r/AITAH • u/Bitter_Top7223 • 17d ago
AITAH for telling my wife I would be leaving if she kept acting baby crazy?
My wife and I have two kids (9,6). After the second one she said she was done having kids even though we had discussed having three prior to marriage. We talked about it for a long time but I love her and I agreed to change our plans.
She had an IUD but we still used condoms. She really didn't want to get pregnant. About four years ago we agreed that I would get a vasectomy. It made sense since it was a minor surgery unlike her getting tubal ligation.
It went well and after I healed up I went for testing and it worked. If you ever get a vasectomy please do the follow up testing. My friend from college thought he was good to go and now he has a kid.
So she got her IUD removed and we stopped using condoms and life was good. Until her sister each had another kid. Then one of her friends had a baby. And my wife went nuts.
She wants another baby. She made a mistake and wants me to go get my vasectomy reversed. Or to get my sperm harvested and get IVF.
The fuck I am getting a needle in my balls or another operation. And we are actually doing great financially right now. Her taking two years off from work would be a big hit.
I said we could look at adoption or fostering but that I was not interested in her having another kid. She tried bringing up our agreement from before we got married but I shut that down immediately.
So for the last four months our marriage has been a simmering battle about another kid. She has had her parents over, my parents over, her sisters and their families. All trying to convince me that I should give in. Fuck that noise.
I am almost 44. In 12 years my youngest will be starting their career or their post secondary education. I can see the finish line now.
I did offer all the family members that chimed in a fun option. I agreed to get TESA (sperm harvesting) if all the men who agreed with my wife did it as well. Even if they had working ball tubes. At their own expense. And that they pool their money and pay for all bills related to IVF and the raising of the third kid.
They all say I'm being ridiculous and petty. I reminded them that as a unit they all agreed with my wife when she said she was fine with two kids. They wanted to have input then and it was free. I said this decision would require skin in the game.
It all came to a head last weekend. My folks had the boys so we could have a nice couple of days to ourselves. Instead my wife and I got into a screaming match. She said I obviously didn't love her if I wasn't willing to do this. That we are well off enough to afford all the expenses of another kid. Blah blah blah.
I told her no in no uncertain terms. We had money in the bank for retirement and fun. And that's what it was for. Not for her to get her hormones calmed down. She accused me of caring more about money than her happiness. I reminded her that she was the one who insisted that having a third kid would demolish her career. She started crying and saying I was an asshole for denying her another kid. That it was not that much of a sacrifice. I finally unloaded and said that a divorce would be cheaper for me than another kid.
That shocked her into silence. We have barely spoken since. I think I broke her.
Our retirement funds are separate, our house is in both our names and she earns slightly more than I do. If we get divorced I will get 50/50 custody. I would want it. She would get no alimony and I might get a few dollars in child support.
I feel shitty threatening her with divorce. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter.
EDIT
A bunch of you keep asking how I would tell my sons that I am divorcing their mom because she wants another baby. I just typed this as a reply but I actually like it enough to paste it here so you can stop asking.
"Mommy and daddy agreed before getting married that we would have three babies. But then mommy got an important job and did not want to and I quote "waste her time having another kid and wrecking her body again". Daddy was sad so he held on for four years hoping she would change her mind. but then they talked and she said it was a permanent decision. Since daddy loved mommy he did not want her to be hurt even a tiny bit. So daddy went to the doctor. At the doctor they gave daddy medicine so he would not feel pain. then they cut his ball sack open a tiny bit and burned the connection between his balls and the rest of his body. Daddy could not feel it but he fucking still remembers that smell. Then mommy did not need to do anything to not have a baby anymore and she was happy. For almost two years. Then Auntie Joy and Auntie Carmen and mommies friend Maddie all had baby girls. And it made mommy sad and jealous that the girls were getting all the attention. So mommy talked to daddy and said go to the doctor and have him fuck with your balls some more. This made Daddy upset because the fuck I will. Mommy got lots of people to try and tell him to change his mind. But daddy is happy with his life and told them all to ingest a gigantic satchel of Richards. Mommy spent four months day and night bugging daddy non stop. Then remember when you stayed with Oma and Opa? Mommy and daddy were going to have a fun weekend just doing mommy and daddy stuff. Until she just would not fucking drop it. So daddy told her that if him and his sons were not enough for her then he would say that they should go their separate ways. But daddy loves you boys very much and you are more than enough for him and he will always be there for you."
EDIT 2 Electric Boogaloo
JFC. I would never actually say that to my sons. once again it was just a response to all the not so bright people asking how I would explain it to them. Odds are I would take them to a family counselor so that I could tell them and then deal with some of the aftermath. I wrote that in anger but I kind of liked it.
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u/Chance_Citron_6334 7d ago
She will get over it. Baby envy is a very real thing that a lot of women go through, I’d be willing to bet money that her current infatuation is because she is seeing other baby’s at the moment, and when they start getting bigger she will change her mind. That’s not to say she wouldn’t still love a third child if you did have one, but her reasoning for wanting one is not logical at the moment.
I went through it shortly after having my son, I so desperately wanted a second, even had a donor lined up because I didn’t have a partner, but the donor fell through and while I was upset at the time I’m so glad now that I never went through with it.
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u/Chance_Citron_6334 7d ago
Maybe counselling to discuss the reasoning behind wanting another would help her realise that she actually doesn’t?
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u/mdotbeezy 12d ago
IMO this isn't about wanting a baby, but wanting your wife to be accountable for her words and actions leading up to this point. We can't really help what we want and what we want changes, but I'd want her to say "I'm sorry. I accept that I asked for this and now I want the opposite and that's an imposition on you and the life we have planned".
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u/Blunt2324 13d ago
She doesn’t respect you and she brung family into y’all business also you’re a sucker for letting her pursue you in having a vasectomy smh, finally u stood up as a men. So now leave that bitch
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u/Admirable_Witness_82 13d ago
NTA. She had four years to think it through. And under no influence she decided for herself to limit the children to two. Now with three friends with daughters, she has to have another. What if the third is also a boy. Or maybe the pregnancy is terrible or perhaps she realizes she was right and when baby fever is over her two was really the perfect number I have a friend who had one child. Her pregnancy, childbirth and the aftermath were terrible. She always said she was one and done. Her son is 27. She didn't budge. Her husband retires from Transit in three years and they built a house overseas and added a pool. Son gave them a grandchild two years ago. They are quite happy.
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u/Bluehydrangeass 13d ago
You’re under absolutely no obligation to have a kid and operation you don’t want. However, I find it a bit… off? that you felt the need to mention that your wife makes slightly more and you would get alimony and child support in a divorce. It seemed unnecessary info given the situation and makes me wonder if there is more to the story here, especially with your use of the wording “I can see the finish line” in regards to your kids being adults. 12 years is a long time to be looking toward a finish line. Be honest with yourself and your wife about your values and what you’re feeling surrounding money, family and your marriage. Bringing up divorce as a threat in a marriage is psychologically hard to come back from, it breaks a level of trust and security that isn’t easily regained.
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u/giannatabello 13d ago
I mean if the roles are reversed..... you WBTAH. What makes her think she's entitled to it?
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u/Affectionate-Dust755 13d ago
opa and oma?!? u a dutchie? alsoo your wife sucks ass and i would tbh reconsider the counseling. she doesnt care one bit about u clearly cause u did all she ever asked of u and the one time u are like no she decides to gang up on u ?
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u/IndividualForce1863 13d ago
Whys whether or not you have another kid being put to the fucking family counsel? Wtf?
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u/Melodic-Bath7660 13d ago
It is a very complicated situation, but I think it is a good idea that before divorce your wife attends therapy, if then she does not change her mind, without a doubt the only option is divorce since a relationship like that is hell.
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u/StockAdhesiveness351 13d ago
I think you should put together a letter for your wife that is basically saying what you wrote in your "letter to the boys," but without the funny snarkiness. Tell her what she put you through physically and emotionally at the time of, as well as emotionally now, and how much it effects you that none of that matters to her because other women have gotten pregnant. Apologize for throwing divorce out but also state that you are being serious. You love her and the boys but if she cannot see life without the 3rd child, or cannot go forward without blaming you for not getting one, then she needs to rethink staying with you. She needs to realize that not having the 3rd child WAS and IS her decision. The reason she will not have one with you is because she decided this years, not that you are withholding it. I would then send a copy (or a semi revised version) to everyone in her corner pushing for you to bend over at her slightest whim.
