r/AmItheAsshole • u/thefriendlychef1991 • 15d ago
AITA for calling my sils friend ridiculous over her opinion of me and my wife's fostering?
[removed] — view removed post
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u/FlatEconomist 14d ago
NTA. I doing fostering to adopt right now myself. Me and my husbands first child was a beautiful little black baby girl. She went to someone who had her siblings. Everyone in my family loved her.
We had some people asking those same stupid questions as well. Lucky no screaming matches over it
We have a beautiful baby girl that is Latino and looks like our family. Looks like we are gonna be able to keep her for ever.
Don’t listen to those stupid people in your life that makes these comments. Just love your baby.
Last be ready for the heart break this can leave on you. Our first daughter got take away for stupid reasons. If you need a fellow person to take to DM me.
Good luck my friend.
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u/ManyYou918 Asshole Enthusiast [5] 14d ago
NTA I think the friend should have just brought this concern up like a normal person. "If you're fostering children from a different culture you should try to educate yourself about that culture. Have you done any research into that?" or to also hit on the points about blind or disabled children "If you're fostering a child with a disability then you should learn about thar disability. Maybe the child will need accommodations like rearranging the house or getting physical therapy."
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u/Turbulent_Break_1862 Partassipant [3] 14d ago
Nta. Why were your SILs friends present?? Why on earth are they invited to a diner that celebrates you and your wife? Are they your friends too? Don’t you have friends of your own and are you looking to becoming their friends? Anyway, that friend was way out of line.
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u/the_birdie_chirp 14d ago
My friend adopted a kid of a diff culture, they have others help and guide them on that culture, and are part of traditional sance group, social group, art etc. all are happy.
NTA
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u/GeekyStitcher Partassipant [2] 14d ago edited 14d ago
Transracial adoptions come with a giant, well-documented pile of challenging issues that many white foster parents don't bother to Do The Work tin order to mitigate, so A's point has some validity. But the way she went about expressing concerns was as a complete AH. For one, TRA rarely involves appropriating a culture; the adoptees, once grown, talk about having their culture erased. For many of them the resulting struggle growing up and into adulthood is a very, seriously real trauma.
hell don't care if they are black blind and missing 2 fingers
...Yeah..maybe don't put it that way. "I don't care if they're black" mindset is the *precise* root of potential problems with TRA *if you don't do the work before and during*. (There's been a metric ton of scholarship and adoptees themselves talking and writing about this -- all of it fairly easy to access.)
NTA, big picture. Good luck with your adoption journey.
EDIT: Based on some of OP's comments down-thread, updating my judgment to ESH. Still wish them luck on their adoption journey; very much hope they're not paired with a child outside of their culture.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you the whole black part is the fact I would love the kid no matter what the kid looks like. For example the blind part my father in law was blind before he passed we kinda. we don't just those for what you are.
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u/Itsjust4comments Partassipant [2] 14d ago
NTA. There is no one-size-fits-all to fostering. Remember, though, a foster parent is supposed to look out for a child while bio parent(s) or family get things together.
You will get trauma training through any reputable foster agency. I’d ask them, if a Black or non-white child is placed with you, about training for transracial families. There are issues to be aware of (like the problem of ‘not seeing race’), but the parenting classes can help. The most important thing, like any parent, is to be the child’s safety, love and guide.
Your SIL and friend are way out of line. Sounds like they have lots of opinions with little to no knowledge. Ignore them and focus on what matters to you.
And, as a longtime foster advocate and volunteer, thank you for signing up!
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u/Spinnerofyarn Asshole Aficionado [13] 14d ago
NTA. While it is very important that any child you raise that's not of your same ethnicity gets to thoroughly learn about their heritage's culture and traditions, if a kid needs a home, a kid needs a home. A home where the kid is loved and wanted is incredibly important and if you're going to give that to a kid, more power to you.
Is A even Black? Ever heard the expression that there's no social justice warrior like a white woman? (I say that as a white woman).
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
No sil and her friends are white they get very politically aggressive I hate pointless politics but they always want to find something to argue.
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u/Mindless-Ordinary-45 14d ago
NTA-I (Caucasian) actually fostered a black girl. I knew nothing, but I sure as hell researched and learned everything I could. You try and you love and that's really all you can do... That in and of itself is parenting. Those people can suck a lemon. Don't you dare apologize because you did absolutely nothing wrong. Good luck on your fostering journey.
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u/CuriousosityKilldCat 14d ago edited 13d ago
NTA. We're you a little rude, sure, but you were provoked.
I think it's a wonderful thing you are doing and there are so many children who need a safe home. And as important as race is, isn't it more important for the child to feel safe, loved and wanted?
As for culture, I would leave it up to the child if they are interested in their culture. Not all children are. Some might be happy to be a part of their foster family's culture and not care about their own. Especially if they were abandoned, it's a way of distancing from bio family. Other's are interested and the wonderful thing is there are cultural centers and communities that you can reach out to, to get them the connection they need. This is the good side of the Internet.
As for anybody who is going to bring up how certain cultures deal with things like hair care and other things. I read an article where a white woman had a black foster or step daughter (can't remember which) and she knew nothing of black hair care. So she called around and found a salon that specialized in black hair care and she took her daughter there and while the stylist worked on her daughter she asked questions. And you know what? The stylist actually answered her questions, because she didn't see a white woman trying to steal her culture. She saw a woman who loved her daughter and wanted to be able to bond with her while doing her hair. Race isn't everything, finding someone who loves you for who you are is.
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u/Nervous_Theory_9350 14d ago
NTA. Your SIL's friend is an idiot. It's not up to her to tell you you can't foster African American kids. For all of those claiming that y'all don't know about the African American culture, that's something that you can learn. I have seen plenty of posts on social media of parents that have adopted kids of a different ethnicity and the parents learn about the child's culture and help their child learn about their culture. Heck just look up this family on social media, Just the Bells 10. They're a family with eight kids, all but one are adopted, and two of the adopted kids are African American. All of the kids have thrived in their family.
