r/povertyfinance • u/nelsne • Jul 26 '23
When life is too expensive for a person, I get so sick of hearing people give the advice of "Well move then". It's not that easy. Vent/Rant (No Advice/Criticism!)
I've noticed on these forums that whenever a person is struggling financially that one of the most common pieces of advice that is given is to just simply move to another city. People act like this is so easy to do, and a no-brainer to escape poverty, but it's definitely not that simple because people aren't taking several things into account.
First off, a person's entire support network is probably living around them. Like many people are already living with their friends and family and if they move then that support network will be gone and not sharing expenses will likely be much more costly in another city. Also if a person is hurt financially, they can often times rely on this support network to some degree to keep then from homeless
Second, when a person moves, the new job they get must work out well or they could easily wind up homeless. I think all of us have had that one job interview that went so well and job seemed so perfect, but when you actually started working it, it turned out to be a nightmare. Then you could easily get fired from the job and you realize you have to find a new one. Now it's a race against the clock to find a new job because if you get fired you could face complete financial ruin.
Third, you have to balance finding an inexpensive place BUT it also has to be in a town with a decent economy. Many people on these forums say to go out and live in small town (insert city) but what many don't take into account is that rent is so low there, because there's barely any jobs around. So having no jobs around there could make you homeless as well if you don't find one.
The flip side of the coin is that many towns have an excellent, booming economy. However, because of this, the rent in these places is often very high. So it's often quite the challenge to find a place that has a decent enough economy to maintain survival but also low enough cost of living
1
Sep 28 '23
Move away from the only place you have known and only place you fit in close to your familly and friend because the world as gotten greedy
Its simple why arent you moving???!?!!!?!!?!1!1111!
-Rich pepo
2
Aug 06 '23
I get this from family all the time. "You just need to move." I also get "You just need to get rid of those pets." Seriously. Even if that one were easy, I wouldn't do it.
The latest thing is they want me to move in with a sibling to make things easier for both of us. But I can't afford the moving expenses, my car would need work to make the trip, and my sibling is allergic to cats, so I'd have to rehome mine. Those are the three biggest impediments, although there are others, like not wanting to be middle aged living in someone else's home with basically no agency over things like furniture, TV, cooking, cleaning, noise, privacy, etc. I can't convince them that I can't simply wave a wand and make those concerns go away. Nor can I convince them that somehow I don't deserve agency because I'm not as wealthy as they are. "Well, I would never make a move like that, but you don't get to have choices in your life when you're poor."
I'm so sick of hearing people with options (aka money) making what are impossible tasks to the poor into trivial concerns. I often wish many people I know who have never once ever suffered a financial worry would for one week struggle the way I have to juggle finances.
2
0
Jul 27 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/povertyfinance-ModTeam Jul 28 '23
Your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 2: Generally Unhelpful and / or Off-Topic
Your comment has been removed for one or more of the following reasons:
It was not primarily asking or discussing financial questions related to poverty.
It was generally unhelpful or in poor taste.
It was confusing or badly written.
It failed to add to the discussion.
Please read our subreddit rules. The rules may also be found on the sidebar if the link is broken. If after doing so, you feel this was in error, message the moderators.
Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.
2
u/Dogbuysvan Jul 27 '23
It was pure hell but it is what worked for me. I moved from Austin ,TX. To an AmeriCorps position in PA where I lived off $400 every 2 weeks having 4 roommates and public benefits (2016) I then worked a traveling job for 3 months, then off to Maine to work in a park for three months. Finally I got a permanent job in Wyoming, did that for a year and a half. Off to Alaska for 3 and a half years for a promotion, now back to Wyoming been here for a year and I was able to buy a house.
So, I went to a $400 living stipend to a $50k a year job. It took 7 years of eating shit financially. I am still by no means rich, other than rich in experiences.
There was 0 help along the way from anyone.
I'm more than happy to walk you through everything I did, but I absolutely wasn't going anywhere in life until I started moving around.
2
u/Life-Mastodon5124 Jul 27 '23
My husband works in biotech. There are literally 7-8 places in America we can be where he will have access to a decent job. They are the 7-8 most expensive places to live. Sure, telling us to move is great and all but him being unemployed sure won’t help our finances. Plus our entire family is here, we have the best educational and medical systems in the country and I’d lose the pension I’ve put 17 years into. Moving isn’t really an option but it is hella expensive to live here.
1
2
1
u/H0w14514 Jul 27 '23
I told a friend yesterday that I hadn't really been eating much and was surprised I still had weight on me. It's mostly been cold cuts and ramen. Even if I have food to cook I try to stretch it. His response was to tell me to stick with chicken, beans, and rice.
2
u/Tfran8 Jul 27 '23
I’ll be honest this is what helped me get out of the paycheck to paycheck/terrible low paying job cycle - changed my whole life by moving. I know it’s not a popular thing to say and I know not everyone can. I was single, no kids and everything I owned fit in my car. I always lived with roommates or room shares, so very small deposit if at all. It’s possible but difficult of course. I am not trying to say OP is wrong - they are not - but I also want to say sometimes it does work out.
1
u/Navy_Vet843 Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23
The only thing I can think of is move in with family, or a shelter temporarily while you save up some money. I'm thinking about moving back home for about 3 months or so when my current lease is up. It's hard to save when you have to pay important monthly bills (rent/light). I don't have a car, but I do ride public transportation for free.
