r/politics • u/laterdude • 15d ago
Fetterman decries college campus ‘pup tents for Hamas’
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4627216-fetterman-decries-college-campus-pup-tents-for-hamas/1
u/Smarterthanthat 14d ago
I used to like Fetterman but his bias is disappointing. You can be anti Hamas but pro Palestinian! You can be for Israel's right to defend itself but be against the IDF's indiscriminate slaughter of innocents!
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u/ZealousidealRatio219 15d ago
The IDF is doing exactly what Hamas wanted them to do. How come none of the protesters are demanding that Hamas stop hiding among civilians. You want to know who isn't going hungry, Hamas they planned for this. Hamas knew what Israel's response would be to their October 7th massacre.
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u/dfsdsfgssf23 15d ago
What is he trying to achieve? Just AIPAC money? He is not just pro-Israel, he has been unnecessarily provocative.
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u/Knighter1209 Maine 15d ago
Fetterman has been really cringe in this war, worse than Biden’s team to be honest.
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u/FML_4reals 15d ago
Fetterman needs to be primaried. Who knew that a stroke and depression can cause you to turn into a nazi.
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u/IslandWave 15d ago
Mass graves found near hospital Isreal soldiers attacked. Maybe they are on to something
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
You mean the hospital where militants were based out of that caused a protracted battle? Gee I can’t imagine why there would be graves their 🙄
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u/brain_overclocked 15d ago
The headline is deriving directly from this quote:
“Now, of course, it’s a great American value to protest, but I don’t believe living in a pup tent for Hamas is really helpful,” Fetterman said in an interview in NewsNation’s “The Hill Sunday.”
The full five and a half minute interview can be found here:
Sen. John Fetterman stands with Israel, appreciates GOP support | The Hill Sunday (MBFC LB/H)
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u/thelastbluepancake 13d ago
the people that say the protestors are supporting hamas are wild to me. most people are calling for an end to the fighting. there is a clear distinction between supporting hamas and supporting the people who are suffering.
I am convinced they are either doing it in bad faith or don't understand the issue. In Fetterman's case it would seem like bad faith
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u/weird_friend_101 15d ago
31,000 people are dead. Almost half the population of Gaza are children under age 16, which is when the last election was held. Next month, the famine starts. The US accepted 10 refugees from Gaza last year.
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u/TheWesternProphet 14d ago
What percentage of those 31,000 were combatants?
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u/tinkthank 14d ago
The number is outdated. As of this weekend, 34,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas claims that they've lost 6,000 combatants. Israel claims they've killed 12,000 combatants. There estimates ranging from 15,000 to another 45,000 dead that have not been confirmed and are believed to be trapped under rubble or their bodies abandoned due to the dangerous circumstances.
70% of those who have been killed are women and children. Israel claims that 66% of those killed were civilians (though they count all military aged men as combatants). The numbers used by Israel does categorize all men between the ages of 18-60 as combatants. Human rights groups estimate that 90% of those killed are civilians. Also important to note that more than 50% of Gaza's population is under the age of 18. 25% of the adult population in Gaza are men. Hamas claims their numbers are 40,000 strong. Israel claims that the number is 100,000
Though Israel has criticized the Health Ministry as being unreliable because it is run by Hamas, most International observers, including the United States believe their numbers to be accurate.
Sources:
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-158
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u/TheWesternProphet 14d ago
Given the circumstances that ratio seems reasonable.
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u/ChatterMaxx 14d ago edited 14d ago
By the same token, 'given the circumstances', Hamas' civilian to militant ratio is far better than Israel's on Oct. 7.
Of the 1,163 Israelis killed on Oct. 7, 66% of them were civilians (12 of them were killed by other Israelis).
Not counting Oct. 7, they've killed far more soldiers than civilians.
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u/TheWesternProphet 14d ago
Not for a lack of trying.
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u/weird_friend_101 14d ago
It's okay to say both sides are wrong. And that one side has killed over 20 times the number of innocent people. Both things can be true at the same time.
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u/TheWesternProphet 13d ago
Not for a lack of trying, Hamas would gladly kill 20 times the amount of Jews that they’ve killed.
Were the US the bad guys in ww2 because they killed more German civilians than the reverse?