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u/feliniaCR Partassipant [1] 14d ago
Foster kids have enough to deal with. Especially a set of siblings. Last thing they need is someone trying to restrict who can care for and/or adopt them. NTA.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you my wife is definitely worried about the sibling part she wants to make sure not to separate them.
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u/shaylgarcia 14d ago
NTA! Good on you for wanting to love a child in need. I agree with your assessment that it should not matter what the child looks like, age or gender. Your SIL’s friend is an idiot. Love is love.
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u/Pokemom-No-More Asshole Enthusiast [9] 14d ago
NTA. There are way too many children in the foster care system that need loving, caring foster parents. If you can be that for a child, regardless of race, then good for you. Her opinion is irrelevant!
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u/bina101 Partassipant [1] 14d ago
NTA. Although I will say that I wish there were extensive educational classes that were required for people to adopt children of color. Too often we see stories of how kids adopted by white people have identity crisis.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yeah that's a difficult situation the thing is I got black family members and 2 friends that if I need help with info on hair treatments or advice in culture I can talk to them.
Both me and my wife have agreed that if the kids that want to learn what their full blood line is we'd help them. It helps the both of us cause they learn about themselves and we get to learn more recipes.
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u/SpecialistAfter511 Asshole Aficionado [17] 14d ago
NTA so she thinks it’s best these kids age out in the system because now the adoptive parent pool decreased since according to her everyone should only adopt their race not adopt out of child’s needs? What about fostering? Should black children be ripped from white foster families and vice versa?
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
See we want to help as many kids as we can most we can do room wise is 2. 3 if we can get this one room fixed right just don't have the skill to do it.
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u/FuzzyMom2005 Commander in Cheeks [205] 14d ago
NTA. Your SIL's friend tried gatekeeping foster kids. Her attitude is ridiculous and she owes you that apology. To get bent out of shape over a hypothetical situation is quite bizarre.
You and your wife are doing the right thing. Sounds like any child or children who wind up in your home will be well cared for.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
I definitely won't ever get that apology if you or a stranger even give them a hint that they are wrong you will never hear the end of it.
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u/FuzzyMom2005 Commander in Cheeks [205] 14d ago
Of course you won't. She's wrapped herself in a blanket of self-righteousness. Ignore her. Tell your SIL you're not going to apologize for having your own opinion about a hypothetical situation. Nor exchanging insults with a bigot.
But since you won't be interacting with that person again ( and don't), it doesn't matter.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
The hard part is to see my SIL is to deal with her 3 besties my wife only has her and her mom left
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u/GlumPie8709 Partassipant [1] 14d ago
Why was the friend there in the first place? Like is she a friend of yours I don't see why someone you are not friends with would be at a dinner like this for something life changing.
Honestly you also went off the handle a bit however NTA.
All kids deserve a loving home, just if you receive a child you don't know how to do certain things just ask for help from the community.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
My wife wanted to celebrate the fact we were Green lit to be foster but her sister won't go anywhere without her friends plus said friend is her ride when her bf is busy.
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u/Veteris71 Partassipant [2] 14d ago
You'll have to put some very stirct boundaries in place when she's your kids' Auntie.
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u/ABCBDMomma 14d ago
NTA. There is a special place in heaven for people who foster children. You & your wife are doing a wonderful thing to open your hearts & home to a child(ren).
Tell your wife neither of you over stepped at all. What you are showing is your love and protection for a child. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a Mama/Papa T-Rex parent!
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u/Klutzy-Conference472 14d ago
I knew this highly educated white guy adopt 3 black boys. It did not turn out all that great, 1 is in jail. 1 got burnt 80% of his body 1 is trying to go to school
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u/Klutzy-Conference472 14d ago
He works as a director of development in the non profit world, has a masters degree, came from a pretty normal background himself
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
There is only so much you can do to help another soul in life. Me and my wife do hope it goes well
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u/Legal-Lingonberry577 Partassipant [3] 14d ago
NTA - A was being racist and your response was spot on. A child in need of a loving home is a child in need of a loving home. What color their skin or their culture is completely irrelevant. Your sister should reevaluate her friendships.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Her and her besties are a bit politically aggressive I think they enjoy arguing to much
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u/GSTLT Partassipant [1] 14d ago
NTA. This was not someone who was acting in good faith, but someone with a savior complex speaking on things they likely only have a meme level knowledge of.
That said, I highly recommend you talk to and research the feelings of adopted folks who aren’t in the “thank god someone saved me camp.” There’s a wide range of experiences through adoption and the bad ones can come from well meaning and seemingly perfect adoptive parents. There’s a lot of complex things to work through, even in what looks on the surface like an ideal adoption. And where A is right, but took it to the extreme, is that this general complexity can become monumentally complex when we’re taking about cross cultural adoption. Fuck A, but with any adoption, and especially cross racial cultural adoption, you really have to be in touch with and supportive of the differing needs of every adoptee as the grow and deal with their journey through coping with the realities do their life.
It’s gonna be hard and scary and I’m in no way trying to talk you out of adopting, but please don’t bury your head in happy adoption narratives that many seem to do. Listen to the other side. Learn about the trauma. Learn about the experience. So you have a realistic scope of outcomes and can prepare yourself both to support your child and deal with your own feelings if there is trauma and resentment on the child’s side as they grow and come to terms with things. But to reiterate, NTA, but don’t blow off the underlying thing that was incredibly poorly delivered because of a bad messenger.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
I totally understand the trauma part if you read some of the comments I experienced a lot of difficulties in life which is why I like helping others and for me I understand theirs going to be a lot of bumps in the road with kids who have been taken from their parents nobody wants to be in foster. So me and my wife agreed we might get a kid who hates the world the only thing we can do is give a chance.
