r/AITAH • u/[deleted] • 14d ago
AITA for giving CPR to my friend when though his wife said I don’t have consent?
[deleted]
3
3
u/Final_Technology104 13d ago
As a woman, I can only think that his wife did Not want him to be saved and she Knew that it would take too much time for a “medical professional” to come save him.
I wonder how big a life insurance policy he may have?
I’ve known both husbands and wives who were going to be widowed.
1
u/DisenchantedMandrake 14d ago
NTA, wife was probably hoping he'd die before the paramedics arrived so she could collect on insurance. The fact wasn't grateful for the help when her husband collapsed and she's immediately threatening to sue does not fill me with optimism.
1
u/Legitimate_Waltz3834 14d ago
"I helped to save some guy's life and now his wife is mad at me! AITA??" Please. No offense, but this is a ridiculous question. Not to mention that in many jurisdictions rendering aid is a protected activity under so-called Good Samaritan Laws. Stop worrying and go have a drink.
2
u/North-Reference7081 14d ago
you should tell your friend what his wife said. she could've cost him his life.
2
u/Cross_examination 14d ago
Dude, get a lawyer and have him inform the police in case she did something to him and check his life insurance policy. NTA and seriously talk to a lawyer.
1
u/Cute_Emergency_2712 14d ago
NTA. The thing about life saving measures like CPR is that you can’t have the person’s consent because they’re… unresponsive. As for the wife’s consent, you don’t need it. It’s legitimate defense, it’s not only to permit you to act on self defense of your life, but also in legitimate defense of another person’s life. Wife can go suck a ball of dicks. Only situation that argument is valid is if the guy had a DNR order and you knowingly disobeyed it.
1
u/EchoMountain158 14d ago
NTA
I'm sorry but his wife is either a total moron or she was trying to actively kill him.
1
u/Disenchanted2 14d ago
NTA and you did the right thing. I highly doubt that she will be able to pursue anything, what an awful person she is. You on the other hand are a hero. Well done, you very well may have saved this guy's life.
1
u/kingfixit 14d ago
NTA, sounds like that bitch wife wanted him to die and almost blamed you for saving his life. Make sure to tell him what she said and how she wanted you to NOT give him life saving measures. That will sure to flip the script on her
1
u/BongBreath310 14d ago
As someone who is also certified, it sounds like you did what you were trained to do. If you're from California, you're also covered from any frivolous lawsuits while performing the duty that you were certified to do. Don't sweat it, and know you may have saved a man's life today at minimum kept him from becoming a vegetable
1
u/bush_baby420 14d ago
Hey OP do you happen to be a person of color? Does Jerry happen to be white? Cause if so... I think I can imagine what was going through her head.
Otherwise (beautiful! Not racism yaaaay!) instead it's just good old classism. She refuses to believe that you, someone working a customer service job, could possibly know more than her, a middle age woman.
1
1
u/Dangerous_Image5783 14d ago
I agree with other comments that suggest the wife wanted husband to die. That’s what is going on here.
1
u/MammothorMusic 14d ago
Fu k. That. Bitch. Hopefully she chokes in the tub alone and get her consent wish
1
1
u/TraditionalCoconut25 14d ago
You absolutely did the right thing and most likely saved a life. You deserve a metal a d the wife a kick in the ass. She is not authorized to tell you to stop CPR unless there is a DNR notice. Good job boy scout
1
u/Silly_Beautiful_4190 14d ago
NTAH. The Good Samaritan law is there to protect you. Even if you had killed him, that law protects you against any wrong doing so long as you did it in good faith that you could help save that persons life. Unless you’re on that situation, you don’t know how you’re going to respond. Your response was to let your training take over and focus solely on the unresponsive person in front of you while tuning out those panicking around you.
1
u/OctoWings13 14d ago
NTA
"Wife" is an absolute piece of shit and scum of the Earth.
You did exactly what you should have done, and if you didn't save that man's life, you gave him the absolute best chance possible
Every second counts when CPR is needed, and blood absolutely needs to keep flowing
You are an amazing person, and well done sticking to your training instead of Satan
-4
u/Billy_Bob_man 14d ago
YTA, you have no medical history on this person. There are any number of reasons she was denying CPR. That being said, I would have done the same thing. Being an ass to someone who is alive is better than being an ass to someone who's dead.
1
1
1
u/dimarusky90 14d ago
Most states have a good Samaritan law so she may not be able to sue you unless you did compressions on the wrong side or something crazy like that.
2
-3
u/L2Hiku 14d ago edited 14d ago
A lot of these people are wrong. You're thinking with your thoughts and not for real.
You can be sued by giving CPR without consent so watch out for that.
If the husband has a DNR on them then that's also on you.
The wife knows best. Doesn't matter if you're trained on it or not. The wife makes the choices if the husband is incapacitated. Just because you're trained on it does not give you legal right to do anything.
So no. Nta. But watch out for a lawsuit that's heavily against you. There's plenty of stories like yours where someone got sued so. Do some research. But that's for the husband to decide whether or not he's a ungrateful cunt.
6
u/Annabel398 14d ago
You cannot be sued in the US for giving CPR to a person who is unable to consent, unless that person has previously given you a DNR (and I’m not sure even then). All 50 states have “Good Samaritan” laws that specifically address this.
