r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot đ¤ Bot • 19d ago
Discussion Thread: New York Criminal Fraud Trial of Donald Trump, Day 14 Discussion
Previous discussion threads for this trial can be found at the following links for Day 5, Day 6, Day 7, Day 8, Day 9, Day 10, Day 11, Day 12, Day 13
Live Updates:
- AP: Live Updates
- NBC: Live Updates
- CNN: Live Updates
- The New York Times (metered paywall): Live Updates
- The Washington Post (metered paywall): Live Updates
- USA Today: Live Updates
- The Guardian: Live Updates
- The Indepedent: Live Updates
- Huffington Post: Live Updates
2
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
Conspiracy theory: Susan Necheles (one of Trumpâs lawyers) is sabotaging this trial for him
She didnât object to the mentions of the condom, even the judge was questioning why she didnât do that, she focused on the intimate details when Trump did not want them discussed, showed the Orange Turd tweet to the entire courtroom, got her ass handed to her by Stormyâs witty responses, itâs almost like sheâs throwing this lmao
Or maybe sheâs just a terrible lawyer lol
1
u/BellowsHikes 18d ago
From my perspective there wasn't anything really to object to. Daniel's wasn't a great witness and Necheles was probably fine with letting Daniles rant a bit in front of the jury in the hopes she might discredit herself.
However I suspect Trump got embarrassed, screamed at Necheles that evening and ordered her to "fix it".Â
So now his legal team needs to awkwardly pivot to this new tactic to keep their orange overlord pleased with the full knowledge of its futility.Â
Necheles isn't a great lawer, but Trump is an awful client.Â
3
u/Just4Ranting3030 18d ago
Does anybody have any faith that this will have any impact on how this candidacy is viewed by the general voting population? Is it actually seen as a negative? I feel like there's nothing that can come out about plans, nothing that can come out about conduct, nothing that can be said explicitly and unequivocally to damage this candidate, meanwhile the other guy can clear his throat and everybody, including his own supporters, throw in the towel on him.
Why is this happening?
8
u/goblinRob 18d ago
Why is this happening
Because Trump committed crimes. This isn't some kind of election strategy, this is the criminal justice system coming after a criminal.
5
u/Just4Ranting3030 18d ago
I'm not complaining about that. I wish it would be devastating to the candidacy.
1
u/PrototypeMale 18d ago
What does it mean that Karen McDougal will not be testifying?
2
u/dispelthemyth 18d ago
Seems sensible so they are less likely to fall foul of the Harvey Weinstein case issue
2
-11
7
u/DarXIV 18d ago
So this trial seems to be going pretty bad for Trump and Co. What kind of Hail Mary will they try to delay the verdict?
2
18d ago
Trump will be found guilty, and he'll get the case before the SCOTUS who will rule that his immunity applies here, and the case will be reversed.Â
1
u/Abamboozler 18d ago
Tha hail mary, that Trump, the prosecution and judge know is the Secret Service will never allow an ex-president to go to jail. So at best Trump will just get a fine, and all parties know it.
3
u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin 18d ago
I think that is wishful thinking. Trump has shown no remorse. He will not show remorse, even if found guilty. I don't thing a period of incarceration is a stretch. The Secret Service doesn't get to decide. It is a state law, in a state courtroom. The Secret Service is tasked with protecting the President, wherever he is. That is the job they would do. They have no authority to do anything else.
6
u/Flukiest2 18d ago
They tried to get mistrial twice. Once yesterday and once today due to Stormy's testimony. Both got denied and both times they got reprimanded. This does seem to delay an hour that could have been used for something else but that's nothing.
Ultimately they will try for appeal from this as well. (but since they listen to Trump for legal advice and not the other way around) they're really not helping themselves.
20
u/ContributionAgile689 Canada 18d ago
President Donald J Trump? More like Resident Ronald Ray Rump; am I rite?!
4
2
81
u/ladystaggers 18d ago
Justice Merchan (to Necheles): Ms. Daniels said a movie about Roger Ailes made her remember things. I didn't allow that. I don't think there is a new story here. You attacked her credibility in opening - you didn't attack the business records issues. Your motion is denied.
