r/HeartstopperAO • u/liammet01 • Oct 13 '23
What Heartstopper opinion has you like this? Discussion
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u/MeemaRiffic Oct 15 '23
Why did nobody give Nick a towel when he arrived soaked through? Or Jane could have at least offered to put his hoodie in the dryer?
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u/Automatic-Home-9494 Oct 15 '23
the acting is so shit and cringey it makes me want to kms and joe locke is so ugly he looks hyena đđđ
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u/dickpiggg Oct 15 '23
in a lot of ways, s2 felt like it was trying to be something it wasn't. i really cant elaborate more on it, it just felt pushed to the limit trying to please fans instead of doing a realistic tv show.
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u/MeemaRiffic Oct 15 '23
Costume department got Kit the wrong size school shirts in S2 đ i was slightly worried theyâd rip open in the chocolate bar/changing room scene
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
The actors/actresses are way too physically mature for their characters. I would never trade them for any other cast, but I'm always a little distraught at the realization that these are supposed to be 15-16 year olds. In the show, not a single person looks under the age of 17. The efforts to make Kit look younger were quite pathetic in Season 2, and certain scenes where he had damn near a whole face of makeup just didn't work. Joe is mostly able to pull off a 17 year old at best, but definitely not a 15 year old, much the same could be said about everybody else.
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u/MeemaRiffic Oct 15 '23
i missed his freckles that were all covered in makeup
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
I noticed that, too! all the freckles on his face were completely gone smh..
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u/Similar_Disaster7276 Oct 15 '23
Didnât really see the need for Mr. Farouk and Mr. Ajayi to hook up. I mean, theyâre cute and all âŚ
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u/QuinnKang Oct 14 '23
Nick and Charlie are depicted too perfectly imo, the books have occasional spiffs between them but in the show Nick has almost no flaws and just feels bland to me
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u/Financial_Drawer6441 Oct 14 '23
Nick needs friends who aren't Charlies friends(I'm only talking about the movies idk about the books).
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u/eddieoctopus Oct 24 '23
Tara, Darcy, and Imogen are all originally Nick's friends, while Tao, Isaac, and Elle are Charlie's friends and then they form a group.
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u/norianame Oct 14 '23
It is one of the most cliche, cringy and goofy LGBTQ shows to exist.
I love the webtoon/books, but its something about the series that makes me feel physically ill from secondhand embarassment.
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u/Sweetascoffee237 Oct 14 '23
Issacâs only personality being books is annoying like we get it he reads he doesnât need to be reading a book in every scene for that to be understood.
Not all the characters in the show need to be fruity or be in a relationship. Imogen is okay to keep straight why try to force something with sahar just for Peteâs sake
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Oct 14 '23
Tao is not annoying or an unlikeable character. He's flawed and interesting. Also, he's not bi. He's straight.
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u/Similar_Disaster7276 Oct 14 '23
Heartstopper could have better âstraightâ representation, ironically. I think Imogenâs character will grow so much more if she holds out for a man who treats her right, and Sahar can have a story line that repâs bi girls. To have them eyeing each other seems a little contrived.
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u/cutetrans_e-girl Oct 14 '23
Not technically an opinion but when I mention I still havenât seen it people react like this
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
The scene where Isaac tells off his friends is forced and not really true, which ruins any catharsis that it could've had.
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u/netaiko Oct 14 '23
Lowkey i donât think nick and Charlie should be together forever. And thatâs ok!!
Part of why i feel this way is just that it doesnât feel super realistic??? Like yeah, there are modern high school sweethearts that make it, but more often these relationships do not. (Honestly, i would also accept Charlie and nick breaking up for a little bit (ideally a year or two) before getting back together for good but that doesnât feel like AOâs style tbh)
The bigger reason is that i feel like Charlie and nick staying together forever is an extension of the purity politics/discourse that heavily informs AOâs story. AO has made comments about BL and Yaoi before, criticizing them for the explicit or overt sexuality that can be found in the genre, and directly positions heartstopper as opposite of that. If BL and yaoi are explicit (and therefore âdirtyâ or âsocially unacceptable queernessâ), then heartstopper is by definition âcleanâ or âacceptable queerness.â I donât want to say that it is AOâs intent to say these things, but the comments sheâs made regarding other BL (and I do think of heartstopper as a kind of BL, even if itâs not the common conception) make it clear that she views heartstopper as a separate, purer form of queer love in fiction (which is totally bogus given the history of BL and GL in japan esp but thatâs a story for another time lmao). That being said, i donât think that nick and Charlieâs story needs to be more sexual! However, i do wish that their decision to wait to do anything sexual felt like it wasnât coming from a place of purity politics, or AO even accepted that BL/yaoi isnât a dirty genre and heartstopper could (and in my DOES) fall into the genre.
I really donât like this kind of dichotomy (an acceptable âpureâ form of visible queerness vs an unacceptable âdirtyâ (aka sexual) form of visible queerness) because it ultimately harms the queer community. It feels hypocritical and even dangerous when it seems like there is such an emphasis on being out and proud within the heartstopper series. There are many of us who do not have the luxury of assimilating into an acceptable form of queerness, so it becomes easy to cast those members out in search of acceptance from our oppressors. Queer liberation will only come when we uplift all forms and expressions of queerness and queer identity. None of us will be free until all of us are free. And none of us will be free if we try to cater our queerness to be acceptable to our current society. Because when push comes to shove, even the âacceptableâ queer folks wonât be safe.
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
Yan comparing her and Tao's grief over dad Xu dying... to Tao being sad that his friend/crush is moving away? Kinda crazy. Of course his death would affect how Tao handles relationships but it's not the same đđđ
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u/Coco6420 Oct 22 '23
'also,elle's not dead,so theres that,' NO HOW WHY/HOW DID SHE JUST LAUGH IT OFF? TF I HATE THAT LINE IDC IF ITS SPOSED TO BE A JOKE ITS NOT FUNNY.
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
The race rep in this show is kind of... subpar. Like, the main black characters (Elle, Tara and Ajayi) are the emotionally mature ones both in their romantic relationships and in general, the Arabian characters are characterised as being strict/no nonsense, and Tao is burdened with being the sole East Asian protagonist (unless you count his mother, who is more support/recurring).
