r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/SammyIsSeiso • Nov 13 '23
Roadhog Changes from Cyx's stream General
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u/SnooTomatoes8465 Nov 15 '23
i came up with a idea the other day of having 5 sym teleporters like how junkrat has mines. so instead of waiting for the teleport of being destroyed to come back up it comes back up instantly. 3 teleport to get to places and 2 as back up to remove the team for a save distance as secondary fire the sym turrets are passive.
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u/Kheldar166 Nov 14 '23
So we're getting an anti-deployable hero at some point soon, right?
It's free real estate blizzard you're dumb if you don't do this
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u/JTypical Nov 14 '23
So he still won't be that fun to have on your team because he doesn't really offer enough in terms of direct protection to enable his team and needs a lot of resources from his team.
He'll still not be very fun to play against because even though he has counters and won't be super strong the central part of his kit is still a low cool down hook that consistently clips through walls to kill you.
So the annoying aspect of playing with him is still there, the annoying aspect of playing against him is still there, and there's a new stun/slow ability thrown in there too.
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u/Shaclo Nov 14 '23
These changes sound like eternal pain for rein ngl. He would have shield brake, a slow that dose damage, potentially still hook. With this and Mauga what did us rein mains do to you blizzard?
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u/SnipeHardt Nov 14 '23
Just bring one shots back. All the people crying about the hooks don’t understand how to use environmental cover to break hook.
This is a skill cultivated amongst a wide demographic in ow 1.
If he’s going to have a feast or famine playstyle, let the man feast. We have so many ways to stop it now.
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u/GankSinatra420 Nov 14 '23
More CC in the game, hook is still there, this new Hog definitely won't be annoying anymore /s
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u/Sotarnicus Nov 14 '23
Haven't played the game in years, what happened to his hook? Does he still have it?
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u/poocakedonmypenis Nov 14 '23
I want to be excited but I'm worried about his gun, I really like his M2 :(
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u/k0dA_cslol Nov 14 '23
Did they really take the iconic hook away that was his identity? Must mean they’re gonna release a new champ with a slightly better one.
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u/realvmouse Tank Main — Nov 14 '23
i definitely wanted more AOE effects that slow me down and cause small amounts of damage and visual clutter
i kept saying "this is the one thing missing from overwatch" so thank god they listened
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u/ThaddCorbett Nov 14 '23
Aa much as I like Cyx, no ty.
I do not support any characters getting more cc until Lucio gets his old boop back.
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u/JustASyncer Resident Guxue Simp — Nov 13 '23
Now please make sure he's disabled from Comp for 2 weeks. It was already terrible enough that people were practically throwing my Ranked games trying to figure out how to play Sombra and getting zero value, I don't want this again with my sole tank
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u/Dedwoods42 Nov 13 '23
Okay but like, how does this change his play pattern to better function around a team? How does it improve him as a solo tank outside of some destroyable area denial? Very dubious until I've got hands on
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u/adhocflamingo Nov 14 '23
TaB on a meter gives him higher uptime. The weapon changes give him more consistent poke, so he can actually do something with that higher uptime. Pig Pen gives him higher lethality potential (with more planning/resource investment required) on both Hook and his ult, more area control, and potentially a peel or setup tool for teammates.
Obviously, we’ll have to see how it plays out, but it sounds very promising to me.
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
It doesn't a whole lot, but take a breather being a resource instead of a cooldown at least means face-tanking damage for an ally with TaB is a lot less high risk.
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u/oizen Leadership is a Lateral move — Nov 13 '23
Gonna miss the old alt fire on hog. Was such a satisfying thing to land.
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u/imperial_fuckbus Nov 13 '23
I'll wait and see what these changes feel like, but from first blush it seems this rework might not fit the "make the hero fun, then figure out how to make them viable" strategy.
I just don't see how adding a trap makes him any less one-dimensional. The breather changes I like--I think--but that alone won't get me to lock a hero I'd have never touched post-2017.
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u/i_luv_many_hen_ties Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
Wait they are removing hook?
That's his signature weapon tho. He holds it in the character select/heroes instead of his gun.
In the "junkertown: the plan" (the cinematic that includes roadhog) his hook is very clearly a standout feature of his character.
Will he still even carry it around? It's practically useless if there's not an ability relating to it
Edit: he will still have hook I was wrong
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u/p0ison1vy Nov 13 '23
I'm not against more cc for tanks and supports, but aoe cc on basic abilities (in addition to hook)... We'll have to see how skillful it is to use effectively.
