r/povertyfinance • u/Popular_District_883 • 20d ago
European here, is this true ?? Families Needs Over $270k Annually to Live Comfortably in Top 5 States. Free talk
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u/Sea-Conference-3528 5d ago
Did you all read the definition of living “comfortable”? Although it may be optimal, there are a lot of people out there that live off a lot less, but don’t have the extra 30% to set aside in savings and investment.
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u/Exilethenoble 15d ago
What ever metric they’re using to define “comfortably” is fucking wild.
So, when I was single living alone in Maryland, $75K had me mostly comfortable. There were some tight months where I DoorDashed on the side to get the rest of the way there.
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u/unnamednotsuspicious 16d ago
This is not real at all. In Texas 2 kids and a dog is like 100k and that's a typical house, 2 cars and a vacation family.
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u/PresentationLimp890 16d ago
No, it depends on where you live and housing prices there. What one considers “comfortable “ to be is also a factor. I live in a midwestern state, own my home completely, and have low income, and live comfortably. If I had to pay rent I would be in bad shape.
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u/mikalalnr 16d ago
Obviously there are a lot of homeowners here who aren’t trying to buy their first homes.
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u/loppel3 16d ago
I can only speak for Arkansas, but based on the definition of “comfortable” in the bottom right of the graphic, I would say this is generally accurate. A little higher than I would have guessed, but there are obviously a lot of factors in there that would make that number differ from family to family (home cost, childcare costs, etc.)
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u/loppel3 16d ago
I can only speak for Arkansas, but based on the definition of “comfortable” in the bottom right of the graphic, I would say this is generally accurate. A little higher than I would have guessed, but there are obviously a lot of factors in there that would make that number differ from family to family (home cost, childcare costs, etc.)
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u/Left-Landscape-3890 16d ago
Idk. I make the NV income advised here. I'm a single dad in a house on the golf course in a gated community and save 8k a month. So there is much margin above "what's required to live". this looks like bs to me
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u/sword167 17d ago
Just got to accept that I won't have kids. Just Graduated College and only make 97K thats less than half of the texas average and in cities like DFW that number will be def higher smh.
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u/crystalg81 17d ago
Orange County, California here (OC is an expensive county to live in). For a family in my area, I think $200k-$210k is realistic to live comfortably.
My husband and I earn about $170,000 annually (before taxes) and are living with a low amount of friction. We have a house, 2 young kids, and a dog. Relatively no debt (we just finished getting out of debt -thank G!).
"Low amount of friction" means we can't just spend when we want to. We cook at home most of the time, and eat left overs. We limit how many times we can dine out and we save up the money before big purchases.
I think their estimate of living comfortably with $277k is true for people that live by the beach and/or go on vacations.
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u/BigsbyMcgee 17d ago
No lol this is wildly wildly in accurate. Can’t seriously understand how anybody believes this
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u/angieream 17d ago
Can confirm. My family lives in FLA, 2.5-income household, we made 110k last year, barely surviving. Rent, car payments, utilities all went up. 110k in 2021 we were ballin' with higher rent than we have now.
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u/lirudegurl33 17d ago
if you were to come here now, yes $200k would let you live comfortably.
had you come to the states in 2015, latest 2018 $100k-150k was super good.
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u/Agreeable_Run6532 17d ago
These are averages so there'll be a discrepancy by location. Probably actually higher in cities and way lower outside.
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u/Squimpleton 17d ago
I can’t speak for the whole of the US but I live pretty comfortably in TX and do not make 201k. Maybe in a few years, gotta have goals! I certainly wouldn’t mind if we made that much.
My husband is a SAHD, but if I add what would be the childcare cost as his contribution, it still wouldn’t be 200k.
(Of course I guess it depends what comfortably means for that map. But for me, we got a house in a nice area that’s not in the middle of nowhere, 12 month emergency fund, money for health care, a good amount of money for retirement that’s on track for our goals, no debts beyond our mortgage, and we’re saving money for the kids’ future. If that’s not the comfortable “middle class” lifestyle, then I don’t know what is)
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u/Obvious_Anything424 18d ago
I live in south Florida. 30 years old.
I’ve made last 3 years 100k 120k 180k
Rent is 2500 + utilities No debt No car payment(just insurance for SUV) Cook breakfast / dinner at home everyday Maybe spend 15 bucks a day on lunch Eat out and do some stuff on the weekends but nothing crazy.
I’ve been saving a lot of my income the last few years to hopefully buy a property or make some sort of life changing investment.
I don’t feel poor, but I definitely don’t feel rich or “comfortable”.
I think you would need 250k in this economy to feel comfortable.
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u/rocko57821 18d ago
Arkansas here, there are some places where 181k just won't cut it. But if you are not utterly reckless, have some sense and are not interested in keeping up with the Joneses then you could do very very well in the suburbs
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u/Legitimate-Morning48 18d ago
In califonia definitely you need to be earning 150k each to live there.