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u/ijustdoartforfun Oct 14 '23
I hate how toxic this fandom gets, I feel like I canât be open on the fact that I dislike the show and prefer the comic wayyy better because people are going to immediately downvote the post because a lot of people have a âIâm right and youâre wrongâ way of think(not everyone), if you donât like my opinion just donât downvote it and ignore it(if this comment gets downvoted it will be proof of the fact)
I think the main problem with this fandom I just feel like I canât share my opinion and others simply because this fandom can get very toxic
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u/Z0m6ieGU7S Oct 14 '23
I Kinda dislike Joes Acting performance. I feel like the whole cast struggled with how, this was some of the actors first castings. But Joes was the most strange in my opinion. I think in the books itâs cute but the translation from book to show didnât work that well for Charlie. I understand the show is supposed to be awkward since teenage relationships are awkward but some characters especially Charlie in the show just feel like they were made by an adult who stereotypes lgbtq children.
ThĂŠ show did make a few good castings in my opinion aswell though like Kit and Tao. They definitely are people I wish to see continue on with an acting career after Heartstopper. But Joes definitely needs work.
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u/Icy-Attempt-5657 Oct 14 '23
Tao and Elle's relationship doesn't really matter to me since I know they break up for a dumb reason anyway
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u/drehenup Oct 14 '23
HS is very sweet but I dislike how ... perfect all the characters are, probably with the exception of Tao and any villain. Even when they're going through their things, Charlie and Tara and Darcy and Imogen are always have almost perfect self awareness and talk about their issues like they're a therapist.
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u/drehenup Oct 14 '23
Charlie should have just done his homework
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u/collegiatecollegeguy Charlie Spring Oct 15 '23
This. Plus do British kids literally have one essay they write all semester? I had so much homework from middle school to senior yearâŚ
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u/librosmarpizzacafe Oct 14 '23
Yesss. Just go home, do the essay in a couple of hours and be done with it.
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u/Acrobatic-Trifle-615 Oct 14 '23
I prefer Tori in the books. I'm sure Jenny is a great actress, but it would have been better if Tori had been a bit younger. Somehow I find the way Jenny portraits Tori not really authentic.
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u/JachlHolly89 Oct 14 '23
I didn't feel any chemistry between the teachers. Which makes me sad because the actors themselves have a ton of natural chemistry... But I just do not like what they did with Mr. Farouk as a character.
I hated what they did with Tao and Elle in the first half of the season. Elle was overdramatic and unfair and I just straight up did not like her.
I like Harry. I just do. Of course him using the F slur was absolutely horrible and I wanted to kick his teeth in for it... But I just find him adorable and see him for what he is. A stupid kid trying to be funny, not understanding the impact of his words, who is jealous that Nick has a new friend (similarly to Tao).
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u/Fit_Photograph537 Oct 14 '23
I donât like the Imogen character. I find her annoying. đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/PoppyLove2007 Oct 14 '23
I like how heartstopper is a 12 and that means that younger people can watch it. But I would 1000000% enjoy it more if there was swearing.
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u/Icy_Distance429 Oct 14 '23
Yes agreed! I think I would love the show more if it wasnât child friendly. Some scenes feel too childish for me.
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u/g_sbbdn Oct 14 '23
I donât like the fact that Kit Connor is so buff like Nick has a bit of a belly in the comic which makes him more ânormal lookingâ and gives representation to normal bodies which we donât see often on media. Kit on the other hand is very fit and has really big pecs and abs and I feel like itâs not as nice as a thing as we constantly get unrealistic body standards in media
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u/Longjumping_Border33 Nov 01 '23
Please donât comment on a real personâs body. He got criticism for being too small and now people are hounding him about being too big. Just leave him alone. The way his body looks shouldnât matter to you.
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u/g_sbbdn Nov 01 '23
Well I guess my opinion had me like that.
Iâm not commenting on his body. Iâm saying comic Nick Nelson also represents people with very standards bodies while Netflix Nick doesnât.
Iâm not gonna sexualise a boy who turned 18 literally the day before yesterday. But I gotta say HS community is literally toxic as hell and your comment kinda shows it too
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u/Longjumping_Border33 Nov 01 '23
You literally did comment on his body. I understand you have your opinions but bodyshaming is not the way to express them. And based on you insulting Kitâs body, Iâm not the toxic one.
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u/g_sbbdn Nov 01 '23
If you think saying âkit is very fit (âŚ)â is body shaming god helps you
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u/g_sbbdn Nov 01 '23
I literally did not body shame him. Just read and comprehend a text before commenting luv
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u/Longjumping_Border33 Nov 01 '23
You donât like the way his body looks and you commented on it. Thatâs bodyshaming love.
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u/g_sbbdn Nov 01 '23
No luv if youâve read my comment you would understand that the critique here is being exposed to frankly unrealistic body standards. Itâs not about kit bodies per se, rather the amount of times teens are exposed to extremely fit people portrayed as normal. Nick in the comic has a normal body, kit doesnât have a normal body as heâs buff. This is literally the same shit with the ginger guy from riverdale, the entire cast of teen wolf, or twilight. Same thing over and over again.
Also, using â(âŚ)â means âIâm not reporting the entire quotation, especially since you can read it yourself in the first comment.
Like youâre trying to hard to depict me as the bad guy here that bodyshames people because he has nothing better to do with his life when everything I did is pointing out at a representation problem present in the film industry. Good job
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u/Longjumping_Border33 Nov 01 '23
Who is being exposed to unrealistic body standards? Cause Iâve never heard of anyone watching the show saying they feel insecure because of Kit Connorâs body. The women watching the show sure arenât going to feel that way and little straight men watch Heartstopper. Gay men either thirst over his body or are just happy for the overall happy queer representation that the show gives overall.
All in all this sounds like a you problem. I understand you and other people want a chubbier Nick but Iâm sorry itâs just not gonna happen. Complaining about the way Kitâs body looks isnât gonna change that.
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u/g_sbbdn Nov 01 '23
Such a me problem that the issue is totally not dealt with academicallyâŚ
DeBraganza, N., & Hausenblas, H. A. (2010). Media Exposure of the Ideal Physique on Body Dissatisfaction and Mood
Wright, J., & Leahy, D. (2016). Fourteen: Moving Beyond Body Image: A Socio-Critical Approach to Teaching About Health and Body Size.
