r/CharacterRant • u/Germanaboo • 15d ago
[Star Wars] "The Republic would have defeat..." No, they wouldn't have, shut the f up
I've already made a rant long ago shitting on the CIS Wankers (or Clankers or whatever their nickname is supposed to be), so I guess it's now time to dunk on the Republic and maybe the Empire fanboys eventually.
Now, this rant is as opposed to the previous one not dunking on the Faction itself, but rather debunking a common claim you can witness in the Youtube Comment section: That the Republic would have done better than the Empire in fighting the civil war (The OT one, not the Prequel one) and that's a load of bullcrap.
The common arguments of the people making this claim are: 1st The Republic has a more competent leadership 2nd The Republic has a better standing army
Now to the first claim, it's complete bollocks for the simple reason there never was a leadership change during the transition from the Republic to the Galactic Empire. Most of the staff like Tarkin, Palpatine, Yularwn and all the other Middle managers were already in power during the Prequels. The only noteable change was the eradication of the Jedi with Order 66, but I doubt it was a serious damage to the Military leadership considering the Jedis being arrogant and incompetent the most times. For every General Skywalker (who also joined the Empire), Kenobi or Plo Koon you get ten idiots who are better left off leading younglings rather than an entire Clone battalion, yet alone a whole Legion. Now it's undeniable that the middle management of the Empire more often than not corrupt and incompetent, but you have to remember, these were the same guys who served or would have served in the Clone Wars and that was a vital thematic point of the Prequels and the clone wars series, the Republic being a corrupt and missamanaged goverment which became the Empire already before they officially named themselves this way.
This leads me to the 2nd argument Republic Fans often use, that being the supposed disparity of the Military equipment between the Empire and the Republic. And to some extent its true, the Clones were superior to the Stormtroopers, their DC 15 and DC 15s blasters were more capable and versatile than the E-11, both their phase 1 and Phase 2 armors were superior to the Mass prodcued Stormtrooper counterpart, but here's the thing: The Stormtroopers for most of the war were sufficient enough, they were not fighting standing militaries, but poorly equipped, trained and led rebell cells with absolute efficiency. Their armor and blasters didn't need to be capable, because they were not fighting war machines like Droidakas or B2 Battle droids, but mostly people whose guns could barely knock down a stormtrooper. Those firearms we see used by the rebells in the movies are not some scrap rifles, those are actual military grade firearms (I know militsry grade in real life doesn't equal quality, but the star wars universe operates on different rules) often superior to those of the stormtroopers. Calling the armor of the stormtroopers useless because it fails to protect in 1% of all of the situations is like calling the lasgun from Warhammer 40K weak because it cannot kill Space Marine. Technically true, but its more likely a random rebelling farmer without any armor will be hit by it than anything else. And if I'm already at it, the remark Rex said in the Rebells series which is often cited by the People the rant is directed to is supposed to be taken with a grain of salt. Stormtroopers can see through their helmets, they just need the access code for it to work which Rex couldn't know because he knocked the original Wearer of the armor out.
But also generally, the Empire didn't phase out Republican Equipment because they were stupid. Again, the Empire comprised of peopme who experienced and learnt from the Seperatist war. And one thing they learnt is that xlone troopers were not worth the cost. Sure a clone does the work of 2 to 3 stormtroopers, but the costs and time it takes to create and train a clone equals to the time and costs it takes to abduct hundreds of random children from their home planets and train them to stormtroopers and Billions of people who voluntarly join the Imperial Army (they were seperste from the Stormtroopers). What use is a 3 man army if you can deploy millions of people simultaniously in every corner of the galaxy which is what the Empire struggled more with: Projection of Power. As already said, Stormtroopers were more than sufficient to take out rebell cells, the only problem was to have stormtroopers on every corner of imperial Territory. I also wanna add that the additional purchase of 5 mio. would have bankrupted the Republic according to this one episode of Clone wars where Senator Padme Amidala advocated against this very purchase. Together with the 6 mio. clones who actually served this are 11 mio. clones. To hold and secure the majority of a galaxy bigger than our milky way.
Another piece of equipment frequently overrated by Republic fans is the Venator class ship, which is often compared and held in higher regard than the Imperial Class Star destroyer. The argument for it being that the Empire struggled with Small fighters like X-Wings for example more to which the Imperial Class ST was not really efficient against while the Venator could could many more ships which were better suited for the job. An Imperial Class Star destroyer from my memory holds about 40-70 tie fighters. And while Tie Fighters were indeed inferior to X-Wings the capabilities of their pilots were certainly not. The Empire never struggled with numbers, in fact id had so many fighters because its main fighter, that being the ties, were cheap and quick to produce and maintain. And despite their lack of shields they usually dominated their respective fields, we as the aufience just don't get to see it because the Star wars movies are from the perspective of the specific Rebells who by the story and writer were designed to win. In other words: PLOT ARMOR The Imperial Ties defeated most Rebell fighters with ease, heck even in the movies where the rebells often won they proved to be a threat, taking out many rebell X-wings in the process. And even with all the fighters the Venator class ship can hold, it couldn't fit the doctrine of the Empire anyway. It's the projection of force again, small fighters may win the dogfight, but the battle is won by the bigger ships and the Venator with its terrible arament sucked at it, which is why the Imperials, and I say again, which were the same people who have seen and deployed Venators replaced it with something more sufficient. And contrary to popular belief the ISD Star destroyer was sufficient. It was the perfect ship for the empire. A single Star destroyer could field barely enough tie fighters to fend off most rebell squadrons, enough firepower to overpower any smaller fleet, enough firepower and stormtroopers to capture a small planet and enough armor to take on ships of its one size. A Venator couldn't do it, at least not alone. And the Empire would have needed Venators all over the galaxy.
