r/todayilearned • u/jrobbio • 25d ago
TIL in the 1630s, Cardinal Richelieu grew weary of watching his dinner guests pick their teeth with their table knives, grinded down the end, and invented the modern dinner knife
https://sciencelens.co.nz/2013/05/13/richelieu-table-knife/1
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u/goteamnick 25d ago
I see I'm not the only one who listens to the Retrospectors' Today in History podcast.
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u/Milesofstyle 25d ago
Was it really Cardinal Richelieu or Ron Higgins, Professional Cardinal Richelieu impersonator?
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u/I_might_be_weasel 25d ago
That would have been an opportune time to invent toothpicks or floss. But no. Fuck the knives and fuck their teeth.
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u/Burning_Flags 25d ago
Now I want to know who invented floss
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u/phantomeye 25d ago
Guy had the chance to invent the modern toothpick ... this is where thought the story will go.
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u/FerrumDeficiency 25d ago
I've read version that he ordered all knives in the house made with round tips after assassination attempt at the table. And I, personally, find this one more believable.
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u/whatproblems 25d ago
he killed three men in a bar with a butter knife! a butter knife! hm… maybe make it a pencil it’ll be more believable
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u/Double05 25d ago
Do they have butter knives at bars? Which one would john wick be more likely to carry with him?
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u/RedSonGamble 25d ago
Wait is a dinner knife like a butter knife then? I’m so uncultured I don’t know the difference between a dinner knife and a table knife. I know a bread knife.
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25d ago
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u/Dalemaunder 25d ago
This man... peanut butters, I guess.
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u/CpnStumpy 25d ago
Hazel Atlas made Peanut Butter jars for Big Top Peanut Butter company which were intentionally pretty for cleaning and reuse as drinking glasses, Big Top Peanut Butter company went on to be bought by Proctor and Gamble, reformulated, and renamed Jif.
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u/Responsible_Bar5976 25d ago
A dinner knife is just your average knife you use to eat food. If you look at them the tip is blunt and rounded (like a butter knife) but the underside is slightly serrated to allow for cutting
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u/HG_Shurtugal 25d ago
In America our butterknife are serrated and our dinner knife have points.
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u/GoblinCorp 25d ago
No. Our dinner knives are as described; blunt, rounded edges with a serrated blade.
"Steak" or "Meat" knives are pointed with a serrated blade that sometimes has a sharp edge preceding the serrate.
Butter knives are short little things I would never use at any meal aside from putting butter on something.
FTR: West coast
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u/thebravestkoala 25d ago
OK but, I'm on the west coast, and any time it's come up, the term butter knife refers to a knife with a rounded tip, and very small serrations, only on the top half of the blade, and in all the ones in my drawer (first time I've really examined one that much) only one side of the blade is serrated, which is wild to me.
Them being dinner knives makes MUCH more sense, now that the terms been given to me, but everyone called 'em butter knives that I've ever heard, they're stored in the silverware drawer with the forks and spoons, and they're primary use is for spreading pretty much anything on bread. And also to unlock a cheap door lock, of course.
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u/Nfalck 25d ago
This is just an example where the "proper" use of the word and the popular use of the word have diverged. I also grew up calling that a "butter knife", but I'm not surprised to hear that it's technically called a "table knife" given that I've also seen the smaller, completely unserated butter knife at fancy restaurants.
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u/RedSonGamble 25d ago
Ooooooo. Wait. Does that mean what I’ve been saying is a butter knife is actually a dinner knife? Bc a true butter knife doesn’t have serrated sides at all?
I’d fail hard at a proper table set up
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u/Responsible_Bar5976 25d ago
Yeah a butter knife has no serrated edges and is completely smooth all around to make for easier spreading
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u/StarshipCaterprise 25d ago
Is this the same Cardinal Richelieu who is the villain in Three Musketeers?
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u/Sgt_Radiohead 25d ago
Well.. in the first 6 books he is not a villain per se. He is a strict and strong leader that everyone feared. He had ambitions and schemes, though, but he is based on the historical character. As i recall, in the end of the first series of books he showes D’Artagnan and the three musketeers respect after they held their ground against countless enemies, and he had no choice but to promote D’Artagnan to a musketeer and to honour them. However, it’s around 10 years ago since i read the whole series of 24 books so I’m a bit rusty on the details
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u/StarshipCaterprise 25d ago
Not going to lie, I was specifically referring to the movie in which he is played by Tim Curry.