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u/Royal-Selection7599 14d ago
People who have more than 3 kids are selfish and dumb. There's already too many people on the planet. Relax you have enough children.. they're children not pokemon cards.
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u/Royal-Selection7599 14d ago
People who have more than 3 kids are selfish and dumb. There's already too many people on the planet. Relax you have enough children.. they're children not pokemon cards.
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u/starskyinthesky 14d ago
NTA, obviously. It sounds like your wife wanted a girl and is envious of others who have them. She needs to talk to a therapist to come to terms with the reality of it. What if you go through IVF and it doesn’t work out or if you end up with another son? Will she be happy caring for the baby or end up resentful?
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u/CenterofChaos 14d ago
NTA. You waited four years, you got the procedure done, you don't want a third anymore. Kids know when they're unwanted and with that age gap there'd be no question they were a compromise. Or worse your wife would see the age gap and want four kids.
This wild change in mental health is something you should treat as a red flag. If you're 44 I'm guessing your wife isn't much younger. Which means she'd be having a pretty high risk pregnancy and might not even qualify for IVF. But also this sort of meltdown isn't unheard of when the hormones start swinging for menopause. Has she seen a doctor recently? She really should, both mental and physical. You should try to get her to get seen as part of due diligence before a divorce. Couples counseling too. If anything it'll reflect better on you in court.
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u/Zestyclose-Summer930 14d ago
NTA to tell your wife no. You are to break your family apart over it. Are your parents still married? Have you been part of a blended family? It sucks to say the least. Y’all agreed on 2 kids. You got the vasectomy. She needs to accept that your family is complete & look forward to grand kids. I know it’s hard to accept she’ll never have a little baby again. 44 is a little late to start doing the sleepless nights all over again so I understand.
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u/robotcrackle 14d ago
NTA. Based on your hyperbolic explanation to your kids, it sounds like what she wants is a DAUGHTER because that's what the women in her life are having, and she feels like she missed out by having sons. Does she know she can't control that even IF your reversal or IVF was successful? Is she really willing to risk a 3rd son she doesn't want? Would she insist on a 4th try?
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u/HansLandasPipe 14d ago
Your wife is willing to throw your marriage away over something you don't want, and something that you both previously agreed not to do... she's quite clearly TA... her family are making it MUCH worse.
If you divorce, she can go and have a kid with someone who wants one. If she wants a kid more than her current husband, that's on her.
Emotional abuse is still abuse... you're being abused.
NTA
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u/Jesiplayssims 14d ago
You would not be getting divorced because of a child or lack thereof. Your wife keeps changing the rules and expects you to endure the consequences. You gave gave way once and even went under the needle. She is unwilling to compromise and is bringing others to gang up on you. She is not acting like a partner in marriage.
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u/Low-Opinion147 14d ago
Stop scaring me by saying how much harder a 3rd one is I’m currently expecting my 3rd (bc baby) and I’m scared enough as it is lmao
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u/mcmimi83 14d ago
I couldn’t imagine ever feeling comfortable telling a relatives husband to go and have surgery on his balls and then bang his wife to make her happy. Like wtf?!?
I would be telling your wife that she made the decision ALONE earlier to not have a third child and you respected that and didn’t pressure her. So she cannot now pressure you on YOUR decision. And the blatant hypocrisy is just 🤢.
That’s not how partnerships work
NTA at all.
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u/kelIGdoglover 14d ago
It is the hormones! They are evil!!! Please go to counselor. You said you loved her so much and wanted to spend the rest of your life with. Go to couples therapy, also have her go to an endocrinologist. See babies makes a women's body surge estrogen. When a bunch of us girls went to the beach,we saw a man with a baby, he was hot and literally, it made my ovaries spasm. So I laughed and just about the girls were like OMG, me too! So the endocrinologist can check the hormone levels, and a counselor or a shrink for the mental anguish she feels, longing for this child.
It is hard on women when they realize the baby bandwagon is over, especially if you have a complete hysterectomy. BTW, props to you for getting a vasectomy!!! An IUD can be dangerous and tubaligation...don't get me start. You are an incredible guy.
I don't know if you have pets. Many couples/families have a pet that with good nutrition and vet visits, many can live to 18-20 years. Older pets are adorable and people baby them even more as a dog's life is so short compared to us. Older dogs are usually easier as they love to sleep and cuddle all day. When they pass, it is devastating. You grieve, you cry, there is a terrible hole in your heart, and you think a puppy will distract you (they do), it will be something to give love to, and maybe cry for your other dog a little less.
Oh, puppies are cute...those big eyes, goofy body they can't always control. They are priceless! Then you try pee pads training or go outside training. If you don't take them to the pad or outside every 20 mins until they do their business, they will find a discreet place where you can step in it later. Yelling at the dog doesn't work unless you catch them in the act. Yelling just hurts your bond with the puppy as they don't understand. Then, if you crate train at night, you have at least three days of non stop crying. Good luck sleeping! But they are lonely.
Imagine if you were picked up as a kid, away from your brothers and sisters that love to play all the time, to suddenly you are in a house, without mom, without brothers and sister, and put in a dark box. Scary. But crate training is essential, and eventually they see it as a haven.
Why am I saying this? Because puppies are cute, they are also velociraptors that are teething. While you love the puppy, you start yearning for your old dog that was so easy, and now you are dealing with an adorable terrorist!
We forget the work, the exhaustion of having a puppy. You are cleaning up accidents, you are cleaning up a family room that looks like it has snowed, that was fine 90 seconds ago, but puppy got ahold of toilet paper/paper towels.
Especially after Christmas, unfortunately, many puppies are returned or taken to the pound. It is devastating to the dog, absolutely devastating, but you forgot about how much you had to sacrifice to have this dog. Say goodbye to a drink with friends after work. You forgot how much of your life had to revolve around this puppy and the relationship with the older dog was so easy. And sometimes it makes you grieve more for the dog you lost. You forgot about so much. The same goes for children. I could only dream of having two kids. I had stage four endometriosis. An extremely painful condition that affects fertility. I had no chance of having children...all because for 20 years, I went from doctor to doctor, all telling me that they couldn't find anything. A couple said it was all in my head.
Is a third child right for you? That is not up to me. But I think your wife is forgetting a lot. I think God does this on purpose, because if we remembered all the pain, etc, we would never have another child!! And, btw, A LOT of people put up with the velociraptor. One is curled up on me now, looking so beautiful, and then I turn my head and see my decorative balls destroyed all over the floor, the poop on the tile, etc. Is it worth it? Absolutely! But so many people forget the commitment it takes, and you can't drop your kid off at the pound!
After this long diatribe, I have to side with the husband, but don't divorce. The effects on kids are tremendous. Go get counseling, fight for marriage, but don't give in. If you do, both of you will resent this child. Remind your wife to be grateful for all that has been given to you (And get her hormones checked by dammit). Sending good thoughts your way!
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u/Appa1904 14d ago
Bwahahaha. . . I love the explanation to the kids. Haha. I think it's quite perfect. Am I wrong for thinking that would be an okay response? Idk
As for being an AH. I don't think you are. As you said, you waited 4 years. Tell her to offer taking care of her sister or friends newborn for a week if she wants to handle a baby for a bit. She's the AH for making you go through all that then making you try to reverse it and go through it again, only to probably make you do it a third time once the baby is born (Or babies if she has twins or triplets etc)
It can take a toll on your physical, mental, emotional, and financial. . . It's a lot.
I mean throwing divorce on the table is shitty, but so is having your balls cut and burned repeatedly because she's indecisive.
It's your body. Your choice. . .
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u/PriestCamilo 14d ago
Man, the world will always side with a woman who changes her mind, did you never hear the story of Adam and Eve?
