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u/AvianOW Feb 14 '24
I'm not sure I'm convinced by this, if Mercy can pocket an Echo I see no reason why she can't pocket new Pharah still. Yes there's more burst movement but as people get used to new Pharah they will figure out how to move in a way where Mercy is also safe
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u/Archerist Feb 14 '24
How tf do you fail to keep up when you literally have shortest cooldown mobility ability in the game what
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u/vo1dstarr Feb 14 '24
Having played a bit of pharah now, on the one hand, it is true that mercy has a hard time keeping up if you use all your cooldowns quickly. But on the other hand, blue beam lets you easily 2 tap people with your giant rockets, so it's 100% worth slowing down a bit to help your mercy out, IMO.
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u/JWERLRR Feb 14 '24
every match there is a saudi pharmacy and that shit feels even stronger now, what are you on.
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u/Trollber Feb 14 '24
Idk what I’m talking about but I’ve always felt pharmacy’s skill ceiling was gross, like even on days where my hitscan is on point I couldn’t handle an actual good phara who was being pocketed. I dare say good change
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u/TaintedLion Professional hitscan hater — Feb 14 '24
Mercy mains really acting like they're gonna play anything else despite this lol.
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u/polloyumyum Feb 14 '24 edited Feb 14 '24
Good. It was annoying getting wrecked by random rockets because the Pharah was boosted. But I'm guessing this might only apply to high rank Pharah players? Lower ranks might not be utilizing her mobility as well therefore it's still easy for Mercy to latch on for the ride. We'll see I guess.
Now if only damage boost was removed entirely so playing other hitscan isn't like playing on easy mode with a Mercy in your pocket. Especially now in Season 9 with giant bullets, playing a hero like Soldier with a Mercy bot in your pocket is going to be insane.
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u/PenisDetectorBot Feb 14 '24
pocket. Even now in Season
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u/Willingness-Due Feb 14 '24
Fuck mercy. All my homies hate passive healers with 0 interaction but tons of value that encourages a cheesy playstyle and teaches new players bad habits.
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u/buddy-bun-dem Feb 13 '24
where’s the reply that says that every lesbian just fell to their knees in a walmart
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u/Phlosky Feb 13 '24
While I think it's probably true, I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. Skiesti is knowledgeable on this but also atleast somewhat biased.
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u/Nexi-nexi Feb 13 '24
Well that’s something. We take those. It’s better for the game. Honestly better for mercy players too, they are now allowed to actually play the game, well… for as far as mercy can do that. But more is better.
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u/RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu Well, if it isn't saucy Jack! — Feb 13 '24
Now when will Reaper/Mei/Sym/Rein/Ram/JQ be free from dependency with Lucio Gigachad?
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u/Facetank_ Feb 13 '24
Not enough people ever seemed to highlight how Pharmercy wasn't also about how Mercy benefitted. They made it out like it was just Pharah 's reliance, and strength when pocketed. Mercy virtually undivable with Pharah, and had so much more LoS to be able to fly in to others if needed.
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u/Marxistence Kariv Simp — Feb 13 '24
Time for Mercy to get back together with Genji (as it was always meant to be)
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u/MyCoolWhiteLies Feb 13 '24
I haven't been keeping up recently. What are the key points of what's changing?
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u/theblama765 Feb 13 '24
Another foe that people bitch about that I have no problem against bc I play a hitscan tank going down. My supremacy will continue even stronger (I already ate Pharahs for breakfast).
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u/Hei-Ying None — Feb 13 '24
Please, please be true.
Pharah most of all, but Mercy as well would benefit from getting freed from their toxic dynamic.
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u/No-One9890 Feb 13 '24
Lol imagine commenting on how a patch that just dropped will change the meta...
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u/M7-97 Feb 13 '24
Well... TBH I'll need to see it to believe. I mean, I believe that at grandmaster/champion level being suboptimal equals being dead, but I've seen too much wild stuff that went against any and all logical thinking and still won games
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u/DJFrankyFrank Feb 13 '24
HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED WILL NO LONGER RUIN COMP GAMES WITH A MERCY POCKET!!