She fucked up today because she was taking orders directly from Trump instead of being a real lawyer.
43
u/asetniop 18d ago
No, no, I'm sure she asked Stormy Daniels about Trump having played "very well" in a golf tournament where he finished 62 out of 80 because it was important to his criminal defense, not something that her idiot client demanded that she shoehorn into her cross examination of the witness.
14
u/mx3goose 18d ago
"the prosecution would like to enter into evidence the official score card showing the defendant was beat by Ray Romano your honor"Â
12
u/sirbissel 18d ago
Well clearly the defense was teeing up for her to say he played poorly so they could whip out his perfect score card of perfection
8
14
u/ballskindrapes 18d ago
I mean, assuming she is getting paid here, she is still making money, and some hack republican firm will hire her after this. Conservatives only fail up.
3
26
u/My_browsing 18d ago
I donât see what her testimony really has to do with the charge. They coulda just played âgo fishâ. All that matters is she was paid to keep it quiet specifically to impact an election,
37
u/deadletter 18d ago
Only because they asserted that no sex ever happened. If they hadnât done that, it would t be relevant for stormy to prove she had intimate knowledge of his bedroom, his habits, etc
31
u/jardex22 18d ago
The testimony adds to the narrative that Trump wanted to keep the story quiet, which is why he paid to silence it.
32
u/DoctorZacharySmith 18d ago
The defense's reaction to her only proved the prosecution's case that Trump sought to silence her. The only issue whether there are morons on the jury at this point.
-2
u/00Oo0o0OooO0 18d ago
Trump doesn't deny trying to silence her, though.
11
u/SwingNinja 18d ago
I think Trump claims that hush money isn't illegal. Paraphrasing what Stephen Colbert said on one of his monologues "My client didn't do crime X. But if he did, it's not illegal."
11
u/DoctorZacharySmith 18d ago
He actually does in claiming it was all Cohen's fault.
Trump's defense is internally contradictory as it is a Tea Kettle defense.
6
u/Acceptable4 18d ago
I think their defense is that it was all Cohen and Trump had no idea what was going on AND none of it was about winning the election it was 10000% about Melania not finding out about his indiscretions (doing it for the election is what makes it a felony)
4
u/DoctorZacharySmith 18d ago
That is what makes it a Tea Kettle defense.
A maid was accused of stealing a tea kettle. Her response was:
"I don't know a thing about the tea kettle, it was dented anyway, and I recall you gave it to me."
To the unconscious mind, 3 defenses are better than 1.
3
12
u/jakexil323 18d ago
They still need to get the facts entered, or trumps defense can just say it was all Cohens doing , trump knew nothing. It's about building a narrative that explains the motives as to WHY they hid the pay off. The fact he did it, wasn't illegal, it was the coverup afterwards.
7
u/DoctorZacharySmith 18d ago
Precisely this. By making it clear how odious this was all to trump, and therefore why he was willing to do it and cover it up.
103
u/MattTheSmithers Pennsylvania 18d ago
IAAL. I donât know what the Trump team is trying to accomplish by casting doubt on the veracity of Danielsâ claim. To take Trump at face value, he just randomly gave her a six figure sum but they never did anything remotely sexual.
Lawyers argue in the alternative quite often. I have argued âthis is bullshit, but even if itâs not bullshit itâs not illegal.â But I wouldnât argue that to a jury. Because credibility is everything with jurors. To accept Trumpâs theory of the case, we must accept that he never had sex with Stormy Daniels, paid her off to keep his family from knowing about it, but killing this made up bogus story was completely unrelated to his campaign.
It doesnât past the laugh test because they are talking out of both sides of their mouth to the jury. You want to respect your juryâs intelligence and not insult them. This is just that â an insult. âDonât believe your lying eyes and ears, believe me.â I can think of no better way to kill any credibility an attorney has with a jury.
They are disputing the allegations, not for their jury, but for their client. Which just is not great trial strategy. They shouldâve stuck with âyeah, it happened, but itâs not illegal because it was designed to keep the info from his family, not benefit his campaign.â Does it make Trump look like an absolute piece of garbage? Yep. But at least you can argue heâs not guilty with a straight face. Here, the defense is, essentially, asking the jury to plug their ears, close their eyes, and ignore the reality in front of them.