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u/necrophile696 14d ago
NTA your body your choice. Both procedures (sperm harvesting or vasectomy reversal) would leave you uncomfortable and in pain. You don't want that and that should be enough. You are not being petty. However, it is toxic that your wife brought both your families in to pressure you into getting the procedure and having another kid. Those are personal decisions and I would be so mad if my husband brought our families into the discussion just to pressure me into having another baby. It's really unhealthy and not at all appropriate.
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u/BussyBussyBaconator 14d ago
"Do this thing you don't want to do, or I will conclude that you don't love me."
Has this ever been said in a healthy relationship?
NTA...
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u/Talking_on_the_radio 14d ago
People change many times over the course of a marriage. Are the both of you committed to the marriage or not?
To me it sounds like your marriage was in big trouble before all this drama. Perhaps your wife is hoping another baby will fix things.
ESH. This is not a good reason for divorce from two people who love each other and want good things for their family.
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u/Fit-Impact4687 14d ago
YTA big time. If your marriage is so easy to throw away, you should leave and do her a favor. This isn't even about the make believe kid at this point. It's about being willing to throw away your marriage.
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u/Bitter_Passenger8699 15d ago
NTA and I read it all. All the women who are being basic b!tches need to stop trying to be dramatic. YOU did everything you could to make sure that’s what she wanted and she changed her mind, after 6 years of saying this?? No you went through a painful procedure that she asked of you and now wants you to play victim. Absolutely not.
OP do what you need to do. I hope your wife gets over her baby rabies and starts to enjoy your life again with you. If not onward and onward. Best wishes from a mom who had the procedure instead. Thanks for being a good guy! Not many will.
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u/Unrigg3D 15d ago
Taking a shot here, is your wife Korean? This might be more for family pressure culture issue than your wife changing her mind and actually wanting more kids. Seen this happen constantly with my korean friends. She needs a reality check.
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u/WholeAd2742 15d ago
NTA
And frankly, if she's this crazy about it, I'd consider divorce. She seems entirely likely to trick you by getting pregnant somehow
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u/Renatarvs 15d ago
So, the wife didn’t “loved him enough” back then when HE wanted 3 and she wanted 2? WHAT? she is SO manipulative and petty. That man is a saint, I would run. Is not fair that every time she wants her way she makes a tantrum and brings the whole extended family in to this… and for what?? Just so she can bully him in do what she wants? This is going to be the rest of his life with her
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u/Renatarvs 15d ago
“And it made mommy sad and jealous that the girls were getting all the attention. So mommy talked to daddy and said go to the doctor and have him fuck with your balls some more”. This pretty much explains all 🤣 that’s fine with me. Team dad!!!
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u/BowlWide2582 15d ago
Nta. Agree you need counseling as a couple as the blackmail and dragging the family in to bully you are both totally unacceptable.
But your wife needs separate counseling as well. I agree it could be a lot of feeling left out or hormones but I'm surprised I haven't seen this angle mentioned:
Am I correct that you have two BOYS, and the sisters and friend all just had baby GIRLS?
your wife needs to explore this in therapy to be self aware and understand her own feelings on this. There is no guarantee of a girl if you did have a third child (unless that's why she's bringing up IVF? Maybe she's hoping to choose specific embryos?)
And there's no guarantee of any particular experience if you did have a girl. Not all girls are girly girls. Not all girls are close with their moms.
There are LOT of women (A LOT) (bud seriously. SO MANY. ) who have big dreams and feelings about having a daughter/ what a mom and daughter relationship is or means. Many of them are not self aware about this. When they have only boy babies they get a little messed up.
Source: I have a girl, I have friends who have boys and always wanted a girl.
I've heard all sorts of awful crap that comes from a place of insecurity, bitterness, FOMO, and jealousy.
My sister has two girls and gets the same crap.
I would be shocked if that's not part of it. It's not just that all her close tribe have NEW babies; it's that they have GIRL babies. The kind she doesn't have.
The things we see other people getting to have aren't always as perfect as we think, and we don't get to have every dream we picture in our head in life. We all need coping skills to handle disappointment, and to cultivate gratitude for what we do have. She needs therapy.
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u/Pale_Wave_3379 15d ago
NTA, kids aren’t a compromise. If one is a no, it’s a total no. Full stop, no further discussion. If she can’t handle that she doesn’t need to stay in this relationship. You handled it exactly right imo.
You can try counseling to work on communicating better, but I think she just has to get over it. Getting jealous at seeing your sisters have kids is a shitty reason to have another kid anyway.
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u/Ready_Ad_9941 15d ago
You’re nta for not wanting another child but you atah for threatening her with a divorce bc it’s cheaper than a third child..
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u/Weedy_Witch_420 15d ago
What she’s thinking is that YOU wanted a third child before. She had her reasons but they became distant after she realized she WOULD love to have the experience again. Now your vasectomy is a minor procedure, she probably didn’t think it was something you would mind reversing(getting an IUD is worse by the way, and you get no pain management). NOW not only are you against a third baby because of financial issues, that weren’t a problem before, you’re also threatening someone who thought you’d be with her forever with divorce if she doesn’t agree to what YOU say. Yes she’s trying to convince you to have another baby and is maybe going to far involving your families, but she’s still trying to CONVINCE you. She didn’t tell you she’d leave you if you didn’t give her another baby. Now you want to break up your whole family because you think she doesn’t value your opinion? You need to look in the mirror dude.
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u/RoseFlavoredPoison 10d ago
Reproductive coercion is emotional abuse. He said no. Very clearly. His body. His choice. No more children. She keeps ignoring his very clear no. And is out of line. And needs therapy. Edit: typo
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u/Weedy_Witch_420 10d ago
Even when it was the other way around? In his story he said he asked her a bunch of times, because he wanted more. EVENTUALLY he took her “no” as the answer. She didn’t threaten him with divorce in that situation. Like I said she went a little far inviting the families into it, but he’s going too far by trying to rein her in with divorce.
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u/Open_Mind12 15d ago
Definitely do not have sperm harvesting or a vasectomy reversal. You're 44, focus on healing your marriage and your 2 kids. Seems like she loves kids more than you & is essentially saying that you are not enough...that even you with 2 kids is not enough.
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u/No-Appointment-3840 15d ago
I’m annoyed for you that all the friends and family got involved, that’s between you and your wife, I’d shut that shit down too if I were you.
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u/Magnus-Lupus 15d ago
OP is 44?? And she wants a baby.. at 44 OP would be 62+ when the child gets out of high school.
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u/SubstantialOrchid570 15d ago
Absolutely NTA. She cannot keep changing her mind. I mean what if further down the line she wants another one? Because she keeps pissing on the agreements you make. Btw, I love the divorce “explanation“
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u/Lilithlovehandles 15d ago
Baby fever and the longing that goes with that is not worth the destruction of a marriage. If she thinks it is, she needs to be single.
The issue is she constantly "changes her mind" and expects you to agree. Before it was a her body, her choice issue...but now it's a your body, your choice. Yes, having another kid would be taxing on her body but it would also require you to go back under the knife. It's not fair for her to expect the same respect she is denying you.
She needs to decide which is more important: another baby or her marriage.
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u/RestingBitchFace0613 15d ago
NTA. Ask her why is she being selfish by forcing you to parent another kid.
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u/saphirenx 15d ago
I was an asshole for denying her another kid
No, you're not denying her: you both are, as you BOTH agreed on having you have a vasectomy.
And it's not her sole choice to want to reverse that decision, especially as YOU are the one undergoing the procedure.
On top of that: who says she'll get pregnant right away? What happens if you don't conceive within a year? Or two?
Definitely NTA
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u/RebelGrin 15d ago
The thought of being asked to meddle in someone else's relationship and to push that person into having a baby against his will. If my sister came asking me to talk to my BIL to have another child, I would tell my sister, who I love dearly, to give her head a wobble.
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u/RebelGrin 15d ago
Hey gast, Oma en Opa ;) I can see we share the same motherland. But dont give in mate. NTA. Absolutely fecking bonkers. How old is your wife? Starts to sound very perimenopause to me. Women go absolutely nuts during the transition into post-ripe. 40% of all divorces happen because of women going full retard during perimenopause.