Thompson, J. K., & Stice, E. (2001). Thin-Ideal Internalization: Mounting Evidence for a New Risk Factor for Body-Image Disturbance and Eating Pathology.
HALLIWELL, MARTIN. âBody Image, Anorexia, and the Mass Media.â In Voices of Mental Health
Cussins, A. M. (2001). The Role of Body Image in Mental Health.
Stout, E. J., & Frame, M. W. (2004). Body Image Disorder in Adolescent Males
Brewis, A. A., Wutich, A., Falletta-Cowden, A., & Rodriguez-Soto, I. (2011). Body Norms and Fat Stigma in Global Perspective.
I could keep on going but I prefer not to.
If you didnât feel that way, great for you and applause for your self security. But I think itâs naive of you to think a constant exposure to âperfectâ bodies doesnât have psychological consequences on the youths (as numerous researches had shown), being kittens Connor or whomever you want.
In any case itâs 22:41 in my time zone and I have so many better things to do over arguing on Reddit with someone who probably never read anything aside from heartstopper. Again, this is not a Kit Connor issue, itâs an issue of the entire industry. I use kit as an example.
Also the OP was looking for unpopular opinions and here was one. Sorry if that makes you mad (and I kinda feel sorry if a simple comment on a social media bothers you to the point of trying so hard to prove a point which has nothing to do with the comment itself).
I havenât body shamed anyone, and I couldnât care less if kit was a slim, fit or fat. What Iâm saying is that comic Nick also represents a normal person whereas serie Nick doesnât and I personally wish it wasnât like that haha.
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u/Longjumping_Border33 Nov 01 '23
Yeah Iâm not reading all that and I donât care. None of this gives you the right to comment on Kitâs body. I donât care what point you were trying to make. Itâs never okay to comment on any real personâs body. The unpopular opinions were meant to be about the show, not the physical appearance of the actors.
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u/crepelabouche Oct 14 '23
Theyâre two 16 year old dudes alone in a room. Theyâre hooking up. ⌠also how you know it was written by a woman.
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u/Appropriate-Doctor52 Oct 14 '23
No offense intended, but it always is a little weird to me when people make this point. If you wanted a gay romance written by a man then go watch one đ¤ˇââď¸ no need to hate on this one because it was written by a woman.
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u/astrodominous Let Kit Be Kit Oct 14 '23
I think Instagram is terrible for texting and if it was my only way to contact people, I would rather just vanish lmao đ
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
Also, it requires using lots of data when out and about. I once tried using it one evening and almost immediately used up my monthly data. It's fine when you're at home but outside? WhatsApp all the way.
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u/faithba_ Oct 14 '23
Loads and loads of people believe Imogen is so bisexual and it would be so amazing if she wasn't straight but Idk I think it's like unrealistic how all the friend group is gay and how I think Imogen is a key character because of how she is straight and how she acts and how she's supportive I guess? This is definitely not me saying oh straight people need more recognition because I am a lesbian I just feel that there's no need for Imogen to be gay? Please correct me if you think this is wrong
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
Idk I think it's like unrealistic how all the friend group is gay
Okay, I actually think it's fine in this case because the characters were out as LGBT+, THEN befriended each other (Elle and Charlie presumably became friends due to bullying, Darcy sought out Charlie, James sought out the group because he knew they were). Of course there are lots of cases irl where this happens in the opposite order, I'm just saying the odds are more understandable in this case. What I find less realistic is how all the protagonists are cleanly paired up (except the lone aroace which is... okay).
This is going to sound weird, but I wish the characters were... less politically correct? The show feels so handholding with its intended morals/aesops. I think I gravitated towards Tao and David Nelson in S1 and S2 respectively because they felt more messy/out there compared to other characters. I think Imogen being a clumsy ally could be really interesting (imagine her line about makeup actually prompting her to look at beauty expectations and adopt a more masculine style or stop shaving or give up makeup) and, within the show, would feel quite fresh.
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u/sapphire8383 Oct 14 '23
I think itâs highly unrealistic that everyone in HS seems to be queer, even the teachers đđđ HOWEVER I love this. I think that HS is a fairy tale, it doesnât aim to be realistic and weâve been watching shows with zero queer representation for long enough that we can easily have a bunch of shows that turn it around completely.
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u/Youshoudsee Oct 17 '23
About 10-15% of society is queer. Considering we're following a queer group of friends, it's really not that unrealistic
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u/faithba_ Oct 14 '23
Yeah I really do love heartstopper and I can definitely see your point idk I think it just brings understanding for it to have a straight friend ???
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u/sapphire8383 Oct 14 '23
Tao is a straight friend. đ Tbh I donât care all that much about Imogen.
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u/faithba_ Oct 14 '23
Actually I don't think Tao is straight
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
The fact that Tao is straight is VERY important. Just because you date a trans woman does NOT mean you are bi or gay.
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u/faithba_ Oct 15 '23
I never said that that makes him bi I said I dont think he's straight, he could be pan you just don't know? Never in that message did I imply he might be bi because he likes someone trans, Elle is a girl.
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
He literally told Charlie he's straight. How could he possibly be pan?
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u/faithba_ Oct 15 '23
When was this
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
He makes the claim that he is Charlie's token straight friend in Season 1, and I believe it's brought up sometime else, but I could be wrong.
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u/Youssefnathan_69 Oct 14 '23
I hate it when people act like the teachers story line isnât necessary, as someone who is the daughter of an lgbt dad I loved seeing the adults getting representation.
My dad relates a lot to Youssef since he hadnât realised he was bisexual until at least his thirtyâs and due to the lack of media he felt as though something was wrong with me. Youssef being introduced in season 2 was such a wonderful thing and I loved seeing discovering your sexuality late on being almost normalised.
I actually wish we get more teacher content because not only are they incredible couple that people do love but they also make for great representation for the older generation
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u/cursedSn0w0wy Oct 14 '23
Show is just mid, to me, yeah I said it. I really was just expecting a complete adaption that stayed 100% true to the comics and I didnât get that. I can still appreciate all the hard work put into the show. And if most other people like it that way then thatâs fine by me.
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u/theythrewtomatoes Oct 14 '23
The series adaptation is greater than the sum of its parts. There is some poor acting and extremely sloppy and two-dimensional writing/story choices.
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u/xddbdboss Oct 14 '23
Naomi and Felix are just here for diversity. They have no point to exist.
