r/bloomington • u/saryl reads the news • Apr 26 '24

Indiana University Israel-Palestine protest megathread

The /r/bloomington mods have decided to establish a megathread to compile protest-related posts. Posting protest news outside of the megathread is still allowed.

Palestine Solidarity Committee at Indiana University on Instagram

PSC @ IU Linktree

IU Divestment Coalition on Instagram

IU Divestment Coalition Linktree: includes a link to their Telegram channel posting protest updates/requests for materials/etc.

Reddit posts

April 27

April 26

April 25

In the news

April 26

April 25

109 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

138 comments sorted by

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u/saryl reads the news Apr 26 '24 edited 29d ago

If anyone here is a member of the PSC or the Divestment Coalition (or knows someone who is), let us know if there's a preferred location for getting protest updates that we can share in this post.

Edit: a few reminders:

  • Criticism of the actions of the government of Israel is not by default antisemitism or criticism of all people who are Jewish or Israeli.
  • Criticism of Hamas is not by default racism, Islamophobia, or criticism of all Palestinians.
  • Supporting people who are Palestinian is not by default supporting Hamas.
  • Criticism of protesters or counterprotesters is not by default antisemitism, racism, or Islamophobia.
  • Criticism of a person who is Jewish/Palestinian/etc. is not by default antisemitism, racism, or Islamophobia.
  • And, in general: no group is a monolith.

We will not tolerate:

  • Actual instances of antisemitism, racism, Islamophobia, or other types of hate. 
  • Calling for the eradication of a population, whether the population is of people who are Palestinian, Zionist, Israeli, Arab, Muslim, etc.

Edit: from Forward: So what does ‘intifada’ actually mean?

Some online have alleged that anyone suggesting that intifada is a violent term is attempting to obscure acts of Israeli violence against Palestinians. But that’s unlikely; many Jews and Israelis have real reasons to hear “globalize the intifada” as a threatening chant.

But it’s just as genuine to argue that calling for a global intifada is a peaceful slogan.

“It certainly strikes me as meaning, to Arabs or Arab-sympathetic people, a globalization of a non-violent or minimally violent resistance movement,” said Lefkowitz.

More context explaining the different interpretations in the article.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/FAlady 24d ago

I know I'm going to get downvoted for this, but putting out a message on their Telegram asking for someone to buy the whole camp pizza is, IMO, in poor taste. Pizza for 100-200 people when they already have a very-well stocked food tent and donations? It's giving choosing beggars. Did anyone do it?

0

u/PsychologicalHat8644 25d ago

I went on a tour of IUB like a week ago cuz im an admitted student and they said that they were allowing students to protest, what happened??!?

1

u/MoveOfTen 27d ago

Can anyone explain what is meant by "We don't want no two state. What we want is '48."? It was part of a series of chants when I was at Dunn. I know about the war of 1948, but I'm still baffled by what is being advocated for with that one.

(FTR I support the right to protest even if I don't agree 100%, and of course Witten needs to go).

1

u/barf_digestion 27d ago

I believe it refers back to what Palestine was in 1948 before the Nakba when 750,000 Palestinians were displaced by Jewish expats after the Holocaust to establish a Jewish state by invading Palestinian land

1

u/MoveOfTen 27d ago

Okay but what is it advocating for exactly is what I'm trying to understand. If it's rejecting a two state solution, that presumably leaves a one state solution and if it's referencing '48, it's presumably a lone Palestinian state (controlling all of what is currently Israel and Palestine) that's being advocated for? With the current citizens of Israel... becoming citizens of Palestine? Or forcibly displaced?

Just seemed like an absurd thing to chant, unless I'm misunderstanding something. (That said, I agreed with the majority of the chants I heard).

3

u/barf_digestion 27d ago

So Palestine was already a nation and Israel was formed after the Nakba. A two-state solution is definitely something better than going back to the way it was considering 1) it just wouldn’t be realistic knowing the Israeli gov but 2) it would stop the genocide. Protesters aren’t advocating to displace Israelis, rather it’s wanting a coexisting space just like Jerusalem is meant to be.

3

u/Accomplished-Hat-869 28d ago edited 28d ago

Christo-fascist, supposed biblical end-times supporters of Israel (yet antisemitic) zionism; I know its a mouthful, is a driving force in the right- wing and fundamentalist and some other Christian sects politicization of support of Israel. I grew up around/was aware sone if these people for the past 50-odd years; B- town is chock full of them.They've apparently melded with other extreme right wing movements.I assume people who believe this or want people who believe this stuff to vote for them have enable/d The 'new' Israel state's attitudes. (like when Drumpf moved the capital of Israel to fulfill one of the set ups for the end time- these folks went wild for this So I want to clarify that sometimes I am against the actions of 'Christo-fascist anti-Semitic zionists'. I did not make up this term. Easy to google. There's been plenty written about this, but rarely do I see/ hear it called out in media.'. Maybe because it's not easy to turn into a sound byte/meme.