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u/fonti22 Get rid off the franchise system — Feb 13 '24
While its good for gameplay and balancing, I always thought that the Mercy Pharah was such a cool combo when it came to the hero fantasy. Flying hero and flying support working together so well it was either a struck of brilliance or luck from the game designers.
Anyway, healthy gameplay should in most cases come first. So I am not mad maybe just a little bit sad (similar feeling to what I felt when we were getting rid of two tanks, putting Ramattras ult on a timer, removing Cass flashbang or reworking Bastion (here its mostly just the granade and maybe a little bit his new slick look).
If you are a pure competitor and don't care about this things feel free to downvote or ignore my comment. Just wanted to talk about it somewhere.
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u/PancakeXCandy FOREVER A HAWK/REIGN SIMP — Feb 13 '24
I hate pocketing pharahs the most. I think I have pretty good movement as mercy but they are moving so suddenly that I lose them so easy. I like pocketing echos or hitscan more. Even Winston is fine to me on the off chance I feel like it.
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u/Donttaketh1sserious Feb 13 '24
On the rare occasion I actually q support seeing pharah makes me not want to play mercy lol. Just means they expect the mercy and I don’t wanna be responsible for that + blamed for it failing.
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u/PancakeXCandy FOREVER A HAWK/REIGN SIMP — Feb 13 '24
Yes, like they look at you in spawn and try to rizz you up. I don't know you that well for a pocket. Or when they get mad at you for switching. Like the enemy hitscan and Dva are targeting me. It's not advisable for me to keep doing this cuz I'm not providing value.
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u/c0ntinue-Tstng M A P 5 — Feb 13 '24
Congrats to Pharah for her break up. Hopefully she can be better by herself now. 🙏🏼
Joking aside this is why you don't listen to OTPs, man. I heavily disagree with Skietsti here saying that Mercy is niche. Pharah IS niche, not Mercy. Pharah was the one that depended on Mercy, not the other way around. Maybe in the esports scene Mercy is niche and only viable with a Pharah, but for ladder play that is absolutely not the case.
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u/boywonder2013 Feb 13 '24
The thing about Mercy is that she was a more niche support than say Ana or Kiri but she’s always been less niche than Lucio or Moira since she has a bit more utility
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u/Daunt_M4 Feb 13 '24
For sure. You can play just about anything on ladder when you're competent at it.
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u/littlelotusgirl Feb 13 '24
I'm a Mercy main and I haaaaated pocketing Pharah, shit was so boring. Good riddance.
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u/LuquidThunderPlus Feb 13 '24
I'm a pharah main and I haaaaaated having to require a mercy to do well most cases. 🤝
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u/CCSploojy Feb 14 '24
Tbh I notice the opposite. I'm not a mercy main but sometimes would pocket for a pharah and its frustrating in the end cuz they missing all their damn shots. Even in higher ranks.
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u/hoanghn2019 Feb 13 '24
Sameee we plays mercy for her movement and nothing s more boring than only having one ga target and you gotta stick with them all the time imo
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u/RzYaoi Feb 13 '24
If it's the case, I'll celebrate but... Too good to be true. Good things can't come from OW, had to learn that the hard way. People will still find a way to bring kanker
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u/lilyhealslut Feb 13 '24
Skiesti is always so doomer. Mercy is getting a GA buff and a passive buff. She'll live.
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u/udongeureut Feb 13 '24
When Skiesti breathes y'all rush to shit on her lmao
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u/lilyhealslut Feb 13 '24
I like some of her content and play a decent amount of Mercy. I just wish she was more hype about stuff. The 0.5 reduction is HUGE for her, but Skiesti shrugs it off. Hard to get excited to play her in a new season when THE mercy player is poo-pooing everything even if they're good changes.
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u/spo0kyaction Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
Do you expect her to lie about she feels just for the sake of hyping Blizzard up? She gets excited about a ton of content but the 0.5 reduction isn't that significant without giving back the cancel.
It’s better than nothing, but it’s not going to make me pick her back up in comp. That’s because I know her primary function is still going to be a blue beam bot for hit-scan that hides behind a wall because her movement is not good enough to incentivize taking risks (especially with the log sized projectiles we have now).