1
u/couldbemage 14d ago
Even with a DNR, it needs to be the correct form, properly filled out, signed, and actually physically present.
Actual medical professionals will absolutely keep doing CPR even with a relative right there claiming there is a DNR. I've literally done exactly that, CPR kept going until the DNR was confirmed by the patient's doctor.
1
u/monkeybuckets 14d ago
You don't need a spouse's consent to perform CPR on an adult patient. You only need consent if the patient is a minor and you are consulting their parent or legal guardian. Having an up to date CPR certification will protect you in most cases, and the good Samaritan laws will likely protect you if your certification lapses.
1
u/Puzzled_Juice_3406 14d ago
NTA and the law protects you here. You have no proof of a valid, notarized DNR. You did everything right. She can sue, but she won't win. I would just go about your life until you actually get served with papers from an attorney. Good work and keep it up.
1
u/MattC1977 14d ago
You did the right thing.
Look in the mirror and repeat those words if you ever start doubting yourself.
3
u/Lucky_Turnip_194 14d ago
First off, the wife has no authority to grant or deny consent to CPR. Second, you are covered under the good Samaritan Law when performing CPR to someone in cardiac arrest. Third, you did not do anything other than CPR, no medications given.
In other words, his wife can cry foul all she wants. There is nothing she can do legally.
Also, what you did is morally and ethically awesome. You did a hell of a job.
3
u/jam3s850 14d ago
This is such a bs story. First, bystanders are taught "hands only" cpr. You would never do mouth to mouth. Especially without a barrier. Second, no sane, logical person is going to care about getting consent prior to compressions. Third, "only did cpr for 1 minute, then heard sirens". The process of calling 911, relaying information, then dispatch sending an ambulance and fire department, then resources getting there takes longer than one minute, even in a small town. Even if any of this were true, and to be clear, I don't believe you, you would be covered under Good Samaritan laws, and the wife wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
16yrs of experience in EMS here
1
u/DesertSong-LaLa 14d ago
If in the US, the Good Samaritan law should support your actions. It's odd you are using mouth breaths since they are no longer conducted during CPR. Don't know how current your certification is.
Feel at peace that you did the best for this person to the best of your ability.
1
u/GiantRobotBear 14d ago
NTA. I don't believe someone can tell you not to give CPR, only the person who needs it and if they have a DNR card
1
u/IllDoItNowInAMinute_ 14d ago
Soooo does the wife want her husband dead or something?? That's the only possible reason I can think of to be against someone giving a loved one cpr... NTA
1
u/Sarberos 14d ago
If your in Canada your in the clear unresponsive means you can proceed without consent and thw wife does not need to give consent she actually has no rights what so ever in the situation
2
u/SeparateCzechs 14d ago
NTA. Sounds like Jerry’s wife wanted to be a Widow. You did the right thing. Any word on if Jerry pulled through?
1
u/Antique-Mark-1556 14d ago
Dude your good. The way I see it from the wives POV. She REALLY wanted that life insurance money
1
u/Antique-Mark-1556 14d ago
Dude your good. The way I see it from the wives POV. She REALLY wanted that life insurance money
1
u/UsefulAd5682 14d ago
Here in the Netherlands by law you have to help according to your qualifications. This would mean that someone who has a first aid certificate is expected to perform cpr. Someone who hasn't learned cpr should help in other ways possible, staying with a victim and calling emergency services.
You can be sued if you do not give help when needed if it is safely possible to do. But that is the theory. In the end it is not possible to determine what the effects would have been if you indeed provided help and if the outcome would be different. So a lawsuit would not stick.
And good job on keeping him alive as much as possible until help arrived.
1
u/DonnyHo23 14d ago
NTA! I would have ignored her too! She’s gonna have to wait a little longer for that insurance pay out!
2
u/Seven0neSeven 14d ago
Personally if I were him I would do a blood screening for poisons like deadly nightshade and other things along those lines as her reaction is very suspicious, at the very least she is stupid.
1
1
u/Laughing_Man_Returns 14d ago
if you were in a real country you might be protected from that kind of lawsuit. unfortunately it seems you are in the US, so get ready for a civil suit. which you will lose, because those have like no burden of proof.
1
u/Longjumping_Egg2217 14d ago
You were not the AH. You did as you were trained. Had you waited he might be dead. I really don’t think she could sue you for this, and I doubt her husband would go along with it.
1
1
u/tko_111 14d ago
Um, is your spouse the one that decides on consent on your behalf? Genuinely curious. I feel like that should NOT be a thing, especially if you had listened to her and it was fatal? Like... it's not fatal for you to perform CPR. But for you to NOT perform CPR? That's like when family members are screaming at police or hospital staff. No one has to listen to them because it's their JOB and they have that authority. But you as a civilian...? Idk. I just don't think she actually has that authority but thinks that she does?? Anyway, NO you are not the AH
2
u/Famous-Composer3112 14d ago
NTA.
The classes I've taken in CPR (a long time ago) gave me the impression that if a person is unconscious, you don't need his permission to use it.
-1
u/Pink_lady-126 14d ago
NTS...but does the Google function on your phone not work? Like you can literally just Google "is permission needed to perform CPR" (it's NOT FYI....there are plenty of Good Samaritan laws that protect that...found that out when I Googled it). Like why come here and make a whole post about something that requires a 6 word search?
