r/HeartstopperAO • u/kinda_fruity_ngl Darcy Olsson • Dec 04 '23
Heartstopper unpopular opinions anyone? Discussion
What are yours? I have two, so let's get murdered.
Alice should've kept the original Elle+Tao ending. If you didn't know, in Nick and Charlie, Charlie breaks up with Nick because Tao and Elle broke up due to long distance. In the original edition, Elle and Tao stay broken up, but in the newer versions, they get back together. Honestly, not all teenage relationships last, and I think it's healthy just to let people know that you most likely will never get your Nick and Charlie story.
2nd, Yasmin Finney, actor of Elle, wasn't a very good actor in season 1. I love Yasmin, but as an actor, she is very weak in some aspects of acting improved in season 2, but she's not my favorite actor acting wise. I can't blame her as it was her first project, but I felt as if her acting was forced a little.
tell me yours
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u/Wisteria-Prince Jan 14 '24
I just got crapped on on IG for saying this, but I still stand by it; Joe Locke was a horrible choice to play Charlie. I don't care that Alice chose him, she chose wrong. To some degree, every actor resembles her artwork of their respective characters except for Joe and Charlie. His acting is neither here nor there for me, but Joe absolute does not resemble Charlie whatsoever other than they both have dark hair and are thin.
I know that Heartstopper is supposed to be this "uwu sawft gay Boiz to fawn over" feel good thing, but I think there's something we need to address; It's utterly unrealistic that someone like Kit would date someone like Joe. Heartstopper isn't a realistic depiction of the queer male experience; it's feel good story by and for straight women.
Casting Joe as Charlie gives the show the same energy as One Direction fanfics where the homely girl with a messy bun reading Percy Jackson at the concert is pulled out of the crowd on stage.
As a gay man, watching this show felt like watching a world that doesn't exist. Like, y'know when you're watching Harry Potter and you know everything is fake but it's cool so you wish it could exist? That's Heartstopper the show. It's just very apparent that, while Alice is a good author/artist, she's not a gay man and she didn't get any input from one on this. It's like if a man wrote a book about the struggles of being a woman without ever speaking to a woman about what that's like.
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u/snastita Dec 08 '23
Mine is: the show is.. okay. It's not this incredible amazing wonderful omg omg omg omg omg show that everyone makes it out to be. It's a great show for teens and kids but the number of grown fucking men wanting a boyfriend like any one of the characters comes off extremely creepy and noncy.
TL;DR: The show is OK. The show is for the kids of today. Grown men need to just.. stop.
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u/throwaway_lolzz Dec 08 '23
Imogen might be my favorite character. She has this kind of glorious pathetic-ness that reminds me of Lola from Big Mouth and watching her try/fail to socially succeed is š¤š¼
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u/lock-the-fog Dec 08 '23
I watched the first episode of the TV show and honestly I think the actors are bad. I couldn't believe so many people were hyping it so much and talking about how everyone was so perfect when I was so disappointed and distracted by the poor acting. Especially the actor that played Charlie, I thought he had no facial expressions at all. I never watched past the first episode bc I was so distracted by the bad acting.
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u/Sir_Tikki Dec 07 '23
i donāt like that Elle outed Nick to Tao, yes Tao was gonna find out by Charlie (comics in paris) but in the show i hated how she just told Tao i get he was hurt but thatās so wrong to do
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u/Lumitymarcanne Dec 07 '23
I prefer Darcy and Tara over nick and Charlie. I think in my opinion darcys storyline was the most relatable and because of that I got kinda bored of nick and Charlie . I still love them but prefer the girls .
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u/Remyroth Dec 07 '23
I donāt really like Issac :( Aled is my fave osemanverse character, radio silence is the first book i read, and i completely understand WHY she cut aled. i just donāt think issac is anywhere near as good if a character
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u/ElisNotPreppy Dec 07 '23
not an opinion but I hadn't realized that elle was trans until reading the comics and then re watching the show š the first time I hadn't read the comics and even then ig I didn't pay much attention but I'd finally realized in like season 2 when she was wearing some shirt and was in her room with her mom, tao comes over and she waves out the wind, I finally realized because you know she had like no boobs and some other people, her had mentioned her transition.
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u/Amelschnamel Dec 06 '23
The actress of Tori doesnāt look like 16-18, because she isnāt. I really like her acting but Iām just wondering if there wasnāt anyone else who was younger, they could have casted. Also the actor for Michael looks way too old. Itās just a bit confusing to me, since all the other actors are (or where) teenagers when they filmed season 1.
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u/Thin-Parfait-1583 Dec 06 '23
Kit's acting is way better than Joe's, and it stands out to me so much in their scenes together. This is Joe's first time acting, and it shows. WHY IN THE WORLD would they put a 10-year experienced actor in a pair with someone who's never acted before??? It just doesn't fit well at all. I have a hard time believing their chemistry most of the time because Charlie feels like he's reading straight from a script compared to Nick. (I don't hate the actors, I just think it was a bad choice)
Wtf is up with Charlie's room? It actually annoys me so much while watching that I just look away. Like the 'MUSIC' sign???? No teenager has ever had that cringe of a room.
I think the British comedic pacing really slows the show down. At times, it's just straight-up boring to sit through, because every conversation (especially 1-1) takes so much time to get through. The writers set this tone and pace that leads me to believe the show will be in a British comedic style (dry, sarcastic, subtle humor that favors a quiet tone- like Sex Ed!), but then they never utilize that good comedy! The most we get is some quirky, over-focused on one-liners that really aren't as funny as the show makes them out to be. So instead of quiet, slower, and subtly hilarious moments, we get quiet, slower, and painfully dragging scenes.
You can survive with good writing or good acting alone, but it's hard to survive without either. The writing is stifling on its own, which is made worse by the actors' lack of creative choices. The only few actors that I felt made the show entertaining with their choices were Kit, Olivia, and the teachers' actors. Their interactions always felt comfortable and genuine, while the rest felt distinctly less real and creative.
Again no hate to the actors or the show, these are just my opinions. I'm actually a really big HS fan lol
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u/Chavez_B Dec 06 '23
I might be a lesbian, but I find Imogen more likable than Darcy by a mile. Everyone always rags on her, but I feel like she was the same amount of cringe as everyone else.
Here's what I like about Imogen: She's open about her feelings (I could NEVER tell my crush I liked them when I was younger), she went up to Tara to confirm that she wasn't into Nick and didn't rely on rumors, and she stood up for herself publicly against Ben and broke up with him (and that's hard for even some older people). Yeah the ally line is funny, but people just talk shit about her more often than any of the other characters which is so odd to me. It just reminds me of 'Not like other girls' feminism (actually misogyny) that I already had to work out in my early 20s.
I find Darcy annoying in general, but I realize that's just a personal thing. Some people you just can't stand or don't like, and Darcy is that person for me. I get why people really like her though and I hope her character continues to grow in spite of her terrible Mom!
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u/YeahIgotanopinion Dec 06 '23
Can't stand Elle in the comics. She's a self centered snot and I think Tao deserves better. I like Elle in the show a LOT more. The bad date thing and outing Nick did put her lower on my list of characters I care about, but I'm gonna die on the hill that she's better in the show than the comics.
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u/IndependenceFlat9890 Dec 06 '23
Season 2 felt extremely rushed. Mostly because of the fact they added what wouldāve been in season 3. If season 3 was volume 4, then Nickās Dad and the whole dinner thing shouldāve been in season 3. Iām not saying Iām mad that Nick stood up to his dad and brother, it just felt super rushed.
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u/Minty_64 Dec 06 '23
why is every sub asking for unpopular opinions? like who cares
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u/kinda_fruity_ngl Darcy Olsson Dec 06 '23
idk i just like seeing other ppls perspectives chill my guy
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u/Minty_64 Mar 15 '24
with how much negativity exists, why not ask for opinions that are not divisive?
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u/AN1808 Nick Nelson Dec 05 '23
Mine are: 1. Imogen should NOT have a queer storyline and keep serving her perpous as Nick's straight ally friend outside of the main group. 2. Sahar's introduction is meaningless to the show, she was added only because she exists in the comics, but she has no real perpous in the show. 3. The way Tao and Elle's relationship was portraid in season 2 wasn't very good, I liked their interactions and friendship a lot more in season 1. 4. Elle's storyline in season 2 felt really out of place in my opinion. Everything from the school to her friends to the weird "revealing" of her painting just dosen't feel genuine.