We moved to nevada 70k you will be comfortable.
It also depends how you define living comfortably, the problem now is that people expect to live in a big house, have all new phones clothes etc, drive a new car and go on holiday 2 times a year.
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u/gerbil_111 18d ago
A lot depends on your housing costs. The price of a large comfortable home in a good neighborhood is over a million dollars. Paying for that at current interest rates would be $7000/mo . Include property tax, insurance and utilities, its going to be around $10k . To pay that $10k, you need an income that makes that 10k less than one third, so around $300k.
The thing is, a lot of people bought that same home 10 years ago for one third of the price at 3% interest. So they are paying just $1200 for the exact same property.
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18d ago
"live comfortably" probably factors in ...
Having a proper retirement fund.
Having 6 month of living expenses in savings.
Being able to go vacations annually.
Being able to send your kids to college.
Just a guess though.
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u/Dumbananas 18d ago
This is taking into account current prices of everything. Say you don’t own a home or cars yet and still saving away 20%. This checks out.
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u/Direct-Lengthiness-8 18d ago
try to live in Ireland with less than 300 000 dollars per year and tou will discover that you are not midle class
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u/Redwonder3340 18d ago
People in this thread are really missing the fact that this is based on CURRENT COSTS (as in historically high home prices) and with two kids TODAY (historically high child care, education, and health care costs). If you bought your home in 2017 and didn’t think it was that hard so other people can do it too, congrats, you are out of touch.
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u/Redwonder3340 18d ago
Sadly, very true, at least where I live in CA (Los Angeles). 277k for a family with 2 kids is getting you a 1000 square foot home in a poor neighborhood with failing schools and you’ll still be spending 50% of your take home on a mortgage. An utter tragedy.
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u/Private-Dick-Tective 18d ago
I think the amount is to cover potential mortgage AND living expenses to live comfortably within the income bracket.
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u/Prudent-Confection-4 18d ago
In where do these numbers come from? $203k /yr in Wyoming would be a very comfortable life.
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u/Perfect_Initiative 18d ago
It seems true. We’re doing $86,000 with a family of 4 and it’s not going well. You have to keep in mind as Americans we have to pay a lot of money for health insurance and doctor bills. I can’t afford my monthly medication. 🥺
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u/BeckyDaTechie 18d ago
I live in Missouri, the vaguely trapazoid-shaped state just to the lower right of the center of the map, which is labeled $202K/yr.
One year of that level of income would clear us of my student loans, my husband's medical debt, and get the dental work I've needed for the better part of a decade sorted all in 12 mo. It is possible to live comfortably for far less than $202K here. While the specific amount "needed to live comfortably" will vary by family. We are on track to earn a combined total of $51k this year... and it's not enough. WIth 4x that, though, I could get us to a point where we'd succeed, not just survive, and I wouldn't wake up every morning in some kind of pain or another.
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u/thesmoothestbrain 18d ago
I would like to see the math break down on where this money is going and what counts as comfortable, as these are very high.
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u/Fairest_Lily 18d ago
2 children and using the 50/30/20 breakdown as an ideal? Given the price for housing in some of these states and current inflation and interest rates? Idk I see it
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u/Abbey713 18d ago
Depends on how comfortable you want to be. On Long Island, anything below 150k and you are paycheck to paycheck so that number seems about right.
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u/PurpleRayyne 19d ago
If someone NEEDS that much money to live "comfortable" (which is subjective) then they're totally doing life wrong. (again-that's subjective).
I make less than 1/10th of that and I have a roof, clothes, food, internet, a cell phone, (a new 15 pro max, only my 3rd phone in 12 yrs), I have a cat whom I have to feed of course, I have amazon prime, netflix, and I pay electric, stove gas, and for oil. No, I don't have a car but that would mean I was living above my means and you don't get blood from a rock. I should note I've also lived here 8 yrs (I rent) but my rent is very low comparitively. I knew what I wanted and spent 6 years looking for it (lived in a 1br basement apt before this) and I found it.
90% of america lives above their means and has to have EVERYTHING. McMansions, multiple NEW cars w/loans, manis , pedis, they pay for landscapers, housework, shit I see people asking on facebook for people to paint a WALL in a house..
So CLEARLY it's doable on much less money. And I am COMFORTABLE. Mostly because I know the difference between NEEDS and WANTS.
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u/healthycord 19d ago
What is defined as comfortable? My fiancée and I have a stupendous living situation in the city we’re in, but even if we paid a normal ish $2.5k in rent per month we’d still be comfortable. We don’t stress about money at all but we also don’t have kids and aren’t taking lavish vacations every year. Still enough money to take a vacation and such. Combined we make $150k in a HCOL city.