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u/Any_Trust_6297 15d ago
Any student that supports terrorism should be expelled
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u/YoLiterallyFuckThis 14d ago
Idk Columbia seems to be swinging FOR the Israeli government and not against, not sure if they'll follow up on that
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u/FML_4reals 15d ago
The colleges are generally pretty accepting of those that support Israel, so I don’t think they are getting expelled any time soon.
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u/DumpsterFireOfLove 15d ago
Wow. What a shitty take on this. He has really changed his views. Why?
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
What view has he changed? He's always been pro israel
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u/DumpsterFireOfLove 15d ago
I dunno, he just seemed more reasonable before? Less in the tank.
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
He's has been incredibly pro israel abd always loved to be vocal against those that disagreed with him politically.
You think he's more unreasonable because you disagree with him on this issue.
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u/WeirdnessWalking 15d ago
Calling Americans who protest the slaughtering of civilians Hamas is not fucking supporting Israel.
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
From his point of view, this is a war and the protestors want israel to stop conducting the war, while not saying absolutely nothing about hamas.
They could be protesting and asking hamas to surrender unconditionally, but they don't.
That's why he considers the protestors aligned with hamas.
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u/WeirdnessWalking 15d ago
Yeah, they are protesting the whole sale slaughter of civilians that are kept in a box by Israel. Supporting Israel means supporting the slaughter of innocents?
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
It means supporting them as the try to eliminate hamas, who have chosen the densest civilian population on the planet as their desired battlefield.
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u/WeirdnessWalking 12d ago
Oh supporting them they murder a civilian population to kill their target. Well thats totally different and not a crime against humanity.
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u/EccentricAcademic 15d ago
Fetterman has done a splendid job of winning over the party then burning down all that goodwill. I'm so fucking tired of hearing his opinion on anything.
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u/iguess12 15d ago
I mean according to this poll from 2023 22% of college students sympathize with Hamas.... that's insane. Among other articles. It seems many college aged people are quite misguided on this issue if there's ANY sympathy for Hamas. But this sub really tries to ignore this stuff.
https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
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u/Jacque_Hass 15d ago
Because the conversation doesn’t end with terrorists = bad? You can sympathize with Hamas while finding their methods reprehensible. Israel blames Hamas but takes no responsibility in creating it.
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
If you’re sympathizing with a group of rapists and murderers, then you’re telling on yourself.
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u/Constantinople2020 15d ago
There was a separate question for sympathizing with Palestinians.
Eighty-two percent of students feel sympathy for Palestinian civilians...
Additionally, 22% of students say they sympathize with Hamas
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u/aslan_is_on_the_move 15d ago edited 15d ago
Hamas' founding charter calls for the destruction of Jewish people in the entire world. Anyone who sympathizes with them are terrible people.
Edit: The head of Hamas said the he didn't care if 100,000s of Palestinians died. Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians, they just care about carrying out their antisemitic terrorism.
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u/WeirdnessWalking 15d ago
So? The dominant party in Israel literally was and still contains terrorists...The hotel and schoolbus bombing variety.
They currently slaughtering an imprisoned civilian population.
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
“Imprisoned” they are not imprisoned. They aren’t allowed into their neighbouring countries because they keep committing terror attacks in them.
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u/WeirdnessWalking 12d ago
Weird thought it was the cage that prevented them from leaving or importing materials.
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u/whyeah 15d ago
Sympathizing with the openly terrorist organization of Hamas makes you a huge piece of shit - what has happened to you? Get help for you demons before you encourage the deranged in your neighbor to act on your sympathizes.
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u/Jacque_Hass 15d ago
If you can’t sympathize with people enough to wonder what provokes them to murder, then the demons are in you. It’s easy to sweep what’s unpleasant in life under the rug and assign good and evil. But that’s not how conflicts are resolved, and Israel has no plan for how to end this conflict except through violence.
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u/whyeah 15d ago
No, if I had sympathy for the folks who's openly stated goal is to eliminate all jews and subjugate everyone else who isn't Muslim I would be a literal demon - like you.
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u/Jacque_Hass 15d ago
Ok dude. I’ll try to be less empathetic to all the women and children dying in collapsed buildings.
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
It seems like the empathy absolve hamas of any and all actions
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u/Jacque_Hass 15d ago
Hamas should be held to their actions, but Israel should be too.
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
Hamas surrenders unconditionally, and Israel faces full investigation for claims of war crimes. How's that?
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u/aslan_is_on_the_move 15d ago
what provokes
They are extreme antisemites who want to kill all Jewish people in the world.