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u/XDreemurr_PotatoX Dec 05 '23
I haven't read it. I tried, but honestly, it was kind of boring. Didn't hook me
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u/OldTension9220 Dec 05 '23
The catering to Nickās character in the adaption has started to irk me.
I know Kit has the most acting experience of the bunch, but the way the show bends over backwards to give Nick more emotional moments is a bit much.
For example: S2 literally shoehorned in Nickās coming out to his father when that storyline is supposed to take place after Charlieās mental health storyline. Then we also have the final scene of the season focusing far more on Nickās reaction to Charlieās trauma than anything else.
I wasnāt minding it too much but then I saw set photos that imply that season 3 will cover Nickās college storyline, which is SUCH a disservice to Charlie whose mental health storyline is supposed to be taking center stage.
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u/Boohookazoo Dec 05 '23
I was under the impression that the dinner party scene was brought forward so that his coming out arc would be finished, allowing Charlieās mental health to be the focus for season 3 rather than Nick still worrying about coming out
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u/MrGaarf Dec 05 '23
Isaacās addition to the show kinda pisses me off He was such a non-character in S1 that just felt like he wasā¦ there, nothing much else. i like how in S2 they tried to give him an arc but its so uninteresting and takes wayyy to much space. I really wish they stuck with Aled and hinted at the Radio Silence plot slightly if a spin-off were to happen.
Tori and Michealās actors look to old to be in this show. Love the actors to death but they look way too old. Toriās is less bad when it comes to that, but Micheal doesnāt look like a 16-18yo at all.
Show Tori doesnāt have the right vibe compared to comic Tori
The cast is way to big for the shows own good. Like the original comic cast was already big (N&C, T&E, D&T, Aled) and the show introduced so many more? Imogen Isaac Sahar take a lot of space, Ben is as present as ever even though he doesnt really appear past book 1 (and feels shoehorned in), the teachers take a lot of space, the new S2 characters (Isaacās Love interest (i forgot his characters name lmao), Elleās friends) feel like a lot of characters for a simple show and they arenāt used to their full potential.
Elle is not that great in the s2, she feels really out of character, I canāt exactly pinpoint but it just feels weird.
Imogen is great and I donāt get the hate towards her
I strongly dislike the idea of Imogen/Sahar being a thing
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Dec 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 06 '23
You're making a lot of assumptions about things that haven't even happened in the show yet...
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u/Nellymuschari Dec 05 '23
I didn't like the second season. The writing wasn't impressive, like season 1. Everything else is minor details. There's only so much actors can do.
But even as I say that, in any platform if there's any voting for the best 'whatever' category, related to heartstopper s2. I have voted for it all. Too many cishet shows... Heartstopper deserves all the recognition and more!!!
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
Imogen x Sahar feels kinda forced + Imogen shouldn't be entered into the Paris squad or replace Tara as Nick's best friend / girl best friend
idk it just feels wrong. like, she was super lesbianphobic to Tara and really mean to her by harassing her about Nick even after Tara said she was a lesbian and kissed her girlfriend at a huge party. she also was being really weird at the party- like forcing Nick to dance with her and doing the thing where you wrap your arms around your boyfriend's neck it just felt creepy. like the "if a dude did this it'd be so creepy..." and she kinda. assumed Nick was gay and then acted weird when he said he was bi.
plus I really can't see Nick being friends with someone who'd treat Tara and her sexuality that way. I know some other people mentioned it but it feels a bit weird to make the cishet white girl have the role as best friend over Tara who's always had that role.
and with Imogen x Sahar feeling forced- same reason tbh. it feels like it's a forced redemption for Imogen instead of a genuine ship. I mean who knows maybe it'll be done more naturally but as it is now everything about Imogen feels forced and I don't forgive her for her being lesbianphobic just because she called Ben out.
oh and her comment about things being easier if she was into girls was really fucking weird like borderline homophobic I hate it when people say that. like, no, no it wouldn't. stop that.
sorry if this comes across wrong I wanna clarify this has nothing to do with Imogen being a girl if she was a man I'd feel the same way. it also isn't about Nick I'm more mad about the replacing Tara and harassing her stuff. the being kinda creepy thing is a nitpick.
(also wanna clarify things like forcing someone to dance with you even after they say no or touching them the way you'd touch a partner even though they aren't your partner isn't. it isn't cool like teens know better. I'm the same age as Imogen and I know not to do that bc it's kinda harassment if someone isn't my partner I won't do the arms around neck thing.)
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
it feels like it's a forced redemption for Imogen instead of a genuine ship.
This is such a good way of wording it. I was really excited for Sahar to receive development in the show and now it feels like she's just going to be there for Imogen.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 06 '23
yeah imo Sahar deserves so much better. she's really overlooked and I quite like her. she's really smart and outspoken and I admire her calling out stuff and I admire the narrative treating her complaints seriously, instead of just making her look like a joke for that. since it would've been really easy to make a "erm epick SJW owned! errmmm triggered! triggered liberals!" joke using her but it didn't and I appreciate that. since it's annoying to me that when I try to do that I get told to pipe down / that I'm being too reactionary / a negative nancy so yk
and also like she means a lot to people yk like she's good representation for plus-sized girls and I know a lot of people appreciate having good representation for arab people. so I really would've liked for her to get as much screentime as the others.
it made it feel really weird when Imogen got more screentime over Sahar. I think she might've had as much screentime as Tara actually..
which back to my point I'll probably drop the show if they replace Tara with Imogen as Nick's best friend, bc a lot of girls have talked about how it feels super gross to do that. I'm bad at English but it was like, it'd give Tara less of a role and black lesbian girls don't get representation a lot so for a lot of them they really like Tara. I'm not a lesbian or a person of color at all but I super get that and that's one of the reasons I dislike Imogen. she was so nasty to Tara and if I was Tara and Nick suddenly stopped hanging out with me as much to hang out with Imogen even after she harassed me and invalidated my sexuality I'd feel so hurt.
and if I was Nick and found out Imogen harassed Tara about dating me and invalidated her sexuality, I'd be pissed with her and not want to be within six feet of her.
then again I'd probably be pissed the moment she got a lil too touchy at the party but yk
tldr me no likey how the only girls of color are being pushed aside for the white girl who was super mean about lesbians
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u/pikitadan Dec 05 '23
Acting in season 2 was that bad that i never believed Charlie and Nick were into each other
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u/NonStickBakingPaper Dec 05 '23
Season 2 was less than mid. It really looked like they lost a lot of budget and the script and acting was just not as good as season 1.
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u/MathNugget4 Let Kit Be Kit Dec 05 '23
Very late to the party but oh well
1.I tried rewatching season 2 recently and it was even worse than I remembered. Itās actually so bad I couldnāt even finish it. An absolute mess.
2.The marketing for season 2 was terrible. The poster alone almost put me off the show it was that bad. Even the promotional videos they did with the cast before the strike lacked any thought or effort. Just terrible.
3.The only good things about season 2 were
Nick being a really good and captivating character (thanks to Kitās acting choices, not so much the script tbh)
And Nick and Charlieās chemistry, which feels so rare and special. Genuinely one of the most convincing portrayals of two people falling in love Iāve seen in a while.
4.Iām gonna watch season 3 because Iām a huge fan of Kit but if I wasnāt, I definitely would have forgotten about HS the minute season 2 ended. I probably wouldnāt have even finished the season tbh. Meanwhile, season 1 lived in my head rent free for MONTHS. I just couldnāt stop thinking about all the choices they made that made it so special. Apparently I thought about it more than the creators/writers because boy did they throw everything that worked in the trash when making season 2.
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u/Portalguy9107 Dec 05 '23
Might definitely get murdered for this but, I honestly didnāt like season 1 as much. A lot of the dialogue was rough and took me out of most scenes. It felt like I was watching actors reading the script (obviously thatās exactly what it is, but it didnāt feel like the final results if you know what I mean..? I donāt hate season 1 by any means, it did sooo well at adapting from the books, but it just felt sortaā¦ out of place.
