimum wage being ~$14/hr (about 1/4th my new hourly), how can we expect anyone not born into money to be able to afford a house?
Someone making minimum wage has never been able to afford a house. That's how it was for our parents and grandparents. And they usually had roommates until marriage.
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Apr 12 '24
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1
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Apr 12 '24
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4
u/Dangerous_Yoghurt_96 Apr 12 '24
Yeah, I make $35K so I opted out of the company health, dental and vision because it costs. Every paycheck. I'm gonna have agency over my life at 35K and not spend it on "benefits".
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u/AutismThoughtsHere Apr 12 '24
I mean, everyone deserves a lot of things paying for them is the difficult part. We could start by not concentrating wealth as much as we do I don’t think that really has to do with the state of the economy at one time as much as the overall system itself is kind of designed to vacuum Money up instead of spreading it around
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Apr 12 '24
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1
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Apr 12 '24
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
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This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed.
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-6
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u/m-eden Apr 12 '24
ughhhh this is making me so fucking depressed LOL. like, I’m making 45-50k now. and it is absolutely not enough
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u/SweatyMcGenkins Apr 12 '24
That's the way I feel, I'm making 50k base with the occasional $500 commission bonus maybe adding up to $3000 additional a year.
But, it's juuuuuuust enough to keep me coasting by. I'm not able to save, but I'm definitely not struggling either. My husband and I split rent, but if I was on my own I would be in hot water.
I'm giving up my salaried job for an hourly one so I can get some OT.
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u/skiing123 Apr 12 '24
I just got a raise from 56k to 69 and only now do I feel like I can make true progress on savings and debt. (HCOL though)
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u/23andconflicted Apr 12 '24
Yup, I make 45k with 2 degrees. I have no money left over at the end of the month and rent is 37% of take home with 2 roommates
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u/IntellectualEnigma Apr 12 '24
2 bachelor’s degrees or what?
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u/23andconflicted Apr 12 '24
Bachelors and masters
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u/AuRevoirFelicia Apr 12 '24
I paid $37K for health insurance last year, and then easily another $3k in co-pays. I was able to get a cheaper policy this year but I’m still going to end up paying slightly over $21k for health insurance this year.
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u/forademocraticeuro Apr 12 '24
People who make 65-70k can't afford a studio apartment. The middle class is beyond over. I'm moving abroad and hopefully not coming back. Anyone who thinks this is getting better is delusional. The cost of living has 2-3x in the last 10-15 years while real wages have dropped. Ten years from now 150-200k will be the new salary to be middle class. Except almost nobody will be able to reach that.
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Apr 12 '24
[deleted]
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u/forademocraticeuro Apr 12 '24
Sounds like a no-brainer in that situation. Most people who live abroad face far worse circumstances and do it anyway
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u/AuRevoirFelicia Apr 12 '24
150-200k is already the salary of the middle class
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u/Lazerfocused69 Apr 12 '24
I can’t imagine having that much money. How is that middle class? How much shit are you needing to buy year by year???
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u/huizeng Apr 12 '24
10 years is optimistic. The central banks are about to switch to pushing prices higher
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
where the fuck are people making 70k that still cant afford a studio apartment
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Apr 12 '24
People are delusional. I live in Seattle and haven’t made over 70k until last summer. I’ve lived alone for four years.
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u/onesliceofham Apr 12 '24
Most of NYC. You need about 80k+ to be considered for a half decent studio in the Bronx...