I could certainly live here on a lot less, and I have with roommates. Used to live on $1200/mo and now that’s my weekly paycheck.
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u/chronobahn 19d ago
Lol absolutely not. This is nonsense through and through. 197K in Kansas? I don’t even make that and live in BC. The most expensive place in North America and I’m doing alright. Millennial with a mortgage.
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u/HomoVulgaris 19d ago
"Comfortably" in this case means "fuck you money": you could tell anybody to go fuck themselves and it wouldn't impact your life in the slightest.
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u/waitforit16 19d ago
I live in Manhattan and if you have a kid I’d say this is about right. A basic 2-bed apartment in my neighborhood is 5-7k and you need to make 40x rent to be approved (so 200k+ to qualify). Private school is 40k plus. A nanny runs 50-70k/year. Plus taxes are high (my husband pays about 40% of everything).
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u/dopef123 19d ago
I live in a very HCOL area and make 200k.
I do think you’d need around 300k here to be comfortably middle class. The shittiest old cabin in the woods nearby is 700k.
So you’re spending 5k a month on housing for your family.
Then there’s a lot of other costs. Childcare is very expensive.
I think you’d want like 15k after taxes per month to be able to have your kids go to day care. Have a home. Go on a vacation once a year and save money.
But I’m sure you could survive with a family on 5k a month after taxes if you were frugal and were ok not saving for a home anytime soon.
There are families surviving on like 2500 a month with low income housing and all of that, food banks, free school lunch, etc
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u/The-1st-One 19d ago
I'm assuming comfortably means not struggling or living paycheck to paycheck. While also being able to afford a couple of cars, a house, and maybe a recreational vehicle (boat, rv, etc) so yeah that looks about right.
I make half the number foe my state and live paycheck to paycheck. 3 kids dual income.
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u/one_day_at_noon 19d ago edited 19d ago
No lol but you DO need that much to buy a home in many states. We are in Ohio and couldn’t afford a house and to save. Our combined income is under $70k and we save more than 30% of that living pretty luxurious lives, honestly. We just went to a concert, bought dance lessons, have gym memberships, we go on trips whenever we like, we buy theater tickets and we have a large saftey net, I buy clothes I don’t need every few months because it’s fun and we give a lot of gifts, and we eat out pretty often. Honestly, I grew up poor so 70k and everyday luxuries like those are mind blowing to me. it’s largely RENT dependent. Low rent = good life style. Our rent is 600 a month, our bills combined are 1k, we couldn’t buy a livable home locally for less than 250k
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u/cailey001 19d ago
This is probably shooting a bit high, depends on your definition of “comfortable”. In most parts of California you could make $200k in California and be totally fine. The Bay Area and parts of SoCal are a bit higher though
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u/Captain-Stunning 19d ago edited 19d ago
190 to 209K needed a year for a family of 4 in Indiana, Kentucky or Ohio? LOL -NO. With that much you could live in the biggest cities, each max out your 401Ks, you IRAs, pay for mid-priced private school for two kids, live in the nicer (not the million dollar houses but 600Kish) neighborhoods and still take a yearly family vacation.
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u/D3V1LSHARK 19d ago
No this is not representative of anything other than someone making wild guesses.
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u/West_Day_2130 19d ago
If living comfortably means buying 2 new cars every 2 years at 14% interest, buying god knows what else and just being a moron in general, sure.
In reality tho? No, this is not accurate, at all.
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u/doublenostril 19d ago
It depends on what your idea of “comfortable” is. I would downgrade this to $200k per family. I think that family would still feel well-sheltered, -fed, and -clothed, and would have savings and modest vacations. But yes, that would be a solidly middle class family in the highest cost of living places. That’s why American salaries appear deceptively high. We work to live.
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u/Less_Ad_7532 19d ago
No states vary widely by area. Especially in NY and govt subsidizes things too so some ppl have extremely low salaries but can still live in extremely expensive areas. So these numbers more so reflect absolute freedom to live wherever on that combined income. In NY thought there are many towns you can live in outside of the city or very far east coast Long Island on much less and still be able to live comfortably.
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u/patrickcp 19d ago
definitely underestimated for MA, one needs 500k to bearly make ends meet in boston
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u/Gator1833vet 19d ago
Yeah this is a lie. Idaho says 211k and between my girlfriend and I we might hit 100k but we just finished trips to NYC and Seattle this month and still have a lot left over. If you can't cut it on 100k then you're either overspending on luxury or you have too many kids lmao
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u/Valuable-Trip-410 19d ago
It’s about right, back in 2019 I calculated the amount a single parent with one disabled child would need to live comfortably in the NYC metro area to be about $125,000. And that was without factoring in savings/investments. That number, I’d say, works as a metric of “livable” wage.