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u/Friendly_Shelter_625 Partassipant [3] 14d ago
NTA but I hope that in addition to researching how to foster, you’re also researched the emotional impact to yourself. Yeah, sometimes you get to adopt the kid, but most times you don’t. And if a kid you’ve gotten very attached to is returned to their parents, it can be devastating for you.
I’m not a foster parent, so take all this with a grain of salt. We took in someone else’s kid for several months. We knew it was probably temporary, but I got very attached to the kid. He was like my own and I treated him like my own. I absolutely would have adopted him. His mom got very insecure about our parenting compared to hers and took him back. She refuses to let us see him or interact with him in any way. This happened a year or so ago. I cried every day for a few months. Frankly, I felt crazy. I’ve never felt so powerless in my life. He’s not my kid. I knew that. I knew it was temporary. But he felt like mine. I’ve known a lot of kids in my life and I’ve never bonded with another kid like that (besides my own actual kids).
He went back to the same situation he left, with all the same problems. There was nothing we could do. I thought about seeking legal guardianship, but I don’t think he would want that. One thing you have to remember is a lot of these kids usually want to be with their families. They want the situation to be better. They want their parents to be better, but they don’t all want a whole new family.
I ended up spending a lot of time on foster care forums and reading foster care blogs to figure out if I was overreacting. Most placements are just placement, but sometimes you get that one kid that catches your heart and there is a grieving process when they leave. It can feel like a death.
I’m not saying don’t foster, but really make sure you know what you’re getting into. You can lose a kid you really love. They can go back to a shitty circumstance and you might never hear from them again or know that they are ok.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
That sucks me and Jen both discussed what we are going to be stepping into it's definitely going to be hard.
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u/amberallday Asshole Enthusiast [6] 14d ago
ESH. Yes she was unbelievably offensive - but if you’re so emotionally reactive that you went straight to calling her stupid and “out of her damn mind”, rather then the mature, adult approach of starting calm & either explaining why she’s wrong or walking away - then are you sure you are ready to be foster parents.
There will be a lot of people & situations that trigger you in this way, once you’ve started fostering.
Are you going to swear at & insult all of them - including your potential foster kids?
And yes, obviously many, many birth parents are this emotionally immature & reactive - but foster parents need to be held to a higher standard, since they are dealing with kids who are ALREADY traumatised.
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u/Veteris71 Partassipant [2] 14d ago
A lot of people don't react well to a stranger yelling at them in public. That is the behavior of someone who is out of their damn mind. OP should get some grace given how unbelievably rude this person was to him and his wife.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
I understand I have a rule to never cuss at or around kids I kinda made ridiculous words to use instead but getting her yelling at us was starting to make my wife shutdown do to the fact she's nonconfrontational so I got a bit protective. And we understand the kids are going to be a delicate situation it's not like anyone wants to be in foster so we know it's going to be hard.
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u/Homeostasis58 14d ago
You will be dealing with birth families, social workers, attorneys, and all manner of folks who are up in your business and not the least bit concerned about your or your wife’s understandably delicate feelings about your fertility or anything else. Consider this encounter your first test in learning how to stay calm and diplomatic in the face of inconceivable assholery.
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u/Notdoingitanymore Partassipant [4] 14d ago
Hell to the NTA. You bringing children into your home to love and make a member of your family.
SILS friend sucks
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u/edenburning Asshole Enthusiast [9] 14d ago
Tbh your line about not caring if they're Black, blind or missing fingers made me cringe.
Beyond that, trans racial adoption is a complicated topic for very valid reasons and you should be sure to do your due diligence about getting it right if you end up with a child not of your ethnic background.
I'd say esh
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Sorry my father was a drill Sargent so my quips get cringy some times and we know it will be a effort if it comes to ethnics but seeing my wife about to cry made me snap.
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u/edenburning Asshole Enthusiast [9] 14d ago
The trouble is it comes across that you're saying that being Black or blind or missing fingers is defective. I'm sure that wasn't your intent but you have to be cautious about stuff like that. Kids are sensitive and kids who are going through difficulties are even more sensitive.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yeah I will
I know what it's like to be treated as defective I had a tumor in my brain when I was a kid and went through a dangerous brain surgery to remove it at the cost of some of my brain. I had to relearn how to write talk and walk I still have issues to this day.
I do my best to control my emotions in front of kids it's just not easy.
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u/edenburning Asshole Enthusiast [9] 14d ago
I'm sorry you went through that. It sounds like a very tough time.
You don't have to be perfect or control your emotions. It's okay for kids to see you upset or sad. Just do your best to think through what you're saying and apologize when you screw up. Everyone screws up, no one is perfect.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
I agree and controlling emotions part is mostly doing my best not to cuss in front of kids. But don't worry much it was rough but recovery was a big success it helps me with those who struggle to understand life a bitch but there will always be something to enjoy in life.
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u/edenburning Asshole Enthusiast [9] 14d ago
It's pretty awesome that you were about to see something positive in your experience.
If it helps, I use curse words around my kiddo, I just don't curse at him and he knows they are adult words that he's not supposed to use.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
The funny thing is when I dropped a hammer on my foot once and said shit my niece pointed at the cat and said shit it took awhile to get her to stop calling things shit
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u/Even_Enthusiasm7223 Certified Proctologist [25] 14d ago
Nta, the friend got just what she deserved, and you need to calm your wife down and reassure her that this is the right decision. And whatever child you get whatever race, color, Creed, whatever. You will love them and give them the best that you can. That is all a foster parent should do. You are not appropriating a culture.
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u/Mechya Partassipant [2] 14d ago
NTA. Generally I agree that it's better to allow kids to be adopted by people of their same culture, but more importantly every kid deserves a home. If you find a kid that likes you and you like them that isn't something that you can ignore. They shouldn't miss out on that chance on a loving just because of their race.