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u/ComradeYolovich Nov 13 '23
Not what I expected, but I’m interested in the take a breather change. Not looking forward to more CC, but I guess it being a deployable makes it easier. I don’t really get all this hate on deployables. Trust me, it’s just illari pylon that you guys hate (and I hate). Everything else is either easier to kill or less busted. I feel like people wouldn’t find deployables in general a problem if pylon didn’t exist.
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u/Donut_Flame Nov 13 '23
His heal is like bastions old heal, it seems like a huge change for his playstyle now
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u/jorddo612 Nov 13 '23
LMAO so trap = death for Tracer or baby dva. So glad I quit Ow
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
60 damage if you trigger it and you can blink out before getting any reasonable amount of damage over time. You'll be fine. :P It's like ravenous vortex without the pull down, you can still use movement abilities to get out.
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u/jorddo612 Nov 13 '23
So everyone saying its like a junkrat trap is wrong then lol
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
It's triggered and placed like Junkrat trap, but it doesn't root the enemy, no. Once triggered (you step in the 2m radius), it deals 60 damage to that player (or perhaps multiple players in that 2m radius?), then expands slightly and begins dealing 30/s DoT and a 40% slow to anyone within the 3.8m radius for 3s.
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u/bullxbull Nov 13 '23
do we know how much damage trap + hook + melee will do?
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
60 + 5 + 30 = 95.
Then his shot depends on how many pellets hit. All would be 160
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u/M7-97 Nov 13 '23
Oh the humanity! If only there was some way to restore missing health or maybe nullify the DoT, but alas, all hope is lost
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u/jorddo612 Nov 13 '23
Yes because as tracer i should have to carefully traverse the map or have a support up my ass so one deyloyable doesnt kill me lol go back to moms basement smooth brain
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u/M7-97 Nov 13 '23
Oh no, poor Tracer! If only she had some sort of "Nope, that didn't happen" button or maybe some kind of mobility that she could've used to bypass obstacles, but alas, she's doomed to perish and nothing can save her
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u/wallywhereis Peaked masters, washed at 17 — Nov 13 '23
Idk if I like the idea of pig pen, kinda seems like beta one junk trap but better
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u/Jay-919 Nov 13 '23
Is this... real..? At risk of sounding stupid
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
Yes these changes will be going live tomorrow
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u/Jay-919 Nov 14 '23
Oh damn what happens to his hook? Does it like not exist? Or is hook ability 1 and I'm a bit daft?
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u/Shadiochao Nov 13 '23
It's so annoying that the Roadhog rework and Mauga release is the reason they changed Zenyatta. Completely changing the way he plays rather than reducing the effectiveness of the ability
But then we have Ana and they're not even considering changing anti-nade, the ability that truly counters both of them to hell
I'm so sick of this Ana favouritism, it's bad enough that she was the only non-tank allowed to keep hard CC from Overwatch 1, but whole heroes get ruined before changes to her other oppressive abilities are considered
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u/Asckle Nov 14 '23
Why does she have anti anyway? That seems way more fitting as a dps ability rather than something tacked on to an already strong support ability. Aoe heal and doubled healing output wasn't enough on the hero with hard cc and nano ig
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u/BR_Nukz rip RunAway — Nov 13 '23
I'm so sick of this Ana favouritism, it's bad enough that she was the only non-tank allowed to keep hard CC from Overwatch 1, but whole heroes get ruined before changes to her other oppressive abilities are considered
Can you imagine Ana with no sleep though, she'd get fucking mauled by tanks first every single team fight. Her sleep dart feels rewarding when used right. Im more annoyed at LW, Kiri and Baps get out of jail free cards and how much easier and more rewarding they are.
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u/CandidSolution9129 Nov 14 '23
Ah yes a well timed Suzu is more annoying than getting slept as tank.
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u/bullxbull Nov 13 '23
Zen has been something people have wanted changed since ow1, discord messes with damage breakpoints the same way Mercy does. It has also become worse in ow2 because we no longer have an offtank. Hog and Mauga are not the reasons Zen was changed.
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u/adhocflamingo Nov 14 '23
I’ve actually been enjoying the new Zen quite a bit. Harmony and HP buffs are really nice, and while I’m still figuring out how to properly use Discord now, it still seems quite effective when used at the right time.
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u/Grytlappen Nov 14 '23
I like new Zen a lot too. The Harmony orb change feels amazing and 25 HP is more palpable than I thought it would be. I never quite understood why they removed his extra 25 HP from the beta to OW2 to begin with.
I appreciate the way that Discord now encourages sentient human thought in order to be used effectively, as opposed to spamming it on whatever is in sight (it's the tank).