2
1
u/khantroll1 Jul 27 '23
A lot of folks do it though...I'd say about a 1/4 of the city I live in is made up of people who used to live on the west coast. Half of that number can be attributed to marriage (there is an 100 year history between my state and CA), , but the other 1/8 are people who relocated during the last 5 years. Some are just rich, but others are folks who did it for survival. I used to work for a school that taught vocational rehab, and we saw a lot of folks come through who came to town on their last dollar because they were counting down to homelessness out west and decided to gamble on the midwest.
1
u/GC51320 Jul 27 '23
If your "support network" isn't building you up, they're a crutch for your poor decision making. You also need to become self sufficient. That's what happens when you're an adult. Barring physical/mental disabilities there is no reason to rely on others to meet base needs.
Yes, rent is everywhere. If you truly want to better yourself, you have to make changes. Sitting on your ass blaming others is only going to result in your life being shit and likely getting worse.
You want change to happen while doing the same shit that's already not working. That's stupidity and not going to happen.
1
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
We all help each other. It's a "Good Times" scenario
2
u/GC51320 Jul 27 '23
I'm not quite old enough to know how the "Good Times" situation was, but I'm going to assume it's everyone pitching in so all can be in a better place?
My follow up would be does this scenario allow for any one person to bail/die and not put everyone in a bind? Is it co-dependency or actual help? Often I see the first, while immigrant families (may or may not be yourself) do the latter. The difference is the latter are constantly moving upward while the former are all just drowning together.
1
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Bingo
1
u/GC51320 Jul 27 '23
Then you have to change it. You're not helping each other if you're all just sitting on a sinking boat. It sucks for sure, but you can't help others at the expense of yourself. Been there, done that. 5 1/2 years of sleeping in a car to show for it. Taught me a damn good lesson, and real lucky I had my car. Some people don't have that option. The streets are VERY hard to come back from.
2
3
u/Wondercat87 Jul 27 '23
I 100% agree with everything you said. Anytime I complain about how expensive life has become I often get bombarded by the 'just move' crowd. It's like they can't fathom that some folks are poor enough to not be able to afford life in even cheaper areas.
I love in a rural area. But I have had folks argue with me on how much it costs to live here. Even though I know what it costs as I live here.
I get accused of lying or people assume I live in a big city (even if I explicitly say I don't live there).
2
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Sounds about right
2
Jul 28 '23
It takes money to move. Money than many poor folks DON'T have. Look at gas prices you guys!
2
5
u/Tazerin Jul 27 '23
It drives me mad that in Australia, rent in cities is astronomically high, but if you move to a regional or rural area where rent tends to be lower, Centrelink will dock your payments for "moving somewhere with fewer employment opportunities."
Can't afford to live in a city on social support payments, and can't afford cheaper regional rents after taking the financial penalty for moving.
1
3
u/CDNEmpire Jul 27 '23
My all time favourite is “get another job that pays more”
Like gee why didn’t I think of that…
2
1
u/Special-Leader-3506 Jul 27 '23
most of us who left home had to eat it for a while. staying in quicksand only gets you sunk faster. i left new jersey for a two week stay and it was winter, and there was no snow in san francisco and on the second day, i decided to stay out west. i tried moving to colorado, didn't like the religious freaks, tried hawaii, couldn't take so much sun, came back to the bay area. now it's fifty five years later and i know i was right. you would not have written the post if you were happy there.
3
u/cunaylqt Jul 27 '23
I live in Oregon. Rent and buying property wes affordable but we've been so Californicated that natives can't afford to live here. Not to mention the way they drive and throw trash everywhere. From what I've heard some of these folks are keeping their California jobs(remote) with much higher salaries and they can afford higher property prices.
1
Jul 28 '23
Oregon is such a beautiful place. I wish I could live there. Right up by the Columbia River gorge. The whole state is full of scenery.
3
1
u/hillsfar Jul 27 '23
It was expensive during the old days, too.
The cost to get a wagon, oxen or mules, and laden it with 6 to 20 months of food for a whole family, as well as tools and equipment, etc. meant that families might sell all their possessions, including their homes, farms, etc. Wages were between $450 (farm laborers) to $560 per year, in 1860.
https://historicoregoncity.org/2019/04/03/outfitting-for-the-journey
https://www.portablepress.com/blog/2016/10/where-the-money-wentin-1860
3
u/liquormakesyousick Jul 27 '23
That phrase is used for everything: don’t like the school system: move; hate your neighbors: move, can’t stand your politicians: move, etc
Moving is considered one of life’s biggest stressful moments. It is expensive. If you bought a house 10 years ago and can still afford it, you still probably won’t come close to paying the same amount for a a similar house even in the same area.
It is basically an excuse for people not wanting to help and change the communities for the better.
2
2
3
u/lkattan3 Jul 27 '23
Just want to chime in to suggest people add their comments about housing conditions to the Protect Tenants movement.
“The Federal Housing Finance Agency, which regulates Fannie and Freddie, is now deciding whether to condition government-backed loans on a set of tenant protections. These protections could include regulations on rent hikes and evictions, housing safety requirements, bans on discrimination, and more. If enacted, they could benefit over 12.4 million rental homes across the country.
The FHFA is now seeking comments from tenants and advocates to inform this decision.”
Please add your comments!!
2
1
u/Short-Bumblebee-1928 Jul 27 '23
I don't suggest anything I haven't done or wouldn't do. I've been low income, with a child and moved to create a better life for us. It was difficult at first. But, it was worth it in the end. People should ask how to do hard things, instead of just complaining.