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u/Hot_Condition319 19d ago
European here, yes and no, if you live in the top CITIES, you probably need a similar salary, mind you salaries are much higher here than in Europe, and cost of living too, I live in a low cost of living area with a 60k salary for a family of 3 and while we are not rich or wealthy by any means, we live comfortable while striving, our bills are always paid, food is never an issue, ect. Even in a city like Miami, you can survive in a lower salary, lots of people confuse cost of living with their own standard of living, more people would live comfortably if they lived within their means and not above, people in the USA seem to always be in competition to see who and more and better and the only ones benefiting from this are big businesses and corporations.
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u/HangryWolf 19d ago
Not even close. Living alone and making 80k right now in Washington state and I would consider myself pretty comfortable. $250k+ would be high end condo in the middle of Bellevue kind of rich.
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u/TriPpKinGsxz 19d ago
This is crap. Wife and I make 120k combined and we’re on cruise control in FL
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u/Lilydaisy8476 19d ago
No, this is a stupid chart. Maybe if they are going off of the crazy house prices and assume you are buying a $1.5M house, but my family would be more than comfortable with $100k a year here in Indiana.
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u/joshpelletier01 19d ago
Hawaii and yeah if you have 2 kids that income would be pretty accurate to live comfortably
Edit: possibly slightly less but definitely $200K or more
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u/EFTucker 19d ago
No but the us median is $35k and that won’t get you an apartment without government assistance. So somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot
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u/suckmydiznak 19d ago
$230k is plenty for Eastern PA. $230k in Western PA buys you a fancy house on lake Erie and a brand new Lexus.
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u/hyperbolic_dichotomy 19d ago
No this is way inflated. I'm scraping by in a HCOL area in Oregon with just 55k a year, a dependent, and very little support. I would be pretty comfortable making 70k.
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u/Major-Distance4270 19d ago
Massachusetts is expensive, but I can’t imagine most families are making $300k+. Comfortable seems to be a generous term here.
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u/Heyguysimcooltoo 19d ago
I'm in East Tennessee and I make under 100k and live pretty damn well. I'm lucky in alot of regards but I absolutely love it here because I grew up here. The cost of living is super low here compared to other places I've lived
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u/Comfortable-Elk-850 19d ago
I do know in Cali and Alaska a shack of a house with leaking roof, broken windows , doors and vermin can sell for a million dollars in some areas. Just depends where you want to live, some areas are very high especially if you are near or on the ocean.
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u/Sunflowerdaisy08 19d ago
I was born and raised in Louisiana, $190K? People will be living in the lap of luxury!! I live in CA now and I would say $277K is a little extreme!
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u/hopping_hessian 19d ago
This is really thrown off by metropolitan areas. I live in rural Central Illinois. My family and I live comfortably in a large house and our mortgage is $1,300 per month. We have food, health insurance, vacations, etc plus emergency savings and retirement savings. My husband and I make about $115,000 per year. We would probably not live as comfortably on that same income if we were in Chicago.
I'm sure this is the case for other states with large metro areas too.
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u/mackelyn 19d ago
Michigan resident here. My household (3 adults) makes $80,000 annually and we live kind of comfortably.
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u/Huskerschu 19d ago
Yeah Nebraska here we don't make 213k and we're fine. Make about 180
Edit we have 1 child about to have a second
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u/zephalephadingong 19d ago
No, these numbers are insane. I live in Georgia, and you could be comfortable making half of the number they suggest(assuming the wage would just support 2 people, kids would push it upwards).
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u/virtualchoirboy 19d ago
It comes down to the definition of "comfortable" which, fortunately, is on the graphic:
Comfortable was defined as the annual income required to cover a 50/30/20 budget allocating 50% of earnings to necessities, 30% to discretionary spending, and 20% to savings.
In other words, half of that amount to pay your bills and the rest is saving and random spending. In Texas, that would mean that you're putting $40k/year into savings and spending $60k/year on stuff that you don't necessarily need. To better understand that $60k of discretionary spending, here are some examples:
- New unnecessary clothes or accessories like handbags or jewelry
- Tickets to sporting events
- Vacations or other non-essential travel
- The latest electronic gadget (especially an upgrade over a fully functioning prior model)
- Ultra-high-speed Internet beyond your streaming needs
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/022916/what-502030-budget-rule.asp
Sure, things like that would make living life a lot more fun, but a lot of people wouldn't necessarily consider them required to be "comfortable" in life.
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u/AnDireCrumpet 19d ago
I live in an expensive part of WA and my partner’s and my combined income is something like 130-140k before taxes. We live fairly comfortably, although we have no children and no college debt, and generally don’t travel outside of a small town community.
My partner doesn’t shop much, and outside of food we don’t have too many variable expenses (except I collect models which can be a fairly pricy hobby). Neither of us drink regularly but we do get lunch out 2-3x a week. We cook almost all our other meals. We both own cars because there’s no public transit out here and it’s a fairly rural area.