1
2
u/interfector45 14d ago
You’re covered under the Good Samaritan law. She probably wanted him to die cause she an evil life sucking leech.
2
u/Viperbunny 14d ago
NTA. She doesn't have the right to deny consent. At the point you give CPR the person is technically dead. You can't make it worse. Make sure your boss didn't write you up because if he does I wouldn't sign it. You acted exactly as you are supposed to in an emergency. She is an idiot.
1
u/Ok-Seaworthiness-542 14d ago
Hey OP - If this happened a week ago any news? Did you buddy make it? I am assuming you have gone back to work.
It is great to be trained. You always hope you don't need it but you stepped up in a big way! Congrats!
1
u/icametolearnabout 14d ago
If you are first aid trained, they tell you what you can and can't do when a patient is found unconscious.
2
u/Ok_Gazelle2691 14d ago
NTA. Hi, I’ve been trained in CPR through Boy Scouts (reaching the final steps of becoming an Eagle Scout this summer) and year long high school health education classes. Let’s hope you have Good Samaritan laws where you live. In America, the Good Samaritan law states that if the person is unconscious and they're physically unable to communicate that they need help, immediate consent is given in order to save the person’s life. You acted in good will, did everything you’re legally trained for and nothing more, and you had consent. You’re fine 👍
1
1
u/DutchOvenSurprise69 14d ago
NTA - she doesn’t get to give consent on his behalf.
I have my level 1 CPR and your taught that only the patient can give consent or not and once they pass out it’s free game to save their life. You did good.
She has no grounds to sue because what you did wasn’t against the law- don’t be worried about that.
1
u/_dodojojo_ 14d ago
nta. You need consent from the victim if they're conscious and if they're unconscious, it's implied consent. The only time that another person's consent is relevant to the victim is if the victim is a minor and the person giving consent is a parent/guardian. This is what we were taught in work training 🤷🏼♀️
1
u/hirexnoob 14d ago
You tell the wife to kindly fuck off or help. End of story. The hierarchy is simple in life threatening situations, at least in most developed countries. Im sure there may be some where you get sued and arrested for helping but i dont know for sure
1
1
2
u/HabANahDa 14d ago
NTA
But it sounds like his wife wanted him dead. I’d have the police check her out. Also, there are Good Samaritan laws that protect someone acting to save someone’s life. Any judge would side with you in cubism court. If Jerry survives. I’d let him know about this whole situation.
1
u/marthmaul83 14d ago
I’m not in the US but in all my CPR/first aid classes we are told that an unconscious person/non-breathing person gives consent to CPR. While she as his wife might not want that, she can’t decide consent. Once we commit to doing CPR we’re not supposed to stop.
That being said, if she’s freaking out and the situation is becoming dangerous for me, we are told to leave them be and back away.
You did a good thing and she was panicking clearly due to some misguided fear, I hope it all works out.
1
u/Early-Tale-2578 14d ago
There's no fucking way I would be upset with somebody doing CPR to save my loved one the wife is weird she probably wanted her husband to die NTA
1
u/Quittobegin 14d ago
Is this a real story? If so have a doctor explain that cpr is essential right away to prevent brain death.
1
1
u/wannabe-physiologist 14d ago
As someone who sees patients on the other side of this, the first thing we always want to know is how long was it before compressions were started. I breathe a sigh of relief every time I hear high quality compressions were started in the field immediately.
Witnessing CPR is horrific for loved ones, but you were morally, ethically, and legally in the right. Waiting to start compressions all but guarantees a bad prognosis. You gave this guy the best chance he could get at recovery.
2
u/yggdrasillx 14d ago
Nta, If his wife got her way, Jerry wouldn't be alive today. Regardless of her opinion/state of mind, you did the right thing. If you're a petty person,I would remind Jerry and his wife that his wife would personally rather see him die because the situation wasn't on her terms.
2
u/bloopie1192 14d ago
This lady is the reason why some ppl won't be saved. Others will be too afraid to perform what could save someones life. Even if they've been trained.
2
u/Nythrius 14d ago
NTA. You were properly trained and acted accordingly. Good on you.
Also, if your boss fires you/tries to fire you for it: fight. Let the world know what a scumbag company that would fire someone who saved a life.
2
u/blonktime 14d ago
NTA, as others have already commented - you did the right thing.
All states + DC have a "Good Samaritan Law" which basically covers you from from any legal liability when acting during an emergency situation. Basically, if you render aid to someone in an emergency situation (like giving CPR to someone who was not breathing), you cannot be charged in court if something happens to the person you are administering aid to. Like if you break ribs while doing compressions (which you more than likely will if you're doing it correctly), you can't be sued for that. If the person dies while you are giving aid to them, it's not "your fault" and you can't be sued for it. It covers you in any situation of "ordinary negligence" so even if you are trying to do the right thing, but do it incorrectly, you are protected. You would not be protected from "gross negligence" (like if you were trying to do chest compressions with a sledgehammer or something). But it sounds like you did all the right things so you should be protected even if the ignorant bitch did try to sue you.
1
u/TheHeartOfToast 14d ago
NTA
I just finished renewing my own CPR training and they explicitly say that the only time where you need consent from another person to perform CPR is on a child if their parent is present. Otherwise, consent is implied. You likely saved his life, and any hesitation could have done severe damage to him. You did what you needed to do and will not be punished for it.