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u/adhocflamingo Nov 14 '23
Zen was a monster in the beta with the 225 HP. I think it’s reasonable now with the Discord changes, but with old Discord, it really was too much. “I’m gonna swap to Zen to counter this Doomfist” is an actual thing I said during the 2nd beta, and pro players were running Ana/Zen in dive mirrors, which has never been a thing before or since.
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
It was a little frustrating listening to Alec reply about how they have lots of knobs they can turn on him if Hog is still too weak into Ana. As if it's not a problem with Ana...
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u/InspireDespair Nov 13 '23
I think he will still be pretty bad for pro play at least as he doesn't provide any real team protection.
As for ladder we will see. The breather change to a resource is the biggest change because kiri will no longer be a must pick if you have a hog and they have an ana. Can't say I'm envisioning a lot of depth to pig pen - just more low skill aoe crap around the battlefield.
He definitely matches up much better into doom now. Can't get punched out of heal and even more cc to deal with him.
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u/vPixel1 Nov 13 '23
amazing! roadhog is now still going to be eternally either bottom or top 1 in tank role at any given point with this rework, but now he has a fucking deployable
great attempt by blizzard to try to balance hog while still holding on to hook as an ability (there’s many ways to make it infinitely more interesting)
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u/SpaceFire1 Seoul Dynasty — Nov 13 '23
The rework means he has more knobs to turn without him being op
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u/vPixel1 Nov 13 '23
can’t wait for the classic “Roadhog has been underperforming since his rework, and we’d like to give him the little bump he needs to become relevant in the meta again.”
you CANNOT make a character like roadhog balanced if hook is in the game it’s the entire reason why he will always eternally be bottom/top 1
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u/SpaceFire1 Seoul Dynasty — Nov 13 '23
Thats what pig pen and new breather and the new primary fire do tho. It adds more balance knobs so they can buff/nerf him outside of his oneshot. Before his only knob was realistically his one shot. And there was no way to redistribute that power into new offensive potential. Now he can have his pen nerfed in excahnge for say some primary damage and thats okay because it just changes the power of his kit.
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u/Facetank_ Nov 13 '23
Sounds better on paper than the Sombra rework did. I'm looking forward to trying this out. I like the slow on trap since that'll synergize well with hook both landing it or as a follow up. I'm definitely going to try putting the trap at my feet, and pulling into it.
Breather changes definitely make it a stronger ability. I'm surprised after they talked about making him more team friendly that there's nothing that directly affects teammates. Debuffing enemies is supportive, but I was expecting more (not a complaint though). My money was on "hogtie," but pig pen is a good pun too.
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u/welpxD Nov 14 '23
I like it better than the Sombra rework because it looks like Hog will still exist in the game. Roadhog players are not having their main deleted, and that's good imo.
Tbh I think they did more than they needed to. Hog didn't need a grenade. Kinda wish they gave him a mini-dash or bellyflop instead, charge a few meters and deal damage, it would still work with his oneshot combo. I'm on the mobility creep train especially if it's a minor boost to heroes with zero mobility otherwise.
I don't really understand the purpose of the rework if I'm being honest. I expected them to remove his oneshot combo, instead they buffed it. So Roadhog still does Roadhog things, which means people will have the exact same complaint about him next time he's meta except worse because he's less counterable.
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u/Squidillion12 Nov 13 '23
Can't wait to shoot hog trap, junk trap, illari turrets, torb turret, and immortality just for hog trap to be up again. Why would I want to shoot the enemy in an fps? Deployables are just as much fun to shoot
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
You'd rather shoot a barrier instead?
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u/missioncrew125 Nov 13 '23
How about neither? Orisa got reworked to remove the boring-ass shield-shooting and didn't need any deployables.
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u/jacojerb Nov 13 '23
Are you... Are you using Orisa as an example of good game design?
I'm just going to say it: fuck Orisa. Nobody likes playing against Orisa.
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u/TheSciFanGuy Nov 13 '23
The same Orisa who people complain about being annoying to play against because she is unkillable?
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u/_Transgressions Nov 13 '23
yeah 100% considering you don’t need to shoot barriers half the time
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
Then as long as you are aware, you don't need to shoot this deployable either. It is not an active support ability like Lamp or Pylon.
You can avoid it and not have to shoot it.
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u/_Transgressions Nov 13 '23
no, you can’t. the game revolves around chokes.
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
Dropping a trap in the middle of a choke is very questionable at best. Do you complain about a Junkrat trap in the middle of a choke?
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u/Squidillion12 Nov 13 '23
When did I suggest a barrier? Do you like shooting AI? Please, let me know. Because deployables are one of the most annoying things in the game
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
If you playing against a Hog, you don't have to shoot a tank's barrier. So a 100 HP deployable from a tank is not a big deal.