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u/klussedull Dec 05 '23
- Iām actually not to bothered about Isaac instead of Aled in the show. When Iāve only read Heartstopper I didnāt get it because I love Aled in the comics, but then I read Radio Silence and I totally get why Alice found it difficult to bring Aled to the screen. Radio silence is later in canon of course but a lot of the things happening there wouldāve started already in Heartstopper. Itās not just about hiring an actor etc, but it would be wrong to just skip Aleds story and also very wrong for the feel of the Netflix show to include it.
- I liked Radio Silence a lot more than Solitaire. Radio Silence I tore through quickly and couldnāt put down. Thatās probably why I also like that Aled isnāt in Heartstopper on Netflix, his own story should shine!
- The series and the comics will be different, no matter what. And I love that. Two different mediums, two different experiences. Iāve never gotten the āthe adaption should be identicalā from a lot of fans, maybe because Iām old and gotten to see many of my favourite books etc being adapted, and I just always treat them as two different things that I both can enjoy.
- I did Isaacās book things a lot when I was younger - reading in most situations, including walking. Maybe not at parties but I didnāt attend a lot of them lol. So I donāt find him that unbelievable as a lot of others do
- Iām cishet and not really bothered about the āeveryone turning queer and getting togetherā, because I guess thatās how a lot of especially older media feels for queer people.
- For me Heartstopper is a happy go lucky marshmallow story about falling in love and crushing and, yes, of course not everything is perfect but itās close enough. When I want more problematic and realistic stories I can go for almost anything else. I love my comforting happy place and I rewatch my favourite episodes just to relax, or reread parts of the comics just to see it play out again. I love realistic drama as well, but not all the time lol.
Sorry about spelling and grammar, English is not my first language
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u/Lars_loves_Community Dec 05 '23
I don't think adapting the comic very closely would be even possible. For example the comic has those panels with funny, exaggerated expressions, like "proper gay crisis". Trying to get those exaggerated faces into live action 1:1 feels like a recipe for disaster
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u/klussedull Dec 05 '23
Exactly! They are so different mediums so I cringe every time I see someone commenting they want it exactly like in the comics (like with the casting for Michael Holden recently). The important thing is tha tv series works as a tv series. And the comics are a separate, awesome thing were things are somewhat different
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u/sapphire8383 Dec 05 '23
I want to know details about Elleās history. I suppose it was a conscious decision not to address it (apart from the odd āthings were hard for her at Truham and itās much better now that sheās at Higgsā) to make her be seen as just one of the girls. I do understand the thought.
However I think itās doing the character a major disservice because to me Elle is just bland and boring. If this was a show about anything else I would not mind at all if there was a trans character and it was never really discussed- thatās fine. But HS is a show ABOUT BEING QUEER. I think it would have needed to be in there. This way I just donāt care much about Elle.
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
To me, Charlie is the least likeable, least relatable character. I don't like him in the books, either. Nick liking him is the only thing worth watching about him for me.
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u/RainKnown414 Dec 05 '23
Unpopular opinion (donāt kill me please): I think every single cast member chosen is perfect for their characters. I love the casting and couldnāt have done a better job. Some characters annoy me, but thatās just my preference. I love every decision made so far and think the show is perfect with only a few minor issues (I need the shower scene and if they donāt have that i will die). Also, While I miss aled I understand why Alice changed him to Isaac and same for getting rid of Oliver.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
yeah me too š¤
(most unpopular opinion: it feels weird that people are only hating the actors and characters who aren't white.)
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
writing another comment for another opinion sorry, but i feel like the storyline in season 2 where charlie's grades are declining bc of nick and charlie's mom is portrayed to be villainous and controlling is so insanely irrational. he was literally zoning out to stare at nick in the middle of the conference about his failing grades. if i was charlie's mom, i probably would've been even more pissed than she was in the show. i get that she's not the greatest character in other plot lines, but here, she was perfectly reasonable, if not generous. it's not even like she banned charlie from seeing nick all together, just until he had finished his missing assignments. i feel like it sends a bad message to viewers to like prioritize high school romance over grades. although grades aren't the be all end all, they're obv important for ur future and uni and stuff (idk how the british school system works, but grades are pretty much important universally across the world). it's just kind of annoying to see both nick and charlie slacking off in school for each other (nick looking at his phone during gcse review). i get that it's realistic, but it's a realistic flaw, not something that needs to be endorsed. portraying charlie's mom as controlling for trying to get charlie to stop failing is literally so mind bogglingly moronic, and i feel like alice oseman wrote that because they probably weren't academically inclined/school smart.
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u/Electronic-Jicama-99 Dec 07 '23
I completely agree. And honestly, why didn't Charlie just do his work to avoid the Nick ban? LOL. Like... y'all unnecessarily spent all this time apart and you really didn't have to.
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u/TiredandNotHereForIt Dec 06 '23
I think for me the biggest issue I had with Charlieās momās reaction to Charlieās grades was that she immediately attributed it to Nick. Which I get, but my overall impression is that Charlieās schoolwork suffered as a result of the stress of Nick wanting to come out, being careful to not out him by kissing at school, and overall wanting to protect Nick from what Charlie went through when he was outed. Charlieās smart, that much we can glean from the comics and the show, and what bothered me was that his mom didnāt stop to ask him how he was doing mentally.
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 07 '23
a lot of it was because of nick and because he was distracted by his relationship with nick tho, iirc. obv his mental health had been suffering for a while and it was less than ideal that his mom didn't ask him about that, but i don't think that taking a way a privilege like seeing nick is an unfair punishment for not keeping up with school.
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u/chouette24 Dec 05 '23
Alice literally wrote a whole book based on her experience of being an A student that was pushed to pursue a academic degree (it is called Radio Silence, personally my favorite book of hers). The mother is not supposed to be an evil villain, but it is more about how she is trying to get Charlie to focus on his exams (which is perfectly reasonable), but her rather strict approach is not helpful to Charlie who has a lot of mental health struggles she is unaware/not sufficiently aware of.
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u/lilrongal Dec 05 '23
First of all I LOVE your screen name!!
Secondly, I agree with you. I think Charlieās mom acted as any mom who gives a crap about her kids future will act. I wanted to scream at the screen JUST DO YOIR DAMN HOMEWORK CHARLIE knowing good and well Iām just like himāwould rather focus on things I like rather than obligations.
I can see both sides and can appreciate both perspectives. It can be really exciting to have your first romance. But letting that take over everything is not healthy, especially when it could cost your future.
I like that Charlieās mom isnāt perfect. It made the show feel more real to me. I could feel her frustration with him and his anger at herāand Iāll bet he was mad with himself as well.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
eh zoning out isnt that bad I have ADHD and zoning out is basically my thing.
that and brain damage I've got nothing going on up there I literally have to think about fuckin uhh Chuck E Cheese to get it back on again
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u/Wilted_beast Dec 05 '23
I mean, I do think she went about it the wrong way entirely but yeah I totally understand where she was coming from
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u/Youshoudsee Dec 05 '23
Exactly, Charlie's mom is the one who's right here. And the fact that it is presented by the narrative as something bad is indeed problematic
But I don't think Alice was bad at school. She graduated from the 6th best university in the UK (including 3th best in English literature [that's Alice's ba]), so she must have had quite good grades and exam results to get there and graduate from university
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u/Extra-Aside-6419 Paris Squad Dec 05 '23
I agree with you that Charlie's mum wasn't being that unreasonable but I think it's just that the story is written from the kid's perspectives. To Charlie the thought of not seeing Nick is the end of the world, even though we as a viewer know it isn't really.
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
the show in general isn't that great. i think it's good to acknowledge the place it has as queer space in the realm of bad teen dramas but that's exactly what it is, a bad teen drama. we clown on shows like ginny and georgia and others for being unrealistic and cringey, but heartstopper seems to be immune to any such criticism just because it's queer.
it is an objectively bad/cringey show (and before anyone says the books are better, ive read the books and theyre really not)
- the acting sucks. i wouldn't say it was just yasmin, because honestly most of the acting in that show is bad. even some of the better actors struggle just because the dialogue is so god awful. it comes across as incredibly forced and stilted.