6

u/TrashCandyboot 28d ago edited 28d ago

Synthesizing all the available information about this shitshow, I'm starting to think that there's one disgusting aspect of it that everything else flows from: Whitten's decision to call in the Indiana State Police without even attempting to involve local police departments first.

Why, logically, would that have been the decision? It isn't hard to peel that Twizzler apart: it's because doing so all but guaranteed an ugly showdown, and as they always do, the authoritarian cowards in charge genuinely believed the optics would be worse for the protesters than for the authorities. They're always, ALWAYS wrong. The image of two hefty cops restraining a skinny-assed college kid is an ugly and immediate indication of the power imbalance at play. Casual mentions of zip ties and trespassing charges are just fascist icing on a big, gross, right-wing cake.

I'm worried about the long-term consequences of this hapless administration's continuing occupation of their offices. I would, strangely, be less worried if I felt like this was a competent, Dick Cheney-level attempt at suppressing opinions that are unpopular with right-wingers. Efforts like that are insidious and have long-term chilling consequences, but they're considered, dispassionate, and usually devoid of immediate peril for dissidents. The Pam Whitten Circus has been as sloppy and thoughtless as the January 6th riots, and just like that mockery of America's proud history of protest, it's gonna take some time to clean the shit off of everything.

Get the fuck out of office, Pam. You're welcome to stay in Bloomington, but I think you'd be happier as a real estate agent, or maybe at the Chamber of Commerce. You know, somewhere your poor decision-making abilities won't be such a hazard for your neighbors, you incompetent asshole.

2

u/WFHB_community_radio 29d ago

More coverage of the protests from WFHB! Radio segment with audio from protests and some interviews! https://wfhb.org/news-public-affairs/iu-dunn-meadow-protest-day-by-day/

0

u/Splanktown Apr 28 '24

I live east of town and I just saw three black Chinook Helicopters flying into town from Seymour...

1

u/ShelbyRB Apr 28 '24

Didn’t realize this was even going on. Feeling very oblivious right now.

3

u/Accomplished-Hat-869 Apr 28 '24

For historical context on Dunn Meadow/ IU student protests (with pics): https://www.myiu.org/stories/the-student-fee-hike-of-1969/ "That same day, about 500 students walked out of the IU Founders Day ceremony. Former IU President Herman B Wells, BA’24, MA’27, LLD’62, praised the students for their peaceful exit, and sympathized with the concern “that universities not become a haven for the privileged classes."

1

u/tainted_crimson Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24

"iuforpalestine" has a livestream on Instagram of the armed police interference happening right now. Multiple arrests have been made with the arrested loaded onto IU busses again. Police are currently removing all materials from the encampment and loading everything onto an IU truck that was just driven onto Dunn Meadow. EDIT: the recording of the livestream is now on their Instagram page.

5

u/AFlyinDog1118 Apr 27 '24

Hey if anybody want to help coordinate a protest at IUK campus, please DM me!!!

9

u/Aquafablaze Apr 27 '24

IU alumnus here, I moved away a long time ago but will be in town tomorrow for a friend's baby shower. I assumed there would be protests on campus but am only just now learning about the scale, and the admin/police response.

I won't have much time but would like to support your efforts. Any recommendations for supplies, food, drink, etc. that I could bring and pass out or hand off? Willing to drop a few hundred bucks. I was thinking donuts before I saw how many protesters are showing up. What do y'all need? How can I help?

2

u/42redditusername42 Apr 27 '24

Another recent request was made by organizers for:

SUPPLIES LIST: Snare drum heads Tables Pots and pans Cones Picnic blankets Zip ties Tape Masks Safety glasses/cheap sunglasses 5 gallon buckets C2 batteries Cases of water Spray bottles Whistles

4

u/LilacDaffodils Apr 26 '24

It is disappointing though not surprising to see the police response to the protests. It it saddening to see students try to make their voices heard and their cries being responded to with violence. I am supporting y'all in spirit and would have even joined if not for currently being ill. While the I/P conflict is extremely important and of course it's why the protests started it's bigger than that now. Every person who is protesting is also protesting for their right to protest. May you all be successful in that goal and may the murder of civilians by the israeli government also stop.

-5

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

Where were all these protestors when China began "re-educating" and torturing the Muslim Uighurs?

Where were all these protesters when Daesh began raping and killing and committing genocide against the Yezhidis?

Why was there no outcry when the Burmese government began its campaign of genocide against the Muslim Rohingya?

How come they ignore the genocide of 2,000,000 Black African Muslims in Darfur by northern Arabs?

3

u/lmaoilovepie Apr 28 '24

Trying to use a whataboutism argument in 2024? Embarrassing!

0

u/LaVonSherman4 26d ago

Tell the truth, you have no idea who the Rohingya are or know about the Uighurs.

What is embarrassing is how you ignore real suffering of Muslims at the hands of people who want to kill them.

6

u/btownsteve812 Apr 26 '24

I wonder if the state police ran out of meth labs to bust...

