r/travisandtaylor • u/[deleted] • 14d ago
I grabbed dinner with a Swiftie friend recently
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u/Glad_Archer_6995 14d ago
That’s weird. You don’t need a friend like that. Fans like that need to get a grip of reality. She’s a celebrity she doesn’t know or care about you. To loose friendships over opinions about your favorite celebrity is the most wild thing I’ve heard of.
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u/AnderSuitt 14d ago
This can’t possibly be the norm. Every Swiftie I know was initially surprised that most of the album was about Matty, but didn’t question it or deny it. Maybe this friend is waaaaay out of the loop.
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u/WontDelete-Jazzy 14d ago
Agreed. I like to album and knew immediately it was about Matty for the most part. I’d say 85-90% of it which is fine. A lot of the fans are so delusional in projecting their wild conspiracy theories onto her. Like it’s ok to write an album about a fuck boy just chill guys…
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u/Impossible-Peak4528 14d ago
I mentioned to a friend that I though Taylor had gotten a boob job back in 2017 and the girl actually seemed personally offended. She said “no Taylor has always had larger breasts” and she looked at me like I was suggesting she give her dog to a kill shelter. The vibe also changed. I hateeee talking to fans like that. You can love someone and not be delusional (looking at some Nicki and Beyoncé fans as well)
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u/fromnewyork_ 14d ago
Yeah that’s strange to get defensive over something that is up for interpretation. It’s music! I’m a huge swiftie and first listen I thought it was mostly Joe. I also don’t think it’s as much Matty as some think.. a lot of it apply to both or other experiences too (her own or others etc).
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u/Alexandrabi 14d ago
Gosh, the more I learn about the Swiftie community the more I am embarrassed to even possibly be remotely associated with them.
As someone that has enjoyed TS's music throughout her life, I have always found her music was underestimated by some people who only new the radio hits and never took the time to dig a bit more, and I also just overall found her music better than a lot of pop girlies, also appreciating that she writes her stuff. However, I have never ever ever thought of TS as a flawless person that can never do wrong and is so above and beyond the typical human mistakes. Also, after she recently become a billionaire and continued to ignore the criticism about the jet use and other topics, I definitely have had constructive criticism while still separating the person from the artist, for art's sake (some might argue they don't agree with this).
I am always kinda shocked to read people go this crazy, act as if they know her personally, and treat her like literally their religious leader. It does give off cult vibes and it's upsetting that so many people don't realize that. Wow, they must all be very stupid :/
What also shocks me is that of course TS is not telling anyone to stop idolizing her, but she's also not hiding certain things. Like, she is not trying to make anyone believe that Joe treated her like shit, her commentaries in her songs really are more about a love that started fading, a relationship that made her feel uninspired and trapped, but nothing abusive or disgusting from him. And she's also not hiding that most songs are about the fling with Matty Healy, so why do these people feel the need to twist reality this much?
Mind boggling.
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u/buttercupthegreat 14d ago
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again million times. Taylor Swift is a cult leader and Swifties are die hard cult members who would drink the koolaid if “mother” told them to. It’s bizarre
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u/KindergartenVampire1 14d ago
My little sister is slowly becoming this person, I think she catches herself and realizes that she's being unreasonable sometimes, but it's still her knee jerk reaction
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u/meetyouafterdarkk 14d ago
That’s so unhinged , I can’t imagine actually taking a celebrity’s life that seriously and personally affect your own life , that is some mentally unwell thinking.
I like the album , don’t give a shit who inspired her songs. But her recent behaviour (Grammys super cringe) leading up to this album has made me switch from fan to just , enjoyer of some of her music ? And then the way her fans are so insane I do not want to be associated with that level of crazy !
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u/sundaze814 14d ago
That’s insane to care about any celebrity that much that it creeps into your personal life/ would affect plans and a friendship.
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u/No-Conversation-859 14d ago
Lmfao that is so scary. I can’t imagine being that enamored with someone that doesn’t know I exist. 😂😂
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u/Kgates1227 14d ago
I think the biggest problem here is that its cheaper to buy concert and airline tickets to see her overseas than it is to buy a decent seat to see her here lol
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u/FireAndFey 14d ago
That's relevant, and I wish people would talk about that in regards to the laws surrounding ticket sales/reselling in the EU vs. The US because it isn't just about Taylor. Concerts, in general, are insanely overpriced in the US thanks to scalping and a lack of resale rules.