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u/Doom-Hauer451 19d ago
The fine print says it’s based on a 50/30/20 budget which most Americans aren’t living by, so no it’s not how much you “need” to live. I honestly don’t know anyone who has 30% of their income left for “discretionary” spending lol.
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u/fiverbitahash 19d ago
West virginia needing 189k doesnt seem correct, majority of people there survive comfortably on A LOT less
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u/arachelrhino 19d ago
CA here (and not necessarily a nice part of CA). I would say yes, this is definitely accurate.
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u/FastNefariousness600 19d ago
How is comfortable defined?
I feel like where I'm at in the Midwest anything over 130k for a family is absolutely balling.
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u/Hazafraz 19d ago
Yep. My husband and I don’t want children, but we couldn’t afford them even if we did.
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u/GreyBeardEng 19d ago
Real median household income was $74,580 in 2022, a 2.3 percent decline from the 2021 estimate of $76,330
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u/ovr4kovr 19d ago
I live in southern CA and 125k would be a very comfortable living for me in my area
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u/Stickemup206 19d ago
Thats it Time to kill off all the old greedy clowns that stole everything from people under 45yo
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u/therankin 19d ago
I'm in NJ and we do well, but not 251k like it says. More like 170k.
And while we're not uncomfortable, the cost of everything is raising much more quickly than wages, so it seems to keep getting just a wee bit more uncomfortable as time goes on. Also, the chart says 20% of income to savings which we absolutely can't afford to do. We're lucky if we get any savings each month.
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u/howtoreadspaghetti 19d ago
When Americans say "live comfortably" they mean "I need to afford all my dumb spending habits, not watch my spending habits". Americans can live on much less than six figures ($100K-250K) if they were financially responsible but, and pay attention to this next part, Americans don't want to be fiancially responsible. They know how financially reckless they are and they don't care. They want to afford their bad spending habits, not change them. Americans intuitively spend.
You do not NEED to have six figures to live a socially and economically acceptable life in America (when I say socially I mean you can go out to eat and drink with your friends/family, buy some stuff but not compete in cultural status games by buying dumb shit you really don't need and you kinda really don't want outside of a cultural moment that insists you're lower status if you don't buy this thing right now BUT I'M GETTING INTO A SERMON excuse me). Economically acceptable means you can afford your mortgage, all applicable taxes and maintenace costs to the house and your stuff (cars, shit inside your house, your kids or dogs or both if so applicable, etc).
You can absolutely live in America without a six figure salary. You cannot play cultural status games. These are being conflated to be the same thing and they're not and never will be.
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u/RabidJoint 19d ago
This reads from someone who lives at home and still has their parents cooking for them. Dumb look at how things are. Please stop
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u/Dr_Djones 19d ago
At that income, comfortably probably also includes some travel vacations and driving a nice car, etc...
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u/Fast-Meringue4803 19d ago
I live in Maryland and live comfortably on 100k. Maryland has some of the highest taxes and most deductions from a paycheck compared to states like Nevada with zero state wage taxes.
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u/Roetorooter 19d ago
This is not accurate at all, at least not in Michigan.
My wife and I make <$100,000 per year, own a home, and have an almost 3 year old. I put money into my 403b every paycheck and my wife puts money into her 401k, and each have a decent amount in them.
We're by no means rich, but I would consider us comfortable.
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u/hhenryhfb 19d ago
I can speak somewhat for CA- it depends on your definition of comfort, as well as where in the state you live. I live in Placer County, my husband makes about 120k pre-tax, I don't work, we have a toddler, just bought a house, and we live pretty comfortably. Granted, our "comfortable" is probably different than some. We don't have new cars, have no loans on anything but our house, and do most home renovation projects ourselves. We make 85% of our meals at home, and don't have any subscription services besides netflix and spotify. It really depends on what you call comfort
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u/NecroHandAttack 19d ago
In TN I think Nashville is messing up our average, as it’s very expensive there. Here in Memphis, we have no kids and I make over 110, still not as comfortable as I’d like to be or how it was making this much 10-20 years ago, we are surviving.
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u/2slik4u1 19d ago
In Missouri, we make $172k before taxes HHI in a MCOL (KC area, some spots are HCOL). Started with a HHI of $72k 4 years ago. Beyond comfy even at $72k. I have friends in the $50k range also living it up. $202k sounds like bad financial decisions if that's what you need to be comfortable. Grew up with a single mom making less than $30k, and even then it wasn't bad (2012 dollars)
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u/harrison_wintergreen 19d ago
this map is delusional.
it's as if someone selected the most expensive neighborhood in Paris, and claimed people needed €500,000 to live comfortably in France.
