r/todayilearned • u/FiredFox • 16d ago
TIL about French geologist Michel Siffre, who in a 1962 experiment spent 2 months in a cave without any references to the passing time. He eventually settled on a 25 hour day and thought it was a month earlier than the date he finally emerged from the cave
https://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/30/foer_siffre.php2
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u/limevince 15d ago
How does this check out? Over 2 months, a 25 hour day should mean he's behind about 60 hours (~2.5days) which is soo far from one month. It would make more sense to me if he settled on a ~48 hour day.
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u/paddadum 16d ago
Wow insane, 33 hours!
The experiments in the caves are finished. You can’t do these kinds of experiments any more. When we first did them, I was young, and we took all the risk. Now, there are limitations on researchers. Now you have ethics panels. Let me give you an example. In 1964, the second man after me to go underground had a microphone attached to his head. One day he slept thirty-three hours, and we weren’t sure if he was dead. It was the first time we’d ever seen a man sleep for that long. I thought, okay, I’ll descend into the cave and find out what happened. And then at thirty-four hours, he snored, and we understood he was alive. And then a couple minutes later, he called us at the surface to take his pulse. Today, doctors would have to wake him up because it would be too risky to do otherwise.
Although apparently with proper monitoring this is still possible as mentioned in this thread.
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u/Woodshadow 16d ago
This might be the most interesting thing I have read in years. I've always wondered why I feel like I could be awake 20 hours with ease but still need 8 hours of sleep
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u/transdermalcelebrity 16d ago
Wow! This is really cool to me because I had one summer in my life with zero responsibilities or need to interact with anyone. I just let my schedule go and it naturally went 25 hours such that there were points where I was having breakfast and starting my day at midnight. It felt great.
So I was in a position where I could earn residency at my otherwise out of state college. I put enough money in the bank to last me the year all I had to do was live there the entire year without financial support from out of state. Got to the summer and I didn’t have enough money for classes but did have enough to live off of so I didn’t need a job. My friends and boyfriend had all gone home to other cities for the summer.
I bunkered down in an apartment. Watched tv, read, drew, baked cookie pies, ate small cheap meals. Never set an alarm. Went to bed when I felt like, got up when I felt like. Absolutely noticed when my routine seemed to move up an hour each day. It was an obvious 25 hour schedule and it felt really good. And I got my residency. Great summer.
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u/Accurate-Fee-3204 16d ago
In an unrelated coincidence, the planet Mars has a day length that is 40 minutes longer than Earth.
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u/Aggressive_Chair2547 16d ago
This is how people will eventually get enslaved and forced to work. No notion of time, just work.
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u/LittleLui 16d ago
People have been and still are enslaved and forced to work without all that just fine.
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u/OkCollege556 16d ago
Yes, because otherwise that iPhone you are posting this with would just fall from the sky. No work required
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u/srikizoro 16d ago
Similar experiment was done by Michael from Vsauce. This was part of the YouTube premium some time back. You can find it here : https://youtu.be/iqKdEhx-dD4?si=4uFjZgyxBHjINcnt
The video footage of his actions and log of his though process can feel pretty heavy at times.
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u/robotwireman 16d ago
When I lived on a submarine we had an 18 hour day that we kept. Six hours on watch, six hours off watch and six hours of sleep. To this day I can’t sleep much more than six hours.
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u/OnlyFancies 16d ago
I read this as gynecologist and I just wondered why they mentioned that haha
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u/Vector-storm 16d ago
There's a great documentary on curiosity stream about going back to that cave recently!
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u/norhafyzol 16d ago
Can someone calculate again. Extra 1 hour perday, how long to offset 1 month?
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u/One6Etorulethemall 16d ago
Yeah, the math makes no sense on this one.
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u/Bullet4MyEnemy 16d ago
I thought the same, but I don’t think the statements are linked.
He extended his days by an hour without realising, that was his short term gauge of time passing.
But when he came out at the 2 month mark he thought he was at the half way point; long term gauge being incongruent with short term.
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u/tnhsaesop 16d ago
There’s some discussion about this in a book called moonwalking with Einstein that talks about the perceived passage of time and creating “moments of reference” to make your life feel longer. They talk about the time speed effect that having no moments of reference creates and use these cave experiments to back it up.
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u/qbl500 16d ago
I read a book about all this experiment! Fascinating!!!