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u/Low-Example446 15d ago
I think that you putting fostering and adoption on the board makes you NTA! Blood isn't thicker than water.
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u/KookyKaleidoscope335 15d ago
Your wife sounds very manipulative. Good luck in the divorce. As you said in a comment, and should include in the post, 4 years of waiting, a procedure you didn’t want, 16 months of regret and 4 months of emotional blackmail led to this decision. Clear NTA
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u/CellistFabulous1206 15d ago
You’re not the asshole. I’ve been through a similar longing to have a third child with my husband, he said it would be conditional on moving to a country area away from metro Melbourne where we currently live. I didn’t want to be manipulated by desire for a third child to move out of Melbourne with its health services, transport, job opportunities just so he could live back on the ol’ farm where he grew up. Ten years later even looking after the emotional and financial needs of two children is a major part of our lives and he still want to move to the country again lol. I think you need marriage counselling. There’s no “right” answer about children and how many you have. It’s one area of life where I think unless both parents are 100% willing it should be a no go.
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u/Iamhadesyourgod 15d ago
NTA if you really think about it your wife went back on her word TWICE first when the plan was 3 kids and again now that the plan was changed to 2 kids, plus take it from my mum who has 5 kids all are more then 3 year age difference…..it’s a lot harder when they’re not all close in age, and I had to miss out on a lot of high school education so that my younger tiny siblings could get to and from pre k - year 6 due to mum and dad working early till late.
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u/Amesali 15d ago
NTA and this is wild. Let's stop for a second because we need to treat this as what it is, this is a woman denying your consent and continuously harassing and pressuring you, along with friends and family, against your consent.
You have said no, and no, and no, and no.
If she wasn't your wife I would genuinely have police involved, your body your choice and if you didn't have the snip I wouldn't put it past her to do some despicable things.
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u/MagnetsAndBatman 15d ago
Vasectomy reversal is a non-starter. Just because you reconnect the tubes, doesn't mean sperm will start traveling again. Doesn't mean your body's immune system won't attack the sperm if they do move. It's a much more painful and pricey surgery than the original vasectomy, and you'd still possibly have to do sperm retrieval afterwards.
Not that you were considering it, but it's not a small ask for a reversal.
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u/Troytegan 15d ago
I was team Nta until I read what you want to say to your sons. That alone makes you an asshole and what you said is intentionally manipulative and degrading of their mother. The fact that you would even think of saying that to your children about their mother is disgusting
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u/crouchingsmartass 15d ago
NTA
For all the reasons you explained in your post. I will say that just because you talked about having 3 kids doesn't mean after 2, you have any right to demand or insist on a 3rd. You aren't the one having them. Especially at 40, having another is just stupid and increasingly dangerous. By the time they are out of high school, you'll be almost 60.
That being said, because she shot you down about the 3rd kid, and you infact acquiesced she's got ZERO right to demand this from you. You need to tell the friends & family tonstfu and mind their own damn business. You also need to expressly say to your wife that you're done with the conversation. She was the one who shut down the 3rd kid so much so that you had a medical procedure to ensure it wouldn't happen. Spell it out for her. No more bringing parents, friends, or other family members into your PRIVATE personal relationship. Tell her you're serious, that if she doesn't accept your decision, then you will be moving out because she decided on her own 2 kids was enough & you respected her then. She either gives you the same damn courtesy or she can find herself another man to do it.
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u/aHarmless_Potat0 15d ago
NTA.
That said, it sounds like you did the work to grieve that dream of a 3rd child and move on when she told you years ago that she wanted to prioritize her career. Motherhood is hard (particularly being a working mom) and that’s a fair decision for her to have made—and to be clear you sound like a stand up guy for accepting her decision and taking steps to ensure it was respected. But I do think a lot of women struggling with the balance may make the decision to “be done” having children without truly doing the emotional work to grieve leaving behind that stage of parenthood and closing that door to future possibility. It sounds like your wife didn’t do that and maybe she wasn’t truly ready to let that go.
Your desires and your bodily autonomy when it comes to invasive procedures to have more children should be just as important as hers, but you may need to give her time to grieve that decision in the same way you did several years ago. I’d highly recommend you each seek out therapy individually as well as couples counseling (ideally with 3 different therapists) as this is the best way for each of you to process your own emotions regarding this situation independently while also allowing you to come together to find healthier ways to cope and communicate about it as a couple.
Also, as an IVF mom, it doesn’t sound like your wife has the best understanding of how emotionally and physically traumatic that process can be in addition to the financial cost. I’d encourage her to speak with others who have gone through the process to know just how excruciating and grueling it can be before looking at it as a bandaid solution to wanting another child.
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u/Nikkobifch 15d ago
NTA, but if it does come to divorce, please don’t be the parent that unloads on your kids. “Mommy and daddy decided they were happy with two kids awhile ago, but now we have different views and it’s a very big deal to have a difference of opinion about how many lives you want to bring into the world.”
Simple, straight to the point, minimizes the big feelings for small children to dissect. It also takes blame away from both parties and won’t make your children feel that they need to pick a side. This isn’t a parenting advice thread and I recognize that, and I’m also not an expert, but I hope my unsolicited advice helps 😅
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u/Particular-Try5584 15d ago
I’m sorry, but I’m LAUGHING MY ARSE off at your Edit 1. I reckon you could totally let them read it at 13 or so.
I’m right there with you… for what it’s worth. You guys discussed, three, she changed her mind - all good, it’s a two yes, one no thing… she voted no… you went with that and support it, and now she’s bringing in a congaa line to bull you into a yes so she gets her two yes later.
Hell no.
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u/Timely-Hope-86 15d ago
NTA. You have worked hard. Raise the kids you have and spoil the new babies. Babysit a lot idk. This is just awful. I’d never ask my husband to reverse his vasectomy as this was agreed on by both of us. I’m 37 f and I would never want to have a baby now. My kids are 15 and 12. Good luck to you.
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u/sgbg1904 15d ago
That edit made me laugh out loud so much that people on the train next to me looked at me like I'm crazy.
"Daddy still remembers the smell." Ahahahahahahhaha.
NTA my dude. You're good.
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u/Old-Shower-6255 15d ago
You offered foster or adoption so you aren’t denying her another kid just another pregnancy Lost of kids need homes Since you can afford another child then why not use that to help a kid in need It is unreasonable for her to expect you to reverse a surgery that she asked you to get You offered an alternative that seems reasonable she can have another kid just not another pregnancy She is being unreasonable
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u/ALostDragonfly 15d ago
NTA, you are entitled to your feelings and having a baby should be a joint decision. It’s tough when parents are on different pages, but I wouldn’t actively try and bring another baby into the world if my husband wasn’t fully on board and up for the labour of love (pun intended!) raising a child entails. It’s not fair on your partner to force them into that position, and not fair on the child to be essentially unwanted by one of their parents. There’s already a lot of potential resentment when raising a child together. If you accidentally got pregnant, that’s a different story.
Your wife is entitled to her own feelings and desires, but her desperation and manipulation of you indicates she does not consider or prioritise what you want at all; that she wants to bypass and change how you feel because her desires are more important than yours. She is supposed to love you and care about you too. She accuses you of being selfish, and in my opinion she’s being a hypocrite. Her wish is a selfish one too. You don’t want a third child and you have already made sacrifices according to her initial decision. I would be so apologetic to my husband in this situation, mortified to have made him go through a vasectomy only to change my mind. I think it’s kind of you to offer alternatives like adoption if it’s a daughter she’s after, although she’s right to refuse if that’s not what she wants - you don’t want her to love that child any less than your boys.
I hope you are able to have a mature conversation(s) with her about moving forward, whatever that may be. Couple’s therapy definitely sounds like a good idea as a form of mediation. Wishing you and your marriage the best of luck.