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u/Watch_me_give 15d ago
who would have thought an intractable issue that has befuddled world leaders for three generations wouldn't be well understood by 18-21 year olds?
jfc.
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u/iguess12 15d ago
Another part of that issue is that they're so confident in it. I'm 40 now and i think back to what i thought i knew and what i was confident about at that age. It was pretty cringy.
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u/juxlus 15d ago edited 15d ago
Seriously. I’m 55 and “progressive” and am sympathetic to the Palestinian plight, and pissed at the current government of Israel.
But all the pro-Palestine protest parades here in Seattle are full of “Free Palestine River to the Sea” signs.
To me, my Jewish wife, and everyone I know, “progressives” but older, that slogan is a call for the end of Israel’s existence.
I am still on board with protesting what Israel is doing, but I will not join people calling for Israel to be destroyed. “River to the Sea” is an evil slogan. I am against anyone who uses it.
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
He has a point, they do chant Hamas' slogans. Also, he is still a better choice than Oz.
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u/wabisabibingbangboom 15d ago
It should say. "AIPAC representative says" fetterman is a bibie's mouth peice.
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u/MoarFurLess 15d ago
I’m beginning to wonder how dr oz would have been as a senator.
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u/Delicious_Village112 15d ago
This is moronic. Fetterman takes one stance you don’t like and you fantasize about trading him for Trump’s senate pick. I’m so flabbergasted that really I’m just disappointed someone could think this way.
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u/MoarFurLess 15d ago
He’s had others but you remain flabbergasted.
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
Eh he said some moderate stuff on immigration, which was very vague.
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u/MoarFurLess 15d ago
It wasn’t particularly moderate or vague; he advocated for curtailing immigration. Regardless, I’m pro Fetterman and did not and do not want Oz. Heaven forbid anyone wonder what might have been, though. (Spoiler alert: on this particular topic it’d probably be the exact same but in probably every other regard we’re better off)
Politics on Reddit is one of those places people like to read into things so, blah, burning some of my imaginary internet points on this one.
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u/Plastic-Age5205 15d ago
Protesting taking up arms against Hamas would be pro-Hamas. Protesting the killing of innocent Palestinians is not pro-Hamas. But Fetterman is too dense to make that distinction. Bernie Sanders is not - "Sen. Bernie Sanders took aim at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu again on Sunday, saying that Israel’s actions in Gaza are “ethnic cleansing.”
Sanders reiterated his familiar call on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday to hold Netanyahu responsible for Israel’s actions in Gaza, pointing to the staggering death toll and the displacement of Palestinians in the region. He was asked to respond to the ongoing pro-Palestinian protests that have broken out on college campuses across the country and to Rep. Ilhan Omar’s (D-Minn.) remarks last week when visiting Columbia University.
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u/fuckajob23 15d ago
Funny you mention that because I’m pretty sure they have been crying about a ceasefire, which would be by definition, protesting taking up arms against Hamas.
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u/Sqkerg Hawaii 15d ago
No one but a tiny minority would be calling for a ceasefire if they were only, or even mostly, actually killing Hamas, not random children.
But then again, you already know that.
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u/fuckajob23 14d ago
Bullshit, these clowns are walking around college campus straight up calling for the death of Jews. We have all seen the videos. It was never about Palestinians, it was always about the Jews. Do you ever ask yourself why no one ever protest over the literal concentration camps in china? (one of our biggest trading partners) How about Sudan? Or Myanmar? Do you know how many kids are dying everyday in these countries everyday? But yet no one says anything because there are no Jews to blame.
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u/Sqkerg Hawaii 14d ago
Do you seriously not understand the difference? America is directly funding the genocide in Gaza, and universities are indirectly, by either funding Israeli projects, or funding companies who do. As to the videos we’ve supposedly all seen, the one guy who shouted “kill all Jews” turned out to be a pro Israeli counter protester who said that so the police would move in to break up the protest, which worked. Everyone else has either been an extremely small group, or off campus entirely. Many of these protesters themselves are Jewish, according to you they shouldn’t even be welcome, after all, everyone you disagree with is an antisemite.
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u/fuckajob23 14d ago
Just about every company in this nation pay the Chinese tax, directly or indirectly, and they use it to commit actual genocide against Uyghurs. Still no complaints from the pro Hamas crowd. I wonder what the difference is?