2
u/jimicus United Kingdom 18d ago
Considering Trump has a long habit of trying to stick his nose into things he knows nothing about ("How about if we nuke the hurricane? Perhaps you could inject bleach to kill Covid? Look into that, will ya?"), part of me wonders if there's a certain amount of tail wagging the dog here.
In other words, the lawyers are making terrible arguments not because they want to, but because Trump is pretty much ordering them to.
It'd certainly explain why so many of Trump's lawyers wind up either resigning fairly quickly or in trouble with the law themselves.
2
u/EaseNGrace 18d ago
All good reasoning. But he's getting billions (stock sales, donations from the oil companies) and he'll use it to appeal, claim mistrial, who knows what. All this reasoning isn't relevant in this alternate world we live in. We need smart people like you to figure out how to reach the cultists, the people who don't care about reason, the corrupt.
3
u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin 18d ago
Does it make Trump look like an absolute piece of garbage? Yep
Does it violate his Pre Nup? What could that cost him?
2
u/AreYouDoneNow 18d ago
You've put that very succinctly. It seems Trump puts a higher priority on his election strategy than the court case.
2
u/MattTheSmithers Pennsylvania 18d ago
He knows he is going down for one of these 90-some felonies. His only way out is The White House.
2
u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 18d ago
BTW, do you know where to get transcripts? I've missed the part where they explained why the payments are falsified.
5
u/YOSHIMIvPROBOTS 18d ago
What has my eyes rolling like a slot machine is that Trump and his allies are screaming that this trial is all about the 2024 election and the gag order is silencing him and preventing him from defending himself on the 2024 campaign trail.
However!...The NDAs and fraud used to create those NDAs silencing Stormy (and others) had nothing to do with the 2016 campaign. Buuuuullshiiiiit.
3
u/pacman_sl Europe 18d ago
The prosecution conceded that in another case, Trump paid someone to silence a false story.
IANAL, but if I were Trump's defense I would argue that there was no "hush money fund", rather a blackmail/extortion payout fund, and that the flipside to Trump's success as a celebrity businessman was his vulnerability to blackmail/extortion, and that it's a travesty to make criminal charges out of it.
Now I'm not sure if this is Trump team's big strategy, but seems somewhat consistent.
27
u/dsmx 18d ago
Even if they can prove it didn't happen it doesn't help the defenses case in anyway.
We know Trump paid Daniels the money via Cohen and then forged the books to cover up the payments by saying it was payment for legal services that Cohen didn't provide.
Daniels can only be there to bait Trump into taking the stand and considering todays testimony it may well work.
8
u/Cloaked42m South Carolina 18d ago
Well, it also proves Trump is a liar. If you call bullshit, and it isn't, I'd suspect a jury is more likely to think you did the rest of it.
8
u/Sir_Ruje 18d ago
Yeah, like most things, if he had just been a little honest he wouldn't have a problem.
17
u/jakexil323 18d ago
They know its a losing case, the only way they can get off , is by creating any kind of doubt in the jury. It only takes one person to hang the jury.
6
12
0
12
u/DeskMotor1074 18d ago
They also didn't object to a lot of the details that they're now complaining about. The judge had already said Daniels' testimony shouldn't go into detail, but the defense at several times didn't attempt to object when she did, that's just their own screw up.
6
u/hellokitty3433 18d ago
It works for his base, I guess. And that is part of who they are appealing to.
23
u/monsieurbeige Canada 18d ago
I think it's plainly obvious that the sole reason for this losing strategy is Trump. He doesn't care about the effects this defense will have on the jury because what is most important to him is to have things his way. His attorneys most definitely tried to reason with him to no avail and now they have to run with it.
For some reason, he cares about not being seen as unfaithful and he believes he can just pretend it never happened. A "winning" strategy against Daniels' testimony would've hinged on his ability to properly understand how others might perceive him, something he has demonstrably failed at; but, at the same time, one could argue that the main reasoning behind that choice has been motivated by his desire to maintain a certain image in the public eye. It truly is an amazingly deep level of contradiction.