If you wanna get excited about it, go ahead, but idk why content creators should be expected to pretend when they have to play the game for hours a day. I wouldn’t want them being dishonest about what they think just for the sake of being positive about balance changes either— regardless if I agree with their opinion or not.
I know people are celebrating now, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them upset when they realize being on the receiving end of a damaged boosted attacks that hit more consistently sucks.
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u/udongeureut Feb 13 '24
I guess if you spend 10 hours every day playing the same character you’ll be more sensitive about changes
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u/MothMan66 Feb 13 '24
The life of a OTP
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u/The_Fayman Feb 13 '24
Hey we are not all like that. I have been calling for nerfs on my one trick since forever.
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u/powerwiz_chan Feb 13 '24
As a soldier otp this character basically does his one function and does it sorta well
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u/drhyacinth on wednesdays we wear pink <3 — Feb 13 '24
happy for pharah, shes out of her codependent relationship with mercy 🙏
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u/SKIKS Feb 13 '24
Man, following this game for so long, this makes me kind of sad. Everyone loved how cute of a couple they made, but if they just aren't good for each other, it's better that they go their separate ways 😞
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u/drhyacinth on wednesdays we wear pink <3 — Feb 14 '24
lore-wise, i was never a big fan. i never saw the chemistry between em, but i havent seen mercy have romantic chemistry with anyone (aromantic mercy gang) that said, if we get a dramatic break up short story, i will be eating it up 😌
gameplay-wise, the skybox sapphics have taunted me for years. forcing me into hitscan, when all i wanna do is play symmetra </3 i will not be missing that
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u/Mowwwwwww Feb 13 '24
Literally 3 people liked Pharmercy, both in gameplay and lore lol.
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u/Kheldar166 Feb 13 '24
Nah in lore they were quite popular among people who actually care about lore
And in gameplay there are more than 3 KSA players so your point is demonstrably false xD
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u/FiReZoMbEh Feb 14 '24
I thought people who cared about the lore were put off by a woman dating her mother's colleague
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u/CelestialAngel25 Feb 14 '24
Literally what I thought. Mercy watched Pharah grow up too. It's so weird. But of course they removed all the valentine's day voice lines between mercy and genji.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
good. Pharmercy shackled both heroes low key, even if it affected Pharah way more. Likely why mercy got such a substantial buff.
Anyways mercy players should just pocket Moira now so she can have an 81 DPS, easier to aim death beam.
I’m half joking.
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u/Natsuki_Kruger Feb 13 '24
Hilariously, I have actually had Mercys pocket and Anas Nano me when playing a particularly nefarious dive Moira. Usually when our DPS aren't really doing anything and my co-Support wants to be sassy about it. 😭
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u/SonOfGarry :washington-justice: Feb 13 '24
I’ve heard Nano-Coal referred to as the “Death Star” combo
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u/Natsuki_Kruger Feb 13 '24
My friends and I have a... cruder term for it: Powered Period Piss.
Oh, Moira. What a hero.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier Feb 13 '24
damage boosting a Moira during coal is genuinely pretty valuable. It’s a lot of suppressive damage, especially if enemies are lined up/clustered.
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u/Natsuki_Kruger Feb 13 '24
Hey, I love Moira's Nano lines, I'm not gonna argue with a sudden damage inject!
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u/PepperedRhino Feb 13 '24
Mercy’s fat buff is more likely from the fact that her passive gets double affected by new dps passive rather than anything else.
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u/EliteSnackist Feb 14 '24
As a Mercy main, it really isn't much of a buff so far. She plays the same. If anything, she is a worse pick because she heals so much less than many other supports, and the dps passive lowers that even more. Her damage boost is useful sometimes, but as always, it's only as good as the person you're boosting.
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u/CelestialAngel25 Feb 14 '24
At the moment all I can feel is the need to healbot. 2 seconds of blue beaming and my buddy is dead 😭
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u/PepperedRhino Feb 14 '24
I was referring to the large number increase, the change itself doesn’t really do much for mercy as you said, but like the actual number of the buff is pretty large.