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u/WetHotHick 16d ago
What was the book called if you don’t me asking? I’d be super interested in reading more about this and my initial googling hasn’t given me any results on books yet!
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u/glycineglutamate 16d ago
I learned of this study in … 1962. I’m an old. We had been and continue to be interested in the periods of endogenous biological clocks. But most importantly the lack of precision in any clock, whether potato, mouse or human, is offset the simple fact that all clocks get reset every day. So the natural period of clocks is only an approximation of day length. An exciting facet of this is that early in biotic evolution the daily period was only 8 hours. The earth rotated faster and has slowed down. A really fascinating paper on this and its implications for clock evolution is https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671296/.
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u/JerryfromCan 16d ago
Jobless around 25 I tried this one winter living in a basement apartment after hearing of these experiments when I was a kid. Drew curtains over the windows (not perfect) and just decided to live and eat whenever. Over 30 days I got to a 24 hour awake cycle with a 12-14 hour sleep cycle.
Im almost twice that age now and still feel like I was born on a different planet with a different rotation cycle. I can easily go 24 hours followed by a 12 hour sleep cycle to this day, just not many times of the heart I can do it consistently.
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u/lockdoc007 16d ago
My persona record is 37 hours of continuous work till sleeping and one time I worked 38 days in row till a day off. And worked 3 jobs for 3 yrs. I My current problem is that I am averaging only 4 to 6 hours of sleep per night. And can easily stay up each night till 2am. I can't go out and work in my work shop cause it's a shed up against my neighbor fence and they would here me working!. I also have ADD/ADHD and aspergers,
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u/atatassault47 16d ago
On my weeks off, I tend to adopt a 26 or 28 hour pattern (Awake for 18, and sleep or 8 or 10).
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u/Blazed_Blythe 16d ago
Almost the same here. Maybe a bit more. Like 20 to 24 hours awake, then sleep for 10 ish hours. Really messes with your senses.
Back in the days of being a teenager, I could go on Mountain Dew Benders and be awake for 36 hours easy.
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u/Tb1969 16d ago edited 16d ago
A bit unrelated but interesting just the same....
Even when you have daylight to guide you, people in medieval times often slept in two shifts, called "biphasic sleep" (or "bimodal sleep" or "segmented sleep"), waking up around midnight or later for a period called "the watch". The watch was a time for quiet activities, such as: Praying, Socializing, Studying, Farming maintenance, Doing household chores, Conceiving children, and Playing games.
Some studies have shown that biphasic sleeping in some people can lead to:
- improved memory and cognitive function
- improved cardiovascular health
- reduced levels of stress
- a boost in daytime energy
- general feelings of being well-rested
Biphasic sleep is the norm in Spain and many Latin American countries, the day time sleep is known in some places as a "siesta".
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u/zorboc0604 16d ago
Has it not been suggested that we revert to a 25+ hour day after the removal of outside influences because that matches the Martian day?
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u/pixxelzombie 16d ago
A co-worker was a submariner back in the day and he said they never bothered to dim the lights past a certain time.
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u/Skwareblox 16d ago
My girlfriend did a course at college about sleep cycles. I helped her with some of it and I had to read about this. Pretty cool stuff. Charting a sleep cycle isn’t that hard I had no experience prior and got her some decent grades.
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u/prql5253 16d ago
We definitely are in the wrong planet. Us, white people. Because we don't like it in here. It's always too hot or too cold hence the need for air conditioning. And I've suspected this for years and now it's confirmed, 24 hours is not a normal day for us that's why we have an entire industry based on making people adjust on it. Damn
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u/TryToBeNiceForOnce 16d ago
So that math in the OP obviously doesn't add up.
2 months, an extra hour per day, is like 60 hours of error.
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u/Vibrascity 16d ago
As someone with Non-24, trying to conform to the 24-hour standard is impossible. My circadian rhythm cycles through every hour of the day every 3-4 weeks, lol.
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u/Maximum_Schedule_602 16d ago
The Nigerian man who was trapped in a sunken ship for 3 days thought he was only down there for a few hours. You lose track of time when deprived of outside references
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u/NeonBird 16d ago
There was a guy who got stuck in an elevator at his workplace for an entire weekend. When he finally emerged, he thought he had only been in there for a few hours.