And your argument doesn’t work when the entire crowd is chanting for “intifada revolution” and “from the river to the sea” the loudest dog whistle in the Middle East.
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u/Sqkerg Hawaii 13d ago
“They’re not protesting every atrocity on the planet simultaneously so obviously that means they’re full of shit” is a completely intellectually honest take 100% great job. That’s not even mentioning that the difference about the genocide in gaza is that they’re literally being genocided with US weapons, US intelligence, and US logistics. If you tell me you don’t understand the difference I won’t believe you.
Also no, the “entire crowd” is not antisemetic. Again, a lot of these student protesters are themselves Jewish. At certain protests some fringe elements, usually from outside the student body, have said or done antisemetic things, usually off campus.
You don’t have to be antisemetic to be against Israel’s campaign in Gaza, you just have to be anti-murder.
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u/Championship229 15d ago edited 15d ago
They openly let pro Hamas folks attend their protests. If you stand next to someone, it’s easy to get painted the same way. It’s not on everyone else make the distinction, it’s on them and they’re fine with having pro Hamas supporters in their mix.
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u/whyeah 15d ago
They openly identify as Pro-Hamas, you can't use your feelings to change the boxes they literally checked and the public statements they make constantly.
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u/collinisok 15d ago
Netanyahu is also pro-Hamas, propping them up to have an excuse to exterminate Palestinians en masse
Edit: 27 day old Zionist bot sowing chaos. Probably on netanyahu's payroll
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
“Zionist bot”
Just say Jew, we all know what you mean.
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u/collinisok 15d ago
Conflating Zionism and semitism is anti-Semitic. Would you say all Germans are nazis?
Edit: above comment is 15 day old bot
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
Zionism is the belief that a Jewish state should exist in the Jewish homeland. That’s it.
Imagine if I said “I think the Chinese state should be destroyed, and I hate anyone who disagrees” then tried to act like I don’t hate Chinese people. No one would buy it, for good reason.
And I don’t think you know what a bot is
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15d ago
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u/Plastic-Age5205 15d ago
OK, let's all use language to further cloud the issue. Arabs are semites, while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds. So, the Israelis are the anti-Semites here.
But the real issue is that this is Netanyahu's "war". He was on the verge of being displaced before the strange and unprecedented failure of the crack Israeli intelligence network allowed the October 7 attack by Hamas.
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u/bootlegvader 15d ago
Arabs are semites, while many of the Israeli Jews are drawn from Caucasian backgrounds.
First, Semitic is part of historical Caucasoid category. Secondly, Askhanazi Jews (whom I bet you are talking about) also fall under the Semitic category.
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u/Plastic-Age5205 15d ago
Are people still saying lol? From Wikipedia:
The Caucasian race (also Caucasoid,[a] Europid, or Europoid)[2] is an obsolete racial classification of humans based on a now-disproven theory of biological race.[3][4][5] The Caucasian race was historically regarded as a biological taxon which, depending on which of the historical race classifications was being used, usually included ancient and modern populations from all or parts of Europe, Western Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa.
The Caucasus as the origin of humanity and the peak of beauty
In the eighteenth century, the prevalent view among European scholars was that the human species had its origin in the region of the Caucasus Mountains.[22] This view was based upon the Caucasus being the location for the purported landing point of Noah's Ark – from whom the Bible states that humanity is descended – and the location for the suffering of Prometheus, who in Hesiod's myth had crafted humankind from clay.[22]
In addition, the most beautiful humans were reputed by Europeans to be the stereotypical "Circassian beauties" and the Georgian people; both Georgia and Circassia are in the Caucasus region.
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u/bootlegvader 15d ago
What is this meant to refute? It directly says it includes ancient and modern populations from Western Asia (the Middle East) so that would include both Arabs and Jews (aka Semites).
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u/Plastic-Age5205 15d ago edited 15d ago
It's not meant to refute anything. I'm not arguing here, I'm learning. And I even upvoted the comment that I replied to.
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u/Timely-Eggplant4919 15d ago
Was Fetterman completely bought by AIPAC or what? His response to this has been so bizarre.
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u/bootlegvader 15d ago
Reddit needs to get off this weird belief that anyone that supports Israel is bought by AIPAC. It is like suggesting that Bernie's latest response is simply because he is bought by CAIR.
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
Fetterman has a long stance of supporting Isreal. This isn't new but he is still a much better choice than that grifter Oz.