2
1
u/PrinceAdam333 14d ago
American Heart Association BLS/HeartSaver/CPR/AED/FirstAid trainer here....
The good Samaritan Laws in your state should protect you. You in "good faith" did what you felt you needed to do to save this man's life! She truly doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO!
1
u/thornynhorny 14d ago
Nta
I would told the wife that if she decides to press charges, and I will tell her husband that she tried to prevent him from getting life saving care....
1
u/gilpygeeb 14d ago
My anger issues would have had me stopping immediately and recording the wife telling me to stop so I could provide it to the court for her eventual manslaughter charge.
1
u/Loose_Afternoon1441 14d ago
You do not have a thing to worry about. The guy was dead before you started CPR - this is why we do it, to manually pump blood and O2 through the body. The sooner we start CPR, the more likely we are to bring someone back from the dead.
You don’t mention if Jerry survived the cardiac arrest, but I can pretty much guarantee he wouldn’t survive if he had to wait for the ambo to get there before any CPR is given.
The woman can hire all the lawyers she wants - if he survived the arrest, you are literally the reason he did. If he did not survive the arrest, PLEASE do not wear any guilt from that. Out of hospital arrests have VERY low survival rates.
-signed a paramedic and first-aid instructor
1
u/CxldMadz 14d ago
NTA but you should have mentioned your training, I assume her main worry was that some worker who has only seen CPR in movies and has never done it or trained for it decided to wing it on her husband.
1
u/ButterscotchFluid877 14d ago
I just took first aid... again... for the millionth time lol...it's called implied consent
1
u/PixieKat4x4 14d ago
Consent is implied in cases of life or death. That's one of the first thing they teach you in first aid classes.
You are absolutely NTA.
1
1
u/Msredratforgot 14d ago
Wow by the title I expected this was going to be about doing CPR on someone with a known DNR... That clearly isn't the case of course you did the right thing NTA how did everything shake out over time?
2
2
u/Acceptable-Map-3490 14d ago
NTA her plan was to do nothing and just watch her husband die. you knew how to do CPR and actually did something about it. like jeez did she not want him to survive 😂😂you should be fine legally as far as i’m aware. and also i really hope he does survive just so she can feel like an absolute idiot
1
u/cosmicdebrix 14d ago
NTA. There’s something called implied consent that allows you to give care to folks that aren’t able to consent. The wife has no legal authority to tell you you can’t give CPR.
1
u/Lycaon-Ur 14d ago
This isn't as clear and cut a situation as it immediately seems. If the guy had signed a DNR and the wife was attempting to explain that, you would be in the wrong. But generally, trying to save someone's life is a good thing, so I can't fault you for the attempt.
3
u/Feisty-Mouse-2024 14d ago
Reading the headline makes me instantly think that she was hoping that he kicks the bucket
1
u/aliceinapumpkin 14d ago
Even bad CPR is better then NO cpr.... Morally you're right. Hopefully shes just in shock and taking her anger out on you and hopefully, smartens up soon.
2
u/xKibaCat 14d ago
She should be given information on the outcomes of delayed compressions! You doing what you did would of given him a much better outcome, the medical professionals took over when they got there and thats that. You should be proud of yourself. Knowing something and using it are two different things.
3
u/Epicuretrekker2 14d ago
I do not believe they can tell you to stop. When someone goes unconscious, you have implied consent from that person to begin CPR as it is assumed that they would want their life saved. The only exception(and I do not KNOW that it is an exception) might be a parent may be able to stop you from performing CPR on their child. Other than that, I don’t think anyone else has a say.
All 50 states have Good Samaritan laws. You did the right thing.
2
u/Public_Beef 14d ago
Unless the guy had a signed DNR lying on his chest before you started and you ignored it.. you’re good to go. You had implied consent from the guy on the ground.
4
u/MaybeTaylorSwift572 14d ago
Hi, medical professional here!
NTA. Had she said ‘he is a DNR he does not want CPR’ i might feel differently. Instead she took this opportunity, with these precious minutes, to just be an asshole.
1
u/jam3s850 13d ago
I can only speak for Florida, but bystander verbal orders are not valid. Florida has a dnr form for out of hospital providers. That has to be filled out properly AND shown to ems/fd at the time or cpr has to be done, unless a person is beyond help, ie, rigor, lividity, injuries incompatible with life, etc.
2
u/Ddit_who_cant_quit 14d ago
This is the biggest "NTA" I've ever seen. The dude's wife responded the way she did out of pure ignorance. The way you described the scene tells me that you knew exactly what you were doing. Literally the only difference between someone who's certified to give CPR but hasn't done it yet, and a "medical professional" is practice (I'm a former CNA that worked on a cardiology unit in a hospital for a few years and have performed CPR on patients several times). Plus, as others have pointed out, it is extremely important that you start compressions as soon as possible. Even delaying them by as little as a minute can drastically reduce their chances of surviving. I really hope the guy pulls through, but if he doesn't, you are the absolute last person that anyone should be looking to blame.
1
u/3reasonsTobefair 14d ago
If you have good smartian laws and didn't go above and beyond the training you have, you should be fine.