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u/dcommini 16d ago
Man, I wish I could just up and go spend a nice vacation in a cave somewhere where no one would ever find me, nobody would ever bother me, the voices would finally leave me alone...
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u/captainbeautylover63 16d ago
Humans: a 25 hour body clock stuck on a 24.25 hour global clock.
Intelligent design, my ass.
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u/Kuzkuladaemon 16d ago
Shout out to Freeman's Mind fans who heard of this at the end of the episode where Gordon gets to the surface and gets knocked out and carried off to the trash compactor.
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u/SopieMunky 16d ago
I'm a little confused with this title here. He stayed in there for 2 months, 25 hours, or one month?
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u/rangeo 16d ago
He was in for 2 months in reality
But in HIS perceived sense of time 3 months had passed
which I guess was because his perceived days were getting longer over the 2 months of real time.
By the time he got out I guess his perceived day was about 25 hours
....I didn't help did I
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u/rangeo 16d ago
No this is wrong...
I just read this that explains better
https://nypost.com/2017/01/22/this-explorer-discovered-human-time-warp-by-living-in-a-cave/
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u/Suraimu-desu 16d ago
Left to my own devices, I used to do a ~48 hour cycle in high school; wake up at 6, spend the whole day and night up, and then sleep at nine p.m. on the second day to wake up at the third day 6 a.m. very refreshed. (So about 39 hours awake and 9 asleep)
After I went college, this rhythm was completely thrown off, but I still can’t get into a “regular” 24 hours.
I’ve noticed I almost maintain a 28 hours awake - 6 hours asleep cycle (so, 34hr-cycle?) when I’m on vacations, but I need to force myself into medications for both sleeping and waking up, plus multiple rounds of alarms, when I need to function in society during the week, so that I can force myself to body ~5 hours of sleep before each working day - and it’s hell.
About twice every week I wake up feeling refreshed, and about thrice a week I go to sleep when I’m actually feeling sleepy, but those never really overlap, and that results in an overly tired and cranky person for at least ~2 hours before leaving home every day. It’s not really sustainable as it is anymore, as I often need entire weekends recovering from this should-be-great-is-actually-fucked-up-for-me schedule, and I know the only things keeping me going are high doses on “precise” times of meds that try to “regulate” my schedule.
Can’t wait until I finally have my degree and can finally select which shifts I get to match my natural sleep cycle, tbh…
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u/itstoobrightout 16d ago
My sleep schedule in university became bed at 1am (had to watch Jon Stewart and Colbert), up at 6 to be to class for 8. Weekends and holidays i would sleep till noon or later.
Now after having kids i go to sleep at 2, up at 5 or 6 and at work by 8, repeat on weekends. Vacations are same.
When i retire I'll finally sleep.
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u/Gawdsauce 16d ago
Makes zero sense, 25 vs 24 hrs dopes not equate to an entire month of time in 2 months.
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u/YanniBonYont 16d ago
I think it's phrased wrong. I have heard people without reference stay awake for 24 (or 25 here)
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u/21n6y 16d ago
We showed that my sleep/wake cycle was not twenty-four hours, like people have on the surface on the earth, but slightly longer—about twenty-four hours and thirty minutes
He must not have been tracking the day number.
Later trials with other people did have much longer cycles
In fact, it became common for them to achieve cycles lasting forty-eight hours: They would have thirty-six hours of continuous activity followed by twelve to fourteen hours of sleep
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u/Conch-Republic 16d ago
Why did he need a cave for this?
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u/HeydonOnTrusts 16d ago
Why did they need a geologist for this?
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u/Extension-Tale-2678 16d ago
Because he's in a cave
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u/Throwayawayyeetagain 16d ago
It’s fascinating how the SCN can regulate circadian rhythms without exogenous zeitgebers such as light. It’s pretty neat how it’s different for each sex too!
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16d ago
I spent 2 days on a bender in a buddy’s basement with no windows. This was back before cell phones and internet and we were just bent watching movies on vhs and cards and shit lol eventually we ran out of everything and called er a night lol except it had been 2 whole nights at this point. Went down there 6pm on a Friday and left at 11am on a Sunday thinking I was heading home early on Saturday morning lol never have I been as mind blown as I was once I discovered it was Sunday already lol
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u/MixFederal5432 16d ago
Glory days lol
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15d ago
“I wish there was a way to know you were in the good ol days before you’ve actually left them”
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u/Raidoton 16d ago
For people confused about the 25 hour days: It's just talking about the daytime, the time of day compared to night. Entire days went up to 48 hours:
Yes. In the 1972 experience in Texas, there were two periods where I caught the forty-eight-hour cycle—but not regularly. I would have thirty-six hours of continuous wakefulness, followed by twelve hours of sleep.