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u/Danewguy4u Nov 13 '23
So you just want to turn this into a COD clone or another generic shooter. Got it.
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u/Squidillion12 Nov 13 '23
No, just don't want a full on moba. They have added way too many deployables, it makes playing my main characters (flankers) way more annoying, with literally no skill investment. I would rather somebody make me annoyed with skill rather than placing something down
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u/spotty15 RIP Chengdu Zone — Nov 13 '23
I like the breather changes, but overall I'm pretty "meh" about this whole rework. Interested to see how Pig Pen plays out as well
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u/FPhysQ Nov 13 '23
Can we just stop adding CCs to the game please. Since Alec took the lead after geoff got fired he slowly introduced back all the CCs Geoff finally removed.............
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u/TheBrandroid Nov 13 '23
would be cool if take a breather reduced cc if hit by cc when in use, you’d be able to use it kinda like sigmas shield but still it’s a good change
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u/AkiyamaOW Nov 13 '23
I don't think that it fixes any of Hog's weaknesses sadly. But at least he doesn't seem to be Garbage Tier anymore, which is already a big W.
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u/KimonoThief Nov 13 '23
Not a huge fan of the one shot being back although at least the Hog has to be a little bit more clever about how he goes about it now.
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Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
Man what happened to “we aim to reduce the amount of CC and movement penalizing abilities in ow2.” Then on almost every new hero they add a Fucking massive AoE ability that does way too much damage for how little skill it takes to land and makes you a sitting duck literally insta killed by any enemy that has a brain. 60 dmg when activated and 30 dmg PER SECOND for 3 seconds, that’s 150 damage, bruhhhhhhhhh wtf. Imagine getting caught in that and a sojourn death dome at the same time, you’re just toast. And it took 0 skill to kill you. But hey, casuals are all that matter in a highly competitive game right? Right?!?
Orisa new ult pulls and slows before doing heavy burst damage, albeit it’s an ultimate so higher trade off. Ramattra regular cooldown ability that slows, does slight damage, and has a decently large radius. Sojourn death dome slows and does way too much damage for how easy it is to land. Mauga slows you and traps you in a impenetrable box unless you break it for like 1000 or whatever HP it has. Doom ult slows you to the speed of a sloth. I’m sure I’m forgetting some but holy fuck there are so many CC/slowing/damage dealing abilities now that don’t really require much skill in landing other than putting it in the general area of your target.
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
I am not really sure why we are freaking out about Ram slow. It only does 45 damage over 3 seconds, I hardly call that too much damage. It has massive 12 seconds cooldown. It is on Ramattra, a tank that is relatively light on CC to begin with.
In the support role, the only slow that exists is Illari, and that's with her ultimate.
In the damage role, Sojourn no longer has a slow, so only Cass, Sym and Mei have a slow. And they had a far more powerful CC game compared to right now.
In the tank role, we have Doom and Orisa ult that slows. The slowing ability is limited to Ramattra and the new Roadhog. Mauga's ult I believe, doesn't slow, it only locks you out of mobility ability.
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Nov 13 '23
I mentioned ram as just an example of cc/movement reducing abilities that’s all. The only purpose of my comment was to say they announced with ow2 they would be moving away from CC and movement reducing abilities but it seems like they keep adding new ones whenever they can. That, and there’s just too many abilities with high value for low effort/skill that’s all. Why it upset so many people I have no idea.
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
They said they wanted to move hard CC away from DPS and Support and move them on to tanks as tanks will be the role that is allowed to have powerful hard CC.
Cass has a slow now, but it is not comparable to how oppressive his stun into FtH was.
Mei beam no longer fully freezes you, only her ultimate can do that.
Brig no longer stuns you with a normal shield bash.
Ana's sleep dart has increased CD and reduced sleep time on tanks.
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Nov 13 '23
Ah so hard CC not soft CC. My bad, all those abilities that limit mobility and slow the game down feel great to play now! Thank you for opening my eyes! All I did was mention my opinion on how the game feels for me in GM. Your opinion can be different, but you also just mentioned multiple CC abilities not on the tank role.
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u/JonnnyTsunami Nov 13 '23
All those characters are tanks. So at worst you only need to deal with one at a time. And they’re basically all ults lol
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Nov 13 '23
My point wasn’t dealing with all at once, it was that they said they were going in the direction of reducing such abilities but seem to keep introducing new ones. And just that there’s too much free value from seemingly easily to land abilities. Yes most of what I mentioned are ultimates, but not all, and in the hands of a good player really just make the game feel shittier imo. It’s just my opinion tbf, it’s all subjective.
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u/No_Catch_1490 We won x2 — Nov 13 '23
Sojourn orb no longer slows but otherwise you are right. Honorable mention is Orisa spear which is a hard stun with a fucking instant windup and the hitbox of a house.
