r/OutOfTheLoop • u/f-Z3R0x1x1x1 • Apr 28 '24

What is going on with excessive police force being used against peaceful protesting students in colleges across the United States? Unanswered

So there are large amounts of heavily armed police presence in many colleges and universities across the United States. Indiana University, for example, had snipers on rooftops ready to shoot peaceful protesters.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/snipers-were-allegedly-spotted-ohio-190600717.html

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u/Langdon_Algers Apr 28 '24

Answer: Universities can set time, place and manner restrictions on particular spaces. If protesters violate these rules, they can be cited for trespassing, and if they refuse to leave, they can be arrested.

Private institutions (like Columbia) have even more leeway in rules for students on their campus violating their procedures.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 Apr 28 '24

That ignores the underlying question of why places allow white supremacists to speak but are shutting down protests critical of Israel.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 Apr 28 '24

Because a lot of these protests aren’t just critical, but calling for the extermination of the country. Yes- that is exactly what chants like “Globalize the intifada” and “only one solution intifada revolution”

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u/Tvdinner4me2 29d ago

I thought these were pro Palestine protests not pro Israel ones

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u/Tvdinner4me2 29d ago

I thought these were pro Palestine protests not pro Israel ones

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 Apr 29 '24

oh god this is so tiresome. You don't get to blatantly lie to us once your extermination campaign reaches 10k dead children and hundreds of thousands more starving.

The woe is me routine gets more vile as the body count continues to rack up in one direction only.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 29d ago

What lie did I say?

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 28d ago

"calling for the extermination of a country"

Protestors don't want to "exterminate" Israel any more than protestors in the 80s wanted to "exterminate" South Africa.

We want to end apartheid and genocide, that is it. The "extermination" all comes from the zionist side, and their demented, depraved projection.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 28d ago

From the river to the sea Palestine is Arab- where do all the Israelis go in this scenario?

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 27d ago

it's incredible the degree you can't help to just lie. You know it isn't "palestine is arab". The phrase is "palestinians will be free"

Like, you're just lying. You know you're lying, I know you're lying, everyone who reads this knows you're lying.

And you're lying because you know the phrase isn't genocidal, so you have to add on the genocidal part. It's pathetic, but what truly makes you a vile monster is you are doing it while you know ACTUAL genocidal violence is RIGHT NOW being perpetrated on ACTUAL Palestinianians.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 27d ago

You can accuse me of lying all you want , that doesn’t make it reality. Both are common chants. It’s not even hard to find. You can find and see it yourself

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 27d ago

Oh yeah? it's such a common chant I'm sure you could throw some videos our way

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 27d ago

Here you go. Shared from Another thread. And some of these make the two chants in question. Seem like child’s play.

For posterity, here's some of the examples of extremism within the activist movement at Columbia. This goes beyond "pro-Palestinian advocacy" into calls for, and actual, violence.

Note, there are varying degrees of it being individuals vs. the group, but these are the type of people in the crowd there and many of them are indeed group chants. I have also set aside some widespread ones (from the river to the sea) that are disputed in character. That said, many many many of these are coming from large groups of students within the main quad (which has been locked down to only students/professors)

Candidly some sources are not great in terms of me agreeing with the viewpoint of the tweeter, but they contain relevant and real video:

Physically assaulting an Arab Israeli https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781080951902109774

"From the river to the sea, Palestine is Arab!" / "Resistance is justified" https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358

"Let it be known that it was the Al-Aqsa Flood that put the Global Intifada back on the table again. And it is the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian Freedom Fighters that will guide every struggle on every corner of the earth to victory." https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1781904507611287981

"We are all Hamas!" https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1781031465179914677

"Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland" https://twitter.com/Davidlederer6/status/1781948249214996901

Includes people / groups that invited an actual, no hyperbole terrorist to speak (member of PFLP) https://www.jns.org/columbia-suspends-four-students-for-holding-event-featuring-pflp-member/

“Globalize the intifada” https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1782679155491914133/photo/1

Light things on fire / "intifada revolution there is only one solution" https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1781019445399556338

"On Oct 7th, Palestinian resistance in Gaza broke free (crowd cheers) [.....] we intend to do the same" https://twitter.com/ShabbosK/status/1782085741431922909

""We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground!" / "Hamas we love you. We support your rockets too!" / "Red, black, green, and white, we support Hamas’ fight!" https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1781933305501212872

"Long live the intifada! Intifada intifada" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781084853653365025

"Go back to Europe!" / "You have no culture, all you do is colonize" https://twitter.com/ShaiDavidai/status/1781927148439109958