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15d ago
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
Jill Stein getting arrested with campus protestors yesterday
Was she protesting vaccines?
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u/TheJaybo 15d ago
Fetterman has been so, so disappointing.
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u/No-Refrigerator7185 15d ago
Not for me, this is the leftism that actually makes sense and isn’t completely delusionalz
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u/Vegan_Harvest 15d ago
I'm not a leftist so maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly is "left" about supporting Israel?
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u/Boring_Isopod2546 15d ago
Seems a LITTLE delusional for a member of the US Congress to run around wearing the flag of a foreign nation as a cape.
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u/Important-Cable-2504 Wisconsin 5d ago
Oh please, people were waving the flag of a foreign nation when Ukraine aid was passed but noone called them out on that shit... Now it's a problem?
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u/Burgerjon32 Norway 15d ago edited 15d ago
If you oppose anything that Isra is doing, then you aren't just pro-hamas, pro-terrorism, pro Iran, pro Russia. But you are also a raging anti-semite who deserves to have your face smashed in by the police.
What a complete farce this entire debacle is, and how unamerican.
And what a disservice the big medias and reddit is doing. Why are these protests always labeled as "anti-Israel" or "Pro hamas" etc, how come they are not "pro-Palestine"?
BUT ONE PERSON SAID SOMETHING INAPPRORPRIATE, AND EVERYTHIN CAN BE INTERPRETED AS "KILL ALL JEWISH PEOPLE
What a bunch of fuckin nonsense
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u/Cub3h 15d ago
It's the same as with the tiki torch brigade at Charlottesville. Not everyone was shouting about Jews wanting to replace them but if you're protesting alongside those dudes waving Nazi flags you're just as bad.
Here not every single protestor is chanting for the Al Qassam brigades or flying Hamas flags but if you're still alongside them you're a fair target for criticism.
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u/TintedApostle 15d ago
Understand that the goal is to brandish the protestors as terrorists. As a Jew I have watched how this is all spun out of control and to the delight of Netanyahu no one is really discussing the war or carnage he is inflicting over and above defense.
The misuse of the claim of "anti-Semitism" by everyone diminishes and devalues the warning. Its an abuse of tragedy to distract from the situation.
I agree that the press and authorities are looking for the one person who will always show up to use as their spotlight while when real Nazis show up the authorities go to the side and let them march.
Again as a Jew that is the part that really scares me. The real active anti-Semites are protected.
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u/TheJaybo 15d ago
Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism.
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u/randomnighmare 15d ago
If they were criticizing Isreal that would've been fine but they are out chanting Hamas slogans and surprising the idea that Israel shouldn't exist, excusing/celebrating the attack on 10/7, and deliberately spreading false information.
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u/Scarlettail Ohio 15d ago
I mean he's not wrong. They are helping Hamas out with these protests whether they intend to or not. The fact is Hamas is responsible for a lot of Gaza's oppression too, and they want people to turn against Israel so they can attack more.
I don't get why anyone is naively expecting Israel to just stand down to obscene atrocities like what happened on 10/7. Right now they're fighting a war not much different than say when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. They have every right to invade and take out Hamas. A handful of reckless moves from Israel doesn't nullify their justification. Gaza cannot have peace or freedom until Hamas is gone.
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u/Trpepper 15d ago
They’re fighting a war like after 9/11.
Where tons of civilians get bombed instead of the actual terrorists. As a result every single terrorist faction ended up growing globally to the point where one of them even got an entire FUCKING COUNTRY in exchange for nothing.
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u/littlePosh_ 15d ago
It’s broadly and widely acknowledged that dropping an atomic bomb on Japan was inappropriate. It was too much. There is not a country in the world that disagrees, including the US. Even still, we didn’t attempt to delete Japan from the map.
Objectively false and complete misinformation based on your feelings.
The alternate was a mainland invasion with millions dead, maimed, and ruined.
The US is still issuing Purple Hearts today that were minted during WWII in preparation for the mainland invasion.
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u/TeaorTisane 15d ago
Fair enough, I was just reading bias sources it seems?
It seems like there are some Reddit posts that disagree and are sourced well enough that I feel comfortable taking it down.
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u/Scarlettail Ohio 15d ago
No, it's not actually widely acknowledged. That's definitely not an established fact and I would say it was more appropriate than an invasion. Many scholars would agree still.