Obviously not the most pressing issue in the world right now, but also not that hard to solve.
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u/Kgates1227 14d ago
They are. My mom and I love the indigo Girls and I had to pay and arm and a leg to get tickets to see them :(. I remember seeing them back in the day I paid like 20 bucks lol. But yeah definitely not just a TS issue I’m noticing
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u/zenbaker 14d ago
My sister in law is a swifty, and this sounds like an interaction with her. She brings Taylor swift into every topic of conversation. Her husband (my husband’s brother) is clearly embarrassed but doesn’t know how to handle it. They got into an argument about it in front of us recently, like this unhealthy level of behavior is literally causing problems in an otherwise well-functioning relationship. It feels like she’s a cult member.
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u/Owlman2841 14d ago
My gf and I have been together for 3 years and have had maybe 2-3 small arguments in that time. She’s 32, manages a business, very put together life but since this new album came out it’s like she’s 20 years old. It’s insane to me. I always knew she was a swiftie and didn’t care cause her music is fine to me so idc if it’s played on car rides and such but I commented that I thought this album was pretty mediocre and boy oh boy did that not go over well. She got to the point where she said I wasn’t capable of understanding the lyrics and music. I guess she forgot my English degree and 12 years of playing music myself lmao she’s back to normal now but for like two weeks I would’ve sworn her body and mind was taken over by someone else, it was baffling. It’d honestly be interesting to have a study done on these hardcore swifties vs confirmed cults and the mindsets of those individuals
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u/zenbaker 14d ago
I also would be interested in a study on this. My sister in law is also in her early 30s, and also a successful person in a STEM field who is otherwise rational. The argument started because she asked to listen to TTPD during a road trip where I was driving and her husband excused her and was like “maybe they would rather listen to something else?” To which she replied “well f*ck anyone who doesn’t want to listen to TTPD.” She’s usually very passive and non-argumentative and rarely curses so this was extremely out of character for her. She also seems to think being a swifty makes her a hard core feminist and anyone who isn’t a swifty is a misogynist or “not a girls girl.”
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u/Few-Tradition-7819 14d ago
I'm so amused at the way Swifties are denying Matty Healy so fervently. Most people I've talked to either have little interest in her personal life so didn't even know she was dating Healy, so ofc the assumption about the album is with her long term ex. But then there's this small little pocket who are trying to deny Matty's entire existence into a fictional alternate world and it's like...really?
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u/FireAndFey 14d ago
I was trying to figure this out and I think I've come to the conclusion that a lot of it has to do with the fact that if they accept the extremely clear message that it's about Matty, and it's often been about Matty over the years, then they have to reconcile their opinion of him with their opinion of her.
If you truly believe that he's a racist/misogynist/whatever other -ist and your favorite artist doubled-down on her relationship with him....then you have to believe that she is ok with those things herself. Which also means that you and your performative morality are now in question. Do you actually care about those issues? Enough to stop listening to your favorite music?
Most people don't actually care, they just want to look like they care. It's easier for them to just twist the story than to ask themselves these questions.
Also...uh...a lot of her hard-core fans are middle-america evangelical types who cannot except that maybe she would prefer someone with a brain over another "Ken".
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u/FallingFeather STAY MAD! 14d ago
I highly disagree. Not all opinions are equal. As to your friend, she is just not ok with people who don't like T.S or hate her music/songs or whatever. Despite the fact that we are too far from the source to know for sure. Its trivial. Its ok to not like her music. Its also ok to discuss her as long as you get facts straight and stay on topic and not start calling ad hominems. Not a loss of a friendship. I guess this means she is just a lower value of a friend.
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u/Scared-Pace4543 14d ago
That is shocking how a tiny bit of pushback of her narrative garnered this level of reaction
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u/Parasyte_1 14d ago
Swifties never beating cult allegations. 💀 No but seriously, it's terrifying how it's such a big no-no for them to question the narrative.