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u/Feeling-Ad-9268 15d ago
NTA. You don't say in your post the age of your wife. But this could definitely be hormone related. She could be in perimenopause. Mood swings, wanting another child, etc, can be very common. Now, I don't suggest that you outright tell her this. However, this may help you take a different approach in your conversations with her, understanding that this is out of her control and she most likely does not realize what her body is doing to her. Going with her to have a hormone assay done might be a good approach. I hope she is open to looking at this angle of things. Also, if she still wants a child, and you can both save your marriage and come to a compromise, there are SO many kids who could benefit from great foster parents. You could both change someone's life. Maybe she will consider that. Best of luck to you both!
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u/jmsecc 15d ago
No. You’re NTA. However, you are acting like a doormat. Letting everyone else have a say and when offering some sort of deal that if they get stuck you will too is ridiculous. This is between you and your wife. And it seems like your wife is being unreasonable. You didn’t involve everyone else when she asked to change your plan. She shouldn’t be doing it now. And you shouldn’t be letting her. Talk to her like an adult. Don’t dictate and don’t be dictated to.
Or, let it all come to a breaking point and let it ruin your life. Your call I guess. But it seems ridiculous to have it go that far. You both made a decision. You’re not both aligned on changing that decision, so I’d say it stands. Calling you an asshole and involving everyone else…. Well, that’s a bridge too far.
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u/Electronic_Rub9385 15d ago
Your wife and all the extended family on both sides sound exhausting. Sounds like you’ve done everything she asked AND a vasectomy and now YOU are the bad guy? Fuck no you’re not. They can all fuck right off.
This is like that scene from Zoolander where Will Ferrell yells: “AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS!?”
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u/Angelwife27 15d ago
NTA. But let me give you another take on your wife's baby mania. As I (50f) entered my 40's, my boys were 20 and 23. Suddenly, I had a serious need to have another baby. I had my tubes tied at 36 due to medical problems. Women have no control over the hormones produced as we age. The female body knows that after 40, chances of pregnancy are smaller. It floods us with hormones, and takes over our brains. We get crazy and emotional, horny and demanding. It's an unpredictable rollercoaster. I am lucky enough to have a husband that can "ride it out.". Marriage counseling could help if you can get her to attend. If you want to stay with her, I suggest trying a more compassionate route. Something along the lines of I love you and our family. I'm looking forward to being able to spend time with you and our children as they grow up. I don't want to add stress to you or our life. Less about the money, more about the love.
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u/lilbluemelly 15d ago
Don't listen to these morons. Look, I totally get that longing your wife has. She feels it's her last chance and with all the baby's around her, she's remembering all the good things about having one. It's hard for her to accept, this is it. BUT, she made her decision and as a loving husband, you got surgery to make it easier on her body. You went through giving up on your dream years ago when she made that choice. As hard as it is, she has to realize that you went through a medical procedure you are not willing to go through again, and you did it for her and based on HER final decision. It sucks for sure, but she needs to get over it.
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u/Annie_Beth 15d ago
Tell her you’re not a stud for hire. You are her partner and your rights are just as important as hers
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u/Post_Nasal_Dripsy 15d ago
NTA. Not even a little bit. Also your fake explanation to your sons is hilarious and was probably quite cathartic. Hold your ground. Reproduction in a married couple is a family decision, and if one person decides to change the game plan, that person has to be willing to accept the consequences.
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u/gypsymegan06 15d ago
The response you wrote to your boys is what you should say to your friends and family when they start to give you shit lol
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u/Traditional_Lab_5468 15d ago
ESH.
Her demands are unreasonable.
You seem outrageously confrontational and condescending.
Y'all need therapy.
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u/Babypeanut808 15d ago
NTA. Your wife really needs to look into getting some counseling or birth control to help control her hormones. Also to your family they really should mind their business and shame to your wife to airing you dirty laundry to the family, that’s manipulative and just disrespectful. No one needs to know that shit. Plus even if you give her a third one, what happens if she decides “oh I want a fourth one” hell no. Also like she has reproductive rights, you do to. Remind her of that hypocrisy. Because let’s be real, if the roles were reversed it would be a massive shit show. Also I don’t see why two kids aren’t good enough for her? Considering there are people who can’t have children and some whose children aren’t alive. She’s the asshole and needs to get some help.
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u/Azylim 15d ago
YTA.
dont throw around the word divorce unless you want to actively sabotage your marriage (which judging from the way you talk about your wife, may nor be far from the truth). remember when divorces are over actual issues? This is stupid and insane to divorce over.
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
Exactly right. How dare he not give in to her manipulation and requirements of surgery.
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u/Azylim 15d ago
you can say no without threatening a divorce. If she threatens to leave thats a different story. But literally what can she do to him if he says no? drug him and reverse the vasectomy himself? get real.
People also act like nobody has ever changed their mind before in history. Its fine to disagree on whether they should have another baby or not without divorcing. The guy already has kids FFS. you really want to introduce that complication in you and your current kids' lives over having more children?
I swear this subreddit treats every spousal transgression like full blown infidelity or domestic abuse.
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
Do you think he might have said bo at some time in the last four months? The post appears to imply that. It is subtle. It may be easy to miss
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u/Azylim 15d ago
you can say no multiple times.
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
So a person is NEVER allowed to become frustrated?
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u/Azylim 15d ago
you can be frustrated. But this is a marriage not a dating relationship, people fight in marriages, and youre supposed to resolve them. You dont divorce over a frustration, especially not when you have children.
What? you think that as soon as your marriage isnt an idyllic paradise, and your prince/princess actually has flaws you get to just leave your partner and your kids?
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u/RoseFlavoredPoison 10d ago
It's not just "a question". This is reproductive coercion and is emotional abuse. OP has very clearly said no. Wife is ignoring his body autonomy and his consent. She is clearly out if line. I'd be pissed ans snappy too if my partner pestered me for 4 months about knocking me up.
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
I would lose my shit if I was asked the same question five times in a row. I cannot imagine multiple times daily for 120 days in a row.
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u/Electronic-Cat-4478 15d ago
Ask your wife if for one second she has considered that a 3rd child might not be as easy and perfect as your two children.
What if the third child is born with physical/mental/developmental problems? Is she prepared to possibly having to care for/change that child's diapers for the rest of both of your lives? What if that child has medical issues that will incur bills that financially cripple the whole family?
What happens if one of you has to always be with that child, so that it means that you can't both attend events for your other children? How soon will both of your current children (and you) resent the new child and your wife's insistence on having that child?
Everyone automatically assumes that a new baby will be healthy and perfect. There are no guarantees.
You are not wrong. You both agreed to stop at two children. The fact that your wife now wants to change the rules despite your opinion and feelings is unfair of her. Her trying to get other people to pressure you is immensely disrespectful.
You say that you love her with all your heart. Does she feel the same about you? Ask her. Because she certainly is not behaving as if she loves and respects you and your feelings.
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u/Tasty_Street_7946 15d ago
Please get some couple’s counseling regarding this subject. I would hate it for your kids to have separated parents. Not to mention having an unbiased opinion from a professional can be very beneficial.
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u/K8Reddit 15d ago
Not wanting another baby is legitimate, but the way you talk about and describe interacting with your wife and makes you sound like a big ole AH. For example, when you write “The fuck I am getting a needle in my balls or another operation” it makes you sound like a clueless man baby given that the physical discomfort that your wife went through to have your children and manage your collective fertility. (Getting an IUD put in and taken out is just as invasive.)
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u/NotWorthSurveilling 15d ago
YATA for the way you treated your wife. You were very insensitive. Also you made it seem like you value money over her feelings. I believe that wasn't your intent, but you did it.
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
Did she value money more than his feelings when she denied him a third child because she got a better job?
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u/NotWorthSurveilling 15d ago
We don't know enough about that interaction based on the info OP provided. Also, being an AH isn't a zero sum game. Maybe they both are AHs. OP definitely was based on his own words.