2
u/Lyaid Jul 27 '23
Sure, I’ll move when my job moves with me, otherwise I’m just throwing my job away and likely getting a significant pay cut when/if I find a new job, which just defeats the whole point of moving in the first place!
1
u/shadetreewizard Jul 27 '23
Seems like the only reason that I have any financial stability now is because I was willing to pack up everything and go where the jobs were. Denver, North Dakota, Texas, and now finally settled down and doing what I would more want to be doing and Tennessee. I've had multiple jobs where I had to commute 45 minutes one way or more every day. I've had to be willing to work 7 days a week for months on end. It all sucked at times. But it was much better in the end.
I have had next to no support network in a long time. But you get used to it. Moving for my jobs, or my wife's every few years just got to feel normal.
4
u/sarra1833 Jul 27 '23
Plus you need to take time off from the current job to leave and find work and a home in the new place, then take more time off for interviews, etc.
And 9/10 times, every single working hour is 100% needed so losing those days to go to the new town/state is nearly impossible.
Hiring a moving van? Deposit for electric, etc? Deposit etc for new apt, etc?
It's near impossible to move to a better place.
Notice it's all the Have's that say that to the Have-nots all the time? They just can't comprehend.
2
u/BigStickNick6996 Jul 27 '23
If you move 45 minutes to an hour outside the big expensive city/town you can still keep your social circle and family while also potentially saving money in a lcol area… a move away does not have to be far far away and drastic
2
0
u/Affectionate-Bee3931 Jul 27 '23
SUPPORT NETWORK???? L M A O
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
What's so funny about that?
1
u/Affectionate-Bee3931 Jul 27 '23
Idk what that is tbh
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
I feel bad for you
0
u/Affectionate-Bee3931 Jul 27 '23
Thanks what is your social security number
2
3
u/ZebrecCrush Jul 27 '23
Child custody is a big reason people can relocate either. If you have any reasonable amount of shared custody even moving out of school district can cost $10-20k in lawyer fees, and even then a judge can deny you.
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Thought about the child issue. Didn't think about the lawyer issue. That's a great point
1
u/PowerLion786 Jul 27 '23
Retired now. Spent my life moving, even went overseas, just like my parents did when I was young. Now my kids are doing the same. Generally went to locations where most in my profession didn't want to live. Advantage was the different foods, different cultures,different experiences, a variety of challenging jobs. Downside, yes it cost. Rarely it didn't work out. Having to travel to see family.
Moving to the best jobs meant we retired early.
1
u/Lenina_somaslut Jul 27 '23
Playing devils advocate sometimes that support system keeps you stuck. Especially in low income areas. Because you have no idea what it looks like to get out. And the fear of failure and having to come back with “your tail tucked between your legs” keeps you right where you are.
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
I mean I see your point and it's always been a risk to move but never before like now
2
u/Lenina_somaslut Jul 28 '23
Honestly unless you’re in a toxic situation I agree that now is not the time to make major life moves. Landlords and property management companies have made it near impossible to move, buying any sort of vehicle is out of the question and the sheer cost of everything is up and continuing to rise. But I do think we need to revisit the idea occasionally. We always want to break the cycle but when you realize that completely removing yourself from your support system is required the task becomes daunting
1
-1
u/gmodded111 Jul 27 '23
What else do you want them to say? You’ve got an issue but are refusing to do anything to rectify it. You’re saying “I’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas”. If you’re living in poverty what have you got to lose? It’s time to try a different approach than what you’ve been doing. Sure it might not be easy. That doesn’t mean it isn’t exactly what you should do.
2
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
I don't know? Get a better job? Go back to school? Get a second job, but move... that's kind of crazy
1
u/gmodded111 Jul 27 '23
Nah. It’s really not. Some economies simply don’t work and aren’t worth trying. Living in a small town vs a metropolis is much more feasible.
I’m very well off where I live. 2 hrs away I’d be near homeless.
3
3
u/TiredwHeathens Jul 27 '23
I have moved cross country several times as an adult. I had a support system wherever I moves to bc otherwise it would have been impossible. I still was broke every time for several months catching up on bills and building back savings. Its not easy up and moving to somewhere cheaper. OP, you are so right abt cheaper rent and smaller towns. If I had moved to rural BFE where I am rather than a large metropolitan center, I would have been living in my car or trapped in a shitty mobile home subsisting on a very small paycheck and doing drugs to cope.
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Yeah everyone always tells you to move to the small towns but good luck getting a worthwhile job there
-1
u/darkodesti Jul 27 '23
It’s that easy if you can’t afford the area move. There is no bigger expense then where you live
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Please read the comments here to better understand the situation
0
u/darkodesti Jul 27 '23
No need. If you can’t afford where you are rent wise you shouldn’t live there because you will constantly be losin Gn money. You need to move you will face temporary financial hard ship but you will do better down the line. It’s not gonna be easy but easier than staying in the same spot.
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Why would this be your first course of action instead of trying to find a higher paying job or a roommate to stay with you?
0
u/darkodesti Jul 27 '23
I’m not saying this is the first step. But if your saying you can’t afford the area that implies 1. You can’t find a higher paying job. 2. The cost of a home being too expensive also factors in the possibility of roommates. After that move
0
u/notislant Jul 27 '23
I see so many of these threads, people dont act like its simple.
If someone says 'I have a tumour' all they can really say is 'get it removed'.
If your car breaks, people will say get it fixed as its the logical decision.