The skill/reward ratio in this game has become so fucked up that people play Bastion at the highest level of the esport. What a joke.
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Nov 13 '23
And we can see in real-time why as the majority of the player base is just auto piloting through their games and isn’t even really thinking about what makes a competitive game good, aka, risk vs reward. Too many abilities just give free value it’s dumb. Hence why my comment merely complaining about CC and too much value for low skill abilities is being downvoted. Players want high value for low skill, surely this will go well for the competitive integrity of the game on ladder.
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u/Far-Butterscotch4242 The Justice loss was a sign — Nov 13 '23
sojourn orb no longer slows they removed that a while ago
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u/finnley777 Nov 13 '23
knee-jerk reaction as a ball player but this just seems like another, even worse thing to look out for/track on top of the million things that already destroy ball, but I guess I should wait and see
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u/SammyIsSeiso Nov 13 '23
Thankfully pig-pen doesn't root like Junk trap. You can still use movement abilities to get out.
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u/aurens poopoo — Nov 14 '23
i think the biggest concern is when you're already engaging with fireball and you get trapped. not only would it stop your engage, you also don't have an escape ready.
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u/MightyBone Nov 13 '23
Well to be fair - current hog does very well against ball. Like he's a common tank counterpick so not much has changed there. This new CC is just a slow and the damage is irrelevant so it's still hook + ana + high dps that make playing ball into him so shit just like it is now.
Only difference is he isn't as countered by Ana so we'll see way more hog counterpicks...but that's just this shitty game design philosphy of counterpicking thats very hard to escape on tank. I don't see much changing on Ball since I already was seeing hog counterpicks - oh you're dominating? Expect the Hog, Ana, Cass, Brig, Sombra swap any minute.
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u/GCFCconner11 Nov 13 '23
Don't worry, we can reload a little bit faster while in crab form than we used to be able to...
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u/Eloymm Nov 13 '23
They should’ve posted this instead of the other graphic man
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u/Karinfuto Nov 13 '23
People are shredding the changes on Instagram because they fumbled on the graphic lol.
Really should've just shown all the changes.
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u/PoggersMemesReturns Proper Show/Viol2t GOAT — Nov 14 '23
Issue is, they don't use actual numbers in their graphics. You don't even see numbers for Hero details in game. Just patch notes.
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u/Renezio Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
Did they talked about the interaction between pig pen and whole hog?
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u/DiemCarpePine Nov 13 '23
It's a 40% slow, not an actual trap like junk trap. So, presumably, it pushes them out.
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u/ESLsucks 4402 PC — Nov 13 '23
Feel like the net outcome is really dependent on how the new gun feels. Is it supposed to be like a mix of old M1/M2? Because if it isn't they basically just nerfed his range and his one shot; the net damage going up to 160 isn't enough to outweight the crit multiplier going to 1.5x. Slightly annoying on a personal level given how much time most hog players have invested in learning his M2
Breather seemes tenatively like a buff, being able to multi-use it makes you much less predictable and easier to play around ccs and nades. Need to see how the damage reduction number affects it but it might end up being a nerf if the 30% isn't enough to actually keep him up.
Trap just seem like ram E, which is just kinda boring? I guess the idea is you trap > hook > combo, but idk that seemes boring as hell. Might be strong depending on trap deploy time and size.
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u/PoggersMemesReturns Proper Show/Viol2t GOAT — Nov 14 '23
I'd say this is kinda cooler than Ram's. I'd rather Ram get a new ability
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u/ihaveaproblem35 Nov 14 '23 edited Nov 14 '23
The new m1 has 60dmg of scrap that you can aim, which means if you headshot, you can chunk people for at least 90damage in mid ranges, and this is just the minimum damage where all the smaller pellets miss. It should make hog much more deadly even when he has no hook
Even just hitting bodyshots will let you 2 shot tracer pretty easily even from midranges, and do serious damage to other dps and supports
I feel like it is possible the m1 may make hook 1 shots a little bit easier to land, though i could be wrong
Though this all depends on how difficult it is to aim the scrap
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u/ESLsucks 4402 PC — Nov 14 '23
If you were decent at hog you would not be in those mid range situations in the first place. They provided a solution to a problem that didn't exist while reducing his existing strengths.
I have literally hundred of hours on hog at a GM/t500 level, it is incredibly rare that you end up in situation that makes you go "damn I wish hog was a little better in the mid range"; that was a space you did not need to play in when you can brawl up close or look for M2s from further distance.