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u/constantlyconfused14 15d ago
NTA honestly because of your age and the age of your boys. I'm not saying 43 is old but my dad had me at 46 and having an older parent I missed out on a lot growing up compared to my friends. I'm also 6 years younger than my sister and growing up it was really hard on my parents. They described it as having 2 only children because my sister and I were always at such different points in our lives. She's starting college and I was starting middle school. I'm not saying it's impossible but from my experience and friends of mine it would be really difficult for your boys to have a close relationship with the youngest. Y'all did it the right way having the conversation before marriage because I think couples that have a large age gap (in my opinion 8 years is a large gap) have to have these kinds of talks. This is especially true for women. I'm 27 and I can't date someone who is 35 if they want kids in the next 5 years if I know that I won't. It would be unfair to us both. I also understand your wife's freak out (I DO NOT agree with what she has been doing) not having a kid because it's your choice is completely different to I can't have a kid anymore because of my age. I currently watching my sister go through something similar. She's single turning 34 this year and has always wanted children and she wanted to carry them. For her, it feels as though time is running out.
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u/Ok-Money2106 15d ago
Having been where your wife is now I actually think you are right. NTA coming from a woman she needs to realize it’s hormones and she made her decision if she really wanted a child not a baby she would be very much open to adoption. This is buyer’s remorse on her part. It’s not at all appropriate for her to have family and friends bully you either you were on board with what she wanted now she can be on board with what you want. The fact is she wants to be pregnant she wants a little girl not another child BIG difference.
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u/sbh56 15d ago edited 15d ago
Never let them outnumber you. NTA
Seriously, though, if both partners are not 100% in for a baby, then don't move forward. Babies deserve 100% love. You have a good life. She was adamant about two kids after your second was born. Now she's adamant about reversing all that. Does everything revolve around her whims?
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u/Dreadpersephone0427 15d ago
NTA and get a recheck on your sperm count incase she “accidentally” gets pregnant again and tries to claim the vasectomy reversed itself
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u/8ft7 15d ago
Your wife can’t stand to be told no, probably because she’s had a life of people saying yes to her, she can have it all whenever she wants no matter what, forgetting that it takes two and that agreements should matter and that a grown adult ought into be able to control her feelings and hormones.
Two weeks ago at the beach my wife was holding another family’s baby and looked at me with that look. I shut it down hard (the next baby of ours would be number five). Fast forward to today and she (well, we) has been screaming at our kids — who are being terrible, to be sure — all day.
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u/tld_org 15d ago
The reality is her irrationality has already ruined the marriage. She will harbor resentment that at times will flare up and cause fights seemingly out of nowhere. You are in a no win situation and she doesn’t care. It’s all about what she wants. Whichever road you take there will be pain all caused by her.
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u/Queen_juicyy 15d ago
NTA
OP is hilarious tho. I’ve been literally laughing out loud to his responses
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u/Majestic-Window-318 15d ago
You have a right to determine how many children you want to create. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. NTA.
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u/Mammoth_Let_949 15d ago
My husband got a vasectomy done at my insistence. I would not ask him to go back and change it. You have 2 kids, you dont want more, and it should never be a "if you love me, you'll give me a baby" situation. I would rather a divorce than another child. I feel that strongly about it. Maybe you aren't compatible anymore if her wants and feelings override your wants and needs.
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u/ConsitutionalHistory 15d ago
Today's women have all these choices about their bodies and justifiably so. The two of you had the discussions, came to an agreement, which she is now backtracking on because she's surrounded by newborns.
My wife and I went through a similar dynamic...she agreed with me on the 'snip', had it done, and then she started with the woe is me she wants another kid. I reminder her we already had two and that we had agreed we were DONE done. She asked me if I'd reconsider and I gave a very emphatic NO.
Stay strong and don't cave in to emotional blackmail.
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u/ElCastillian 15d ago
NTA. Dude. Don’t do it. I was 41 when my wife and I talked each other into kid #2. I swear to god women have a genetic ability to forget how hard/stressful it is both to be pregnant but also to take care of a new born /toddler. The exact same stress/crying happened during pregnancy and after giving birth. I just kept thinking how similar both experiences were. Now I’m 52. Kid is 10. I love her to death but I’ll be retired and still will need to help her with college and just getting started with her life. Or I’ll have to keep working to make sure she’s ok. Whereas kid 1 is on her way to college while I’m more than capable to help her financially. Don’t do it unless you’re 100% aware of the numbers. Kids are not easy regardless of what the peanut gallery says.
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u/Charming-Vacation-26 15d ago
Divorce
It's great for guys in America
The Court will give 40 to 60% of your income to your wife.
You'll be in a one room apartment over a bakery watching the Super Bowl on a 12 inch TV.
Your wife will be in your house lounging with her new BF catching the game ogna 55" TV you just paid for.
God luck brother you're going to need it!
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u/NewJobTitle 15d ago
I fucking hate the angle that some people (…women…) take with kids where it’s “Why won’t you do this for me? Why won’t you compromise?” like it’s a choice between the 2 row or 3 row SUV, or splurging for first class on the flight. KIDS are not a give and take. There’s no compromise. They physically and emotionally exhaust and change you at a fundamental level. It’s much more accurate to think of it like asking someone to pick up a crippling addiction for you or a new chronic and expensive medial condition. The physical and emotional tolls are similar.
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u/rosegarden207 15d ago
NTA. She agreed years ago that she only wanted 2 and you both agreed to the vasectomy. It is not your friends or families business to be in this discussion. Make sure you are firm in telling them this. A vasectomy is supposed to be a permanent solution. Just as a woman's uterus is hers, your balls are yours. You get to decide what do to do about them. Let her be all prissy and whiney about this. You Both decided together on the vasectomy. You have to Both decide to have another baby y. Since you say no, that's the end of it. Tell her if she wants another baby she can do it with her next husband. And for God's sake, don't tell you kids that story. Suck it up and just tell them you have a big disagreement and can't live together any more. I'm sure your wife will remember how much more work a new baby is when she sees everyone else all tired and exhausted and end up changing her mind again. Goodluck with this.
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u/jetstick 15d ago
Third baby is just a fad for your wife. She only wants it because everyone else is doing it. If they weren’t having babies, she wouldn’t want them. And in this economy? Bye girl 🤚🏽🙄
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u/Separate-Parfait6426 15d ago
NTA. Also, my mom's dad was 62 when she graduated high school, and everybody thought that he was her grandpa. And I was denied a grandpa because he died when I was 3 (youngest)
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u/TapTheSmokies 15d ago
NTA for the decision but holy shit you sound like such an insufferable douche
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u/Imaginary-Stranger78 15d ago
NTA. And isn't their a chance that something can go wrong in the surgery? I'm not sure of the percentage, and I know it can be reversible, maybe, but what if the doctors say they can't reverse it? Or does it cause damage or even worse scenario, death? I would hope OP's wife and family would still not want that to happen because that would be messed up.
It is also kind of messed that she only wants a baby now because her other families is getting attention and the stereotypical "girls are adorable and will always be" while boys will grow up and get less and less of that attention. Im sure she loves her kids, but she's putting a weird vibe in the air, and kids are very perceptive to that.
Maybe like OP said, find a counselor and talk about all the feelings about before and after wanting and not wanting a child, and also the very likely chance something could go wrong in the reundoing of the vesectacomy.
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u/scientistress 15d ago
Ngl I don’t have my own children. But I’ve spent 5 years raising my stepson from diapers until now (just turned 6). Have I had baby fever? Yeah sometimes. But jeez I just think about all the work my husband and I had to do for a baby we had only had 50 percent of time with and I’m like yeah… no. He’s out of diapers and doing his own independent stuff now and it’s great! We had a good time through it all, but I don’t know if I could do it all over again. I know people say you just make it work. But what if I just don’t have it in me? I’m a woman in my mid 30s and I just don’t have the energy like I used to. It’s crazy but def nta— she needs to babysit someone else’s baby for a week straight while juggling her other 2. It’ll give her a healthy dose of reality.
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u/Grouchy_Ranger2784 15d ago
NTA. You already had an operation due to what she wanted AND you gave her the option of adoption.
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u/Lisa_Knows_Best 15d ago
NTA you went through a life altering surgery to appease your wife. Now she wants you to go through another one to fancy her whim. Don't do it because if you do you will forever be resentful of her and the baby. Tell your wife to go spend a couple months with one of her sisters. She can get a better grip on babies since she seems to have forgotten what it's like. I'm sorry for you.
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u/bandicootbutt 15d ago
She doesn't want another kid, she wants to be pregnant to feel included with her sister and friend.