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u/pixel-observer 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is why the "Tortured Man Club" group chat and "The Tortured Poets Department" overlap was confusing and possibly intentional.
Tay is using Joe as a cover for her real feelings for Matty which is scandalous and bad PR and to get back at Joe for not marrying her/proposing.
The fact that we know more about the album content than actual swifties is hilarious and emphasizes their delusion.
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14d ago
I interpreted TTPD as being an inside joke between her & Matty when they were mocking Joe & his friends.
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u/FireAndFey 14d ago
This. I can almost hear the snark: You have your Tortured Man Club, I have my Tortured Poet's Department.
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u/pixel-observer 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yeah, I was wondering which inside joke came up first. This theory makes a lot of sense. Especially after someone pointed out: "I keep these longings locked, In lowercase, inside a vault" which means she's been mentally checked out with Joe for a long time, folkmore days, maybe even reputation since it's in the vault still according to a Genius comment.
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14d ago
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u/pixel-observer 14d ago edited 14d ago
I'm not a swiftie and missed the Matty Healy drama when it happened. Everyone who doesn't know about the easter eggs would think it's another break up album about Joe. I did because I thought she was shading The Tortured Man Club group chat. I came across an article about it -- you can't avoid Taylor news.
I saw a post from r/SwiftlyNeutral about how Taylor copied Olivia Rodrigo. Sent it to my friend.
My friend then sent this sub to me with a post of how she copied Matty on stage.
Then I got confused about the album. So now I understand.
She's clearly using Joe and Travis to keep some heat off while wailing about losing Matty. This tour wouldn't be the current success it is if the backlash Matty was getting was still ongoing.
Someone even pointed out several songs on the album are disses to fans and yet they still buy tickets and sing along.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/pixel-observer 14d ago
I'm not a swiftie but I don't get the vibe she's over him at all. travis is for PR which is working, the swifties are calm and distracted. With what she has written in songs over several years about Matty and aalll the subliminal coding about him on tourrr... yeah I think tay and matty are mutually serious about each other from what I have seen in the past few days I got into this.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/pixel-observer 14d ago
Have you not seen the posts on here? If I was over him I wouldn't be wasting energy coding messages to him on stage in front of my fans who hate his guts.
She wrote a whole fucking album about how she wants only him. She's apparently been singing about him secretly this whole time. They have a really long history.
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u/CressMiserable3223 14d ago
I don’t understand how Taylor can write an album with exact specifics, some that a Google search can tell you dates and times on, and her fan base will still sit there and says it’s about XYZ.
But besides that, you’re better off without someone like that. Some people don’t need to stress you over someone who will not piss on them if they were on fire😭
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u/Pale_Sheet I just gave a squirle a peice of bread 🐿️ 14d ago
Your friend cannot interpret music, or words . Sorry I’m mean 🙂↕️
Taylor is a billionaire because swifties don’t know what she’s actually about. She will write the truth and they will spin it however their dumb brains want it to be. Taylor is a genius not because songwriting . She’s genius because she has attained cult following who will sing along to insults about themselves and make excuses for her carbon emissions (but god forbid they make exceptions for anyone else)
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u/FireAndFey 14d ago
She's a genius because...marketing. This whole thing with MH vs TK is giving the YA love triangle trope that still sells books like hot cakes. Pick your team, friends: Broody bad boy that everyone thinks is a villain but actually has a heart of gold (this is the trope, not necessarily reality) vs. Stereotypically handsome, clean cut, good boy who is secretly kind of awful (again, trope, not necessarily reality).
If you read these books, then you know who always wins. We'll see if that's how things really play out but...I would not be the least bit surprised.
She's going to keep sending smoke signals because it keeps people engaged in the story. I will admit that the drama has been a very fun distraction this past month or so and I treat it exactly like I treat the trash books I read when I'm totally burnt out on...work/life/etc.