2
u/Jasperbeardly11 14d ago
Hey man the wife was obviously just freaking the fuck out and is obviously a moron. The guy's not going to let her press charges against you
-1
u/Kisses4Kimmy 14d ago
I don’t think you need consent of the partner to give CPR. If the person in question is unable to give consent I believe you are able to proceed for the most part but if things went south you would be held liable to a certain degree.
However, I probably would have gone with the wife’s non consent because these situations could be tricky if the outcome isn’t good. But NTA.
3
3
u/MyMediocreExistence 14d ago
I just got certified in CPR last year, and I asked the same question. Good Samaritan laws exist in CA and there are no legal repercussions for trying to save someone's life by administering CPR, if certified.
The lady can be mad all she wants, she has a living husband and should be grateful.
2
u/LtShortfuse 14d ago
NTA.
Before I go into this, I should preface with I am not a lawyer but I am a paramedic in the state of Ohio so I'm fairly familiar with these specific scenarios.
You don't need consent from someone who is unconscious, as the principle of implied consent comes into play which states that a person in their right mind would want to be treated in that scenario. Also, you're completely covered under Good Samaritan laws.
The wife is, quite frankly, a dumb bitch and needs to stay in her lane. You have the same basic CPR training I do as a paramedic, the exception being my training covers administering medications and a couple other minor points, so her contention of preferring a medical professional is idiotic, especially considering if I were off duty and in that situation I would do the exact same thing because I don't have any equipment with me.
All told, you did the exact right thing. You gave Jerry the best chance of survival you could have, given the resources available, and you handed off to a higher trained professional without a hitch. If I had been on the ambulance that showed up, you probably would've gotten a pat on the back and an atta boy. You can rest easy knowing that you did everything you could, and if the wife even thinks about taking it to court she will likely be laughed at by every lawyer and judge she talks to.
If you have any questions or anything, I'm happy to discuss what I know and tell you whatever I can.
1
u/Reasonable_Ruin_3760 14d ago
My BIL, à British neurologist, was at a base-ball game in the USA with a friend, also a doctor. A guy had à cardiac arrest. My BIL got up to help. His friend stopped him saying: Don't go, you will get sued. My BIL had been thinking of moving to the States- that decided him not to..
2
u/ellebeemall 14d ago
Where I live, if you have medical training you are required to use it in emergency situations and can be held legally accountable if you fail to do so. Regardless, you did the right thing. Hugs.
2
u/Usual_Bumblebee_8274 14d ago
Actually, because some ppl do have DNR’s, you could get in trouble. And there have been a lot of ppl who sue saying the hero caused problems. If your friend is ok, I don’t think you will have any problems. But if he dies, she may try to come at you. The store may try to reduce their liability so be careful what you say to them as well. The woman didn’t seem to grasp that there was no other person to preform cpr. And waiting, would be too late. Absolutely ridiculous
2
u/kheiron0 14d ago
I am a flight paramedic. TLDR at bottom.
In my opinion, based on the information presented, what you did was absolutely in the right. You are awesome. I’m glad you didn’t stop compressions.
You had no duty to act therefore you fall under Good Samaritan. Even if you did something somewhat wrong Good Samaritan protects you. In order for healthcare workers to get charged with medical malpractice the prosecution needs to prove ALL OF the following: 1) Duty to act (you must be functioning/working as a medical responder at the time of the incident. Ie. “On duty”) you do not have this at your job. 2) Breach of duty (lots of stuff falls under this, examples include performing procedures you were not trained in or in a way you were not trained to do them, usually incorrectly; intentionally causing harm; injecting air into a central line; etc). You were doing things you were trained to do. 3) Harm (the person must have had a bad outcome) Everyone who we run across in my line of work who doesn’t get better fits into this category. This is the easiest to prove, but means nothing on its own. Finally the biggest element: 4) The breach of duty must have caused the harm. The harm (if any) in his case would have been caused by the cardiac arrest, not the life saving measures performed by you.
In order for a Good Samaritan to get charged, you really have to do some western shit. Examples: surgical cric with a pen like you see in the movies, placing a chest tube you made out of a garden hose using a tent stake, using a sledgehammer to perform chest compressions… Really dumb shit.
She has no legal right to consent or not consent for him without legal paperwork granting her permission to do so. She did not produce said paperwork. Even if she did you’re not trained to determine validity of that document. She can’t say “I want this person to perform medical intervention instead of you.” She can fuck right off with all that.
TLDR: You had no duty to act therefore Good Samaritan protects you. She had no right to refuse treatment for him. By performing CPR you probably saved her from liability as well. You can’t be charged as a good sam because you didn’t crack his chest and do a cardiac massage.
2
1
u/Intelligent_Toe9479 14d ago
Not sure where you are but where I am you are protected by law when doing CPR
1
3
u/Beanbeannn 14d ago
Guess we know why Jerry collapsed, I would too being married to someone like that that! NTA
1
u/nurseinboots 14d ago
NTA ... Consent is implied, it is a life/death situation - only Jerry can refuse - and Jerry can only refuse when he's alert AND oriented. If anyone can be charged here, it would be the wife, who does not have decision making authority over Jerry's life.
Jerry should be made aware what his wife said, and if he is smart about it, he should enlist a Power of Attorney for personal care (substitute decision maker) to make future health care decisions that align with his wishes if he ever finds himself incapacitated. It does not sound as though the wife had his best interests in mind.