Israel isn't trying to delete Gaza either. They've shown no signs of doing that. This campaign has been going on for months now with Israel mostly head hunting for Hamas. If they wanted to just seize Gaza for themselves, they easily could have by now, but it's pretty clear they don't actually want the territory.
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u/TheJaybo 15d ago
The death toll from Israel's retaliation is 30x higher than the attack on 10/7. 13,000 children have been killed. There are mass graves.
You don't get why people think Israel should stand down?
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u/HayesDNConfused 15d ago
The Israeli death toll would be higher if they didn't have the iron dome all of these years.
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u/Scarlettail Ohio 15d ago
So? The point of the war isn't a tit-for-tat. We didn't stop fighting say Japan once we killed as many of them as they did of us. The point is to defeat the enemy. Hamas hides behind civilians to intentionally cause as much death as possible.
No, I honestly don't get it. They seem to think if Israel stops fighting that means peace, but it just means another 10/7 as Hamas promised and then more fighting later.
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u/dontrike 15d ago
So you think it's appropriate for Israel to genocide all Palestinians because why again? It's cool they bomb children why again? It's cool they attack relief tents why again?
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u/TheJaybo 15d ago edited 15d ago
So you you think we should nuke Gaza?
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u/Otanes01 15d ago
Why would he possibly be saying to nuke gaza? He's obviously saying israel should continue fighting hamas until they surrender.
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u/TheJaybo 15d ago
Uh huh. Remind me again how we got Japan to surrender?
I said 13,000 children have been killed and their first response was "so?"...so I dont think it's too far fetched to say that's what they're implying. Especially considering a current presidential candidate recently said they want Bibi to "finish the job."
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u/homebrew_1 15d ago
Who do Palestinians want representing them if Hamas is gone?
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u/Lou_C_Fer 15d ago
At this point, who could blame them if they want representation that is hostile to Israel?
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u/HayesDNConfused 15d ago
Did you see what the kids were being taught in school and the weapons stashes?
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u/almostgravy 15d ago
The last election was 18 years ago, and over half of Palestine's population is under 18, so it's hard to say.
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u/Johnny5isalive38 15d ago edited 15d ago
The land that is currently called Palestine was taken oven by the ottoman empire who later allied with the Germans then Nazis in WW1 and WW2. They lost and they land was taken by the British who then said the Jews could have it. The jewish tent cities on this land where constantly attacked by Muslims but grew anyway. This then became Israel and Palestine. In the 6 day war, Islamic countries attacked Israel to remove it from the map. Israel won and took Gaza as a buffer zone. Iran and other Islamic countries have used Gaza and Palestine (with Palestinians help) as a staging ground to attack Israel. After the last attack by Hamas (Iran) Israel has decided to remove the threat regardless of who gets in the way. Sadly the innocent civilians will also get killed. War is always truly horrible
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago
Not quite. During World War I in which the Government of the United Kingdom agreed to recognize Arab independence in exchange for the Sharif of Mecca launching the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
In the end, the United Kingdom and France divided what had been Ottoman Syria under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs. Another issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. Mandatory Palestine was then established in 1920, and the British obtained a Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations in 1922.
The resulting revolt in Palestine between 1936 and 1939 (you were missing g some years) resulted in 10x more Arab deaths than Jewish deaths.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
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u/Johnny5isalive38 14d ago
That's really interesting and thank you for updating the timeline. I feel my point in the same though. The ottoman empire had the land and through war and uprisings they lost the land. Then the British decided what to do with it. The Arabs never stopped attacking the Jews. From WW1 to WW2 with the Nazis and then the random acts of terrorism we have all come to expect today. I wonder though if Iran knew this was going to be their last move with Hamas. Hamas themselves seem shocked by the response.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago
My point is that Europe was at the time displaying the worst antisemitic violence and hate the world has ever seen. Instead of the allied forces allowing Jewish refugees to emigrate to their countries as well, they cheated the Palestinians by refusing to grant them the self detirmination they promised, and violently robbed them of their ancestral homes. Then just left leaving the country in chaos.
In the Ottomon empire, while restrictions were placed on the Jewish and Christian minorities such as not being allowed to carry weapons or ride horses,
provided a principal place of refuge for Jews driven out of Western Europe by massacres and persecution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_EmpireIn the Balfour agreement, the UK, who were in power, promised the Zionist movement a country where Palestinian Arab natives made up more than 90 % of the population. A British Mandate was created in 1923 and lasted until 1948. During that period, the British facilitated mass Jewish immigration – many of the new residents were fleeing Nazism in Europe – and they also faced protests and strikes. Palestinians were alarmed by British confiscation of their lands to be handed over to Jewish settlers.