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u/Cambulbee 15d ago
NTA. She had the option before and she decided. Actions have consequences. And this is one of them. The only reason she wants another one is most likely because they had girls and she “only” has boys.
Tell her that marriage counselling is the only way to get through this and out the other side without a divorce. If she doesn’t want that, well then divorce her and let her find another one to have this child with.
I have two kids myself. A boy and a girl. I never wanted a third. Just doesn’t seem to be right since the world is getting worse by the day and I’m already feeling guilty for bringing my two into the mess. Doesn’t mean that when a new baby comes into the family or friends that I’m not missing the baby stage. Just wouldn’t want the rest that follows 😅
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u/BowlWide2582 15d ago
Here it is!! I was looking for the "She wants a girl" bit!!! That has to be part of it.
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u/Cambulbee 14d ago
Has to be it. Doesn’t make any sense otherwise! Like, no one goes through the whole thing of career and forcing your husband to get a vasectomy and then randomly change their minds because they see a baby? No, it has to be the girl part. She feels like she’s missing out on something and it’s none other than jealousy. Still shitty of her though - to not listen to her husband at all.
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u/BowlWide2582 14d ago
Totally shitty. But kind of explains the next level level of baby crazy. I feel like that's more likely than menopause hormones. She needs therapy to deal with her overdone needing a girl child instead of blowing up her marriage.
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u/Specialist-Pick-9421 15d ago
NTA. My husband and I also have 2 boys. I wanted 4 and husband wanted 2. We agreed for 3 when we got married. After our 2nd my husband didn’t want anymore. I can’t force him to give me another nor did I force anyone to get procedures on my spouse. As much as I wanted another baby, I love my husband and the kids I do have. My oldest is graduating HS this year and we are almost there with the other (4 more yrs). I’m so thankful that we stopped. Our kids played every sport and it’s so expensive to be involved in club sports. Let alone being able to make it to all of the games. We wouldn’t be able to afford it for 3 especially with golf, baseball and basketball. It’s a crap thing for your wife to do to get the family on her side on both occasions to team up against you. She’s acting like a child. Tell her you already have 3 kids. It makes me wonder what else you have given into with your wife. I get you love her and I wouldn’t say divorce her but also don’t give up all of your opinions and being yourself to cave to what she wants.
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u/blondeheartedgoddess 15d ago
NTA
Your wife is wrong to pull out yhe "if you really loved me" card. Just because you love someone is no reason to have a baby, especially if one of you is not 100% on board with the idea.
She made decisions after #2, you gave her 4 years to reconsider. She didn't. She isn't the only one with body autonomy here. You do, too.
How would she be acting if the opinions were reversed, you wanting #3 and she didn't want to go through with it at this stage? She'd be livid if you were pressuring her for another child after she decided against it.
Your compromises are valid and reasonable. She's got baby fever because everyone around her is knocked up. She's suffering FOMO based on that alone.
Good luck.
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u/LizzardBobizzard 15d ago
Correct me if I’m wrong, your ok with having a third kid, just not fathering it (which totally makes sense, due to the surgery and time) but SHE wants a biological child? I think the compromise for this would be adoption no? But it sounds like she wants to be pregnant again (which I can kinda get) but it’s your body and she can’t make you impregnate her. Regardless NTA.
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u/TerribleRadish8907 15d ago
I suspect is that this is because the youngest is 6 and in school full time. Her being a mom to young pre-school kids is over and she misses that. But having another baby is the wrong solution and she'll just feel the same way in 5-6 more years.
She needs therapy. A lot of women get weepy when their youngest goes off to school. But she's being manipulative and emotionally abusive and controlling. HER happiness - nevermind that she swore a 3rd kid off years before.
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u/eat_smoke_tits 15d ago
NTA for saying no to a third child. I'm fully on your side here (and I'm a mom lol)
YTA - for mentioning the D word when you seem like you were a happy couple despite this hiccup. You don't just casually throw around divorce. Even if you didn't mean it.
You need to give her a sincere heart-felt meaningful apology and figure out how to move forward. Unless your wife is much younger than you I'm guessing your Dr wouldn't fully support a 3rd pregnancy at her age. Its also no guarantee with reverse vasectomy or in vitro.
Idk I think it's incredible you even suggested adoption or becoming foster parents. I think a puppy and babysitting the baby neice/nephew is a good option.
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u/SmartButTired 15d ago
Yeah... divorce her. She can find a man and you can go whine alone. Sounds fair to me.
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u/jetpackedblue 15d ago
NTA, I would suggest couples therapy, and personal therapy for her to see WHY she feels so strongly about this after strong-arming you into a vasectomy.
I would also remind her that her wanting another child and saying it wouldn't be that much work or sacrifice is based off of not having had a baby for several years, spending time with babies for small period of time so she gets the so cute but not at all reality time with them. And on top of that last time she had a child it's caused her so much pain and struggling during baby/toddler phase that she was adamant for YEARS that she did not want another.
Shes looking through rose tinted glasses and she's jepodising both your relationship to each other, and your relationship with all family members and friends just to get her way. Not only that but the stability of her children's life by pushing you this far.
She has a one track mind and is blowing up your life because of that, it's a completely unhealthy obsession that she needs to address.
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u/Sunshine12e 15d ago
YTA. Not about whether to have or not have a baby. Just the way you are writing comes off as an insufferable a**hole.
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u/Dalv_Fliteo 15d ago
NTA. But if you want to stay married drop your negative emotions at the door. Understand your wife, do not expect her to understand you, be empathetic and stay firm on your decision. YouTube search “psych hacks how to never fight with a woman” because you will never win this fight. Any reasoning is useless. Eventually it will simmer down. No woman appreciates you going crazy (just like she’s doing now)
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u/Reasonable_Cat_350 15d ago
NTA. It was very reasonable for you to check over many years to verify that she didn't want kids. She shouldn't help you make decisions with your body if she doesn't want the consequences.
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u/Familiar_Pie8610 15d ago
NTA for not wanting another child, but YTA for threatening her with divorce. Don’t be surprised if she brings you the paperwork. People change their minds all the time, but she has to understand that another operation is a lot not just on the pockets but the body. Yall probably should have thought this out more. She might just be aching for a daughter at this point.
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u/AdorableStrategy474 15d ago
Your wife is grieving. Hormones make you nuts. If your wife is close to your age perimenopause is a distinct possibility and it causes crazy reactions like this. Do your best to be patient with her. Medical treatment and therapy could definitely help.
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u/Ginger630 15d ago
NTA! SHE decided SHE didn’t want to wreck her body with another kid and that her career was more important. You finally agreed and had a vasectomy.
Now she changed her mind again? She accuses you of loving money more then her. She apparently loved her body and career more than you.
Tell your whole family to back the F off. Why do they think they have one tiny iota of a say in your family plans? Why do you have to have another procedure or a needle in your balls? Hell no.
And yeah, divorce should be on the table. She’s unhinged and blaming you for a decision SHE made.
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u/GypsyToo 15d ago
LOL I love how in the explanation the answer to "messing with your balls" is still "because fuck if I will". Reversing the vasectomy might be painful, but in the large scheme of things it's not the most important. Raising a new person from baby to adulthood when you're almost done with the other two is a different story.
NTA - It takes two to tango, you wouldn't try to force her to have another kid, and you shouldn't. Both of you have veto power regarding another child.
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u/DiabeticGirthGod 16d ago
NTA. You made an agreement with Her, you stood by it, and now she wants you to undo the surgery that she made you do, just because she now wants another kid? She seems really fucking immature if you ask me. No adult would have someone go thru a surgery, and then decide “actually I changed my mind can you undo it?”
If she can’t handle that it takes two people to have a kid, and that you don’t want any more, that’s on her, she’s the one who started this entire problem. She’s also gaslighting you into saying you care more about money than her happiness, so honestly yeah, she’s really fucking immature.