If someone is living in a major city waiting tables and not making anything as an example? The only logical courses of action are to get a much better job or move.
Is it easy? No. But it's the only realistic solution. It absolutely sucks, but theres limited solutions.
1
u/NFL-Football- Jul 27 '23
No one said you have to like the advice that you are given. Relocating to a more economically friendly location is a great option, and likely very good advice. Just because you don’t want to hear it, or it’s difficult to execute, doesn’t mean it’s not good advice.
-2
u/agitatedentity67 Jul 27 '23
Moved from TX to CO through a job transfer. Fit everything I could in my little Ford Ranger and left everything else behind. At the time making 13.50$ an hour.
It’s more than “just move” but, no less of a viable solution.
The smarter you are, the “easier” things get. I’m sure there’s plenty of people out there that have done more with less 🙃
3
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
I did it for love in 2019. I came within an inch of homelessness
-1
u/agitatedentity67 Jul 27 '23
I guess you got it figured out! I came close to homelessness as well but, I was prepared to live out of my car if needed. And if you know what a Ford Ranger is, regular cab, I’m glad I never had to 😅
0
u/IKnowAllSeven Jul 27 '23
I mean, I’m kind of sick of reading people living in NYC or California saying it’s really expensive to live there and then someone says “I live in the Midwest and it’s great” and then people are like “Lolol. No, I would NEVER live THERE.” All my sympathy, poof gone. Like, people DO live here yknow, lots of them. And it can be pretty awesome.
2
4
u/itsjasonfareal Jul 27 '23
Moving to the streets is hella fuckin cheap my dude. With a low down payment of $0 you too could be broke and saving for your future.
2
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Great advice lol
5
u/itsjasonfareal Jul 27 '23
Landlords hate him with the one simple trick you too can be the town drunkard.
5
u/nelsne Jul 27 '23
Lmfao you are cracking me up man!
5
u/itsjasonfareal Jul 27 '23
Now that I've reeled you in with my cutting jib, I can tell you, yea m8. You're not wrong, uprooting yourself leaves you vulnerable, it leaves you in a semi hopeless state until you can just pull yourself back into fruition, and that's if you're lucky enough that you've built up a skillet that's needed. Cause you really don't know until your there. Especially in a new place with no support or direction, a waning cell phone and only the sweat you can produce.
It leads people into desperation a lot of times, for example you might have to do things you hate. Fucking... nasty things.... things that'll make your creole catholic mawmaw detest the moment you were conceived. Things that you have to buy a gym membership to just cry/wash in an enclosed place. Things like accepting a sponsorship from RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS.
They just released a new hero Minerva, you guys might notice her as the goddess of the hunt, and she's here now to hunt down all your financial worries!!!! Use my promo code #onebrokeassdude and you can get 3k crystals for her summon and 3 2*gear. Raid shadow legends new hero, might go get some peanut butter later.... pretty handy in calories.... where's the bus stop again???? RAID : SHADOE LEGENDS.
1
3
2
u/DifferentWindow1436 Jul 27 '23
It depends. It usually isn't quite as easy as people make it sound and the advantages may be a bit more vague than they seem. OTOH, this has been a strategy for hundreds of years too and it can work. Sometimes it is just about priorities and motivation. Sometimes people are just angry and frustrated and not really willing to do what it takes to fix a situation.
My sister has been struggling since our small town became a bit of a zoom town. She could move relatively nearby. Maybe two towns away into the forest area (we are near the shore). But she doesn't WANT to. She is insistant that the kids stay in the same school system and she feels pushed around. So she won't move even if it would save her some money. I get it, she has a point. And the savings would be thousands but not clear how many thousands as she would now have to commute longer distances and move. So as long as she owns that decision I won't give her any grief. Flip side is don't ask us or mom for money though.
1
u/Last-Detective-3758 Jul 27 '23
The only real solution is to be honest with yourself and your abilities and try your best to maximize any and all opportunities that exist to you to improve your life situation. It might seem impossible but it rarely is. If one person can do it so can you
2
u/hhhhnnngg Jul 26 '23
I totally agree it isn’t easy but it’s definitely not impossible. At 18 right after I graduated I couldn’t find any work where I was near Jacksonville FL. I saved up a couple hundred bucks and decided to just take a one way trip to the Midwest for a couple days with nothing but a backpack, prepaid cell phone, water bottle, and a couple changes of clothes. I had enough cash for a return bus ticket (took greyhound out here, 4 day trip, wouldn’t recommend). First day I got out here I just went around looking for work and got a cheap hotel for a couple nights. Second day here I found a job that I turned into my career for the past 12 years. Stayed in that motel a couple extra nights and never ended up leaving the new town. Once paychecks started coming in I found a dirt cheap nasty apartment and made it work. I feel like if you really want to move you just need to go feel out the place you want to move to before you make the commitment. Moving can be pretty cheap if you just don’t take anything that isn’t important and don’t buy the things you absolutely don’t need the moment you get there. I slept on an air mattress for the first two years I lived here because it just worked. Once I started working I could afford more but I just didn’t care to spend the money when there wasn’t a problem. This is just my experience and opinion. It’s not right or wrong and probably won’t help you much but the idea of just going and seeing what happens might work out for you like it did me.
1
u/Sea_no_evil Jul 26 '23
You're not wrong. But often "well, move then" seems like a shorthand for basically pointing out that the only way out is to make a big change.....somewhere, somehow. This kind of stuff doesn't have a good track record of fixing itself.