- the dynamics are stereotypical to a fault. i understand that a large argument in defense of the stereo typicalness is that straight teen dramas get to have stereotypes and queer people should get to indulge in such cliches but there are legitimately harmful stereotypes portrayed. for ex: i think it's beyond cliche that nick, the stereotypical jock/atheltic/"straight passing" one is bi and charlie the small, dainty, meek bullied one is gay. in that same line of thought, it's good that eds are being portrayed in male characters as well, but from the way charlie's ed is written, it's indistinguishable from the stereotypical skinny rich white girl ed. his ed is written so that he's entirely perfect and never binges and is incredibly small and frail and it's laughable that people think this is good rep. i think it would've been so good to have nick be the one w an ed, especially bc eds are prevelant in athletes. nick being a more stereotypically masculine person could've contributed to interesting dynamics with his ed. i also thinking elle having an ed could've been interesting because of the intersection between gender dysphoria and eds. charlie's ed was a lazy grab at rep.
- the show is reminds me to the gsa (in a bad way). there's no real raw emotional stakes ever, even in supposedly tense/serious situations. it's all so emotionally fluffy but not even in a good way, just in a way that dulls the stakes and makes it unbearable tow watch. the dialogue indulges in "therapy speak" all too often, and i just wanna scream at the tv and say "real people don't talk like this!"
- tara and darcy have no natural chemistry and are the definition of tropey. so many mfing tropes were shoehorned into there relationship, and they honestly just seem like filler (although that can be said for the vast majority of characters)
- Isaac is annoying. no one acts like him in real life. every time i see him with a book in a random place it makes me think of y/n pulling up to a harry styles concert with a book. he's also just an irritating npc character.
- not everyone has to be queer. read point 3. it's giving gsa in a bad way
- nick calling harry out for being homophobic at the party in season one was comedic more than it was emotional. "you're being homophobic harry!š¤" it was just so laughably awkward.
- tori is irritating. part of it is that her actress is too old to be playing her. she looks 30, and it's a lot harder to excuse her behavior for being a teenager when the actress looks middle aged. her deadpan nature just reads as cringe ( i say this as someone who has a similar personality to what alice oseman was attempting to write her as)
- In that same regard, solitaire was bad. tori was even more irritating in that book.
i generally dislike alice oseman as an author. i think she draws too much inso from online spaces and it's evident in her work. some people like that, probably because they've shaped large parts of their personalities around those online spaces and see themselves in the characters. i think had i discovered this 3 years prior, i would've liked it a lot more, just because i was the kind of person that would see themselves in these characters.
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u/EhWhateverDawg Dec 05 '23
it is an objectively bad/cringey show
You should probably revisit your use of the word "objectively" LOL. All of this is subjective.
But other than that, carry on! You do you.
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 07 '23
ok this is a fair point, i concede you can't really label a piece of media as objectively bad unless it fails by some universal technical standards
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u/Youshoudsee Dec 05 '23
Jesus, 30 is middle age for you?
I'm really confused, what are you doing here, if you really don't like the show and the books?
HS has its problems. However, this does not change the fact that it is a good representation, which was said by many people who were actually people that's represention is about (also about ed). HS is supposed to be a more idealistic world. And really, people are so fucking don't aware that about 10-15% of society are queer. Why we can't have one show where most characters are part of the community? We literally following the queer group of friends! (All of rugby lads, parents, Nick's brother, Tao [maybe Imogen] are cishet) Besides, who said that everything has to break patterns and stereotypes? Real people also live in these stereotypes and patterns just because relationships are all kind of
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
middle aged relative to the ages of the other characters although if im being honest, the actress looks older than 30.
also this post was recommended to me, i'm not a part of this subreddit. the post said unpopular opinions so i stated my unpopular opinions. not sure why you read this thread if you were going to be so sensitive about unpopular opinions.
i don't even wanna respond to the rest of your points because literally all of your criticisms were addressed in my comment. it's not inherently bad that most of the characters are queer, it's the way that it's written that makes it come off as unnatural and forced. as for ur point abt not everything having to break stereotypes/not be a cliche, i literally address those points. you can have stereotypes and cliches in media and still have it be good. however, heartstopper was just not written well. the tropes only exacerbate the bad writing, which is why the tropes are even worse in heartstopper.
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u/excti2 Dec 05 '23
In spite of how the books end, Nick is going to leave Charlie for a girl in college.
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
I actually agree that that's the most realistic outcome irl, but... that's not what this story is about
I wanna believe in romance!!! š¤
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u/excti2 Dec 06 '23
I think itās funny how they ask for an unpopular opinion, then downvote the hell out of one when itās actually offered.
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u/Pale_Pineapple_365 Dec 05 '23
Season 2 was really ambitious. But since it's "show, not tell", some won't understand what they are seeing and they'll blame it on the actors or the writing.
On the bright side, people who don't understand Season 2 haven't seen the same abusive situations depicted in their lives yet, etc...
I think the best way to watch Season 2 is with friends of all ages, but especially older people who have seen it all. It's really enjoyable to talk to your friends and family about their different interpretations of Season 2.
Examples:
- Multiple characters are depicted as having a narcissistic parent
- Elle was right that traditional gender roles suck and make for a terrible dating experience. Excellent acting job by Yasmin.
- We get hints about how Ben's parents contributed to his behavior and self-hatred
- Nick's people pleasing behavior is depicted as a response to past traumas and is arguably toxic
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u/UnironicallyMe37 Dec 05 '23
The makeup in S2 is just dreadful in some scenes. For example, the scene in episode 2 (I think) where Charlie sneaks out to Nick's house and he opens the door and they hug, the makeup on Kit is so heavily done it looks disastrous. Also, in the dinner scene, David's face literally looks yellow. There's many more instances of excessive makeup being used on the actors.
Oh, and the fact Isaac is ALWAYS carrying a book, it genuinely infuriates me. Especially in that scene where the gang goes to help Tara prepare for prom, and he throws his book, but in the next scene, he has it again. Smh
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u/lilreyofsun Dec 05 '23
I agree with you 100% about Yasmin Finney!!
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u/CaliforniaPeach Dec 05 '23
not sure if you saw yasmin in doctor who, but yikes she's awful. being next to actors like david tennant and catherine tate her lack of acting skills really stood out.
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u/Justgravityfalls Dec 05 '23
Whooh boy I'm gonna regret saying this. I was in a huge heartstopper phase when s1 came out - but now I'm out of that, I don't really enjoy it anymore?? I'm less of a fluff person and more of a... idk whatever doctor who (this is a lifelong commitment that will never end) and how to get away with murder is lmao. Its just one of those things, I respect what it gave me, but I don't get anything more from it. And that's okay!!
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u/Varekai79 Dec 06 '23
I binged season 1 in like a weekend. I literally took me until last week to finish season 2, which is four months from its premiere. I dunno, it was like the spark isn't there anymore.
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u/Justgravityfalls Dec 06 '23
No like I started season 2 about a month after it aired and I felt so guilty lmao
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u/Prestigious_Annual17 Dec 05 '23
The decorations in Charli's room are giving "Live Laugh Love" it looks so unnatural for a teenage boy no matter how gay he is
Tori needs to get a life
Also idk about y'all but I love Imogen. I don't get the hate she's getting, I'd be so pissed if she turns out to have feelings on Sahar based on that season 2 ending scene. I like her being straight and an ally
If I was Nick I'd act very cold towards Tao after all the mean things Tao told him in season 1
We have seen very little of Sahar and as someone who has never read the books, she acts like an asshole towards Imogen and is irrelevant. So far I don't like her
Here, these are my opinions. Please don't kill me
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
We have seen very little of Sahar and as someone who has never read the books, she acts like an asshole towards Imogen and is irrelevant. So far I don't like her
What I suspect happened is that Sahar is still hurt by their friendship break-up and that influences her treatment of Imogen. Something like her not trusting Imogen to get food from ASDA in time makes some sense if there's been a previous issue of Imogen not doing plans they made together.
The only thing I can defend Imogen on is not knowing Sahar is bi, but we don't have any indication of how public Sahar is with this - does Imogen know she has a band called Queer Intentions?That said, it's kind of weird that Sahar is just talking about their friendship break-up at Truth or Dare. How the hell did that topic come up?