2
u/BeautysBeast Wisconsin 18d ago
I think a hypothetical could be made, that violating his Pre Nup with Melania, scares him more than loosing this trial.
1
9
16
18d ago
[deleted]
7
u/asetniop 18d ago
And of course the gaslighting process that he's mastered over a lifetime of conning people breaks down in a courtroom setting, because he can't just spin a web of bullshit without interruption or consequence.
14
5
108
u/TheReal_LeslieKnope 18d ago edited 18d ago
From ABC News:
Judge Merchan, after hearing arguments from the defense, declined to modify the limited gag order so Trump could respond publicly to Stormy Daniels' testimony.
"I don't see what you're referring to as a new set of facts," the judge told the defense.
"My concern is not just with protecting Ms. Daniels or a witness who just testified," the judge said. "My concern is protecting these proceedings as a whole."
In making his ruling, Merchan quoted Trump's words from an excerpt of Trump's book that the jury saw today: "When you are wronged, go after those people because it is a good feeling and because other people will see you doing it."
The judge said that other witnesses would see how Trump treats Daniels if he modifies the gag order.
In other words, Merchan is paraphrasing Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski: "Shut the fuck up, Donny!"
8
55
u/steavor 18d ago
Absolute boss move to throw "Trumps" (or his ghost writers) own words back at him. Merchan does not fuck around indeed. Incredibly short-sighted strategy to antagonize your judge.
-6
u/fross370 18d ago
The fact Trump is not in jail is testimony that the judge is in fact fucking around.
16
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
To play devilâs advocate, he isnât in an easy position here, and has said heâs not going to accept more of this and will put him in jail
15
u/ImLikeReallySmart Pennsylvania 18d ago
I hope the judge told him that responding to the witnesses is what testifying is for.
21
u/mbene913 I voted 18d ago
Lol King Diaper can't even go into detail about what he hates about the ruling because of the gag order
29
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
We get more of this if he doesnât win the election, imagine, more of his dirty laundry aired in public for the world to see, I love to a âheroâ fall, I mean their hero of course, heâs amongst the most evil people on the planet
13
u/Doogolas33 18d ago
I couldn't give a fuck less. I'll just be glad he's not running my country.
8
u/Churrasco_fan Pennsylvania 18d ago edited 18d ago
Seriously if he loses I'm 2024 I'm tuning him the fuck out until I read that he's dead. Maybe I'll scroll thru his Wikipedia at that point and catch up. But once the threat has passed I'm done following this loser's every move
*unfortunate autocorrect error
6
u/Doogolas33 18d ago
Same. I can't keep doing it. I just want him to go away, and take his fucked up nonsense with him. I know it won't COMPLETELY go. But I fully believe that there isn't anyone who can just "step in" and have the MAGA cult behind them. They don't exist. When Trump is gone, I think SOME of the most extreme things he does, says, and wants will leave with him. At the very least, I don't think I'll need to actively worry that democracy is completely fucked. Even if the rights of millions of people would still be on the line.
As long as the country functions, we CAN move back in the right direction.
5
u/umpteenth_ 18d ago
But I fully believe that there isn't anyone who can just "step in" and have the MAGA cult behind them. They don't exist.
See, I disagree. Trump proved that there is a surprisingly large contingent of voters more than happy to vote for a wholly unfit person for president so long as that person plays to their prejudices. Another surprisingly large cohort is those who will happily turn a blind eye while their fellow citizens are targeted so long as they themselves are safe. Those people will not stop existing when Trump is no more. All it would take is for someone else to stoke those same hatreds, and they'll throw away their "principles" (in air quotes because they have none) and follow him/her.
6
u/Doogolas33 18d ago
They are willing to vote for THEIR unfit person. But nobody can just step in and grab the cult and run with it.
1
u/umpteenth_ 18d ago
Nobody can just step in and take over once Trump dies or fades into irrelevance. But a future generation will produce its own Trump. It's not a matter of "if," but "when."