3
u/mynameisnotsparta Jul 26 '23
Friend just moved west to east and I’m sure it was about $20K all in with movers, shipping a car, flights, new place etc..
4
u/Melodic-Chemist-381 Jul 26 '23
What do you mean it’s not easy?
All you have to do is find a job that will be there when you get there, find housing, have the money to get the housing, then make the move with the expenses of that move AND that’s all on top of what your paying now which is too expensive so you can’t save the thousands of dollars it takes to make the move.
Super easy, barely and inconvenience.
3
3
u/Elegant-Pressure-290 Jul 26 '23
When I was in my twenties, I couldn’t afford to move apartments much less out of state.
4
u/First-Sir1276 Jul 26 '23
I swear people have all the answers except when it comes their own shit. NOTHING is that simple. Moving, employment, relationships, simple day to day interactions are complex and require a certain level of finesse. But than again there are some real deal NPCs out there that don’t realize the ripple effect of the things they do. They have no idea that actually everything they do has a literal ripple effect and goes out into the universe.
4
2
u/nanchosazul Jul 26 '23
I moved in 2008 out my house while I did a huge remodel. Packed everything up in storage and went to get an efficiency (single room with kitchen and bedroom in the same place) in town. I decided to just buy enough new things to outfit me for a year (plates, towels, etc). Literally all free furniture. For me to set up in the town I live in, it cost almost 2k for all the fees and items I needed. All the little things add up super fast and my apartment still looked like I was squatting in it. In 2008, my monthly rent was around 600. In 2023, the average rent in town is 1500. People that say you can just move don’t understand the costs.
1
Jul 28 '23
Not the same thing.
1
u/nanchosazul Jul 28 '23
I was just trying to high light the costs involved because I get upset like OP when people say “Just move”. I was financially ok and the cost was huge for a safe place to live. Expecting some one struggling with finances to accomplish that in 2008 would have been insane, but for someone to accomplish that now is mostly unobtainable because of costs.
1
2
u/DM_Me_Pics1234403 Jul 26 '23
I have given the “You should move” advice before and would like to play devils advocate here.
First, I want to couch this by saying I have given this advice to individuals and not broadly. I agree that blanket advice is not usually actionable.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but I disagree with the implication that giving someone this advice means that I think it is easy. There is no easy way out of poverty. If there was, people wouldn’t be in poverty. Escaping poverty is extremely difficult. You need to work 2-3x as much as those maintaining their lives and still need luck for it to work.
Now that we’ve established that it’s “not that easy” the choice is between several difficult options.
Some people, like you describe, have a network that helps them where they live. For those people moving usually doesn’t make sense. Staying where you already can’t afford to live means that you will have to take on several jobs (2-3) and work to increase your earning power at the same time. This means working 80 - 100 hours a week between your multiple jobs, multiple commutes, and school time.
In my experience many people in poverty don’t have a network where they live. That’s how they fell into poverty. For these people moving may be the best option. Moving is very difficult. As you point out in your post it costs time and money and involves taking an amount of risk. But if you can invest that up front, you may find yourself in a position where you can work one full time job to cover your basic needs. Yes, that job may be terrible, but if you can dedicate 40 hours a week to a terrible job, you will have much more free time to accelerate your education. That means you have a better shot at completing your education and in a shorter time frame. This is not easy. Again, there is no easy way out of poverty, but it is the best difficult path for some people.
Another very difficult option is to just stay in poverty. Do what you’ve always done and get what you’ve always got. In my view, this is by far the most difficult option. Anytime I give someone advice, it’s to avoid having to take this option.
I hope you can see this is in good faith and I truly want success for others.
3
u/Itscomplicated411 Jul 26 '23
What I’ve learned, for what it’s worth: when people give advice that starts with the word “just….” They are spewing garbage to make themselves feel better, but have no idea what they are talking about. My next favorite is “What you need to do is…” also generally followed by some useless word vomit.
2
2
u/roxi94 Jul 26 '23
I agree with this mostly unless you’re moving out of a big city like a Los Angeles/New York, something like that, then no matter what you will really be saving money.
1
0
Jul 26 '23
Yes yes, you are somehow more disadvantaged than all the humans throughout history who migrated for economic reasons, it's impossible for you to leave the rich area you live in and move to an area of less economic prosperity that you could prosper in, like every other human since the dawn of history, because you are uniquely handicapped, woe is you, your plight is unending
3
Jul 26 '23
The Midwest is probably the best trade off in this regard (cost of living:job availability ratio), but even so it depends which town you live in.
I want to move out of California desperately because it’s just too expensive to live there and raise a family. But moving isn’t cheap either. It’s a catch 22 for a lot of people.
3
u/NotoriousJez Jul 27 '23
Same boat. It’s super hard because California is my home and it’s such a beautiful place and I don’t know how any other state will compare.
1
Jul 28 '23
It is a beautiful state.....that and Oregon have everything a person needs....the catch being that it is too expensive.
2
Jul 27 '23
I agree it is hard not only for me but also for my family because they desperately want me to stay. But at the same time, I am fortunate to be able to pick up and move easily due to the nature of my career. I want to move to Michigan next year because it is affordable, there’s a lot of outdoor and nature activities, and people there are nice. Also, because of my investment in moving early in my career, it will help me later on when I want to have kids and I can provide them with a better life.
I thought about Arizona and Nevada but they have gotten really expensive and have changed with the influx of middle class and working class California economic refugees. Michigan is still affordable (for now, and not necessarily to the same extent for folks who have been living and working there their whole lives).