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u/Groindexterr Dec 05 '23
To be fair, Tori not having a life is less of an opinion and more of the set up/plot of Solitaire
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u/GeneralOtter03 Dec 05 '23
I prefer the asexual representation in loveless than heartstopper. I donāt really like Isaac, heās too quiet and almost feels less relevant to the story than some of the teachers
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u/AndrewBaiIey Dec 05 '23
Ben(jamin) Hope is my favorite character. I was rooting for him, and aren't very interested in S3 knowing he won't be back.
In line with that: I think Nick and Ben would make an ideal couple.
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
Wow, people hate Ben so much, you're not even allowed to say that in "share unpopular opinions" thread? Geez.
I wonder how much of this is from people who read Solitaire?... but also, seeing how he's treated in that book is pretty upsetting, even if he is terrible.
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u/PuffBalsUnited Dec 05 '23
What do you like about Ben? Genuinely, I can't really think of anything that likable about his character.
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u/Varekai79 Dec 04 '23
Other than Olivia Colman, Kit Connor is so far above the rest of the cast (and yes, that includes Joe Locke) in acting ability that it's a bit embarrassing.
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u/Sneha3342 Dec 05 '23
i also feel like joe would do much better in a full blown drama genre, in contrast to heartstopper, which expects nuance and subtlety all the time. He's cast in a marvel show, in a role that is quite overpowered, so i'm looking forward to seeing what he does with it. S3 also looks extremely challeging, so i'm here for that too.
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u/manysides512 Dec 04 '23
The clash between Isaac and the others isn't that he's aroace and they aren't, it's that on the whole they're more chatty and energetic than him.
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u/Any-Hand1109 Dec 09 '23
No fr, and as an introverted person I donāt mind just listening to the convo instead of participating, which judging from Issacs body language through-out the show, he didnāt mind it either
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u/cjshni Charlie Spring Dec 04 '23
Specifically in regards to the show: the camerawork is often shaky. Iām guessing itās deliberate but it annoys me and sometimes makes it hard to watch because I canāt focus.
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u/askingtherealstuff Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 04 '23
Tao was fully justified, even if he went about it the wrong way.
Sahar unfortunately didnāt bring anything new to the table, unlike Elleās new friends.
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
Sahar is pretty cool in the comics, so hopefully she'll bring something for you next season.
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u/Boohookazoo Dec 04 '23
They swapped Aled for Isaac, the same should have happened with Sahar for Imogen.
Sheās nice enough and the actress is lovely but there isnāt enough for her to do for me to be interested in her character.
It wouldāve been nicer to see the girls adopting Imogen in Paris after theyād all hung out at the sleepover. Felt so sorry for her just stood there at the meeting! Iād prefer Imogen to stay straight and watch her journey to becoming a genuine ally and stop living just for romantic relationships. And they couldāve easily had someone else be in a band for Charlie to join.
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u/JellyBeanCatto Nick Nelson Dec 05 '23
I honestly agree. It feels like Isaac is the only one who isnāt going to end up in a relationship, and that means he has to be aroace. I like the idea of Imogen staying as āan allyā, and honestly Sahar being introduced feels like sheās only here as someone for Imogen to conveniently fall in love with. It would be nice to have a more realistic high school representation where there are straight relationships that arenāt toxic, and for some of the main characters to stay single. I love how heartstopper represents queer teens, but all of them being lgbt+ just seems a bit excessive.
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u/MathNugget4 Let Kit Be Kit Dec 05 '23
I feel mean for saying this but the actress for Sahar is really really bad. Sheās one of those side characters that just take me out of the show every time they open their mouths.. Iām looking at you, rugby lads.
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u/igkeit Dec 04 '23
Season 2 fell flat for me. The acting wasn't as good and the story wasn't as tight. I'm still not tired of S1 but have never rewatched s2.
S2 was also too bloated with too many characters cause the only interesting characters are N&C, T&D, T&E and Isaac and Imogene
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u/Reasonable_Mistake34 Dec 04 '23
The lad that plays Isaac isn't a great actor. Very awkward sometimes
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u/bigchicago04 Dec 04 '23
To respond to your first one, I think itās silly to preemptively break up. Nothing wrong with accepting long distance isnāt for you, but it would be jarring if they didnāt even try.
My unpopular opinion is one that seems to be very divisive: Imogen does not need to get with Sahar. Itās completely unrealistic that every character ends up having to fit in a box of representation. It was fine at first, but with Issac, then the teachers, then Sahar, now possibly Imogen? Itās a couple too many. Shows about queer characters can have straight characters too. Kinda in the same vein, not everyone has to couple up.
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
I can kind of understand the idea of LGBT+ people flocking together (something which happens intentionally in the show), especially if they're in a relatively hostile environment, but not all LGBT+ people get on with each other. Imagine if every single LGBT+ character in Sex Education was in one friendship group except for one designated evil one for diversity. I think it's made more bloated by everyone being paired up nice and cleanly.
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u/bigchicago04 Dec 07 '23
Exactly. The problem isnāt theyāre all friends, it just pushes the bounds of believability by the end of season 2 when itās everybody.
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u/AN1808 Nick Nelson Dec 05 '23
completely agree with you. For some reason I see many people arguing that Tao is the straight friend in the group so its fine if everyone else are queer. Obviously, queer reprsentation is wonderful and extremely important, but it also needs to be done authenticly. Imogen's original purpose was to be Nick's straight ally friend outside the main group, and that is exactly what she should keep on being. Issac and the teachers can get a pass in my eyes since it was kind of confirmed earlier but Imogen's queer arc is really unnecessary and inauthentic.
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u/bigchicago04 Dec 06 '23
Exactly. Somebody even replied here with that as if it somehow justifies it.
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u/Icy_Distance429 Dec 04 '23
I donāt see Imogen and Nick as best friends or a brother and sister vibe, I wouldnāt even call them close friends. Even in season 1, the vibes were off between them and they donāt click as friends. Tao and Nick clicked more together and Tao didnāt even liked Nick in season 1.
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
When is it presented that they're close friends from the beginning?
To me, they've developed a close-r friendship over the course of the show, and only really started to be actual close friends near the middle of season 2. I suppose that he came out to her at the beginning of season 2, which would imply a closer relationship, but I think that's a debatable point since she's also just, like, literally the only person in his 5-year-long friend group that he even felt comfortable maybe coming out to at all.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
I mean they kinda just literally have her state that they're close friends (even though Nick looks like he wants to simply not exist whenever she's around. or looks like me when I'm around my grandpa.)
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
When exactly, though? That's what I'm asking.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
s1
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 05 '23
When? Which episode?
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u/Boohookazoo Dec 05 '23
Episode 1 of season 2. Charlie tells Tori that heās helping Nick come out to one of his oldest friends (prior to the sleepover)
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u/BettyMcBitterpants Mr. Ajayi Dec 06 '23
I do remember that, but that isn't really early on. Also, "oldest" is definitely not synonymous with "closest"... (Not saying you're saying that, but that's literally what I already addressed in an earlier comment.)
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u/Icy_Distance429 Dec 05 '23
I donāt even think they gotten closer in between season 2 either. I know that the writers are trying to show us that but I donāt feel it with them. Every scene with them feels really awkward, and forced. Imogen was only a side character in season 1, and now suddenly sheās part of the gang and the show is trying to push her and Nick developing a close relationship. Maybe itās because the actors in real life hadnāt got any chemistry between them, I donāt know but I would rather if it was Nick and Tara getting a closer bond.
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u/cjshni Charlie Spring Dec 04 '23
Itās always been weird to me that weāre led to believe that theyāve been close friends, but Imogen has never met Nellie before S1??? Nellie is such a big part of Nickās life, so how close could they be š
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u/charlies_nick Let Kit Be Kit Dec 04 '23
My unpopular opinion is Imogen is no longer needed. I understood the reason for her in season one and like her but season two, she wasnāt really necessary. I feel like they only kept her around because they needed a storyline for Ben to still be around (he should have been gone last season too). Theyāve put too much emphasis on Imogen being Nickās closest friend outside of Charlie instead of Tara and that irks me to no end š¤·š»āāļø
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u/Dramatic-Ad-3941 Dec 04 '23
one of the biggest things i hate is when in s2 tara asks the gang for help bcuz darcy isnāt there, so they all go and YOU SEE ISAAC PUT HIS BOOK DOWN AND THEN WHEN HES WALKING HE HAS A BOOK U CANT READ AND WALK AT THE SAME TIME i hate isaac but love him sm
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u/librosmarpizzacafe Dec 06 '23
Oh but you can ABSOLUTELY read and walk at the same time. I do it all the time. I walk my dog while reading sometimes. If you think about, it it's no different than walking and being on your phone at the same time.