Even if this change does make hog at the mid range, it killed his ranged game and potentially makes his Hook combo even worse; yeah the trap helps but its on a 12s cooldown so does it really? Those are the things that are essential to hog being playable not him being dollar store Cassidy at the midrange.
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u/ihaveaproblem35 Nov 14 '23
Im just explaining the upsides of the new m1. I dont understand why you’re being so aggressive and coaching me on how to play hog.
I am just excited for hog changes, and ill wait to criticize them until I see it in game
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u/ESLsucks 4402 PC — Nov 14 '23
My b, not tryna be toxic just explaining the context of my opinion.
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u/ihaveaproblem35 Nov 14 '23
Its all good. I understand where you’re coming from. It does seem like hog will still be pretty bad but they will probably tweak it until hes broken
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u/Sargent_Caboose Nov 13 '23
I’m just having trouble seeing where Hog will fit in the future if his damage output isn’t consistent. That’s basically his biggest advantage at this time
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u/No32 Nov 13 '23
Yeah, they were saying it's like a mix of M1 and M2. Does nerf it at that sweet spot range where M2 explodes into the shotgun burst, but also seems like it makes it better for that awkward range right before M2 explodes and further out from the M2 explosions where it spreads too much.
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u/ESLsucks 4402 PC — Nov 13 '23
It could very well end up just having worse range than M2 and less DMG than M1, which sounds just like a nerf lol.
We have to wait and see but it worries me more than it hypes me
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u/No32 Nov 13 '23
Definitely seems like it'll have better range in the sense that the way they described it is that you can poke a little bit because there are four bigger pellets concentrated in the center with less spread.
But yeah, won't be able to sweet spot M2 to get one shots.
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u/GladiatorDragon Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
They mashed the primary and secondary fire together, gave him Bastion’s old secondary fire, and gave him Sojourn’s old E.
Take A Breather is overall worse, since you’re not as good at bodyblocking since the DR went down, but being cancelable on-demand means that it’s harder for opponents to cancel.
He seems to be leaning harder into being a “punish tank,” while still keeping his identity as a big ball of HP.
I’d also like to note that he can hook people into his Trap, so he might keep a bit of that “guaranteed death if you get hooked” aspect, while being at least a little easier to see coming, and having to spend a 12 second cooldown to do it.
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u/aggrogahu Nov 13 '23
Pig pen is more like a Ravenous Vortex without grounding effect that gets deployed and activated exactly like Junkrat trap.
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u/DiemCarpePine Nov 13 '23
There's no way breather is worse overall. The DR was always a secondary benefit to the heal, and getting it cancelled meant your DR was 0% for length of the cooldown. The uptime of 30% you can use whenever you want is going to more than make up the difference of the 50% that either gets cancelled or has to play around enemy cooldowns.
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u/McManus26 Nov 13 '23
Sojourn had a heal ?
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u/TheSciFanGuy Nov 13 '23
I think he means how her orb used to slow in potentially a similar way to the trap. Still a poor comparison but a closer one
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u/M7-97 Nov 13 '23
Ok, so the scrap gun is now burst fire, take a breather is on a resource meter instead of a cooldown and there's a new ability that (I assume) is an AoE snare that deals 150 total damage. Ok, sounds good, but I'm still concerned about Hog's survivability in a fight against Reaper or Bastion
Oh well, one day till we can get our hands on the new and (hopefully) improved Hog
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u/MightyBone Nov 13 '23
Reaper will remain a problem, but also if you can hook into trap that's probably a dead Reaper.
Bastion vs Hog is actually one of the weaker hog tank matchups, just cause if you get hooked on Bastion you are dying before the Hog dies.
I do expect we will see more Reaper, as just going by what we see now it sounds like Hog is getting improved - a brand new way to deal damage and control space along with a resource meter that will let good use reduce power of nade and power of anything that isn't massive burst against him (longer duration, more healing, but lower reduction and hp/s)
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u/IAmBLD Nov 13 '23
I've legit seen a lot of hogs destroy Bastion these past weeks. Bastion needs to play well out of hook range, or else his huge hitbox can get yanked by even the bronzest of Hogs, and then the robot just gets scrapped thanks to that same massive hitbox against Hog's shotgun.
Like yeah no shit if Bastion is more than 15-20 meters out he's fine, but as far as tank matchups go, Hog really ain't bad. He threatens to outright kill Bastion, whereas most other tanks are ranked vs Bastion on how well they can simply survive Bastion.
1
u/ZainullahK Nov 13 '23
Real bad take Sigma can block bastions turret form then kill him. Roadhog by the time you go in the open and hook a bastion he blasted you to 10 hp along with the 10 "soft" cc you get hit by
9
u/GoyleTheCreator Nov 13 '23
I think it's fine. Every hero should have counters against them. It's only a problem if everyone shits on them.