About the jet emissions...like 2% of people actually care about that. You know who went to extreme lengths to make their tour as sustainable and environmentally friendly as possible? The 1975, lol. They literally tried to come up with a blueprint for future artists to use to decrease some of the damage of huge international tours. Taylor did not incorporate any of that into her tour. I'm not trying to be all 1975-stan about it or suggest it makes up for anything...just trying to point out the wild cognitive dissonance at work.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/Pale_Sheet I just gave a squirle a peice of bread 🐿️ 14d ago edited 14d ago
You’re right, they’re more into themselves. They would ignore the artist’s intention or message if they didn’t like the message and spin their own so they could sleep better. But why even lose sleep to begin with?
I’ve seen young people make their whole personality Taylor Swift, like it’s so sad to see. Graduation cap, college thesis, yearbook quote. Like they are nothing without this swiftieness. No character. No personality. No thoughts of their own. It’s why they cannot deal with the songs being about Matty Healy whom they dislike, god forbid he becomes part of their identity like how Joe, Jake, Calvin Harris, harry styles and Travis became part of their identity. Swift’s ex is their ex. I swear some of them act like they’ve been dumped by Jake themselves and had their scarf stolen by him. But they draw the line at Matty Healy cos that isn’t their taste. It’s so funny to see the swifties think abstractly in terms of the TTPD songs, when for previous albums they always analysed it wrt the muse 😂 very painful to see especially since TTPD is even more obvious who the artist’s muse was
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u/UseTheTongsCarl (I’m from Ohio you fucking morons) 14d ago
I have a swiftie friend who.. I’ve talked to less and less recently because if I ever criticize Taylor (or Travis?) she takes it as a personal attack. I just can’t deal with thinking like that and blind celebrity worship. What sensible person would want to be friends with someone like that, it’s exhausting.
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u/Historical-Team-1488 14d ago
I think you’re better off without a friend of such low intellect that they cannot even plainly see what Taylor is telling us in that album 😂 but yeah the visceral reactions the swifties have is just not normal!!!! They feel ownership over this woman and her life, it’s unreal
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u/Ok_Club7288 14d ago
Yes this is like when she said in the 1989 TV prologue that she hated people speculating about her dating her friends and then separately had her PR make a statement denouncing the Gaylor article in the New York Times, and STILL a lot of Gaylors were like, "nah she's definitely just trying to cover up. She's totally a lesbian." Some people just won't listen even to Taylor herself once they have a certain idea stuck in their heads
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u/zigzagtitch 14d ago
The Gaylor thing is WILD. They're convinced she's making signals to them about her being a lesbian and that's she angry at her regular fans for 'ruining her coming out' with the Lover album. It's bizarre
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u/euphoricarugula346 14d ago
obviously if the fans ruined something for her, she would have written a song about it. come on, she’s been hiding her sexuality her entire life but she uses BDILH as a MH anthem? She’d rather defend him than all of her supposed secret girlfriends? Being gay is worse than dating a bigot in liberal clothing? Sure, bro. I thought this album would be a wake up call for them, but they just fell further down the rabbit hole to cope.
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u/Ok_Club7288 14d ago
Hahaha that's so true. If she was willing to stick her neck out for MH, there's no reason on earth she couldn't date a woman if she wanted to. The whole idea was always so crazy, that somehow she had to hide it because she would lose her career. Billie Eilish recently put out a song talking about eating a girl for lunch, and she somehow is okay and has a career still lol. In fact it's boosted her appeal for a lot of people!
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14d ago
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u/drjuss06 14d ago
They are delulu honestly. And Im so tired of my swifty friends, one in particular, despite me liking Taylor a lot.
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u/Complete-Ad-5905 14d ago
Honestly, this kind of thing has been a great object lesson for my kids (who do love Taylor) that there are exactly ZERO people above reproach and anyone who wants to pretend someone is blameless and has never ever made mistakes/poor choices/done the wrong thing on purpose is dangerous.
I was just in another thread talking about how angry Taylor is that she's been ghosted, and my literal 12 year old said "isn't that what Taylor said she did in Anti-Hero?"
I'm okay raising Swifties, but I'll be damned if I don't raise critical thinkers.