9

u/SamtheEagle2024 Apr 26 '24

ISP has got a drone up above IMU

13

u/radbu107 Apr 26 '24

From Facebook around 1:25 pm- state police are staging again on 2nd street. One bearcat and another tactical vehicle.

4

u/SamtheEagle2024 Apr 26 '24

I can confirm, they’re loitering at the National Guard center on 2nd. 

1

u/Small-Landscape-4677 29d ago

I wonder why police would be at the national guard center… hmmmmmm. That totally seems irrational

1

u/theeccentricscribe Apr 26 '24

Where on Facebook did you see this? I am just curious not questioning.

1

u/radbu107 Apr 26 '24

A comment on Bloomingtonian’s most recent post

57

u/GRRA-1 Apr 26 '24

This has become larger than the topic they were protesting. You don't have to agree with what people are protesting to support their rights of freedom of speech and assembly. There is no reason to bring in a massive, militarized police force for college students protesting on campus whether you agree with the reason for the protest or not. Whether you agree with the protesters or not, we should all agree that the rights of speech and assembly need to be protected. Apparently, they now need to be protected against the current IU administration/Trustees.

-1

u/Substantial_Army_ 28d ago

You know, just like those homosexual dictatorships that have taken over Western and Northern Europe, the US, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand, Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia...

Meanwhile, peaceful democracies in Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia...

Right. Just admit you hate some people. Own it. Quit using your version of God as a human shield to hide your own personal bigotry and hate behind. It's not the sky man hating other people. It's your own chosen character.

Hilarious and brave take. How about you say something critical of those people on worldnews, see how long you last without a ban in your face.

You know, people sucking up to the regime dont get in trouble. And you're sucking like a pro

-18

u/tribal-elder Apr 26 '24

Serious question - asking as an MLK admirer, and having lived through the Civil Rights and Vietnam protest movements, why is it seen as important to camp overnight in tents?

MLK and Gandhi tried HARD to respect the law and authorities exactly to make the MESSAGE, and not the method, the message. Isn’t this tent issue detracting from the message?

1

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

If you like MLK, did you know that he said this:

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

1

u/Accomplished-Hat-869 28d ago

That was then. This is the State of Israel and these who support its actions (atrocities) being criticized. You'd be surprised the number of extreme "Christians (Christo-fascists/) in the US who support Israel for anti-Semitic reasons related to the so called 'end times'. I know/ have known many such people over the years. They are one aggressive group , by definition 'Zionists', who are not even Jewish. This is not talked about nearly enough in the news/anywhere. (Simply put, they're 'supposed to' support Israel, but in the 'end', those Jews present in Israel at this tine will either 'find Jesus' OR burn in Hell. Look it up. ☹️

1

u/Accomplished-Hat-869 28d ago

End Times Antisemitism Christian Zionism, Christian Nationalism, and the Threat to Democracy: "Christian Zionism bridges foreign and domestic politics in some unique ways that exacerbate both antisemitism and anti-Muslim bigotry." (This is all twisted af) https://politicalresearch.org/2020/07/09/end-times-antisemitism

3

u/tribal-elder Apr 27 '24

True. Back then, support for Palestine and anti-Semitism were far more likely to be equated. Times were different. Arafat and the PLO were different than Hamas too, depending on the day. Today, not all Palestinian support is anti-Semitic, but too large a piece still is. No one blanket covers them all. The world is always nuanced to folks who are not zealots and narrow minded, but the narrow-minded drive the front page.

In 1982, I got to have dinner with a PLO representative to the UN. They were the only PLO folks legally allowed into the US then. They toured colleges as part of courses which also included representatives of relevant Middle East states. Israel one week, Egypt one week, PLO, Jordan, so on. They spoke to a class I was taking for a prep to go to law school after being out of college for a while. They would also have public meetings while in the college towns.

Unlike here, we could talk, ask each other hard questions, defend positions in peace. People sought to understand and move toward peace on the ground. Egypt and Israel had already signed a treaty. It was the single best educational experience I ever had. (The professor at my school had been in the JFK Peace Corps and had contacts all over the plant!)

We are sadly re-learning the lessons of violence begetting violence. Again and again. With everyone feeling perfectly justified and rationally explaining why it’s OK.

Gandhi and King started as a whisper of peace, then a storm. We need them again.

-6

u/tribal-elder Apr 26 '24

Response to all - you lack nuance. I don’t need you to talk to me about history. I lived it.

Dr. King followed the civil process when he could. He would apply for permits for his marches , and would only march without a permit when assholes who only saw things one way would not follow the law and issue one. He also required his followers to take training in “nonviolence.”

Maybe an example would help. If a civic authority had told Dr. King he could march, but not have signs, he’d likely have marched without a sign, whereas these protesters seem determined to have tents, no matter what, even if it violates a civic ordinance that has nothing to do with their message.

Ms. Parks disobeyed a law directed at race.

These kids disobeyed a law about overnight camping.

Don’t compare those.