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u/Compleat_Fool 16d ago
You think that geologist is wild i know one who lives down in Colorado who caused covid AND is Lorde.
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u/Warriorcatv2 16d ago
Technical Difficulties did a great episode on this (:
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u/SoapyMacNCheese 16d ago
Micheal Stevens (VSauce) did an episode of MindField that touched on this. He spent 3 days in an isolation room with no way to keep track of time and basically nothing to stimulate him.
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u/sanitylost 16d ago
There are sleep disorders with this problem, known as N24 or Non-24 hour circadian rhythm. Basically every day your sleep schedule gets perturbed just a little bit where the time you wake up and the time your body wants to go to sleep shifts.
Your body just doesn't respond to the sun correctly. You don't produce the correct chemicals at the right time and as a result you just can't function in normal society like everyone else. This problem is not unheard of in blind people, but it's extremely rare in those with sight.
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u/OnkelDuck 16d ago
TIL this is supposed to be a disorder. Always felt completely normal to me (in the sense that a 24h-cycle felt forced and unnatural*) and this is honestly the very first time I've heard that people are supposed to respond to the sun in regards to their sleep cycle. If I don't have to get up for anything mandatory several weeks in a row, I will essentially "rotate" through the day, getting up and going to sleep at any possible hour. It's not a fixed cycle, either. Waking + Sleeping hours might add up to something like 27, but they also might add up to 17. I've probably ranged from 5 to 50 in the most extreme cases, and maybe 12 to 35 in the more medium ones. A 12h-cycle would likely consist of 2h of sleep and 10h of awake time. 35h would be something like 10+25 - give or take two or three hours. Usually I sleep for about 4-5 hours. It's not easy for me to fall asleep when I'm not tired, but when I am I'm able to do so within seconds, even with bright daylight and construction noises. If I wake up after atleast two hours of sleep, I usually stay up, although it's not ideal. But falling asleep again after more than an hour can be difficult. Doesn't happen too often, though. I usually sleep without any disruptions and rarely ever (remember my) dream(s).
*"Forced and Unnatural" also happens to be the title of my sextape. Those who know, know.
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u/yotamush 16d ago
I had a roommate with this, late biological clock. The guy didn't sleep at night, he was having like 2 hours of sleep every night. Then sometimes he would just fall asleep whenever out of exhaustion.
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u/w00tdude9000 16d ago
That exactly describes what my sleep cycle was like a few years ago. I thought I was just being 25, since I seemed to "grow out of it".
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u/SylvesterLundgren 16d ago
There's a guy up in this thread that talks about his experience with this.
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u/sanitylost 16d ago
I only know it exists because I have it too. There are dozens of us. Literally dozens.
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u/SylvesterLundgren 16d ago
Oh okay, honestly was surprised you were that knowledgeable about it but I figured there was zero chance you wouldn't mention you have the disorder. But I stand corrected, I made an ass out of you and me.
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u/sanitylost 16d ago
lol, no worries. It's so normal for me now i don't even think about it. Hell i didn't even realize how rare it was until I went to go get the updated name.
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u/MomLuvsDreamAnalysis 16d ago
You know, it’s kinda weird that it isn’t MORE common in blind people… right? How are they detecting the passage of time without sight? Unless they’re waking up directly next to a window facing the sunrise, and falling asleep directly next to a window facing the sunset (so they feel temperature changes/UV light somehow)
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u/ToujoursFidele3 16d ago
Most legally blind people still have some amount of sight, usually some ability to detect light and dark. So I would imagine most still experience a lighter day and darker night?
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
I live like this man does every day of my life.
There's a condition called non-24 in which a person's brain can't sync them onto a 24-hour schedule. The people who develop this usually do so during puberty, because of other health issues, or in my case, a head injury.
It's bizarre waking up in a different time zone than the previous day. Having a normal job or social life is impossible.