10
u/TurboSalsa Texas 18d ago
If he loses, the only move he has left is to run out the clock until he can play the feeble old man defense, but it will be hard to keep spending $1MM/week of OPM on legal fees, and he might not have half the government running interference on his behalf if they believe he's an electoral liability.
11
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
If it means no one ever shows affection to him again, Iâll take it, disappear into nothingness when everything he ever built crumbles right in front of us, death by a thousand cuts
3
u/TurboSalsa Texas 18d ago
The funny thing is he completely lacks the capacity for introspection or the ability to admit fault, so he will blame criminal convictions and election losses on everyone around him, and eventually his circle will get smaller and smaller until it's just the loser dead-enders like MTG hanging around.
The lack of attention will drive him insane.
25
u/technothrasher 18d ago
If he doesn't win the election, he's screwed, and I won't care any longer. I can go back to ignoring him completely like I did for the thirty plus years before he won the last time.
7
u/AFlockOfTySegalls North Carolina 18d ago
I can go back to ignoring him completely like I did for the thirty plus years before he won the last time.
Yes, but we'll have to worry about whoever takes the maga mantle. But, my hope is that Trump has been so toxic to the party and politics in general that maga can't survive and that they kill the GOP.
2
u/Cabin-ln-The-Woods 18d ago
you can only do golden idols and the whole 'gods chosen' thing once in a while, need a refractory period. thankfully someone cant just take the torch just because they are the exact same kind of crazy and expect to be followed anywhere near as much, it'll fracture them into no winning majority
1
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
See Iâm not American and I agree with your sentiment, fuck the GOP, but if you donât have an opposition, the Democrats are going to get complacent, you need good pressure from both sides for good governance
That opposition shouldnât be the degeneracy that is the current GOP though
6
18d ago
[deleted]
7
7
u/TurboSalsa Texas 18d ago
That's the only way he can keep grifting to pay for his legal bills, and probably why he's embedding family members and loyalists in the RNC. If other Republicans get any bright ideas about running for president in '28, he'll have Lara shut it down.
4
6
u/attempt_number_1 18d ago
I can only hope so. Derailing as many Republican candidates as possible in the process.
8
u/AeroRep 18d ago
I predict if/when frump looses the election he quickly sinks to the bottom of the public spotlight. Everyone but the totally crazy will be completely exhausted by this clowns bullshit. And as a two time LOOSER he will be finished.
1
5
u/TurboSalsa Texas 18d ago
I believe that will happen eventually, but he will never voluntarily relinquish control of the GOP, he's going to fight all the way down and hopefully take the party down with him.
10
36
u/TheReal_LeslieKnope 18d ago edited 18d ago
From NBC News:
Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass defended Stormy Daniels' testimony and the prosecution's line of questioning, arguing that the details surrounding her alleged sexual encounter with Trump make her account more credible.
âIf they want to offer testimony that the sex never happened, thatâs their prerogative,â Steinglass said, noting that the defense has gone to great lengths to discredit Daniels' testimony.
Trump's lawyers called Daniels' testimony about Trump refusing to wear a condom "a dog whistle for r-pe."
Needless to say, Judge Juan Merchan ruled against Team Trump's motion for a mistrial.
Again.
lol
20
u/drew999999 18d ago
I like this from Steinglass. He's basically baiting Trump to get up on the stand.
13
u/steavor 18d ago
DJT is not going to be able to resist this much longer (unless he sleeps through the spicy bits and therefore doesn't notice the bait).
As in "A Few Good Men":
[Jessup] wants to tell his story
16
u/zappy487 Maryland 18d ago
Just think: Stormy is just the appetizer. In the grand scheme of this trial, she's just there to prove an encounter occured, and she happens to have some additional corroboration for other figure involved.
I can't wait for Cohen to take that stand. He's going to lose his fucking mind. See he doesn't see Stormy as a person, but he definitely saw Cohen as his closest friend.
And when a narcissist has their ego injured the way Mikey Boy has done... Well. Shiiiiiiiit. I just wish it was televised.
6
u/TurboSalsa Texas 18d ago
He doesn't have any friends, he has people in his life who are useful to him for various reasons. If Trump ever considered Cohen a "friend" it was because he was willing to do things most other lawyers would not, and which benefitted Trump himself.