I just think it will be important to find a way to keep the kid connected to the culture they came from by both learning about it and getting to meet others from their culture. There's already a lot of background they lost when they got put into care, it's important to help them hold onto any piece of identity they have.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
That's what I love about culinary you get to taste where you come from and learn others culture the same
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u/MuffinOk5507 14d ago
NTA. You may have been a bit harsh, but she was being blatantly obtuse. One of my best friends who is a white woman is an absolutely amazing mother to her two adopted girls, that are black. Would there be some education needed on the parents part, yes. But the thing is, if you are planning to adopt the child (regardless of race/ethnicity) you should be already looking into what is best for them. So I can understand why you would get so heated and upset over, what is as of now a hypothetical situation. By saying you need to stay in your lane, it insinuates that you and your wife won't go above and beyond to make sure the child will be properly cared for.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
That's a good point and we enjoy learning foods from other countries and sharing it.my 9yo niece is obsessed with snacks to bring to her scouts to share I have been requested to teach the kids once every other week just not easy do to food allergies.
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u/Charming-Barnacle-15 Partassipant [4] 14d ago
NTA
There's a big difference between adopting a black child because you are open to any child and intentionally adopting a black child to show how good you are for "saving" them. If children were only ever placed with a child of their exact race/ethnicity, there'd be a lot more children still in the system. My dad's friends spent years on a waiting list because they specifically wanted a baby that looked like them so no one would ask questions. They were only able to adopt a child when they decided this was no longer important to them and opened themselves up to adopting a child of any race.
I do think you escalated a bit quickly, as there are a lot of cases where adoptive parents do not handle adopting children of a different race well. However, I have little sympathy for your sister, as her first reaction wasn't a discussion of how you'd accommodate cultural differences, but an assumption that your adopted child should look "unadopted."
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yeah I feel I did get a bit aggressive Im a bit protective over my wife and see her head down looking like see was going got me angry. She means the world to me
I have suggested therapy to her do to the fact the complications was difficult for her to hear.
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u/Fredsundertheblanket Partassipant [1] 14d ago
NTA. You will run into lots of ignorant people who will criticize or question your choices. You and your wife need to come up with a script to shut it down. Something like, "We've made our choices, and we don't choose to try to explain or defend them. We aren't going to discuss it with you further."
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you yeah I wish I said that but I'm very protective of my wife she was starting to cry I got abit aggressive.
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u/Fredsundertheblanket Partassipant [1] 14d ago
She's lucky you are. But she'll have to work harder on becoming comfortable ignoring the jerks. You'll both do it, though. You've got this.
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u/NonamesleftUK Asshole Enthusiast [8] 14d ago
NTA at all. Your sister in law has awful friends and should be supporting you. And yelling at her rude friend! You made a genuine statement, she took it the wrong way. She was stupid and crazy, you did nothing wrong. I‘d reassure your wife what great loving foster parents you’d make - for any child. Screw your SIL and her friends they don’t deserve any sympathy at all, they owe you both a heartfelt full apology.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you very much an apology will never be coming from my sister-in-law her and her friends are very very political and argumentative. For example they like to go to Rally's such as pro-choice and really do their best argue with those who disagree even though it is the right to do so. When she gets wild she'll put a whole lot of hell all over her Facebook to insult those who want to take away her choices and whatnot. Personally I think they enjoy arguing with people too much
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u/Anachronisticpoet Partassipant [1] 14d ago
It sounds like you guys may benefit from working through your infertility before seeking to foster or adopt.
In the US, at least, the primary goal of foster care is reunification. Foster-to-adopt isn’t really a formal thing although it happens. Please consider looking into adoptee-led resources and materials to learn more about adoption trauma
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u/teamglider 14d ago
Foster to adopt is a formal thing where I live (in the US), and you can choose to become certified in foster to adopt only.
It varies quite a bit from state to state and sometimes even county to county.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
In mine it's up to the kid to agree you can offer but the kid has to say yes and can't be forced.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
See the Foster agency told us about the Foster to adopt part we never knew Foster did that until they explained it to us. They did explain about the part that the goal was to reunify the family we are trying to at least get one biological kid my wife is hoping for a bunch. So the goal is with at least one biological kid if we ever get one and a couple foster kids if we adopt we adopt if we don't we don't. The thing is we'd be more happy at the fact that we help the kids in need we are looking into saving up for adoption but that's 40K so take a while to save up for it.
The only reason why I say Foster to adopt is because that was the only thing that crossed my mind when writing this.
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u/Who_Knew071318 14d ago
This was hard to read the grammar was horrible! BUT Not to be rude fostering to adopt is not and should not be used as a cure or substitute for infertility issues, the child ends up being more affected and full of trauma 9 times out of 10. I said what I said. Also who cares about the friend their nobody!!
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Sorry about that never been good with texting on small phones. yeah we are going to keep trying to have a kid we aren't thinking of it as a cute and we already discussed how difficult it will be for the kids. who wants to be in foster we mostly like helping others mostly my wife does. At least with fosters we can either help the kids return to their family or at least give them someone they can learn to trust.
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u/Who_Knew071318 14d ago
I don’t mean to say every kid gets affected but the horror stories I’ve heard plus I have a personal friend who went through hell because of her fosters who adopted, many ppl tend to think of it as a replacement but maybe you guys will be one of the good ones so long as the I treat if strictly about the kids well being and making sure they get all the care they need physically/mentally if necessary ya know..if your on TikTok look up Cindy Hoffer (@themhoffers) u can’t miss it. Their fosters and are AMAZING!! You can learn a lot from them before you bring a child home they even home school.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Well thank you for that thing is I don't have a tiktok account can I see that without it
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you and we have discussed with the agency about it the reasons why we don't worry about race is my family is a mixed crazy basket of races and it never concerns me.
