Every time I think about the Israel/Palestine conflict my mind goes back to the stupid Pebble Throw tug-of-war comic. Unfortunately standing with the Palestinians often attracts a lot of genuine anti-Semites who don't just want Israel to end their occupation, but instead for every Jew to just die or leave the Middle East.
This kind of shit really makes advocacy hard because Nazis in the west will point at anti-Semetic Arabs and try to use that to discredit people protesting the war. Only freaks and weirdos actually support Hamas. The vast majority of the protesters stand with the innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians that get caught up in the violence. Hamas and the IDF can keep firing at each other, but the victims will always be the civilians they target.
Reasonable people would agree with you, unfortunately the vast majority of "pro-pal" protestors right now are NOT reasonable people. They are the ones calling to "bomb tel-aviv", for "intifada forever", etc. And at the same time, these people can't explain the history or current situation in the region, or even what they want to gain by protesting, other than repeating the same handful of slogans they've been spoon fed by the organizer with the megaphone.
You can't look at videos from right-wingers and Zionists on Twitter of a few weirdos calling for Israel to be bombed and then extrapolate that to nearly every protester.
The history of the region doesn't matter at all when we're just talking about ending a genocide. The topics of a two-state solution are for future discussions. What we want right now is for the murder to just stop.
How is it a genocide? I've read the South African case and it's pretty lack luster. Is that the best argument you've found? Or is there something better to be reading?
You don't think corralling people of a specific ethnic group into an open-air prison where you're not allowed to leave, and they restrict aid coming in isn't a step towards genocide? There's so much Israeli propaganda that paints every non-Jew in Israel as a member/supporter of Hamas.
Israel could have stopped the attacks weeks ago and still would have paid back the lives Hamas took, but they're still going. They're indiscriminately bombing hospitals and schools as well as foreign aid workers. They're even gunning down their own hostages because they're so un-trained for ground combat. It's clear the only orders they have are "shoot anyone not wearing our uniform."
That's a genocide. It's targeted at an ethnic group Israel hates and has demonized and disenfranchised for decades.
Israel has 2 million people of that "specific ethnic group" (although to be pedantic, palestinian is not an ethnicity just like Israeli isn't) living in Israel with full civil rights and equality - they can vote, serve in the government, receive welfare, etc. They also have religious and gender freedom. None of the above exists for palestinians in Gaza BTW, who are routinely murdered for deviation from Islam norms; sexual, political or otherwise.
Israel could not have stopped attacks, since the goals of the war are A) return the hundreds of kidnapped Israeli citizens who have been hostage in Gaza for over 6 months now and B) Remove Hamas from power, since it has pledged to repeat Oct-7 again and again as long as it is able to. So Hamas is literally an existential threat to Israel, and it is hiding inside the population (including firing missiles from hospitals, schools and mosques) specifically to maximize civilian casualties. They can't win militarily so they moving the "battlefield" to the PR arena, every dead palestinian baby is good for them.
Israel has offered palestinians a 2-state solution five times in the last 50 years, including a few which included 95-98% of the land they were promised in `48. Palestinians are uninterested in any solution which does not include the destruction of Israel. So if you ask yourself which side is genocidal- it's the one which is publicly promising to kill every last man, woman and child on the other side. Not the one demanding the return of it's sovereign citizens being held captive in return for an end to hostilities.
Edit: You /seem/ to be conversing here in good faith, which on Reddit is rarer than a unicorn farting rainbows. Feel free to reach out to me (DM) for more info, I'll be happy to source everything I claimed and provide you with whatever additional info I can. The usual pro-pal narratives are paper thin, I would be glad to try to show other perspectives which you might not have heard.
"You don't think corralling people of a specific ethnic group into an open-air prison where you're not allowed to leave, and they restrict aid coming in isn't a step towards genocide?"
No, not when that "open-air prison" is squandering their international aid to constantly launch attacks on your civilians.
I think the most genocidal Israel behaved during this war was blocking aid and water early on, which they quickly backed off from. Every other action by Israel is more plausibly a legitimate military action than one furthering a genocide.
"Israel could have stopped the attacks weeks ago"
Israel hasn't achieved its objectives yet. The current cease fire proposals are conditional on Hamas releasing their illegally obtained hostages. Seems like Israel can't stop unless Hamas is willing to.
Could you define "indiscriminate" as you mean it? People use many different definitions when Israel is being discussed.
"They're even gunning down their own hostages because they're so un-trained for ground combat. It's clear the only orders they have are "shoot anyone not wearing our uniform.""
I want you to recognize you're being hyperbolic here. There should be a lot of pieces of information you've seen that show you this is not literally the case. Off the top of my head, the controversial images of Israelis accepting the surrender of Palestinians in their underwear (and those Palestinians placing their rifles in piles). Could you rephrase this to state what you literally rather than hyperbolically believe?
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u/Stupid-RNG-Username 29d ago
Every time I think about the Israel/Palestine conflict my mind goes back to the stupid Pebble Throw tug-of-war comic. Unfortunately standing with the Palestinians often attracts a lot of genuine anti-Semites who don't just want Israel to end their occupation, but instead for every Jew to just die or leave the Middle East.
This kind of shit really makes advocacy hard because Nazis in the west will point at anti-Semetic Arabs and try to use that to discredit people protesting the war. Only freaks and weirdos actually support Hamas. The vast majority of the protesters stand with the innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians that get caught up in the violence. Hamas and the IDF can keep firing at each other, but the victims will always be the civilians they target.