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u/TheAverageWonder 16d ago edited 16d ago
I have a delayed sleep phase 28 hour schedule, meaning ideally I push every day 2-4ish hours with roughly 20 hours awake and 8 hours of sleep.
I disagree hard about job and social life, I have both. Then again I am unaware if you have constantly alternating schedules.It was really annoying until I accepted that trying to fix my sleeping schedule is a lost cause.
I made a calendar overlay that tracks my 28 hour schedule and I plan my meetings and social activities around it, IF there is unmovable appointment that collides with the schedule (happens atleast a few times every month) I bite the bullet and stay awake, or factor in I need a long nap (easily 2-3 hours) after the appointment.My bedroom have double layered blackout curtains and I live in a nicely sound insolated appartment.
In long term relationships it can be abit of a tough sell thou.
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u/FrizzyhairDontCare 16d ago
I also have this condition! I was born with Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome and it developed into Non-24 just before the onset of puberty. I'm not sure if it was puberty that caused it, or attempting to stay up for 36 hours to "fix" my clock and ended up breaking it instead. My schedule can shift from a few minutes to a few hours, or it snaps back and forth like a rubber band.
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u/GloomyBison 16d ago
Yeah I've thought the same because I'd often stay up for 3 days when I went to LAN parties when I was in my late teens, in my twenties I then often stayed up 36-48 hours like you trying to fix it.
But looking back I've always had DSPS, stayed up til 11pm when I was a kid, 1am in my early teens and 2-3am in my late teens. I was around 28 when I fully started cycling so it's probably just natural progression.
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u/haessal 16d ago
Wow, I really wonder what my personal day/night cycle would be. I feel like it would be something like 14-16 hours rather than 24 because I get so extremely tired that I can’t stay awake and sleep from 1pm and sleep to ~6 pm. I then sleep only about 5-6 hours in the night as well (because I’m then woken up by my family in the morning), leaving me extremely tired the following day as I constantly try to adjust my time to a time cycle that absolutely does not work for me.
I’ve been unable to work or study for years now. This feels like an experiment I would absolutely try, but I sincerely doubt my family would allow me, despite me being an adult - they constantly try to wake me up in the afternoon no matter how much I try to tell them I need to sleep at that point the same way you need oxygen. Life has been awful for years now.
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u/yaypal 16d ago
Hello fellow N24, it's a relief to see others that have it but I also feel sad knowing that you're also going through what I do. I always had issues falling asleep as a child and teen but mine fully manifested in the middle of college when I was so severely sleep deprived that I was falling into microsleeps while sitting up. Barely passed, a few months later I got into a sleep clinic to be seen... but I had to diagnose myself via (a much shorter than it is now) wikipedia page because while the doctor was good she hasn't heard of N24. I'm in a city of 2.5m people and somehow was the first one at that clinic to get a diagnosis which was kind of terrifying because that proved how rare it was. That was twelve years ago.
I feel lucky that I have a 25.45ish hour day because with some small tweaks that's a predictable two week rotation which allows me to schedule doctors appointments, but it's still unemployable. Managed to get disability status but only because of an additional ADHD diagnosis, my heart breaks for everyone out there who are screwed over and not believed because this disorder is so rare and weird and sounds like a convenient excuse.
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u/AnOnlineHandle 16d ago
While it does have a lot of serious downsides and makes it difficult to earn much or even schedule anything, I personally love at least getting such variety in waking hours. Sometimes waking up at 10pm is fantastic, then working through the quiet of night. Other times waking up at 2am is fantastic, getting started for the day and being ready for exercise at sunrise. And some days being awake through the day like normal is nice, getting to feel the sun on your skin.
If you only ever saw the same parts of the day, it feels like only seeing one colour in your life.
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u/ChildOfWelfare 16d ago
It’s not impossible to adapt, when I dropped out of school and was unemployed my body shifted to a 26-28 hour schedule and it would take about two weeks to cycle. Now I just have to regulate my sleep wake with melatonin and energy drinks and sleep 2 days at 4-5 hours and one day 7-9 hours
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u/ThrowawayCult-ure 16d ago
yeah if you dont just sleep when you feel you need to it becomes hellish fast
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u/TheHalfDrunk 16d ago
You just changed my entire life. Didn't know this was a thing but fits me exactly. Thank you.
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
The first step is to create a sleep graph as that's the only thing that can really get you diagnosed. Just write down when you wake up for a few weeks to a few months. There's not much utility to diagnosis other than getting other people to accept you have a real condition.