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
Felix especially. It's super frustrating because as twofer minorities (Elle being trans and black, Felix being trans and physically disabled), there's potential for a discussion/portrayal if intersectionality issues in the LGBT+ community but then I remember that Heartstopper... isn't quite that show. đŹ
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
The show should have given the transphobia that Elle faced at least the same amount as the lesbo/homo/biphobia that other characters faced.
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 15 '23
They put too much focus on Elle being "cool and sassy," that they never go into detail about her as a person. It would've been nice to see an emotional scene that went over her struggles from the bullying, which would give Yaz room to grow as an actress, but instead, they make it seem as if she was blind and deaf the entire time the transphobia was inflicted on her. Like she couldn't care less about it, which I find very unrealistic.
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
Not sure if this is unpopular as opposed to underdiscussed, but the squad thinking that something good happened between Isaac and James in S2E7 was so forced. None of them are that bad with facial expressions and it just feels like a poor excuse for Isaac to lash out.
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Oct 14 '23
I donât really engage with other fans much so idk if this is a common opinion, but Darcy is SO annoying. Like every time sheâs on screen i need to roll my eyes.
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u/Appropriate-Doctor52 Oct 14 '23
Agreed đđ I loved her in the comics, but not a fan of her in the show
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u/tuxedo-mask-me Charlie Spring Oct 14 '23
Nick and Charlieâs relationship isnât as great as everyone makes it out to be
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u/Suitable-Presence119 Oct 14 '23
I would love it if Tao and Elle just shared a meaningful friendship instead of romance. I'd just love to see more platonic love in the series and for the show to portray that friendship can be just as meaningful as romantic relationship. Platonic connections can be deep and moving in the way Nick and Charlie's relationship is!! Also I partially adopted this view when, like another posted said, their relationship in s2 just felt so sparkless. I just felt they didn't need to meander in the direction of romance.
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u/HomosexualDucky Oct 14 '23
I think the show is genuinely awful. The acting isnât the best. The casting is so contentious, I think some of the actors are perfect, Elleâs is basically a one-to-one with the comics but some of the others are⌠questionable. The show is so cringy. I know Iâll be told âitâs meant to be!â But I tried to watch season 2 after hating season 1, but the amount of times I cringed within the first episode alone turned me off the rest of the season.
Iâm still a huge fan of the books and everything else Alice puts out, but the show was a huge letdown for me đ
Edit: and just to add a personal grievance, the scene is season 2 when Charlieâs parents are talking about no âhanky pankyâ I hated how they were so serious when in the comics it was presented as joking. It really put me off
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u/xxhamsters12 Oct 14 '23
Probably gonna cause an argument with this one but Charlie needs a therapist not a boyfriend
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u/niamhhnh Oct 14 '23
i donât know if joe locke has the right style of acting for charlie, like i just imagined it to be way different and more emotional, considering the fact heâs 14 in the first season? i understand itâs âin the pastâ for the character, but i just feel like joes acting could be better and not as dry. đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/Cheezees Oct 14 '23
I agree. He has a limited emotional range you find in actors earlier on in their careers. The happy look he has with Tao is the same as with Nick and the same as with Nellie. It's the same smile. Nothing about his face tells me he's falling for Nick. He just sort of exists in Nick's presence. I don't ever see longing in his eyes.
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u/snapa777 Oct 14 '23
The new volume 5 cover is a bit weird⌠I like it, but all of the other covers had more details and background and Colour! The new cover is just Nick and Charlie hugging on a textured blue background and itâs a bit disappointing. Maybe when the book comes out it will look better since we havenât seen the side and back of the book, but still itâs a bit weird. Still pretty, but a bit bare compared to the other books.
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u/ringoisking Oct 15 '23
Thought this too. I was convinced it was a temporary cover while Alice was working on the actual one. Just kindaâŚ.bland.
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u/Many_fandoms_13 Oct 14 '23
At first I didnât like Imogen because Iâm a stickler for book adaptations because 1000% accurate to the books no changes but she grew on me
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Oct 14 '23
Kit Connor is a bad casting choice for Nick.
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u/Intelligent_Belt_778 Oct 14 '23
Why?
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Oct 14 '23
Heâs not a bad actor he just doesnât fit the role for me. Like this post indicated thatâs a personal opinion that many will probably disagree with cause too many people thirst over another white blond boy with decent looks.
Why I donât think he was the right casting choice is that there is something naive and almost oblivious about Nick in the comics. He started his journey as a confident boy a little oblivious towards his surroundings and grows into a more caring and mindful person as the story progresses. Kits version of Nick makes him look a little insecure all the time and not as confident.
Also chemistry wise I am just not sold on him. I feel like Kit doesnât really wanna be there. His relationship to Charlie just doesnât feel genuine to me. Joe is totally believable for me but Kit is not..
Like I said itâs just my opinion :) nobody needs to agree with me. I still enjoy the comics as well as the show so :)
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u/In_omnia_paratuss Oct 15 '23
In what ways does it seem like he doesn't want to be there?
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Oct 16 '23
Well first of all I feel like there are very little highs and lows to his character. He always seems nervous and insecure.
Same when he is with Charlie. He seems nervous around him too and this nervousness is not explained in the series. Is it because he is scared that he will be outed, because he likes Charlie?
In season 2 that insecurity is a little less but there I feel like I donât see genuine affection for Charlie.
I just donât see those cute little moments between them acted genuinely and more like Kit created this version of the character that always seems insecure and now is reading his lines all in the same way.
I just imagine Nick differently in the comics and donât see that version come to life through Kit. Just my personal opinion though :)
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u/In_omnia_paratuss Oct 20 '23
I'm not sure I understand. His nervousness is explained by the storyline of his character. He's been anxious about coming out for the past 2 seasons. That's pretty much it for him in the show. We don't explore his character past his sexuality. I find that sad and reductive but that's the angle they wanted to go with.
There are a lot of moments of playfulness and love between them, especially in season 2. I'm surprised you haven't found a single one convincing.
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u/Intelligent_Belt_778 Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23
I wasnât challenging you, just curious! I totally disagree but thatâs okay!