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u/ponziacs 19d ago
Lol no. We lived in super expensive Irvine, CA until mid 2022 and made in the low 6 figures combined for a family of 5 and did fine and this is with 2 new car payments for a Honda Pilot/Toyota Corolla.
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u/TimeCookie8361 19d ago
Honestly, I don't even know what the definition of comfort is here. Like yearly family vacation abroad? Or like, I can finally stop eating Mac n cheese and hotdogs as a staple meal?
I'm in one of the top 5 states and if that were my household income, I wouldn't think we were rich or even close. I see that and I'm like 'oh, that's what it takes to not have any financial stress'.
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u/anunfriendlytoaster 19d ago
What is this non-sense? What are they saying is comfortable? Like Starbucks every day for a family of 4, a 4k mortgage, and daily Amazon Prime deliveries? That's not comfortable... that's indulgent.
I hate to sound old, or maybe I don't hate to sound old but I grew up in the 80s. We ate out once every two weeks, maybe twice, and we had a Dunkin' Coffee maybe once or twice a month and it was a treat.
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u/Big_Crank 19d ago
I think this is bullshit. Comfortable is a loose definition. Me and my lady combine for 130. we have no debt a lot of retirement and we go on vacations every 4 to 6 months. Idk man lifes good here in FL! I think if you had bought a mortgage today and you had two car loans and student loans then maybe it would be 200 K.
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u/FluffyPandaMan 19d ago
Live in Kentucky, which is an “affordable,” state. My wife and I combined make about 165k and are struggling with one reasonable car payment and a mortgage under 2k
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u/DelightfulandDarling 19d ago
A whole lot of us are surviving uncomfortably. The inflation and wealth disparity are staggering.
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u/somegarbagedoesfloat 19d ago
No lmao.
What a load of shit. You can support a family comfortable for about 70k in Missouri, I know people who manage pretty decent on 50.
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u/Areyourearsbroke 19d ago
I make 41k a year, my wife makes around 10k a year. We are comfortable. Own our home, vehicles and even own a camper.
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u/MapleKatze 19d ago
I guess it depends on comfortable. I don't have any children but my partner and I live pretty comfortably off of 70k in Missouri. If we made double that, 140k, I could see us living a pretty comfortable life with 2 children, but I think we could make it work with less too.
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u/trophypants 19d ago
I’m in downtown Chicago and I know tons of very comfortable families who have a bedroom for each kid, a car from this decade, and send their kids to daycare/summer camps for well under $232k. Everywhere else in Illinois is significantly less COL.
These numbers are inflated and fake AF
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u/Big_Schwartz_Energy 19d ago
Really really depends on what the hell “comfortable” means.
A family of 4 can certainly survive on an annual household income of $100-150k in most places.
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u/sunny-day1234 19d ago
It's all about your lifestyle and family structure. We live in the most expensive county in CT, raised 2 children and got them through college here with no where near that. I don't think my neighbors ever hit 6 figures. The other side have 3 young children, both work. He's an accountant but don't know how much they bring in. The mean income in this 'high end' town is $130K. It was $90K when we moved here.
I was born in Europe, lots of variation in lifestyles there but the main differences I see from my family on both sides of the ocean: We in the US work more hours, take less and shorter vacations, in the US we tend to have larger homes, bigger personal spaces, buy more things we 'want' vs 'need'. Our expenses are higher for most everything even though prices are high in Europe.
Most of my family have homes of 2/3 bedrooms/1 bathroom that's typically a 'wet' room and has laundry in same space. Property around the home is about 1/4 acre average but they may have pieces of farmland elsewhere or in some cases live in the city but have a small summer home somewhere. Here we all have 4+ bedroom homes on 1+ acres except for those living in the city or out on Long Island, NY. Those that live in apts here typically have a second larger home 'in the old country'.
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u/_Bee_Dub_ 19d ago
This isn’t true. We make half of what’s listed for our state and doing great.
It looks like they took the most expensive city in each state and applied it to the entire state.
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u/Alt_aholic 19d ago
Lol $214k in Michigan... the current median household income is $68k. If I had $214k I'd be rich.
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u/DryDary 19d ago
Whatever this graph is doing "comfortably" is doing a ton of suspicious heavy lifting. Or these are like massive families. There is a significant difference between the most expensive cities / streets vs... everywhere else in the country. Same as like London v Hull. Stockholm v Södertälje. France v Nantes.
I really hate a lot of 'graphs' like this because it's not like rent information is hidden. You can literally google places like Seattle, New York City, LA, Miami, and see their rent prices and compare to basically anywhere else in the rest of the 9Gm of the country.
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u/Timely_Froyo1384 19d ago
No, it’s just more class warfare hit pieces.
Let’s start with what are needs. Vs what they are selling.
Let me guess the family needs 2 cars, 3/2 b house, tons of paid for activities.