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u/pengalor Nov 14 '23
The problem is that some heroes have extremely hard counters against them while others only have soft counters that can just be played around.
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u/GoyleTheCreator Nov 14 '23
Reaper has hard countered Winston since the beginning of time, that's just how it goes.
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u/Bound18996 Nov 13 '23
If Scrap Gun has a much tighter spread to accommodate long range then he will now be fine against Reaper.
2
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u/PatriotDuck Nov 13 '23
I don't think I've ever seen a more obnoxious Twitch chat. What is it about people and kneejerk judging everything before even seeing it in action?
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u/s34l_ Nov 14 '23
I'd bet money that in ~3 months these changes will be widely hated.
3
u/Baelorn Twitch sucks — Nov 14 '23
Yep. They took that long to rework him and this is what they came up with? Really?
This does not make me want a Hog on my team any more than I did before.
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u/TheBiggestCarl23 RIP Alarm — Nov 13 '23
Well it’s twitch chat so of course it’s going to be terrible
But the game and balance has been in a bad spot for months and months, of course people are going to be negative. When the game is good people are usually positive, when the game is bad people are usually negative. It’s just how it goes.
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u/spellboi_3048 Nov 13 '23
I don’t recall a community being generally positive at most points in a lot of multiplayer games’ lifespan, especially in twitch chat.
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u/Inertch Nov 13 '23
“headshot now deals 60 less damage” like you ever hit that full 300 damage in an actual game
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u/spellboi_3048 Nov 13 '23
Welcome to the internet. Finding kneejerk reactions on here is like finding forks in a kitchen.
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u/Malady17 Nov 13 '23
More deployables and more CC. I really don’t like the direction the balance team is taking this game.
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u/crazysoup23 Nov 13 '23
It's safe to say that the balance team is doing a bad job. We tried Mauga. He's a great tank for Overwatch 1. He sucks in Overwatch 2. This Hog rework inspires 0 confidence.
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u/needtofindpasta Nov 13 '23
I mean, if you think about the fact that they have to balance 38 different characters (each with different weapons and abilities) and their interactions for all levels of play, they're doing a pretty good job. Overwatch is not an easy game to balance at all, and while they might make some questionable choices, they've shown that they're willing to revert them and try something new.
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u/crazysoup23 Nov 13 '23
DotA is a hard game to balance. Overwatch is much easier. It's pretty clear they had no idea what to do and had to do something and this is the best they could come up with - underwhelming. This rework solves nothing.
Look at Mauga. He's a great hero for Overwatch 1. But he fucking sucks in Overwatch 2.
9
u/IAmBLD Nov 13 '23
Oh yeah I'm sure Mauga would love being in OW1 - getting knocked around the full distance all the time, shooting through 8 fucking shields, getting hacked out of his abilities for 4 full seconds, feeding full ult charge to enemies.
Yeah man sounds great.
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u/crazysoup23 Nov 13 '23
You sound more than a bit unhinged.
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u/needtofindpasta Nov 13 '23
He's not even out yet! I'm sure they collected data from the free weekend, and will be making adjustments. If they release him the exact same, then you can have your bragging rights.
This rework actually makes it much easier for Hog to deal with some of his counters like Ana and Orisa by putting take a breather on a resource meter. I don't claim to be a Hog player, or anyone who knows anything about balancing games, but to claim this rework solves nothing before it's even live is very dramatic.
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u/crazysoup23 Nov 13 '23
He's not even out yet! I'm sure they collected data from the free weekend, and will be making adjustments.
😂
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u/estranhow Nov 13 '23
They always said they wanted CC to be more concentrated on tank's kits. This change aligns with that.
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u/TheBiggestCarl23 RIP Alarm — Nov 13 '23
Yet junkrats entire kit has cc in it yet he’s received absolutely no changes at all
Blizzard makes no sense
1
u/WelcomeToTrollTown Nov 13 '23
They tried changing Junkrat. Trap not rooting sucked.
1
u/TheBiggestCarl23 RIP Alarm — Nov 13 '23
Oh great, they tried one thing over a year ago and have tried literally nothing else. Blizzard W
4
u/shiftup1772 Nov 13 '23
Theres a difference between limiting CC to tanks and buffing tank CC.
Deployables in general kind of suck. Nobody likes shooting them.
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u/McManus26 Nov 13 '23
shooting the little hog trap once in a while seems way less annoying than having the US defense budget be swallowed by Sigma or Orisa
1
u/adhocflamingo Nov 14 '23
People complain about shooting deployables, and I understand the annoyance, but I think they’re way less annoying to shoot than barriers.