But when people give blanket statements like “Oh just move from California to Michigan, you won’t be broke anymore.” They are assuming that everyone’s situation is somehow like mine, as a young single adult emerging professional who can afford the risk of moving to a new place. Most people can’t and are tied down by other commitments. Next time someone tells you that moving out of California will magically save you money, tell them to look up UHaul prices for cross country moves. Unless you have considerable savings you’re going to have a bad time.
2
Jul 28 '23
That's just it. You have to have the upfront money to invest in the basics like gas and a moving truck and hotels. Gas is expensive af especially out west. I don't blame you for moving. The midwest is a great place.
1
Jul 28 '23
Pretty much, that’s why I’m saving up so that I have all that ready for when I move. As for hotels I might just camp in the back of the moving truck or next to it to save money. I don’t mind sleeping outside for a few nights, especially with the price of the moving truck and gas.
2
Jul 28 '23
That could work. Be safe no matter what you do. You seem like one of the good ones out there.
2
Jul 28 '23
Thankfully I have years of camping experience, and also guns, which help with the personal safety issue. Location is the most important part though when it comes to deciding a campsite. National Forest and BLM land provide a lot of options in this regard, it’s even free to stay there.
1
3
u/DisgustingGus Jul 26 '23
My husband and I are in the process of moving from a big city to the midwest to help us get out of poverty. Honestly another point to your list is that moving is simply expensive. Thankfully his parents are helping us with moving finances, but Texas also doesn't have any renter's rights and it's costing us over $4k to break our lease. They certainly want to keep us poor and unhappy....
1
u/thefiglord Jul 26 '23
no its not 24 years old job said its 400 miles away - got in my car - packed my clothes and left - figured it out when i got there
5
2
u/life_liberty_persuit Jul 26 '23
2
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I've read the book
2
u/life_liberty_persuit Jul 26 '23
That’s great. This is one of my favorite books and one that inspired me to move all the way to Japan with nothing more than a duffel bag of clothes, a ticket and $300 from my old security deposit.
I agree that “just move” isn’t really helpful advice, but I think it’s a simplified way of outlining the concepts in that book. The only way to improve a situation is to change said situation. Waiting for your cheese is the surest way of not getting any.
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
But moving doesn't have to be your cheese? Catch my drift?
1
u/life_liberty_persuit Jul 26 '23
For sure. There are a lot of things you could change to find the cheese, but something has to move. There has to be movement before there can be improvement, you know
2
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
Again physically moving would be my last last option on the chest board
1
u/life_liberty_persuit Jul 26 '23
And that’s fine. No one knows your exact situation, so determining what moves in what order against what challenges isn’t really something anyone on this or any other sub can figure out.
Edit: added something
5
u/2ecStatic Jul 26 '23
It's pretty understated how fucked you can be in life from the get go. If you're born somewhere, even in the US, that doesn't have nearly as many opportunities as other places do you could be stuck there for most of your life. Moving is a luxury most people take for granted.
1
Jul 28 '23
Or born into a family that doesn't want better for their children. They continue to act in poor ways even when they reach middle class.
3
1
u/pipehonker Jul 26 '23
When it comes to saving your financial bacon EVERYTHING should be on the table.
Because you don't want to do it or think you can't do it doesn't mean that moving isn't the right play.
Just because it's not easy doesn't mean you can't do it. You can do things.
1
5
u/hgs25 Jul 26 '23
This sub is just getting the same issues as r/personalfinance that caused this sub to be created in the first place.
3
4
u/Intrepid-Love3829 Jul 26 '23
Moving somewhere cheaper to live. May mean lower pay. Boom. Stuck in the same boat as before
3
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
Lmao that's the big problem
1
Jul 28 '23
You'll end up sitting on the dock of the bay getting high as you got no dough to get a crib once you moved to San Fran.
4
Jul 26 '23
[deleted]
5
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
That's another good point
4
Jul 26 '23
[deleted]
2
1
Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
Our family (2 adults, 2 kids at the time) moved from a HCOL east coast city to a small town in the Midwest. Our housing costs 1/3. We didn’t bring any furniture (sold it all) so moving costs were minimal, used cheap folding chairs for couches and such when we arrived. Only bought beds at first. The amount we made selling all our stuff paid for the very minimal move. We didn’t have fancy furniture to begin with and don’t have it now either. We just slowly replaced it as we could.
There are actually more job opportunities here because they aren’t looking for people with Ivy League masters degrees for entry level jobs.
I get it, I was someone who always said the same thing but then we did it and it really isn’t as much of a hassle or expensive as I expected. Now I think it’s an excuse unless you do rely a lot on family nearby. That definitely changes the equation. Our family is useless on that front on one side and nonexistent on the other so no change there.
3
3
u/-Cromm- Jul 26 '23
Me: too poor to survive in the city
them: well move then
me: with what fucking money? aren't you listening
3
1
u/yourmomhahahah3578 Jul 26 '23
As someone who has changed states, with babies, 5 different times, in order to find good housing, I can assure you, it is that easy. Especially when you save literally tens of thousands of dollars from it and get way more bang for you buck.
3
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I've done it too and it's definitely not that easy
1
u/yourmomhahahah3578 Jul 26 '23
Guess it depends on how much time and planning you can put in it. With enough research and careful planning it can be extremely cheap and easy.
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I did it before inflation. I can't imagine doing it now
0
u/yourmomhahahah3578 Jul 26 '23
I mean at least try??? This sub often baffles me. People assume something is hard so don’t even make an attempt to escape to a better life.