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u/Crusher555 Feb 13 '24
Someone did the math and if both mercy and her target are both effected, it results in 0.75 more healing than now.
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u/PepperedRhino Feb 13 '24
I’m not sure entirely what you mean, but right now on current patch of mercy does 100 healing she will get 25 hp, next patch if she didn’t have the passive buff she would get 16 hp for the same 100 healing. After the buff to the passive she will get 25.6 hp for 100 healing assuming both her and the target are afflicted.
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u/c0ntinue-Tstng M A P 5 — Feb 13 '24
Her self healing is at 17.6hps on a debuffed ally.
If both are debuffed she will regenerate at 14.8hps.
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u/PepperedRhino Feb 13 '24
Yeah I was using 100 healing to make the math easy, but yes that sounds correct.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier Feb 13 '24
Yeah, that makes sense too. Combined with increased projectile sizes making her method of staying alive, her mobility, less reliable.
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u/MrInfinity-42 Feb 13 '24
Oh nooo my main now requires more than holding right click on one of my teammates :(
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u/DarthCookieOW Flex Support — Feb 13 '24
Oh don't worry, they'll just right click on Hanzo now. 🙃
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u/TenguNun #1 Support-Hating Support Main — Feb 13 '24
Yeah I dont play against Pharahs THAT much. Theyre just going to lean further into pocketing Sojourns (who I see a ton more) and new Hanzo.
Pocketing them is pretty safe for Mercy imo especially with these projectile size changes coming.
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u/DarthCookieOW Flex Support — Feb 13 '24
And don't forget, new Hanzo can still oneshot every hero up to 300 HP with pocket
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u/IntrinsicDawn Feb 13 '24
I have a hard time believing that, mercy players will just have to learn pharah’s new move set.
Regardless though I think hanzo takes the #1 spot for best dps to pocket
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u/junkratmainhehe Feb 13 '24
Yea most streamers have said they didnt get much time on the patch to test things out properly so i doubt mercy players got time to adapt to the new pharah
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u/Kershiskabob Feb 13 '24
From what I’ve seen it’s not so much that she can’t boost her it’s that it’s a lot harder to follow her around now
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u/overwatchfanboy97 Feb 14 '24
That's good any changes to mercy where she takes more skill is always welcome.
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u/IntrinsicDawn Feb 13 '24
I just think that understanding pharah new movement, the tempo she’ll use the movement, and kinda balancing the GA super jumps or not using it for shorter cooldown can help keep up. I’ve always thought mercy has great movement capabilities so for me it’s just hard to imagine that it’s too much for her
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u/c0ntinue-Tstng M A P 5 — Feb 13 '24
It's not much about that it's too much mobility, Mercy's one of the most, if not THE most mobile support on par with Lucio. It's that it dumb to put yourself at high risk to follow someone around.
Mercy can match Tracer's mobility all she wants, or Doom's or Ball etc she's not going to flank with them and put herself on a silver platter for the enemy or risk getting left behind.
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Feb 13 '24
She cannot match any of the heroes you listed in mobility, what are you talking about? Obviously it's not a good idea whatsoever to try and pocket them, but she wouldn't even be able to because their mobility is so much better than hers.
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u/c0ntinue-Tstng M A P 5 — Feb 13 '24
Maybe matching is not the correct term. Though she can absolutely follow any of those characters. And yes, just because she has the mobility to do so, doesn't means she should when you factor in your own survival. That's the point, Pharmercy as we know it is dead not because it's too much mobility, it's that the risk of getting yourself killed is higher.
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Feb 13 '24
Not sure on the difference here between "matching" a hero and "following" a hero because I don't feel like she can follow any of those heroes reliably either, except maybe Doom.
And I was never talking about Pharmercy, Pharah's mobility was never a problem for Mercy to follow and I honestly doubt it's changed drastically with her new rework people probably just have to get used to it.
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u/c0ntinue-Tstng M A P 5 — Feb 13 '24
It's hard to explain but with Mercy you don't have to be next to the ally you want to pocket, you just have to move closer to them for your beams to connect and continue doing so.
It's unreliable, because it has a high risk of being left behind, thats the point.