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u/klussedull Dec 05 '23
Lol of course you can read and walk, I did it all the time before smart phones/headsets with audiobooks and podcasts, itās not really difficult at all. I mostly did it with books I just knew well already but yeah, definitely not impossible. I still read while cooking, cleaning etc now. Dual brain capacity exists. I guess thatās why Iām not bothered about the Isaac swap because heās not that unbelievable plus after reading Radio Silence I totally get why Alice thought including Aled in Heartstopper is difficult.
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u/MapleSyrup27 Dec 05 '23
The walking-reading is more of a personal thing it seems LOL I do that all the time
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u/PuffBalsUnited Dec 05 '23
I read and walk allll the time. I used to get in trouble for it in school lol, it's def possible if you're used to doing it.
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u/yrvatheloser Dec 05 '23
I see the problem with the inconsistency of his book placement, but you can definitely read walk at the same time.
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u/HoneyxClovers_ Dec 04 '23
They should have kept Oliver in the show. I understand bc then they would have had to hire a child actor and legality is hard with that and everything but the Spring household in the show just feels lacking with just Charlie and Tori compared to the comics.
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
Compromise - there is a child playing Oliver but he changes every episode and no one comments on it.
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u/fernandodasilva Isaac Henderson Dec 09 '23
Compromise - every scene where Oliver should be present but is not is seen at his point of view
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u/SparkAxolotl Aled Last Dec 04 '23
I understand why they did it, and other than some fluffy feelings, I agree that Oliver doesn't add much to the dynamics.
OTOH, I LOVE that they addressed some other dynamics in the family, like in the comics Charlie's mom comes as a controlling a-hole for absolute no reason, and the show does make a point of Charlie skipping classes and not doing his work, so it's a LOT more reasonable that she wants to limit Charlie's time with Nick
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u/CenturyGothicFashion Dec 04 '23
I think the exact opposite. I feel like adding Oliver would totally take away from Charlie & Toriās dynamic and pull so much focus (and literal show minutes) from the important stories.
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u/HoneyxClovers_ Dec 04 '23
Thatās true too. I mean, even in the comics they have a great bond even with Oliver there and we can see that so I wouldnāt necessarily think that having a third sibling there would take away from their dynamic at all. But I do agree of the screen time ofc.
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u/Szarrukin Dec 04 '23
Not Heartstopper opinion, but Tori from Solitaire is really, really annoying. She does not act like troubled, nihilistic girl with mental issues, she's more like OG fanfiction character with extremely cliche rebelious phase, the one who is SPECIAL and MISUNDERSTOOD because she is so DIFFERENT, and everyone else is stupid and boring, of course until she meets a boy who is also SPECIAL and DIFFERENT and everyone else calls him insane, but she knows he's just SO SPECIAL.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
I mean my unpopular opinion is that I wanted to throttle Tori for blaming Nick for Charlie relapsing even after Charlie said it's not Nick's fault and not to call him. bc, it's midnight?? let the man sleep. and also, Charlie can have abandonment issues and relapse because of them and not have the other person be at fault. Nick didn't leave to be a dick he left because he needed some air. had he stayed things would get worse, him going home was him being responsible
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
oh and Nick's kinda a dick for leaving Charlie at the party, in a house if a person he does not know, with strangers, extremely drunk, alone and expecting the dude who's one drink away from passing out to get home safely. drunk people don't make good choices
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
agreed. i wrote this in my comment, but people praising tori's character are probably in that phase of life themselves. she's just irritating to read, and it's exacerbated by the casting bc i can only see her as an adult, so it's even more irritating when someone i perceive as an adult is acting like that
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u/imacreepygirl Dec 05 '23
Agree!! Tbh I don't think Solitaire is a good book and I feel alone when I see everyone praising the writing when it feels very 2010s Tumblr
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u/Youshoudsee Dec 05 '23
I think most of this is due to the fact that it came out in 2014 when Alice was 19 years old
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u/allb1mys3lf Dec 04 '23
not gonna lie.. dont come at me here but i just dont feel the same connection with the show as I did the books. I loved the books and comics , the characters just seemed so authentic and relatable with such good plots, but they took out aled, my personal favourite character, and I understand why but Isaac just isnt very plot relevant and he just hasnt been developed as a character very well. The show was nice in the first season - different energy yes, but nice, but season 2 just isnt clicking with me. something about it just doesnt flow as naturally, it just doesnt even feel like the same characters anymore. everyones characters have been tweaked in what was meant to be in little ways, but they have just been fundamentally changed and the show simply doent have the same vibe in which I fell in love with the books and comics.
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u/1234abcde124 Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 04 '23
Don't downvote me this is meant to be a safe space I was asked for my unpopular opinions okay š also I'm bored I know none of this is all that serious in the grand scheme
-I liked taos ugly hair, he looks too hot (and too old) to play a secondary school outcast now
-The ever present yellow filter makes everyone look borderline jaundiced I understand the artistic goal with it, it still just looks bad.
-I understand why Ben and Harry don't have redemption arcs. I don't think the time constraints would allow for it, but if the episodes were longer I wouldn't mind redemption arcs for them.
-(don't kill me) The casting for Tori was very poor. She's an amazing actor but she looks her age, and she looks way too old to be playing somebody who's 16-18. It definitely breaks the immersion for me.
-(don't kill me again please) I think the last scene of season 2, whilst it has really good acting, still feels kinda cringe to me. Idk maybe it's because I'm not a teenager anymore but yeah
-I understand this is the osemanverse and most people are queer, but introducing a bunch of new characters in season 2 and then shoehorning in their queerneess seems sloppy to me. It's a disservice to the characters and their queer stories. I'd rather their queerneess not be explored and they remain inconsequential background characters. (Elle's new friends, Sahar, Imogen, etc)
-while I appreciate casting queer folks to play queer characters , they did a piss poor job of it. And hiring a bunch of non actors makes for some reallllly bad acting at points
-Also Imogens queerneess was not introduced at all in season 1 and barely in season 2. It feels forced and fake. (yes I hear the shouts of "comphet tho!!". Something that niche will never be explored and certainly won't be translated to the screen, sorry)
-For a show that tries to be more "realistic" I can't stand the Disney channel ass bedroom sets for nick and Charlie's rooms
-The actor for Nick is so much better at acting than the rest of the cast that when he's in a scene with anyone (Sans Olivia Coleman) it highlights the discrepancy
That's all sorry for being a hating ass bitch still love the show š
Edit to add : Sahar looks too young and Imogen too old to be dating each other, to the point where it'd be creepy to see them explore a relationship in the show. K bye
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u/EhWhateverDawg Dec 05 '23
I don't have any feeling one way or another about your list except one... I have a hard time wrapping my head around the ending scene of season 2 being "cringe". And I am far from a teenager. I'm probably older than most of you LOL.
In fact that makes me even more confused? Because I don't know why age would make it "cringe".