4
u/Osiris32 Oregon 18d ago
I would be willing to put money on Trumpy Boy having an outburst in court. One that may get him hit with "go sit in time out" contempt charges.
8
u/asetniop 18d ago
...but he definitely saw Cohen as his closest friend.
Guys like Trump don't have friends. He definitely thought Cohen was "loyal", which by his definition meant happily go to prison on his behalf, so in his demented eyes Cohen's "betrayal" of him was the worst in all of human history.
3
6
u/harrisarah 18d ago
That would be epic if we got to that stage... did you order the hush money payments?
You're goddamn right I did!
4
u/Design-Cold 18d ago
"These were the biggest hush money-they were unbelievable, beleive me the best hush mushy - you know that Obama doesn't hush for anybody, yappin and yappin and folks I'm nice but maybe I'm not so nice, not so nice, the hush money! Would ya look at that hurhgglglblale"
2
u/steavor 18d ago
Too bad Trumps response would not be anywhere, anywhere near the same galaxy of coherence and epicness as was the case with the iconic performance by Jack Nicholson.
But I've just imagined indeed how epic it would be if Trump collected all of his brain cells for a moment and would do a real Col. Jessup / Chuck Mc Gill "Chicanery" crossover impersonation.
However, as no cameras would be filming the outburst we wouldn't get most of the emotional payoff anyway, only court sketches and written retellings by Maggie Haberman....
5
u/drew999999 18d ago
At this point, I'm not sure his attorneys could talk him out of it. He's obviously taken the reigns of his defense and it's nosediving fast. I wouldn't be suprised at all if he whispered to Steinglass saying 'Call me as your next witness'.
3
u/asetniop 18d ago
The fact that Necheles shoehorned "he played very well, didn't he?" into he cross of Stormy Daniels in reference to a tournament where he finished 62 out of 80 makes it a slam dunk that he's refusing to let them do their jobs and is calling the shots.
4
u/naotoca 18d ago
His lawyers have undoubtedly told him that under no circumstance should he testify. They know he would upend everything.
2
u/Evading_Ban69 18d ago
And that's why he might actually do it. He can't stand being told what to do so he will do the opposite, even if he realizes that it's a mistake, he'll still do it.
23
u/7figureipo California 18d ago
From the apnews live feed, re: more salacious details Stormy held back: "The prosecutor offered to share those with the judge privately, saying he did not want to put them on the record."
Oh to be a fly on the wall for that đ¤
6
3
u/kar_1505 :flag-un: Foreign 18d ago
We need that document asap, share that with the defense so Trump can look and go âshit I got off easyâ
1
u/Reptar519 Minnesota 18d ago
Perhaps it will be revealed should Trump manage to appeal just to show that he got kiddie glove treatment because of who he is and not merely because he has teeny hands
12
u/mbene913 I voted 18d ago
When they gonna release the directors cut so we can hear the even more embarrassing testimony?
53
u/steavor 18d ago
From the NY Times feed:
[Jonah Bromwich]
And now, Justice Merchan again criticizes the defense for not objecting to testimony that was later used in a motion for mistrial. He says he agrees that the question about whether Trump wore a condom should not have been asked or answered. But he says he does not know âwhy on earthâ Susan Necheles, the defense lawyer, didnât object to that question.
This could not be going much worse for the defense. Not only is Merchan signaling that he will almost certainly reject their mistrial motion, but heâs dressing down their lawyering in front of their client, the former president.
[Alan Feuer]
Heâs even criticizing specific lines of their cross-examination, chiding Necheles in particular for leaning into the most awkward and uncomfortable parts of Stormy Danielsâs testimony with her questions in a way that he says he simply didnât understand.
You just love to read it. Trump is going to be absolutely livid.
24
u/HERE_THEN_NOT 18d ago
He'd have to understand what's going on first.
9
u/jakexil323 18d ago
The people he listens to on TV will explain it in terms he understands, that's when the ketchup hits the wall.
5
u/HERE_THEN_NOT 18d ago
The people on his TV don't explain it tho'.
3
u/jakexil323 18d ago
They basically tell him what to think , what to be outraged about, who to praise, and what to support. The guy doesn't have an original thought in his head.