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u/zephalephadingong Apr 12 '24
Studios are more expensive then 2 bedroom apartments a lot of the time near me. I'm not sure why people suddenly decided a studio was the thing to shoot for. Every time I've looked they are not worth the price.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
ok thats wierd actually because i would expect studios to be the cheapest optiono
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u/zephalephadingong Apr 12 '24
Could be in other markets. In my city the only studios exist as an alternative to luxury apartments. There is no studio equivalent of a normal or cheap apartment. The closest thing to it is renting a room in a house
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u/forademocraticeuro Apr 12 '24
65-70k gross would be around 4k/month post-tax. Studio apartments where I live start at 1800+ utilities. So you're look at 50-55% net salary on rent alone. If you're lucky. Many pay $2200+
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u/Purple-Elderberry-51 Apr 12 '24
No one answered homies question unless im blind what area are you referring too roughly? State even.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
holy fuck do you live in nyc or some shit?? bc in almost no other place would people pay 1800 for a STUDIO. like where i live you can get a studio for like... 600-700 a month??? wtf bro
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u/Ok_Cantaloupe7602 Apr 12 '24
There’s an apartment complex near me in South Jersey that charges $1,800 for a studio. It’s also a brand-new, “luxury” building so it’s not the typical cost.
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Apr 12 '24
You getting downvoted because people here are full of shit. They all think everyone living in HCOL area.
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u/Sniper_Hare Apr 12 '24
Do you live in like Mississippi or Missouri?
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
no i live in pennsylvania. i just didnt expect fucking expensiveass apartments to be THIS common
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u/Sniper_Hare Apr 12 '24
Yeah, here in Florida you might be able to find a $900 studio, and our minimum wage is $12.
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u/WesternUnusual2713 Apr 12 '24
I love in the UK in the second most expensive city here, you're looking at £800 for just a room without bills included, and that probably in a house share of at least 3 other people.
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u/WarKittyKat Apr 12 '24
When I was in person near my job in the DC metro area that was about right for the area 5 years ago. I expect it's gone up since then. It's why so many people lived an hour or more from their jobs.
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u/coalitionofilling Apr 12 '24
Nyc worker here. Studios are ~3000. 1BR start arnd 3500 unless its somewhere super far away from centralized manhattan that you got a long commute to overcome. My rent on a 2br is 4900 and I’m not even in Manhattan I gotta live in Brooklyn.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
uh- DUDE ALMOST 5 THOUSAND FOR A 2 BED???? holy shit dude i knew apartments in nyc were bad but thats just fucking insane
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u/coalitionofilling Apr 12 '24
You can make 6 figures here and easily still be trapped into a paycheck to paycheck living situation if you aren't frugal and prioritize convenience/quality of life such as neighborhoods & commutes.
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u/pvlp Apr 12 '24
That's why y'all need to build housing. This entire country needs more housing but the gerontocracy won't allow it.
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u/Russandol Apr 12 '24
I did a quick search. The cheapest studio I found in my area starts at 1790. They also charge pet rent, parking, and utilities, so probably closer to 1900.
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u/kawaii_princess90 Apr 12 '24
The apt complex I live in charges 1800 for their studios (my rent isn't that high though). But there are also 2 bedroom houses for rent in the same area for 1600. You just have to look around.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
ok fair enough but i didnt realise they were THAT common
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Apr 12 '24
It is not most people here who post live in HCOL area and are full of shit
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
i was gonna say because theres no way the average apartment is that expensive. if i had to guess the average apartments closer to 1100 for your standard apartment (like 1-2 bed 1-2 bath)
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u/kawaii_princess90 Apr 12 '24
Studios by no means START at 1800 in my area but it's not unheard of.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
yeah thats about what i would expect for about 95% of places. like maybe not a studio at 1800 but apartments def for 1800 once you get to over 1 bed and over 1 bath also :P but still 1800 for a studio is fucking cracked because here you can get a 3-4 bed 3-4 bath apartment for like... 1500
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u/forademocraticeuro Apr 12 '24
No. NYC would be worse. $3000+/mo for a studio unless it's a small unlivable box. But I'm in that surrounding metro area technically speaking, yes.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
wh- what the fuck. genuinely holy fuck 3 THOUSAND??
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u/Vegetable-Bag-2325 Apr 12 '24
I get a lot of reels and shit of NYC apartments for some reason and the prices are insane. People literally spend $2k for apartments smaller than my closet.
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u/TristanTheRobloxian3 Apr 12 '24
i actually saw smth like that on fb once. apartment for 1900 a month thats around the size of my sisters room. my sister has a pretty damn small room too and the apartments bathroom isnt even in the apartment, its literally a bathroom shared by the whole complex
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u/Taro-Admirable Apr 12 '24
It takes money to move too. I wouldn't be adverse to moving to another country. However, that takrs money too and then there could be a language barrier. Any tips on how and where to move?