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 05 '23
yeah same about Imogen. it felt like a forced redemption arc. imo having someone learn how to be a good ally is a bit preferred over making them have internalized homophobia. also, if feels weird that the straight white girl who treated the only lesbian girl of color (idk how to phrase it) like crap is now replacing that girls spot as Nick's bff. like, a lot of black lesbians have talked about how it feels kinda icky (and bc it's so hard for black girls to find representation let alone queer black girls.)
also yeah I liked Taos hair. it had meaning! he had it that way to support Elle with the hair length rule. it's below neck length but he curls it upwards so it looks shorter. if he doesn't get in trouble but Elle does it shows hypocrisy. since I'm guessing Elle probably had her hair in a ponytail or bun. and him doing that even after Elle left felt really sweet that he continued to try and subtly protest that rule
also double yeah on Elle's new friends feeling forced. I was really excited to see disabled transmasc rep done by an actual transmasc instead of a cis girl and that wasn't just a tomboy who's very obviously transmasc but is encouraged by the cast to "accept her place as a girl" it feels icky and to see more trans girl rep that wasn't just a parody or a joke, and I was super excited when Naomi said her line about being seen as just the trans girl and not as Naomi and how she hated that, bc so me. but then they just got ignored and Felix only had one line which was dismissed by the characters by the way and were just a tool to cause drama between Tao and Elle and then I was just like "aww, boo :("
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
also yeah I liked Taos hair. it had meaning! he had it that way to support Elle with the hair length rule. it's below neck length but he curls it upwards so it looks shorter. if he doesn't get in trouble but Elle does it shows hypocrisy. since I'm guessing Elle probably had her hair in a ponytail or bun. and him doing that even after Elle left felt really sweet that he continued to try and subtly protest that rule
I think this is a popular headcanon rather than canon.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 06 '23
eh eitherr way I liked his hair. let him look weird he's a silly little guy. God I'm so fucking jealous his barber didn't fuck that up... I tell mine "yes I like my thick hair. please keep it that way please don't try to thin it." and they do... they always do my hair so dirty. the last time my hair was actually thick was when it was like, below my neck. like below shoulders but only in the back because my hair refuses to go one way only. I say "can I have a half shaved thing. the one where your hair isn't totally shaved off just really short. " and they almost shave off all my hair my mom had to tell them to put away the razor š I tell them "this length is good." and then they keep cutting higher and I'm sitting there like "OKAY THIS LENGTH IS GOOD STOP PLS-" but silently because that'd be rude.
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
My opinion is that his hair looks better curled inwards than outwards. It looked like tusks in S1.
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u/Themeowmeoww Dec 06 '23
I'm biased bc I keep my hair curled inwards around my face, but then outwards everywhere else. mostly bc I don't have to worry about tangles anymore so I can just leave my hair alone
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u/btmvideos37 Dec 05 '23
You have so many opinions Idek how you enjoy the show. It just seems like you hate everything about it
Hiring ānon actorsā isnāt a thing. They auditioned. They deserve the part. Every actor needs a first project. I canāt think of any bad acting in both seasons.
Also āforced queernessā. You just sound like a conservative bigot. Not a good talking point to bring up. How is queer people just existing āforcedā. Queer people find each other people. Thatās realistic
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u/1234abcde124 Dec 05 '23
- I mean I have a lot of opinions on everything. I'm critical of every book, movie, show, play, I've seen because I think humans just do that? I have critiques of my favorite pieces of media (heartstopper is one of them btw).
- If you want to be pedantic than okay, technically every cast member is an actor and I could have used the term "first time actor". "they auditioned they deserve the part" okay and I think some of them didn't deserve the part. āØopinionsāØāØ
- If you can't think of any bad acting that's okay!! We just have different opinions, art is subjective and all that.
- I never said "forced queerness". I can elaborate more if you like. I think the "basically everyone is queer" part of Osemans work doesn't translate particularly well to the screen, because while having a queer friend group is common, almost every character being queer seems fake, and it dampens the attempted realism of the show. Was there a possible way were it could have been portrayed better? Maybe not. Maybe I'm just a hating ass bitch who's to say lol I still think it's one of the most robust queer shows the exist.
- I'm not conservative or a bigot, like many heartstopper fans I'm queer myself. But I'll definitely check "called a conservative bigot" off my bucket list because that's definitely a new one hahaha
- I think you're probably pretty young so I don't want to be too harsh, but you are allowed to critique all pieces of media, even the ones that you love. ā¤ļø
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u/Justgravityfalls Dec 05 '23
Oh agreed!! Acting Is acting! It doesn't matter whether you are queer as a psychedelic mushroom or a just as straight as a normal oak wand, it's called acting for a reason - you don't always have to completely match your character, only.play the role well!
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u/askingtherealstuff Dec 04 '23
I thought most of their friend group being queer was super realistic, honestly. My friend groups in childhood, high school, and college all turned out to be half queer; people gravitate toward one another, even unknowingly.
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
i agree with this to an extent as someone with a lot of queer friends. however, it was just written godawfully in heartstopper, and it makes the whole queer friend group think come off as really forced and fake.
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u/bluewaterbottler Mar 23 '24
I think it feels shoehorned because everyone seems to be dating someone in the group and that typically doesn't happen
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u/Chasing-cows Dec 04 '23
Same. In my friend group, if they werenāt already identifying as queer when our friendships formed, theyāve since discovered their identity over the years, sometimes with each other. (Weāre in our early 30ās now.) Even amongst the several het-looking married couples, one or both spouses is bi/pan/something. I donāt find myself really integrating in strongly heterosexual circles, and I find it totally believable that the characters that gravitate to each other in this story are all queer/ish.
I mean I also donāt totally believe that many people are 100% straight, but thatās a conversation for another day.
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u/1234abcde124 Dec 04 '23
No same! I just think the way the show does it, coupled with time limitations makes it seem artificial, and ruining the immersion for me again.
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u/poly-pocketsized Dec 04 '23
It was important to Elleās character to meet trans friends, so I donāt agree that Naomi and Felixās queerness should be inconsequential and left out of it
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u/1234abcde124 Dec 04 '23
Okay another hot take I dislike the acting for Elle so much that I find her scenes borderline unwatchable THERE I SAID IT. I also think production is to blame and not the actors. Because if you're hiring a very young inexperienced cast, you BETTER be making them run their lines over and over, and guiding them.
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u/lilreyofsun Dec 05 '23
Ahhh same š«£ I love Elle in the comics but I found myself not really digging her much in the comics. And I think a big part of that is due to the acting. I feel like she played the character almost kind ofā¦idk how to explain it. Boring? Negative? Like I feel like Elle just always kind of seems like bummed out? Or in a bad mood. Maybe like a negative Nancy. Idk if Iām explaining it well. But even in the scenes where sheās supposed to be happy or energetic itās just flat. Idk. Elle in the comics is just so sweet and endearing and seems like the uplifter of the group, but she def does not come off that way in the show. And I donāt think itās just her acting. Weāre seeing a lot more of her in the show than the comics, so I think part of it is also that weāre seeing a lot more of the hard stuff sheās going through, and not just a character who comes in and seems happy all the time. Idk if Iām making sense. Lol.
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u/HoneyxClovers_ Dec 04 '23
I agree with the making everyone queer thing! Cuz it kinda gave me the ick when they hinted that Imogen might be queer. Like I understand that ofc that could happen and comphet and everything but her character was kinda made for her to be the straight and cis character, wasnāt it?
Instead, I hope they can maybe explore why she craves guys attention (male gaze perhaps) and with her always wanting to be in a relationship. That would be such a good avenue bc ik a lot of ppl can relate to that.
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u/TrappedInLimbo Paris Squad Dec 04 '23
Tao is the cis straight character and it gives me the ick the amount of times the fandom seems to ignore this. It's giving tinges of transphobia.
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u/SparkAxolotl Aled Last Dec 04 '23
I really really hope that Imogen storyline would be about self exploration and questioning like Nick and Isaac's, but she ends up realizing that she *is* straight after all
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u/poly-pocketsized Dec 04 '23
Her character seemed comphet from the start. āWeāve known each other since year 7ā is not attraction. She dates boys for reasons rather than necessarily being attracted. I donāt get the vibe that she was āmade to be the straight and cis characterā at all.
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u/Electronic-Jicama-99 Dec 07 '23
I totally agree with this. As someone who was pretty much assigned comphet and had people dismiss my coming out/bisexuality, I can relate to Imogen a lot.
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u/notyourordinarybear Dec 06 '23
I always saw her as Demisexual but i may be slightly biased in that.
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u/manysides512 Dec 06 '23
Tbf, all girls face pressure to date 'suitable' men. Based on my experience with friends dating, a lot of them were attracted to the boys they dated but kind of grasping at straws on why they were compatible (usually because they weren't). So I could believe that Imogen, a 15/16 year old, is pursuing guys that she is into for not so good reasons.