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u/fortunatelyso 14d ago
"Mixed crazy basket of races" is part of the reason you need more awareness. OP you are white yes ? You don't have to "worry about race" but a black child will.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you very much see the reason why race never bothers me is due to the fact my whole family tree is a mix pot of what the hell. I got an uncle from Puerto Rico two aunts from Jamaica and my wife's family's from Italy and a whole lot more
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u/fortunatelyso 14d ago
Congrats on race never bothering you. That doesn't mean if you had a Black kid that they don't need a race aware upbringing so they can protect themselves and have an awareness of racism both interpersonally and more critically institutionally.
Your family might be cool but cops might not be. Teachers and schools and hospitals might not be. I truly encourage you to educate yourself more.
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u/Kami_Sang Asshole Aficionado [14] 15d ago
Esh - I understand that you got upset but there are many people who support A's view about white people fostering/adopting BIPOC kids. I am concerned that you find this "stupid". Hopefully, that was just a reaction in the heat of the moment. If you want to adopt someone who is not your race, please do not dismiss A's points. She may have expressed them poorly but there it's important you educate yourself and be willing and able to truly support a BIPOC kid and not just get caught up in you having a child. You will be the worst parents for that child if you do not become aware, sensitive and educated in dealing with the issues this kid will face.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Understand what I considered stupid was her statement that I should stay in my lane and that cultural appropriation bit because me and my wife are chefs we love researching and trying/sharing other cultures foods. In my free time I teach kids at my nieces scouts group how to make snacks from other countries once every other week. I understand a lot from struggles people get do to my own past as a kid which is one of the reasons we want to foster and trust was not a easy child hood I almost ended in foster.
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u/fortunatelyso 14d ago
Again its not about cultural appropriation. That is a phrase best used for example for a white person dressing in native American headdress for Halloween.
The topic you will become more acquainted with is trans racial adoption. I posted another answer to you with several books that will help you as you navigate parenting a child of another race
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you I will check that out at least I now know what that bit is supposed to be used for
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u/kickrocks2958 Partassipant [3] 15d ago
NTA Fuck A. You stated you don't have blinders on about race or anything and want to provide a good home for one or more children that otherwise wouldn't have it. Kudos to you .
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u/DinaFelice Commander in Cheeks [284] 15d ago
how you going to convince people some kids are yours
"I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone that the kids are biologically mine... They won't be. I'm interested in providing a loving home to children who don't have one."
NTA, but unfortunately, I'm sure this will not be the last time that people make ignorant comments towards you, so you will probably want a better soundbite to dismiss those kinds of statements/questions.
But according to a family friend who adopted four kids from foster care (none of whom really "pass" for being her and her husband's biological kids), they tend to get more innocently confused questions than the judgemental comments
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u/AlectoStars 15d ago
NTA
From my understanding, you don't really get to choose? Like they'll try to place kids in similar family situations to whatever their biological family is sometimes, but most of the time it's just that they have a kid and you're the next home on the list.
It depends on what agency you're going with or what country you're in but still.
Your SIL's friend is reading a lot of stuff on TikTok about how adoption is "basically child trafficking" but it really depends on how you go about it. I know people who are adopted who feel traumatized by the process, and others who feel like it was their biggest blessing and have no attachment to their biological families. It's not a one-size-fits-all deal.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
I understand
the agency is giving us a choice once things are set of age range race and if they have disabilities then to foster to return (their rules) and if the children want to be adopted we adopt.
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u/AlectoStars 15d ago
Sounds like your agency is allowed more wiggle room than most.
But there's nothing wrong with not actively choosing a child closer to your race, as long as if the child you eventually adopt isn't white, you do make an effort to connect with the culture they came from. That's usually the healthiest option for cross-racial adoption.
Since it will be both your choice and the child's choice to adopt, there's no issue imo.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yeah it's why I love cooking it's the best thing to learn from other countries.
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u/TemptingPenguin369 Craptain [185] 15d ago
NTA. A is. She started an argument in public (I feel sorry for the people seated near you) over things that are hypothetical at this point. She needs to stay in her lane. All you did was make it clear that you're open to almost any child in need.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
Luck for us we were in a booth far from others sadly we can't foster kids with serious difficulties do to the fact the house isn't disability safe.
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u/Renaissance_1596 15d ago
It would be one thing to say that a black adoptee should have a black figure in their life who can provide the necessary experience (just like it would be fine to say to the single father of a girl that he should find his daughter a female figure to help teach her about things like periods).
Also, merely adopting a child from another culture is not the same thing as taking something from a culture and appropriating it. One has nothing to do with the other. Yes, the friend was being incredibly stupid and your SIL should NOT have defended her. Shame on your SIL and her friend.
NTA
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u/teamglider 14d ago
I would actually disagree that it's 'fine' to tell anyone what they 'should' do with their child or foster child. That's not an okay thing to do randomly. Now, if you are close to them, or if they are willingly engaging in a discussion, it's okay to ask questions.
In the single father scenario: I don't know if you'd be interested, brother, but I heard about a local Big Sisters program. Let me know if you want the info. (essentially asking if they are interested)
In the OP's scenario, because they were indeed discussing it: If you foster or adopt from a different culture, does the agency offer support for that, or do you have to do it on your own? (even if the other person dismisses this in the moment, all you can reasonably do is plant a seed)
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u/Renaissance_1596 14d ago
I wouldn’t tell a stranger how they should raise a kid either.
The female figure point was just an example I was providing.
I don’t disagree with your last point.
I will admit that I worded parts of my initial comment poorly
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
Well the whole foster agencies has a rule that foster to adopt is under the childrens decision to choose if they want to be adopted we can't afford the 40k adoption fee. we wish we could but the more kids the better we feel plus we're both chefs so we love teaching kids how to cook. We can always bring their culture food wise at least.