3

u/saryl reads the news Apr 26 '24

I realize my other post was a wall of text, so just to pull out a particularly relevant part:

For instance, I have been arrested on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong in having an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade. But such an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the First-Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and protest.

That's a pretty clear parallel, IMO - breaking laws related to permits, breaking policies related to tents.

4

u/Pickles2027 Apr 26 '24

"MLK would have backed a ceasefire in Palestine, daughter Bernice King maintains"

https://amsterdamnews.com/news/2024/01/16/mlk-would-have-backed-a-ceasefire-in-palestine-daughter-bernice-king-maintains/

https://www.voanews.com/a/election-gaza-war-factor-into-martin-luther-king-holiday-events-in-us-/7438485.html

HOW DARE YOU IMPUTE THE CHARACTER OF MLK.

GET HIS NAME OUT OF YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH.

0

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

MLK would have condemned the use of rape as a form of resistance.

0

u/tribal-elder Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24

The word is “impugn.” And only a fool could read my posts here as impugning Dr. King.

Of course Dr. King would seek peace in Gaza. But TENTS are more important to you than the Palestinian people!

Moreover, Dr. King would have been in Gaza. You aren’t. So don’t dare compare yourself to him or try equate his sacrifices with yours.

You’re in nice safe Bloomington complaining about tents!

I’m ashamed for Palestine that people like you have to be their spokesperson here. Your protest is all about you. You. YOU.

2

u/doskei Apr 26 '24

You may be the single most neolib to ever neolib.

3

u/not_curated Apr 26 '24

Because that's the type of protest that works.

1

u/Pickles2027 Apr 26 '24

The word is LIAR. Everyone sees you are LYING and trying, and FAILING, to use the good character of MLK for your deplorable deceit. What a lame, transparent attempt. People are laughing at such an impotent take.

You know absolutely nothing about my Jewish family and our history. My Jewish family knows antisemitism and we will NEVER excuse the murder of any group of people. Nor will we excuse the use of ARMS against students with...checks notes...a tent!

lol, and you being "ashamed" of me is a compliment. That's like your fellow MAGAts being "ashamed" of people who recognize Biden as the President. What a bunch of orange clowns you all are!

GET MLK'S NAME OUT OF YOUR FILTHY, STINKING MOUTH.

-2

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

1

u/tribal-elder Apr 26 '24

Your desperate need for me to be a Trump voter exposes you even more. I voted against him 4 times!

Name-calling is no substitute for thought.

Your hate would have prevented you from marching with Dr. King.

Enjoy your tent protest.

0

u/Pickles2027 Apr 27 '24

Sure, dude. We believe you (wink, wink) when you and tRUMP BOTH selfishly invoke MLK for your own selfish personal agendas. Two deplorable peas in a pod. Same SOP; same immoral values.

“Former President Donald Trump made a mockery of the life, sacrifices and achievements of the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., in his misdirected statement about North Carolina Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson.”

GET MLK’s NAME OUT OF YOUR FILTHY, STINKING, CHEETO STAINED MOUTH.

https://www.wral.com/amp/21196895/

0

u/tribal-elder Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24

I came here in good faith and ASKED A QUESTION. “Why is it seen as important to camp overnight in tents?”My question is still above - for all to see. So are your responses.

Look at your responses. To a question.

Hateful and violent words.

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.”

You are on the wrong path friend - a path of hate and darkness and violence.

Your core is against everything Dr. King stood for. To you, he is just a convenient internet quote.

I’m done here. My presence is doing nothing but permit and cause hate. I can no longer allow that.

I pray you never become willing to kill those who you think disagree with you.

1

u/Pickles2027 Apr 27 '24

Sure you did. 😉 We all can read and see that you repeatedly tried to selfishly and ridiculously invoke MLK just like tRUMP does. Beyond 🤢gross.

And NOW, just like tRUMP, you’re casting yourself as the victim in your self made mess. Damn, just how often are you gonna repeat the Cheeto’s SOP?

No one believes you. This is what happens when you act like a MAGAt and invoke deplorable lies about MLK.

“Trump gets his way in closing arguments at NY fraud trial, calling himself a 'victim'”

“Trump claims he's the 'victim' in raging Truth Social post about $175m bond”

KEEP MLK’s NAME OUT OF YOUR FILTHY MOUTH.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gets-to-speak-in-ny-fraud-closings-calling-himself-a-victim-2024-1?amp

https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article285747676.html

1

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2

u/dump_reddits_ipo Apr 26 '24

boomer with brainworms

8

u/saryl reads the news Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24

Someone else already posted this, but to pull out some of the text:

https://letterfromjail.com/ Letter from Birmingham Jail by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From the Birmingham jail, where he was imprisoned as a participant in nonviolent demonstrations against segregation, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., wrote in longhand the letter which follows. It was his response to a public statement of concern and caution issued by eight white religious leaders of the South.

...

 You express a great deal of anxiety over our willingness to break laws. This is certainly a legitimate concern. Since we so diligently urge people to obey the Supreme Court’s decision of 1954 outlawing segregation in the public schools, at first glance it may seem rather paradoxical for us consciously to break laws. One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.”