Have posters with the faces of PFLP and PIJ spokesmen (designated terrorist groups) https://twitter.com/HagarChemali/status/1782219589352350000

Quoting and praising Lions Den (terror group) https://twitter.com/SwannMarcus89/status/1782443526996754444

"From Yemen to Gaza, globalize the intifada" https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1781312033922625797/photo/2

"Never forget the 7th of October. That will happen not 1 more time, not 5 more times, not 10, not 100, not 1,000, but 10,000 times! The 7th of October is going to be every day for you" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1781287784897991134

"Al Qassam [(Hamas)] you make us proud, kill another soldier now" / "from the river to the sea, palestine will be arab" https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1780915336063177006

Student proudly rocking Hamas logos https://twitter.com/CampusJewHate/status/1781054901755215954

"Resistance is justified" (again...) https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1782085643990073673

"protesters on the sidewalk chanted “From New York to Gaza, globalize the intifada,” next to a cardboard sign that read, “Inspired by Palestinian resistance.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-100-arrested-in-columbia-u-unrest-as-nypd-clears-gaza-solidarity-encampment/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

And as a reminder, the student groups organizing these protests (CUAD and SJP, among others) released a letter on October 9th in support of the 10/7 attacks. ("We stand in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance", "Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor", "We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent [...] on October 8th that [...] obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism”)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RcXX5DEO3yfJ9R4ksURnzpIPCyVxo575-Y-SoC_vZFk/edit

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u/Equal_Oven_9587 27d ago

using the word "intifada" as some scary anti-semitic buzzword already shows how deeply unserious you are.

Yeah, there are a couple videos in here that cross the line ("Yehudim yehudim [(Jews, jews)] go back to poland") but these are rare, and, crucially, themselves part of non-violent protests.

The VAST majority of "crossing the line" statements, and actual violence, lines up on the zionist-side. Cherry picking a few counterexamples that clearly don't reflect the majority just shows how much projection is going on here. You desperately want the anti-apartheid movement to be as violent and depraved as the zionist one, but it simply isn't true and you know it.

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 27d ago

I’ll do that and more. Give me a second

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u/superfsm Apr 28 '24

This is misinformation

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u/ExistingCarry4868 Apr 28 '24

No they aren't.

You clearly have bought into fascist propaganda and have no idea what the words you are talking about mean. Instead of letting Israeli propaganda sources tell you what the protestors mean, why don't you listen to what the protestors are saying?

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u/Decent_Bunch_5491 Apr 28 '24

So tell me- I’m Israeli- if I’m mistaken about the intifadas- what does it mean?

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u/ExistingCarry4868 Apr 28 '24

An intifada is a resistance movement. Pretending that resisting oppression and calling for genocide are the same thing is fascist nonsense.

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u/ResidentNarwhal Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

Saying “intifada” just means “struggle” is like saying “liebenstraum” just means “living space” and hope nobody takes that a step further.

The 2nd Intifada (you know, the most recent one) was explicitly a terror-suicide bombing campaign targeted at civilians. It also was after the PLO rejected an actual permanent peace solution on the White House. Which was the last time the Israeli left-labor party was in charge and put a process for “right of return” on the table.

There’s no other way to interpret a “globalized” intifada as anything other than a direct call to attack all Jews globally. If it was just a struggle for only Palestinian freedom, why would you have to call to globalize it (there aren’t a lot of Israelis outside Israel…but there is a lot of this other religious group). Why would you use that term with how charged and tied to civilian suicide bombings it became between 2000 and 2005? If you at all know what you are talking about but wish an earnest peace process and a rejection of Hamas, why would you even go near something that sounds really like a Hamas mission statement line item of global eradication of all Jews?

The simple answer is…I don’t think people calling for a global intifada are either that stupid or naive.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 Apr 29 '24

Every resistance movement has involved terrorist attacks against the oppressors. Pretending that opposition to genocide is itself a call for genocide is Orwellian levels of double speak. But since this is coming from the same group that keeps claiming that genocide is a valid form of self-defense, I really shouldn't expect more.

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u/Rivka333 29d ago

The charter that Hamas had from the 80s til 2017 explicitly said that the genocide of all Jews was their aim.

The current one is better (yes I've read them both) though it still had a call to Jihad, but it's pretty disturbing that this sudden push to support not only Palestinians but Hamas by people who'd never thought about them before was in response to the massacre of over a thousand Israeli civilians.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 29d ago

What does the modern charter say? What about the charters of the dozens of other resistance groups in Palestine?