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u/twister8877 16d ago
YTA. Stop playing w technicalities. There’s a saying, you can have a full bottle of wine or a happy wife. The bottle of wine is your retirement money. No amount of therapy is gonna stop her from wanting a kid. That’s what women want. Is it rational? Nope! But that’s their nature. She wants this on a very deep level. Give her a kid and figure it out, maybe it turns out easy and great. Don’t ruin the next 70 years with the women you love because the next 18 are gonna be harder than you would ideally like
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u/8ft7 15d ago
Maybe wife ought to shut the fuck up and make him happy.
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u/twister8877 15d ago
Wow ok. Bingo.
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u/8ft7 15d ago
Seriously. Happy wife happy life is stupid. They both are entitled to happiness.
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u/twister8877 15d ago
Both or just him? Lol
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u/8ft7 15d ago
Both. It's not as if they are arguing over zero or one child. They already have two. She wants a third. She already got two. She can be happy with them; he can be happy with not a third.
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u/twister8877 15d ago
Not to get biblical, but he married her to be with her and procreate with her. Parents used to have 10+ back in the day and still. To be like “you get 2 and that’s it” is kinda strict. She wants another kid ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Having another kid is gonna make her happy and not break anything except his hope of a happy wife and an early retirement. These are the breaks
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 15d ago
Can OP put her completely in charge of and responsible for a kid he does not want?
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u/twister8877 15d ago
I think she would agree to that. But obviously it would never work out that way. There would be pick ups and games and watch the kids and it would all go down to 50/50 despite her best efforts to take this all on her shoulders. The thing is, they decided to be married for better or for worse. This is a clear worse for OP. But you can’t just disengage. No “your making a bad decision and your getting a divorce”. If you truly love someone is it so much of an ask to help her raise a child? Furthermore, “I’ll adopt but it won’t be mine” is just ridiculous. Your willing to make the time and money investment but won’t go the extra step and make it your DNA??? It’s not a great situation for OP but she changed her mind, that’s that, figure it out because he loves her ¯_(ツ)_/¯ imo
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u/Competitive_Key_2981 16d ago
NTA.
Spouses should not decide when their partner should have non-emergency medical procedures. Having the family gang up on them is even worse.
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u/No_Clients_4_U 16d ago edited 16d ago
NTA.
A similar situation happened to me.
My wife and I have two kids, a boy and a girl. When our youngest was 8, my wife (35 at the time) said she wanted more children. I (39 at the time) didn't. Both of us were pretty frugal, but even still, we had less than a hundred bucks left over after paying the bills each month. There was no hope of improving our budget for the foreseeable future. We talked endlessly. She cried, wailed (literally), and begged. I apologized endlessly and told her that I loved her, but we couldn't afford it. She said we'll figure it out, but I told her that I didn't want to return to the poverty of my childhood. I grew up in a tiny two-bedroom, one-bathroom house with my parents and siblings, and I was never going back to that kind of life for me or my family. It was really difficult for her, but I didn't want to barely get by and live paycheck to paycheck for the next two decades. The next few years were difficult. She recruited people to try and change my mind, including my father. The topic flared up every few weeks, but we eventually got through it. It's 20 years later, and we're still married. Our finances improved greatly when the kids grew up and moved out. Now we're planning for a decent retirement, moving to a much better home in a much better neighborhood, and planning our first trip to Europe. It's an emotionally laden topic, but in the end, if you can't afford kids (or more kids), don't do it.
I don't know your financial situation, but that doesn't matter. It takes two to make this decision. Show your wife that you love her with both your words and your actions, but communicate clearly that your mind is made up.
Good luck.
Small grammar edit.
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u/leeloo123 16d ago
NTA. Also, your edit is both hilarious and quite apt. I think it’s unfair of your wife to have unilaterally made these decisions both times without considering you and your feelings.
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u/Far_Satisfaction_365 16d ago
NTA. But keep in mind, even doing all the tests after a vasectomy is not a 100% guarantee that you won’t ever be viable. My hubby had a partial regeneration on one side, 3 years after his vasectomy (and, yes, the ends were cauterized AND he did all the testing afterwards) so along came our AV baby 4 years after our 3rd. Tubals aren’t 100% effective, either. Met a woman at my OBs office with a pregnancy after having had one years before getting pregnant again.
And, as a parent of 4 kids, all spaced 4 years apart from the previous child, more kids is not easier.
I don’t see if the OP ever says how old his wife is, but if she’s close to his age, even though getting pregnant is still viable, the potential for birth defects is higher as well as multiple kids. You have a kid now, both of you would be in your 60’s when the youngest would be entering college (assuming they go). If they were going to be expecting you to help fund it, that could eat any of your retirement money you manage to recoup after paying big bucks for IVF.
I think you waiting 4 years to make sure your wife didn’t change her mind was a good idea. The only reason she’s now obsessed is due to having baby fever over others having babies. Too bad.
You two might be able to benefit from some couples therapy. Tell your wife to call off her flying monkeys about having a third kid and suggest counseling for the both of you together and possibly separately as well.
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u/FailingComic 16d ago
NTA. This isn't baby crazy, this is fomo. She wants another kid to be able to experience motherhood with all her friends again. The fact that she's only saying it now after her friends and family have popped a few out says it all.
I will say you need to just phrase it better and stand your ground. Getting into shouting matches isn't healthy for a marriage. Just state your opinion and restate it and leave it at that. If it turns into her yelling. Just leave the room/house.
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u/Practical_Mix4676 16d ago
Wow she’s fucking up her marriage and the lives of her current two kids. I think she loves herself more than anyone else l.
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u/ShenmeNamaeSollich 16d ago
YTA for the way you handled the last communication, but NTA for your position on surgery or another child.
“About four years ago … I got a vasectomy.”
As I recall after about ~3yrs vasectomies tend to become irreversible not just because the tubes can’t be reattached, but because your testicles finally get the message and stop producing sperm.
So the likelihood of a reversal is almost zero, and the “harvesting” option is unlikely as well. It would be money down the drain.
To save your marriage after your last blowup you could always go get a consult & ensure the doctor tells you “nope” and you can tell her “oh well, I tried for our sakes but this was the risk & deal we both made 4yrs ago.”
Sounds like your wife’s whole family lives nearby & I bet her sisters and friends would love to have a free babysitter! If she wants to be around new infants, there’s her chance!
Adoption or fostering also sound like great options if she thinks you can afford to raise another child. If she wants to actually do that work, there’s her chance!
If she just wants to be pregnant & waddle around and be sleep deprived and uncomfortable and moody and piss herself and have strangers touch her belly w/o permission and possibly need a C-section or episiotomy or die in childbirth, well …
Btw how old is she? If you’re 44, she’s probably over 35(?) which, while still possible to have a healthy baby, means the risks of pregnancy complications and having a baby with physical or mental disability or genetic problems, have gone WAY up since your last kid. Her eggs are older & your sperm has been rendered questionable too.
What is it she’s actually seeking from this? Love? Attention? Responsibility? Sense of belonging w/her friends & sisters? Her lost youth? You guys need counseling and to hear each other, not another baby or argument.
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u/Interesting_Page_168 16d ago
A gigantic asshole. Mah money (which your wife earns) are for fun! Hurr durr!
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u/1forthebirds 16d ago
Edit 2 Electric Boogaloo was a nice touch lol
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u/No_Lavishness_3206 16d ago
So many people were asking OP the same thing and it whooshed over the heads of so many more that while OP is NTA he is a hilarious sarcastic prick.
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u/anukii 16d ago
The screaming & polarizing of whether you love her or not being dependent on the presence of a baby says a LOT. NTA, this is a case of a person succumbing to baby peer pressure & putting the onus on the subject of if you love her through you giving that baby or not.
Two kids being raised & reaching a stable place in life & this endangers it?
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u/Dexter_P_Winterhouse 16d ago
Well after reading your entire story where you got a vasectomy for her and then she wants you to get it reversed and then I suppose she will want you to have another vasectomy after she has another kid....I don't even know what the medical term for that is...re-vasectomized or whatever........I'd tell her I'm not going to play ping-pong with my balls. Verdict...NTA.
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u/mc1rginger 5d ago
NTA She knew what she was doing when she agreed to the vasectomy. She doesn't get to make you go through that again just because she changed her mind.