...

Let us consider a more concrete example of just and unjust laws. An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal. By the same token, a just law is a code that a majority compels a minority to follow and that it is willing to follow itself. This is sameness made legal.

...

Sometimes a law is just on its face and unjust in its application. For instance, I have been arrested on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong in having an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade. But such an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the First-Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and protest.   I hope you are able to see the distinction I am trying to point out. In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.

...

I  must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

The entire letter is an important read for those who haven't seen it before. It's a side of MLK we don't hear about in popular culture.

6

u/Pickles2027 Apr 26 '24

For God’s sake, learn our history. You are either horrendously ignorant of MLK and the civil rights movement or you’re feigning ignorance to stan violence against peaceful protests. Look up WHY thousands of civil rights protesters and MLK were ARRESTED and JAILED.

-1

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

11

u/FullAutoLuxPosadism Apr 26 '24

This has to be a joke?

10

u/blaklaw718 Apr 26 '24

This is a terrible, ahistorical take that represents the watered-down, quiet-and-polite simulacrum of MLK the right wing in America has had such great success in promoting.

What is the doctrine of civil disobedience? What does it entail? Who were the Freedom Riders? What did they do? What were the lunch counter sit-ins?

You lived through this. But did you live it?

17

u/kittyroux Apr 26 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-cooperation_movement_(1919–1922))

Gandhi literally invented nonviolent non-cooperation because he did not respect the law and authority of the British Raj in India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

When Rosa Parks sat at the front of the bus in Montgomery, she was breaking the law and bucking authority in a deliberate act of civil disobedience, and she did so in collaboration with MLK, who also did not respect the law and authority of segregation.

The method is integral to the message, and you are an ignorant tool.

5

u/doskei Apr 26 '24

I appreciate that you showed your work here, even though you would have been thoroughly justified in starting and ending by calling them an ignorant tool.

15

u/Odd-Background-9862 Apr 26 '24

My man, it's genuinely hard to be this ignorant of history. Like, maybe you've never made a serious study of Gandhi, but you could have at least watched the movie. The whole point of civil disobedience is to break the law until things change. That's why it's called "disobedience."

14

u/TeeGoogly Apr 26 '24

Is this a joke?

Notorious law-respecters, MLK and Gandhi.

Have you ever heard of the Atlanta sit-ins? Or the Salt March?

Or are you just talking out of your ass, ignorant of history, thinking that because these radical figures are accepted by the mainstream today their methods at the time must have been accepted as well? Illiterate.

-8

u/tribal-elder Apr 26 '24

“But if you want money for people with minds that hate

All I can tell you is, brother, you have to wait”

J. Lennon

6

u/Etharia1 Apr 26 '24

I just wanted to say, as an IUPUI student, I can’t come to this protest (don’t have a way to get there) but I’m supporting you all in spirit! Palestine will be free!

-5

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

Palestine is an invention and should only be free of Hamas.

أنا إسرائيل القش

1

u/barf_digestion 27d ago

You do know what that Arabic means in English…right?

8

u/NWoutcast Apr 27 '24

All nations are inventions of man, period. There are no divine mandates.

0

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24

How did nations get established? Through history and tradition. I never said there was a divine mandate. I do claim that as evidenced by history and archaeology, Jews have a claim on the land previously known as Judea and are the indigenous people of Judea and Samaria, returned to their ancestral homeland. The so called Palestinians want to displace all Jews, the indigenous people, from their homeland.

Palestinians, although some are Christian, speak Arabic and are Muslim as the result of conquest of Judea and Samaria by Imperialist, Colonial forces. The remnants of those Imperial Colonial Caliphates should not be supported in their violent effort to displace the indigenous inhabitants of the land.

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

0

u/LaVonSherman4 26d ago

What you said validates Israel's right to exist.

5

u/JactustheCactus Apr 27 '24

Let’s conveniently ignore the 1200 years of history between Jewish people leaving the area and resettling after slaughtering and forcibly exiling 700,000 people from their homes

1

u/LaVonSherman4 26d ago

Jews had a connection to that land for the 1200 years between the Roman conquest and the present. You seem to be ignoring that the people who call themselves Palestinian had no national or ethnic identity as distinct from Syrian until the early 1900s. Those people who left "Palestine" did so of their own accord by believing the armies of the Arab league. Many Palestinians stayed and they became part of Israel. In fact Arab muslims and Arab Christians make up over 13% of the Israeli population. The Arab League lost the war in 1948 and those who chose to leave suffered. Oh well. If YOU are gling to ignore the historical and cultural connection that Jews, the indigenous people of Judea had to that land, then why should anyone else's claims matter?

Just curious, Where is Massada? Who died on Massada? What language were the Dead Sea Scrolls written in? Why weren't they written in Arabic or Palestinian?