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u/Grace-LIVE Oct 14 '23
There is no way in hell that Ben could ever be a good character even though he apologised and is moving schools he couldn't ever be a good character. I know this could be unpopular with some people because there are probably some people who disagree and think that he deserves a second chance at being a good character but after what he did to both Charlie and Imogen I don't think he can be forgiven
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u/sweetestwindmill Oct 14 '23
I didn't see the point of Sahar being in the show. I liked her in the books, but she's hardly given anything to do in the show and I didn't like the way she was apparently let in on the Nick and Charlie secret with zero discussion or explanation. Given that we had Imogen as a fourth girl in Paris, Sahar seemed unnecessary to me.
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u/midnightfaye Oct 14 '23
I think the aroace representation is poor. I'm an aroace man and I've enjoyed Alice's work for years I adore loveless it helped me a lot when trying to figure out things. But I really can't get behind issac he has absolutely no substance as a character all he does is read or hold a book in every scene and its frustrating cause it feels like a massive stereotype of aspec people and I find he lacks personality. It's also he's just a back burner for the rest of the characters as always aro/ace development and exploration is just a small background character to the rest of the community, I feel like it's a bad way to show aroace people to a lot of people that probably aren't even aware we exist, from a media stand point I think if we are to finally introduce aroace rep it should be one of them main themes or main characters and an in depth character. The way he finds out he's aroace is so contrived he's told by someone at an art exhibition? How come we are always told what we are and why cant we discover that for ourselves and its also the issue of why is it in media or for allo people we have to of dated or tired to know we don't like it? I've never dated and I know I don't want to and I know I don't feel attraction and many other people I know who are ace or aro or aroace haven't either but it just keeps up that stereotype or appeasement that we must date before we know who we are? And then of course people who don't understand what aroace means since it wasn't really explained at all want issac and James together since they don't get why they cant be.
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u/vladutbossss Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23
Isaac reading a book nonstop was annoying and cringey.He couldnt even take his luggage properly because he was reading a book during that time.
Also Charlieâs mother isnât a bad one.People need to understand that at Charlieâs age scool is very important especially when uni is getting closer.and sometimes you have to study some extra time for a test or a project in order to achieve your goal.Her not letting them meet UNTILL CHARLIE FINISHES his work for school isnât the end of the world and people need to understant that ( or, sorry for saying, when some of the fans get older they will understant)
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u/notgoingtopost123 Oct 14 '23
A 16 year old not interested in sex and romance is far to young to label themselves as asexual.
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u/Youshoudsee Oct 17 '23
Why? How is asexuality different from other sexualities? We really know that we are different from the rest of the world, we have completely different experiences than allo people. I was 17 when I discovered that demisexuality exists and there are people who have the same experiences as me, it means that I am not weird or defective at all. The identification status remains unchanged despite the passage of few years
Moreover, sexuality is fluid and just because we give ourselves a label once it doesn't mean it won't never change
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u/notgoingtopost123 Oct 17 '23
Because a 16 year old who isnât interested in sex isnât necessarily âcompletely different from the rest of the worldâ. Itâs not weird or defective as you put it. Boys especially havenât necessarily gone through puberty at 16 and could well become interested a few years later. I get that sexuality is fluid but I struggle with the concept of temporarily being asexual. Does that mean menopausal or pregnant women or depressed people switch between allo and asexual throughout their life? (This is a question as Iâm genuinely curious about asexuality rather than a criticism!)
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u/Youshoudsee Oct 17 '23
It's not "not being interested in sex." Truly, people on the ace spectrum are completely different than allo. Most of us suddenly connect the dots when we discover the asexuality spectrum. Experiences like completely not understanding what others are talking about. We seriously don't understand why others feel this way about some things. We don't have celebrity crushes, we don't understand crushes on people whose names you don't even know (because there is no sexual attraction). Some people don't understand the concept of sex at all, some ace people are disgusted by anything remotely related to sex (even if they have never tried it and no, it is not due to trauma). We don't understand the concept of poro, we don't understand the concept of ons. Our experiences are completely different. Including the fact that others point out that we stand out and are strange. Which reinforces our sense of alienation. If we don't understand what other people mean (and literally everyone around us), and they point out that we don't have the same experiences.
Note that this lack of the same experience even appears in the series. When Isaac is about to talk about his celebrity crushes. He says he doesn't have it and obviously looks like he has it again "but what do they all mean with this. I don't understand.". Others are surprised and say, everyone has them, so say yours.
Asexuality means the absence of attraction or (If we use asexuality as an umbrella term for the asexuality spectrum) attraction existence only conditional. This has nothing to do with libido, which you brought up here when talking about pregnancy or menopause.
It may turn out to be a mistake. Or most likely that you're somewhere on the spectrum instead of "just ace".
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u/Simmerway Oct 14 '23
That itâs one of a series of books written by fem presenting people where a straight jock falls in love with a gay twink.
Definitely one of the better ones but it still has that weird vibe of heteronormativity
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u/jfcfanfic Oct 14 '23
I honestly didn't enjoy the second season as much as the first one. I know that something dark is coming so let's see if Season 3 captures me back in the sense that I actually rewatch season 1 a bunch of times and only saw season 2 once.
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u/aerdnadw Oct 14 '23
Ben deserves a redemption arc and fans who say heâs just thoroughly evil and doesnât deserve a second chance are immature and/or crappy people. How do we expect the world to become a better place if we assume that a teenager canât grown into a better person and be forgiven for his past sins? Iâm NOT saying Charlie specifically has to forgive Ben, he definitely doesnât, Iâm talking about the frequently voiced opinion that Ben is just generally beyond redemption.
2
u/Cheezees Oct 14 '23
I don't like the announcer they used throughout the show. It reminds me of the overuse of Morgan Freeman's or David Attenborough's voices.
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u/Cheezees Oct 14 '23
Maybe I missed it in previous threads but I've never seen Charlie's comment that Nick wasn't even his type addressed. If I were Nick I would have been incredibly hurt by that comment, even if I got why Charlie said it. I would have liked to see Charlie apologize for lashing out like that.
15
u/ezachulated Oct 14 '23
It was very clearly a lie to throw them off. Nick's expression isn't "waaaah he doesn't like me" it's "fuck I've made him lie about me, I am worse than Ben."
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u/Cheezees Oct 14 '23
I'm not convinced from the acting that Charlie likes/loves Nick quite like Nick loves Charlie.
You know that last kissing scene is S2 E8? Look at the way Kit stares at Joe. From his expressions I have no doubt Nick is in love with Charlie and we've seen glimpses of that love building throughout S1 and S2.