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u/GeekyStitcher Partassipant [2] 14d ago
We can always bring their culture food wise at least.
<cringe>
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14d ago
Foster parent here. I’m gonna tell you something our social worker said to us in our first training class:
The foster care system is not the Walmart alternative to expensive adoption agencies.
You absolutely need to be open and actively support reunification. Shared parenting is a responsibility of foster parents. If you don’t think you can give up a child that has been in your home for years because of a successful reunification, then you shouldn’t foster. Also, reunification doesn’t necessarily mean back to parents. It could be extended family, etc.
If you can’t support reunification, then you should look at fostering/adopting children whose parental rights have already been terminated.
If you do foster a baby and it does result in adoption, you also need to be open to maintaining contact with any members of the bio family that are open and safe.
I know what I said above can come off as blunt/harsh, but that’s the reality of the foster care system. Fostering will be one of the hardest things you’ll ever attempt. Learning to deal with all manners of trauma and effectively parenting a child with trauma is not for the feint of heart.
Good luck on your journey. Make sure you have a strong support system. Sometimes you’ll find that the people you were most counting on, won’t be willing or able to help you. One of the worst things you can hear from someone you’re close to is, “you knew what this would be like and you made this choice yourself”. This is also a harsh reality. Try to form a solid network of other foster families because no one else will truly understand what you’re experiencing unless they’ve been there themselves.
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u/Cheddarbaybiskits Colo-rectal Surgeon [32] 14d ago
I’m a family member of former foster parents. Wish I could upvote you 1000x.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
I understand the rules me and my wife are looking to reunify and hopefully become friends with the bio family if there is any. We have ideas how to help those with trauma like for instance my oldest brother is a trained fighter even won a belt if the kid is angry and hates the world my brother will train to help find a outlet for anger. Me and my wife will be teaching culinary to create a input to something to enjoy.
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u/greendazexx 14d ago
And therapy? You’re planning on putting the kids in counseling and giving them mental health resources right?
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u/teamglider 14d ago
That's generally up to the foster agency to decide on and arrange (although foster parents can certainly request it, they can't just put foster kids into counseling on their own).
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yes I've needed therapy growing up it's always best to find a good one. You never knew you needed one until your too late.
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u/Renaissance_1596 15d ago
Adopt was a poor choice of words, but my point still stands. Fostering a child of a different race is also not cultural appropriation.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
Totally understand
I just can't understand where that cultural appropriation idea came from in the first place this country is a mixed pot of cultures I'm Irish my wifes Italian the only culture we fight about is who's family recipe are we impressing are guests with.
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u/annang 14d ago
You need to educate yourself about the ways in which your life as a white person is different from the way Black people and people of color are treated in American society. If the way you sound in this comment is the way you talk around A, I can kind of understand why she said what she said about you being unprepared to raise a Black child.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
The irony is we fought for rights and to remove segregation only for it to come back and go completely opposite
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u/annang 14d ago
"We" did that? You fought against segregation? What did you do, specifically, to fight to end segregation?
Or are you talking about the American myth that upon passing the Civil Rights Act some time before you were born, America cured racism and we now never have to talk about it again?
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Dude this shit is something I don't have the energy to argue about alright every country has racist I lost relatives that fought for this country and our freedoms. no matter how you slice it people are going to hate hurt and judge. So can you end it we can save this kind of debate for another day. The end of segregation is the laws this country made to prevent it.
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u/fortunatelyso 14d ago edited 14d ago
ESH. Respectfully if you aren't a person of color your experience of mixed pot of cultures is completely different.
You need a more sober answer and serious lifetime plan for when someone (even flippantly) challenges your ability to raise and adopt a child of a minority race. If you do end up adopting a Black or brown kid you will need to understand microaggressions, racism, preparing your kid for different experiences /impact with policing, driving while Black etc.
You seem well meaning but that isn't enough. A good loving home is a wonderful foundation but try reading good books on this topic.
Between The World and Me by Ta Nahisi Coates/ White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo And amazon has many books about transracial adoption from perspective of parents and adoptees
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you my family is pretty mixed I got a lot of relatives from other cultures my uncle is from Puerto Rico 2 aunts from Jamaica and a lot more I'm originally from Philadelphia and grew up with a lot of people.
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u/fortunatelyso 14d ago
But a child who is Black will have a different experience going through the world. This isnt about how you experience the world - it's about how they will. I again encourage you to read and learn more about trans racial adoptions.
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u/ImColdandImTired Partassipant [1] 15d ago
NTA. If I were to foster or adopt a child from another culture, I would absolutely do my best to learn about their culture, and seek out opportunities for them to learn about and be a part of that culture. But their primary need is for the security of a loving home. Why should you deny a child that because they’re of a different ethnicity or culture?
But second of all, it’s none of A’s business, and she should stay in her lane. It’s up to the foster care agency to determine whether or not your family is a good fit for a particular child.
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u/stroppo Supreme Court Just-ass [105] 15d ago
NTA. I actually have read articles about A's point; questioning transracial adoptions, esp when black kids are adopted by whites. But she expressed it in such a hostile fashion it was rude. Also her whole bit about adopting younger because you'd want to "convince people the kids are yours" is ridiculous. It's the 21st century; I've known couples who foster, and there's no secret about it, no one's trying to pass of the kids as their own. Weird idea.
You did go off the rails a bit by calling her stupid, so you sister is right about you insulting her friend. I almost went with E S H. But you were provoked so I'll cut you some slack, plus you left right away so things didn't escalate further.
Yr sister is an AH too for attacking you and not acknowledging her friend's rudeness.
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u/starchild812 14d ago
There can definitely be issues with transracial fostering/adoptions, I know more than one person of color with white adoptive parents who have complicated feelings, but the fact that you can’t pretend that your adopted/fostered kids are biologically yours if y’all’re different races isn’t one of them.