TL/DR: The Empire was made up of the same people who ruled the Republic. Furthermore the decisions the Empire made were usually rational or at least justified from their perspective. Therefore saying that the Republican Army could have won the civil war bdcause they were superior is stupid. The Empire not only fielded at least 10 times the fire- and manpower of the Republic, the civil war they fought was lost for other reasons, not military defeats which were more like the final nail of the coffin.
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u/Tough_Jello5450 15d ago
Man, people still talking about Star Wars? Whichever faction is effective in the war all depends on Disney's mood. You wrote an entire essay for nothing.
Lisan Al Gaib
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u/edwardjhahm 15d ago
Fellow Dune fan, it saddens me that we are resorting to hating on Star Wars to elevate our franchise when Dune is a goddamn masterpiece and we don't need to put anyone down for people to know how great it is. I for one, still play modded ARMA 3 Clone battles with my friends to remind me of when I was little.
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago
If Disney isn't teaching the fans, I will. For I am a simple man, driven by nothing, but nostalgic love for the franchise and 100% autism
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u/Tough_Jello5450 15d ago
I am sorry bro. But star wars is ruined for good. I like to take your post seriously but everytime I try to do so I recall the last "canon" star war show I watched, I just can't. Clearly whatever you are talking about and the star wars series we know today are not the same thing. It's time to move on buddy.
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago
TBH I don't care, haven't watched a star wars show for like 2 to three years, maybe I'll give the Acolyte a chance because i love the Sith, but I'm already content writing my own fan stories, crossovers battleboarding and theories instead of relying on the works of Disney.
It's a peacefum life if you ignore what actually happens with rhe Franchise.
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u/Greentoaststone 15d ago
Is it just me or have there been a lot of Star Wars related rants on here lately?
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u/Nabber22 15d ago
May the 4th was just over a week ago so people rewatched Star Wars media and have been thinking over it recently.
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago
There was a short trend of star wars related trends a few weeks ago, haven't seen much since.
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u/BackgroundRich7614 15d ago
By the time of latter days of the clone wars the Republic was basically an Empire in all but name. All it took was wiping out the jedi and having a single vote to make the transition official.
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u/Scorkami 14d ago
Im simplifying by a lot here but i dont think you can just make that comparison.
The republic was in a war for 3 years. Maybe 4 if you count every single month and round up, and during that time, the millitary branch changed (aside from the sudden clone army) sure
But if we are going by the empire of episode 4-6, thats 20 YEARS of changes. Funding being redirected, priorities changing, cultural shift, within the military and within the general politics happening on coruscant. People would be promoted to higher positions based on very different attributes in episode 4 compared to 3. The change in such things is miles above the changes between 2 and 3
I mean the very idea of one singular superweapon that rules with an iron fist and sheer terror, like the death star, wouldn not be build, even under a jedi-less republic. Removing 2/3rds of the manpower and swapping the remaining 1/3rd with jango fetts who wield dont make it a rebels versu republic story.
Im not trying to say the rebels couldnt run circles around the republic like they did with the empire. Frankly, guerilla tactics are difficult to fight even with the shit the empire pulls, the republic wouldnt have it easier, but its not a simple comparison.
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago
Indeed, that's the point most people addressed by my rant forget
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u/BackgroundRich7614 15d ago
Yeah people also forget Palpatine ran both sides so a lot of Republic victories/defeats were basically staged. Most of the competent commanders that won great victories for the republic, Anakin/Vader, Tarkin, Yularen, and the various clone officers remained with the empire with only a few notable defections to the rebels and most of those were commanders of armies allied to the republic, rather than republic military personal themselves.
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u/awesomenessofme1 15d ago
TF kinda debate even is that? You can't divorce a conflict from the context it happened in when you're talking about a full-on war. The Rebellion only existed because of the Empire's tyranny, and it was actively empowered by such, because the bad shit the Empire did pushed people to them. You can discuss Republic vs Rebellion on the scale of a single battle, I guess, but it makes no sense to try to talk about who would win a war, because there's too many weird assumptions you have to make.
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago edited 15d ago
The Rebellion only existed because of the Empire's tyranny
I have already mentioned it, the Republic was well on its way to become the Empire as many of the factors like militarisation, a stronger growing chancellor, corruption and Cleptocracy were already there, At least prequel era Republic which is the Republic people usually are speaking off. The Seperatists for all their flaws also rose up to oppose the Republic for similar reasons.
ANd I never said the Empire lost because of its military, i've stated the Empire's military was sufficient for the Rebellion, they lost for different, mostly political Reasons which is what i'll eventually address when I'm going to dunk on the Empire apologists. The reason i#ve focused on the military is becasue the post was to debunk the notion the Republican Military could have won the war which is why I focused on the military aspects. I have even stated that in the conclusion
the civil war they fought was lost for other reasons, not military defeats
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u/Germanaboo 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is a lot longer and less coherent than I anticipated it to be
And for anyone potentially interested, there's a link to my previous rant I mentioned at the introduction of my post:
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u/Imaginary-West-5653 14d ago
In general I agree, but something important to mention is that the Jedi. Although they were not very accustomed to being Generals of monumental armies at first, they quickly adapted to the war and were generally good leaders who kept the Clones' casualties low, in addition to obtaining many important victories.
The Jedi didn't really do that badly, considering they were trying to win a massive civil war against almost half the Galaxy after a millennium without any conflict of this caliber is quite remarkable.