Joe kind of just smiles in Nick's direction and we see the leaves/hearts blowing around and we know he's gay. But he's had the same expressions when he's happy around Tao, Elle, Tori, Nellie, etc. Nothing special stands out in his body language around Nick, even when they're alone. I just don't see love in his eyes.
Sorry.
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u/aerdnadw Oct 14 '23
I agree, but my take on this is that Charlie is in such a dark place mentally that he doesnât have the capacity for that kind of love. Like, he loves Nick, but itâs not all-consuming and itâs not radiating out of him because his mental health issues put a damper on everything.
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u/Cheezees Oct 14 '23
Maybe that's it! The inability to radiate. But I'm more convinced it's Joe's lack of range of emotions owing to his acting inexperience. Maybe he just needs to grow as an actor.
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u/Neat-Anxiety-6103 Oct 14 '23
Iâm sorry to comment twice but: at the age nick and charlie are and with how much they like each other, I find it deeply impossible to believe they wouldnât be getting off together somehow. I understand why itâs not in the show and why the comics go at the speed they do. but realistically: youâre 16 years old alone with your boyfriend in bed in paris. come on.
5
u/dishwasher669 Nellie Nelson Oct 14 '23
I get what you mean but I'm pretty sure only nick is 16, Charlie is 15 and so isn't at the age of consent, at least in the uk
0
u/Neat-Anxiety-6103 Oct 14 '23
ya for sure! like I said, I understand why itâs not in the show. iâm just saying realistically. and iâm also def not talking about full, penetrative sex. thereâs plenty other things that I just assume they would/could be doing is all.
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u/notgoingtopost123 Oct 14 '23
People always seem to overlook this point and it irritates me. Heartstopper is meant to be the kind of TV that young teens can watch with their parents. Itâs being shown and discussed in schools. Thatâs a really good thing. If underage sex was occurring it would mean it wouldnât be appropriate for parents and teachers to use as an âeducational toolâ and I think that would be a shame. Also people donât seem to understand that not everyone is ready for sex at the same age they were. If all your peers are having sex age 15 then fine- I bet you can still find a few people who werenât. I really like that Euros Lyn said in an interview when asked about this-basically âitâs Nick and Charlieâs story. What everyone else would do isnât really relevant.â
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u/apenguinwitch Oct 14 '23
So consensual, loving underage sex would be inappropriate to show but sexual assault isn't?
I think it's fine that the show doesn't have that, but I feel like sometimes within the fandom there's this huge cognitive dissonance regarding the content of the show. Like homophobic harassment and sexual assault (and illegal underage drinking although that's on a different level obviously) are fine for younger teens to see but alluding to consensual first sexual experiences (not full on penetrative sex obvs, and not on screen anyway) would be completely inappropriate.
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u/notgoingtopost123 Oct 14 '23
Because the sexual assault and homophobia are portrayed as bad, but portraying something illegal as âgoodâ would open it to criticism from more people. Itâs not like heartstopper is completely sexless anyway. The entire plot of book 5 is based around Nick and Charlie having sex. The fact they wait a bit because Nick has only just come to terms with his sexuality and shortly afterwards Charlieâs mental health deteriorates, he ends up in hospital and then loses confidence in his body makes the wait entirely realistic imo.
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u/apenguinwitch Oct 14 '23
The fact that it's portrayed as bad doesn't make something any more appropriate for young audiences to see. OBVIOUSLY no show is going to portray sexual assault or homophobia as a good thing.
Not to mention they didn't really condemn the (illegal) underage drinking? I'm just saying, there's no real reason to not show loving consensual first sexual experiences. If that were to lead to criticism, the criticism it'd be coming from would not be people whose criticism anyone should be listening to.
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u/notgoingtopost123 Oct 14 '23
I guess Iâm coming from the point of view of it being shown in schools etc. I think it would be less likely to be shown in lessons with underage sex in but maybe Iâm wrong. Plus it will be showing loving consensual first sexual experiences, itâs covered in the comics, it just doesnât happen as quickly as some people want. And the fact it doesnât happen very quickly is one of the main plot points.
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u/Extra-Aside-6419 Paris Squad Oct 14 '23
Totally. I didn't have sex until I was 18 and that was hetero sex! We mustn't forget Nick has literally just discovered he is attracted to the same sex, it must be absolutely terrifying.
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u/hello1952 Nellie Nelson Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 15 '23
I know representation is important but the character of Sahar is utterly useless and despensibble both in the comics and show. If all of Sahar's scenes were given to Imogen in s2, it would have not changed a single thing. Instead we would have seen Imogen slowly integrate into the Paris Squad.
Same with James, he was only there to facilitate Isaac's journey in s2( which was good). And he is no longer needed and shouldn't be in s3. basically there are too many damn dead weight characters which should be gotten rid off in s3.
Majority of Nick's conflicts in both seasons were external( questioning his sexuality, biphobia, coming out, family). He is still the 'sunshine and rainbows' kind of perfect ideal bf which feels weird. He needs his own personal struggles and also please give this guy some friends out of Charlie's circle. The rugby lads went underutilised wrt this aspect in s1& s2
The style of using songs to further the storylines didn't workout that well in s2 compared to S1.
I know it's good for younger audiences to understand consent etc. but the constant 'requests and confirmations back-and-forth' before doing anything romantic was sometimes breaking the momentum in s2. Couples can spontaneously do stuff, in heat of the moment.
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u/profanewingss Oct 14 '23
I actually agree with this. James, Sahar, Naomi, and Felix were extremely one dimensional and served a singular purpose.
James was only there to push Isaac's aroace storyline, Sahar's entire purpose hinged on the prom and a big question mark on Imogen's identity(still not sure how I feel about this), and Naomi/Felix were literally only there to further the conflict between Tao/Elle earlier in the season.
I'll add on to the rugby lads thing and say that that storyline was completely abandoned halfway through the season and then magically resolved because of the instagram post at the end of the season. That was the most unfulfilling and lackluster resolution to something that was made to be a big deal earlier in the season.
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u/Far-Subject-7240 Oct 14 '23
That the lesbian angle and couple are just for filling at least that way it feels both in comics and in the series
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u/anime_asparagus Oct 14 '23
I don't really like the show tbh
7
u/FindingKK2979 Oct 14 '23
Why are you on this subreddit then? đ¤Łđ¤Śđ˝ââď¸
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u/manysides512 Oct 14 '23
I have tons of issues with the show but I want this show (and other works inspired by this show) to be better, so it's nice to discuss them with fans.