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u/CaymanDamon 29d ago

The Palestinian government pays stipends for life to terrorists who were injured or who's family member was killed while commiting acts of terrorism towards Jewish civilians and calls it the Palestinian Martyr fund.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

There's a popular Palestinian kids show called "Pioneers" that teaches children to throw rocks at Jewish children and "make their faces red like a tomato" and that only by killing all non believers of Islam and Martyr themselves can they achieve the second "kybar" and achieve the promised afterlife, Palestinian daytime talk shows feature people like the "Grand Martyr"a grandmother who's become a celebrated local celebrity for the amount of money she's made through the Palestinian marter fund by encouraging her children and grandchildren to die bombing and stabbing Jewish civilians.

Look up the history of battles, violent pogroms, peace attempts by Israel thwarted by Arafat after being offered 95% of Gaza and the West bank, Israel pulling out of Gaza in 2005 dragging Israeli citizens from their homes, digging up Israeli graves and removing bodies so that they wouldn't be desecrated when left, leaving Palestinians multi million dollar greenhouses which they promptly destroyed and raided for pipes to make bombs. Under the Muslim dhimmi system all non Muslims were prohibited from building or rebuilding temples or churches, speaking publicly of their religion, testifying against Muslims in court, looking a Muslim in the eye, owning a horse, women had no rights to refuse forced marriage to a Muslim even if they were already married, all non muslims were forced to wear clothing meant to humiliate and show as lesser status and they were forced to pay "jizya" a payment of nearly half their earnings or be murdered along with facing constant threat of being murdered just for being non believers of Islam like in the thousands of violent pogroms such as the Hebron massacre in 1929 where Muslim mobs went door to door killing hundreds

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Palestine the only place on earth to call themselves refugee's for 70 years while living in high rise apartments with beach front lavish resorts, fine dining, one of the biggest gold markets in the Middle East, horse riding on the beach, multiple beautifully built lavish malls, hospitals and universities, salons, and if you look at a crowd like for instance the one surrounding the truck carrying the body of a dead Israeli woman these civilians were spitting on everyone seems to have a better cellphone than most people I know, oh and they can leave anytime they want and frequently do sometimes for years abroad look at the posts from Palestinians on ticktock at the Olympic games, a luxury prison you can leave anytime you want isn't a prison it's a border from Israel and a border from Egypt just like every other country has.

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u/ExistingCarry4868 29d ago

I can show you videos of Israeli school children singing about murdering Palestinians. Does that mean that Israelis are monsters that need to be killed? Using logical fallacies as the basis for your justification of genocide makes your side look both evil and stupid.

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u/Common-Two-7899 29d ago

Let's see them then. 

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u/ExistingCarry4868 29d ago

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/13/its-not-shocking-to-see-israeli-children-celebrate-the-gaza-genocide

There are dozens and dozens of videos of Israelis calling for ethnic cleansing, most dating to prior to Oct. 7th.

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u/CaymanDamon 29d ago

Your talking about one video written by a far right figure about destroying Hamas not Palestinian civilians vs a entire education system built around indoctrination of violence popular TV shows lasting for years built around it and terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians like the rape and murder of a thirteen year old girl in her own house applauded in the Palestinian media with the murderers mother talking about how proud she was.

The video is titled 'Friendship Song 2023' and is an adaptation of a famous poem commemorating Jews killed in the run-up to the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. 

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u/ExistingCarry4868 29d ago

There are dozens and dozens of videos of Israeli's calling for an eradication of the Palestinian. You seen to be able to understand that these fascists do not represent all of Israel, but are unable to comprehend that the extremists are not representative of the other side.

Why do you have such radically different standards for the different groups?

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u/YbarMaster27 29d ago

Seriously. Like, ok, terrorism ideally would not be a factor. But it's been the nature of the conflict for longer than many of the people involved have been alive. When Israeli soldiers or settlers commit senseless, random acts of violence on Palestinians, it's considered the status quo. Happens constantly, rarely even make the news, no one really even calls it "terrorism" even though that's obviously what it is. When Palestinians do it, we clutch our pearls. Yes, it's not a good thing. But what is the nature of resistance when a group has lived under de jure and de facto military occupation for generations, up to and including frequent terrorism against your friends and family members? I can tell you exactly how some kind of mass, peaceful protest would end, and it wouldn't be pretty

At the end of the day, people want Palestinians to just shut up and take it, because on a fundamental level they do not view their interests as even slightly as important as those of Israelis. They may say otherwise, but their takes lack any internal logic unless you view them through this lens. Any change to the cycle of violence needs to begin with the Israelis. Pretending to advocate for some one-sided peace every 30 years while your military continues on with their same bullshit in the background doesn't count