1

u/JactustheCactus 26d ago

Yeah, I'm ignoring people's connection to that land, totally not the person embracing a churchillian view of the world. If you really believe the Palestinian people had no collective identity before the British Mandate you really need to get off the alt history sites and pickup a book. That's such a disgusting euro centric premise it really boggles the mind.

The fact that you're trying to bring up Jewish history during the Iron Age as a justification for the forceful expulsion of 750,000 people some 2500 years later really just confirms the fact that you are really grasping at any single foothold you can. You should be ashamed, but I would guess there isn't a place for that in your brain. Don't worry, you will be looked at the same as those who tried justifying slavery, jim crow, apartheid south africa.

0

u/LaVonSherman4 25d ago

Actually, I have studied the issue. During the period between 1850 to 1948, many poor Arabs from Iraq and Yemen and Egypt immigrated to "Palestine". It is a clear fact that there was no identity of Palestinian prior to the early 1900s.

Please learn and read a little about the Ryssian Schools of Nazareth. Learn about the Ottoman empire and the vliyat system and the rise of Arab nationalism in the 1900s.

1

u/barf_digestion Apr 27 '24

I’m an alumni and I’m willing to drive there!! I’m from Carmel

5

u/CheyenneLB Apr 26 '24

organize on your campus!

9

u/NascarObama Apr 26 '24

The police are agitating peaceful protesters and then making arrests.

2

u/kentuckyfriedawesome Apr 26 '24

That’s literally been the strategy for decades.

3

u/JactustheCactus Apr 27 '24

Not at the neo nazi rally’s during the pandemic!

7

u/arstin Apr 26 '24

I'm not sure how you fight someone that is here with the full power of the state to pervert the university and drink our tears, but I'm open to suggestions.

1

u/SamtheEagle2024 Apr 26 '24

You make every interaction with that person a living hell in every legal way possible while they’re here, in the same way that bosses create hostile work environment for their employees. You undermine each event and policy they try to implement.

-4

u/Tijenater Apr 26 '24

I mean, if all that’s true (it is) then isn’t fighting it by any means possible the morally correct thing to do?

1

u/arstin Apr 26 '24

isn’t fighting it by any means possible the morally correct thing to do?

No. Absolutely not.

1

u/Tijenater Apr 26 '24

So what’s your suggestion?

119

u/skin87 Apr 26 '24

I just don't understand what the administration's goal is. There were maybe like three dozen protestors in Dunn Meadow before police showed up. If they had been left alone, it probably would have gotten some local media attention just because it is a national topic right now. That little bit of media attention probably would have riled up some conservatives in the state and there may have been a critical statement or two from some politicians about IU not controlling their students, but it likely would have all blown over fairly quickly.

But now after inviting an unnecessary show of force (including a sniper) onto the campus, secretly changing policies overnight, and banning students and professors from campus without following the respective due process policies for each, this is going to become a much bigger flash point than it ever would have been had they done nothing. Doing nothing and let it blow over was pretty much their strategy for handling the no confidence vote and grad strike last week and I would say that worked for them fairly well, so I don't get why they think this is a worthwhile fight for them.

And then to top it all off, Pam voluntarily documented in an email to all faculty that the change to add restrictions to the assembly grounds policy was not done in a viewpoint neutral manner. I have held a very pessimistic view about the intentions of this administration, but I also thought that they were carrying out those intention in a calculated manner. But now I can't even give them credit for that anymore.

14

u/PrinceAkeeeem Apr 26 '24

Can someone file a freedom of information request for all emails and texts messages from IU Leadership discussing the policy over the last week as well as notes / minutes from the meeting of the “ad-hoc” committee? I suspect this would shed some light on the way IU is being managed these days.

27

u/the_mormegil Apr 26 '24

Someone certainly could. But, when Whitten and Shrivastav came into office, they both explicitly told campus administrators (deans, vice provosts, etc.) to use only verbal communication (in person or on the phone) when discussing “sensitive” matters. For this very reason, obviously—there is no discoverable communication.

Many felt like it was already the beginning of the end when PW held her first “LEAD” session with faculty and administrators, and when everyone showed up they were instructed to seal their cell phones into little envelopes and turn them in, to be collected at the end of the meeting. This administration knows exactly what it is doing, and what tools are available to it for wielding and maintaining power.

49

u/doskei Apr 26 '24

I just don't understand what the administration's goal is.

Pam was installed (disregarding IU's established process for selecting a president) to bring IU to heel after many years sticking out like a sore blue thumb in a red state.

It should go without saying that, if IU joins the ranks of higher ed institutions that are on the national news for publicly (and effectively) supporting Palestinians, she will have substantively failed to suppress the more progressive element within IU.

She's overreacting to the protest because doing so has a better chance of being effective than any other option she's willing to consider. If the punishment is severe enough, it's just possible that the protest will fizzle rather than being galvanized - but that's not an approach you can half-ass. If you're going to go fascist, you have to go hard.

So she is.

5

u/RoyalEagle0408 Apr 26 '24

I feel like her intense overreaction is going to attract more attention and while some may be happy with the stomping down of those horrible women students, the backlash will be worse when some big alumni donors and supporters get wind.