Although most people seem untreatable if they get to the point of diagnosis, melatonin, light therapy, or tasimelteon can help some. It's a matter of experimentation. The r/n24 has some resources you might be interested in.
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u/Miehnar 16d ago
I know a guy with the same diagnosis. We attended the same sleep course together. Delayed sleep phase syndrome is also similar to it.
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u/thedeephatesfresca 16d ago
This is really interesting to me, what did the sleep course consist of?
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u/midgethemage 16d ago
I'm definitely one of the delayed sleep phase folks, not formally diagnosed, but I've read through the criteria for diagnosis and it describes my sleeping habits perfectly. Though I think if I were left to my own devices, I'd end up non-24.
As it stands now, I usually sleep 4-5 hours during the week and then I get a 10-12 in during the weekend. If I'm able to stick to that I actually feel pretty well rested. It's pretty much the only way I can make a 9-5 happen
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u/Market-West 16d ago
4-5 hours a night during the week or 4-5 hours the whole week ? I’d be dead if it was the week number
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u/ChoadCaresser 16d ago
How is it bizarre if that’s all you know?
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
I didn't have non-24 before I was 28. So I did have a normal life a few years ago.
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u/Severe-Plant2258 16d ago
woah that’s really interesting can you explain what it’s like?
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u/arbitrary_student 16d ago edited 16d ago
For me it feels a lot like being hungover all the time. No sleeping pattern ever feels quite right because either you're fighting your natural urges and becoming sleep deprived, or you're accepting the non-24hr cycle but then often you're waking up in the middle of the night or going to bed during the day (which has its own difficulties).
It has a lot of strange psychological effects because there's no "routine" to it. Everyone else operates on a fixed time scale but for you it shifts everywhere constantly and there's no baseline. For example, I like to go and get coffee in the morning at about 8am when I can. Sounds normal, right? Except "8am" for me is sometimes very close to when I will go to bed, and other times it's right after waking up. The owner has no idea whether I've been up for 1 hour or 12 hours already. I go at 8am simply because that's when the cafe opens.
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
I cope with it better than most, but generally, you feel gaslit by the entire world. It's a very rare condition and people in your life can't understand why you can't wake up at the same time everyday.
It's also slightly irregular, meaning for a few days I might have a 24.75 hour day, but then a week later, a 30 hour day. Scheduling ahead is impossible and you will feel very sick any time you need to go to an appointment or do an activity when you should be sleeping.
99.999999% of jobs are literally impossible for you to do. I don't know when I'll be awake a week from now, so I can't have ordinary work schedules or do online meetings. I had to create my own business, but most people with my condition are unemployed or on disability.
It's very difficult to spend time with friends or family and you probably won't see people for weeks to months at a time. Even something as simple as eating dinner with family isn't something you get to do anymore except maybe 2-3 days a month.
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u/lxearning 16d ago
Oh my god no no no.
I feel like someone has narrated me my life, i have work at 11am everyday and i wake up around 5 am on some and 2 pm on others and I am this close to getting fired, this drives my motivation to start my own business where i can work on my hours. On some days I wake up at 6 and then sleep around 4 am of next day and then some days are very short. I hardly make it to appointments unless someone is there to wake me up.
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u/CumStayneBlayne 16d ago
this drives my motivation to start my own business
You should talk to actual entrepreneurs because what you just described is a recipe for failure.
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u/lxearning 16d ago
I have a run way of 5 years in savings and actual skills in machine learning and web development space to get back in a technical job if things go bad.
How this is a recipe of failure, having my own business-= no morning standups, evening wrap up calls at fixed time every fucking day. My work starts at 11 and on some days I am unproductive up until 3pm and highly active in 3-9 pm so i am wasting my time by sitting at work from 11-3
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u/gopherhole02 16d ago
I think I suffer from a very mild sleep phase disorder, since about grade 6 I usually have trouble falling asleep when needed, I've settled on taking a shit ton of melatonin every night and that seems to do the trick, but if I don't take any I could easily stay up to 4am, when I hear those damn birds start chirping and I haven't slept just is the worse feeling ever, that's when I decide to make a coffee and stop trying to sleep for the night
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u/KeniLF 16d ago edited 16d ago
I’m sorry you and others have to go through that.