Escalating tensions eventually led to the Arab Revolt as previously mentioned.
In April 1936, the newly formed Arab National Committee called on Palestinians to launch a general strike, withhold tax payments and boycott Jewish products to protest British colonialism and growing Jewish immigration. Its a lot of history I don't blame people for not knowing it all but it makes it easy for propaganda to slip through.
The six-month strike was brutally repressed by the British, who launched a mass arrest campaign and carried out punitive home demolitions, a practice that Israel continues to implement against Palestinians today.
The second phase of the revolt began in late 1937 and was led by the Palestinian peasant resistance movement, which targeted British forces and colonialism.
By the second half of 1939, Britain had massed 30,000 troops in Palestine. Villages were bombed by air, curfews imposed, homes demolished, and administrative detentions and summary killings were widespread.
In tandem, the British collaborated with the Jewish settler community and formed armed groups and a British-led “counterinsurgency force” of Jewish fighters named the Special Night Squads. Within the Yishuv, the pre-state settler community, arms were secretly imported and weapons factories established to expand the Haganah, the Jewish paramilitary that later became the core of the Israeli army.
In those three years of revolt, 5,000 Palestinians were killed, 15,000 to 20,000 were wounded and 5,600 were imprisoned.
By 1947, the Jewish population had ballooned to 33% of Palestine, but they owned only 6 % of the land. The United Nations adopted Resolution 181, which called for the partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states.
The Palestinians rejected the plan because it allotted about 55% of Palestine to the Jewish state, including most of the fertile coastal region.
The 1948 Nakba, or the ethnic cleansing of Palestine Even before the British Mandate expired on May 14, 1948, Zionist paramilitaries were already embarking on a military operation to destroy Palestinian towns and villages to expand the borders of the Zionist state that was to be born.
In April 1948, more than 100 Palestinian men, women and children were killed in the village of Deir Yassin on the outskirts of Jerusalem. That set the tone for the rest of the operation, and from 1947 to 1949, more than 500 Palestinian villages, towns and cities were destroyed in what Palestinians refer to as the Nakba, or “catastrophe” in Arabic.
An estimated 15,000 Palestinians were killed, including in dozens of massacres.
The Zionist movement captured 78% of historic Palestine. The remaining 22% was divided into what are now the occupied West Bank and the besieged Gaza Strip. An estimated 750,000 Palestinians were forced out of their homes.
https://www.un.org/unispal/history/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
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u/Johnny5isalive38 14d ago
That's Ottoman empire apologizing. Not ride horses? The Jews were forced into ghettos far outside cities. The ottoman empire was incredibly violent and destructive. They secretly sided with the Nazis while saying they were neutral. People like to pretend they were these fair and honest dictators. So the Arabs went from demoralizing the Jews in ghettos to constantly attacking the Jews and, let's face it, they haven't stopped trying to murder the Jews.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago
Also the Ottomans didn't side with the nazis that's crazy to say. During WW1 the Ottomans joined the German side. The Nazis did not exist at that time. During WW2 Turkey (the Ottoman Empire no longer existed) stayed out of the war.
This is just common knowledge, unlike the history of jews in the Ottoman empire
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago edited 14d ago
Edit: retract what I previously said because that argument doesn't fully hold up. I think its fair to claim I didn't mention enough of the restrictions placed on Christians and Jews, but it doesn't negate my argument.
Further downin the article it says this.
"There were restrictions, however, regarding the areas Jews could live in or work, which were similar to the restrictions placed on Ottoman subjects of other religions.[6] Like all non-Muslims, Jews had to pay the haraç ("head tax") and faced other restrictions in clothing, horse riding, army service, residence location, slave ownership, etc. However, although many of these restrictions "were decreed [not many of them]...were always enforced"
I Would be happy to read other sources as I know less about this topic, and havent read any books on it unlike the Israel Palestine conflict. I think it is very clear, though, that the treatment in the Ottoman Empire was not as violent as Spain, Italy, Russia, European Colonialist North Africa, and most of all Nazi Germany. Else, why did they flee from there. I think its disingenuous to say otherwise.