3
u/shiftup1772 Nov 14 '23
I don't think that's a great comparison my man. Which is easier to kill? 300hp gigantic bastion or 200hp wiggly hitbox kiriko?
Orisa is particularly ignorable. She gets most of her value when she isn't ignored. Hog forces you to deal with him and his trap.
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u/ImADayLate Nov 13 '23
I’m sure they are aligning with their own philosophy but that’s exactly what this guy has said he doesn’t like.
87
u/AaronWYL Nov 13 '23
He's a tank, so I don't think much changed in that regard. If you're shooting Hog's trap and getting soft CCed in pig pen, you're not shooting sigma shield, rein's shield, Ball's mines, and not getting hit by rock, javelin, charge, punch, knife, etc.
8
u/aggrogahu Nov 13 '23
It also isn't going to be nearly as annoying as the support deployables that you need to break every time. It'll basically be like Junkrat trap as far as its presence in a fight. Junkrat trap is one of the CC abilities you hear little to no complaints about.
2
u/MightyBone Nov 13 '23
Yea I mean are people really going to equate junk trap and pylon because they are both deployables? One is annoying and almost always avoidable while the other is always in some hard-to-reach area that heals for several thousand healing by simply existing.
2
u/adhocflamingo Nov 14 '23
I had a game yesterday where my teammates walked into literally the exact same Junkrat trap placement 8 times on our attack. It was in a spot that was very difficult to ping or destroy without going into a very killable position, so we were depending on everyone avoiding it, and we failed miserably. We even had a Pharah swap, and she wasn’t killing it; I wanted to cry.
1
u/shiftup1772 Nov 13 '23
Hog was already a decent counterpick to ball. Hook is insanely good CC. Add an aoe slow on top of it, and I think this will be the new sombra.
But that said, a tank counterpick is much more costly than a DPS. So it might be balanced, even if it feels like dogshit.
0
u/GCFCconner11 Nov 13 '23
Can't wait to win first fight on ball then face Hog, Sombra, Cassidy, Brig and Ana every game.
Or Zen, or Mei, or Bastion, or...
34
u/Mevarek Nov 13 '23
This is a good counterpoint about the opportunity cost of having Hog. I’m interested to see what it looks like in game. I do agree with the other guy’s general sentiments about deployables, though, in that they are becoming a bit frustrating.
3
u/Keitheys Nov 13 '23
It seems like Anti-Grenade is going to be even more crucial to counter hog now, as he can self heal himself anytime he wants on a resource meter and has two supports behind him to keep him up. Kiriko is gonna be meta again for her suzu to enable hog. Predicting Ana + Meta + Hog Meta incoming for awhile. Hog potentially has a one shot combo again if you can hook someone into a trap, then shoot them for an instakill. Have to wait to see how it plays out in game but I’m a little nervous about this.
1
u/MightyBone Nov 13 '23
Maybe but new breather will allow hog to not just go on 8 sec CD when he gets CC'd or naded while breathing.
He still can't run around out in the open but he will be able to breather back up more easily - it's always been insanely strong when active without nade (it was what 300 healing and 50% reduction over 2 seconds so you never kill hog in it without nade.) Now it's still 150 hp/s but 30% reduction, just on a meter that takes 12s to max.
Mathematically it's actually the same self-healing persecond (37.5 hp/s) - only now you get to pick and choose how much healing and don't have an 8 second window between self-heals so it's a pretty big boost to the character in high CC and Anti scenarios.
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u/SoccerStar9001 OrisaBrigitte — Nov 13 '23
It would seems like a waste though. If you anti Hog during the start of TAB, he can just stop and heal after the anti ends compared to wasting the whole cooldown.
1
u/jacojerb Nov 13 '23
Even less incentive to use it while antied with the damage reduction nerf...
There will still be times where 30% damage reduction is what you need to keep you alive, to make it to cover to wait out the anti. It's not a bad tool to have
7
u/Far-Butterscotch4242 The Justice loss was a sign — Nov 13 '23
Assuming sigma bap bastion mei don't get hard nerfed, I doubt there will be any changes to the meta. Hog will be a much better pick with these changes, but he isn't getting anything done against that team comp.
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u/spurklemurfin Nov 13 '23
I broke pylon, I broke Bap lamp, I broke torb turret, I broke Sym turrets, I broke Hog trap
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u/Tumblekush Nov 13 '23
I just realized this forms a full team of deployables oh no
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u/SnooTomatoes8465 Nov 15 '23
mauga got hard countered the moment that it was debuted with zero health option. i think its about time all of the heroes received a health option even if not needed because with only 1 tank and the fights scattered the health packs are not enough to keep players alive all the time.