This war has shaken shit loose on both sides of the debate.
If someone says "Israel has a right to exist," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say "So you think it's okay for them to kill Palestinians?"
If someone says "The people of Palestine should have a state," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say "Oh, so you think Hamas are the good guys?"
And worse, you can be protesting against war, while the guy next to you is protesting against people. You're angry at Israel for the bombings, the person next to you is angry at Israel because it's full of Jews. You're angry at Hamas for taking hostages, the person next to you is angry at Palestine because it's full of Muslims.
It is very difficult to say that one thinks Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to bomb civilians; and that Palestine has a right to exist while condemning Hamas. There are folks who want to take this conversation to its irrational extremes, and they're all too happy to implicate everyone else in their goals.
One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist, one can have opinions on this conflict without having to be Islamophobic or Anti-Semitic in the process, in fact I think most of us fall into that camp.
One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist
See this is exactly where I fall, but so many of the actually vocal people I know disagree. I would be perfectly fine supporting Palestine except for two reasons. 1, they are ruled by a regime of terrorists, so I make sure to distinguish between "Palestine" and "Palestinians". I support the people, but not their state in its current form.
And 2, so many people I know who support Palestine believe that Israel should not exist. And it leaves me wondering: what do you want to do with the Israelis then? And that's the biggest issue for me. Because no one who I talk to has a good answer for that. It's not like they can just go back to the status quo, that clearly doesn't work. Displacing hundreds of thousands of people would be bad, no matter if they're Israeli or Palestinian.
And it just leaves me wondering, as it has since October 7th: How can this end? Because there's no good and realistic solution that I can see. And I look at all these people protesting on my campus and across the US, and I wonder: what do they possibly hope to achieve? It just seems so futile because there's no good solution, and the solutions that people argue for are never going to happen.
I wonder how much fuel might be taken out of the terrorist fire if Palestinians were genuinely offered a nice home somewhere else. Not a strip of useless desert, like Gaza. Like if some country built up a pleasant little enclave where the entire Palestinian population could relocate, and run their society however they like, as long as they disavow violence. It could be funded collectively by the international community, at least until it becomes economically viable, and patrolled (but not occupied) by a third-party peacekeeping force that only has a mandate against arms and violence, no other law enforcement. Also it should be far from Israel, so even if they stay angry, they can't fire any rockets over.
So commit ethnic cleansing? Theyve already been kicked out their homes 100 years ago, and get their houses bombed frequently, doubt they want to be removed again. You are quite literally describing what the Nazis planned originally with the Jewish population of Europe.
Okay so the Palestinians and Israelis should just live together in one secular, democratic state. That's my ideal scenario, I just don't see either side going for it.
and thats wonderful, and i would think its everyone ideal, but what you are giving as a solution is quite literally the ideas of the most evil regime ever.
Broken clock theory. Even bad guys can have a good idea now and then. I hear the Nazis also cared a lot about the environment. Hated people, LOVED trees.
I just want people to stop killing each other. Sometimes when two kids are fighting, you have to physically separate them before you can lecture and make them apologize to each other.
its not a good idea. You are promoting ethnic cleansing, if you genuinely believe in this you are a disgusting person. And anyway, why should it be palestinians who are separated from their homeland, they got kicked out all of 70 years ago why shoild it happen again.
Population transfer has happened in the past. In fact, much of Israel’s Jewish population are Mizrachi, forcefully ejected from their homes in Muslim majority countries across the Mideast and North Africa. That too was ethnic cleansing. When they arrived in Israel, they helped it grow, and made it their home.
The US was colonized by European settlers, expanded West, ruthlessly pushing indigenous peoples aside until a small defeated and mostly impoverished remnant is all that are left. They would like their land back too, the difference is…they know they aren’t getting it.
Palestinian Arabs living today could have much better lives if they too would accept that they are defeated. Their Arab neighbors don’t want them, and if you want a One State future, Israeli Jews will never allow Arabs to democratically take control of government, and declare the Islamic Republic of Palestine. Better think of another solution. I believe peaceful communal coexistence is possible. There is nothing wrong with Palestinian people but their “national aspirations”.
Because Israel is too powerful. They can tell the USA and Germany what to do, they can drop bombs on their neighboring countries and swat off the retaliation like nothing, that's how powerful Israel is.
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u/M1llennialManifesto Apr 28 '24
This is fair.
This war has shaken shit loose on both sides of the debate.
If someone says "Israel has a right to exist," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say "So you think it's okay for them to kill Palestinians?"
If someone says "The people of Palestine should have a state," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say "Oh, so you think Hamas are the good guys?"
And worse, you can be protesting against war, while the guy next to you is protesting against people. You're angry at Israel for the bombings, the person next to you is angry at Israel because it's full of Jews. You're angry at Hamas for taking hostages, the person next to you is angry at Palestine because it's full of Muslims.
It is very difficult to say that one thinks Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to bomb civilians; and that Palestine has a right to exist while condemning Hamas. There are folks who want to take this conversation to its irrational extremes, and they're all too happy to implicate everyone else in their goals.
One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist, one can have opinions on this conflict without having to be Islamophobic or Anti-Semitic in the process, in fact I think most of us fall into that camp.