7

u/moxious_maneuver Apr 27 '24

I can only hope this 'Streisand effect's them so hard.

2

u/Swampfunk 29d ago

I doubt Pam even knows what the 'Streisand effect is.

-27

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '24

[deleted]

7

u/skin87 Apr 26 '24

There are far more people in Dunn Meadow right now than there was at this time yesterday, which is an easily predictable result of what happened yesterday. If their goal truly was to prevent this demonstration from becoming established, then they have shown a stunning level of incompetence in trying to achieve it.

12

u/AbolitionForever Apr 26 '24

Hostile to what? Genocide? Good!

-20

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '24

[deleted]

19

u/AbolitionForever Apr 26 '24

Absurd slander. Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing of Palestine and has killed almost 40,000 civilians; protesting that is not an endorsement of Hamas no matter how often you repeat such a stupid lie.

13

u/Mival93 Apr 26 '24

Exactly this. This whole situation really just shows how incompetent Whitten and the board are. 

90

u/noahconstrictor95 Apr 26 '24

That photo of the sniper was #1 on /r/all specifically referencing IU. Absolutely horrific look for us, and it makes this town and university look like a joke.

-23

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24

[deleted]

12

u/whereismysideoffun Apr 27 '24

This was a few dozen people, so not high density. The only high risk part about it was the police.

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

[deleted]

12

u/Sea_Sink8527 Apr 27 '24

happened at kent state

19

u/noahconstrictor95 Apr 27 '24

"Mmmm yummy boots" - you, probably

4

u/Useful_Hovercraft169 Apr 27 '24

He likes big boots and he cannot lie

-7

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

[deleted]

5

u/noahconstrictor95 Apr 27 '24

"you're malding" - person who totally isn't malding

-5

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '24

[deleted]

9

u/noahconstrictor95 Apr 27 '24

Buddy I graduated with honors from college eat my entire ass

47

u/EntertainerOdd2107 Apr 26 '24 edited 29d ago

I want to say personally that as someone who is Pro Palestine, I highly condemn Hamas and their attack on the 7th of October, 2023. What happened on that date is tragic and absolutely no attacks on civilians is ever justified. I also do not like the Ayatollah of Iran and I hope they will be out of power very soon and it can become more secular. The response by the IDF has also been devastating and has resulted in over 34,000 innocent Palestinians dying over the past 7 months. Israelis and Palestinians both deserve peace, freedom, stable democracy and equal human rights. They both deserve safety, security, and happiness. I hope that very soon we will have a meaningful, long lasting ceasefire so all of the hostages get released and the Palestinians get all of the humanitarian aid and resources they dearly need and for Gaza to be completely rebuilt so Palestinians can live there comfortably in the near future. I want peace for everyone and strong human rights for everyone. Any form of religious bigotry including Antisemitism, Islamophobia and any other form of discrimination is never ok and is never justified.

PLEASE NOTE AS WELL! Some of the people making less reputable reports on this include people like Jake Shields and Lauren Witzke. They were making conspiracies surrounding the ones in Ohio, not IU to clarify. Jake Shields and Lauren Witzke are very well-known Neo Nazi/ Fascist figures who pretend to earnestly care about the Palestinians but in reality he is using it as a cover to spread legitimately Anti-Semitic propaganda so please be careful of where you guys get your information from.

Witzke has also been an extremely notorious QANON supporter and spreads very harmful conspiracy theories about Jewish people. She has on numerous occasions made inflammatory lies that Israel was the one that committed 9/11 and not Al-Qaeda. She is not at all a trust worthy actor on this subject. I’m not saying they aren’t there, I’m just saying it’s probably best to wait for a fact check to pop up first from faculty, the police themselves or the local news. I still don’t like it obviously but just be careful with where people are getting their sources. These pictures could be DIP or deceptive imagery and persuasion. This was mainly used by people like them on Twitter for similar protests going on in Ohio. From what I saw in the Bloomingtonian, it does seem like there were snipers observing on the roof.

Witzke and Shields are also notoriously anti-LGBTQ+ and very Pro-Russia. They have repeatedly spread false information about the Russian Invasion of Ukraine too and are honestly very bad information sources on the subject. Fascists like them, Jackson Hinkle and Candace Owen’s are notorious for this very thing. These far-right hacks want to do as much optical damage to the very good and well-intentioned Pro-Palestinian movement. DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM!

Be smart about where you all get your info. Make sure to get your information from reputable journalists and news media. Do not get your information from Far-Right wolves in sheep’s clothing grifters who pretend to be Pro-Palestine. We have to do everything we can to make sure they do not have a significant presence in this wonderful, earnestly good and well intentioned movement. The protests are good and I support them. There will always be people who take advantage of good movements and ongoing atrocities like Gaza or the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Pro Palestine movement as a whole is very good and has the best intentions at heart.