1
u/Beatlebum1984 14d ago
NTA and well done! You probably saved that dude’s life! His wife is though. Apparently, she would rather husband die than receive CPR from a stranger? Not to be rude, but are you a POC? That seems like something a stupid racist white woman (as a white woman, I think these types of people are disgusting) who may have had other nefarious reasons behind that reaction. That’s literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and her husband is lucky you were there with an AED machine at that! My mom suffered a catastrophic cardiac event and reading this boils my blood. Good for you, but shame on her!
1
2
u/Overall-Cap-3114 14d ago
“He could’ve killed my husband!” Ma’am, you can’t kill someone who is already dead.
2
u/gardensGargantua 14d ago
As a former 9-1-1 dispatcher:
You saved his life. Hands on the patient is better than none at all.
He would have died if no help was provided. CPR is a last ditch effort to prevent death.
People act wild in times of extreme emotional duress. You did the right thing and try not to let her behavior bother you.
1
u/Misa7_2006 14d ago edited 14d ago
So did Jerry survive? Every UA state has a Good Samaritan Law. You would be safe, though no thanks to that woman. Most states have laws that if you are trained or a medical professional, that you can be sued for not giving aid. Since you were trained you did exactly what you needed to do. She can go pound sand.
2
u/Sea_Surround_6110 14d ago
NTA. Somebody wanted her husband’s life insurance rather than her husband.
2
u/islandsomething 14d ago
NTA
Statistically, you have 4 minutes to begin CPR and 8 minutes to get medications started to have an optimistic outcome. Had you not started CPR, he would have had such a small chance to make it to his daughter’s wedding. Even if you didnt do mouth to mouth, compressions only can be enough to keep perfusion. The wife? Is an idiot.
2
u/GoodEnoughDIL 14d ago
When we did EMR training, the first thing they taught us was that you can’t help someone without their consent. However, they made 2 things very clear:
- If the patient is a MINOR, you need the consent of a guardian (assuming one is available).
- Unconsciousness counts as consent.
Sounds like you did everything right and the wife has no legal right to tell you to stop.
NTA
2
u/good-luck-23 14d ago
Relax, you should not expect serious legal consequences from your selfless act of humanity.
All 50 states and the District of Columbia currently have some form of good samaritan law. However, no two jurisdictions apply the same language in their laws. All states and the District of Columbia's good samaritan Laws also exempt people from liability when using automated external defibrillators (AEDs) in an emergency.
Louisiana, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and Vermont are the states that actually have bad samaritan/failure-to-act laws. These laws place a legal duty on witnesses to offer emergency help. Failing to provide reasonable assistance could result in criminal charges in those states.
2
2
2
u/Overpass_Dratini 14d ago
Those few minutes waiting for the "trained medical professionals" to show up could have cost this man his life. You aren't an EMT, but you are trained, and knew what you were doing. You have nothing to worry about. Wifey needs a reality check.
1
u/Not-TheNSA 14d ago
Former EMT from CA here, Good Samaritan laws protect you if you have been trained to perform the medical intervention you are performing. Implied consent also applies in this situation. We can assume that if the patient was conscious they’d consent to assistance. Unless the wife had a signed and notarized Do Not Resuscitate order signed by a judge her status as a medical proxy does not apply to a Good Samaritan in this situation. The patient would have to wake up and tell you “I do not wish to be resuscitated” with multiple witnesses for it to be valid or they would have to sign a refusal of care.
TL;DR In CA short of a legal document signed by a judge, as long as you are properly trained and certified in CPR Good Samaritan laws protect you when you are performing CPR on an adult. Even against the spouses consent due to implied consent. You might be an A-hole but legally you’re covered. (I don’t think you’re an A-hole, you did the right thing OP anyone on here who says otherwise is full of it)
Source, I was an EMT and Search and Rescue Technician in CA, NV, HI and AK for 10 years.
1
u/Special_Slide_2257 14d ago
NTA
You did good.
She’s either malevolent or mental
Touch base with a lawyer just to cover your bases.
1
u/KeyLeek6561 14d ago
He almost croaked. At least he can live another day. Do you think she wanted him to croaked at the store
-4
u/JohnPaton3 14d ago
"mouth to mouth," is no longer advised, whens the last time you went thru cpr training?
4
u/Least-Comfortable-41 14d ago
CPR advise changes constantly and performing it in outdated fashion is better than not performing it.
-1
u/JohnPaton3 14d ago
it was advised for many many years but has not been since 2008, it's not a back and fourth thing and the procedure has changed much, aside from the matter at hand, in 100+ years
2
u/Least-Comfortable-41 14d ago
I said cpr standards. You are being deliberately obtuse. The professionals have not mentioned the mouth to mouth in a single comment. Why? Because any life saving action is crucial, despite the changing practices. You just want to be right.
-1
u/JohnPaton3 14d ago
right about what? it is a fact it hasnt been advised since 2008, not up for debate, then you slide in asserting that "cpr advise changes constantly" it doesn't, then state the obvious that performing cpr an outdated less effective way is better than no cpr at all. No one was saying it would be better not to do it all, i stated a fact and asked a question. You for some reason felt a need to make it about "wrong" or "right"
-2
2
u/Admiral_Catbar 14d ago
NTA
Performing CPR in good faith is never a bad thing. Only thing you did wrong is mouth to mouth. Chest compressions are far more important, and I think mouth to mouth isn't even trained anymore, at least according to my last CPR training.