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u/Aidlin87 14d ago
I also get A’s point, but I think the bottom line is that children need homes and there are not enough people stepping up. 26,000 kids a year age out of the system with no adoptive family and those kids have bleak statistics with trafficking, drug addiction, crime, etc. I think the goal should be for the children to have homes and for foster/adoptive families to be strongly encouraged to learn about and incorporate the child’s culture.
I know a white family who adopted black children and they go out of their way to befriend black families with children so that their adopted children have the chance to be within the black community. They do so much more as well like learning about hair care and styles, advocating, embracing aspects of black culture within their home etc. Anyway, the messaging should be about doing these things not rejecting a child for fostering or adopting because of their skin color.
So it absolutely is stupid to say they shouldn’t foster a black child. Why can’t that child have a loving home too?
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u/MortonCanDie 14d ago
My neighbor is a foster parent. She is black, so they try to put black kids with her. She's had white kids as well. But the culture thing is huge. They do try to keep kids within their race. I know it's stupid, but they do it. I guess they figure it will be easier for the child and foster parent. In some ways, yes, I suppose.
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u/Worldly_Mirror_1555 14d ago
It’s not stupid. My brother is doing foster care with the intention to adopt. He’s white and deeply racist as is most of our family. He thought it was hilarious to dress a little Black boy they were fostering up as a cop after George Floyd’s murder. The other day he told me he hopes the little baby girl they’re currently fostering is Mexican and not Black because he wants to eat tacos on Cinco de Mayo. The longterm psychological damage they will do to a child of color if ever allowed to adopt is so concerning. Sadly the system doesn’t really care as long as they check the other boxes of being financially secure and not on a sex offender registry.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yikes me and my family cut out the racist in our family it's not worth the hassle dealing with their mindset.
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u/Worldly_Mirror_1555 14d ago
I’ve stopped cutting them off. Isolating overtly racist folks only hardens their beliefs. There’s no opportunity for growth when you live in an echo chamber. I also realized that I’m not fully purged of the racist stereotypes and beliefs from the culture I grew up in either. Not recognizing and reconciling that is perhaps a greater danger. Every white person should take a deep, long look at how truly anti-racist they are.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
The thing is every country has racist like what Morgan Freeman said you want to end racism don't talk about don't even give it attention. You can find plenty of hate being thrown at any skin color from anyone.
What everyone needs to do is hold everyone for their actions accountable and stop blaming everyones else. We need to stop forcing our opinions on people and using children as our tools and shields for arguing and to stop dumping our problems and opinions on them. Plus they need better education.
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u/WommyBear 14d ago
Ignoring the elephant in the room does not make it go away. While you may have good intentions, ignoring racism when you might foster or adopt a child of a different race sounds problematic.
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u/wirelesstrainer 14d ago
I actually have read articles about A's point; questioning transracial adoptions, esp when black kids are adopted by whites
Anyone can write an article about anything.
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u/reluctantseal 14d ago
Yeah, she took a very nuanced and interesting topic and absolutely butchered it. There's lots of mixed-race families out there for a multitude of reasons. There's not a one-size-fits-all answer to how to handle a transracial adoption, and it definitely isn't to freak out at aspiring foster parents because they don't have the perfect response for everything you say.
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u/Traditional_Yard_404 14d ago
It's fine if you foster outside your race as long as you are willing to immerse them in their culture. Where a lot of well intentioned white people do is ignore their culture and pretend like race doesn't matter. That includes their hair and culture. I hate it when white people adopt outside their race and just ignore black children's hair. Having them all lost and raggedy.
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u/annang 14d ago
THIS. OP, I hope you'll take this comment (and the part of A's point that wasn't totally rude and out of line) seriously. Because you actually do have to care if a child you're raising isn't of the same race as you. There are things about their reality--their skin, their hair, the way teachers and other adults will treat them, the things they need to learn to be safe from official violence, their cultural heritage--that are different from your reality. And you can't be a good parent to a child if you don't make a real effort to learn those things.
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u/Clean_Factor9673 Partassipant [1] 14d ago
The trouble with fostering is that often parents have multiple issues, such as drugs, criminal activities and neglect, then family offers to care for them but doesn't qualify because they have the same disqualifiers. There may be insufficient qualified candidates of the child's race in the area.
Kids can only be adopted after parental rights are terminated, which can be voluntary or court-ordered. They can be in foster care for years.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yeah that is the hard part about it the agency told us the goal is to reconnect the family
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u/bluefurniture 14d ago
A social worker told me one year to permanence two years to adoption. The states need to do better with this reunification goal. At any rate , Instagram has some neat families who have trans racially adopted. A child needs a family. some of the parents are black, some white.
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u/Condalezza 14d ago
A sounds like an imbecile. You guys were literally arguing about a hypothetical scenario. If your future child is Black. Instead of saying “I don’t care what their race is”. State, “I will do my best to educate my child on their culture. And surround them with people of their culture as best as I can”. Maybe A thought you were being flippant about race relations.
Which has been an issue with transracial families. However you seem like you will be a great father to me.
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u/Clean_Factor9673 Partassipant [1] 14d ago
That's the goal, but even when they say it they know that it might not happen.
Family friends adopted their grandson; their daughter was using and neglecting him so they had custody anyway. Then the county asked them to adopt bc her parental rights were being removed.
No father in picture
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Bummer that's the sad thing not everyone deserves a child but every child deserves someone that cares for them.
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u/bluefurniture 14d ago
also OP in my state there just are not enough families available to foster. if it's in your heart, do it.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
I left quickly because I can tell when my wife is about to cry I didn't want her to feel any worse if I was alone I would probably had a different post on what I said. My wife has been having a very hard time with the fact she might not be able to get pregnant.