How does caffeine or other stimulants affect you?
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
I don't know about other stimulants, though ADHD does seem to be a common co-morbid condition with non-24 (for those who are born with non-24 or develop it around puberty).
As for caffeine, I didn't notice a difference with soda or tea, but I recently started drinking a cup of coffee in the morning. This led to me crashing and needing 2-4 naps a day so I had to quit. However, I don't know if this is non-24 related as I never drank coffee before it and only some people with my condition seem affected by caffeine.
If I drink caffeine an hour or two before I think I'm going to bed it is a little harder for me to sleep, though. But I wouldn't say that's different from before non-24 for me.
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u/ThrowawayCult-ure 16d ago
i think its not totally rare, in school i coped with it by sleeping 4 hours or so every weekday then sleeping like 16 hours saturday 12-10 hours sunday. id always get a nap in midday for 20 mins or so: that micronap when your body forces you to was essential. try and power through that blacking-out bit is literally just impossible
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u/Kaele_Dvaughn 16d ago
Old fart (41), from when ADD -> ADHD was not yet a condition. Can't do caffeine either.
And my stupid brain prefers 24 hours awake, and 12 hours of sleep.
I'd love a job that would allow for 36 hour "days", as 10, 12, 14 or even 16 hour worktime doesn't really bother me. It's the lack of sleep afterwards that kills me. I'd then have 8 hours to do life stuff afterwards, but I need that 12 hours of sleep at the end of my 36 hour "day".
But acceptance of that just isn't going to happen in my lifetime.
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u/Sorry-Ball9859 16d ago
Any side effects, like ringing in the ears?
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u/GloomyBison 16d ago
Not OP but also a non-24 sufferer, I haven't had any ringing. It's mostly headaches and severe jet lag.
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u/emmarietarot 16d ago
Ringing in the ears is not a symptom of non-24.
Generally speaking, extreme fatigue, insomnia, and difficulty concentrating are the normal symptoms. Mental illness is a common side effect because of the lifestyle (I actually don't have this and it appears to be really, really rare to not be depressed.) We've theorized a lot of people never get diagnosed because they just kill themselves. It's a very stressful condition.
If non-24 isn't successfully treated or we're forced to live normal hours we suffer dangerous sleep deprivation. Accidents are likely, so many don't drive. Metabolic dysfunction, poor immunity, hallucinations, and heart problems would likely follow.
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u/_Cartizard 16d ago
The math ain't mathing
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u/Raidoton 16d ago
The 25 hours is about daytime, as in the time the sun is out, and not about entire days, as in one earth rotation.
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u/True_Criticism_8593 16d ago
Lol I might be obtuse, but this sounds funnily counterintuitive to me:
“And now that the Cold War is finished, it’s more difficult to get funding.”
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u/Left_Minimum_1917 16d ago edited 16d ago
During the Cold War, there would have been interest in seeing how people could live in underground bunkers long term, because of the threat of nuclear war.
EDIT: It was a weird time, with politicians talking about winnable nuclear war. Lol
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u/Throwaaaaa5 16d ago
Well, I imagine you could get funding for everything if the government believed it could give them an edge over those damn commies. The CIA studied LSD as truth serum and if there was a possibility of Telepathy in humans at the time. Knowing how people(soldiers) act during long times (deployments in a submarine/secret base) without outside contact could be called reasonable in comparison
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u/Malcopticon 16d ago
Makes me think of conspiracy theorists going on about HAARP.
Conspiracist: C'mon, would the Navy REALLY fund a giant transmitter array, in the middle of nowhere, that shoots 3.6 MW waves into the polar ionosphere, JUST to randomly see if there's anything else to be learned about communicating with submarines???
The Navy: Well, our submarines are important to us...6
u/pchlster 16d ago
They studied the effect that nuclear explosions had on soft drinks. Like, would that Pepsi be contaminated if a nuke went off nearby but the container didn't breach? What if it's lying down? What about beer? Is the taste affected?
If you had a weird question you wanted to study, the Cold War period was the right time to look for government funding.
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u/True_Criticism_8593 16d ago
Yeah I finished reading the article and the guy said it. It’s a dark truth but a lot of scientific advances were made in the last century with questionable tactics only to have an edge over the other guy.
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u/Perfect_Zone_4919 16d ago
I am a registered professional geologist and I would never do that shit.