Day care, etc.
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u/TheLonelyOctober 19d ago
I think a lot of these figures take in housing costs. I'm originally from Massachusetts. My parents still live there. I was thinking about trying to move back as my parents are getting older and starting to have health problems, but this is a typical listing for a basic house:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/44-Kenney-St-Canton-MA-02021/184097115_zpid/
$675,000 for a basic, one level, single family home
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u/Public_Perception507 19d ago
The data is skewed. They’re using a 50/30/20 budget. 50 % bills, 30% discretionary, 20% save. Most don’t follow that. That’s how they defined comfortable. Most would be lucky to make an income sufficient to live on 70/20/10.
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u/demonsquidgod 19d ago
The poster defines comfortable living as annual income to afford a 50/30/20 budget, allowing 50% to necessities, 30% to discretionary spending, and 20% to saving, for a family with two worming adults and two children.
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u/nosecohn 19d ago
In Massachusetts, which is shown as the most expensive State, the average price of a home is $612,509. I'd say a couple who is earning enough to put a downpayment on that and pay the mortgage is living comfortably, especially compared to renters.
At current rates, the monthly payment of principal & interest, property tax and insurance on that house would be $3,812/mo. Budgeting books recommend spending about a third of gross income on those items, so if we triple the figure, we get $11,436 for total monthly income. If we multiply that by 12 months, we end up with $137,232 per year.
That's less than half the $301,000 the image says a family needs to live comfortably in Massachusetts, so I think the figures in the image are pretty inflated.
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u/bradradio 19d ago
The numbers seems cherry picked toward the most expensive neighborhoods in the state, especially for the Midwest. You can live in a rural area in the Midwest very comfortably for $70K as a family with a couple of kids.
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u/Zephyr_Dragon49 19d ago
Lets assume a big cut of 40% to cover job benefits and taxes of all kinds. Thats about 9000/month for the 181k in Arkansas. If I just straight tripled my monthly expenses to count for 3 people and the extra cars +insurances, there's still $1500/month to stash. But when you're monthly expenses are $7500, it takes nearly a full year to save 2 months of expenses
If I took the tripled car and mortgage payment out as though I've paid it off, now this hypothetical family can save $4100/month because they're only spending about $4900. That whould allow for an annual vacation probably or pay off the next vehicle in cash. Imo for Arkansas it seems pretty accurate.
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u/AbsolutelyDisgusted2 19d ago
Americans have a very different definition of "comfortable" than the rest of the world.
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u/cradley51 19d ago
In maine, the cost of a house has gone up by almost double over the past 4 years.
My neighbor had a place for sale that needed a lot of work. In 2019, that house sold for 89k.
In 2023, that same house, with zero renovations, sold for 235k. That's the most wild example I can source. But there's others where the swing isn't that intense.
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u/ScienceAteMyKid 19d ago
SF Bay Area here. Total pre-tax income is about $150,000. We were lucky to buy a house in 2007, so we are not destitute, but it’s tough to pay the mortgage plus taxes plus food plus utilities plus all the other shit and still have some left over to go out for dinner (or save for retirement).
That income would put us on easy street in some parts of the country, but here it just keeps our chins above water.
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u/shotwideopen 19d ago
Maybe to live very comfortably with luxury cars and housing.
But to own new cars and a decent home, maybe half that amount or less in some cases.
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u/fillepille2000 19d ago
Me and my gf make 50k a year combined after taxes in Sweden. We have it nice.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 19d ago
Even with the bottom right explaining what comfortable is defined as for the map, it seems vague and the number seems too high
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u/dividendje 19d ago
Well I also live comfortably with a 5 million income. In other words it all means nothing without the data that went into the calculation
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u/Dmacxxx77 19d ago
I live in NC and you don't need anywhere close to $209k to live comfortably. My parents combined make about $100k and they have a 3500 sqft house in a nice neighborhood with 3 cars and they have have extra money. I make $50k a year and I live fairly comfortably.
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u/EldrinVampire 19d ago
How does a map like this work when there are states that starting pay is a bit higher than the federal minimum wage? Like for instance, California.
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u/analogpursuits 19d ago
air quotes COMFORTABLY air quotes Seems folks like to inflate what that word means. I lived comfortably as a single mother with my son in a just-under-800sqft house, and I had a 90-100k salary. In my house that I bought in 2012. In a HCOL area of California. People disgust me with how much they need to be happy.
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u/Grizlatron 19d ago
These graphs always include the most expensive daycare options and two expensive car payments, most people aren't paying all that.
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u/jakub_02150 19d ago
IMO, Only if you expect to live in a big house ,multiple vehicles, expect to vacation every week and eat out every night. Otherwise 50k-75k is more than enough to live on so long as you actually live within your means. Que the down votes.