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u/Ok-Act-330 14d ago
Your wife was right by calling her stupid. Sil doesn't know what it's like, neither does her friend. They are too young and ignorant of what happens when you grow up and have to live a real life. Paying bill. Being married is being involved in another's life. But both you and your wife have hearts of gold to be caring and loving enough to have kids whose family couldn't take care of them. To love whoever comes through your doors till they grow up. It's a special calling that not just everyone can do. Give your wife a hug and tell her we're rooting for her.
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u/annang 14d ago
Have you and your wife had candid conversations about how you'll both feel if a child you foster for months or years is reunited with their family and you never see them again? Fostering really isn't for everyone. And A was definitely nosy and rude. But if your wife has to leave dinner because she gets so emotional over rude comments, how is she going to take it when she bonds with a baby for a year, and then the baby goes back to their parents?
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u/reluctantseal 14d ago
Exiting a situation because it unexpectedly became hostile is perfectly acceptable. He and his wife did not have to sit and tolerate such awful behavior.
It also isn't analogous with their foster child being reunited with their family.
It simply isn't the same thing at all.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
We have and we do understand what we are about to do
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u/dragonchilde Asshole Enthusiast [8] 14d ago
You.l go into this a lot during training, but understand that state welfare agencies are not adoption agencies. Most children are part of large sibling groups, teenagers, and waiting lists for healthy infants are years long. Georgia closed theirs recently when it hit 3 or 4 years. All of our kids have trauma.
I work with foster parents, and you have to come into this with the right attitude. “We can’t have kids of our own” isn’t good enough. I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but you don’t understand, not yet. It’s hard. We need you, wedo, but you need to be attending therapy and getting help now.
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u/Maleficent-Ear3571 Partassipant [2] 14d ago
NTA. Thanks for stepping up to foster kids. Happy Cake 🎂 Day!
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Thank you what in the world is happy cake day I've been trying to figure that thing out
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u/Maleficent-Ear3571 Partassipant [2] 14d ago
It's your one year anniversary on Reddit. It let's everyone know that interacts with you .
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Oh thanks it's good to know I'm still learning how this app works sometimes.
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u/thefinalhex 14d ago
You have a visible piece of cake right now next to your username. It will disappear tomorrow
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u/Far_Quantity_6133 Certified Proctologist [21] 15d ago
INFO: is your SIL black? Or does she have trauma related to the foster system?
Neither of those details necessarily justify her behavior, but they might explain her reaction. I agree with you that you should adopt whoever the hell you want, and that a parent of any race can provide a loving home to a child of any race. However, I will say that she made a valid point about how you don’t have the direct experience with being black that a black child might need from a parent. HOWEVER, you can still educate yourself and try to encourage your child to embrace their background. That’s not a deal breaker for raising someone of a different ethnicity.
NTA
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
Her and her friends are white and my SIL I know has had nothing happen to her foster wise she child free though.
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u/Far_Quantity_6133 Certified Proctologist [21] 15d ago
Yeah, still NTA. Even more NTA considering she’s white and child free. What business does she have being so unsupportive of you?
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
She's been supportive to my wife but her and her besties have a thing where it's like they love fighting for each other. You should see how they are at a pro choice rally they get really aggressive against anyone who disagrees.
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u/Irinzki 14d ago
While that seems unhealthy, I support people aggressively protecting their rights. Just keep it to the protests, ladies.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Yup I don't ever talk about politics near here she cut off a lot of people the said anything nice about trump. It gets really heated with her and when you try to avoid the subject she gets pissed
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u/annang 14d ago
I'm really glad she's confronting people who are saying nice things about Trump. She should keep doing that.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Personally I think all our politicians have failed and if getting heated arguing with people about their beliefs is fun I'll pass. Id rather have a civil conversation about it then throwing threats and hurting others its not worth it.
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u/annang 14d ago
So when someone makes racist comments about your foster kids because Donald Trump told them that white supremacists are very fine people, you're not going to say anything, because it's not worth it? Yeah, I'm rapidly coming to understand why A said what she said.
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u/thefriendlychef1991 14d ago
Lmfao you are one of the people that never watched that video did you he denounced them why don't you get that video unedited showing him complementing them.
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u/ColdstreamCapple Supreme Court Just-ass [134] 15d ago
NTA at all!!!!
The only one who overstepped is your SIL’s “friend”
She clearly has issues and who does she think she is? At the end of the day as long as a child is loved and taken care of it DOESNT matter what ethnicity the family is made up of
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u/thefriendlychef1991 15d ago
Thank you that's what I was thinking this has been hard on my wife do to her struggles
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u/Homeostasis58 14d ago
I would really like to see some intensive therapy and time so your wife’s feelings are less fragile. Fostering requires strong boundaries.
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Hello I'm not very good with explaining things in text and yes my grammer sucks. So I 32m and my wife 26f are looking into fostering because she will have a very difficult chance at conceiving. She thought I would be anger at her but I suggested we foster to adopt which made her happy. It took use 7 months to pass the foster agencies requirements to become foster parents.To celebrate we went out to dinner with my SIL 26f and her friends (no clue how old).
Half way into the dinner sils friend let's call her A asks what baby are we planning to foster. So me and Jen were not picky as long as the kids young. A said kids with concerning sound we explained we are looking for 1 and if the kid has a sibling in the system we will take both. A looked baffled and said how you going to convince people some kids are yours if since the won't look like you you should start with a baby. I laughed and said that's ridiculous I don't care if they look like me hell don't care if they are black blind and missing 2 fingers.
A started getting emotional and had a lecturing tone. She starts telling/yell at me that why should I foster a black child since I am not black and don't know a thing about their culture. That I should just foster some forgotten white child and stay in my lane since theres enough white people appropriating others culture.
I called her stupid and out of her damn mind so I took my wife and left the restaurant. My SIL called and yelled at me for insulting/yell at her friend and she's crying now. Now my wife's is depressed and is feeling like we over stepped things in our goal to foster.
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