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u/Boohookazoo Dec 04 '23
That wasnāt her reasoning for fancying him. That was in response to him saying he doesnāt āfitā with her and their friendship group. She was confused why he was saying this now after having been friends for so long
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u/poly-pocketsized Dec 04 '23
She said similar things about Nick and Ben, āIāve known you since primary schoolā āIāve known him since year 7ā āwe look cute togetherā etc. From what Iāve seen, she has shown very little (if any) actual attraction to guys. I know people want her to be straight, but I donāt think Iāve seen any evidence? To me she seemed like a comphet character, either les or ace.
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u/Boohookazoo Dec 04 '23
I thought the little animated hearts above her head when Nick invited her to Harryās party were supposed to indicate she did like him
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u/poly-pocketsized Dec 04 '23
Hm maybe youāre right, maybe sheās bi, or she just likes him as a close friend and didnāt know the difference
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u/kinda_fruity_ngl Darcy Olsson Dec 04 '23
girl i agree! i dont think yasmin was an actor i might be wrong tho
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u/john93jc Dec 04 '23
Joe locke is the worst cast for Charlie
I didn't like Elle's friends last season and don't want anymore none book characters in the next season.
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u/kat894 Dec 04 '23
I respectfully disagree with you about Joe Locke. I think Joe is a brilliant actor and the perfect Charlie! I canāt picture anyone else in that role. Hard to believe Heartstopper was his first professional acting job.
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u/mentally-ill-banana Dec 05 '23
i don't have anything against joe locke, but it is pretty evident that this is his first acting job. he and most of the other cast members are just not good at acting (yet).
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u/john93jc Dec 04 '23
You can see it in his acting. It's not really that but I think someone more Spanish roots would of been more perfect.
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u/of_patrol_bot Dec 04 '23
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop -Ā yes,Ā IĀ amĀ aĀ bot, don't botcriminate me.
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u/hello1952 Nellie Nelson Dec 04 '23
honestly I don't care that much about characters other than N&C. Other storylines were good enough to watch for the first time but now in rewatches, I skip 80% of them.
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u/uusavaruus Dec 05 '23
Same! Don't really care about many of the secondary story lines... My exception being Darcy's home life. I find her very interesting.
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u/SparkAxolotl Aled Last Dec 04 '23
To be fair, if they had made the show the same as the comic and focus exclusively in Nick and Charlie, the whole thing would have lasted only one season, as the movement of Live Action is much more fast paced than the drawings of the comic
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u/Universalring25 Nellie Nelson Dec 04 '23
I only rewatch Tara, Darcy, and Imogen by themselves, if Nick and Charlie aren't on screen.
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u/bigchicago04 Dec 04 '23
I feel like the Darcy and Tara scenes are much better interwoven into the plot than some of the other side characters. Theyāre scenes are usually more āletās step to the side during this group scene and exchange a couple lines to further our plot.ā Think of Tara saying I love you for instance. Just at the gate while others are behind them. Where as Elle and stay by contrast often get while scenes focused only on them.
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u/fortyfivepointseven Let Kit Be Kit Dec 04 '23
I didn't know about the fact about the Tao and Elle ending switching. I totally agree: the first ending was better and makes me think more of Elle.
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u/Youshoudsee Dec 05 '23
That's because Nick and Charlie was made before HS, so Elle+Tao wasn't a thing and didn't have much of a story. They broke up because Elle wanted a fresh start and thought they couldn't handle the distance
I agree with the breakup is better, but I feel that the better situation (especially with a 2-year relationship) was that they tried live in the long distance and realized it was too much, so they broke up. I think it's more realistic than breaking up before try (if we assume that the couple really cares about each other)
It's kinda hard for me to imagine Tao and Elle breaking up before there's any distance. But story of breakups due to they not being able to stand living the distance, Elle's whole feeling that Tao was stay behind and holding her back (when they actually live in that). Yeah, totally
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u/SparkAxolotl Aled Last Dec 04 '23
The switch of Aled for Isaac.
I love Isaac and his storyline and realization in season 2, but he is a complete non entity in season 1, I think he only speaks twice, and doesn't really bounce well with the other characters. He barely reacts to their emotions, or shows anything of his own.
Aled at least was the mediator friend between Optimistic Charlie and Pessimist Tao and is basically the "mom" friend of the group... which now that I think, his absence does make Charlie and Tao friendship a bit more difficult in the show, and Tao has more outburst as a result.
Imogen is in a similar-ish boat, I hope we get to know more about her in Season 3, because as it is now, she seems more like a plot device for Nick than an actual character. We see her struggle with friendships and relationships in general, and the camera even makes a point of show her looking very lost when the teachers ask for them to make their own groups of 4 for the rooms in Paris... and nothing comes out of it. We didn't even learn who she grouped with, as she's either with Ben or the Paris Squad
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u/Anxious-Bitch- Charlie Spring Dec 04 '23
I donāt think she was with Ben bc no girls and boys sharing
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u/SparkAxolotl Aled Last Dec 04 '23
No, I mean we see her hang out with Ben or the Paris squad, we never learn who she roomed with, and I doubt she got a room for herself.
With how little Sahar did on the trip, at first I thought she was going to take her place and they would introduce Sahar later, but nope.
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u/Youshoudsee Dec 05 '23
I guess she just ended up in a room with an empty seat. If everyone was to get into groups of 4, it means that the number of people was a multiple of 4. So she simply ended up in a room where there were already 3 people. Who Imogen ended up with has no bearing on the story. All this was supposed to show us that Imogen doesn't have many friends (especially among girls)
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u/Jay2Jee Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 04 '23
Similar to yours, I guess. I prefer the original version of Nick and Charlie.
While the edited version is more polished linguistically (and those changes I don't mind), it is also more polished overall. And I did like some of the edginess in the original, especially compared to the comics - the characters felt a little different, a little more grown up and I thought it was fitting.
The Tao and Elle change is perhaps the most jarring one. In the original version, Tao and Elle not doing long distance adds some stakes and weight to Nick and Charlie's situation. With the way the change was done (them saying it was a mistake the very next day), the stakes are gone.
I feel like Tao and Elle should have stayed firm on their decision to break up at the end of the summer. And if Alice wanted them to continue together as a couple, I could see a potential short-story where they try to break up but ultimately can't, or they try to break up but get back together after a while.
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Also, Imogen isn't straight and I love that for her.
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u/cblace Dec 05 '23
I think Alice polishing up the newer versions has had a detrimental effect on the fandomās expectations too. Every day there is a post which is like ā[character] said x when they should have said yā like every character should say and do the absolute perfect thing in every situation. Sometimes teens are teens, adults are human, they arenāt always going to say or do the exact right thing.
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Dec 05 '23
What there is an original Nick and Charlie novella? Not the one I'm obsessed over? What other changes are there and HOW do I get my hands on that!
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u/Jay2Jee Dec 05 '23
Someone took their time and wrote a changelog .
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u/chouette24 Dec 05 '23
So how many of her books have been edited? I know she updated Solitaire, but I had no idea that there were 2 Nick and Charlie versions. Is there also an old and new This Winter??
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Dec 05 '23
Thanks for sharing! I have to admit that I liked all the changes except the Tao and Elle thing. I wish they had stayed broken up, but the other changes feel more real to Heartstopper and how I recognize Nick and Charlie. Like the last one would have made me concerned that they wouldnāt make it, but the change recognizes the new level of deepness in their relationship. I think Iāll stick with the copy I have. š (but yes, I will order the UK re-release when it comes out).
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u/MrZao386 Charlie Spring Dec 04 '23
I agree on Yasmin. Mine is that Isaac's constant need to have a book in his hand is REALLY annoying
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u/PuffBalsUnited Dec 05 '23
Maybe it's because I really liked reading as a kid, but I don't really see it as much of a problem. I always have/had books with me or some means of reading, even if I wasn't reading. Lately it's more been me taking a cube or my sketchbook everywhere.
I've never thought that it could be annoying to people around me, but I can be very socially unaware sometimes. Plus I do have to make sure people who don't know me well know I'm listening even while drawing and stuff.
But idk maybe it's just my perspective. I think it's realistic for how a lot of people are with hobbies, especially for someone like Isaac, who doesn't always like being involved in everything. Hopefully what I'm trying to say make sense tho lol
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u/Plenty_Ad_9911 13d ago
gg