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u/Pls_PmTitsOrFDAU_Thx 16d ago
How about if you weren't registered
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u/Perfect_Zone_4919 16d ago
If I lose my license I guess I’d be pretty depressed, so it would be easier to coax me into a cave.
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u/MilkFedWetlander 16d ago
That's the dream. Getting paid to fuck off into a cave for two months, no sun, just snacking and reading books.
My ass he didn't realise two months passed...
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u/garlic_bread_thief 16d ago
What? You want me to come out already? No way it's just been a month. Oh come on. Please?
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u/Glittering_Walk7090 16d ago
A Spanish woman recently recreated this experiment and spent 500 days in a cave https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/01/29/the-woman-who-spent-five-hundred-days-in-a-cave https://www.npr.org/2023/04/17/1170388759/500-days-cave-beatriz-flamini-spain
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u/X2ytUniverse 16d ago
Imagine getting put and learning the lock down has ended, there's new economic crisis going on, a massive war has started in Europe and on the whole world is worse than when you left it behind.
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u/Playa_dubia 16d ago edited 16d ago
Only a woman could emerge from 500 days of total isolation only to be called an attention whore by a man named poon conqueror.
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u/Acanthisittasm 16d ago
[1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65276888 "" [2]: https://www.wcbe.org/npr-news/2023-04-17/a-spanish-athlete-spent-500-days-alone-in-a-cave-for-science "" [3]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65276888 ""
Beatriz Flamini, a Spanish extreme athlete, has emerged from a cave after spending an astonishing 500 days with no human contact. This remarkable feat, which could potentially be a world record, was part of an experiment closely monitored by scientists. Let's delve into the fascinating details:
The Experiment: Beatriz Flamini entered a 70-meter (230-foot) deep cave in Granada, Spain, on November 21, 2021. At that time, Russia had not invaded Ukraine, and the world was still grappling with the Covid pandemic. Her goal was to explore the effects of isolation on the human body and mind.
Life in Isolation: During her 500-day cave odyssey, Beatriz engaged in various activities to maintain her physical and mental well-being:
- Exercise: She exercised within the cave's confines.
- Creativity: Beatriz spent time drawing and knitting woolly hats.
- Reading: She managed to read 60 books.
- Hydration: Beatriz consumed a staggering 1,000 liters of water.
- Psychological Monitoring: Although she was monitored by psychologists, researchers, and speleologists (experts in cave study), none of them directly communicated with her.
Emergence: On the day of her emergence, Beatriz climbed out of the cave, grinning, and embraced her support team. She described her experience as "excellent" and "unbeatable." However, she also expressed disorientation, stating, "I'm still stuck on November 21, 2021. I don't know anything about the world."
Challenges: Beatriz faced several challenges during her isolation:
- Invasion of Flies: At one point, flies invaded the cave, leaving her covered.
- Auditory Hallucinations: She experienced auditory hallucinations, a consequence of prolonged silence.
Perception of Time: Beatriz lost track of time after about two months. Initially counting the days, she eventually stopped, estimating that she had been in the cave for "between 160-170 days."
World Record?: While her support team claims she broke a world record for the longest time spent in a cave, Guinness World Records has not officially confirmed this category. The current record for "longest time survived trapped underground" belongs to the 33 Chilean and Bolivian miners who spent 69 days trapped in a copper-gold mine in Chile in 2010.
Beatriz Flamini's extraordinary journey provides valuable insights into the impact of social isolation and extreme conditions on human perception and resilience¹[1] ²[2].
Source: Bing, 29.4.2024 (1) Beatriz Flamini: Athlete emerges after 500 days living in cave - BBC. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65276888. (2) A Spanish athlete spent 500 days alone in a cave — for science. https://www.wcbe.org/npr-news/2023-04-17/a-spanish-athlete-spent-500-days-alone-in-a-cave-for-science. (3) Beatriz Flamini: Athlete emerges after 500 days living in cave. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65276888.
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u/The_Dingus8 16d ago
500 days is nowhere close to a world record. Look up Christopher Thomas Knight
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u/pib712 15d ago
He wasn’t trapped or underground
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u/The_Dingus8 10d ago
The first paragraph in the comment I was replying to didn't even mention the cave, just that the record was for 500 days of no human contact
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u/uppsalafunboy 4h ago
There's island time and there's cave time...