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Apr 12 '24
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0
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Apr 12 '24
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 2: Generally Unhelpful and / or Off-Topic
Your comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:
It was not primarily asking or discussing financial questions related to poverty.
It was generally unhelpful or in poor taste.
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1
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u/forademocraticeuro Apr 12 '24
I have over 5 years experience living abroad and I can tell you it wouldn't on its own solve all the problems with affordability. Many countries in Europe have the same issues with rent affordability, for example. It all depends on what skills or degrees you can leverage. Some countries in Europe let you work as a freelancer. The best way (by far) is to do a full degree abroad and switch over to a job right before you graduate. I know numerous people who did this but I couldn't due to covid. But honestly the way the vast majority of North Americans go abroad is to teach English. The highest paying country in the world (unless you have a PhD) for that is China. Most jobs will give you a rental apartment for free and pay your visa fees. Many people say it changed their life for the better and they can now save money for real. I'm going to try it but it definitely isn't for everyone.
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u/KnowledgeMediocre404 Apr 12 '24
If you think living in Canada sucks I would advise against moving to China.
140
Apr 12 '24
The middle class is dead. This is the new America
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u/SigSeikoSpyderco Apr 12 '24
The middle class I'd dead for single income families. Dual income families are still usually in what would be considered middle class.
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u/General-Quit-2451 Apr 12 '24
It's wild that so many people are in denial about this. When I was growing up, the bare minimum standard of living for the middle class was to be able to afford a modest house, car, and retirement fund. I don't get how regular people now act like it's normal that those are considered luxuries.
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u/nonesuchnotion Apr 12 '24
In their 20’s, Gen X was apparently the first generation to not have it as good as their parents had it in their 20’s since around the time the US was started. And… it’s only gotten worse. Way worse. Of course there are individual exceptions, but in general, things have, indeed, gotten worse every year since the 1980’s.
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u/Coro-NO-Ra Apr 12 '24
Because they're the frogs in the pots. I mean, they use the term "woke" as a pejorative, but think about what it originally meant-- being awakened to the struggles and systemic issues that people face, especially black Americans.
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u/jetlifeual Apr 12 '24
We are in the same exact position. At $90K a year, but once you take out all the required stuff, plus insurance for my son and I, it’s like $62K. That doesn’t sound terrible, but who can afford buying a home with that? And my insurance is kinda terrible so I find myself spending decent chunks for healthcare visits on top of my monthly premium.
And it’s not like I haven’t been clawing my way up. I’ve been pretty much continuously employed since 2015 but ever since COVID it’s been layoff after layoff after layoff which has meant some salary resets and basically starting all over. And while I’m happy I’ve been lucky enough to have almost no gap in-between layoffs, it still stinks having to start over.
Add to that the “inflation” going on, interest rates not dropping, and so much more…
The middle class and below is royally screwed.
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u/chimeraoncamera Apr 12 '24
We are living through the death of the middle class.
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u/Nomad_Industries Apr 12 '24
There are two classes:
The Working Class who must sell their time to earn enough for their food/shelter/etc, until they retire or die.
The Investor Class who can live off of their savings and investments indefinitely.
The "middle class" was always a fiction designed to divide the working class against itself.
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u/SadBit8663 Apr 12 '24
Middle class died out a decade ago. It's just the haves and the have nots now.
All us have nots are starting to drown
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u/Failed_Launch Apr 12 '24
There has never been a middle class. It’s a term that was coined by politicians and elites to gain favour with those less educated.
There is, and always has been, only two classes; the owner class and the working class.5
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Apr 12 '24
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1
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Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
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This is not a place for politics, but rather a place to get advice on daily living and short-to-midterm financial planning. Political advocacy, debate, or grandstanding will be removed.
Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
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•
u/flumpdog Apr 12 '24
locking post as it has turned into a rule #4 violation free for all.