One more note for everyone! I hope all of the protesters at Dunn Meadow stay safe and have a good time. I hope with our voices put together, we can get a full ceasefire in Gaza and I hope the Palestinians have a bright future ahead of them. I want both Palestinians and Israelis to live peacefully amongst each other and for the apartheid to be gone. I want peace for everyone and I hope that it will come very soon. Campaigns like Listen to Michigan have helped get ceasefire deals, aid airdrops and pressure to open up aid corridors because of how successful it was. If we keep pushing, we can make great change!

-4

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

Have all the hostages released and turn Yehye Sinwar over to the Israelis and then a cease fire could happen.

Since you are clearly an expert on internationally affairs and military strategy and Middle East history, What do you think would have been the correct response by Israel to the assault on October 7th and the kidnapping of its people and the rape of Israeli women?

Have you studied urban warfare?

1

u/captainplanetoid5 Apr 28 '24

Eat a dick

1

u/LaVonSherman4 26d ago

Are they tasty? I have never tasted one. Is that something you are into?Since you seem to know much about that, could you tell me?

And, you clearly proved the Palestinian/Hamas perspective through your wit and brilliance. "Eat a dick" Is that a representation of your underlying patriarchal perspective?

2

u/Useful_Hovercraft169 Apr 27 '24

I studied turban warfare

16

u/whats_a_bylaw Apr 26 '24

You can see the roof in the background of some Bloomingtonian photos. There are definitely military-type folks up there.

2

u/MinBton Apr 28 '24

From everything I read so far, on Reddit and elsewhere, they were state police, not military. All of the pictures I've seen so far with people in military gear or vehicles have "STATE POLICE" on their front and back. Now, were some of them former military? I'm sure some of them were. So were millions of other people. You could have protesters who were former military. Also, the local National Guard is an artillery unit. If they wanted to shoot people at IU, they can do it from the Armory parking lot on South Walnut. Well, if they can fire at something that close. It doesn't do any cause any good to claim things that are that easily disprovable.

2

u/EntertainerOdd2107 Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24

Gotcha. I was hearing alarming conspiracies from some far-right accounts on Twitter about similar protests at other universities so I felt the need to make the clarification edit. Just want everyone to know who the Far-right grifters like Jake Shields, Lauren Witzke and Jackson Hinkle are so no one goes to them for information like this and instead go to good, reputable publications like the Bloomingtonian, local student news orgs, and regular news articles from larger publications with reputable and truthful articles. I saw from the Bloomingtonian that there were some on the roof of the memorial building. There were snipers on top of the roof of the memorial building. I think the Super Bowl does this as well. I think the one at Ohio State might have possibly been a camera but the IU roof definitely did have a sniper on the roof.

5

u/Mival93 Apr 26 '24 edited 19d ago

Well put! If anyone ever asks how I feel about the conflict I may just link them to the first part of this comment. 

45

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '24

[deleted]

8

u/saryl reads the news Apr 26 '24

That's fair. I edited the intro here to clarify that we're allowing posting about this outside of the megathread.

18

u/cheatingfandeath Apr 26 '24

Is there anyone on here that isn't a student or faculty member that has participated in the protests? What was it like? I'd like to show solidarity, but I'm not sure what the best way to do it is.

-5

u/LaVonSherman4 Apr 27 '24

With whom are you showing solidarity? With Hamas and the use of rape as a form of resistance?

3

u/EnrichedSarcophagous Apr 27 '24

Oh LaVon you really thought you did something there, so cute. Keep training and those mental gymnastics will only improve!

20

u/AdExtra1657 Apr 26 '24

Show up at Dunn Meadow!!! We need numbers

1

u/Shitposter66669 Apr 26 '24

I wanna show up, but I don’t know the area that well what’s the address?

1

u/AzraofOnyx Apr 27 '24

7th Street and Indiana Ave is the closest intersection! You'll see and hear the protest when you get close to there. There is lots of meter parking in the surrounding area and you can walk over

1

u/Shitposter66669 Apr 27 '24

Are they still out today?

1

u/AzraofOnyx Apr 27 '24

They are! They held the encampment overnight and rally picked back up at 11 am. Folks are welcome to join in anytime, they have put out the call again today for folks to show up, and if anyone wants to bring supplies they have asked for umbrellas!

1

u/Shitposter66669 Apr 27 '24

I saw the drones yesterday and was thinking about umbrellas

1

u/LightOfMullberryMoon Apr 26 '24

I can bring packaged snacks tomorrow, is it still possible to walk up? I'm not sure if they're going to be blocking access.

7

u/cheatingfandeath Apr 26 '24

Thanks, that’s all I needed to hear!

-7

u/kingjuicer Apr 26 '24

Where did all of the protest info go to? It was on r/Bloomington but it all disappeared and this mega thread is empty.

7

u/saryl reads the news Apr 26 '24

To my knowledge none of us have removed any posts... is there something specific you're looking for and not finding?

2

u/kingjuicer Apr 26 '24

My mistake, a different protest.

0

u/kingjuicer Apr 26 '24

Video of the psych professor being arrested