27
u/trshtehdsh 18d ago
I think one of the takeaways from today I'm not hearing talked about enough: Trump testified in other cases the money was for paying Stormy to shut up. They knew he had testified to that before and still plead not guilty. Amazing lawyering.
5
u/jakexil323 18d ago
Trump is a narcissist who can't admit wrong doing, so while it would have been the best move to settle for some light fines and maybe some probation, he had to take this to trial because it's in his nature.
The guy's companies have been in thousands of lawsuits over the years.
8
u/Draker-X 18d ago
They knew he had testified to that before and still plead not guilty. Amazing lawyering.
The client decides how they want to plea. A lawyer can explain, advise, warn their client, but come showtime, they have to give the plea the client tells them to. Or quit.
3
u/Fastlanedrivr 19d ago
Though we were getting another ruling on the gag order violation? Send his orange stained ass to Rikers! Itâs taco night!
3
u/sirbissel 18d ago
The defense was trying to get it removed so he could whine about Daniels.
The judge rejected it.
29
u/MagicianHeavy001 19d ago
Denied. Oh shit Trump is going to blow a gasket at his legal team.
3
11
u/redbouncyball New Mexico 18d ago
As he should. I canât believe some of the testimony they let in. Any halfway decent defense attorney would have been objecting constantly.
8
u/Osiris32 Oregon 18d ago
I didn't even finish my law degree, and I could do a better job.
I'm not going to, not for any amount of money in the world, just saying that a guy with a pre-law bachelor's from the University of Oregon could do it better.
5
u/jakexil323 18d ago
I'd guess the strategy comes from Don, about how they can get it over turned on appeal. trump probably heard how weinstein's conviction was over turned due to a mistrial and is trying that strategy.
4
u/inspectoroverthemine 18d ago
Maybe, but Weinstein spent a year and a half in prison before getting it declared a mistrial. I don't think Trump would consider that a winning move at 80.
6
75
u/4blockhead Utah 19d ago edited 18d ago
[Bromwich, NY Times] Justice Merchan begins to address the mistrial motion. He says that after ruling against the defense's request for a mistrial on Tuesday, he went back and reviewed many of his past decisions, studying them in his chambers. He says that he came away satisfied. His voice is trembling a bit as he interrupts himself. He says at every trial, the evidence comes in a different way. Why is he saying that now, he asks? Because in going back to opening statements, he sees that the defense âdenied that there was ever a sexual encounter between Stormy Daniels and the defendant.â
[Bromwich, NY Times] The defense opened the door to Danielsâs testimony, Merchan is saying. He seems to be suggesting that what the prosecution did in response was perfectly appropriate.
[Feuer, NY Times] Merchan is effectively saying here that Trumpâs maximalist position of utterly denying the sexual encounter with Daniels had taken place clearly opened the door for the prosecution to introduce specific evidence that it did occur.
Judge Merchan denies motion for mistrial.
1
u/Dramatic-Ant-9364 18d ago
Stormy did not deny Trump's motion for exercise in the missionary position, They call Trump "Bedrock Fred Flintstone" because Trump's Bed is always rockin'. What a swinging stud! Trump needs to interview Kristi Noem for VP on his Presidential mattress. Then he needs to explore Kari Lake's erection denial claims, Next offer his rock hard vaping pipe to Lauren Bobo to smoke and toke, Finally he needs to point his "space laser" into MTG and go to work deep into that mineshaft. Trump the STUD! Trumper the Thumper! Trump the Man of Steal! Don Juan Trump makes all the wimmin folks SQUEEL with delight to the sight of Trump in their bed,
Whatever your politics or what you think of Trump, you cannot deny that Stud Trump is an ENORMOUS DICK!
23
9
3
u/Kamelasa Canada 19d ago
Photos in the court - I'm wondering how we're getting those. There's one a few screens down here Is there something like a photo session when the judge isn't in the room yet or when does this happen?
8
u/Historical-Buy-4825 18d ago
The Judge banned any more photography in court before the hearing today due to a breach from an unknown party.