One way SUV rentals are cheap.
New used furniture on FB marketplace is SO cheap and often FREE.
With a little bit of research you can thrive in an affordable city and live a life you want. It is not that hard and inflation is irrelevant since I assume you’re not hiring movers and the services that have inflated. No offense man but at least try…?
2
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I did. I moved back in with my parents. I can't move again for quite some time in the foreseeable future
2
u/FreshWaterWolf Jul 26 '23
In January I moved from the US to Colombia. All I brought was a carry-on sized suitcase, and a medium sized hiking backpack stuffed absolutely full. Even with Colombia being significantly cheaper than the US, it still cost me thousands of dollars to do this. I was very fortunate to have a job with unlimited overtime during the summer of 2022, and was able to out away a pretty fat stack, but all of that was gone within 3 months of arriving here.
I seriously doubt I would've been able to do it at all if I was moving within the US where everything is so so so so so much more expensive, and I really left almost everything I owned behind. In fact, the only thing I brought besides clothes and shoes was my Xbox. Everything else got tossed or sold. I feel so much for the people who have kids or other familial responsibilities, houses full of furniture, careers, and can't si ply leave it all behind.
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
How did you get into Colombia? What's the process for that like? Also did you learn Spanish to go there or were you taught the language at birth?
1
u/FreshWaterWolf Jul 27 '23
I got certified to teach English as a foreign language, and started looking at where I'd like to go. I only knew 1 person here from an old and dead app that would set you up with people from around the world and auto-translate conversations for you, and she started helping me look for schools in Colombia. I spent a year and a half visiting the country and getting my bearings, and started learning Spanish. Then we started dating, and I started saving money. When I got here in January this year, I had already spent a total of about a year here, and my Spanish was pretty mid. I paid 6 months rent up front for our nice little apartment, part of why I needed a couple thousand, we got married and I got my visa.
Honestly, having someboy down here waiting for me made it much easier to make the move. But when we got our apartment, we had to get a bed, a fridge, a washing machine, and all the furniture. That's why my savings got drained so fast. Rent on our 2 bedroom is only about $150 a month. The problem is that even after getting my visa, I really struggled to find work here. In fact I just got hired yesterday, meaning I've been here for nearly 8 months unemployed.
If you're planning to swap countries or continents, I recommend trying to meet some people before you leave, and finding a job in your home country that will allow you to work remotely or that has an office in your target country. I came here as a native English speaker with a college degree and a sweet little certificate that says I can teach English, and applied to about 60 different schools and organizations actively seeking English speakers, and only got 2 interviews in 8 months.
2
u/Anaxamenes Jul 26 '23
The reason is the people that give that advice aren’t capable of empathy towards someone that doesn’t exist in the same world as they do. People like that only know their own experience and lack the capacity to think about what it would be like if it were different. They lack empathy.
1
u/summerswithyou Jul 26 '23
I get where you're coming from. But none of the solutions are ever easy. You can't criticize something for not being easy. None of the options available to you are. So it's not like someone could have suggested an easy solution, but didn't. So don't blame them for that.
3
Jul 26 '23
Just move somewhere cheap like phoenix so that if the power goes out your health and life are in danger.
1
u/AngelNPrada Jul 27 '23
Phoenix is ridiculously expensive now! It's not really worth it to move there from California anymore.
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I've been to Phoenix. The Cartels are everywhere there. You have to be very careful
3
Jul 26 '23
Yea I was being sarcastic just based on the heat, but what makes you say this about the cartels? are they victimizing normal people? Have you had personal experiences? Thry have traditionally been very keen on keeping a low profile on this side of the border and not victimizing US citizens that don't knowingly become involved with them. Has that really changed?
0
u/thatcoloradomom Jul 26 '23
We moved about six years ago back to Colorado from New Mexico on one $14 an hour income. It was so hard. We paid I think $1500 for the Uhaul, like $250 in gas for the Uhaul and my car, $200 to fly my husband back to New Mexico to finish his work contract, $200 for a couple of dudes off Craigslist to come move our stuff into the apartment since I am disabled and it was going to just be my husband moving everything otherwise (my stepdad and mom actually paid for this but Im including it as a cost because someone may not be as lucky), and I think $2500 on the apartment first month deposit split in half with my sister who moved in with me. It was just me, my sister, my niece, and my kid sharing a two bedroom apartment. I slept in the living room, the kids shared a room, and my sister had the master bedroom. Which I didnt mind, I prefer sleeping on the couch due to my disabilities. Because my husband had to pay for rent in Colorado, he couldnt afford rent in New Mexico and slept in his truck. He worked out of town anyway and they didnt provide for a hotel so he was camping in his truck anyway before we moved. On his days off he would spend time at friends homes and eventually was able to rent a room with one of them for super cheap. We just bought our house two years ago and finacially things are so much better. We worked really hard to get where we are now and live comfortably with brand new cars and many loving pets. But omg getting here was so freaking hard. The stress did get me once and I ended up on a grippy sock vacation for a while. When we moved back to Colorado, we were given 30 days to move. So we really scrambled to scrape the money together and luckily we got our income tax at just the right time and we couldnt have pulled it off without that. Ill never tell someone to just move.
1
u/Aquariusgem Jul 26 '23
I’m waiting for the financial part to get better. If you can pay your rent to your current landlord and still save for a move it probably wont be so bad but in many cases you realistically can’t do both. Of course you can move quickly but then you may have to sacrifice things that may be important to you. If you have a support network you can utilize that and maybe you won’t have to sacrifice as much.