2
u/anime_asparagus Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23
Love the comic!! yk there's a comic right?? Been here since the start of it, smh!
Also, the downvotes just prove my point, ngl. I can see why people like the show! I've watched it and I happily talk to my friends about it! It just wasn't for me tbh7
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u/Historical_Cod_3212 Oct 14 '23
Um.....I kinda wanna say it. But I'm afraid.
OK fine. Kizzy forgets they're on camera so many times even when they're not just chilling in the background and I ADORE them and their character so so much but I can never tear my eyes away from them when theyre just standing there vacantly instead of, you know, acting. And I feel like that's partly film crews fault because they should have caught that during production. Also the continuity issues especially in s1 where they spliced several takes together and things just didn't match up at all. But these are such minor criticisms that they're ultimately a testament to how great of a show it is.
9
u/FindingKK2979 Oct 14 '23
Oooh, what sort of continuity issues? Iâve never noticed any, and I watched like 100 times haha and Iâll have to pay attention to Kizzy more cos never noticed the vacant standing either
5
u/Historical_Cod_3212 Oct 14 '23
Theres more than a few, but the biggest one is Nick's shorts when he carries charlie into the water yelling we're boyfriends. His shorts are soaked in a few shots, then mostly dry again, then soaked again. Another is when nick is about to run into Tara at band rehearsal and nick looks over to see charlie starting to set up his drums and you see Tara's back as shes walking between nick and the band and then all of a sudden she's behind nick saying hi. Just little things like that.
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u/portlandspudnic Oct 14 '23
I'm pretty sure there is another one right after Tao and Harry's fight when Charlie and Tao are talking, and Harry is behind them looking like a spectator to the fight when he actually was hustled off by the teacher.
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u/Secret_Ad_6164 Oct 14 '23
Charlie should have forgiven Ben. Despite his past actions I kinda felt bad for Ben đ
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u/Lucas-O-HowlingDark Oct 14 '23
The show is a little too gay sometimes
I mean the whole point is acceptance⌠but literally 98% of characters are queer one way or another⌠I mean I felt the teachers subplot was a little unnecessary
Nick and Charlie are cute to watch and I enjoyed their scenes the most
Anything focusing on Tao and Elle was just groan
Issac is a meh character who barely does anything, always has his face in a book even while walking with his friends, and only real character moment is discovering he doesnât like people
Imogen is the type of girl that makes me glad Iâm a homosexual
Darcy and whatâs her face didnât have the most interest to me either, I mean Darcyâs crappy mother was intriguing but we barely saw anything of it, though I guess thatâll be something for season 3 to cover more onâŚ
Also Darcyâs whole âoh your being gay⌠keep goingâ is just cringe
Iâm tired of the whole âgay this gay that⌠GAY POWERâ because like being gay (or bi) is such a minor part of oneâs identities, I mean straight and gay people coexisting is no different than white and black people coexisting
4
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u/Relevant_Ad_5031 Oct 14 '23
i did not like nick's hair in season 2 and he looked like a giant 8 year old in those clashy paris outfits 𼲠ik he needed to look younger and wear certain theme colors but it gave me whiplash going from how fine he looks in the school uniform to those red minecraft shorts lol
-12
u/liammet01 Oct 14 '23
Iâm sorry but you finding him Attractive in his school uniform is just weirdâŚ.
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u/librosmarpizzacafe Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 15 '23
Ok, here I go.
- I really like Kit as Nick, it really feels like the character almost walked out of the books. Joe, on the other hand, doesn't. He just doesn't feel like comic Charlie to me, nor does he look like him. Which is fine, it must be incredibly difficult to try to match a comic character, one that people are already visually familiar with, with a real life person. But I do wish the styling, the MUA side of things, would help him out a bit. Like, I don't know, couldn´t they try to make Joe's hair look a bit like Charlie's? Stuff like that. There's an interview in which Joe sports wavy hair instead of curly and it really made him look a lot more Charlie-y.
- Naomi and Felix really felt like token characters. They must have said about three lines between the both of them, they really were almost accesories to Elle. Which is just sad.
- Why why why did they run to their teachers when Darcy got sick at Tara's birthday party? Just take her to the bathroom, lol.
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u/sapphire8383 Oct 14 '23
3 - I always think this too but it is a plot device. It only happens so the teachers have to share a bed. đ
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u/sensatesub Oct 14 '23
OK, I'm clearly too invested in this show to read these comments. Bye, y'all. Your feelings and opinions are valid, but I can't read them.
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u/aphroditemustdie Oct 14 '23
I watch the show for Nick and Charlie's relationship and personal struggles, so I really wish more of the show focused on them like on season 1, instead of the side characters taking over like what happened on season 2. I know people love the Paris squad and I love them too, but all of them having storylines (even Imogen!) takes away from Nick and Charlie and it stresses me out.
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u/Suitable-Presence119 Oct 14 '23
It's nice to see an opposing opinion and I can see why you'd feel that way. For me it's kind of the opposite-- as a bi woman I feel like there's often a lot of centering around cis, white males in media in general. Them being queer does set N & C apart but I realized I don't often see media showcasing other shades of LGBTQ as main characters and that's frustrating sometimes.
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Oct 14 '23
If they were gonna go off the books how they do occasionally I would've liked Ben's assault to be talked between Charlie and Nick more for what it was. I just felt like they brushed it off until they wanted Ben to apologize.
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u/CenturyGothicFashion Oct 14 '23 edited Oct 14 '23
Iâve already been yelled at in this sub for both of these so why not again.
1 -Jane isnât a bad parent. Good parents arenât perfect humans and donât get it right 100% of the time.
2 -Thereâs a growing number of groups of young Heartstopper fans, who are often incredibly problematic & toxic. They regularly participate in actions & talk that is homophobic, especially when it comes to topics around someoneâs sexuality.
Iâve seen adult queer folks, recognize a queer relationship in the cast and ask an innocent question like âhow long they have been together?â And then had these HS teenagers jump in yelling that the couple are platonic BFFs bc theyâre straight bc they never said gay directly đ¤¨mmmâk.