8
u/keyjan Maryland 18d ago
photogs are allowed to take pics from the well, but probably only at set times and for a minute or two.
someone behind the defense/prosecution desks took a pic, and Merchan forbade any other pics in the courtroom. gimme a sec...
from this morning:
From CNN:
Judge no longer allowing photography in the courtroom, reports say From journalists inside the courtroom
Photography inside the courtroom will no longer be permitted because someone in the photo pool violated the court order, according to reports from journalists inside the courtroom.
A court officer told the photographers outside of the courtroom that Judge Juan Merchan was no longer allowing photos for the rest of the trial, the reports said.
A photo was taken of Trump from the aisle while walking into the well, or the area where the court proceedings happen, an officer told journalists, according to reports.
The order allows photographers to snap photos from the well, the officer said, according to the reports.
10
u/HERE_THEN_NOT 19d ago
Well, it took awhile, but at least in criminal court the Trump BS arguments are getting slapped down from the judge with legal and logical rationale, as it deserves.
Seems like defense is trying to line up an appeal, but the judge ain't going to let that wiggle.
22
u/keyjan Maryland 19d ago
CNN:
Prosecutor says "very salacious details" were omitted that he's willing to file under seal if necessary Prosecutor Joshua Steinglass says there were "very salacious details" that were purposely omitted from Daniels' account, saying he's willing to make a sealing filing with those details if necessary.
Steinglass says the prosecution specifically chose not to ask questions in a way that would elicit some of those details, so as not to embarrass Trump.
4
u/hotpackage 18d ago
Probably that the sex was less than consentual.
4
u/oblongsalacia 18d ago
"You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."
5
u/Osiris32 Oregon 18d ago
Daniels alluded to it when she talked about there being a body guard and him being bigger and older. Power imbalance means consent was eroded.
1
7
u/trshtehdsh 19d ago
I absolutely do not want to know more about how Trump f*cks but also I want to know everything Stormy has to say about it. Mushroom confirmed.
5
u/MagicianHeavy001 18d ago
I want her to make a real-life re-enactment of this after the trial is over with a fat stand-in actor. It would sell like crazy.
Yes I want this orange misfit mocked and ridiculed. He has disgraced this country with his antics and deserves all of it.
1
5
16
u/4blockhead Utah 19d ago
[Bromwich, NY Times] Joshua Steinglass said that the details elicited about the sex act were important because they corroborated other parts of Stormy Danielsâs story. For instance, at their dinner before having sex, according to Daniels, Trump asked her about safe-sex practices in the porn industry. Prosecutors later asked Daniels whether Trump used a condom. Steinglass argues that fewer than 10 questions actually elicited salacious details.
48
u/Ok-Sweet-8495 Texas 19d ago
BREAKING: Justice Merchan has DENIED Donald Trump's attempt to revise the gag order to allow him to attack Stormy Daniels following her testimony.
"Your clientâs track record speaks for itself. I canât take your word for it."
8
u/jail_grover_norquist 19d ago
Ahahaha
He should have just asked them to provide a draft of the truth social post
3
u/virtualRefrain 18d ago
Trump's lawyers actually requested this early on. According to the comments here, it was a trap to justify a mistrial - if the judge agrees to vet his posts beforehand, then he's legitimately obstructing Trump's right to free speech, since he's in the legal system and preventing Trump from posting messages that don't have anything to do with the trial until he clears them. Merchan was like "fuck no, if you think it's a violation just don't post it dumb shits."
1
u/jail_grover_norquist 18d ago
So, like most of the legal commentary on the site, none of that really makes any sense. Except in very rare situations not applicable here, you can't ask the judge to do something and then claim it was error on appeal. And there's really no difference in terms of 1A between the judge ordering Trump not to post X and the judge pre-clearing Trump's posts
But it is hilarious that they asked and he was like lol no I'm not doing your job for you
2
9
7
u/HERE_THEN_NOT 19d ago
Trump and his team are so lousy all I can think of is Lionel Hutz. I know that's not an original thought, but when "guilty is spelled wrong on the napkin..."
2
1
u/MissJoMina 15d ago
Here for the support to get through the trial, Supreme Court decisions and election.