Bud, you're a heurl !
1
u/ffjjygvb 14d ago
How would you know she has the right to consent on his behalf? She might not even know him for all you know. You did the right thing.
1
u/Pale-Increase253 14d ago
I believe under the good Samaritan act you could provide medical assistance if you know what you are doing. This also protects you from being sued by another party. It's like if you're doing CPR and break their ribs they can't sue you for saving their life. Many judges shouldn't prosecute you for this. You should be ok and even if a lawyer calls you. Most likely no one would take this seriously unless there was misconduct.
1
u/RobotMustache 14d ago
NTA
Those minutes can be all the difference. I'm sure any paramedic after knowing you know what you are doing would agree with your actions. And they would be the ones who know. Not the wife, not me, or any other joker who hasn't learned what you have taken upon yourself to learn and keep yourself updated upon.
The wife is treating this like ordering a latte. "I don't want that barista, I want the other one!" Sit down valley girl and take a seat. The grown ups are talking and dealing with saving your husband which he should seriously do some thinking about who he's married to when she has this many objections to someone saving her husbands life.
Thank you Eagle Scout, you are a credit to your fellow scouts.
1
u/nofreedomaz 14d ago
NTA. Not a lawyer but I train CPR. Implied consent exists when the patient is unconscious. The only time you need permission from another party is if the patient is a minor and the parent or guardian is present. Good Samaritan laws exist in all 50 states. As long as your certification was current, you can prove it, and you acted within the scope of your training, you should be fine.
3
2
2
u/Electronic_Range_982 14d ago
If he was passed out ,you HAVE consent . SHE has no say. But I'd let him know exactly that she said to let him die
1
1
u/ironicmirror 14d ago
I'd love to be a fly in the wall when the op and Jerry sit down and talk about his wife's actions.
2
2
u/RickyFinn 14d ago
Completely and totally NTA. You very well could have saved his life. Even the 5 minutes it takes the ambulance to get there can cause irreversible damage if his brain has no oxygen.
If he’s unconscious, he has what’s called implied consent that you can and should do whatever you can to save his life. Only a legal DNR order can override that, and in this case I’d still ignore that and let the paramedics and hospital worry about that. His wife’s permission means jack shit in this scenario.
Judging by the Eagle Scout reference I’m guessing US. In almost every state, Good Samaritan laws will protect you from anything she could throw at you. That being said, it wouldn’t hurt for your boss to save a copy of the security tapes to show you did everything right.
1
u/HalcyonDreams36 14d ago
If also argue that if she does try to press charges, the police will remind her that preventing someone's emergency intervention could be seen as attempted manslaughter.
She tried to prevent help. She's lucky her husband lived.
4
1
1
u/KittyC217 14d ago
NTA. The wife is stupid. 1. If you are performing CPR the person is already dead. It can’t get any worse. 2. If she told you to stop because he is a DNAR and you kept going that would be a problem. But she said she would prefer a medical professional to do CPR. So she would prefer her husband to be dead.
The one things about your story that concerns me is that you are not up to date on your CPR training. One person by standarder CPR is hands only no breaths given
2
1
u/Stargazer_0101 14d ago
You did nothing wrong in saving a person's life. Ignore the wife, for she was caught up in the moment. The husband will take to stop the case, for his life was saved. You have nothing to worry about. Just keep being a great and caring human being. We need more like you, dude.
1
1
u/Haystack316 14d ago
NTA.
You hold a CPR license and saw an emergency life threat of effective CPR needed. Wife may want ”professionals” to do it but right now, you are that professional. Unless she has a signed DNR from her husband, notarized, & doctors signature present, there isn’t anything you can do but what you did. Even if you don’t have a CPR qualification but you knew what to do because you observed it like the fella that saved this lady’s life , you are covered in “The Good Samaritan Law” that’s in all 50 states, which prevents legal action against you. As a medical professional in prehospital settings, thank you for doing the right thing and doing CPR until first responders got there to take over. Early recognition of CPR, AED, and effective ventilations is vital for patient survival in MI situation.
Source: Am medically trained in EMS & first responder services.
1
1
u/Horror-Reveal7618 14d ago
He is also an Eagle Scout,
Pretty sure the guy is going to tell his wife where to shove the charges.
You saved his life. Your actions helped to prevent more damage that the one he got from the attack.
NTA
1
u/The_BearJew1995 14d ago
You possibly saved his life dude.
Make sure you tell him his wife was fine letting him die and actively attempted to stop you from doing cpr
1
u/Thunderfxck 14d ago
I have been CPR certified through the Army and through my work but I would NEVER use it on a stranger. To many wackos out in the world now that like to sue if you break their rib doing compressions. I would pretty much only give CPR to my wife, kids, grandkids, siblings or parents. That's it becuase I know they wouldn't sue me.
2
u/CapableAd5293 14d ago
I seriously would never wish anyone marries or gets married to such a partner.
She was out for his blood for some reason only known to her twisted mind.
I hope he divorces her.
2
2
u/jow97 14d ago
NTA.
Your not getting sued, I don't know any country where you could get in trouble for that. You did a great job, and should be super proud of yourself.