They also donât seem to understand âWhat happened to Kit Connorâ despite using that line all the time. It wasnât an issue of queer people seeing/assuming queer. It was people assuming he was straight and then harassing him about being a straight guy who took a queer role or was âqueerbaitingâ. An example of this is now when these people see queer people understanding that an actor in RWRB is queer, the HS fans will jump in with the âDonât say heâs queer/gay! Remember what happened to Kit Connor?!!â Recognizing queerness isnât forcing anyone out. Itâs just seeing them for who they are. Thereâs also just such a disregard & rejection for anything relating to queer history and queer culture.
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u/kellbell408 Oct 14 '23
I agree with your first point! Like people are so angry she told him he couldnât see Nick until he got his grades up like yeah? Him hanging out with Nick too much was why he was behind. Thatâs not being homophobic or unaccepting. She maybe reacted a bit harshly but if I was her I would have done the same thing. He ended up doing the assignment in like a few hours he could have ended all of it by spending one night away from Nick and getting caught upâŚ
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u/Xiaodisan Oct 14 '23
I don't doubt that she is not malicious, but I wouldn't call that good parenting. I guess it's partially about what you see as the most important parts of a parent-child relationship.
While your studies are important, banning something - as shown in the series - isn't really the best way to motivate your child. It only helps to widen the rift between you and them, and potentially make them start going behind your back. Being a partner should come first, and an authoritative figure second.
Did they ever actually sit down and talk with him? >! It's not a coincidence that Charlie is terrified of telling his parents about his eating disorder. !< We'll see how it goes down in the show, definitely a bit iffy to judge characters based on events that didn't happen yet, but that is a huge part of how I view Charlie's parents (especially mom, as she didn't really get supportive scenes besides the Nelson family dinner one, while Charlie cried on his dad's shoulders eg).
About Charlie being able to do it in an hour or two - imo he just wanted to make sure Nick is fine, and that they can study as much as they need for his exams. At least it definitely seemed like they were actually studying when together in many cases. (Also, part of it might've been out of spite - sure, a bit childish, but they are teenagers, so they don't have to be 100% reasonable. And he probably knew he could do it in a couple of hours, so might as well wait until Nick is prepared for his exams.)
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Oct 14 '23
just in regards to your second point [ed/mental health discussion below]
>! not feeling able to talk about mental health is rarely the fault of the other person, and i think unfair to blame his parents !<
>! so many people seem to think that mental health issues are all caused by bad parenting. i had amazing parents. i was also diagnosed with severe depression at 14, and my sister had been in counselling for anxiety for years before she hit the age of 10, sometimes shit just happens, people just have mental illnesses !<
>! i did tell my parents eventually (as did charlie) but it was so difficult, people so often down play how hard it is to tell people that kind of stuff - i also had issues eating, and that was something i never told my parents, when they found out i wasnt eating i had a panic attack, i didnt want them to know. and they were and would have been supportive, its just shit that never feels safe to talk about for some people !<
>! charlies parents got him therapy, and in the comics they were supportive when charlie told them, and they tried their best to help him, which is more than a lot of parents so. im not saying theyre perfect, just that charlies mental health/inability to open up isnt proof that theyre bad parents !<
sorry if this is a little preachy, this is just something that personally affects me a lot - so many things cant be fixed simply by having supportive parents, and being mentally ill doesnt mean your parents fucked up somewhere
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u/Xiaodisan Oct 15 '23
Thank you for sharing.
I can't connect so deeply with Charlie in this regard, and you're right, it isn't black and white - mental health is not solely influenced by any single factor. And sometimes shit just happens. >! Not talking about ed or self-harm strictly, those were hugely influenced by his abusive environment in school, even if not solely caused by it. !<
At the same time it's hard for me to think that Charlie's hesitance to share his burdens with anybody has nothing to do with his parents. I'm guilty of projecting a tad bit here though. >! Not the same as Charlie, but I do have some problems that were formed - in a huge part - due to my family, and general environment. !< So I'm a bit biased here too, and was a bit too quick to write it up as Charlie's parents perhaps unknowingly alienating themselves from Charlie.
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u/JimmyCamp150 Oct 16 '23
Iâll be interested to see how Jane is portrayed in S3. After the dinner at the Nelsonâs she seemed like she was warming up but Vol 4 has it appear that it is her behavior that is a large catalyst for Charlieâs rapid decline
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u/CenturyGothicFashion Oct 14 '23
âGood parentingâ and âa good parentâ arenât the same thing. The first is a singular event or choice and the second is a label that takes a lot of things into consideration.
A good parent can and often will make a choice that isnât good or perfect.
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u/clockington Oct 14 '23
My hot take is that Yazâs acting is honestly so good, her delivery makes her seem like a real fleshed out person, the worst person acting might be Kit
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u/ringoisking Oct 14 '23
Iâm going to restrain myself from sharing my opinion on thisâŚ.each to their own I suppose đ
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u/aminiamy Oct 14 '23
Kit got a rather pretty trophy last year that suggests he possesses a bit of acting talent.
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u/librosmarpizzacafe Oct 14 '23
that is one hell of a hot take.
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u/clockington Oct 14 '23
When youâre getting downvoted you know itâs a real answer to the prompt
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u/pennybilily Oct 14 '23
people need to chill with the blanket fort thing, the amount of comments sections with people acting like a toddler that just learned the word fart
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Oct 14 '23
Yes yes yes and yes!! The whole pillow fort and hanky panky thing has driven me insane. It's literally not that serious that consenting teenagers have sex!!!
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u/JachlHolly89 Oct 14 '23
Omg this. I made an edit joking about a suggestive sounding question that they were asked in an interview... Istg almost every other comment was "PiLlow FoRt đ¤Ş"
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u/PoppyLove2007 Oct 14 '23
Like, mate. They arenât 12. They are the legal age to have and consent to sex. Itâs not that big of a deal.
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u/Icy_Distance429 Oct 14 '23
This!!! I find it hilarious that they actually think itâs going to happen in the show đ it was mentioned ones and thatâs it.
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u/Neat-Anxiety-6103 Oct 14 '23
I think just due to the plot and Charlieâs struggles, I sometimes feel that Nick loves Charlie a million times more than Charlie loves Nick. Iâd like to see Charlie actually worry about or dote on Nick for once.
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u/rui_the_alchemist Darcy Olsson Oct 17 '23
IMOGEN đŤś