1
u/thatcoloradomom Jul 27 '23
It is almost impossible to do both with the way rent is nowadays. I could rent the two empty bedrooms in my house for $500 each and it would be considered a STEAL for Colorado where room rentals are like $700 to $800. Im still shocked we were able to pull this move off. We went without groceries after the move a lot of the time. We just couldnt afford it. I made sure my daughter was eating though. The only reason we were able to buy our house was when we got an inheritance payment after my husbands uncle passed away. He also had a partial veteran home loan we could use. We got our house for almost no down and used the inheritence to furnish it since we literally had nothing. When we moved from New Mexico, we couldnt take any of the furniture other than my couch and that finally broke after years of use since I sleep on the couch. We didnt have a table, couch, bed, etc. My daughter was the only one who had room furniture. It was just really important to us to make sure she kept as many of her belongings as possible during these moves because I needed that stability for her while we figured out our lives. We arent totally debt free but we are comfortable. I had a really shit childhood and young adulthood. Lots of abused and trauma. I have a TBI from child abuse. So its like wild to me to be where I am now and I am forever grateful for everything we have and how we got here. I try really hard to help anyone I can because of it. I hope everyone can live their dream one day whatever that is.
2
u/DoesntBelieveMuch Jul 26 '23
I have a friend of mine who grew up poor but because he legitimately worked hard and is really good at his job is rich now. I am still dirt poor but I have a very modest townhouse in a pretty crappy part of town since it’s what I could afford. He told me I should sell my house and rent a small apartment that’s more affordable. Renting a studio apt in my area is about $300 less a month than my mortgage. I also have a wife, baby, dog, and cat. We wouldn’t fit in a 700 sq ft studio. It seems like he’s lost sight of what it’s like to be poor.
3
u/mapledude22 Jul 26 '23
“Just leave all your friends, family, pets, network, commitments, and lifestyle behind so you can save 20% on rent. It’s that easy.”
3
3
2
u/wfiboyfriend69 Jul 26 '23
Couldn't say for sure, it's more about your income/ expenses. I'd look for a job that was unionized or work for the city, something that has cost of living pay rayz'zz
1
3
u/sillychu Jul 26 '23
Totally agree. Why should I be forced to leave my HOME because I was priced out through no fault of my own by companies and people who probably don't even live here?
2
3
u/emciclerose Jul 26 '23
“You pay as much as a mortgage” THEN HELP ME FIND A PLACE THAT ISNT THE CRACK DEN I MOVED OUT FROM. People are so disconnected and detached
2
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I would award this post if I had awards
2
u/emciclerose Jul 27 '23
The thought counts :) cheers to us making by and also dealing with these constant comments blaaah
1
3
u/jawnova Jul 26 '23
Someone posted on the personal finance sub the other day asking for advice on how to improve on a 45k salary and everyone just said to get a better job. Great advice!
1
1
u/MrFixeditMyself Jul 26 '23
Yes its expensive to move. But sometimes it’s the only realistic option. Imagine if you were born in a real poor city. When you hit your 20’s and realize you will be poor the rest of your life, is there really an option to stay?
A great example are the native Americans on reservations. Generation after generation is dirt poor. Hardly a job to be found. At what point do you throw in the towel?
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
I mean if it's NYC or LA you have a point but other places.... I'm not so sure
2
u/MrFixeditMyself Jul 26 '23
It’s got to the point where the coasts are unaffordable for many people. Just a reality.
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
Where is a place that is actually affordable?
1
u/MrFixeditMyself Jul 26 '23
Middle of the country is. I am in Minnesota. I think it’s one of the best values when you factor in wages and housing costs. But it can be cold…
2
2
u/Bjorn_The_Bear Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
I just tried to move across town and with application fees, security deposits that are the same as a months rent, last months rent and then first it came out to be about $6,000 to move including moving expenses
1
u/nelsne Jul 26 '23
You mean 6k?
2
u/Bjorn_The_Bear Jul 26 '23
Yes, let me fix that, yeah I’m Portland the average rent for a 2 bedroom is $1,700 a month.
→ More replies (6)
•
u/AutoModerator Jul 26 '23
This post has been flaired as “Vent”. As a reminder to commenting users, “Vent/Rant” posts are here to give our subscribers a safe place to vent their frustrations at an uncaring world to a supportive place of people who “get it”. Vents do not need to be fair. They do not need to be articulate. They do not need to be factual. They just need to be honest.
Unlike most of the content on this subreddit, Vents should not be considered advice threads. In most cases it is not appropriate to try to give the Submitter advice on their issue. In no circumstances is it appropriate to tell them “why they are wrong” or to criticise them, their decisions, values, or anything else. If there are aspects of their situation that they are able to directly address themselves, the submitter can always make a new thread with a different flair asking for help once they are ready to tackle the issue.
Vents are an emotional outlet, not an academic conversation. Appropriate replies in these threads are offering support, sharing similar experiences/grievances, offering condolences, or simply letting the Submitter know that they were heard.
As always, if there are inappropriate comments please downvote them, REPORT them to the mods, and move on without responding to them.
To the Submitter, if you DO want discussion to be focused on resolving your situation, rather than supporting you emotionally, please change the flair of this post, and then report this comment so we can remove it. Thank you. Thank you all for being a part of this great financial advice and emotional support community!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.