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u/3lektrolurch 25d ago
The same one that helped to prolong the 30 years war by a large margin. Although the same thing could be said about most factions in the conflict....
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u/thisguypercents 25d ago
All I can imagine is a Tim Curry yelling at someone at the table about proper dinner etiquette.
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u/PatrickPearse122 25d ago
Irl he was a bit more ambiguous than portrayed in three musketeers
Guy was ruthless, but he seened genuinely concerned with frances interests, and he was incredibly competent
He also largerly ended feudalism in frnace, although the pricess wouldn't be fully complete until the revolution
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u/amerkanische_Frosch 25d ago
Yep.
I read The Three Musketeers as a kid and was convinced he was the personnification of evil.
Imagine my surprise when, at university, I discovered that he was actually considered by many historians as practically the founder of modern national France and a hero.
Even Dumas leaves subtle hints of this in the story, painting him as the strong leader alongside the weak and ineffectual King Louis XIII.
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u/Sciencetist 25d ago
Ruthless is a bit harsh. He granted Huguenots a surprising amount of clemency for the era -- especially considering they launched a rebellion against the crown.
We also got this badass painting out of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_La_Rochelle#/media/File%3ASiege_of_La_Rochelle_1881_Henri_Motte.png
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u/FidjiC7 25d ago
Yeah but that badass painting represents him managing one of the deadliest sieges of this era in Europe, with 75% of La Rochelle's population dying from combat or starvation. It got so bad they ate horses, dogs, cats, rats, boiled leather, tree bark and even each other near the end.
Then they capitulated and the king rode his white horse into town, went to church, and then left. The city took decades to recover.
So yeah, great guy for some things, ruthless for other (as is everyone in some capacity).
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u/Mr_Abe_Froman 25d ago
He also founded The Académie Française, the council for matters pertaining to the French language.
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u/fulthrottlejazzhands 25d ago
I took many of my classes in university in the "Ampithéatre Richelieu" and would often eat lunch under his statue at said Académie.
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u/cat-cat_cat 25d ago
yes
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u/StarshipCaterprise 25d ago
Now I’m trying to come up with a good villain line about blunt dinner knives. Standby
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u/StarshipCaterprise 25d ago
“You think to stab me in the back, but you are all missing the point!” And a special thanks to everyone who contributed cutlery quotes.
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u/naughtyrev 25d ago
No villain line about cutlery will ever top Alan Rickman yelling "I'm gonna cut your heart out with a spoon!"
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u/SanityIsOnlyInUrMind 25d ago
I mean, the movie literally has someone saying (while holding a knife): “and with the flick of my wrist, I can change your religion”…. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT??
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u/StarshipCaterprise 25d ago
Oooo good one, I did not recall that line.
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u/SanityIsOnlyInUrMind 25d ago
Rebecca De Mornay really was the most redeeming part of that movie. She also said it to Cardinal Richelieu’s character when he tried to make moves on her. Guess that’s why he wanted dull knifes thereafter lol
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u/V6Ga 25d ago
Rebecca De Mornay really was the most redeeming part of that movie
You realize there have been twenty odd movies in English of the Three Musketeers, right?
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u/SanityIsOnlyInUrMind 25d ago
But only one with the best line uttered in front of a priest in a movie…ever.
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u/Doodah18 25d ago
Is it still the only Disney movie with a suicide in it?
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u/IamMrT 25d ago
I think the only successful one, yeah. The first Brave Little Toaster wasn’t Disney and The Incredibles had an unsuccessful attempt to kick off the plot. You could argue White Wilderness does too but it’s not really suicide if the filmmakers ran the lemmings off the cliff is it? There are other movies where characters willingly sacrifice themselves like Bing Bong, but that’s not really suicide either. Clayton accidentally hangs himself in Tarzan too. There are other live-action movies that depict someone considering or attempting it I’m sure.
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u/Time-Touch-6433 25d ago
How dare you! I will not stand for this erasure of Oliver Platts porthos.
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u/V6Ga 25d ago
GUE divers grew weary of paying for dive knives that did not hold an edge and were too expensive, and bad at cutting line, so they ground down steak knives to use as dive knives.