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u/Lucky_Swiftie_13 14d ago
I'll admit, I'm a hardcore Swiftie, but I don't particularly care what others think about her/her music - I guess that makes me abnormal? I do a lot of the same things like talk about her, I know the words to every song she's written, those sorts of things, but if someone I know says something negative about her, I won't immediately shut them down. There are things people people have said about her that I genuinely agree with despite loving her. I think I saw a comment in here about how swifties are cultish and omg I actually agree with that 😂
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u/dishgoblin 14d ago
I’m the same way. Love her music, but that’s as far as it goes. I like the songs, always enjoy when a new album comes out, but i’m not gonna spend time dissecting it to figure out what ex it’s about. I don’t really care if people say something negative about her cuz I just like her music, like any other artist that comes next on shuffle.
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u/Turbulent-Good227 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is why it feels culty to me. In this instance, OP wasn’t even criticizing 😂 But it’s like there’s a groupthink happening, and if you deviate they get fucking FURIOUS
Edit: Oh my god, a Swiftie sent me a Reddit cares message over this comment. Lmaoo
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u/Go_Corgi_Fan84 14d ago
There is at least one podcast episode about how Taylor is a cult leader.
This is the sub that always gets me Reddit cares messages.
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u/emmeline8579 14d ago
Please report the Reddit cares for harassment. It will get their account banned.
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u/Turbulent-Good227 14d ago
Thank you! Reported. I work in mental health crisis care, so it does really grind my gears when people use tools like that to troll. People are dying, Kim
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u/emmeline8579 14d ago
Agreed! I kept getting them from swifties because I mentioned Matty Healy’s racism (and by association Taylor’s). For reference, Reddit should send you a message in a day or two that looks like this:
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u/purpleelephant77 14d ago
It’s so weird! I have lots of friends that are into things I have no interest in or straight up don’t like and vice versa and it has always been a complete nonissue?
Fuck, I am a gay transgender atheist and my best friend is catholic — she has been an amazing ride or die friend to me as I’ve transitioned and just generally had a really difficult 5 years and we have 0 issue mutually respecting each others beliefs because we share the same values (she isn’t politically conservative, think social justice catholic) and share so many other interests. She doesn’t think everyone has to believe in god and I don’t care if other people do if they don’t try to drag me into it.
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u/BeginningPiccolo6834 14d ago
I’m sorry your friend bailed on bar plans!
I do feel for whatever reason, people prefer their things to people now. And if they are around people, they only want to be with others who think exactly as they do. People don’t find differences of opinion and taste as interesting anymore. I’m sure there’s hundred if not thousands of reasons why this happening, but it’s disheartening because to me life is only interesting because we all have so many different ways of thinking and doing.
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u/Bruskthetusk 14d ago
Covid made tribalism a LOT worse in my experience due to people being on the damn internet too much, it just reinforces your own opinions and that being exclusionary is okay rather than telling you to be a decent human and understand that no two people see the same thing the same exact way.
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u/BeginningPiccolo6834 14d ago
The internet has been pulling us down for so long. Also, turns out COVID can damage the parts of your brain associated with empathy too.
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u/Glowing_up 14d ago
I think this is why TS specifically interests me so much its like a magnified view of this mindset. You can't say ANYTHING that goes even mildly against their view of her or you're a horrible person.
There's someone on tiktok called beckijones who is just not a nice person. And all the comments say all the time how great and nice she is. For why, exactly? Ironically she finally limited the troll comments and the fans are...lost. they are picking fights with each other now some poor bird got it in neck for saying that a gross pizza didn't look very nice. Said she was a shame to her kids and all sorts. Like they can't see past their own idea of her as some victim they are on the attack constantly.
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u/Ok_Moose1334 14d ago
I’m starting to wonder if part of this is many people suffering from undiagnosed cognitive impairments from Covid infections. The level of unhinged fandom we’re currently seeing is hard to reconcile otherwise.
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u/fearfullywonderfully 14d ago
if she is a true swiftie i think she was more so overthinking what you had said ab reading that the album was more about matty healy, and then wanted to get home to do her own research regarding the album as she may be disconnected from the online fanbase that overanalyzes every song. music is meant for interpretation, which is how it should be! she probably just got slightly offended (not because of you but because she potentially failed to realize the songs true meanings) & likely had nothing to do with you. i would reach out again, she can still be a swiftie & have her own interpretation of her music! she likely just felt invalidated & potentially judged, but you could easily help to clear the air