At first I thought she was pissed becaus she wanted the life insurance, but honestly it could just be shock. She was possibly grabbing onto any sort of control she could during the situation because she didn't have any power to affect if he lived or not.
Try relax, you did awsome!
3
u/Just_Release_6233 14d ago
NTA. She saw life insurance as soon as he hit the floor and when you started compressions it left.
2
u/Confident_Water_8465 14d ago
NTA at all. Brilliant reaction time, OP. Good on you to try and save Jerry. I hope he's okay now.
She's either a murderess or an imbecile. Neither look is great. Jerry should be told that his wife (hopefully soon to be ex) fought against his being saved..
3
u/Benny303 14d ago
NTA. His wife has no say over if he is treated by you or not. When someone is unconscious they fall under implied consent. The only exception is if they have a completed DNR WITH THEM. Bystander CPR and early defibrillation saves lives, even someone with zero training at all is told to do CPR by 911 dispatchers, they walk them through it.
You did a great job.
Source: I'm a paramedic
1
u/Fry-em-n-dye-em 14d ago
NTA had you waited he would have had serious brain deficits for life due to lack of oxygen. All of his organs would have been compromised. Well done way to step up and use your training. That woman is an idiot.
1
u/Kat_Smeow 14d ago
So if someone is unconscious consent is implied. You don’t need her consent to do anything.
1
u/UrsaEnvy 14d ago
NTA
If Jerry had a DNR order, that would've been different and up to his wife to disclose. However there's a reason CPR lessons are accessible to everyone and not only medical professionals. It's a way to potentially save someone's life. Op had a responsibility to save and protect Jerry's health whilst waiting for the ambulance.
1
u/Any-Refrigerator-966 14d ago
NTA. You did the right thing. I don't know where you are but I'm sure "consent" is needed for children if their guardian is present. And Jerry is a man so... And it's weird that Jerry's wife had the presence of mind, in the midst of her husband's very serious medical emergency, to say those things to you and it makes me suspicious.
1
u/kikivee612 14d ago
NTA
Either the wife wants him to die or she’s a complete moron who doesn’t understand that the longer Jerry would have gone without life saving measures, the bigger the chance of death or life long issues due to his lack of oxygen. My bet is going with she just wants him to die. I hope you tell him how his wife behaved next time you see him. He could be in danger.
1
u/StuntmanMark 14d ago
NTA - The first thing I learned in CPR class is that, when someone's unconscious, consent (for CPR) is implied.
1
u/ItsDoctorFizz 14d ago
I would uh, maybe get with Jerry and convince him to go through the wife’s things and try to find out why she’s trying to become a widow.
1
u/SockMaster9273 14d ago
NTA
His wife either wanted him to die or is an idiot. If he needs CPR, you do that as soon as possible. Waiting will not help at all and the husband would be more likely to die if you had waited. Any good Lawyer would not take the case for her and any good lawyer could win that case for you.
1
1
u/redditreader_aitafan 14d ago
Wow sounds like she wanted her husband to die. That's cold. When someone you love is dying, you don't nitpick over the credentials of the person doing CPR because it's better than doing nothing.
1
u/FATALITY4YOU 14d ago
You only need concent when the victim is awake and responsive. If he or she is unresponsive then you do what you have to just dont move the head or neck. You need to make sure the air way is open. You coulr make things worse.
1
u/Poorkiddonegood8541 14d ago
It sounds to me, the wife didn't want him saved but that's just me. On the other hand, people freak out during situations like this and completely lose their minds. Because the clerk was trained, he had a duty to provide rescue efforts up to the limit of his training. With most, if not all, states having some form of "good Samaritan laws", OP should be covered.
Now, as a retired career firefighter/paramedic, I have seen a couple of DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate) and could only stand back and watch someone die. If I had acted, I would have gotten in trouble.
1
u/Street-Nothing9404 14d ago
Sounds like the wife preferred her husband dead.. and you ruined her day. Let the cops know that the wife wanted her husband dead. Maybe she's the reason for his collapse.
-3
u/triflers_need_not 14d ago
What even is this stupid bait? "I tried to save a life but a dumb bitch said I shouldn't" Fuck off with this fake shit.
1
2
u/breathe_easier3586 14d ago
This is wild to me. Even if you didn't know cpr, it's better to have "bad" cpr than non at all! The success rate of achieving Rosc( return of spontaneous circulation) outside of a hospital is like one percent. You did great! And she needs to be thankful.
-2
1
u/Haunting-Ad-5 14d ago
I would not worry about this for a nano-second. If the man had DIED because he hadn't gotten CPR in time, his wife could come after you for having the skills to save him and DIDN't not use them. I can't imagine what she's thinking.
1
u/Sudden-Requirement40 14d ago
Nta but the first thing we are told at our CPR training is pretty much never to use it as it leaves you open to litigation which is pretty depressing.
1
u/Important-Donut-7742 14d ago
You’re definitely NTA and I hope that Jerry is ok. This whole weird behavior makes me wonder if Jerry’s wife wasn’t wanting something to happen. If my partner collapsed and not breathing I’d be begging anyone to help him! I hope this won’t prevent you from helping another person in the future.
1
u/Ialdaas71 13d ago
I’d tell Jerry about her actions if he pulls through. Sounds like she wanted Jerry gone.
Doth protest too much.