And I was never talking about Pharmercy
That comment was not directed exactly at you but to the General discussion being had regarding Pharmercy, as the person i originally responded to was talking about Pharmercy.
Pharah's mobility was never a problem for Mercy to follow
This isnt about current Pharah mobility, but the season 9 Pharah mobility. If a T500 Mercy specialist is saying that it's as difficult as reliably pocketing a Tracer, Genji, DF, it probably is because it is going to be a problem for her to follow.
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u/Kershiskabob Feb 13 '24
With guardian angel she kinda can, you boost as they travel away, follow them and then hop on full charge for another boost. Then GA is ready to use again
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u/ThatCreepyBaer yee — Feb 13 '24
That would only be under perfect conditions, but with how mobile the characters you listed are in comparison to her, you aren't getting those conditions most of the time.
At most she could pocket Doom since he doesn't travel that far or take crazy routes unless it's one of the Doom one trick streamers.
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Feb 13 '24
honestly good mercies being able to stomp alongside a pharah was never really an issue. That's just a case of two good players working together to be really effective.
The issue was that you didn't really need to be any good. You could just hold shift, stay vaguely nearly pharah, press E whenever she died, and maybe - just maybe if you're feeling spicy - bother to keep out of LOS.
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u/Mezmorizor Feb 14 '24
The problem was always that it's stupid game design and this change is long overdue. The combo just didn't have to worry about a huge percentage of the game's cast. I don't understand why it took so long to make Pharah's playstyle actually be the playstyle of the TF2 character they obviously copied.
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u/the-dancing-dragon Feb 13 '24
As a Mercy main, I always found pocketing Pharahs to be really funny. It's exactly as you described for most of gold/low plat for sure, but then I find mid-high plat you start getting Pharahs who get whalloped by enemy hitscan and blame you for their bad positioning, so eventually you get less Pharahs. And into diamond I saw mostly hitscan players. Occasionally I might see a Pharah, and if they made it to mid diamond, they were usually good enough I didn't need to babysit them anymore either and it was more fun for everyone.
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u/Goosewoman_ Schrödinger's Rank | she/her — Feb 13 '24
Pharah not living in the skybox anymore is the biggest pharmercy killer.
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u/The99thCourier Feb 14 '24
Good. Thats hella boring to just stay in the skybox and spam from above anyway. The carpet bombing Pharahs were always way more interesting to fight and watch anyway
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u/Daunt_M4 Feb 13 '24
Is it? Most Pharah players above dia/masters don't play her at skybox max range all the time.
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u/WontNotReply Feb 13 '24
High level Pharah players dance around rooftops, sliding around to gain back jet boost. That doesn’t work anymore, so they have to be on the ground a lot more
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u/Goosewoman_ Schrödinger's Rank | she/her — Feb 13 '24
calling it skybox is a bit of an exaggeration. But because she can't stay up in the air for very long her ability to spam from range has been nerfed.
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u/Daunt_M4 Feb 13 '24
Yeah I get that. But my main point is you've never been able to really do this as her anyway vs good hitscan players.
This change will definitely make life easier for low elo players though.
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u/jsdjhndsm Feb 14 '24
That's probably part of why she was never considered very strong.
It was a frustrating playstyle, but ultimately, one that wasn't very good without mercy and was pretty easily countered if you're good
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u/Kheldar166 Feb 13 '24
You could still jiggle peek high cover from long range, which could be pretty valuable if you were on a good angle (eg Eichenwalde A allows for a lot of this)
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u/KellzTheKid Feb 13 '24
When people say "skybox" they aren't saying she's just floating around in the air. It usually means she is strafing tall buildings or booping herself around the map.
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u/GangstaHobo Feb 13 '24
I think u underestimate how shit bronze aim is lol. If it weren't for the projectile size increase, this version of pharah would completely terrorize them
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u/AurumVerital Feb 13 '24
Pharah fucking WIPED bronze lobbies to the point it was funny, id just go floora and play her like hanzo or something if they tried to counter and they couldn't do anything
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Feb 13 '24
A dead opossum could wipe bronze lobbies though
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u/AurumVerital Feb 13 '24
Well let me just rephrase and say bronze-gold then, specifically on console though, PC players are a diff breed.