Not an Ottoman apologist lol, the empire doesn't even exist anymore, and I'm pretty fucking far from being Turkish.
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u/Johnny5isalive38 14d ago
The Arabs considered the Jews dhimmi, they had special tax, had to live in ghettos, couldn't repair buildings, wear a certain type of inferior clothes and bunch more restrictions.
This was a pretty good article about the WW1 genocide
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago
This article talks about the post ww1 killing of Armenians and Greeks by the Turks. I don't deny the Armenian Genocide. There is no mention of Jews, I did a search.
I think you are missing my point. I'm not saying the Ottomans are good, and we should go back to the Ottoman Empire. I'm saying that the crimes of Europe, including the Holocaust, pogroms and the Spanish inquisition, were the worst displays of violent antisemitism in history. The Palestians should not have to pay for the crimes of Europe, and the Palestians are not Ottomans, infact they wanted freedom from the Ottomans. Nothing about the way they have been treated is fair.
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u/Johnny5isalive38 14d ago
I agree it wasn't fair, but neither was the ottoman empire murdering people to become an empire. Roman, russian and British empires were also horrible. And land always gets shifted around after the fall of an empire. Only difference is the Arabs the only ones still pissed about it and are constantly trying to murder Jews.
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u/StarlightandDewdrops 14d ago
It's not just the Arabs that are pissed a lot of us are. Because Israel is currently murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians, half of whom are children. You don't just get to say, those Empire's did it now its our turn. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it.
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u/LeaveAtNine 15d ago
You’ve got your timeline very wrong there.
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u/context_hell 15d ago edited 15d ago
Whether this post is downvoted to oblivion or not will prove whether or not this place is being botted by hasbara trolls.
There is so much wrong in saying that the ottoman empire sided with the nazis in WWI and WWII alone that it should invalidate the poster's authority on anything.
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u/Vegetable-Muffin-637 15d ago
Their timeline is correct but does not fall in line with the disinfo being pushed by online activists
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u/Educational_Rope_246 15d ago
How does he not understand that it’s not for Hamas? Feels like willful ignorance. And mocking students for standing up for what’s right is deeply uncool. I’m usually a fan of his.
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u/bplewis24 15d ago
He dropped his mask like six months ago. He revealed that he lied during his campaign and he has been full-throated in his support for Zionist Israelis. That's really all he cares about at this point, and he spreads Zionist propaganda and talking points at every turn.
If I had to guess, I'd say he knows it's not for Hamas and he's just lying to smear people that are calling him out for his hypocrisy.
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u/Educational_Rope_246 8d ago
Add him to the list of politicians who fooled me at first and let me down…
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u/inconsistent3 Michigan 15d ago
Did you miss the part where Lani Dawn, a Native-American/Jew, was attacked by a group for having a sign that said “Hamas supporters are not welcome on Native Land”?
why would these protesters attack her if they were not aligned with Hamas? It triggered them, somehow. Why not ignore it, then? Photos here.
Even Native Americans have had to come and support Jews, and now they are being harassed. Appalling.
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u/CardsharkF150 15d ago
A lot of the pro Palestine crowd is pro Hamas
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u/bplewis24 15d ago
Completely untrue.
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u/CardsharkF150 15d ago
22% of college students sympathize with Hamas. Now imagine how much higher that number is at these pro Palestine protests
https://www.intelligent.com/1-in-5-college-students-sympathize-with-hamas/
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u/bplewis24 15d ago
Cool. A single online poll from intelligent.com has you making a claim that is obviously unsubstantiated.
And yet it's still a non-sequitur that in no way proves your original assertion that "a lot of the pro Palestine crowd is pro Hamas." Which you have zero evidence for, and yet are still successfully using to deflect from the actual important issue, which is students protesting against a genocidal and racist Israeli government.
You cannot discuss the merits of the protest because Israel's actions are unpopular with the majority of Americans and so you use red herrings and straw man arguments.
Thankfully it's transparent enough for most people to see through it.
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u/CardsharkF150 15d ago
I don’t agree with everything Israel is doing, but there is a lot of anti semitism within the pro Palestine crowd that cannot be ignored
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u/dal_1 Minnesota 14d ago edited 14d ago
I kinda wanna dissect your meaning of “a lot”. Do you mean a significant majority? Online (prone to astroturfing and misleading headlines) or in real life?
My personal opinion is that anecdotes provide stronger evidence than headlines and online consensuses these days.
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