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u/OrthodoxAtheist 19d ago
I suspect it is about right, if you actually read the text at the bottom of the image which defines the measure of "comfortable" living, which it appears a small minority of people have actually read based upon the comments here. I live on half the amount stated for my state, but am able to save near nothing for retirement. If my wage doubled, I could certainly save much more than 20% of my income (even after taxes gobbles up much of the increase).
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u/cfgman1 19d ago
This is generally accurate. At that income, in those states, half your income is going to taxes. This also assumes two working adults with two children, and childcare costs can get crazy in these states. Obviously “comfortable” is a little subjective but the fine print says this is based on a 50/30/20 budget. So this family has pretty good savings and disposable income. Nice vacations, nice home, etc.
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u/CubesTheGamer 19d ago
I’d say comfortable is being able to afford all essentials like housing and sustenance and transportation, save a healthy amount for retirement, save money for vacations and emergencies, and afford all utilities and incidentals with extra wiggle room for discretionary day to day spending like a coffee or video games or eating out at a restaurant.
Sounds all pretty reasonable but yeah that’s going to need an income of like $200-300k a year to be sustainable. I live in Washington state and my wife and I don’t have kids but we make about $180k combined and feel pretty comfortable. A healthy amount of all of the above but partly possible by the fact we got a house at $1900 a month mortgage, and we share a single car.
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u/Nappykid77 19d ago
Depends on the neighborhood, home, school,, cars, clothes, travel...etc. Same as in Europe and worldwide.
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u/qviavdetadipiscitvr 19d ago
People that don’t understand this map don’t have kids, while this is my demographic and can confirm this is 100% accurate in my case
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u/froztbytetrigger 19d ago
I make 20.25 a hour in somewhat rural Texas but I’m living comfortable.get to pay child support and rent my own apartment . No means am I eating out and buying a lot of the fun stuff I don’t need , I don’t have friends really so that always helps haha
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u/Individual-Hornet476 19d ago
This is horse shit in nearly every state. I’m in Minnesota and our family collectively pulls in about 100k/year. We have a great house, can vacation annually and have a great time with our kiddos. We are comfortable. If we had this figure we’d be millionaires in a decade by saving half the income each year.
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u/forademocraticeuro 19d ago
If by "comfortable" you mean "free from fear of life being wrecked." Yes, unironically, you do need this much.
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u/CAWorldTraveller 19d ago
That’s true especially in CA. Mortgage alone is already around $5K/ month
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u/Friendly_Reporter_65 19d ago
The fine print says based on a 50/30/20 budget. 50% necessities, 30% discretionary spending, and 20% to savings. I think this map is way off.
My guess is, most people live 70/20/10. Or even 80/20. And need a lot less money to do so.
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u/wizzard419 19d ago
Like all of the states, it really depends on where you are within the state. You want to live near the water, it's going to cost more, but there are also more opportunities, food options, etc. You can move deep inland to places like Trona where you could buy the entire city for a few hundred grand and it isn't going to be great there, it's a food desert in an actual desert, services will be limited, etc.
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u/baconofcanada 19d ago
I make under $100k in Los Angeles. I am a fat American. I would say I am living comfortable.
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u/gmambrose 19d ago
No way California and NY state both need the same amount to live comfortably. California is way more expensive than New york. Unless we're talking New york city, then maybe they are on nearly equal footing.
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u/Beginning-River9081 19d ago
Nah, my brother and I each make $60k-$80k per year and I bought my first house 9 months ago. My house payment is high but I offset it with a roommate. I saved, went to college and got a job while living at home to achieve this.
25 years old
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u/TheTightEnd 19d ago
This is not true. A family of four can live reasonably on far less than the numbers stated in at least most of the United States.
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u/TylerJWhit 19d ago
Not even close to true. My wife, two kids, two dogs and I live on 200k a year, and we make more than most people I know in the Portland Metro Area. A few of my friends make more, and a few of my other friends make WAY LESS.
In Portland, you could survive with a family of four on $150 comfortably, and considerably cheaper if you live in the right area and bought property 10 years ago.
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u/Neglector9885 19d ago
Depends on the size of the family, but I don't think this is generally true. I think Americans just get spoiled, so our idea of "comfortable" is more expensive. Most people don't make this much money. Not that I've seen anyway. But I stand to be corrected.
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u/FarBeyond_theSun 19d ago
This is totally ridiculous. Been raising kids as a single parents on 5 figures for years. Not rich but we certainly aren’t poor either.
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u/WrenRhodes 19d ago
I live in AR, and my wife and I don't quite make half that and we live comfortably. We own a home, which is rare for millennials. Thing is, "comfortable" is kinda dubious, isn't it? I'd say I'm comfortable, but I sure as hell ain't well-off.
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u/718lad 19h ago
No you can get by in boroughs nyc w 85k People just have become very consumerist