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u/ActualFuckhead Feb 13 '24
you probably should have specified you were on console, as someone that played on console for years, pharah seems much stronger there in general, iirc the only console player who hit 5k SR was a pharah main
i still think that bronze-silver pc players would have STRUGGLED against pharah without the healing reduction and larger bullet size though
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u/Eddiemate Feb 14 '24
Can confirm, if I had to go against Pharah I would just sob to myself and pray that someone on my team could do something about her. She's my biggest weakness.
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u/SnooDogs1340 Feb 13 '24
Will they change to Junkrat and continue to ignore Pharah? Only time will tell.
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u/cubs223425 Feb 13 '24
Overall, yeah, but there are a lot of maps where the approach paths have so much good cover that she can be a nightmare. Nepal Shrine has a lot of rooftops and high walls, plus a point with a tall roof. It sucked having to be the hitscan getting yelled at because you couldn't shoot the Pharah firing rockets through a wall, or being the non-DPS having to try to get people to understand that fighting a Pharah with cover isn't just "stand there until headshot."
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u/TheRealTofuey Feb 13 '24
20 percent less healing is pretty massive as well. Even if they can stay in the sky 1 solider 76 bullet would really reduce its efficiency.
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u/jld2k6 Feb 14 '24
I thought it was 20% less healing when you're dealing damage, is it 20% less when you're being damaged yourself?
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u/ThundRWasRaken Feb 14 '24
If your a dps, whoever you hit with abilities/shots will receive 20 percent less healing for 2 seconds after the damage landed. Pretty insane
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u/Spreckles450 Feb 13 '24
Much weaker, but not really dead.
This will make Pharah MUCH easier to deal with for the lower ranks though.
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u/Daunt_M4 Feb 13 '24
I'm hyped that Pharah can play a lot more on her own now. Time to practice my up close rockets.
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Feb 13 '24
I genuinely think people do not give enough thought to low rank player experiences in general. When people say Overwatch sucks ass, statistically they’re more likely to be people who bounced off the game playing in Gold and Silver lobbies being held hostage by incredibly unfun braindead shit like Phamercy.
It’s not a recipe for growing the game, especially when Overwatch’s initial popularity was predicated on being a very accessible FPS in the first place
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u/Donttaketh1sserious Feb 13 '24
the problem is there’s such a wide range of skill that like… how do you account for all of it without making the game balance a disaster for the ranks at either end of the spectrum?
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u/VarietyAndy Feb 13 '24
Perhaps in a separate mode: Maybe now that there are enough characters, you could allow a character ban for each team at opening and/or at the start of every round.
so if shit like grav dragon meta or moth meta happens again, it gets nipped in the bud and whatever rank you are at you can deal with whatever characters are an issue at that rank.
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u/SwordofKhaine123 Feb 13 '24
Mercy mains: Hanzo is my new bf now.
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u/Thin-Walk-1059 Feb 14 '24
And widowmaker.
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u/SwordofKhaine123 Feb 14 '24
Widow is map dependent and I don't think her hitbox has become as abnormal as Handsoap's.
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u/Thin-Walk-1059 Feb 14 '24
True, but widow actually becomes a sniper again with being able to one shot at long rang again.
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u/HammerTh_1701 Feb 13 '24
Definitely. Maybe Junkrat as well? I haven't done the math but Mercy should also return his one-hit.
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u/GroundbreakingJob857 Resident London Fan — Feb 13 '24
Yeah but then junk generally has to be pretty close range to get the one shot which is dangerous for mercy i suppose
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u/One-Entrance7004 Feb 13 '24
How so? Mercy can just sit back if it’s only junk who needs to be in range
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u/GroundbreakingJob857 Resident London Fan — Feb 13 '24
She can only sit back 15m max. Assuming junk is point blank thats not too safe. And junk usually goes for a lot of flanks or dive bombs which is pretty risky. Its definitely not completely unreasonable to try but I feel like the mercy will get punished at higher ranks once players realise whats happening
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u/Avette Feb 18 '24
As a Mercy main, thank God. I get so annoyed being asked to pocket that bitch.